And since people have been discussing my lack of a neck, here’s a recent selfie* I took:
I even have my own action figure!*
* This is actually Ted Cassidy, playing Bigfoot in place of Andre the Giant, in the two part episode of The Six Million Dollar Man entitled Bigfoot Returns.
Open Thread!
jl
That’s after a trip to groomers, right?
Edit: Tapper really irritates me tonight. He does the questions again, and he asks BS questions that have elaborate set-ups and premises and take forever. BSing about what the polls say today about electability is just a waste of time.
Mike in DC
I think most candidates are doing better this time. Harris had some rough patches, but the fact she got attacked helped reinforce her as top tier.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: Before my last haircut.
geg6
Booker won. They could end it now. Nothing will change. He was the guy who first caught my eye in the early ‘00s.
Adam L Silverman
jl: Actually before my last haircut, I texted my barber:
And followed it with that picture.
Her response:
I am not even close to that hairy. I do have a beard, and while it is a full beard, it is also properly groomed.
Baud
Good on Booker. Talking about voter suppression.
PsiFighter37
Unpopular opinion, perhaps – but I think this debate changes nothing about the current state of the race. In fact, until it’s down to less than 10 candidates on that stage, nothing will change. You can have ups and downs, but I guarantee that you’re going to see the same polling – Biden in front in the low-mid 30s, and Harris/Warren/Wilmer in the low-mid teens – until late fall. I honestly think a lot of it has to do with political fatigue – most people want someone who will not blast them with stupidity day in and day out like Donnie will, and they just can’t put their minds to it before then.
MazeDancer
CNN is accomplishing its goal of making people hate Dems.
All the fighting in quick cut segments is so painful, not sure I can take it anymore.
Way too early in the process to feel burnt out on debates already.
zhena gogolia
@PsiFighter37:
I think you’re probably right.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@geg6: he definitely has his moments, his speech at the 2016 convention was one of the best, but I’ve never been able to get the taste of that MTP appearance, when he declared all mean attacks on poor Mitt Romney made him sick! and his stance on the Iran deal has troubled me. But I’m team broken glass so….
Socraticsilence
Harris is really lucky no one else hit her on Criminal Justice issues the way Gabbard did, Biden tried but doesn’t seem as sharp as he used to be, but Harris is hugely vulnerable on this given her attacks on Biden- you can’t bash the 94 Crime Bill then laugh when asked about putting non violent weed offenders in jail.
FelonyGovt
I don’t think Harris has done badly. But I think Booker was the breakout tonight (just as I thought Buttigieg did really well last night).
misterpuff
Booker is totally targeting black women and peel them away from Biden. He stuck to that goal throughout the debate and CNN sure helped by pairing the two. Much more sparks between Booker and Biden then Biden and Harris.
Mary G
@Adam L Silverman: Do you shave your neck?
John S.
Booker was nowhere near the top of my list, but he totally killed it tonight. I would definitely like to see/hear more from him.
Baud
@MazeDancer:
This will be mostly irrelevant.
zhena gogolia
@misterpuff:
I don’t think CNN set the lineup.
Jeffro
You know who won tonight?
Warren.
Also Russia, via Gabbard
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: Yes, the beard stops at the jawline. I cannot stand more than one day’s growth on my neck. It annoys me no end.
PsiFighter37
@zhena gogolia: In fact, I’d argue that Iowa probably matters quite a bit more. If Biden wins Iowa, you’re done – this will be 2004 all over again, where the rest of the states fold in behind him. I would argue that the only ones who can make it an interesting race, rightly or wrongly, would be Booker or Harris. If they can shake the AA vote from Biden, they have a shot. If neither of them fail to gain momentum, though, black men and women will be the ones making Joe Biden the nominee.
More armchair punditry – take it for what you will. Yawn.
PF37 +2
geg6
I don’t disagree. Except I don’t think it’s fatigue for most. I think it’s that they aren’t paying much attention yet. I can tell you, I work in an office where there is only one Trumper among four departments housed in our suite. They have no idea that there were even debates this week, let alone last month. They are going with the known. For now. That can change.
ERS: This was supposed to be a reply to Psifighyer. Don’t know why that didn’t work.
Baud
@geg6:
. Agreed.
lamh36
I know there’s still some time left, but IMHO…the only folks who came out of this debate looking well, wer Castro. Gillibrand, Booker and Yang…in that order
Biden performance will satisfy his folks who wanted him to defend PBO and go at that backstabbing Kamala.
Kamala’s performance will make her hardcore supporters frustrated…and her soft supporters saying she’s lost it…and Kamala opponents happy that she wasn’t her best.
Out of all the candidates I want to see Castro get a bump from this debate, and maybe he will.
Otherwise nothing changes.
misterpuff
@zhena gogolia: They frame the questions and select the candidates to whom they wish “to mix it up”. Like last night they kept Delaney in the rotation to have him attack Berner and Warren.
Baud
@lamh36:
Castro was good in the first debate too, but he didn’t get much of a bump.
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: I would switch Booker and Castro.
Jeffro
@geg6: After 2016 never say never, but…Cory Booker is never going to be President of the United States.
And I say this as someone who’s thinking Castro might be a great candidate for us next year. I guess we’ll see.
FelonyGovt
@Omnes Omnibus: I think Booker is a lot more charismatic than Castro. That shouldn’t matter, but of course it does.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I hate Ron Fournier’s guts and liver, but (if true) he’s got a point here (posted last night, reposted tonight)
One of Obama’s bigwigs– Mitch Stewart?– said saving Detroit saved Obama in 2012 (MI and OH). But according to twitter, a few people got their licks in on Obama (twitter had a much stronger reaction to that than the folks here)
lamh36
Also… Tulsi the “Russian stooge” going for the “Kamala is a cop” hit. Biden doesn’t have to worrry bout it and I’m sure didn’t ask for it, but someone should be really suspcious that Tulsi Gubbard all of a sudden turn into lowkey Biden defense artist?
Tulsi is earning her Russian stooge dollars tonight for sure.
BTW, nothing Tulsi said was remotely true…but hey…what does the truth matter to a Russian stooge. Marianne Williamson may be cray, but I genuinely think she believes what she spouts. Tulsi I don’t trust AT ALL…she has an an agenda…and her quick turn to a hard on for Kamala Harris above any other is a tell to me…
something really needs to be done about not letting Tulsi in these debates…smh…she spread lies and does nothing to help the debate. heck at the very least Marrianne Williamson with her kookiness wasn’t spreading the degree of outright lies that Tulsi is and no one’s really able to call her out on them.
Oh and here we got Tulsi lying about TPP…did Biden at least check her on the lies?
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: I found a clip of you and Steve.
Also Archer is on, so later!
BR
@lamh36:
She’s going for 3% in the polls so she can make it to the next debate. Probably willing to say whatever it takes to get there.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: I’m recording Archer. I’m a week behind.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That is surprising if true.
