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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

So many bastards, so little time.

Russia bombs Ukraine’s maternity hospitals; Republicans in the House can’t sort out supporting Ukraine.

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

Wake up. Grow up. Get in the fight.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Come on, man.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Thursday Morning Open Thread: Raking Through the Ashes

Thursday Morning Open Thread: Raking Through the Ashes

by Anne Laurie|  August 1, 20196:22 am| 180 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, I'm With Her, Open Threads

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Sometimes the Democratic coalition feels like this should be its spirit animal:

Look at this dog that is available for adoption on Connecticuthttps://t.co/vGeW51f2Vm pic.twitter.com/8NlDzdiGwr

— Sleve McDichael ?? (@TanukiMaki) July 30, 2019


Healthy, probably smart, no doubt would make a great companion — but sometimes the poor little guy must wish his parents* had been a little less eclectic in their choices…

[my educated guess: Pug & Italian Greyhound]
******

Waking up to hot takes about a "meh" debate. You wanted entertainment from politics and you got Trump. Have you learned nothing?

— Julia Ioffe (@juliaioffe) July 31, 2019

Looking back over last night’s transcript, this answer from @ewarren stood out.

“Democrats win when we figure out what is right and we get out there and fight for it. I am not afraid. And for Democrats to win, you can’t be afraid, either.” pic.twitter.com/xLUVbCHNFB

— Kevin Robillard (@Robillard) July 31, 2019

The good thing about debates with ten people is:

Nothing.

This format sucks. Boot the pretenders. Nobodies soaking up minutes is just plain stupid.

— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) August 1, 2019

Here we go again with the goddamned media. Tonight’s debate is a BRAWL, a SHOWDOWN, a BATTLE. Cue the martial music and exploding graphics. Sofa king sick of this bullshit.

— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) July 31, 2019

As we pick nits and fire zingers, it's worth just generally appreciating our smart field of impressive candidates, all of whom run rings around Trump (with a few notable exceptions).

— Greg Pinelo (@gregpinelo) August 1, 2019

Activists should look at how the health care portion of the debates has proceeded and watch what they wish for in terms of a climate change debate.

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) July 31, 2019

::looks at Hillary Clinton’s platform::
Pretty damn progressive, probably https://t.co/Mbq3Bj2LoN

— Kaitlin Byrd (@GothamGirlBlue) July 31, 2019

Some candidates are in this race to move the discourse left, others to move it to the right.

In 2018 voters chose left, overwhelmingly.

Something to remember going forward. #DemDebate

— Victoria Brownworth ?️‍? (@VABVOX) July 31, 2019

Just heard from someone who’s seen DC types declaring it a dismal night for Dems, and almost every fellow Michigander happy w tonight and positive on the candidates

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) August 1, 2019

How many Russians would it take to rake Siberia? https://t.co/HDELYHfOzM

— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) August 1, 2019

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Previous Post: « On the Road and In Your Backyard
Next Post: Republicons in Disarray! »

Reader Interactions

180Comments

  1. 1.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 6:26 am

    Good Morning,Everyone ???

  2. 2.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 6:27 am

    Sending positive thoughts to Little Imma and the rest of the BJ Jackal Family.???

  3. 3.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:28 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 6:29 am

    Blech.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:29 am

    Some candidates are in this race to move the discourse left, others to move it to the right.

    In 2018 voters chose left, overwhelmingly.

    This is a dumb comment. Every single candidate would move the country and its policies left to where it is right now.

  6. 6.

    geg6

    August 1, 2019 at 6:30 am

    That pup is adorable.

  7. 7.

    Professor Bigfoot

    August 1, 2019 at 6:31 am

    That concerned little fella needs a home ASAP.

  8. 8.

    John S.

    August 1, 2019 at 6:34 am

    @Baud:

    Yup. When the political “center” is here:

    [———————————————X—]

    Everything looks like it’s to the left.

  9. 9.

    Immanentize

    August 1, 2019 at 6:36 am

    Good morning friends, It seems that AL’s friend, Murphy the Trickster God, is not done with me yet. Yesterday afternoon a storm came along taking out trees and power on my street. I was at the hospital watching the debate with the Immp.
    Came home to a dark house…. Power came back on two hours ago and although I have not yet opened the freezer, I am pretty sure I lost no fish.

    I am heading back to hospital soon….

  10. 10.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:40 am

    @John S.:

    Regardless of where you stick the X to represent the current state of the nation, every one of our candidates is to the left of that. The political spectrum of are candidates also doesn’t seem too different from the spectrum of candidates who won in 2018. It was really an idiotic tweet all around. I’m a little surprise it cleared AL’s screening process.

  11. 11.

    satby

    August 1, 2019 at 6:40 am

    @Immanentize: Good morning and give the Immp a hug from all of us!
    @rikyrah: @Baud: Good morning ?
    @OzarkHillbilly: ?

  12. 12.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:40 am

    @Immanentize: Buy a lottery ticket. You are due.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:41 am

    @satby:

    Good morning.

  14. 14.

    Immanentize

    August 1, 2019 at 6:41 am

    Sorry — meant to add update — the Immp is doing really well. I wrote last night that he has moved from pain to boredom. The current effort is getting his formula feed up to a certain level without nausea or pain. Then, he can come home. Maybe as early as this weekend. Hospitals are no place for sick people?

    ETA. Also, naturally, I have a big ass migraine today.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:42 am

    Just heard from someone who’s seen DC types declaring it a dismal night for Dems

    Was last night a day ending in “y”?

  16. 16.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:42 am

    @Immanentize: Hospitals suck. That’s amazingly fast. Good news.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 6:44 am

    Another advise to all the candidates. The GOP talking point line was nice the first time it was uttered. It’s gone stale. Don’t use it again.

  18. 18.

    eclare

    August 1, 2019 at 6:45 am

    @Immanentize: Hope it’s this weekend!

  19. 19.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 6:47 am

    @Immanentize: You keep your aquarium in the freezer?

  20. 20.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 6:48 am

    I heartily second the “boot the no-hopers” sentiment. I’ve heard the threshold for the next round is considerably higher. I hope it’s high enough.

    Some random thoughts about the debates:

    1) I thought the first debate showcased our candidates better than last night’s brawl-fest, but that seems to be a minority take.

    2) Neera Tanden, who is usually sensible, is wailing on Twitter this morning about last night’s candidates “attacking” PBO. (So is Joe Scarborough, but I expect twaddle from him.) I didn’t see it that way. PBO was a good president and an even better human being, but 2020 candidates are allowed to differ from the Obama admin on healthcare, immigration, etc. If their criticism is unfair, point out where it’s unfair using specifics, but it’s silly to preemptively banish all deviation from Obama admin policies. Unlike the GOP, we’re not a fucking cult. We already have one “back to the future” candidate. The others are allowed to set their own agendas.

    3) Biden is only six years older than Elizabeth Warren but seems at least 15 years her senior.

    4) Gabbard was poison in last night’s debate in a less frivolous way than Williamson was in the previous night’s set-to, but both need to GTFO.

    5) Somehow, we’ve got to wrest our political fate from the goddamned network moderators’ showbiz agenda. If Perez can figure out how to cut the cable networks out of the stagecraft and get the LoWV or some other civic-minded group to manage the debates, he’ll go down in history as the greatest chair in party history.

  21. 21.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 6:50 am

    @Immanentize: Glad to hear he’s making good progress. You are right — hospitals are no place for sick people! You’ll both feel a lot better when he’s outta there! :)

  22. 22.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 6:53 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning from Poco and his tribe! Spa day for Poco! Have a good day.

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    August 1, 2019 at 6:54 am

    If nothing else…and actually, that’s the case…last night’s debate was pretty good for memes. “Dipping into the Kool-Aid”, everyone piling onto Biden, Gabbard knocking Harris around, Biden screwing up his own website, etc etc.

    I’m going to try and leave it in that context for the rest of the day and then let it all go.

    Oh and also Julian Castro made an EXCELLENT case for pursuing impeachment: if we don’t, trumpov sure as heck will use it to claim all our investigating of all his crimes was about nothing. Can’t have that. My additional note: just open the impeachment inquiry and leave it open for the next 15 months if we have to (although I like Castro’s note about hanging any Senate acquittal on #MoscowMitch). It is not 1998 and Clinton & trumpov are NOT the same.

  24. 24.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 6:56 am

    @Immanentize: All great news! Let’s get him home. Positive thoughts.

  25. 25.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 7:00 am

    @Jeffro: The impeachment inquiry has been opened, though official it’s only an impeachment-infused or impeachment-tinged investigation.

