Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Usually wrong but never in doubt

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

John Fetterman: Too Manly for Pennsylvania.  Paid for by the Oz for Senator campaign.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

The GOP couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

I really should read my own blog.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / DNC Debate Reviews: Seems Like Elizabeth Warren Had A Good One

DNC Debate Reviews: Seems Like Elizabeth Warren Had A Good One

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Goddess forgive me, but this clip reminded me that Warren started her career as a special-ed teacher. Imagine her working to convince an agitated six-foot-something adolescent with development delays that there were more socially acceptable methods of self-calming than fondling his genitals in the classroom. Then imagine the current Oval Office Occupant trying his patented hulk-and-snort technique during a debate with her…

Another strong argument for Warren — the FoxBots hate hate HATE her!

Reader Interactions

156Comments

  1. 1.

    Nicole

    This is nice to read. Yesterday I commented that I could see the effects of Russian propaganda on my leftie FB friends by reading their posts and sure enough, one of the new agey ones was ALL ABOUT Williamson and Gabbard yesterday. Comforting to remember that’s not all Democratic voters.

    The big thing I took from FB patrolling yesterday though, is that a lot of people aren’t paying any attention at all yet.

  2. 2.

    JMG

    The Cohen tweet is the tell. Centrist/moderate liberal white male pundits will massacre Warren for her “radical” proposals such as health care for all and eliminating crushing debt on American young people. She is feared by capital and they are employed by it.

  3. 3.

    Anthony K

    Christ but Tweety’s a moron.
    “This account will give you a guaranteed return of 5%. You will make money.”
    “But it will cost me the $20 I have in my pocket, right?”
    “But you’ll make more money in the long run.”
    “But what about my $20?”
    “You’ll get it back, and more as well.”
    “Why aren’t you answering my question? Is this $20 bill going to come out of my pocket?”

  4. 4.

    Yarrow

    I love Elizabeth Warren but I still prefer her to be in the Senate. I would love to see her as Majority Leader. She did have a great debate.

  5. 5.

    low-tech cyclist

    @Yarrow:

    I love Elizabeth Warren but I still prefer her to be in the Senate. I would love to see her as Majority Leader. She did have a great debate.

    For me, the question comes down to, “who else instead?” As nominee, then as President.

    I think Biden and Sanders would be bad in both roles. It’s possible that Harris might be a better nominee and/or President, but I think she still needs to prove that. Beto and Buttigieg are still lightweights.

    So it’s either Warren, Harris, or possibly one of the 1%ers if one of them can gain traction.

    ETA: I should mention that I’m totally a Warren fanboy, just so you know my biases.

  7. 7.

    The Moar You Know

    I would love to see her as Majority Leader.

    @Yarrow: So would I. Schumer will be a disaster. I guess more of a disaster, maybe. He does OK as long as Nancy is there to tell him what to do.

    I’m not worried about either coming to pass as it seems that Dems have thrown in the towel on even trying to flip the Senate this cycle. Please, please somebody prove me wrong.

  8. 8.

    Betty Cracker

    @Major Major Major Major: I like Warren’s plan to rebuild the State Department. Sanders put out some boilerplate international solidarity stuff. Haven’t read much about the other candidates’ FP.

  9. 9.

    HinTN

    @The Moar You Know:

    it seems that Dems have thrown in the towel on even trying to flip the Senate this cycle

    Just because some “viable prospects” are running vanity campaigns does not mean Dems have given up on THE BEST of the three vulnerability cycles in the Senate. It’s early and the outrage is building. Breathe!!!

  10. 10.

    James E Powell

    @Yarrow:

    I love Elizabeth Warren but I still prefer her to be in the Senate.

    I like the idea of Elizabeth Warren, senator forever, but we have to back whoever is going to beat Trump. We also need the senate and the house and the governors and the state legislatures, for sure. But if we don’t beat Trump we are effed beyond repair.

    Our nominee is going to emerge from a brutal process. Even if all the Democratic candidates treat each other with respect, their supporters will not, the press/media will not, and the Republicans will not.

    That last is going to be important because there are no rules anymore. We are going to be appalled, but we should not be surprised.

  11. 11.

    David C Benton

    Warren is definitely my first choice. She is extremely smart, I agree with almost all her policies, and she is truly an expert when it comes to financial matters. But I worry about her debating Trump. Not because of any knowledge issue since Trump came off as ignorant buffoon against HRC and probably is less articulate now, but her style is pretty low key and I just wonder if she will be able to put him in his place effectively. I think Harris is more suited to debate Trump. She’s also very smart, very quick on her feet, and I think Trump would dread having debate a WOC who he knows deep down is much smarter than he is.

  12. 12.

    Baud

    It’ll be interesting when all the top people are on the same stage.

    Biden’s one purpose is to take Bernie out. Hopefully he will rise to the occasion.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    There were some hot takes on Tuesday about whether Warren “punched down” to Delaney, but the Harris/Gabbard fracas puts the Warren thing in a better light. If the options are “ignore the 1 percenter” or “shoot the 1 percenter out of the airlock,” option 2 seems stronger.

    Although Harris underperformed generally, this critique is off. Delaney challenged Warren on policy. Tulsi attacked Harris’s background as California AG. Not the same situation.

  14. 14.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @The Moar You Know: I hope that Hickenlooper shifts to the Colorado Senate race soonest. Gardner is vulnerable and Hickenlooper has already won two statewide races. The same goes for Bullock.

