Do you stand with this torchbearer?
Or this one?
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57820431/GettyImages_830617844.0.jpg)
And that should be the ad the Democrats should already be running on every station, across America, to set the conditions for a successful 2020 presidential campaign, as well as campaigns for the House, Senate, and gubernatorial and state legislative elections. Once nominees are in place, you can then superimpose the Democratic nominees for these positions and relevant portions of their platforms, tailored to the specific races, on the image of the Statue of Liberty and of the President on the image of the Charlottesville white supremacists and neo-NAZIs.
Back in January I wrote about the context in which the 2020 US election was going to take place. I specifically wrote that the US was currently experiencing a very specific type of resource war:
The 21st Century American Resource War: An Ideological and Partisan Dispute Over Who Gets to be an American
The most divisive political dispute, for lack of a better or less incendiary term, that is going on in the US right now and will continue into and through the 2020 election is one over resources. This is not a dispute over physical resources; and it is not really over even political and economic power in the sense that we’re used to understanding those types of disputes in the post WW II United States. Rather, the actual resource in dispute is Americanness itself. As in who actually is, or may make a claim to be, an American. This is not a new fight within and between Americans. It goes back to the origins of the country. And it, as it is doing right now, usually flares back up immediately after there has been an extension of civil liberties and rights to groups that were not previously considered, whether for political, social, religious, and/or ethnic/racial reasons, to be entitled to the full rights, protections, and liberties of other Americans. We are, unfortunately, currently in one of these periods. And the fight is over two very different visions of what it means to be an American and who gets to be an American.
The President, his senior policy advisor Stephen Miller, fellow travelers like Congressman Steve King, many of his outside advisors like Anne Coulter and Ginni Thomas, and his base are committed to a very narrow, crimped, and small minded vision of what it means to be American and who gets to be an American. Those in opposition to this have a far broader, expansive, open minded, and welcoming understanding of Americanness. This is the real core political, social, and religious dispute in the US today. It is an ideational, ideological, and in some cases theological and dogmatic war over the resource of Americanness. And, for the time being, it is fortunately and largely non-violent. Though the acts of domestic terrorism that are being driven by the most extreme adherents of the narrow, crimped, small minded understanding of Americanness and who is an American are accelerating as we saw in Pittsburgh.
Unfortunately, the frequency of the domestic terrorism from within this long simmering American insurgency is escalating. The violence, or the attempts at violence, are increasing and, often, as we saw yesterday in El Paso, increasing in lethality. We know what side the President, his senior advisors, his surrogates, his supporters, the Republican Party, and the conservative movement have chosen. The rest of us need to get focused and realize that a political war is upon us. And that that political war is over who is and gets to be an American. And those seeking to narrow it are more than happy and willing to both promote violence to achieve their ends and to undertake it themselves. The separation of migrant children from their asylum seeking parents, their abysmal treatment in the concentration camps they’re being detained in, and the violent rhetoric the President, his surrogates, his enablers, and his supporters use are all types of this violence. These often state directed actions are acts of symbolic and rhetorical violence intended to influence the President’s most extreme followers and their fellow travelers to actual physical violence.
This is a political war that must be fought. And it must be won. It isn’t going to be won by arguing over who is or is not the most progressive or whose policy proposals are more centrist or more socialist, when even the most centrist of them are far to the left of the leftmost proposals from a decade ago. It will only be won by recognizing that we are actually in a political war and that this reality changes the dynamic of our politics in general and the politics and politicking of the 2020 election. This is not political and campaigning business as usual. This is not an attempt to somehow reset everything to dawn on November 8, 2016. This is not about things going back to normal. This is a fight to preserve as much as can still be preserved, to clear American politics of those who promote this bigoted, racist, xenophobic, small minded, and narrow vision of who is and can be an American, and then build something stronger on what has been preserved.
Pick a torch!
It’s that simple. You’re either on the side of the Statue of Liberty or the side of the tiki torch neo-NAZIs and white supremacists. There is no both siding this. There is no “if my favorite candidate isn’t the nominee, I’m not voting because I won’t compromise my ideals and ideological purity”. Refusing to pick a torch, is refusing to take a stand. It is putting yourself and whatever your pet issue or issues are over promoting the general welfare and providing for the common defense. None of your high minded, ideologically pure agenda is going to ever get enacted if you don’t stand with those standing with Lady Liberty against the nationalist conservatives, the white supremacists, neo-nationalists, neo-fascists, and neo-NAZIs. Failing to pick a torch moves us one step closer to a white Christian herrenvolk democracy in the US where everyone who isn’t white and Christian has their rights challenged, limited, and/or taken away.
Pick a torch!
Updated at 2:57 PM EDT
Redshift in the comments asked for a side by side, easy to use on social media version of the images. So here you go:
Open thread!
zhena gogolia
Thanks, Adam. I wish they would hire you for PR!
zhena gogolia
Just to add, this is what drives me crazy about the debates. Who cares how long it will take for Harris’s plan to phase in, or whether Warren’s plan will raise taxes?
We’re in a fight with Nazis! Wake up, sheeple!
Baud
Which torch is offering the most progressive health plan?
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Heh. We are one.
debbie
I would love to see that ad!
lamh36
??
Dr Ronnie James DO
I’m with her.
Always. ;)
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: I don’t think my Spanish is good enough to work for Puerto Rico.
Quinerly
Great post, Adam. Thanks!
The Dangerman
Would be an excellent ad, but there are SO many single issue voters on the other side. What it will take to wake them up is … well, who knows?
Baud/Silverman 2020 (feel free to flip)
gene108
My mom had a friend* over for lunch yesterday. Mom’s convinced Trump is unbeatable, and the Democratic candidates are weak.