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 7:01 am

    BlackRock, the world’s biggest investor, has lost an estimated $90bn over the last decade by ignoring the serious financial risk of investing in fossil fuel companies, according to economists.

    A report from the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis (IEEFA) has found that BlackRock has eroded the value of its $6.5tn funds by betting on oil companies that were falling in value and by missing out on growth in clean energy investments.

    The report found that BlackRock’s multibillion-dollar investments in the world’s largest oil companies – including ExxonMobil, Chevron, Shell and BP – were responsible for the bulk of its losses. The fund manager was also stung by the collapse of big US fossil fuel companies, including General Electric, and the coal mining company Peabody.

    So if the all powerful *markets* have figured it out (blackrock hasn’t), how long will it take Republicans?

  27. 27.

    Immanentize

    August 1, 2019 at 7:03 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I was thinking of Raven and his freezer wipe out.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 7:07 am

    I think my favorite moment was when Booker made clear that we lost in 2016 because of voter suppression and Russian involvement. Is that so hard to say?

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 7:10 am

    Injecting yourself with dog insulin? Just a normal day in America

    Sports media giant ESPN recently published an in-depth and supposedly inspirational feature on Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) hopeful Jordan Williams, who fought for a lucrative UFC pro contract, on 23 July. It described how the true fighter has persevered through difficulties, training hard and smart to rise to the top despite many setbacks, including his type 1 diabetes.

    “I’ve been an athlete my whole life, even before I was diagnosed as a diabetic and now long after. I always try to go my hardest and always try to train and push myself to the limit,” Williams explains.

    The article is a standard “triumph over adversity” piece until it casually notes in the 17th paragraph: “Williams doesn’t have medical insurance and cannot afford the treatment. So he buys insulin that’s sold for dogs at Walmart for $24.99 per bottle.”

    It accepts without comment that insulin costs up to $470 a bottle and that Williams considers himself “super lucky” that somebody told him he could use the cheaper, animal-grade substitute. Super lucky?

    Yep! Here in America you can buy and inject yourself with canine insulin with a used hypodermic needle. The article doesn’t say as much but I’ll bet $100 that this practice is ILLEGAL in most EU countries! Ain’t America great?

    FREEDUMB!!!!!!

  30. 30.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 7:11 am

    @Baud:

    That reminds me, I don’t think any of the moderators have brought up Democracy protection as an issue.

  31. 31.

    rp

    August 1, 2019 at 7:12 am

    @Baud: No — it needs to be drilled into everyone’s heads. It’s not about being clever, it’s about making that message part of the narrative.

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 7:13 am

    @Immanentize: I know, I still think the freezer is a strange place to keep an aquarium, which I note you don’t deny. ;-)

  33. 33.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 7:13 am

    @rp:

    Find a fresh way to say it. Calling something a GOP talking point over and over starts to sound like your dodging hard questions.

  34. 34.

    debbie

    August 1, 2019 at 7:14 am

    @Immanentize:

    Toss it all. That household has had enough sickness.

  35. 35.

    debbie

    August 1, 2019 at 7:14 am

    @Baud:

    How about “GOP Lies”?

  36. 36.

    Raven

    August 1, 2019 at 7:14 am

    @Immanentize: dang !

  37. 37.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 7:21 am

    @debbie:

    That would be an improvement if it’s a lie.

  38. 38.

    eclare

    August 1, 2019 at 7:23 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks for the link, forwarded on. USA#1!

  39. 39.

    J R in WV

    August 1, 2019 at 7:28 am

    @Immanentize:

    Hospitals are no place for sick people

    So true. When my Wife was finally sent home, she still had chest tubes implanted, much to the shock of the home health care nurses, who hadn’t seen a chest tube in years. Fortunately as part of the discharge process, I received a thorough course in first aide for a sucking chest wound and maintenance of a properly installed chest tube.

    She was sent home when she was because she had regained enough strength to walk into the house, and to avoid exposing her to any more hospital-borne diseases. THis was all back in 2011 or so, so been a long time ago.

    I’m sure Immp will be anxious to get home any moment now. They will ignore his wishes as a mater of policy, and will kick him out when they are sure he is good and ready.

  40. 40.

    satby

    August 1, 2019 at 7:29 am

    I shared this last night but it got lost in the debate thread. Kay is right, we really lost an opportunity when Mayor Pete didn’t win the election for the DNC. He really lays it out in this clip succinctly.
    It’s an expansion of his closing statement at the debate.

  41. 41.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 7:30 am

    @Quinerly:
    Morning to Poco and the tribe ???

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 7:30 am

    ???

    Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) Tweeted:
    This is so awful. Mentally ill man calls 911 for help. Police asphyxiate him in “prime” restraint. Grand jury indicts, but prosecutor dismisses. Ofcrs return to active duty. Only now do we get the video proof. Heartbreaking and appalling. https://t.co/nxJV2abKvR https://twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1156566116795375619?s=17

  43. 43.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 7:32 am

    Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) Tweeted:
    Folks are missing an important development from the debate.

    In taking on Trump’s racism, the Dems went hard at its *consequences* — rising hate crimes, discriminatory bans on travel, a spike in right wing terrorism, horrible messages to urban children.

    https://t.co/xEH72farxR https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1156591255050227718?s=17

  44. 44.

    J R in WV

    August 1, 2019 at 7:34 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The vaccine for Lyme disease is no longer available for human use, but vet Lyme disease vaccine works fine on people… if you can get it from you vet clinic, or a wholesale vet supply business. The anti-vax folks killed off the human supply. Thanks to them, no one can be vaccinated for this serious disease, even tho the vaccine exists, it isn’t available any more. CRAZY!

  45. 45.

    satby

    August 1, 2019 at 7:34 am

    Hah, my real name autofilled on my comment, and though I changed it, I’m in moderation. Please release me, let me go….

  46. 46.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 7:34 am

    ReclaimingMyTime (@MonieTalks_1) Tweeted:
    I don’t know what’s worse….

    Claiming people who live in large Southern cities are not the Deep South,or dismissing Black Southerners as the Confederacy.

    There is a disease in this country where too many folks, especially MSM, equate “real America” to white, rural folks. https://twitter.com/MonieTalks_1/status/1156586991343083520?s=17

  47. 47.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 7:36 am

    Truth???

    Adam Serwer? (@AdamSerwer) Tweeted:
    America has been a full democracy only since 1965. And these conversations essentially amount to: “why haven’t black people completely recovered from centuries of public policy designed to disenfranchise, impoverish, and marginalize them in a little more than half a century?” https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1156181170725543936?s=17

  48. 48.

    Cacti

    August 1, 2019 at 7:36 am

    Gabbard’s attack on Harris’s record as a prosecutor really caught KH flat footed. Better sharpen up the response while we’re still in the intramural scrimmage season. I can’t imagine the Breitbart candidate from Hawaii won’t bring it up again.

  49. 49.

    eclare

    August 1, 2019 at 7:36 am

    @rikyrah: Saw that yesterday. No words. I still don’t understand why the police were dispatched. Why not just an ambulance?

  50. 50.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 7:39 am

    Josh Jordan
    @NumbersMuncher
    ·6h
    Kamala on Tulsi’s attack: “Obviously I’m a top tier candidate and so I did expect that I’d be on the stage and take some hits tonight… when people are at 0 or 1% or whatever she might be at.”
    Harris is not making helping things there.

    I don’t know why she can’t say this. It’s true. Why do we all have to play along and protect the feelings of the 1% candidates? It’s been obvious from day one that this is how Gabbard sees herself gaining ground – it’s fine if she (and others, although not all the 1% candidates chose this) take this route but why do I have to pretend otherwise?

  51. 51.

    Nelle

    August 1, 2019 at 7:42 am

    I’m mostly a lurker here, rather than a frequent commenter but I’m butting in with a request for advice or even more specific help. Sorry for the length.

    Advice, please. My daughter, of tender heart toward all those who are broken and suffering, has four rescue dogs and one rescue cat. When a lost dog turned up in her neighborhood (in Phoenix) in 100+ degree heat, animal control picked it up and took it to the shelter. It turns out he was micro-chipped but the owner is not answering. Here, she admits that she should not have gone to the shelter to visit him but she stayed strong in her resolve not to bring him home.

    However, as she was leaving, a woman was sobbing about saying goodbye to her two teacup Chihuahuas. The shelter was full but gave an appointment for Aug 17. However, the woman was homeless due to a fire though she insisted she would find a place before Aug 17 and could my daughter just take them for four weeks? My daughter, who was already tearful about the first dog, just took the dogs along with an exchange of phone numbers.