PsiFighter37
@lamh36: Biden is not going to bother engaging someone who is barely registering in the polls and will likely be dropped from the next debate.
Everything she does should be viewed with suspicion, what with being part of a weird-ass cult and all.
Mandalay
Gillibrand asked directly what should be done about companies not giving women equal pay and she ducked the question! WTF?
B.B.A.
Get it right, people – Tulsi is a Syrian stooge.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: It is season finale, right?
Mary G
This interminable debate needs to be over.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They addressed it last night. I don’t remember which one- Ryan or someone. But one of them addressed it.
Baud
Nothing on foreign policy at all. They asked it last night, no?
zhena gogolia
I have to just calm down and think about the fact that somebody is going to end up being the nominee, and then all our energy has to get behind that person.
As long as they’re a Democrat.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I think so. They did announce at ComicCon that there would be another season next year. So this turned out to not be the last season.
Baud
@Kay:
Ugh. I hate Ryan.
PsiFighter37
So after this debate, you have Biden, Harris, Warren, Wilmer, Mayor Lightweight, Booker, and Beto guaranteed at the next debate. I’m hoping if there ends up being 10 people on stage, they are serious ones and not pure vanity runs (Hickenlooper), people shirking their actual job (de Blasio), or people, however well-intentioned, who have no business being on the stage (Yang, Williamson, and Steyer).
Anyone know what the next threshold is following the debate(s) in September? I hope it’s raised to 5% at least, so that the wheat gets culled from the chaff faster.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
Was that the part where he got a pit in his stomach?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: it would be in his wheelhouse– would be/have been a good way for anyone to hit trump and appeal to labor
Puddinhead
Ted Cassidy played bigfoot in place of Andre the Giant.
opiejeanne
@lamh36: Thank you. amen. I’m beyond annoyed by the half-truths that came out of Tulsi’s mouth to attack Kamala.
geg6
@Mandalay:
But…but…but..,she’s the most feminist of all feminists! No one champions women more than her! She promised!
Kay
@lamh36:
I really can;t stand her. I get such a bad feeling about it. It amazes me other people don’t feel it. There’s some kind of malice there- she’s on some mission. I just think she’s a person to avoid. She gives me the creeps with her expressionless face.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: I also watch this on Wednesday’s. It’s hilarious:
John S.
@PsiFighter37:
I pretty much agree with your list. I think Yang is smart and has some good ideas, but he’s just completely out of place.
opiejeanne
Jay Inslee, the reason the teachers got that raise is that my district elected a democrat for state senator, a woman named Manka Dhingra. She was the tipping point in the state senate to get many bipartisan bills passed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: when I’m tempted to prognosticate, I remind myself that in this point at ’07 I (and a few others) were predicting it would either be Clinton or Edwards for us, because no way were Dems gonna nominate the black guy with the light resume and the funny name, and (IIRC) McCain was broke and struggling in the polls on their side
jl
@Baud: Is it just me, or does it seems like fewer policy questions tonight and more ‘let’s you folks fight’ and ‘attack X’s record’ questions tonight. Or maybe the candidates on the stage less willing to look past them and talk about policy.
OK finally foreign policy. And Tapper asks another stupid question. Why a year? Did Booker make a one year pledge?
hilts
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
You know what they say, even a broken clock gives the correct time twice a day.
Baud
Did you guys know that Tulsi served?
Baud
@jl:
No, opposite. More policy.
PsiFighter37
@Kay: She’s a goddamn cult member and is brainwashed. I think it was NY Magazine or the New Yorker that did a really good profile on her.
Honestly, if the people of Hawaii would do something other than (usually) vote mindlessly for the Democratic incumbent in the primary, she would get booted in a hot second.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
It had to be early because the moderators were driving me fucking crazy so I turned it off. I think it was in an opening statement. Last night. Not tonight.
Quinerly
@Baud: wow! I’m just learning that. She is so modest. Never talks about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Umm, wow.
Adam L Silverman
@Puddinhead: You are correct. I do not know why I entered Davis instead. I have fixed it.
PsiFighter37
@John S.: To be fair, the list is based purely on the qualifications the DNC set, so those 7 will definitely make it. Methinks Beto is going to flame out shortly and call it quits. His legendary stamina may work on a statewide level but does not translate nationally, based on what I see on my Instagram feed.
geg6
@Kay:
When you understand that she was brought up in a cult, you totally get it. Doesn’t make her any less creepy to know that, though.
Chip Daniels
@PsiFighter37:
Thats kinda where I’m at.
Right now with 20 names, no one is really locking down any votes.
PsiFighter37
@geg6: After reading aforementioned profile, I think it’s still quite clear she’s affiliated with said cult, if not openly.
BR
@John S.:
I think Yang has already cleared the threshold for the next debate. I’m fine with him being around. It’s a subtle reminder of the real diversity (in every way) of the coalition, and from what I can tell he’s not a plant or a grifter like some of the other also rans. He’s proud of having worked in Obama’s innovation corps (or whatever it was called) and has some interesting (if unusual) ideas that should be heard out.
I’m waiting for someone to combine Yang’s basic income pitch with a carbon fee and dividend, because that’s a way to make people more comfortable with a price on carbon.
Mandalay
@geg6: TBF, I wrote that as it happened, and Gillibrand wanted to use her time instead to go after Biden. That’s fair enough as a debate tactic I suppose, but what a question for her to choose to skip.
Baud
Wow, did you guys know that Tulsi enlisted after 9/11?
geg6
@PsiFighter37:
Oh, no doubt. Sorry I wasn’t clear about that.
jl
Tapper asks a foreign policy question on Iran based on a false premise. The US withdrew from the agreement first. We got no grounds to do shit if Iran decides to break it. Good on Buttigeig for correcting Tapper.
So, is Tapper so incompetent he doesn’t know, or mindlessly follow all CW crap he hears from the pundits, or a dishonest jackass?
Then Tapper puts words in a candidates mouth. I am very techy about that kind of thing when directed to me, and I would have told Tapper to cut the crap “Hey, Tapper, I didn’t say that, cut the crap!’ You can say that at
The ‘rules’ can go to hell. The CNN and producers and celeb news nitwits have arranged a lousy and corrupt debate.
zhena gogolia
@jl:
Wait, Buttigieg showed up tonight?
B.B.A.
I’m watching Match Game instead of the debate. I think this would make a better format than whatever the hell CNN is doing.
Dumb Donald is so dumb…
lamh36
@Kay: she really was almost gleeful when she went on her lying hits on Kamala.
It’s truet that maybe this was Kamala’s thinking and why she wasn’t bothering checking Tulsi
but man…Literally barely NOTHING Tulsi said was true…and all it does is spread disinformation…smh
Dems gotta do something so that she doesn’t make the cut for any more debtes…smh
satby
This guy shows why he should have gotten the DNC job right here:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1156708871576141824?s=20
Proud of my mayor!