I don’t think she’s alone in this way of thinking. I know the mainstream media reinforces this, with every time they show Trump breaking one norm or the other.
But he’s always had a negative approval rating, as President. Lost the popular vote, and wouldn’t have won the EC, without aggressive voter suppression and Russian interference.
Plus Dems won big in 2018.
How to flip this idea around and show Trump is vulnerable?
* Mom and her friend met in 1991. A few years later, it was somehow figured we are actually related. Weird how these things work.
Marcopolo
Here’s one way every BJer can help out. As we all are aware, even if the D’s hold onto the House & win the Presidency, the place where the rubber will meet the road is in the Senate.
Someone has gone to the time and effort to create an ActBlue page for making donations to all of the 2020 Democratic candidates for every US Senate race across the country. You can give to one candidate, pick and choose some of them, or make a blanket donation that will be split among all of them. Here’s the link (and I have bookmarked it so I can send it around to my friends periodically between now and Nov. 2020).
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/retakesenate2020
If you have the will, time, and ability to help out a campaign, get out there an volunteer locally. Hell, reach out to your local Mom’s Demand Action group and see what they need help with. We have special elections here on Tuesday so I am off to do some last weekend before the election work.
Take care everyone.
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
DO NOT WAKE UP THE SHEEPLE
Lapassionara
I love this idea.
Adam L Silverman
@gene108: Emphasize over and over and over that 1) he lost the popular vote in 2016, 2) that he only won the
popularelectoral vote because of the Russians and Jim Comey, not because he’s some sort of political genius, 3) that he’s actually accomplished nothing in three years – no wall, no actually improved and approved trade agreements, no massive improvement in the economy, nothing.Hammer it over and over and over again. In ads. In debates. On social media. In op-eds. During press conferences. He’ll freak out. And then he’ll act out. He always does.
Jeffro
Love the comparison/potential ad…
Do the same for the ACA vs McConnell-care
Do the same for restoring tax rates on the rich and corporations vs not
All of it. Draw the contrast, sharply, Dems
gene108
@gene108:
Edit not working
DO NOT WAKE UP THE SHEEPLE
satby
This is a great post, and I shared it on FB. But it’s constantly annoying that by sharing from the widget I get a generic logo page instead of the excellent photos and art that front pagers use. I wanted Lady Liberty, not part of the title of the blog.
rk
@lamh36:
Hundreds of bills to protect fetuses, none for babies or children.
Steeplejack
Jumping into this open thread to say that I just received my plastic “sleeve garter” from Amazon, which will allow me to cavort—gingerly—in the shower and get clean for the first time since Wednesday. Thanks to tokyokie for the tip!
???♂️?⚠?
Cheryl Rofer
I just donated, via the ActBlue link Marcopolo supplied, to Amy McGrath’s campaign in Kentucky to replace the vile #MoscowMitch.
Steeplejack
@Marcopolo:
Thanks for that link. Bookmarked.
gene108
@Adam L Silverman:
Think I’ll give her my copy of Al Franken’s Lies, and the Lying Liars, Who Tell Them first.
Really eye opening book for me way back in 2003. Still relevant today.
Cheryl Rofer
@satby: Reminder to Adam and other FP’ers: If you set a featured image, that’s the image that will come along on a FB share.
This will continue to be true on the new site.
Adam L Silverman
@gene108: Sheepsquatch?
https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Sheepsquatch
Redshift
So in the interests of plastering this all over social media, can someone meme-ify Adam’s photos and slogan into one image? I would happily spam Twitter with it on a daily basis.
(Trying to decide if #ImWithHer would be a good hashtag, it if it would be offputting to idiots who, despite being idiots, might otherwise participate and amplify it.)
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Haha, I’m so manic these days I forgot I had set up a monthly donation to her until I inspected my credit-card bill just now.
zhena gogolia
@gene108:
Yes, it’s a great book. Much better than his Lion of the Senate one.
zhena gogolia
@Redshift:
I’ve seen it on Twitter, so somebody has already done it. But I’m not too computer literate, I’m afraid.
Adam L Silverman
@satby: I’ll let the design folks know. I’m sure whatever the fix is will only make it worse.
Lapassionara
@Adam L Silverman: Not to mention the astonishingly large deficit. Wasn’t he going to fix that too?
FelonyGovt
Very well stated, Adam. That’s really what we’re facing.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
This is Biden’s campaign. He probably could have stuck to it, too. I mean, it’s a little unusual and he probably would have gotten slammed for a lack of specifics but his campaign is a broad promise to marginalize Trumpism and just be DECENT. Which seems to have a certain amount of support in the public. I think it’s authentic to him, too. He (literally!) does not understand why people are quibbling over details :)
Adam L Silverman
@Redshift: I actually tried to see if there was one like that. Give me a minute and I’ll do it and update the post.
JKC
Amen, Adam. Well said.
I’ve had this discussion with my brother, who teaches AP US Government (aka Civics) to high school seniors, and is as kind and decent as the day is long. He feels that Democrats can’t (or shouldn’t) shred any rules to win. I don’t think that’s a luxury we have any more. It’s time to stop bringing Robert’s Rules of Order to fight off fascists.
And if there aren’t ads bombing Kentucky calling out #MoscowMitch on a daily basis, then there should be.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
Yes, that works for me. I wish he were 20 or even 10 years younger.
Josie
@Adam L Silverman:
Did you mean he only won the electoral vote?
ETA: Thanks for a great post.
debbie
@Lapassionara:
Remedy now delayed until after the next election. I wonder if even the GOP realizes it will lose in 2020>
Catherine D.