    She said she was saying “How stupid of me” on her way home, but there it was. Oscar and Roxy are now at her house. She has decided to start rehoming them one way or another, a shelter or a rescue organization if she can find one, in case the owner, who seems a bit hinky, does not come through. Communication has been spotty and it is the sort of situation where one thinks “And this is the version of your story that you think makes you look good.”

    My daughter, who has been job hunting and freelancing (most regular client? The FTFNYT), just had a job fall into her lap yesterday and she needs to find a place for them before Aug 17, when, if nothing else happens, she will take them back to the shelter. She has contacted the Arizona Chihuahua Rescue organization but they are full. Any other ideas?

    My daughter has the best heart, which sometimes overwhelms her on the brain-heart balance of things. She wants to do the right thing and wait for the woman but has little expectation that the woman will get her act together on time and now, with her new job, needs to find a place ASAP.

    I have the grandchildren today (ages 5 months and 2 years) so will check back for advice when I can.

  52. 52.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 7:43 am

    @Kay:

    Seems ok to me.

  53. 53.

    John S.

    August 1, 2019 at 7:47 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Gabbard was a distraction – both verbally and visually. I’m not sure what she was coated in, but it made her look shiny.

  54. 54.

    Jeffro

    August 1, 2019 at 7:49 am

    @Betty Cracker: I look forward to them ramping up after Labor Day then, ‘cause right now they’re still dithering and second-guessing themselves.

  55. 55.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 7:51 am

    @Baud:

    I really, really like Harris’ bluntness. I also think it’s intimidating and it will intimidate Donald Trump. Also, and I don’t speak for all women but this has been my experience, I have noticed this, women are often chastised for not being humble enough in a way men never are. Harris is in a higher tier than Gabbard is. Everyone who stuck out watching this ridiculous “debate” until the bitter end is a politics fanatic and knows that. She can say it. As she said, “obviously…”

  56. 56.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 7:51 am

    @J R in WV: A far cry from what I endured in ’87. 6 days in the hospital with the chest tube.My room mate was let out after 2 days because he couldn’t take it any more, but only after signing an AMA (“against medical advice”) and having the tube removed. I’ve often wondered how long he lasted. As poor and old as he was it couldn’t have been long.

  57. 57.

    satby

    August 1, 2019 at 7:52 am

    @Nelle: ask the Chihuahua rescue group if they would add the dogs to their adoption listings if she can foster them a bit longer? And if they would put her on a wait list to take them? Also ask if they do rescue transports to other rescue groups that the dogs could be included on? Contact local vets and let them know that the dogs are available in case the vet’s office is aware of anyone who may be looking?

  58. 58.

    Cacti

    August 1, 2019 at 7:54 am

    @Kay:

    Why do you assume Trump will debate the Dem nominee?

  59. 59.

    satby

    August 1, 2019 at 7:56 am

    Oh c’mon! Can I get my comment at approx #40 out of moderation???

  60. 60.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 7:57 am

    @Kay: Agree that Gabbard is fair game. What do you think about the other candidates (Booker, Harris, Castro, et al) criticizing Obama admin policies? IMO, that’s all fair game too, but so many people whose political instincts are better than mine (i.e., almost everyone!) take the opposite view, so now I’m second-guessing myself…

  61. 61.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 7:57 am

    @Kay:

    She should have dismissed it as a left wing talking point.

  62. 62.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 7:58 am

    @Nelle: The only advice I have to offer is for what one should do to avoid these situations. Sorry.

  63. 63.

    JPL

    August 1, 2019 at 7:58 am

    @rikyrah: Weisman’s tweet was horrible and I think he needs to be dismissed. Weisman is the one who needs to get out of his bubble.

  64. 64.

    bystander

    August 1, 2019 at 8:00 am

    Claire McCaskill on Moanin’ Joe wondering why anyone wastes time attacking DeBlasio. I would add “or listen to him.”

  65. 65.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 8:01 am

    @Cacti:

    I don’t know why. That’s a good question. I guess he doesn’t have to and probably won’t. If I were him though, I’d be most afraid of Harris as someone who can hurt him. Maybe not really effectively help herself, she hasn’t been great at that, but hurt him.

  66. 66.

    JPL

    August 1, 2019 at 8:02 am

    @Nelle: Send the information to Anne and most likely she’ll front page it.

  67. 67.

    gene108

    August 1, 2019 at 8:06 am

    @Immanentize:

    Maybe as early as this weekend. Hospitals are no place for sick people

    I had a kidney transplant, at the end of last October. I was out of the hospital in 4 days. Doc said, you don’t want to be there too long. Lots of germs in a hospital, despite their best efforts.

    Glad he is recovering well. Whatever timetable the doctors give for him to get back doing regular activities is worth following.

    I tried to push myself to be “back to normal” too soon, and I think I would have had a faster recovery, if I had rested longer.

    Here’s to a successful recovery for the Immp.

  68. 68.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 8:10 am

    @rikyrah: ?

  69. 69.

    Cacti

    August 1, 2019 at 8:12 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Agree that Gabbard is fair game. What do you think about the other candidates (Booker, Harris, Castro, et al) criticizing Obama admin policies? IMO, that’s all fair game too, but so many people whose political instincts are better than mine (i.e., almost everyone!) take the opposite view, so now I’m second-guessing myself…

    You should be second guessing yourself.

    Obama is beloved by Dem voters and independents, and 2 1/2 years of the deranged orangutan as POTUS has only raised his stature.

    Anyone running against him is a cretin, actively trying to lose to Trump.

  70. 70.

    Kristine

    August 1, 2019 at 8:16 am

    @Immanentize: Best of thoughts for the Immp. Hope your headache eases soon.

  71. 71.

    Gin & Tonic

    August 1, 2019 at 8:19 am

    @gene108: When I had that crap put in my arm, they tried to get me out the same day. I said, no, I’m at least spending the night. There has to be some balance.

    But during the night they brought in a guy who fell off a ladder and broke both wrists, so that made me feel better. At least I was able to wipe my own ass.

  72. 72.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 8:19 am

    @Cacti: My question is not about “running against Obama” — it’s about deviating from Obama admin policies, as Harris, Castro, Booker, etc., did last night, to the horror of some bystanders. There’s a difference.

  73. 73.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 8:20 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I think it’s bad because it’s unnecessary. They can put forth different plans without doing it, so they shouldn’t do it. There aren’t only two choices- say nothing or attack Obama. They can leave the attack Tapper, et al, set up and skip straight to their plan. They all know how to do this. They do it constantly when it’s their own record. The criticism of Obama’s approach is implied in a different plan and the Democrats who were or are unhappy with Obama will get that. They’re doing it only because they want to ding their competitor, which means it isn’t about us, it’s about them.
    There’s a dumbness about these debates that they could change- they could trust their audience more. I get it- this frame is imposed on them and the dumbness is enthusiastically promoted by media and rigorously enforced, but they can think for themselves and not go along.
    One of the media people tweeted last night “they never mentioned the phrase ‘middle class'”. This is this stupidity, where there are magic phrases people have to utter. You don’t have to actually say “middle class” over and over – people in real life don’t put themselves in these political science categories. They’re not sitting there hearing NOTHING waiting for their class to be identified, at which point they perk up and listen.

  74. 74.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 8:22 am

    @Cacti: Over the years I have criticized several actions Obama took. That doesn’t mean I don’t have any affection for him, it just means I disagree with him on certain things, and if you asked him he’d agree that he didn’t always get things right.

    That’s not “running against him”, that’s telling the truth. Mind you, it might not be very politically astute but in politics, how one does things matters at least as much as what one does.

  75. 75.

    dimmsdale

    August 1, 2019 at 8:23 am

    Morning, all. Been offline for 3 days due to Verizon internet outage. (imagine a 3 paragraphs long rant here) so just catching up. @Immanentize: sorry to hear about the hospital stuff. Hope the young fella gets out soon, and OK!

    I imagine the League of Women Voters was kicked off the debate-admin duties because the nitwits at the DNC thought they needed some network razzle-dazzle to get people watching debates at all. I don’t think that’s the case any longer, and CNN has more than betrayed the trust the DNC put in them. Their lacquered empty suits think THEY are the show, and they’re hurting the country. Time to bring back the LWV!

    I want to know where every nickel of campaign money comes from, for both Gabbard and Williamson. Who’s funding them? who cares about them that much, and what do those funders expect to gain out of what is essentially funding spoilers?