Kay
@PsiFighter37:
My sense of her is she has a hugely inflated sense of her own importance – that she is on a mission and she’s the center of the mission. Like a savior. I mean this- I think she’s really someone to avoid. I know the low tier candidates have to attack the more popular candidates, that’s the tactic, so it isn’t her negativity. I think this behavior where she seems to have contempt for others is natural to her- that she doesn’t know how to behave any other way. She thinks she is somehow singular- uniquely chosen.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: It is actually really interesting. They basically recreate either actually historically documented feats of strength or mythological feats of strength. Or they try to – they’re not always successful. So the history and mythology is interesting in and of itself. They are also hysterical in playing off of each other. The smallest of the four is Nick Best, who has the shaved head and the blonde goatee. He is also the oldest – he’s 50. Best is about 6’2, 320 lbs. The biggest is Brian Shaw, who has the shaved head and the dark beard. Shaw is 6’8, 440 lbs. He’s also one the World’s Strongest Man competition 4 times, though all are, if I understand correctly, past World’s Strongest Man champions.
geg6
@Mandalay:
As the feminist icon she claims to be, she should have addressed it, even if in passing in to what she wanted to talk about. That won’t fly against Trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: I think jl got into the post-debate absinthe a little early.
zhena gogolia
@B.B.A.:
Or do Hollywood Squares and put Paul Lynde in the middle.
lamh36
Jennifer Rubin is def right here…
jl
@zhena gogolia: Oopa. Sorry and thanks. I was typing when the question was asked. Who got that question? Sounded a little like Buttigeig and I had a brain fart.
I think last night’s debate was OK, this one mostly miserable. So I was probably reminiscing about the good old days.
opiejeanne
@geg6: What Cult was Tulsi raised in? This is news to me.
Martin
@PsiFighter37: This debate’s sole purpose is to make it to the next debate. Those that are already in are mostly trying to keep their heads down, and those that are not are desperately trying to get enough attention to win a poll or get more donations. Nothing of substance will really develop until the fear of making the next debate comes off.
hilts
@jl:
For the networks airing these debates it’s all about entertainment and not informing the electorate, The asshole cable news execs want a fucking food fight, They don’t view these debates as a public service.
Instead of opening the debate by playing the national anthem, CNN should have played That’s Entertainment or There’s No Business Like Show Business. That would be more honest than pretending that this telecast is some kind of civics lesson.
opiejeanne
Moscow Mitch! Castro brought it.
John S.
@PsiFighter37:
Beto is unimpressive. It would be at least be a manageable debate with Wilmer, Warren, Harris, Booker and Biden. It will very likely come down to that at some point.
@BR:
And we can throw Yang in to mix it up a bit. :-)
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Yeah, those are people who could accidentally sit on me and crush me and not even notice.
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
Have they done the Augean Stable? Maybe they could do the Oval Office next.
Quinerly
Is this thing ever going to end?
Kay
@lamh36:
I object to the whole idea that being a former prosecutor is unacceptable. I think that’s nuts. Also, frankly, to me, Tulsi doesn’t have enough nuts and bolts governing experience to attack an AG from a huge state like California – it’s complicated. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about.
Catatonia
“Moscow Mitch” FTW. Castro with the zinger of the night
Steve in the ATL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I saw a car with a McCain/Palin stickler this evening driving through Atalanta. Older, but not old, white guy in Detroit rust bucket.
geg6
@lamh36:
Bad prep on her and her team’s part. Saw Tweety interviewing one of her spokesmen earlier today. Poor guy wasn’t ready for prime time, let alone the vortex of insanity that is dealing with Tweety.
Baud
@Quinerly:
I think they are doing closings and then it’s over.
L85NJGT
@Kay:
GM Lordstown was in Ryan’s district.
Warren MI Transmission closed this week with Baltimore going down earlier this year. Detroit-Hamtramck is closing end of year.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
Yang? I didn’t know he was a Syrian puppet too.
Jeffro
@PsiFighter37: Watch, it’ll still be the top six plus another six deemed ‘entertaining’ in some fashion.
They need to remember that good villains are entertaining, but Bill de Blasio is just a jackass.
Quinerly
@Baud: Poco sez, “Please make it end. I promise to be good. Just make it stop.”
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: The Science Identity Foundation, which is an offshoot of ISKCON/The International Society for Krishna Consciousness (the Hare Krishnas), which at its leadership levels is an organized crime organization.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tulsi-gabbard-krishna-cult-rumors_n_6879588
Omnes Omnibus
DiBlasio, don’t say citizen vs immigrants. Many immigrants are citizens. Dumbass.
Gravenstone
@Adam L Silverman: I remember meeting a notably hirsute customer.at a college summer job. Obviously had to shave his neck and it was highly disconcerting to see the ruff of fur sticking out from his collar below that trim line. Never saw anything like it, until the Geico caveman character.- 20 years later.
rikyrah
@Kay:
This isn’t a purple seat. This is a blue district. We can do better than her ??
Jeffro
@John S.: You forgot Castro.
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: Not yet, as far as I know.
Mandalay
Harris badly needs a coach to improve her presentation skills. She keeps tilting her head at 45 degrees, and wobbles it around. She’s also pulling her hair off her face, her arms are all over the place and she sometimes sounds too emotional. (TBF, she obviously loathes Biden, but she shouldn’t make it so obvious.)
She could do a lot worse than copying Booker’s demeanor. He’s cool and relaxed but authoritative, and is owning the debate like a boss.
rikyrah
@BR:
How has Yang cleared the threshold???
geg6
@opiejeanne:
Here you go:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2019/1/16/18182114/tulsi-gabbard-2020-president-campaign-policies
Adam L Silverman
What an ass!
Kay
@L85NJGT:
Right, I know. But one of them specifically mentioned the Michigan plant that is closing. It was either Ryan or the shouty former House member. What’s his name. Ryan talks about Trump’s broken promises in Ohio right now. I saw him with a bunch of other Ohio pols a year ago and he attacked Trump the whole speech. He’s really pretty useful in that way.
zhena gogolia
@Mandalay:
Maybe you should mansplain that to her directly.
Adam L Silverman
@Adam L Silverman: And here’s the chaser:
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: This is disgusting
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
Trump is an ass but it does seem weird to give an award after losing a case.
lamh36
@zhena gogolia: I believe she was talking about Yang being inexperienced in foreign policy and Tulsi being Assad’s puppet
L85NJGT
@Kay:
AG of California is executive of a massive bureaucracy. It’s not like she was in court daily trying possession cases.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandalay: You might be projecting your feelings onto Harris.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
Oh, okay.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: All announced/tweeted on Twitter, just like any responsible, thoughtful, and/or classy president* of these here United States would do. All based on the facts and making a judgment only after thoughtful deliberation. Plus careful consideration of the message this sends both within the services and to the public, and the world, at large.
Yeeee-up
Baud
No one did the Spanish in this set of debates.