Ooh, I’m itching to make line art of these images for a t-shirt.
Quinerly
@Catherine D.: I’d buy one!
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
It probably works for a lot of people. It’s not ideological. He’s like “are you decent? Then I’m your guy!” Some Democratic primary voters are like “well, actually, this started with Nixon”. He’s thinking “who cares? Your house is on fire!”
tokyokie
@Steeplejack: You’re welcome! Glad I could be a positive influence, which is rarely the case!
Quinerly
@Kay: I will get pilloried I suspect, but been giving Biden a lot of thought these last few days. I was all Harris all the way until the last few days. She turned me off in the debate. The Biden pile on did not sit well with me. I still wish he hadn’t run, but I think I’m leaning to him for my support. It’s complicated. First time I’ve said it out loud.
Hungry Joe
“Pick a torch” is good. I mean, it’s REALLY good.
Catherine D.
@Quinerly: I’m thinking of the title being “Which side are you on?” because I’m an old folkie. If I do come up with a design, I will cheerfully donate it to any group trying to take back the Senate. To me, that’s life or death.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
I do know that my never-Trumper friend is most comfortable with Biden.
Kay
Kellyanne Conway
No one’s going to follow you, low quality Trump hire. You’re a liar and you have no moral or ethical authority to tell anyone to do anything. Bankrupt.
zhena gogolia
There are a lot of them out there, like this one
https://me.me/i/on-tuesday-november-gth-we-pick-a-torch-america-vote-53340e3529ff48f1b6e85c5f8000dc46
satby
@Cheryl Rofer: @Adam L Silverman: Adam, looks like that’s in your power. Huzzah!
Baud
@Quinerly:
I still don’t prefer Biden, but don’t let anyone on the internet scare you off.
Kay
@zhena gogolia:
I think it’s interesting that Joe Biden is running the campaign elite pundits say they want and they won’t credit him with it.
They were more willing to give Williamson the moral and ethical appeal than they were Biden, and Biden’s running on it. There’s some kind of inherent bias operating here, or they would see that all of their demands for “a Trump opponent” are met in Biden. They can’t give it to him.
schrodingers_cat
I picked up the torch a day before T became President of the United States by applying for citizenship. I realized that I had to choose a side.
Quinerly
This is a must read, imo.
https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/el-paso-dayton-shootings-blame-impeach-trump-white-nationalism-20190804.html
Patrick Linnen
Prediction:
“How Dare You to Blackmail Me to vote for My Interests!”
Because that (and ‘identity politics’) will ring the hillsides once He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named gets locked out.
JPL
@Quinerly: Although my support is thin, I think a Biden/Harris ticket can win, and we definitely need to win.
Adam L Silverman
@Redshift: I just uploaded an image that, I think, fulfills your request.
Quinerly
@Baud: I’m a delicate magnolia blossom. Didn’t you know.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Me too. His moment has passed. He just seemed so out of it on the debate stage, last week and at the first debate.
Kay
Kellyanne Conway’s scared. She’s afraid this is going to come back to bite her and the rest of the bottom of the barrel hires.
The desperate, clumsy switch to “unity” is amusing after 3 years of solid, malicious BILE she’s spewed. Truly enjoyable to watch her sweat, though. Good luck, sister! Maybe it’ll work.
Adam L Silverman
@Josie: Yep, fixed it. Thanks.
HinTN
@Hungry Joe:
Yes it is. Pithy and precise, plus it puts the racists immediately on the defensive. Very much like “Moscow Mitch” has done.
Well done Mr Silverman.
MomSense
Perfect!
Cheryl Rofer
I am seeing reports on Twitter that tweets containing the word “invasion” and perhaps others are being deleted from Trump’s account. Fortunately, there are a number of accounts with archived Trump tweets.
That’s consistent with Kay’s comment that Conway’s scared. They’ve got a problem.
(((CassandraLeo)))
balloon-juice.com is misspelled in the image. Just thought I should point that out.
Also it’s Ann Coulter, not Anne. I don’t know why I notice so many of these things.
Anyway, great piece!
Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.
Inventor
I am spreading this meme and giving Adam credit because it’s great and he deserves it.
Quinerly
@JPL: That’s where I’m going in my thought process. I even thought Biden/Booker, but still lean Harris. We are still a ways out, but I do know one thing. Attacking Obama’s legacy through Biden is not productive and actually is harmful. I was cringing when I heard Trump gloating at that last rally.
(((CassandraLeo)))
Also:
Elton John – Ticking
Things have not improved since he and Bernie Taupin wrote the song. In fact, they’ve gotten much worse.
Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.
Emerald
Ah, but those high-minded folk really don’t care if their agenda actually ever gets enacted. That’s not what they’re about. They’re about high mindedness. Nothing more. They are morally superior to the rest of us, and that’s the only thing that counts.
Lady Liberty cannot count on them.
JPL
@Cheryl Rofer: Trump is a coward who can’t stand by his own statements.
Cathie Fonz
I posted this on twitter too, #PickATorch. It applies to Canada as well– we are having an election in October and the Conservative party is pandering to Canadian anti-immigrant white nationalists too, just like American republicans are. Its scary that all of Trudeau’s progress could be dismantled if Scheer wins.
Quinerly
Interesting
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/el-paso-shooting-twitter/
Adam L Silverman
@(((CassandraLeo))): I fixed the image. I also could care less how Coulter spells her name.
mrmoshpotato
@Steeplejack: Swimming and surfing in the shower, caution: disembodied skull?
Omnes Omnibus
If we can take the Senate and keep the House and then pass lberal/common sense legislation, there isn’t a real Democrat (Bernie and Tulsi being the odd people out) running who would not sign it into law. If Warren is president and Congress gives her Beto’s immigration plan, it will become law.