    If Harris was caught flat-footed last night by a bantamweight like Gabbard, she better get all her chairs at the table fast. There were 2 state attorneys-general who could have made a big difference for millions of underwater homeowners during the big “robosigning” epidemic that cost millions of people their homes and their futures. One was Schneiderman (NY); the other was Harris. When Obama decided to look forward not back about the whole criminal robosigning enterprise, Schneiderman and Harris sat down and shut up, and so much for “justice” for the millions who were ripped off. (I still want to know what Obama’s sales pitch was to them, to get them to stand down.) I’ll vote for Harris if she’s the nominee, but IMO she’s got some ‘splainin to do.

    Someone on the Twits last night made the point that invariably these teevee panel shows accept Republican framing when they ask questions, AND that they assume the Democratic “center” is actually a center, instead of the right-wing contingent of the party. I agree; the whole R enterprise is jacked so far right it’s beyond right-wing; the “center” is actually a core of conservatism and complacency and ought to be regarded as such.

    I don’t mind at all when candidates (or panel guests) question the framing of moderators’ questions; I think it ought to happen a lot more often, and much more rigorously. It’s beyond time to knock some of these ‘moderator’ stooges off their faux “I’m above it all” perches.

    One of the most difficult (but necessary) jobs government will face is getting our police departments back under sane civilian control. Prosecutors in particular have an incentive to drop police brutality (or police homicide) cases; they need cooperation from police rank and file to make other cases and without it they’re f*’d. That putting police in their place (whatever happened to ‘protect and serve’?) is seen by many as unpatriotic is a serious problem that’s going to have to be addressed.

    @rikyrah: Yes. Another “moderator’s prejudice” that ought to be dispatched by guests every time it’s uttered. I get that in many backwaters, population is declining, opiates are flooding, jobs are scarce, economics are perilous, and “we’re the REAL America” is about all that some folks have left to give themselves some dignity. I think the way around that is to include them into the REAL ‘real America’, one that has room for everybody. Getting that done in the face of Fox News is going to be tough.

    Election security? Oh yeah–one of my jobs today (after emailing the DNC telling them to get their damn debates out of the claws of cable hucksters) is to call my local reps and find out whether/to what extent NY State voting machines are being secured. There’s been a series of Twitter posts from Jennifer Cohn describing the many ways our voting equipment is eminently hackable that ought to scare anybody.

    Excelsior! Cheers, all!

  76. 76.

    Cacti

    August 1, 2019 at 8:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s like some Dems are addicted to losing.

  77. 77.

    Sab

    August 1, 2019 at 8:30 am

    @dimmsdale: Thanks for the robosigning rant. Good point.

  78. 78.

    MomSense

    August 1, 2019 at 8:37 am

    Going to the veterinarian this morning. She’s not puking but she is listless and barely moving.

  79. 79.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 8:42 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    I was somewhat surprised by Booker doing it, because Booker’s got his own problems. Booker espouses Obama’s education policies, but on steroids, to the extent that he was doing speeches at Betsy DeVos’ “we hate public schools” events as late as 2012. That didn’t come up, but it will, because he’s vulnerable there and all his competitors know it. It’s a regional issue in a way, because the brunt of the anti-public school fever on the Right in the 2010 elections where all those Right wing governors swept the Great Lakes states was borne in MI, PA, OH and WI. It has particular salience here. DeVos is loathed and Democrats put that to good use in 2018. Booker was joining with her in a bipartisan manner up until Trump’s election. Wisconsins D governor, the guy who beat Walker, ran on public education. Same in MI. Same in PA. All those statewide rcaes where the D beat the R had public education as a central issue. These people WON Wisconsin and Michigan and they did it after Trump. I don’t know why Democrats have to reinvent the fucking wheel in these states. Run on the same things Democrats who won statewide ran on. We know that works.

  80. 80.

    eclare

    August 1, 2019 at 8:43 am

    @MomSense: Does the vet have any idea what might be wrong? Sending healing thoughts your way. Taking care of a sick pet is so distressing.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 8:44 am

    @MomSense:

    Poor baby.

  82. 82.

    JPL

    August 1, 2019 at 8:45 am

    @MomSense: Poor pup.

  83. 83.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 8:45 am

    @Kay: I watched the whole debate but didn’t enjoy it much, so it’s entirely possible that my attention wavered and I missed some super-critical exchange. It must have because I didn’t hear anything that justifies the reactions I’m seeing on Twitter from people like Neera Tanden.

    I heard Castro suggest Biden hadn’t “learned from the past” or something like that, and there was uncomfortable questioning about Obama-era deportation policies, etc. But it all seemed like fair game to me, particularly with Biden running explicitly as a restoration candidate.

    Your suggestion makes sense to me, though — they could frame it as “there’s always room for improvement, and here’s what I’d do differently” so as not to give people the white hot fantods.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 8:51 am

    @Kay:

    One of the unfortunate things about our debates — and it’s not just the moderators fault — is that we use them to relitigate the past.

    People’s pasts are relevant, of course, but there’s only so much you can do with that. I don’t think most voters care about who had the most error free life.

  85. 85.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 8:51 am

    @Kay: Yeah, Booker’s willingness to work with DeVos is one thing that gives me pause about him. What was up with that? If he gets further into the scrum, it will definitely come up.

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    August 1, 2019 at 8:54 am

    @MomSense: Poor thing. :(

  87. 87.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 8:54 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s tough because Biden has decided to attack them, which I think is a mistake, so arguably he set it up. I’m not happy with his attacks either. Portraying changing a piece of the immigration code from the criminal system to the civil/administrative system as “open borders! Hordes of brown people!” is a cheap shot, and Biden took that one. Joe Biden’s strength is his affability and his general MORAL argument against Trump. I don’t think attacking people is his nature and he should stop faking it.
    The truth is he doesn’t even have to go to policy specifics. He could stand up there at these things and give heartfelt speeches about how Trump is destroying our collective soul and be on his strongest ground.
    This is what I mean about being bullied by political media. He doesn’t HAVE to do anything they say he has to do. Just run your own show.

  88. 88.

    Cheryl Rofer

    August 1, 2019 at 8:59 am

    @Kay: There’s a clip going around Twitter of Chris Matthews and Elizabeth Warren that illustrates this nicely. Matthews is obsessessed with “How much will your plan raise taxes?” Warren talks about total costs and won’t be budged. I’ll see if I can find it.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 8:59 am

    I like that Harris made clear that she would separate health care from employment. I don’t know if that will be politically popular, but I like that as a poiicy. Health care and employment shouldn’t mix.

  90. 90.

    Cheryl Rofer

    August 1, 2019 at 8:59 am

    Watch Elizabeth Warren stand up to Chris Matthews as he looms over her and interrupts her constantly.
    She’s got a spine of steel. Mathews should be ashamed. pic.twitter.com/P8P8ER8mkO

    — Sean Kent (@seankent) July 31, 2019

  91. 91.

    Sab

    August 1, 2019 at 9:00 am

    When LeBron James set up his Promise Academy he did it within the framework of the Akron Public Schools, complete with unionized public school teachers and board of education oversight.. And it is working, with 100% high-risk kids.

  92. 92.

    Sab

    August 1, 2019 at 9:01 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: She did teach law school, with socratic method and all.

  93. 93.

    Aleta

    August 1, 2019 at 9:02 am

    @Immanentize:
    What with DF and the city, you hardly need my input. But hope you’ll indulge or ignore me for wanting to offer something.

    If later he’s to be on jello-like food, and if that stage goes on for a while: it’s really easy to make different jello things for variety. Unflavored gelatin (or agar agar, the powder is best) stirred into heated organic apple juice or broths/boullion is really good. (Needs chilling for 8 + hours. More agar=firmer.) This way you can make whatever he loves, mango juice, or grape, or chocolate soymilk, coconut, chai, limeade, watermelon juice. Or you can make it in firm cubes in an ice cube tray so it’s chewier.

    If his digestion is not sugar-restricted at first, there are desserts made with agar from different Asian countries that you might find. The traditional agar foods developed, I think, to keep one’s energy up in tropical weather but avoid food that’s hard to digest. They tend to be very sweet.

    Mizu yokan (a hot weather delicacy, from a good Japanese shop) may be an acquired taste. But it’s energizing — it’s made with bean paste, water sugar and kanten (J. agar). (Other yokan look similar but may have small whole beans in them. The ‘mizu’ kind is clear and softer jell. In summer some are made with matcha too.)

    There are also different anmitsu dishes, most with fruit or very sweet syrup, but for one kind you can buy just the clear white cubes of jelled agar and put cream or ice cream on them.