  15. 15.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    I think Warren has a lot of vulnerabilities – on student loan forgiveness and MFA – and they will come back to haunt her. But she was very impressive at deflecting and dodging attacks and pushing back on them – with a switchblade not a sledgehammer

    Sounds like she has what it takes to take on Trump.

  16. 16.

    SFAW

    @Yarrow:

    I love Elizabeth Warren but I still prefer her to be in the Senate. I would love to see her as Majority Leader. She did have a great debate.

    I love her as my senior Senator, but her “span of influence” as President would be significantly multiplied — even IF the Dems regain control of the Senate and she became Majority Leader. One of the ways I look at it is this: outside of Moscow Mitch — about whom we will hear for a long time, because of his ongoing efforts to destroy American democracy — how many Majority Leaders get discussed years later, in the context of “Yeah, that Senator X was something. I can’t believe how much better (s)he made things”? And the number of non-Leaders discussed is even fewer/less — unless they were involved in something egregious, such as Charles Sumner. Teddy Kennedy might be an exception — might be.

    So “President Warren” sounds pretty damn good to me, even with Traitor Turtle still being Majority Cheater.

    ETA: And although Warren “made her bones” on financial matters, I have little doubt she will be able to master foreign policy, and non-financial domestic policy.

  17. 17.

    James E Powell

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I’d really love to hear some detailed foreign policy ideas from anybody right now. Squabbling about things McConnell will kill is getting old.

    Squabbling about any policy matters is a waste of time. And, no disrespect, but I can’t think of anything less likely to be helpful than detailed foreign policy ideas. Every Democrats’ answer to every question about foreign policy should just be “We are going to work very hard to repair the damage done by Trump and we are going to re-establish good relations with all our allies.”

  18. 18.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I despise Tweety as much as anyone, but the Bernie-esque hand-waving away of the question about tax increases is dumb politics. People don’t react coolly and analytically to taxes.

    As I said yesterday, if anyone can win the electoral college with that platform, it’s Warren– I am increasingly impressed with her retail skills– but it’s tossing an anvil to people like Doug Jones and Mark Kelly.

  19. 19.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Betty Cracker: yeah, that’s also a critical one. Warren gets the need for executive action to get our normal government back in a way the others don’t seem to. Knowing somebody’s legislative preferences is all well and good but doesn’t tell me much about what they’d actually do in their first term.

    On the executive front she’s better than the others (housing, industrial policy), even if somewhat of a mixed bag elsewhere (monetary policy, trade); at least you know where she stands.

    But I couldn’t tell you what any of the candidates would do if China threatened Taiwan.

  20. 20.

    SFAW

    @James E Powell:

    Every Democrats’ answer to every question about foreign policy should just be “We are going to work very hard to repair the damage done by Trump and we are going to re-establish good relations with all our allies.”

    This response should be forwarded to the Warren and Harris campaigns. The rest of them, too, of course.

    Except Bernie and Tulsi. Fuckem

  23. 23.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh, I disagree. She wouldn’t accept his bullshit framing and stuck with the underlying truth of COST. Brilliant example of how to refuse to let Tweety and the rest dictate false terms of engagement.

  24. 24.

    Major Major Major Major

    @James E Powell: foreign policy is one of the few areas where the president will be able to implement their agenda in the first 2-4 years. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask for details beyond “not what trump did.”

    ETA broad strikes at the very minimum. I know what Sanders would do. I can probably tell you what Biden would do. I don’t know what the candidates I actually want to support would do. This is a problem for me.

  25. 25.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: Agreed! Hoping very much that the next stage of qualification at least narrows it down to 10, taking out Gabbard and Williamson along with the rest of the no-hopers.

    When you say Biden’s chief purpose is to take Bernie out, I assume you mean that’s his one purpose as far as those of us in the peanut gallery are concerned rather than that’s the mission Biden set out for himself, correct? Considering that Sanders was the front runner prior to Biden’s entry, mission sorta accomplished. At least it curbed the production of premature but potentially self-fulfilling prophecies about Sanders’ takeover of the party.

    Now that Biden has taken Sanders down from that peg, maybe the mission of booting Sanders falls to Warren, since they’re allegedly competing for a similar group of voters.

  29. 29.

    Doug

    Every Democrats’ answer to every question about foreign policy should just be “We are going to work very hard to repair the damage done by Trump and we are going to re-establish good relations with all our allies.”

    So very much this.

  31. 31.

    Ocotillo

    Ugh, Delaney going on Fox is just pathetic. I actually liked the guy and knew he had zero chance because of name ID and he would be superior to Orange fart cloud.

    He showed his naivete though by running to Fox. Of course, those idiots are going to be nice to him because they hope to create division and problems for whoever the nominee is so, no they are not reasonable journalists giving him a platform for a conversation about his stand on the issues.

    If he thinks he is going to get any never-Trumpers that may have been watching he is wrong there too, never-Trumpers are republicans, they would support William Weld.

    Big fail Delaney, get out now.

  32. 32.

    Groucho48

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Tweety was desperately trying to get her to say taxes would go up as he knows that a clip of him getting her to say that would lead every article on the race for a month. It would also damage her campaign. It’s also a stupid right wing talking point as, overall, people would pay less and more would be covered.

  33. 33.

    Ella in New Mexico

    “shoot the 1 percenter out of the airlock,”

    OMG what a fantastic, GIF-inspiring mental image. Sending this to Chunk et.al., for future use each and every time we boost another Marianne or Tulsi into the void

  34. 34.

    geg6

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t think she was hand waving the question away. I think she was hand waving Tweety away because he wouldn’t let her explain how it would save them money. He’s such an ass.
    He asks a question, interrupts the person answering every time they manage to get a couple of words out of their mouths and then freaks out for weeks on end about how their plan isn’t workable. How the fuck would he know? He never let them answer.