That means we should be voting on two things. First, who can win. Second, who can best advocate for our side. Each of those things has many components, but that’s the thumbnail sketch in my view.
Another Scott
Nice.
Unfortunately, my OCD is acting up on the new siamese image. The right half is too squished together (the perspective wasn’t preserved).
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
wasabi gasp
People don’t care about torches. That is some half-assed liberal weenie cartoon reality bullshit.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Adam L Silverman: That’s fully understandable – it’s not as if she’s ever given a toss for details like that herself! Turnabout is fair.
Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.
zhena gogolia
@Inventor:
Much as I love Adam, it’s been all over the internet for a while. But I do hope it gets more memified!
tokyokie
@schrodingers_cat: The Filipina spousal unit went through the naturalization process early in the GWB administration. Since then, I understand that the cost and the bureaucratic impediments have only gotten worse.
J R in WV
If Joe Biden wins the primary and the nomination, I’ll donate and work to get him elected. During the primary season, I’ll support Harris and Warren, they seem to have the ability to fight for progess once elected, Biden seems to think all he needs is to get elected, which is actually step one on a long steep winding road. I don’t think he can make the pilgrimage up the hill, but if he wins the primary season, he’s our guy.
I intend to canvass and organize somewhere that it might make a difference, like a tipping purple state like AZ, or work for McGrath next door in KY, somewhere like that, once we’re close to the election.
It helps me sleep at night to know I’ve done what I can to support American values.
Obviously, I’m with the torch on the Statue of Liberty, those guys holding torches are obviously insane monsters. I’m glad Antifa has identified most of them….
MomSense
I remember singing Irving Berlin’s Give Me Your Tired Your Poor when I was in my high school’s show choir. We grew up on the idea of America as a melting pot, a place where anyone and everyone could come together because they believed in each other and our founding ideals. Of course, we never fully realized those ideals but we didn’t abandon them.
We can’t cede what it means to be American to the racists, the xenophobes, the anti-science idiots, or the greedy. I want to believe in a more perfect union and I think that’s worth fighting for. So as upset and depressed as I feel about what is happening, I’m not going to give up. Fuckem!
This is my fight no matter what.
give me your tired
zhena gogolia
@MomSense:
OT, any improvement?
Kay
@Cheryl Rofer:
I love that they have decided Conway is the leader. What a joke.
Couldn’t they find anyone in that administration that was even halfway credible? She’s the best they have? She can’t even pull off a “unity” tweet without attacking her critics. My God, Ted Cruz is denouncing white supremicist terrorist attacks.
None of them can manage it? I suppose they can’t, really. They’ll get fired in the most humiliating and public way possible.
Villago Delenda Est
@Lapassionara: Hard to do that when he’s handing out tax cuts to his fellow .1% parasites.
B.B.A.
As Susan Sontag observed, the white race is a cancer upon humanity.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
pedant alert:
You could? ‘Cause I couldn’t!!
/pedant alert
;-)
Villago Delenda Est
@tokyokie: Stephen Miller has made it his mission in life to make the United States, contrary to the wishes of the Founders, a Blut und Boden country.
Adam L Silverman
Bella Q asked me to pass this update on on her behalf:
Villago Delenda Est
@B.B.A.: The United States will never reach its full potential as long as there is a single white supremacist out in the open. They can live under the rocks.
Another Scott
Twitter:
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Villago Delenda Est: Of which neither his blut nor his boden would qualify him to be an American.
Mike in NC
Spent the day in Belfast, where people conducted a low intensity civil war for about 25 or so years until sanity seemed to prevail. Belfast today is a modern, vibrant, forward looking city which hopefully will not succumb to Trumpism anytime soon. We made a beeline to the excellent Titanic museum which was packed on a Sunday morning. One could easily enjoy 4-5 hours there but we had to plow through in about 90 minutes to make it back to the ship for the next tour of historic Belfast (parliament, city hall, churches, the Peace Wall, and Belfast Castle).
MomSense
@zhena gogolia:
She is eating and started drinking water this morning! Tuesday we test her liver enzymes and hopefully they have improved. She has definitely perked up but I don’t know yet if that is just the treatment or if her liver is recovering. So we just continue to treat her and hope she recovers. At least she doesn’t look like she is dying right now. It was pretty grim for a few days.
Of course I’m spoiling her. She is on the couch with me getting constant loving.
mrmoshpotato
@Kay: Charging, trying, convicting and hanging Kellyanne Conjob and the rest of these Nazi shitbags is to start to solving problems. America is together – we’re fighting Nazis.
Aleta
Someone put the image on twitter this am.
Aleta
@Aleta: Also from Dl this am:
Fair Economist
@Kay:
They can never admit a Democrat is doing something right (by their standards, as you say, whatever we think).
J R in WV
@wasabi gasp:
You must be today’s RWNJ troll, the drooling idiot for August 4th. Welcome,
now go away forever.
zhena gogolia
The WaPo front page right now is a festival of anti-Trump pieces.
Aleta
@MomSense: That’s such good news! Pets to her.
lamh36
zhena gogolia
@MomSense:
Give her a hug for me!
Suzanne
Tyler Cowen repeatedly makes the point that all political fights are, at core, about relative social status. Joan Williams points out that many of the Trumpers only have (or only feel that they have) one high-status identity marker, and that is their American-ness.
If these points are correct—and I am pretty certain that they are—then no amount of logic or rational assessment will be able to shake it. I can point out that immigrants are mostly hardworking, non-criminal people all day long, but the real reason that they don’t want immigrants and minorities around is because then being an American loses its exclusivity.