    A friendly Japanese-staffed restaurant might sell you some of its broth for its soba or ramen. Soba broth is light and fortifying, w/o the fat that’s in ramen broth from beef/pork. You can poach an egg in either or (my favorite) poached in miso soup. (Instant miso soup packets work well for that.)

    Or, the base for miso soup is very easy to make. Boil a piece of kombu and flaked bonito in water and strain them out. Then (off the heat or w/o boiling) hold some miso paste (the lighter kind w/rice is good) in a strainer spoon at the top level of the soup and mix it gently into the broth, using a chopstick. This way you can lift the small particles of soy back out of the soup for a clear broth.) *

    Later on, okayu is the J version of soup for people with tender digestion, babies, etc. The magic is in the type of rice and the water that comes from cooking it a long time, and the kombu etc.

    * An intermediate step, after straining the bonito flakes but before adding the miso off heat, is to boil some onion/potato til soft, or add greens. A poached egg would be done last, before or after the miso.

  94. 94.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 9:02 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: I heard it in real time. It was pretty awful. And I tend to give Tweety more breaks than others give him. It’s time for him to retire. I can imagine that he came off even worse visually.

  95. 95.

    eclare

    August 1, 2019 at 9:03 am

    @Kay: Good points

  96. 96.

    Another Scott

    August 1, 2019 at 9:06 am

    @Betty Cracker: Diane Ravitch doesn’t like Booker, at all.

    I think she’s seriously great on public schools. I don’t know how much weight to give her opinion on Booker (and Democratic politics in general), though. We all have our blind spots, and our buttons.

    (I haven’t watched any of the debates yet.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  97. 97.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 9:06 am

    @Quinerly:

    Didn’t we uncover his hatred of women in 2016? I recall him having to apologize for something.

  98. 98.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 9:07 am

    @Kay: totally true. Haven’t read all the threads from last night and today, but I think it gets no one anywhere to attack Biden like I saw last night. He’s not my first or 4th choice, but I felt really uncomfortable with Gillibrand attacking him last night. She was practically screeching. Up to that point, I had actually warmed up to her a bit. And, yes, I have a problem with her voice and delivery anyway?.

  99. 99.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 9:08 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Here’s what I think about the politics of immigration. Until pro-immigrants becomes a VOTING issue for Democrats like anti-immigrants is a VOTING issue for Trumpsters people like Biden will tack to the center on it. Mainstream national Democrats don’t think people vote on it, and there’s evidence to back that up. They may start voting on it! But so far they haven’t, with the notable exception of California. Michigan is (actually) home to some of the most demonized immigrant groups, as is Minnesota. But I don’t think Minnesota or Michigan D pols run on that, outside of mayors. They don’t think Democrats in these places vote on it. Sherrod Brown used to say it straight out- “that doesn’t move our voters”. He’s pro immigrant. He wins. But it isn’t why he wins.

  100. 100.

    Sab

    August 1, 2019 at 9:08 am

    @Quinerly: He’s fishing for a bad sound bite, and she is insisting on giving a sensible answer. I love the way she never lost her temper. It’s like she’s instructing a particularly thick student who just can’t understand the basic concept.

  101. 101.

    Aleta

    August 1, 2019 at 9:09 am

    @MomSense: Do they think it’s something she ate? When my pup has a stomach pain, she seems to feel better if I massage her spine just above her tail, in a circle.

  102. 102.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 9:10 am

    @MomSense: sending positive thoughts.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    August 1, 2019 at 9:12 am

    @Kay:

    Sherrod Brown used to say it straight out- “that doesn’t move our voters”. He’s pro immigrant. He wins. But it isn’t why he wins.

    He needs to exercise LEADERSHIP!

  104. 104.

    Nicole

    August 1, 2019 at 9:13 am

    A lot of Twitter bots pushing Tulsi Gabbard today. Always a good idea to click onto the Twitter profile and see when they joined. I see a lot of May and June, 2019. I guess Russia wants to raise her profile.

    (Post-debates, I get a good look at which of my liberal friends are most susceptible to propaganda, via the number of MSM talking points I see them parrot on FB.)

    Biden had the easiest out to the question about the op-ed he wrote in 1981- “I did write that, 30 years ago, and in the 30 years since then I’ve come to understand I was wrong; that women are an essential part of not just home, but the workplace, and deserve equality of opportunity.”

    But that would require him saying the “w” word, and that’s apparently really hard for him to do, especially when it’s an issue relating to women (see also Harris following up with the Hyde Amendment. I muchly enjoyed watching Gillibrand and Harris tag-team him there).

    FWIW, that 1981 piece was a bad op-ed all around; the main thrust was that it was wrong for wealthier parents to get the tax credit for child care, too (dude; that’s what makes it popular; everyone with kids can benefit from it. See also, Social Security vs SNAP benefits in the minds of the American public). But the bit at the end, where he lamented the rise in nursing homes and daycare centers, rather than old folks and kids living at home, being taken care of for free by their daughter or mother, respectively (because, obviously, he wasn’t referring to a man doing that kind of work), was just… oh lord.

  105. 105.

    J R in WV

    August 1, 2019 at 9:16 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Wife was in hospital for a little more than 2 months beginning with septic shock from pneumonia. After being discharged from MICU after 3+ weeks, and beating septic shock, her left lung collapsed, so minor surgery to implant chest tubes. Lung did not reinflate, time passed, finally her chest surgeon decided he had to take a look, and perhaps patch a small leak in the lung. Told me, 30 minute job. No sweat.

    4+ hours later he shows up, pasty and sweaty (esp for a Fllipino Dr), had found the third lobe of her lung was necrotic, rotted away. He scraped and cleaned and disinfected. Had not only never seen such a case, hadn’t even heard of one.

    But total success with an experienced surgeon winging it. And he wanted to get her out of the hospital asap, which also worked out pretty well. Her lung inflated to fill the vacant space as well. Family doc was pretty much overjoyed. Survival of septic shock sufferers is only around 30%… so all around success on everyone’s part. All the medical folks from family doc, surgeon, nurses, total unexpected victory.

    MICU nurses mostly combat medic vets with trauma experience in the ‘stans. Great guys, still saving lives on a daily basis. So grateful.

  106. 106.

    Aleta

    August 1, 2019 at 9:19 am

    @Sab: How exhausting he must be to speak with. The whole event seemed needlessly sapping and wasteful of the intelligent folks who are fighting T and the Rs so hard. Last night the number 10 seemed designed for media spectacle on stage as much as anything. The stage was obscene, just a reminder of the money wasted in politics that ignores people’s pain.

  107. 107.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 9:21 am

    @Baud: I just remember his being so upset about a blowjob in the Clinton years. He was very obsessed. It was like since he was a good Catholic boy he had never heard of one.? I have tended to give him more breaks than I should. He’s a recovering alcoholic who has discussed it extensively and has such a fondness for his years of being around Tip and working for Pres Carter. And he was in the Peace Corps. His wife was a newscaster. Now, big wig at Marriott, I believe. Time for him to retire, though. Like I said.

  108. 108.

    Hoodie

    August 1, 2019 at 9:22 am

    @Kay: I understand why Castro stresses immigration, but I think it tends to limit him as a candidate. I’ve only seen shorter passages from the debates, but he comes across in those as one of the more impressive candidates. He thinks well on his feet and is more genuinely charismatic than Beto, who comes across as “charisma robot” at times. His discussion of impeachment was spot on last night. There’s something to be said for the theory that the Latino candidate doesn’t need to talk about immigration so much.

  109. 109.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 9:25 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    It is MADDENING to me that the reward from Democrats actually being good with a budget is they are the only people held to one. This is backwards. Heaven forfend someone should actually expect people to PAY for something! What they’re saying over and over with this is “we cannot ask the middle class to pay for anything“. They have to pay for health care! They’re paying for it now! Why does it change when they’re paying a government to act as the insurer?

    Your health care plan is compensation. It is not “free”. Your employer is not “giving” you anything. And the “labor union” talking point! If there is ANY group of people who know health insurance is part of a compensation package it is union members, who enter into contract negotiations where health insurance is specifically identified as compensation. Obviously if there is Medicare For All and their employer is no longer buying them health insurance they will move that compensation to either wages or retirement.

    Cable people know this because THEY include it in compensation when they want to attack lazy union thugs. They get the high hourly rate they throw around from adding together wages + health insurance + retirement benefits. That’s where they get it.

  110. 110.