  35. 35.

    trollhattan

    Took a few days away to go backpacking so missed the whole debate thing, plus whatever the hell trump was screwing up.

    How nice it was.

    Go Liz! Still my #1 and pulling further away. And Tweety can go fuck himself–that was utterly disrespectful and an attempt to bully her into his preconceived “correct” answer. As if he’s an expert. It’s like me arguing with the surgeon who’s about to repair my broken leg, that he hasn’t really explored why I’m getting bad gas mileage recently.

  37. 37.

    Kay

    Julie Davis
    @juliehdavis
    ·56m
    Months after Democrats took control of the House with the most diverse class ever, the same identity politics
    that swept them to power has sparked an internal feud over race and diversity in the top echelons of their campaign arm

    The NYTimes has the worst political coverage in the country, and it’s not close. To announce like this that the Democrats were “swept to power” in ’18 because of “identity politics” is a partisan opinion.
    They function as an outlet that promotes Donald Trump’s views of the Democratic Party and tens of millions of Democratic voters. That they will cover the next election, LEAD coverage of it, is a damn shame. I hope voters can get past them and have some shot at forming their own opinion.
    They’re worse than they were in ’16. Now they’re actually invested in Trump.

  39. 39.

    Nicole

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    People don’t react coolly and analytically to taxes.

    True, but that’s due to FOX and GOP propaganda over the past several decades. Anyone short of the wealthy needs to think of their lives as “money in, money out,” not, “Taxes vs. everything else.” Warren was trying to get that across to Tweety, by bringing it back to “costs,” but he kept cutting her off. But at some point we have to stop accepting GOP framing of issues.

  40. 40.

    Chyron HR

    @SFAW:

    This response should be forwarded to the Warren and Harris campaigns. The rest of them, too, of course.

    Except Bernie and Tulsi. Fuckem

    That’s okay, Bernie’s foreign policy position is that he stayed home sick the day that they voted on the AUMF and Tulsi’s is that she proudly signed up to kill Iraqis.

  41. 41.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker:

    I assume you mean that’s his one purpose as far as those of us in the peanut gallery are concerned rather than that’s the mission Biden set out for himself, correct?

    Of course. I only care about what we want.

  42. 42.

    catclub

    @HinTN: Beto could easily be gone from the Pres race early enough to run for senate. That would suck
    a lot of GOP money to defending Texas.

  43. 43.

    Haroldo

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    As I said yesterday, if anyone can win the electoral college with that platform, it’s Warren– I am increasingly impressed with her retail skills– but it’s tossing an anvil to people like Doug Jones and Mark Kelly.

    I am not sure what you are proposing, if anything. Bog standard middle-of-the-road centrist stuff IMO is what has prevented the Democratic Party and this country from progressing. As I grow older, I’ve become much more incrementalist, but Repub-lite ain’t going cut it.

    It could be that I’m misunderstanding you, but it will take some deft, deft policy work not to sink some right-of-center Dems. In this climate, I think that’s going to happen no matter what.

  44. 44.

    MJS

    I like Warren for a lot of reasons, including this fantasy exchange during a debate with Trump:

    DT – Elizabeth took a blood test to prove she’s part Native American

    EW – Yes, I did. Did you take a blood test after having unprotected sex with a porn star?

    (Not how Trump speaks, I know)

  45. 45.

    Baud

    @geg6:

    I don’t think she was hand waving the question away. I think she was hand waving Tweety away

    Less hand waving. More knee-to-the-groining.

  46. 46.

    Haroldo

    @Kay:

    They function as an outlet that promotes Donald Trump’s views of the Democratic Party and tens of millions of Democratic voters.

    Precisely this. Well put.

  47. 47.

    Kay

    They’re not covering an election. They’re producing fake social science editorial content. Just like their op ed page.

    I think they think “covering an election” is beneath them, and the narrative-setting adds value and makes it a premium product.

  48. 48.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Haroldo: As I grow older, I’ve become much more incrementalist, but Repub-lite ain’t going cut it.

    You think Harris’s and Biden’s plans are “Republican lite”?

    it will take some deft, deft policy work not to sink some right-of-center Dems

    I can’t even begin to figure out what you’re trying say there.

  49. 49.

    germy

    @MJS: I think the porn star would be more at risk than trump. It would be advisable for the lady to have herself tested after an encounter with epstein’s friend.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    I just can’t believe there are +/- a million people out there who believe Chris Matthews is the voice of the middle class.

    I like that Warren won’t accept his priority as the priority of the electorate. That’s a bad assumption and she doesn’t have to give him that, and she wouldn’t.

  52. 52.

    germy

    trump thinks Warren needed a “blood test” for an ancestry test?

    Maybe he’ll learn about cheek swabs after he’s finally taken into custody.

  54. 54.

    Haroldo

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You think Harris’s and Biden’s plans are “Republican lite”?

    Biden’s, probably. It’s unclear to me you were championing either of them, however.

    I can’t even begin to figure out what you’re trying say there.

    It means you want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want to save the right-of-center Dems (quite laudatory and useful) without pushing on the status quo. Again, I may have misunderstood what you want; it’s not clear.

  56. 56.

    Amir Khalid

    @germy:
    If I recall correctly*, the common practice among the talent in the adult-entertainment industry is to get regular STD testing. You need a clean bill of health or the other actors won’t risk working with you.