Once again, the hardest part about the Obama presidency for this cohort was the realization that there were black people who are cooler and smarter and more attractive than they are.
Quinerly
@MomSense: Good news. Spoiling is good.
Another Scott
@J R in WV: Poor form, JR.
Wasabi gasp has been here a long time.
Mutual admiration societies are boring. We need to be able to have disagreements to figure out better ways forward.
Cheers,
Scott.
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
I’m still with her!
But I’ll vote for any of them. Except Tulsi. And I’ll see about Bernie.
gene108
Heh… got a 12 hour Twitter time out for this…
HappyHappyJoyJoy5000
@Gene1525
https://twitter.com/account/access
Dan B
There are several divergent views being reinforced at the same time. To many people they seem different but they share common roots.
Lady Liberty vs. Klan. Lady Liberty recognizes new arrivals as human beings. Progressives and liberals welcome them despite their flaws. Neo-Klans see little but the imperfections. Neo-Klans see empathy as a fatal weakness and diversity as a threat to their identity. Who says only liberals practice “identity politics”? It’s not identity politics that is the problem it’s who qualifies as a citizen, patriot, or a human being.
The Neo-Klans also like to claim people of color are the real racists. They believe they are just defending their rights but it boils down to their belief that life is a zero sum game. They claim that natural resources are limitless and then demand that only they get to benefit from their extraction. They had to slaughter Native Americans so they coukd take their land because there was no way to co-exist in this cast country.
Their are two different torches and many layers to peel back.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
Glad to see that Bella’s people are safe
My company does something similar. And yet it is sad that we now accommodate the new normal of periodic mass shootings.
MisterForkbeard
@Another Scott: I seem to recall similar trollish statement from Wasabi Gasp in the past – being a longtime poster doesn’t mean they’re not a troll.
Kirk Spencer
@Another Scott: Also, I rather thought it was sarcasm.
joel hanes
@B.B.A.:
As Susan Sontag observed, the white race is a cancer upon humanity.
IMHO, it’s because of the way humans with power and privilege often behave, not something peculiar to white people with power and privilege.
The Great Leap Forward, the Khmer Rouge, Mongol invasions, Tutsi/Hutu, Aztec sacrifices, the Turks massacring the Albanians, the situation in Myanmar.
Out of the crooked timber of humanity was no straight thing ever made.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@MomSense: That sounds encouraging!
Brachiator
@zhena gogolia:
More on this in a purely political thread, but I wonder if Bernie thinks that the Democratic Party is inherently corrupt. His supporters certainly believe this.
joel hanes
@wasabi gasp:
liberal weenie cartoon reality bullshit
consider this one, then
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c9e8e310b943f69c3e9856ca8370f38135d98ac649632905d37948739c93bf1f.jpg
Aleta
@Redshift:
Here’s one image from early this a.m. that we can help plaster on twitter:
Hughes is “PA Senator representing the 7th district, encompassing portions of Phila. & Montgomery County. Sen. Dem. Appropriations Chairman.”
Gravenstone
@Kay: Um, Kellyanne? You work for DEPRAVED EVIL. So explain exactly what it is you intend to do about that?
Brachiator
@lamh36:
Damn. Harris nailed it. And this is not a partisan compliment.
What have other Democratic Party candidates said?
And Trump is miserably failing the test. He is stuck. He has painted himself into a corner with his hateful rhetoric.
Kay
Oh, good job! All the rest of the people who aren’t going to win should withdraw too. We have to focus.
prostratedragon
@Cheryl Rofer:
An archive that I know of, down to earlier today. Apparently downloadable, though I haven’t tried yet.
Elizabelle
Moscow Mitch broke his shoulder this morning, per WaPost. Allegedly took a fall on his patio.
Kay
You know that thing in a group where if you don’t ask your question someone else will always ask it?
Tell the 15 candidates who aren’t going to win about that. They’re not unique. They can drop out and someone else will carry their torch.
Omnes Omnibus
@MisterForkbeard: wasabi gasp is the closest thing we have to a pure troll (one who trolls for the sake of trolling rather than in support of an agenda) since srv went away. That being said, there are a number of regular commenters who are getting awfully close to calling anyone who disagrees with the consensus on a thread either a right wing troll or a paid Russian troll. Sometimes people disagree, sometimes someone is just plain wrong, and sometimes the commenter is an actual troll.
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
Just for you, I fix. Writing “could care less” is careless and ungrammatical, and I know you don’t want to be like that.
zhena gogolia
@Elizabelle:
thoughts and prayers
I won’t say what I’m thinking or what I’m praying for
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: Only one candidate is going to win. Where do you draw the line given that is about a year until the convention where the nominee will actually be chosen?
Amir Khalid
@Elizabelle:
It is heartless of me, I know, but his Schade brings me Freude.
joel hanes
there are a number of regular commenters who are getting awfully close to calling anyone who disagrees with the consensus on a thread either a right wing troll or a paid Russian troll
I regularly read the private blog of one of our more well-known commenters. Or, I should say former commenters: I noticed that his nym is no longer seen in all the familiar places, and asked him about it.
He has withdrawn from commenting on this blog and all the other blogs on which he was a familiar voice, because the mob piling-on reception accorded to some comments had destroyed the pleasure he formerly took in these conversations. Not just here, either.
zhena gogolia
@Kay:
That’s good. I actually kind of like him. I know that’s a minority opinion around here.