    J R in WV

    August 1, 2019 at 9:27 am

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Watch Elizabeth Warren stand up to Chris Matthews as he looms over her and interrupts her constantly.
    She’s got a spine of steel. Mathews should be ashamed. pic.twitter.com/P8P8ER8mkO

    — Sean Kent (@seankent) July 31, 2019

    I didn’t see that, but I despise Chris Matthews specifically because he plays that gotcha BS all the time, He talks over his guest’s answers, interrupting, taking the stage for himself as if he’s the person who matters rather than the guest, who was presumably invited to inform Matthews rather than vice versa.

    He’s an arrogant bully who should be put out to pasture as a late night weather coverage guy in rural Oklahoma. He has no place in national politics nor as an interviewer, because he just plain can’t force himself to listen to other speakers at all.

    Reading a weather forecast from NOAA, sure, he can do that, probably. Would probably get people killed in tornado season, tho, disagreeing with NOAA…

    ETA: Senator Warren should have said the first time Matthews interrupted her. “Don’t interrupt me, Chris, I’m here to talk, you’re here to listen to me. Because I’m the candidate here!”

  111. 111.

    MomSense

    August 1, 2019 at 9:30 am

    Thanks everyone. She just had all the indignities of temperature taking and bloodwork. Waiting for results and then an X-ray depending on the results.

    @Aleta:

    Yes, we think it’s something she ate and best case it just really irritated her intestines. Hopefully it wasn’t something toxic that has done organ damage. She was puking and dry heaving nonstop and needed fluids and antiemetics yesterday. Today she didn’t bounce back so we’re looking for what may be causing this.

  112. 112.

    gene108

    August 1, 2019 at 9:30 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I was finally taken to the OR at 11:30 pm, Monday night, after getting to the hospital at 2 pm.

    Woke up around 6 am Tuesday.

    I wasn’t allowed to try and poop until Thursday or Friday. Being able to poop was one of the things they wanted me to be able to do before discharge.

    After that, they couldn’t get me out of there fast enough.

  113. 113.

    OldDave

    August 1, 2019 at 9:30 am

    @John S.:

    I’m not sure what she was coated in, but it made her look shiny.

    Slime

  114. 114.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 9:33 am

    @Baud:

    This is completely anecdotal but I have quite a few (minority) immigrant-sympathetic clients here- they are mostly not immigrants- they’re citizens, but with immigrant parents. They’re Mexican (here) for a very good reason- they were brought here to harvest ag product that needs to be processed by hand. They no longer do that work, but that’s why their parents came here.
    My sense is they feel safer keeping their heads down. It’s rational. They’re discriminated against. I don’t think they feel they are safe enough to make demands and honestly it’s probably not “them”, it’s probably their children they are worried about. That’s rational and I completely understand. There is a real reluctance to speak too harshly about US policy. They don’t feel comfortable doing it.

  115. 115.

    gene108

    August 1, 2019 at 9:35 am

    @Kay:

    Obviously if there is Medicare For All and their employer is no longer buying them health insurance they will move that compensation to either wages or retirement.

    I don’t agree. To me, it is obvious the employer will pocket all or most of the cost savings.

    What are 90% of the non-union employees in the country going to do? Bargain collectively for the extra cash to go back to them?

  116. 116.

    HinTN

    August 1, 2019 at 9:35 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    So if the all powerful *markets* have figured it out (blackrock hasn’t), how long will it take Republicans?

    Longer than blackrock.

    ASATASQ

  117. 117.

    J R in WV

    August 1, 2019 at 9:35 am

    @Quinerly:

    …

    His [Matthews’] wife was a newscaster. Now, big wig at Marriott, I believe.

    And Marriott is one of the most anti-union right-wing corporations in this country, founded by Right-Wing Nut Job LDS guy from Utah.

  118. 118.

    bemused

    August 1, 2019 at 9:36 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Ha, this just confirms my opinion that a lot of, maybe most, fund managers aren’t the wizards they think they are, ignoring the clean energy progression.

  119. 119.

    HinTN

    August 1, 2019 at 9:37 am

    @Immanentize: Echoing all the previous good wishes. ?

    Chants:
    Bring him home!

  120. 120.

    the Conster

    August 1, 2019 at 9:37 am

    So is this the media we’re going to put our faith in to cover impeachment *hearings* rigorously and in good faith to turn the countries eyes to #MoscowMitch? Really? Does everyone understand the Jeff Zucker and Trump are BFFs in cahoots? Do we understand now that it’s not 1974 in any way, shape or form, or even 1996?

  121. 121.

    Nicole

    August 1, 2019 at 9:38 am

    @Kay: You’re so right, and it’s infuriating to see “Employer Provided Health Care” being flung around like it’s a free gift that some (deserving) folk get that the mean Democrats want to take away.

    The other point I’d love to see brought up, re: employer provided health care is that if that employer goes under, frequently the employees, regardless of if they’re unionized or not, often lose everything- pension, health care, all those benefits that they negotiated for and WERE PROMISED. But tough, because there’s no money. Why the hell don’t any of the candidates say, “Employer provided benefits are dependent on the company staying financially solvent, and we have often seen that not happen. The benefits get whittled down, or just disappear because the company closes. I, as a government employee, have no fear of the United States closing up shop and taking away my health care and I would like the rest of my fellow Americans to have that same security I enjoy.”

  122. 122.

    different-church-lady

    August 1, 2019 at 9:38 am

    You wanted entertainment from politics and you got Trump.

    And the problem is: they’re fine with that.

  123. 123.

    gene108

    August 1, 2019 at 9:40 am

    @Kay:

    Same thing, traditionally, with gun control for Democratic voters.

    Nice to do something about it, but I’m not going out on a cold rainy Tuesday, in November, to cast a vote about it.

    Whereas, the gun nuts will crawl over molten lava to vote about it.

  124. 124.

    the Conster

    August 1, 2019 at 9:40 am

    @different-church-lady:

    Jeff Zucker and Trump go way back. The media execs are all his golfing and raping buddies. Why does anyone have any faith in media? THEY GAVE US TRUMP AND WANT TO KEEP HIM.

  125. 125.

    HinTN

    August 1, 2019 at 9:44 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: We had a blockhead lab that began having seizures later in life. The vet sold us half the free world’s supply of valium without batting an eye. It worked great but it sure felt strange to have such ready access to such a heavily controlled substance for human beings.

  126. 126.

    MomSense

    August 1, 2019 at 9:44 am

    Looking like liver problem. Ugh.

  127. 127.

    oldgold

    August 1, 2019 at 9:45 am

    I watch these debates like preseason NFL games. That is, I do not watch them. Why? Like NFL preseason games, they are too early, have too many participants and do not mean a damn thing. And, by chance, if something interesting happens, I can watch it 12 times the next morning on political center.

  128. 128.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 9:45 am

    @gene108:

    That’s a fair point but that isn’t what all these people are hitting them with with. Delaney says over and over “the IBEW”- my middle son is IBEW and I feel confident leaders and members know exactly what they’re paid and how they’re paid, because that’s what they negotiate. Other wage workers know this too- they know exactly what is on their pay stub. They tell me where to find the deduction for heath insurance. This is a salaried worker problem. They’re the people who have health insurance rolled into an annual salary. Everyone else knows they pay for it.

    Media and right wingers do this all the time. They do the same thing with pensions. They pretend it’s some gift- employers don’t give people gifts. It’s this insane serf mentality. If it isn’t PAY what is it? Is there some other category? There’s work = pay. Put it in any form you want. It’s all pay. It can’t be anything else.

  129. 129.

    Immanentize

    August 1, 2019 at 9:50 am

    @Kay: But they actually did say “middle class” over and over again last night when talking about who would the M4A burden fall on. Or was that guy talking about the Tuesday debate?

  130. 130.

    gene108

    August 1, 2019 at 9:52 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Thinking about our healthcare, in the context of the rest of the Western Hemisphere, it sort of makes sense.

    Outside of Canada, the rest of the Western Hemisphere, had several centuries of slavery, and a lot of parts of our Hemisphere are far more hostile to unions, labor rights, etc., than we are.

    Basically, this Hemisphere was founded on the basis of gross inequality, and outright hostility to non-European getting treated as equals with people of European decent.

    We like to think of ourselves as descended from the Western European Enlightenment, and the ideas of equality and human rights it pondered, but I think we built our country more along the lines of old Europe, than we want to admit, with a proper(-ish) ruling class, and those others, who need to be subjugated.

  131. 131.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 9:52 am

    @gene108:

    We saw it come to the height of insanity with the birth control “controversy”. Why does the Catholic Church believe they still own the health insurance their employees took as compensation? Do they still own the money they paid them? This is an exchange. Work for pay. Once it leaves the Catholic Church coffers and is paid to individuals it belongs to them. We have idiot conservatives talking about “fungability” as if that’s a real thing. Okay, I’ll bite. How LONG does the Catholic Church retain ownership of the compensation they pay employees, and why doesn’t this apply to actual cash wages?