    *Not from personal experience. I read it somewhere.

    ETA: I see catclub got there first.

  58. 58.

    SFAW

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I don’t know what the candidates I actually want to support would do. This is a problem for me.

    Based on zero research — hey, I wouldn’t be a jackal had I done any — I’m guessing that Warren’s FP would be similar to the Obama Doctrine: “Don’t do stupid shit.” That said: I expect she’s already thought about specific situations — what to do about NK, the JCPOA — but will people really care before the primaries are over? Outside of the “inside baseball” crowd, that is.

  59. 59.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: raising taxes on the rich or corporations or a transaction tax is winning politics. raising taxes on the middle class is dicey. it’s too easy for the corporate media to distort and demagogue. The prospect of raising payroll taxes is what killed Vermont’s attempt to pass single payer.

  61. 61.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Haroldo: a public option is “Republican lite? expanding tax subsidies is “Republican lite”? Is Dwight Eisenhower your baseline Republican?

    You want to save the right-of-center Dems (quite laudatory and useful) without pushing on the status quo

    Mitch McConnell as Majority Leader is the “status quo” I want to push on. President Trump is the “status quo” I want to push on.

  63. 63.

    SFAW

    @germy:

    Meanwhile, trump was probably last tested in 1985.

    “I totally aced that test! I had the BEST VD! Huuuge VD! All the doctors said they had never seen anything like it!”

  65. 65.

    Kay

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I’m in a Lake Michigan resort town right now. I come here a lot. There’s a small “harbor” lake that goes to a deep, short channel and then to Lake Michigan. The east side of the town is less valuable property and the west side is more valuable, because it’s lakefront and gorgeous. It’s all pretty really, but the fancy stuff is over a road bridge. The bridge has been under a foot of water since I was here in May. The people with the million dollar properties have to detour 15 miles on a state road to get back and forth to town. That whole stretch of road is going to have to be elevated. It’s underwater longer and longer every year.

  66. 66.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Chyron HR: it’s an article of faith on rose twitter that nothing has been accomplished since 1936. and they constantly use the phrase “status quo” incorrectly.

  67. 67.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    Just have David Brooks and Dowd and Bruni “cover” elections. Meld the whole political operation into half assed “social” analysis.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    This is my personal thing, but I noticed there were two candidates who listen to the other candidates when they talk. Those two are…Warren and Biden. Warren also (mostly) stays within her time and doesn’t interrupt.

  69. 69.

    SFAW

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    it’s an article of faith on rose twitter that nothing has been accomplished since 1936.

    Well, considering all the protections (etc.) that the Traitor-in-Chief has rolled back, with Traitor Turtle’s help (or vice versa), I’m not sure that we’re not back there. [I’m conveniently ignoring the gains won during the Civil Rights era, in order to make a shitty joke.]

  70. 70.

    MomSense

    I still say Hillary is the GOAT debater, and I say that as an Obot. I honestly don’t think any of our current candidates have her debating chops. I’m also not sure how much debates really matter.

  72. 72.

    Brachiator

    I didn’t watch these debates, but I’ve heard that Warren and Sanders were very friendly towards one another. The Bernie Bunch seem to like this and also seem, for now, to accept Warren as their kind of progressive. I suspect, though, that they will turn on her if Bernie starts to fade.

    That said, it’s good to see that Warren is doing well. We will see if this is reflected in upcoming polls.

  74. 74.

    low-tech cyclist

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh, I disagree. She wouldn’t accept his bullshit framing and stuck with the underlying truth of COST. Brilliant example of how to refuse to let Tweety and the rest dictate false terms of engagement.

    The other thing is, Tweety wouldn’t let her get more than a few words out before talking over her. It doesn’t matter what they were talking about, or who had the right framing. At least in this case, fuck all that shit with a chainsaw. She needed to stand up to him, pure and simple, and that’s what she did.

    A woman in politics can’t let some talking head roll over her like that, and she refused to let him. She passed the test.

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MomSense: Even with the “winnowing” allegedly going on, I saw a clip on TV this morning that we’re still going to have at least eight candidates on the stage in September, maybe even Woo-Woo Williamson and Comrade Tulsi Vladmirovna* Gabbard. I love ya Amy Klobuchar, but it ain’t gonna happen. I like you, Beto, but go home.

    (apologies to Dame Gogol if I spelled that wrong)

  77. 77.

    Haroldo

    @Chyron HR:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I can’t even begin to figure out what you’re trying say there.

    “Bernie or we’ll destroy the country,” same as last time.

    If you are accusing me of being a Berner, a hardy ‘fuck you’. If not, ‘fuck you’ withdrawn. (It’s a far too employed retort in this blog.) Worked for, contributed to Dems for a long time.

    I am afraid of a fascist takeover of this country. I view McConnell and Murdoch as the primary reasons this country is in the trouble it’s in.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Mitch McConnell as Majority Leader is the “status quo” I want to push on. President Trump is the “status quo” I want to push on.

    You and me both. It’s how that’s accomplished is the question.

  78. 78.

    Major Major Major Major

    @SFAW:

    but will people really care before the primaries are over? Outside of the “inside baseball” crowd, that is.

    All I’m saying is that *I* care.

    @MomSense: IIRC general election debates don’t matter much (polls regress to the mean not long after). But primary debates can make or break a candidate.

  79. 79.

    Kay

    @SFAW:

    I loathe Delaney. It’s not his positions. It’s “I am tired of being yelled at by men”. I want him to stop yelling at me. I also loathe DeBlasio for this.