Kay
@rikyrah:
Oh, God yes. Find someone who isn’t EVIL. They all know it too- they avoid her like the plague and it isn’t because she’s mavericky and unconventional. They know :)
Adam L Silverman
@Gravenstone: I don’t have a ruff of fur below the neckline. Fortunately. The Bigfoot/sasquatch jokes are just those, jokes.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Adios! Drink!
Baud
@Baud:
Castro comes with the adios.
Yang owns the lack of tie.
lamh36
JIC folks forgot this from Feb
Mandalay
@zhena gogolia:
Heh…Ms. Mandalay originally pointed it out to me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: which…. which night was Beto on?
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman: @Cheryl Rofer: I have to admit, I’m surprised that both the Intelligence and Defense communities haven’t lended a stronger hand in getting this guy out-Out-OUT by now.
But then again, it’s already out there that he was part of a multigenerational tax fraud, is lining his own pockets on a daily basis with trips to his own businesses, and is a national security risk in his own right. Everyone’s waiting for the cavalry, I guess…
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: I’m honestly not sure they can actually be rescinded in this manner.
Baud
Good closing by Booker.
Kay
@L85NJGT:
Right, but Tulsi, Goddess of Whatever In Her Own Mind, wouldn’t know that so maybe she should not attack on it. Maybe she could read up on the job. Or she could ask Harris, before one of these debates!
I don’t trust voters anymore. How do I know? They could go insane again. I feel like literally anyone could end up President now.
BR
Booker really nailed his closing. Yang wasn’t bad either, though a bit student body president styled.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: A lot of Sturm und Drang over NAMs. That being said, why the fuck is a president getting involved in this and why the fuck is the Navy acquiescing?
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: I already to told you he fucking won.
lamh36
@Omnes Omnibus: @zhena gogolia:
smh…thank you both for saying it cause I’m too tired to go auwf like I was going to…
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Already measuring the curtains.
Jay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
It’s hard to swing at GM for Dolt45 policies, and consumer trends, that they are simply following.
BR
Weak closings from Harris and Biden — they were the front runners tonight but didn’t strike me as strong as Warren and Sanders were last night (both of whom were comfortable in what they were saying).
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman: I was going to ask about that, but got distracted by your hairy neck
Adam L Silverman
@Jeffro: Because that isn’t what either the Defense and/or Intelligence communities do. Despite what the President and his delusional/conned supporters believe or have been led to believe. This is the thing that drives me nuts when I see smart, well informed commentators, like Sarah Kendzior, freaking out that no one in the counter-intelligence world is doing something to stop him or remove him. They are doing something: they’re running an ongoing counterintelligence investigation. The purpose of them is not necessarily to bring prosecutions or even to bring what they’re doing out into the light of day. It is to work very quietly and very thoroughly to fully identify, delineate, and define the counterintelligence threat, to wall it off, and then to counter it through a variety of covert means.
mad citizen
@lamh36: I was just roaming aroung YouTube on my TV (I did not watch the debate–no cable) and the ONLY debate clip from tonight was from the Tulsi campaign site, “taking down Kamala” or something like that–it had been up for 21 minutes at the point I watched it. It had a Gabbard punch, Kamala counterpunch, and Gabbard again.
If this woman is a Russian stooge, the other candidates or the party need to get that out there.
BR
@Omnes Omnibus:
There was a moment there where I felt the Obama spark in him, which I’ve only so far seen in Warren (just a tiny bit). Booker has been underwhelming so far this year but in the past he has shown he knows how to inspire and lead, and maybe he’s starting to show it.
Gravenstone
@Adam L Silverman: That reads like someone translating a Trump tantrum. Still a bullshit move.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: There is an ethos in Intelligence and Defense that they don’t do politics. I suspect that many fists are smashed into walls, many heads are beat on desks, and many bad words are said. But they will not intervene, and that is, for the long run, a good thing.
There have been leaks, I suspect from folks in those communities, but not a lot. I’m not sure how long this lasts.
@Adam L Silverman: That was kinda what I thought. Seems to me that there would be a procedure, probably taking a long time, with evidence of unfitness and such.
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s a short road from not prosecuting War Crimes,
To punishing those who try to prosecute war crimes.
BTW, loved your Vietnam Vet mini-essay in the previous thread.
Someday you should write on how American Military mythology really mucks up American Foreign Policy and effective deployments.
Quinerly
Here’s that op ed Gillibrand was talking about:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/heres-the-1981-biden-op-ed-that-gillibrand-brought-up-in-the-debate
L85NJGT
@Kay:
Dwayne Johnson will be the next GOP president.
BR
@mad citizen:
Someone really really needs to start putting up legit Dem videos on youtube. Even just clips of videos of the normal candidates. Most of the stuff on youtube right now is troll garbage like that, but that’s what shows up now when people search for videos.
I mean, a really simple thing is just to put up unedited videos of the top 8 candidates on a a few youtube channels and just do it day after day. Could hire some College Democrats around the country to keep the videos flowing, I don’t know…
Kraux Pas
@PsiFighter37:
Well they certainly changed or informed my vision about many pf the candidates. Also, it’s allowing them to bounce ideas off each other which they may adopt or test what responses work.
I’m learning about several of these people almost from scratch. So are many other people. Sure, most of the contenders have little chance. They still contribute. Few people are paying attention yet anyway. We can have mpre focused debates later.
My one wish is that the candidates would focus on where they agree more.
Jeffro
@Omnes Omnibus:
This president*, and you have to wonder why he’s getting involved?
Let me phrase it in the form of a different question or two: what signals is trumpov sending here, both by getting the serviceman in question out of confinement and now by punishing his prosecutors? What message is he trying to send?
Kay
@BR:
I like Yang. I don’t think he should be president, but he isn’t an asshole. Maybe he wants to be DNC chair. Probably not, huh?
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: The President is engaging in his normal grievance politics. This is solely intended for the group of Fox watching, talk radio listening, extreme and alt-right social and digital media using people that make up a lot of his base to keep them angry and convinced that they, and their heroes, are the true victims of political correctness run amok. And that he, and only he, can ensure that they are treated fairly. And anyone who doesn’t will get the or else. In this case the prosecutors. As far as the SecNav is concerned, he is an appointee of the President and, I’m guessing, he’d like to keep his job. So he can do the right thing or he can do what he is doing. Doing what he is doing is going to help him keep his job.
Alain
Am I the only one who gave to Kai Kahele’s primary campaign against Tulsi when she went nasty?
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
@Cheryl Rofer:
Tough to do that effective walling off thing now that the phone calls are coming from inside the White Supremacy House,
and the amplification is coming from 4chan/8chan, elected ReThugs and members of the Grand Old Pedo’s party.
Adam L Silverman
@Gravenstone: Most likely Scavino putting out a dictated/directed tweet given the time it was tweeted out.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: Yep, it is a major problem.
And thanks for the kind words. I’ll try to keep the topic in mind for a quiet day. If we ever get another quiet day…
Mandalay
@zhena gogolia: I just showed Ms. Mandalay your drivel. She says you’re a dodo, which is cranking it up to 11 for her.