    Chris Mattews has a stock plan thru work, I imagine, or the lower level non-multimillionaires at that cable channel do. Is it theirs or is it MSNBC’s?

  132. 132.

    Quinerly

    August 1, 2019 at 9:54 am

    @J R in WV: yep
    I also think she tried to run for Congress from Maryland as a Dem. People can be a mixed bag.

  133. 133.

    dnfree

    August 1, 2019 at 9:55 am

    @Baud: This tweet was written by someone who doesn’t have much familiarity with the Midwest.

  134. 134.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 9:55 am

    @J R in WV: Glad it all turned out well, there were at least a half dozen points where things could have gone the other way. It’s as hard to bat 1.000 in medicine as it is in baseball.

    Mine was a fairly simple on the job injury. Unfortunately, it was a side job and I had no insurance so I ended up at STL Regional. My ER experience was hilarious, even at the time I could see how farcical it all was. I knew all of my doctors were real doctors because none of them spoke English. This did not include the baby faced, scared shitless, young white kid who cut me open and inserted the tube while a half dozen of his classmates watched and thought, “Thank God he didn’t pick me.” Sad to say, he had more trouble understanding the real surgeon’s instructions than I did.

  135. 135.

    Immanentize

    August 1, 2019 at 9:56 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Over the years I have criticized several actions Obama Israel took. That doesn’t mean I don’t have any affection for him The country, it just means I disagree with him it on certain things, and if you asked him he’d agree that he didn’t always get things right.

    That’s not “running against him” “being an anti-Semite, that’s telling the truth.

    Another version of the same.

  136. 136.

    Yarrow

    August 1, 2019 at 9:56 am

    @Baud:

    I don’t think most voters care about who had the most error free life.

    Ain’t that the truth! Trump got elected so clearly that’s not an issue.

  137. 137.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 9:58 am

    @Nicole:

    Warren tried to bring that up, that portraying this as some kind of guarantee is nonsense, but the moderators joined together to shout her down. It’s amusing to me, because they want it both ways. They want to tell people “it’s not 1950! Get modern! You’ll have to cobble together “a living” from exciting opportunities, but then when it’s convenient they pretend everyone works for IBM and it’s 1972. Which is it? Government health care fits much better into an insecure work environment. So do we have one of those or not? We only get the downside, no upside? Another great deal for the middle class, brokered by cable multimillioniares.

    They should stop helping the middle class. They’re fucking killing them with their kindness and concern. Please, Dear God, forget about us again and go cover celebrities. We’ll do better on our own.

  138. 138.

    gene108

    August 1, 2019 at 9:58 am

    @Kay:

    They tell me where to find the deduction for heath insurance. This is a salaried worker problem. They’re the people who have health insurance rolled into an annual salary. Everyone else knows they pay for it.

    Even salaried employees have a partial health insurance contribution.

    What was not disclosed, prior to the ACA, is what’s the balance of the premium the employer pays. Now it is required, for large employers, to show the total of the premium on the W2.

    Pretty much everyone knows health insurance is part of their compensation package, but since it is not money in the bank, it doesn’t feel tangible to most people. It’s this theoretical thing they pay for, but rarely use. They don’t see the immediate benefit of it.

  139. 139.

    Barbara

    August 1, 2019 at 10:00 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: That was awesome. She totally wore him down and didn’t let him set the ground rules. That is the only way forward with the press.

  140. 140.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 1, 2019 at 10:03 am

    @Kay: Back around 2014, 2015 I remember seeing some (white, native-born) liberals on social media basically saying outright that we should throw undocumented immigrants under the bus–that these people are breaking the law so there’s not much we can really do for them, this is a losing issue for Democrats and it’s just not the hill we should die on. But Trump forced the issue so hard by going on about Mexican rapists right out of the gate, then pursuing a blatantly inhumane policy on asylum seekers and shutting down legal immigration. It’s a matter of convincing liberals, among other things, that the right’s framing is factually wrong and it’s really not just about enforcing the law any more.

  141. 141.

    Barbara

    August 1, 2019 at 10:08 am

    @Nelle: Chihuahas are popular dogs because they are so small, assuming that these two don’t have any non-negotiable issues (things that can’t be tolerated in big dogs can be managed in small ones). Contact vets, animal hospitals, chat boards and any other reliable forum for adopting or fostering dogs, beginning with breed specific ones. If the original owner can be contacted, ask her who the breeder was, to see if that is a possible avenue. Even if she doesn’t want them back, if they were her dogs, she might have a waiting list of potential owners. I adopted a chihuahua mix from my local no-kill shelter.

  142. 142.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 10:08 am

    @gene108:

    I don’t agree with Medicare for All. I like Tim Ryan’s plan (just shoot me) – do a voluntary buy-in and include employers. I think Bernie has the horrible Lefty penchant for mandating compliance with his whole ideology. It’s awful and it’s what keep me from aligning with them. They have an authoritarian need for surrender, which they portray as “principle” but is really about forcing people to buy their whole agenda. Fuck that. I can pick and choose and I will. I’m tired of them setting lines in the sand. I don’t have to be brought into compliance.

  143. 143.

    O. Felix Culpa

    August 1, 2019 at 10:10 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: BRAVISSIMA LIZ! I have never watched that jerk interviewer before. He’s rude.

  144. 144.

    HRA

    August 1, 2019 at 10:11 am

    I am a retired government worker for NYS. I worked for 32 years. When I went to the retirement board I was asked if I wanted to keep my health insurance and I opted to keep it. I pay the same amount of my share that I paid when I was working. The retiree option given by the union allows me to be covered for dental care at a monthly fee. Note: Nothing is free.
    On the first day of my job I had to go to the office to choose my health care provider out of a choice of 3 plans. I chose the middle plan.
    The children are on their own and now there is my husband and I living the life of seniors. Yes, we are also on Medicare. They do not allow you on SS without Medicare. All our health needs are paid by our health insurance. Medicare has not paid for anything from surgeries to office visits.

  145. 145.

    dnfree

    August 1, 2019 at 10:12 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    3) Biden is only six years older than Elizabeth Warren but seems at least 15 years her senior.

    I am not as old as Biden, but in my early seventies. I do feel more than six years older than I was six years ago. I am also watching people my age and older who were quite healthy and active a year or two ago and now are not, because of either chronic or sudden health conditions. Nominating someone who is older than me is a gamble the party shouldn’t take. It’s far from a sure thing. He could have a stroke between now and the election, or his general senior symptoms could just become harder to ignore. What if a year from now the deterioriation can’t be ignored or swept under the rug? It’s not impossible that TRUMP would look healthier than Biden by then.

    He should NOT be doing this and people shouldn’t consider him the “safe” choice.

  146. 146.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 10:12 am

    @MomSense: Sorry to hear that.

  147. 147.

    Nicole

    August 1, 2019 at 10:12 am

    @Kay: I missed the first hour of the debate, but I saw Matthews keep shouting, “TAXES” while Warren tried to say, “costs” when he interviewed her afterwards.

    I think it would benefit the Dems to use a bit of fear- lose your job, lose your health care- to remind those of us with gold-plated benefits that they aren’t a guarantee- that there are no guarantees for employees, ever.

    Also, apparently #kamalaharrisdestroyed is trending on Twitter, so the bots are out in full force. Ugh.

  148. 148.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 1, 2019 at 10:13 am

    @Kay: That’s the kind of bait and switch that happens all over–go on about the free market and its creative destruction producing optimal results for everyone, then when they’re confronted with a non-optimal result, come back with “well, that’s how the market works” as justification. I must have missed a step somewhere.

    Similarly, saying in advance that some war is going to be a cakewalk in the best interest of freedom and human rights, then when the stories of your side committing atrocities come back, switching to “well, war is hell.”

  149. 149.

    different-church-lady

    August 1, 2019 at 10:16 am

    @rikyrah: Especially considering how much systemic racisim remains baked into the cake.

  150. 150.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 1, 2019 at 10:17 am

    @Immanentize: Happy to hear Immp is doing well. And sorry about the migraine.

    My house guests left this morning and I’m catching up on politics and laundry. Twitter has a lot of bots saying Harris was “destroyed” last night. I’m happy to see BJ doesn’t think so.

  151. 151.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 10:17 am

    @Immanentize: And a good part of the reason I have sent Omar 2 contributions.

  152. 152.