  81. 81.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: I only follow NYC politics to the extent the headlines are inescapable on the internet, but it seems to me if DeBlasio were trying to prove that all his critics are right, making a no-hope, vanity run for President is about the best thing he could do.

    ETA @Major Major Major Major: I sympathize with Perez in that he was trying to forestall all the rose-twitter conspiracy theorizing around the dread… D.N.C! (dramatic squirrel gif and music here”), and who the hell could foresee the flood arrogant white mediocrities

  82. 82.

    Cheryl Rofer

    I’ll strongly agree with O. Felix Culpa on Warren’s handling of Tweetie. He wanted an “It will raise taxes” gotcha, never mind what it will do to people’s total budgets not to have to pay premiums, co-pays, and all the ways the insurance industry finds to squeeze money out of us. It’s bullshit framing.

    The media take their talking points from the Republicans – that was clear in this week’s debates. Cory Booker came across well because he wouldn’t accept their frame.

    More of this, please!

  86. 86.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Greg Sargent has a good column on framing today. Ignore the headline – it has little to do with the content.

    Here’s the bottom line: Big news organizations often seem to editorially privilege the difficulties and even the feelings of Midwestern whites. I can’t cite a study that proves this. But you see it constantly.

    The genre of newspaper writing that sends reporters into diners and dives down the road from rusting factories to find out what Trump voters think of whatever just happened has literally become the stuff of parody, as Alexandra Petri demonstrates well.

    When Trump attacked four nonwhite congresswomen, telling the country they aren’t really part of the American nation, one news organization sent reporters out to discover what Midwestern white Trump voters thought about it. No, really.

    This lopsidedness has seeped into coverage of the Democratic primaries. The candidates are proposing agendas to address structural racism and mitigate the human toll being inflicted on immigrant communities. This is constantly described as potentially alienating to Trump country — Midwestern white voters.

  87. 87.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Since the debates don’t really tell us anything substantive about the candidates, I am looking at them for style points. On that front, Booker won the last debate and I think Harris had the best average over the two. Warren is great on paper and on substance, but, at least to me, her appeal is purely intellectual. She doesn’t come off as inspiring to me in the way that Harris and Booker can. As a result, I am in Harris’s camp until and unless someone can move me.

  88. 88.

    Kay

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I defended him! I figured the NYTimes hates him (true) and that’s enough for me to listen. Then he screamed at me for 5 minutes and I was ready to strangle him. Why are they like this? Who finds this appealing? I literally sit back in my chair, like, whoa, turn it down. I have Trump bellowing on one side and them bellowing on the other- they must stop.

  90. 90.

    low-tech cyclist

    @Betty Cracker:

    @Kay: I went and yelled at her on Twitter. Jesus, this is fucking stupid.

    It probably won’t do any good, but thank you for doing it anyway.

  91. 91.

    germy

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I remember the Robert Benchley anecdote: he was at a fancy dinner party, and a rather stern dowager was asked if she knew a particular saloon (that apparently had a bad reputation). “I know of it,” she replied.

    It became a running joke for Benchley and his friends: “I know of it.”

  92. 92.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    Why are they like this? Who finds this appealing?

    Insecure white guys who have a need to feel superior to women or minorities (or both)? Just spitballing here.

  93. 93.

    Brachiator

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    raising taxes on the rich or corporations or a transaction tax is winning politics. raising taxes on the middle class is dicey.

    The Republcans totally excluded the Democrats and rewrote the tax code to benefit the wealthy. Individual, Corporate, Estate and Trust, all revised to favor investment and business income over wage income. The Democrats will have to try to undo this, and it a bigger issue than simply raising taxes on the rich.

    But to your other point, I agree that raising taxes on the middle class is dicey. Some left leaning people seem to think that the middle class will accept higher taxes in exchange for all the supposedly wonderful programs that they will get in return, but I have doubts about this. The GOP, of course, will ignore the merit of any program and focus solely on any potential tax increase.

  95. 95.

    catclub

    @Cheryl Rofer: My approach would be “People like Medicare because they get more for their healthcare dollar than they would with private insurance” and leave taxes out of the answer.

  96. 96.

    Jinchi

    @Brachiator:

    Warren and Sanders were very friendly towards one another.

    I think they were both smart in a debate that seemed clearly orchestrated by the moderators to start fistfights between candidates and also to create a narrative of a Democratic moderate/leftwing rift. Sanders and Warren are not running against one another (yet). They are running to establish themselves as credible, electable candidates and their ideologies as reasonable solutions to America’s problems.

  97. 97.

    catclub

    @Brachiator: My catchphrase will be “For republicans, fiscal responsibility is cutting medicare for everyone, and lowering taxes on the rich.”

  99. 99.

    Brachiator

    @Jinchi:

    They are running to establish themselves as credible, electable candidates and their ideologies as reasonable solutions to America’s problems.

    Makes sense.

    I have to admit, though, that I think that Sanders is a fraud. But his cult absolutely loves him.

    I will also note that I would vote for Sanders over Trump any day of the week.

  101. 101.

    jl

    Matthews usually infuriates me, but by the end of that clip I was laughing. Matthews was trying for a ‘so, you won’t answer the question’ gotcha.
    But to pull that off you need a question that is interesting, and back up why it is important to answer. Whether you do that honestly or dishonestly is another question, but you have to do it.
    All I got to say is ‘Matthews, I’ve seen Chris Wallace and Chris Cuomo, you ain’t know Wallace and you ain’t no Cuomo”

    Also, a lot of people of all descriptions are smarter, quicker, and more well informed than Matthews, but when he runs into adult women who are smarter, quicker, more informed, than he is, he seems to have some special problems. Since, IMHO, among prominent Democratic candidates, save for maybe Buttigieg and Castro, all the women are more impressive in debate than the men, will be interesting to see how Matthews deals with that. Let’s see whether he can get through the primaries without flipping out on camera.