Jay
@BR:
Youtube algorythms amplify radicalization, they are designed that way.
Yarrow
@Kay: Tulsi has a primary challenger and he looks like a good candidate. Kai Kahele, currently a state senator in Hawaii. You can donate to his campaign via his website.
BR
@Kay:
I think he’d be great to have in the administration. I am biased so I am in my mind putting together a dream team for Warren, and I could see Yang as part of that. No idea what role he’d play; his natural fit would be the CTO position Obama created, but I think he wants to play a role in economics in a way that the CTO doesn’t.
Kay
It’s funny because I thought Biden did fine. I think he’s running on “Donald Trump is unacceptable” and that might be enough. Most people don’t pay attention to policy and he has, you know, the standard D litany.
I guess that’s not very inspiring “I am enough, for now, with this mess you’re in” but you have to almost admire such a simple message.
Cheryl Rofer
On the debate:
Brachiator
I couldn’t watch the debate live, but may try to catch up with it later. Ted Cassidy was much more interesting than his dumb giant roles. He was academically and athletically gifted. He died too young at age 46 due to some post surgery complications.
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer:
I’m not sure either but (obviously) we are beyond – far beyond – normal parameters and ingrained restrictions here, and have been for quite some time. I hear you, but there won’t be a ‘long run’ if this goes on much longer. 15 more months of this clown in office (with all its powers, and nothing but sycophants around), much less wreaking post-election-loss havoc on our society)…it’s beyond chilling.
HRA
No one won and no one lost yesterday and today. My choice will be whoever wins the primary election.
I also have to make clear that this is the very first time I have no preferred candidate for any election and I know I am not the only one.
lamh36
Final thoughts:
Good: Castro, Booker, Yang, even Gillibrand did well.
Bad: Tulsi and her lies, CNN and their stupid format, the pettiness during the healthcare debate…
As a Harris supporter, I’m not 100% happy with her performance, but I’m also not thinking she was as bad as seemed to think. There were no “hits” like in the first debate w/Biden. Biden did fine and his hardcore supporters will love his performance the media to I guess. But the exchanges between Biden and Harris was not a great look for either candidate IMHO. And I sincerely hope Biden camp dind’t start that Kamala is a cop stuff cause they knew Tulsi would take it and run with it. I’d like to think they are better than that.
I don’t see any change in the race any direct hits from tonight.
Finall, final thoughts…CNN and Tulsi….ya’ll ain’t…..shhhhh
Kay
@BR:
My son and his friends like him- they’re 16,17,18. I think Yang’s fans are YOUNG, which is nice. I’m just relieved they like what seems to be a decent person. President aside. I don’t want them to admire horrible people.
Adam L Silverman
It’s over. Thank Cthulhu!
Jay
@BR:
The funny thing is, if you read and really think about it, ( eg. the Green New Deal), it’s all interconnected.
So as CTO he would have a major impact on economic policy.
Sadly, for far too long we have had policy makers who think that “there’s this one neat trick”, who either don’t know enough about the subject to know that there will be ripple effects and unintended consequences if it’s not done “right”, or don’t care.
mad citizen
@BR: YES to this idea. I do a lot of watching of YouTube videos on my TV–mostly entertainment stuff, but some politics.
By the way, I just searched “tulsi gabbard russian stooge” on google for the period “last week”, and this thread came up 7th in the search results. Score a win for this top 10,000 blog!
BR
@Kay:
Some of the college students I taught like him as well, and even the politically disengaged ones knew him by name 6 months ago. I was shocked.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jeffro: Do you really think that having the military and intelligence folk making decisions about who should run the country is a good idea?
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: I don’t know how long it lasts, and I don’t want to find out. We’ve got to remove the Orange Plague.
Yarrow
I was unable to watch the debate tonight although I did see about two minutes of Booker and Biden yelling at each other over the crime bill or something like that.
All I can say is this election will be a referendum on Trump. Whoever is best to take him out should be our candidate.
@Kay:
That may be enough. Biden is smart to run on it.
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s not about who should be running the country,
It’s about who should not be running the country.
Bobby Thomson
@Kay:
Yeah, that really sets him apart. /s
Steve in the ATL
Tomorrow night, the Falcons play the Broncos in the first NFL preseason game of the season. That game and these early debates have much in common, including the fact that I will watch neither and will care about the outcome of neither.
Jay
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: @Omnes Omnibus is 100% right. The IC and military are incredibly conservative. The LAST thing we need, is them deciding to install Presidents. Sheeite, that’d be the end pretty damn quick.
JR
@PsiFighter37: not unpopular with me. These debates are meaningless.
mad citizen
6 months is a long time for someone of Biden’s age–we’ll see how he is looking in January. I just think he is too old, too gray, yet also too face-lifty for a major party to put out there as its nominee. Whenever I see him, I think I’m looking at a vintage photograph.
This also goes for Wilmer, who isn’t a member of the party…
Yarrow
@Kay: Yang has some sort of involvement with 4chan. I can’t remember what now. 4chan is all in for him, which leaves me rather skeptical.
Ohio Mom
@mad citizen: We don’t have a TV anymore, let alone cable. Watched it on the laptop on the CNN site.
Brachiator
Previous candidates and the national political parties hated this format and the intelligent supervision of the League.
Adam L Silverman
@Jay: @Cheryl Rofer: @Omnes Omnibus: @Jeffro: @Steve in the ATL: I have a friend who is a retired Army Staff Judge Advocate who, among other things, successfully prosecuted a Soldier for committing war crimes. I emailed the tweets to him, including the one that SecNav is going to rescind the awards. This was his response:
My boss, who is a former SEAL, responded with:
Eolirin
@Chetan Murthy: How about them deciding to take out an asset of a hostile foreign power?
The situation we’re in isn’t normal. It isn’t remotely close to normal. It is conceivable that an intelligence coup could end up being the least bad option if things even more rapidly accelerate toward shit.
Omnes Omnibus
I am just spitballing here, so work with me. If Climate Change causes us to invade Canada and annex some land, would Jennifer Granholm retroactively become a natural born citizen so that Drunk Jennifer Granholm could run for president?
BR
@Yarrow:
They meme-ified him and for some reason backed him as a chaos candidate. I think he was a bit baffled by it and I remember him repudiating it, and now there’s less of that stuff. I think they’ve largely realized that he believes in most of the progressive values the other Dems believe in and so they’re backing other chaos candidates, but I don’t really know.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
It’s not about them installing Presidents, it’s about them sucking up their “top secret” fetish’s and putting some information out there.
We have an election here in October. I am getting my news of digital ratfucking, robocalls, and cyberwarfare from digital social media nerds, and anti-facists, almost real time.
I am sure that CSIS will publish a report, and declassify it, on the digital ratfucking of the 2019 Federal Election, by enemies foreign and domestic, some time in 2069, highly redacted.