Cheryl Rofer
One objective of trolls is to get other commenters fighting with each other. So when one set of folks are pointing out wasabi gasp’s unpleasant comment and another set are defending wasabi gasp’s longevity or right to say it or whatever, step back and think about whether this is an argument worth clogging up the comment thread.
geg6
I’m with her.
joel hanes
@Brachiator:
Trump … has painted himself into a corner with his hateful rhetoric
I’m seeing reports that the Trump posts and advertisements containing the word “invasion” are being scrubbed.
dmsilev
@Kay: All of the candidates who fail to qualify for the next debate should drop out. That’ll get us down to maybe 10 people, which is still too big a field but is getting better. Whether they do so now or in a month is irrelevant IMO; the thing about being a marginal candidate is you get very little news coverage, so it’s not like you’re sucking up attention from the actual contenders. It’s only for things like time during debates that having the thundering herd really becomes a problem.
Quinerly
@joel hanes: Good information. It seems a few regulars don’t comment anymore. Makes me sad.
Quinerly
@Elizabelle: I had been working my Moscow Mitch Voodoo Doll pretty hard with 5 carefully placed pins. Felt like I had lost my touch. Slammed it to the floor and Poco thought it was a chew toy. Guess I was wasting my time with the pins in the nether region. ?
Fair Economist
@dmsilev: Watching these absurdly overlarge debates is painful, but I’ve realized it’s a good way to build consensus. Nobody can say they “weren’t given a chance”. We’ll be rid of almost all the jokes and hopeless cases in the next cut-off, and be down to only serious candidates by the next, still months before the first votes.
MoCA Ace
New NAZI, old NAZI… can’t we just call them FUCKING NAZI’S
Baud
@Kay:
Excellent. I really didn’t him, but I’ll give him props here.
Aleta
Here are some examples (from PA Dems) of action we might ask about when we call our own state legislators
(The twitter link has added links (to legis.state.pa.us) for the bills, which have been introduced by Dems in the PA Senate and blocked by Rs.
Obv, there’s also the problem of transport across state lines, which a state acting alone can’t fix.
.
wasabi gasp
@Another Scott: Thanks, dude. Can’t say I’ve ever received that courtesy before.
@Omnes Omnibus: You just bitchin’ cuz you’re an anger queen spinning shitty tunes.
Jay
Baud
@Baud:
Left out a “like.”.
mrmoshpotato
@joel hanes:
Plenty of retweet bots, like RealPressSec that retweet his garbage so people won’t have to follow Dump on Twitter.
The Interwebs is forever (until the Sweet Meteor of Death comes.)
Dan B
@Omnes Omnibus: The goal of trolls, at least Putin’s trolls, is to make us feel upset and start arguments. Whenwver I feel like this now I take a moment and calm down. Being upset distracts us from the root of the problem and steers us away from the good that still exists.
Brachiator
@Quinerly:
Mentioned in the Philadelphia Inquirer story
Funny how Romney just can’t bring himself to say “Trump.”
Baud
@MomSense:
Good news.
Jay
dmsilev
@Fair Economist: I think the 20-person debates were fine for the summer when, lets face it, it doesn’t really matter, but as we go into the fall and start to get closer to actually voting, thinning things down so that plausible candidates have more time is a good idea. But yes, having that very broad (and clearly defined) threshold for the first debates should help with the whining about “rigging the process” etc.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dan B: Given that I am completely new to the internet, I did not know that. Thank you so much.
MoCA Ace
@Catherine D.:
I’ll take several!!
Martin
@Aleta: True, but you do it nevertheless. CA is able to confiscate weapons from people with criminal records, people with restraining orders, etc. In some cases we’re flushing people toward other forms of criminality, which sounds bad, but they are easier to police so they get caught that way.
Given the tsunami of shitty policy from the GOP, getting a finger in the dike is sometimes all you can do.
Brachiator
@joel hanes:
Interesting. I expect that Trump will soon lie and deny that he ever said “invasion.”
BR
Looks like the meme was around a couple years ago, briefly. Here’s another version of it that isn’t quite as stretched:
https://twitter.com/taphilips/status/896499538881519617
Baud
@Brachiator:
Fixed for completeness.
B.B.A.
@MoCA Ace: Most of ’em are incels so it’d be inaccurate.
John Revolta
@Elizabelle:
I kinda hate that the first thing I thought of was “What’s he up to?”
wasabi gasp
@Brachiator: That guy is such a political nincompoop. A respected veteran north-eastern liberal republican somehow finds his calling in state-sanctioned white supremacy.
Sure Lurkalot
@Quinerly: Argh! Is Biden Obama’s legacy? I wish Joe would have just one anecdote about how he talked to Obama about something they disagreed on. Obama was the best president in my lifetime but I certainly had issues with some of his decisions.
With Biden basically supporting every move Obama made, it becomes exceedingly difficult to point out any policy differences or unintended consequences without it being called turning one’s back on Obama.
My admiration for Obama includes his professed willingness to scrap what on paper didn’t work in the real world. He knew he’d make mistakes.
Dan B
@Dan B: As Cheryl said. If you’re getting upset the trolls have put another notch on their wall.
germy
@John Revolta:
Dancing to Putin’s tune!
Quinerly
Interesting.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mexico-vows-take-legal-action-against-u-s-wake-deadly-n1039096?cid=sm_npd_ms_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR2u-yn28sWweqM81Ro9r-T8j1WwpIfAweRpQXOLan85Dd7iA7-mB5zB0AQ&fbclid=IwAR0ARx4jGTshfoLuz4y9arude1UCCG_-ZnmesbYHwzm49myGHLkoOa8zsGk&fbclid=IwAR2r_0z5htb_GUK8rOGZG52u_-A4N-LGikb8lkSuvYaVCNsGPzV9OWrK6YQ
germy
So his work consists of expressing his deepest sympathies.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/04/mitch-mcconnell-fractures-shoulder-1446434
germy
I thought Biden’s claim to fame was his uncanny ability to reach across the aisle and “get things done” with republicans.