  103. 103.

    patrick II

    There were some hot takes on Tuesday about whether Warren “punched down” to Delaney,

    I don’t see how responding to a challenge from a multi-millionaire running for president could be considered “punching down”. Unless they were talking about her picking on the slow guy.

  107. 107.

    Brachiator

    @germy:
    One thing to note

    A year ago, then-California Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill to eliminate cash bail in the state starting in October 2019, in favor of a risk assessment system and non-monetary conditions of release.

    The California law was put on hold and there will be a ballot measure to overturn this law.

    Opponents, including some social justice groups, argue the new law gives judges too much power to decide who should be released and will allow dangerous people to go free.

    There were lots of questions about the fairness and adequacy of risk assessment systems.

  108. 108.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @germy – I would like to see an actual interview where someone asks some questions about Kamala Harris days as a prosecutor; mostly to get it out on the table in her own words so there’s less of a chance of a “gotcha” later by the Republicans.

    HOWEVER, I would really love for someone in media to ask Tulsi about her homophobic past and involvement in a cult…

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/11/tulsi-gabbard-is-not-who-you-think-she-is.html

    This is especially telling in my view:

    “Gabbard replied to a request for comment on her father’s connections with cult leader Chris Butler (more below) in 2004 with an oddly worded email accusing Honolulu Magazine of a homosexual conspiratorial attempt to discredit her father.

    “I smell a skunk,” [Gabbard] wrote. “It’s clear to me that you’re acting as a conduit for The Honolulu Weekly and other homosexual extremist supporters of Ed Case.” ”

    Tulsi is a big Oh Hell No for me

  109. 109.

    The Moar You Know

    Some left leaning people seem to think that the middle class will accept higher taxes in exchange for all the supposedly wonderful programs that they will get in return, but I have doubts about this.

    @Brachiator: They will not. Trump’s “tax cuts” were not tax cuts for anyone save the 1%. Mine more than doubled. I would prefer not to have them raised further. Many in the middle class got the same increase – to fund the cuts for the big money guys – and are not going to be real motivated to vote for more.

  110. 110.

    jl

    @MomSense: ” There’s a rumor they have a non-aggression pact. ”

    I don’t think they have a conscious pact, explicit or implicit.

    I think it’s a combo of three reasons, the first coincidence and the second and third conscious. First is that, IMHO, neither one like to go on the attack against another individual candidate, particularly personal or destructive attacks. And they are reluctant to attack at all unless provoked.

    The second is, if their campaign staffs have done their homework, there is good evidence that they are not mainly competing against each other for support, but rather they are attracting different kinds of center-left types. The really big swings in the polls over time have not been between Warren and Sanders but between both of them and different types of more centrist types. And third, Biden wasn’t there the first night, and going after the other centrists was the best way to get at Biden, indirectly.

    I think it will stay that way unless and until, the two of them are left in a field of just four or five people. Then would be the time for them to start doing some direct compare and contrast against the other one. But I don’t think either will do destructive or personal attacks. So I won’t hold my breath for a Rubio style ‘Bernie’s got little hands’ joke.

  113. 113.

    Brachiator

    @The Moar You Know:

    Trump’s “tax cuts” were not tax cuts for anyone save the 1%.

    This is simply not true. Hell, there were a considerable number of lower income people who didn’t even have to file a tax return because of the increased standard deduction.

    The bulk of the tax cuts went to the wealthy, but other income levels saw a tax reduction. I will even bet that a number of Balloon Juice people benefited from the new Qualified Business Income Deduction.

  114. 114.

    The Moar You Know

    As a non-itemizer, my taxes went down considerably.

    @Major Major Major Major: My wife’s a public school teacher, so we routinely itemized all her classroom expenses that the district couldn’t or wouldn’t cover. Now we can’t, but those expenses aren’t going away. That tax cut law fucked every teacher in the entire United States, and that was deliberate.

    They got rid of itemization and – specifically – disallowed all classroom expenses by teachers. Very targeted tax increase. We are also blue-state homeowners, but have been so for long enough that the whole state/property tax disallowal thing doesn’t come into play for us. But it did for most of the people in SoCal who have mortgages. Those folks are not going to sign off on any tax increases, they’re mad as hell about the mammoth one they just got hit with.

  116. 116.

    Jinchi

    @MomSense:

    There’s a rumor they have a non-aggression pact.

    That would be smart. I don’t think both of them will be in contention in 6 months, one or the other will be the liberal standard bearer. If that’s true they will never need to attack one another. Getting them to fight one another would be a coup for the moderates, probably aiding Biden.

  117. 117.

    James E Powell

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You summed up where I’m at right now. I may get flamed for saying this, but the only way Warren wins the White House is if the press/media decide they want her there and give her the kind of rosy-toned coverage and protection from negatives that they gave to George W Bush. Or if the press/media decide that it’s time for Trump to go and they cover him and his administration as if they were Clintons. I don’t see either of those two things happening.

    To say that American voters are ignorant and easily swayed by ridiculous things is neither kind nor helpful, but I’d argue that all the voters who are not have already decided whether they are going to vote for Trump in 2020. We need a candidate whose charisma and physical appearance (sorry, sad but true) will appeal to that group of Americans whose votes have no relationship with policies.