Chetan Murthy
@Eolirin: I look around the world, and I look at history. And every time the military has deposed governments for good reasons, eventually they end up doing it for bad reasons. Maybe you’re saying that the American people are incapable of rescuing ourselves. Maybe that’s true. But if it’s true, then we’re -done-, and no military intervention will help us.
And again: I return again to this simple fact, that the military and IC are very, very, very conservative. There’ll be a price for their intervention, and it won’t be a pleasant one. Because they’re not going to sit still for all this leftward movement, nosirree.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
This would be like saying, “Our democracy is fucked, so let’s have even less democracy.”
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks. I know quite a bit about the Hare Krishnas and I remember them in the airports. I didn’t realize she was part of that whole mess.
Jay
@Yarrow:
4chan is anti circumsision, ( talk about Incels/MRAs/PUS/Woo intersect) but more importantly, thinks trashing an election for the LUTZ is “cool”.
8chan is more Tulsi and The Woo Lady.
Steve in the ATL
@Adam L Silverman:
Yeah, that perfectly sums up the trump administration.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: I fully support this plan
Socraticsilence
@lamh36:
I mean to be fair Harris’s attacks on Biden were similarly stacked– its the way political attacks go.
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
You know we are warming faster than you are, right?
What are you gonna do, exile people from New York State there to die to make room tor all the Floriduh! refugees?
Keith P.
I remembered who Andre the Giant was – he was a giant, and he went by the name of…Andre.
ruemara
Since it’s open thread, I will be in Cambridge for the Podtales convention on October 20th. Which is also my birthday eve. Any Juicers in that area? Meetup? I’m arriving on the 18th so I can see some sights on the 19th. Exciting, because I’ve never been to Boston before. Maybe I should travel to Washington DC since I’ve never been there either? IDK.
Kay
@BR:
Ha! Me too. Surprised they were following it enough to know him. They could admire worse people.
Eolirin
@Chetan Murthy: I’m saying it’s a razors edge thing. And that Trump has access to tools that we can’t fight back against too if he can manage to use them; if Barr is willing to willing to arrest the eventual democratic nominee on clearly ridiculous charges on the eve of election because things are looking bad for Trump what do we do? If he seems poised to start dropping nukes on Iran? If they decide to go final solution on the ICE camps? There are a ton of ways things can go that we can’t do anything about that would fundamentally break us if allowed to happen. I’d be more willing to take my chances on a rogue IC than a certain autocracy or war crimes on a scale that we haven’t seen since the Nazis.
It’s obviously much much better if it doesn’t come to that. A rogue IC is definitely not a good thing. But I’d hope if it did, that they’d do something, because there are worse things, and they feel terrifyingly possible right now.
Socraticsilence
@satby:
People laughed when I supported that in 2017, Buttigieg whose hometown is in Iowa or Delaware, etc is a Senator and the clear frontrunner as is the inexperience thing is a worry for people even if it’s kind of unfair
L85NJGT
@mad citizen:
Actuarial table for 76 yo male: 4% chance of dying in a year, 22% in five.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
interesting take from an Obama speechwriter
I really wish Warren hadn’t gone all in on BernieCare, but it seems to me she’s just gotten stronger and stronger as a retail candidate.
guachi
@Adam L Silverman: It’s only a NAM! I mean, people get NAMs for spending a week helping out with the Navy Day Ball.
The write up for their awards was more than sufficient to warrant receiving a NAM.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne:
https://www.amazon.com/Monkey-Stick-Murder-Madness-Krishnas/dp/0151620865/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19VNP3ZRVDJAL&keywords=monkey+on+a+stick+murder%2C+madness%2C+and+the+hare+krishnas&qid=1564630715&s=gateway&sprefix=monkey+on+a+stick%2Caps%2C186&sr=8-1
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mad citizen: I hate Wilmer, but TBH I think he looks more energetic and agile (rhetorically) than Biden, and I dismissed concerns about Biden’s age for a long time.
Kay
@Yarrow:
Well, they know about this and they deny it. They say he didn’t solicit their attention and it’s not his fault. They seem to just like him and I sort of get it. I watched one of the you tube video interviews they all watch- they watch a lot of interview format type shows on youtube- not just on politics, on music and movies and cars and other things- and it was a good interview. Yang is smart and engaging. He’s a good teacher.
Steve in the ATL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think she’d be a great president, but I think she would struggle to get elected. Too many people hate her, like Hillary. Harris brings the same good stuff to the table without the baggage.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
It’s not a case of the US MIC/IC “deposing” a President and his crony’s.
It’s about putting confirmable information “out there”.
Instead, they are classifying and hiding stuff so that in 2021, when Putin gives Dear Leader direct orderz via Tor encrypted Telegram, they can preserve the Wannasee Confrence 2.0 for posterity, released a 100 years later for Historians, ( if there are any) to argue about.
Do you wanna know who gave Calgary Cruz and Cassidy their “marching orders” on the anti-anti-fascist HR that criminalizes all left wing dissent?
The Nazi Proud Boys.
Got that from Always Antifia and The Hacker Collective connecting dots, emails and Discord communications.
Not the US IC.
Adam L Silverman
@guachi: I know that, you know that, the President has no idea about any of it. He just knows he can use it to stoke his supporters grievances.
Socraticsilence
@L85NJGT:
I’m only okay with it because it’s not all that dissimilar to blaming Biden for the consequences of the 94 Crime Bill.
And also because frankly it’s always seemed like bullshit the degree to which we deify Prosecutors but virtually never hild them responsible for abuses, it’s a close cousin to the over deference to cops so many have
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I agree, and she’s just hung a millstone around her own neck, and those of purple state senate candidates
Do you get a sense the media hates her like they did HRC? I have a not-fully-formed theory that the Maureen Dowd/Chris Matthews types could never forgive themselves, or Bubba, for liking Bubba more than they thought they should, so they hated Hillary to compensate.
Eolirin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “Don’t you think he look tired?”
Chetan Murthy
@Jay:
And again, I’ll note that for the IC to do this, would require that they have decided to make war on the sitting President. At which point
(a) what prevents that President from just firing them all and replacing them with folks who would do the same to us? To his opposition?
(b) and more importantly, once they (the heads of the IC) get a taste for doing this to an (agreed) really bad President, what’s to stop them from doing it to one we think is a good President?
I mean, there’s a parable about this, isn’t there? About breaking every law, every rule, to hunt the Devil, and when he confronts you, and you’ve got nothing, not the law, not anything to defend yourself, b/c you tossed it all in your mad haste to hunt him down. Isn’t that a well-known parable?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Huh, just saw my first trump/pence 2020 ad. On MSNBC. “They’re all socialists. They’re all the same.” Paid for by… I’m a fat corrupt racist who lusts after his own daughter, and I approved this message.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
British TV show…? Somebody posted that clip here not too long ago.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
The IC has broken lot’s of good Presidents before,
Maybe for once, I mean if the oath means anything, they should break a bad one for once.