He was Obama’s choice for VP because of that claim. Was Biden successful?
John Revolta
@Dan B: So, the goal of the troll is contention and dissension?
debbie
@John Revolta:
I kinda, maybe sorta hate that my first reaction was to pull out my tiny violin.
Brachiator
@germy:
I would guess that Moscow Mitch has pretty good health insurance.
Quinerly
@Sure Lurkalot: I wasn’t aware that I said Biden was Obama’s legacy. My point was attacking Biden about Obama is harmful, imo. I’m really sick of the Biden hate on this blog. I don’t recall it when he was saying “big fucking deal.” I’ve made myself clear. Didn’t want Biden to run. But now that he is in, the other candidates need to concentrate on what they bring to the table to beat Trump. Not on an op ed written in the 1980’s or events that happened 40 years ago. Most voters associate Biden with Obama and figure he’s a good man since Obama picked him.
wasabi gasp
@Dan B: I’m considering changing my surname to Coolbeans. Join me, brother.
debbie
@Brachiator:
Isn’t he forbidden from doing this, like he is from blocking people?
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: No, Biden was/is an old school, white, lunch bucket Democrat in a lot of ways. Choosing Biden and Biden accepting told the Gephardt/O’Neil/etc., types that Obama was okay and that it was safe to vote for him.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Brachiator: “I never said Mexico would pay for the wall” ~ Jan 10, 2019.
debbie
@joel hanes:
Just checked. They’re all gone. Hope they’ve been archived somewhere.
schrodingers_cat
@tokyokie: The fees keep increasing because that’s how USCIS is run, on the application fees for various immigration benefits/visas etc.
Mike in DC
I think there are really only 3 viable nominees at this point: Biden, Warren and Harris. I’m a Harris supporter, and Biden would be my third choice, but I do think that generally their messaging on white nationalism is all on point. It has gotten considerably easier to link Trump to white supremacist violence since his racist tweets of the past month, and with this latest attack. And we’re still more than a year away from the election.
debbie
@MomSense:
Great news!
debbie
@Another Scott:
This is a God I can love. My favorite from last night:
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Mike in DC: it was only 10 short months ago when MAGA terrorists started massacring Jews and mailing mass letter bombs.
Brachiator
@germy:
An old Atlantic article claims that Biden forged a strong partnership with Obama.
Oddly enough, the article praises Biden’s ability to deal with Mitch McConnell.
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/266729/#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s
Mike in DC
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: There are a lot of slow learners in the media and in the electorate. The more incidents that occur, the easier it is to overcome that innate resistance to connect those final dots.
HRA
When Obama said he was running for president, a number of senators urged him to reconsidered and wait till he gathered more years in the Senate. Obama told this in a public interview and said he thought if “not now, then when”. Yes, I can!
Biden, IMHO was chosen to shut down the naysayers and help with them not blocking Obama’s efforts.
Another Scott
@germy: I thought Biden’s purpose was to make enough voters comfortable with the Democratic ticket to vote for Obama/Biden and thereby win the election.
He doesn’t bring that much else to the ticket these days, IMHO.
He dropped out in 2008 in January after doing poorly in Iowa.
Every poll I’ve seen shows every major Democratic candidate beating Donnie this time. 2018 shows us that the GOP has major vulnerabilities and that new Democratic candidates can do well.
I’m looking for a Presidential nominee who will do everything in their power to run up the score everywhere, because without the majority we can’t have sensible redistricting, we can’t have sensible trade policy, we can’t have sensible law enforcement, we can’t have sensible environmental policies, and all the rest. We need blowout victories to get the troglodytes to scurry back under their rocks and to stop creating more of them.
AFAIK, Biden has mostly been hiding from the public except for attending high-cost fundraisers. What support has he given to other candidates (not a leading question)?
Maybe Biden would/will be great. But I think Warren is a much, much stronger candidate (though I do continue to worry a little about the “I’d be happy to vote for a woman, but not
any actual live womanher.’ It’s still very early, and as long as the major candidates have millions of dollars to spend, I see no need for any of them to drop out before actual votes are taken. The political junkies can pay attention and people with real lives to worry about can continue to ignore it if they want.Cheers,
Scott.
Quinerly
@Mike in DC: agree.
Matt
OTOH, none of the wishy-washy centrist agenda will either in that case – maybe it’s time for the people who’ve been coddling the proto-fascists for thirty years to stop wringing their hands about “are we moving too far left” and STFU.
If moderates want to insist that “now is not the time to debate policy”, let’s instead debate how moderates’ desperate need for “both sides” got us to this place.
Dan B
@Omnes Omnibus: Meant as a general observation for everyone. You’re already on top of it but I like to be reminded. It us particularly pertinent for me after watching The Great Hack – Russian cointelpro tactics weaponized across the internet.
Chyron HR
@Matt:
DUH MODAWATES weren’t the ones telling people to stay home in 2016 because Hillary and Trump were equally bad, friendo.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Another Scott: I think a Harris/Warren or a Warren/Harris ticket would drive turnout like crazy. And that’s gonna be what makes 2020 a very different year than 2016 for Democrats in races all across the nation.
Dan B
@germy: Convenient for Moscow Mitchell to avoid his adoring crowds. (Assuming we’ve all seen the videos of them singing Moskie’s ‘praises’.)
The optics were a little iffy.
Brachiator
@wasabi gasp:
Sorry, I have no idea what point you are trying to make.