    Nicole

    August 1, 2019 at 10:19 am

    @Barbara:

    Chihuahas are popular dogs because they are so small, assuming that these two don’t have any non-negotiable issues (things that can’t be tolerated in big dogs can be managed in small ones).

    That reminds me of one of my most favorite things I’ve seen on the internets:

    14 Most Aggressive Dog Breeds Ranked

  153. 153.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 10:19 am

    @MomSense:

    Sending positive and healing thoughts. May you get a definitive answer from the vet.

  154. 154.

    Kattails

    August 1, 2019 at 10:20 am

    Well on a chirpy note, one of my recent robin fledglings just landed in front of the kitchen window and started pecking around looking for bugs, still wearing his spotty breast but turning red already. Very cute and somehow satisfying. Just flew out of the woodshed about 3 days ago.
    @Cheryl Rofer: Loved it. Made me laugh, Warren was just not having it. Reminded me of the clip someone posted of Joy Behar’s interview with Melania about the Obama birth certificate–“But Melania, this is literally what the state of Hawaii issues, do you honestly believe that no one from Hawaii can ever run for President?” (or are you really dumber than a bag of rocks?)
    @J R in WV: WTFF? I need to look this up. Lyme disease is a huge concern here and I have never heard of this.

  155. 155.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 1, 2019 at 10:21 am

    @gene108: Once you hit 50 or so you do start using it quite a lot, though. And the problems with it become more visible too.

    Then when you become eligible for Medicare the worry is that they’re going to take yours away to give it to somebody else. But it does seem do me like there’s an opportunity to convince people in the 50-67 age range that they could do better.

  156. 156.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 10:21 am

    @Kay:

    I don’t know why Democrats have to reinvent the fucking wheel in these states. Run on the same things Democrats who won statewide ran on. We know that works.

    Tell that truth, Kay!!

  157. 157.

    Immanentize

    August 1, 2019 at 10:22 am

    @Aleta: That is so great — Thank you!!!

    I am spending my time managing his expectations regarding when he can eat his first cheese burger.

  158. 158.

    schrodingers_cat

    August 1, 2019 at 10:24 am

    @Kay: Shouty Frank Costanza from Vt is as big a bully as the Orange T in White House. Why do all these presidential contenders originally from NYC have to be so loud and obnoxious. It was Bill DeBlasio’s turn yesterday to be the shouty NYC guy.

  159. 159.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 1, 2019 at 10:25 am

    @Kattails: The incredibly frustrating reason there’s no Lyme disease vaccine at Vox.

  160. 160.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 10:27 am

    @J R in WV:

    Wow…that’s a wild story. So glad she recovered.

  161. 161.

    O. Felix Culpa

    August 1, 2019 at 10:28 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I can’t remember who started the shouty political tv shows – Novak and Evans? That disgraced R’s Round Table who has fallen into my black hole of memory? Whoever or whenever it was, that’s when I stopped watching them. I do not like paying people to shout at me.

  162. 162.

    rikyrah

    August 1, 2019 at 10:35 am

    @Kay:

    The center might have been acceptable once upon a time, but, now, we have people in cages. There is no middle of the road on that.

  163. 163.

    Uncle Cosmo

    August 1, 2019 at 10:36 am

    @Immanentize: Here’s one for you & the Immp, my friend: Some Days There Just Ain’t No Fish. And here are the Hoagy Carmichael lyrics

    (Swear to doG, I recall this song from a performance by the frackin’ Mouseketeers on an episode ca. 1958, with all the kids in fisherman slickers. Enjoy!).

    ETA:

    Hospitals are no place for sick people.

    No Schmidt, Sherlock. Can you say “nosocomial infections”? I knew you could!

  164. 164.

    L85NJGT

    August 1, 2019 at 10:38 am

    @Kay:

    Yep. They are authoritarians.

  165. 165.

    Chief Oshkosh

    August 1, 2019 at 10:41 am

    @Kay:

    I don’t know why she can’t say this. It’s true. Why do we all have to play along and protect the feelings of the 1% candidates?

    Because regardless of the motivation or who the statement comes from, the statement still needs to be addressed directly. Harris’ actions as a prosecutor are fair game for comment. She’d better have good answers because soon the statements won’t be coming from the likes of Tulsi; they’ll be coming from other top-tier candidates as we get down to the short list of candidates. I’m surprised that she’s trying to use ad hominem as her response here because I know for a fact that she’s consulted with several civil rights groups and criminal defense associations for advice on these issues. I’d assumed that she’d gotten useful counsel from them, but I guess it’s possible that they all told her to get stuffed.

  166. 166.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 1, 2019 at 10:43 am

    @O. Felix Culpa: The McLaughlin Group was a major step into the abyss.

  167. 167.

    O. Felix Culpa

    August 1, 2019 at 10:48 am

    @Matt McIrvin: Yes! That’s the name that (deservedly) went down the memory hole.

  168. 168.

    mapaghimagsik

    August 1, 2019 at 10:51 am

    @Matt McIrvin: WRONG!

  169. 169.

    Uncle Cosmo

    August 1, 2019 at 10:54 am

    @Cheryl Rofer: Geez – if only Senator Professor Warren had said, after the 3rd or 4th time he cut her off in midsentence,

    Sorry, I don’t engage with jerks who won’t let me finish a thought. Look me up when you’ve learned the manners your parents should’ve taught you, Chris.

    – & walked away.

  170. 170.

    L85NJGT

    August 1, 2019 at 11:00 am

    @dnfree:

    He’s a political relic of the DFL era party. The oppo research on him, like the 1981 editorial above, mostly remind you how old the guy is, because the content is now irrelevant.

  171. 171.

    zhena gogolia

    August 1, 2019 at 11:02 am

    @MomSense:

    I’ve been thinking of you. It’s so difficult. I’m glad she’s stopped vomiting. Maybe it will just take her time to recover from that.

  172. 172.

    zhena gogolia

    August 1, 2019 at 11:05 am

    @MomSense:

    Oh, yes, ugh. I hope it’s treatable.

  173. 173.

    Kattails

    August 1, 2019 at 11:35 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks for the follow up! I did go look it up after my comment, and found that page; but haven’t found that the canine one would be OK for humans. Very helpful info to have though, always the full-service blog here. My next-door neighbor is an anti-vaxer, was pro-Bernie last time around, probably switched to Williamson now SIGH.

  174. 174.

    Gelfling 545

    August 1, 2019 at 11:52 am

    @Betty Cracker: If you want Obama voters you’d best keep a civil tongue. People are pretty devoted.

  175. 175.

    Kay

    August 1, 2019 at 11:58 am

    @L85NJGT:

    I’m really disappointed in both Warren and Harris for going along with it. Come on- this was dumb! They have a great thing- Medicare- and they somehow managed to turn it into taking something away from people? I don’t even know how you do that without trying.

    “Let’s not pick the popular ‘Medicare for those who want it’ policy but instead pick this punishing, scary policy”. They have to back off it, Warren and Sanders. They can back off it now or later but they have to do it, because it’s idiotic. They created this mess for themselves by following fucking Bernie off a cliff. Let’s see how good they are at getting out of it.

  176. 176.

    joel hanes

    August 1, 2019 at 12:22 pm

    @Nicole:

    it’s infuriating to see “Employer Provided Health Care” being flung around like it’s a free gift that some (deserving) folk get

    I suspect that many voters see it that way (even though they must now share the cost of premiums), and are terrified of losing it.

  177. 177.

    Ksmiami

    August 1, 2019 at 12:26 pm

    @Cacti: ding ding ding. I’m sorry the candidates that went after Obama’s record last night (not that he was perfect) disqualified themselves- including Harris

  178. 178.

    lurker dean

    August 1, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    @Nelle: no advice but good luck. your daughter has a good heart, i hope it all works out with the original owner. hopefully the owner isn’t shady and is just overwhelmed, and can find housing for the dogs before the deadline. at least she gave your daughter a real contact number, which hopefully suggests that she really loves her dogs and will try her best to figure out something. of course it’s smart for your daughter to have something in place just in case.

  179. 179.

    StringOnAStick

    August 1, 2019 at 1:01 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Hmm. I had two knee replacements this year, but at different times. Both times I went home that day. Knee replacements without complications are outpatient surgery now, so I wonder why a wrist plating and pining isn’t?

  180. 180.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 1, 2019 at 6:23 pm

    Moderate Dems I follow on Facebook are chortling about how Kamala Harris’s hypocrisy has been laid bare, and I don’t even know what they’re talking about though I assume it’s supposed to be obvious.

    (The irritating leftier-than-thous are on Twitter, the irritating moderater-than-thous are on Facebook)

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