Eolirin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Doctor Who, yeah
Steve in the ATL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I went into a country store on Scottsboro, Alabama to find an appropriately country gift for my boss in New Jersey. Sadly, there was. “Trump 2020” hat on display so I left without buying a coonskin cap.
B.B.A.
@Jay: If you’re arguing for a Turkish-style “deep state” that will overthrow the elected branches whenever they get too far out of line, you haven’t been paying attention to Erdogan. The model is unstable.
As I see it the best case scenario is that Trump does mortal damage to the IC in the next year and a half, but doesn’t have enough time to install his own puppet regime there, so the next President (whoever she may be) doesn’t get manipulated into invading Iran for no reason.
joel hanes
@Alain:
Am I the only one who gave to Kai Kahele’s primary campaign
No.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I would’ve gone with “with cruelty and calculation” instead of “like cockroaches”, but I’m glad she took that swing
@Eolirin: interesting, I have seen DW in a long time, I wouldn’t have expected the kind of plot line that clip suggested. More like an even darker version of (the real) House of Cards.
L85NJGT
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
He may have written the damn bill, but she straight up co-opted it. The odds anything like it gets through the sausage grinder is pretty much zero, so point to Warren.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m the first to say I nothing about anything military, but I know those prosecutors got screwed by a witness who got immunity and then lied his ass off. It’s the witness who should have had his immunity rescinded.
CatFacts
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The showrunner for Doctor Who that season was Russell T. Davies, whose current show is Years and Years. So yeah, he can go pretty dark in his political satire.
Eolirin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Doctor was quite angry at the Prime Minister, who just killed some hostile aliens that he had convinced to surrender and run away.
It happens in the last few minutes of the episode, and fully resolves itself with her being ousted by episode end, so it doesn’t quite rise to the level of plot line I think. Tennant’s and then even more so Smith’s Doctors were not someone you could get away with morally outraging if you wanted to survive.
Jay
@B.B.A.:
Yeah, there used to be a Turkish “Deep State”, it’s sorta gone. It wasn’t great.
The US IC is sitting on a shitload of “confirmable” information about Dolt 45 l, the Rethugs and his Minions.
They will continue to sit on it for 50 years, or until everybody is dead.
Nixon-Reagan Tapes.
James E Powell
@Kay:
I remember him being one of the very few Democrats in congress to take on George W Bush when many leading Democrats were falling all over each other in a rush to call him a Great War Leader. I don’t know why he doesn’t do more of that.
Jay
@L85NJGT:
Yup.
ArchTeryx
@Omnes Omnibus: I think it’ll be a moot point before much longer. I made the mistake of reading this (excellent) essay: http://www.catherineingram.com/facingextinction/
That’s 34 pages, kiddies, of the absolutely most eloquent version of saying “we’re all fucked, enjoy your imminent extinction” over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. In granular detail, including how to talk to the parents of young children about how their kids are doomed to an early death by starvation!
Fuck me. We’re living out the movie Melancholia, only with less rogue planets and a lot more slow death.
e.a.f.
Can’t be bothered to watch the debates. They are simply a show and I’ve got a feeling the ratings aren’t that great. So now we have a bunch of Dems. attacking each other when they ought to be demonstrating some unity. Must be working nicely for the Republicans. I’m sure they’ll be using some of these lines against the Dems come election time. these candidates need to go see a shrink. The all think they have a chance? omg, what egos. Over 20 candidates all vying for money, hell they could run out of it before the election is even called. Half of those candidates ought to go back to their day jobs and stop trying to audition for cabinet posts.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay:
That seems like an -extraordinary- claim. Care to show some receipts?
opiejeanne
@Adam L Silverman: Shudder.
We had another cult in Oregon that was plotting to kill all the people in the nearest town by serving them food contaminated with salmonella. More than 40 people were hospitalized. It was an ugly cult. Rajneeshpuram.
Jay
@ArchTeryx:
Posted yesterday that there’s a big UN Conference in September to create ways to prevent Continental Warming from reaching 1.41C in the next decade,
Along with a leaked IIPC report saying we, ( globally) hit that in June.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
Johnson,
Kennedy,
Carter,
Clinton.
e.a.f.
@MazeDancer:
I’d agree. CNN is just another billionaire style corporation which benefits from Trump and his tax cuts. Just some of their talking heads…….
they’re more like Fox light than anything progressive. They bother covering real issues, until well after things have gotten out of hand, like child concentration camps. haven’t seen CNN do anything useful since Katrina. they do serials on cooking, movies, etc, but they sure as hell don’t do anything like PBS does,. the report some fluff, have a bunch of talking heads but never get into things like why do people flee their own countries. Most likely because their corporate friends would be aghast if the truth were told. No one, beyond blogs, wants to tell the truth about the high rate of rape of girls between 10 and 14 in some countries and that they are forced to give birth, the huge gang issues, the military murders, the corruptions, no CNN doesn’t report on any of this.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: Nobody in a position of power has clean hands. What you’re really saying is, that you trust the MIC/IC to *never* use the fact that even “the good guys” have dirty hands, to depose them, yes?
I think most well-educated Americans think that that position is ….. well, if we’re goin’ with that, I want a pony, too.
Jay
@Jay:
Oh, and Butter Emailz, the Podesto Risotto Recipies.
ArchTeryx
@Jay: Personally, I think getting smashed by a “Super Earth” rogue planet would be the more merciful end for us, but Nature, as always, bats last. And we’ve fucked ourselves good and hard. It makes tonight’s debate seem like just so much trivial background noise, the mass denial of late-stage civilization.
This keeps up I’ll be one of those fruitloops walking around with a sandwich board, yelling, “The end is nigh!”
Chetan Murthy
@Jay: Wow, really? I don’t seem to remember any of them resigning or being hounded out of office. Maybe you’ll need to be more …. explicit?
The one that might qualify is Carter. But that actually goes against your position, b/c it was rogue elements in the IC that did the dirty to him over the embassy hostages.
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: Clinton: two terms
Johnson: done in by Vietman. I read _The Best and the Brightest_, and it’s pretty obvious that Johnson knifed himself in the groin.
Kennedy? Wha? Not the assassination, right?
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
Not saying that at all,
Johnson had the Chennault tapes,
IC’s are still classified.
Kennedy had the LeMay tapes,
The IC’s are still classified.
Detect a pattern?
If the IC’s job is to protect the US from all enemies, foreign and domestic, but they don’t bother,
Why have an IC?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chetan Murthy: Rudy Giuliani and James Comes both suggested there was some hinky shit going on at the NY FBI office wrt to Hillary Clinton. I imagine they were smart enough to never put anything in writing, ink or electronic, to Devin Nunes staffers, and told them to watch that too.