  118. 118.

    PJ

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: DeBlasio stopped wanting to be mayor about two years into his first term. I have been baffled trying to figure out why he is running now, but I know that he went to Iowa in 2016 to “campaign for Hillary”, literally knocking on voters’ doors to introduce himself. The only reason I could figure it then was that he was going to run for President someday, and that day is now.

    It’s true that his political life is basically at an end in New York state unless Schumer or Gillibrand retire (and as much as I hate Cuomo, I don’t see DeBlasio defeating him for Governor, though that one would come down to which one the voters hate least), and I don’t see him winning in a statewide primary against other up and comers for those seats (he is unpopular in NYC, and I don’t imagine he inspires any enthusiasm outside the city). So maybe he is hoping to get a Cabinet position out of this. But I think the answer is that he is well and truly delusional about his political skills and his potential popularity.

  119. 119.

    Jinchi

    @germy:

    The middle class tax cut will expire.

    The upper class tax cuts are permanent.

    Purposefully. It allows Republicans to offer a “new” tax cut every few years. The middle class gets the tax cut that just expired, and the taxes on the upper class keep getting ratched down cycle after cycle.

  120. 120.

    Major Major Major Major

    @The Moar You Know: sure, but the actual majority of Americans, who for the most part do not own houses in California, saw a lower tax burden, is all.

    The scheduled expiration of the non-1% tax cuts, on the other hand, is a huge problem, politically at least. Republicans always pull that stunt. (as germy notes)

  121. 121.

    Brachiator

    @germy:

    The middle class tax cut will expire.

    The upper class tax cuts are permanent.

    Nothing is permanent in tax law.

    Also, technically the individual tax provisions will expire after 2025, and the corporate tax provisions are “permanent.”

  122. 122.

    PJ

    @James E Powell: You may be right about the reasons why Americans vote for someone, but, as a Democrat, I vote for the person whose policies are most in line with what I want to see happen in this country and who would be most effective at making them happen. That person happens to be Elizabeth Warren, and, while I remain open, nothing from another candidate has made me change my mind.

  123. 123.

    catclub

    @Brachiator: @Major Major Major Major:

    As a non-itemizer, my taxes went down considerably.

    Itemize every other year and your taxes go down a little bit more. $22k std deduction, off year, $27k ( for me) on itemized deduction year,
    if you can manage it.

    Screwing the teachers on deductibility of their expenses is lousy.
    as to what goes away in 2026, my understanding was that the Corporate tax cuts stay, but the individual cuts go.

    QBI _ Qualified Business Income is a huge boon to self-employed. Just remember, it is there because it applies to Trump.

  124. 124.

    WhatsMyNym

    @Kay:

    The bridge has been under a foot of water since I was here in May.

    That’s really odd – the Lake Michigan/Huron basin fluctuates yearly and that road would have been under water in 1986 and 1997 if it had been built yet. The IN DNR has the historical records.
    I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, and the complaints went from low water levels to high water levels and back again.

  125. 125.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @The Moar You Know: Disallowing the deduction of unreimbursed employee expenses affect people other than teachers. OTR truckers who are not self-employed are screwed. Basically, they screwed any employee whose job traditionally has had a lot of out of pocket expenses. This and the $10K limit on state and local taxes are probably the biggest fuck yous to comfortably middle class taxpayers.

  126. 126.

    James E Powell

    @The Moar You Know:

    But it did for most of the people in SoCal who have mortgages. Those folks are not going to sign off on any tax increases, they’re mad as hell about the mammoth one they just got hit with.

    My sister & her husband are in that category. She is a solid D voter, but it disturbed me that she was not aware that she was writing a check to the IRS this year because of Trump’s tax cuts. The press/media and far too many people treat all tax cuts as unmitigated good things that have no negative consequences. I despair of a solution to this.

  128. 128.

    James E Powell

    @PJ:

    My point is that the people who will decide the winner in 2020 are nothing like you or like anyone else who reads and comments here.

  129. 129.

    Brachiator

    @The Moar You Know:

    They got rid of itemization and – specifically – disallowed all classroom expenses by teachers. Very targeted tax increase.

    The new tax law disallowed miscellaneous itemized deductions for people who are employees. A lot of people were screaming, including truckers, people who paid a lot in union dues and work clothes. In fact, I would say that people in unions in blue states were targeted more than just teachers.

    And again, this is the biggie, self-employed people are given preference over wage earners.

    Truckers who were employees lost all their deductions. Self-employed truckers kept the equivalent deductions.

  130. 130.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @PJ: The last two Dems who won the EC were Obama and Bill Clinton. As far as policies go, if we don’t take the Senate and keep the house, the specifics of anyone’s policies won’t matter. If we do win both, can you imagine a Dem President vetoing any kind of progressive legislation passed by Congress?

  131. 131.

    J R in WV

    @low-tech cyclist:

    ETA: I should mention that I’m totally a Warren fanboy, just so you know my biases.

    On Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday I’m for Harris. On Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday, I’m for Warren. So half the week for one, the other half for the other one. I’m not a weight lifter, though! ;-)

  132. 132.

    catclub

    @Brachiator:

    Truckers who were employees lost all their deductions. Self-employed truckers kept the equivalent deductions.

    yeah, that is really crappy.

  133. 133.

    Omnes Omnibus

    I am getting the feeling that this blog might well end up being seen as a Warren blog. AL seems to be doing her best on that front.