I also will not be surprised if Rudi and his law enforcement cronies, retired and otherwise, were both played and paid by Russians.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay:
So, no receipts then.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
Nixon, Chennault and the Peace Talks.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461@Chetan Murthy:
Kennedy, missile gap.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
Funny that, seconds later, receipts.
Cacti
Just as well that Gabbard hit Harris about her career as a prosecutor. It will definitely come up again if she’s the nominee. Best to get the responses sorted out when few people are paying attention other than the inside baseball crowd.
Jay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yup, and the IC “ knows nothing”,
Bullshit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UmzsWxPLIOo
Chetan Murthy
@Jay:Jesus H. Christ. What I remember, is that Johnson Knew. A cursory Google search confirms: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/03/newly-released-secret-tapes-reveal-lbj-knew-never-spoke-out-about-nixons-treason/317305/
Chetan Murthy
@Chetan Murthy: And furthermore how did Nixon’s conspiring with South Vietnam “break a President”? Johnson decided not to run b/c he’d completely fucked-up Vietnam. Fair enough, Nixon cheated and maybe robbed Humphrey. But that doesn’t prove your point.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: The NCIS investigators also, from what I’ve read in the reporting, really screwed up their investigation. But the minute the President, who is at the top of the chain of command, started publicly opining on the case, nothing good was going to happen justice wise. Textbook example of undue command influence.
Jay
And you missed the point,
Officially the IC knows nothing about Nixon/Chennault/Diem fuckery.
Some of it will be decassified in 2076.
Adam L Silverman
@opiejeanne: Wrote part of my master’s thesis on them and referenced them in my doctoral dissertation. I think I also use them as a case study in a publication I did in the late 90s/early 00s. The Rajneeshees and the Wendy’s salad bars.
Chetan Murthy
@Jay:
Again, show me where “the IC has broken good Presidents.” Because that’s what you’re asking them to do — break a President.
Anne Laurie
@Yarrow:
Yang’s starting proposal was for a Universal Basic Income — $1000 a month to every adult citizen, IIRC. As it was reported in the outlets I read, that idea took the fancy of the edgelord 4channers — living on a stipend & shitposting on the internet all day sounded good to them — so Yang was invited to do one of their Ask-Me-Anythings. During which, some ‘intactivist’ seems to have asked him whether he’d ban ‘male genital mutilation’, and Yang (who may or may not have understood what was being asked) half-heartedly said something that could be interpreted as a yes.
It’s never clear to me what percentage of the intactivist / MRA squad is serious, and what percentage is just there for the lulz, so the ‘truth’ of such theories is like trying to decode the reasoning behind the Flat Earth conspiracy ‘believers’.
Adam L Silverman
@Chetan Murthy: They refused to retask collection on the three key Iranian opposition movements – the students/intelligentsia, the merchant/business class, and the clerics – when asked to do so by Carter’s ambassador to Iran nominee prior to the revolution. They explained that the US has a shah only policy, will continue to have a shah only policy, and they weren’t going to retask collection for his boss. As a result Ambassador Sullivan, who Carter had recalled from being Ambassador to the Philippines and renominated him as Ambassador to Iran, went in largely blind. To the point where he was sending Iranian newspapers and other opposition material back to the US in diplomatic pouches every couple of days and paying grad students who were studying/fluent in Farsi to translate the materials and send them back because he couldn’t even get this level of support from the IC.
Anne Laurie
New post up top, in case nobody’s noticed yet.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Kay: Tulsi Gabbard is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.
Chetan Murthy
@Adam L Silverman: Adam, with respect [b/c you sure know a lot more than me about this stuff] this again doesn’t sound like the IC decided to take down Carter, and that’s why they did this stuff. Or is that what you’re implying — that the IC did indeed decide to take down Carter?
Jay
@Adam L Silverman:
Thank you Adam.
Adam L Silverman
@Chetan Murthy: Sullivan’s biography suggests that the IC’s reasoning, when he pressed them, was that Carter might only have two more years, so they weren’t going out of there way for him. I actually knew him, though not well, and he verified that take. As did the retired ambassador I used to work for. I don’t know if that’s take him down, but it sure did leave his administration open to being caught flat footed by the Islamic Revolution and its fallout.
lamh36
@Socraticsilence: To be fair that’s bullshit. Harris did not allow about Biden’s previous record. She hit him with his own record and foot in the mouth disease.
Tulsi straight up wa lying not just about Kamala record but even about shit like TPP that Biden should have checked her on
Chetan Murthy
@Adam L Silverman: Was there any evidence that the IC had good reason to think the Islamic Revolution in Iran would succeed? I mean, if they -also- believed the Shah was secure in his position, this sounds more like ….. incompetence than perfidy.
Adam L Silverman
@Chetan Murthy: I don’t know. I was 7 at the time that Sullivan made the request while in DC for his nomination hearings in 1977.
Jay
@Chetan Murthy:
You will know in 50 to 100 more years.
Omnes Ominbus
@Jay: I don’t really care about that. I’m in it for Drunk Jennifer Granholm as POTUS. The rest is commentary.
Omnes Ominbus
@guachi: I haven’t read the citations for them, but, on the Army side, an AAM isn’t something anyone would waste too much time worrying over. It’s a noncombat attaboy. The only place I remember anyone getting excited over one is in the 18th Airborne Corps where, back in the more peaceful times of the late ’80s-early ’90s, a junior officer who finished a tour with an AAM and senior jump wings knew thay they had done well.
wasabi gasp
Biden meandering through the post-debate crowd badgering folks to pull his finger is a power move.
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
Not necessarily, but on the other hand, if they aren’t there to protect us from foreign-controlled stooges elected by cyber-warfare attack, what are they good for in terms of protection from those enemies?
Just show us proof, that those Republican stooges for Russia are also controlled by that foreign enemy, and let us take care of the rest. Once we’re rid of Moscow Mitch, Sen Graham, a few others, we can do the rest.
@Chetan Murthy:
“The LAST thing we need, is them deciding to install Presidents.”
I don’t want a president installed, I want an illegitimate president uninstalled, and pronto. Including Pence.
J R in WV
@ruemara:
DC is usually great in October, clear bright fall days, not too crowded, wonderful food, museums, history.
Highly recommend the Vietnam Memorial, which a close friend and co-worker dragged me to see one cold December evening after a day of Database class. Also convenient to the Lincoln memorial, etc
Of course, lots of other history, practically every block of the city has historic meaning of some sort. Easy train ride from Boston, also.
J R in WV
@Socraticsilence:
This is factually incorrect in everything it attempts to assert, and otherwise makes no sense whatsoever. Probably just gibberish…
J R in WV
@opiejeanne:
That was another charismatic religious leader who collected Rolls Royce style autos and managed to turn the cult into a sex cult with himself as the sex god leader. IIRC, the illnesses were intended to twist an election, all the regular voters would be ill, the Rajneeshees would be in good health and vote in a landslide, to take over the county government.
J R in WV
And yet again I comment on a few of the hundreds of comments above on a dead thread. . . . . oh well, better late than not at all.