  134. 134.

    Brachiator

    @James E Powell:

    The press/media and far too many people treat all tax cuts as unmitigated good things that have no negative consequences. I despair of a solution to this.

    The media were actually pretty fair and accurate about the impact of the new tax law. But you simply could not depend on headline news and the general Interest talking heads and news hacks.

    But swear to Jupiter, I dealt with some tax preparers who just assumed that everything was the same with the new tax law, even though their freaking business demanded that they learn about the changes. And yeah, the average guy was probably lost. But accurate news coverage was easy to get, if not always easy to understand.

    Also, I talked to a number of pro Trump people, who not only understood the outline of the new law, but who gloated that it might hurt people in blue states.

  135. 135.

    smintheus

    According to the Morning Consult quiki-poll (fwiw), Warren gained 2% after the debate. Everybody else either lost support or stayed flat in the poll.

  138. 138.

    debbie

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Kamala’s great. Elizabeth’s great. How nice we have such a great choice. Not like them, with their choice being between bad and abominable.

    I think either could stand up to Trump, no matter how many times he calls her Pocohontas or (insert whatever he’s been calling Harris).

  139. 139.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @PJ: Over the past 40 years, every two term NYC mayor has either ran for president (Lindsey, Noun-Verb-9/11, de Blasio) or tried to run (Koch, Bloomie).

  140. 140.

    debbie

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Mine went down noticeably, but I just estimated what my taxes will be next year after finding a Forbes article listing brackets, deduction amounts, etc. (I have a thing with not letting federal, state, or city taxing authorities getting too much upfront). My taxes will be approximately $500 more than last year. Maybe not huge to some, but it’s my money.

  141. 141.

    Steve in the ATL

    @debbie: agree that they are both great and would both be top notch presidents. I just like Kamala better, and she doesn’t have the Hillaryesque negatives that Warren does.

    @Major Major Major Major: my taxes went up, and I live in a red state. And at some point we will all have to deal with the multi-trillion dollar Reagan/Bush/Bush/trump deficit.

  142. 142.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @PJ: Chris Hayes vigorously defends de Blasio, saying he passed most of the agenda he ran, yet I see how most New Yorkers really dislike him. What’s your perspective on this split view between the Chris Hayes set and the rank and file?

  145. 145.

    SFAW

    @Steve in the ATL:

    But alas I am not a front pager.

    I’m guessing part of the reason is that Cole doesn’t want to have a rotating “tag” for an FPer: “Steve in the ATL/SFO/LAX/DFW/BFD etc.”

    The other part, of course, is that you’re a running-dog lackey for the counter-revolutionary capitalists and fascists, busting unions the proletariat wherever you find it/them

  147. 147.

    Steve in the ATL

    @SFAW: on the other hand, I was promised a high tumbrel number, so I’ve got that going for me

  150. 150.

    Jinchi

    @Brachiator:

    Nothing is permanent in tax law.

    It would’ve been nice if the Democrats remembered that the year Bush’s tax cuts were literally scheduled to expire. I remember a lot of hand wringing over Republican rhetoric that Obama was going to preside over the largest tax increase history.

    (2010) Former President George W. Bush’s tax cuts expire in January. Obama and the Democrats want to renew only some of them, thus raising taxes for individuals making more than $200,000 and couples making more than $250,000.

    “We know the tax man cometh, and over the next few years, boy, will he be coming with a vengeance,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah.
    ….
    the debate about future tax increases has Republicans in Congress and conservatives across the country portraying Democrats as tax-and-spend liberals even before any new levies are approved.
    ….
    Be glad you’re not rich: NPR’s Alan Greenblatt contends that while it makes sense to tax the highest earners, there’s a point where taxing too much will tax the system.
    https://www.cleveland.com/nation/2010/04/tax_day_rhetoric_aside_america.html

    The subtext: Democrats are raising your taxes, simply by letting the taxes expire on the schedule George Bush and Republicans like Orin Hatch had explicitly written into their own bill.

  151. 151.

    opiejeanne

    @The Moar You Know:

    for most of the people in SoCal who have mortgages. Those folks are not going to sign off on any tax increases, they’re mad as hell about the mammoth one they just got hit with.

    This is why Orange County, CA turned blue. Income is higher there but so are home prices. Putting that ridiculous lid on deductions for property taxes woke them up. Also, not being able to balance state income tax against federal probably made them even angrier.

  153. 153.

    opiejeanne

    @Omnes Omnibus: My niece’s husband had to write a check for $7000 because of the no longer deductible items he pays for out of pocket.
    We only caught the increase in our taxes because I noticed there was too much money in our monthly retirement check, in February. It was only $300, but if we hadn’t adjusted our withholding to account for it we would have owed about $3200 in April. I didn’t realized that the new law had fiddled with withholding. Some of the Trump voters I talked to (not on purpose) thought they’d gotten a tax reduction.

  154. 154.

    J R in WV

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Quoting Greg Sargent:

    The candidates are proposing agendas to address structural racism and mitigate the human toll being inflicted on immigrant communities. This is constantly described as potentially alienating to Trump country — Midwestern white voters.

    Personally, the more we alienate Trump voters, the better, because they are despicable racist vile fascists. They will never vote for a decent person given an alternative like Trump.

  155. 155.

    Monala

    @The Moar You Know: The other people who itemize who got screwed are people who deducted unreimbursed business expenses. That deduction was also eliminated. This group includes a lot of long distance truckers who deducted their meals and lodging on the road. Bet a lot of them voted for Trump.

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