Sure Lurkalot
@Quinerly: Inarticulately written. I understand that much of Biden’s appeal directly links to Obama, but I would also like Biden more if he displayed some of Obama’s ability to look back and admit error. My point being that Biden himself makes it difficult not to criticize Obama in criticizing him. I agree with you that it’s an own goal for Democrats.
Jinchi
@gene108:
It’s not easy to convince anyone, but the facts are that Trump has never been popular and he has deliberately made enemies of virtually every community that isn’t rich, white and male. That isn’t a winning strategy.
He only won 46% of the popular vote in 2016 (barely winning the electoral college with nailbiters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania). His popularity has dropped since then. He started on inauguration day with a net 2% positive approval-disapproval rating. He lost that in his first few weeks. His net approval has between -10% to -20% ever since. Democrats won by nearly a 9% margin in 2018 and they are highly motivated to get him out of office in 2020.
I don’t think beating Trump is a slam dunk, people need to get to the polls, but it seems like a lot of people who laughed at the idea that an arrogant clown like Trump could win in 2016 were so shocked by his win that they’ve convinced themselves that he’s a political genius. Personally, I think 2020 will be a rout and that any one of the major Democratic candidates could defeat him.
Joseph A Miller
@wasabi gasp: GFY.
Dan B
@John Revolta: The Great Hack (Netflix) has a great analysis of the use of Facebook, and others, to micro-target individuals so each person gets a tailored news and advertisong feed. Susceptible individuals get feeds that are subtly alarming. Blogs get disruptive commenters who seem reasonable much of the time but regilarly rile up the crowd. This provides a distraction to the core issues and/or criminality.
The Great Hack put the pieces together for me. Now it feels possible to effectively resist and get people on track.
Dan B
@wasabi gasp: What do you stand for?
Omnes Omnibus
@Matt:
Who has been coddling proto-fascists? I will also note that if the far left can’t bring themselves to vote for Democrats because they are too compromised, they are bringing it on themselves. If the votes aren’t there on the left and Dems want to win, they need to appeal to centrists. I would posit that the actual ideological center if the Democratic party is quite a bit to the left of what is indicated by legislation. Things have to be tailored in such a way that leadership can get the votes of the Manchins, etc. If there had been, for example, 65 Dems in the Senate when the ACA was in play, it would have been a much more left leaning law. Dems could not lose a single Conserva-Dem, so they were wielding power well in excess of their numbers. Nader and Stein voters as well as leftists who stayed home led to compromised policy-making.
Brachiator
@Quinerly:
@Another Scott:
People seem to have forgotten how highly Obama esteemed Biden. From a WaPo article.
Ironically, this piece also asserts that Biden wisely did not have presidential ambitions himself.
ETA. No link provided. The WaPo site is fighting with me over free articles
different-church-lady
“Oh. Well then I’m not interested.”
(Said half the on-line left…)
Jinchi
@Baud: @Quinerly:
Biden’s not high on my list either, mainly because I honestly have no idea why the man wants to be president. But I’d enthusiastically support any of the major candidates against Trump (and most of minor ones). Despite the cast of thousands, this primary already seems to be sorting itself out into 5 real contenders. I hope people will vote for their favorite in the primary and consolidate behind the winner for November.
zhena gogolia
@Jinchi:
Wow, thank you for that. I hope you’re right.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: Obama is always glowing about everyone he compliments.
And I have no doubt that they got along well.
But he wasn’t “co-president” or something. And Biden’s got a habit of changing history to blow his own horn.
Did Obama do anything important with Biden between the time they left office and Biden announced? I’m not aware of anything.
To be clear – I’m advocating that we be clear-eyed about the candidates, not dreamy-eyed about the past with Obama. “There’s no returning to ‘normal’; the only way out is through.” – A. Silverman.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
Love this! Well said!
Steeplejack (phone)
@mrmoshpotato:
Warning against excessive cavorting.
wasabi gasp
@Joseph A Miller: lol at you popping your head up out a hole to make that squeaky sound.
wasabi gasp
@Dan B: Not much Dan, I have internet.
Jinchi
@dmsilev:
I think the 20-person debates were pretty effective at separating the Harrises from the O’Rourkes.
But yes, I’m looking forward to narrowing the field down.
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Awarding Biden the Medal of Freedom was a big fucking deal. More than a mere compliment.
None of the articles I mentioned feature Biden blowing his own horn. And they get into some detail on how Obama and Biden worked together. No, Biden was not co-president, but he also was not just some random mook hanging around.
No one is being dreamy-eyed about the past with Obama. And Biden is not my guy. But it is pretty damn clear that the people who support Biden have a good understanding of why he was chosen and how he supported and helped Obama. And they are not wrong when they see that Biden can defeat Trump.
Sam
Trump will not back off. The dynamic is unstable; Adam assumes status quo to the 2020 election, and I think this is just wrong. Trump thrives on chaos and division, why would he stop?
We are in very dangerous times, the violence and rhetoric are escalating. Something way bad will happen long before the election.
Brachiator
@Sam:
Something bad is already happening.
Jinchi
@Brachiator:
Is this supposed to be a Biden selling point? Because I remember McConnell joking about “taking hostages” with the debt ceiling and the Obama/Biden solution was the austerity-lite sequestration. Obama wasn’t supposed to “cut a deal” he was supposed to cut McConnell off at the knees.
I much prefer Nancy Pelosi’s strategy when Trump pulled the same stunt.
J R in WV
@Brachiator:
Wasabi Gasp has no point to make, they’re just a run of the mill Troll, trying to sow arguments between the Democrats — perhaps a Russian troll, perhaps a home grown fascist, what difference does that make? None!
ETA:
wasabi gasp — go die in a fire!
Ruckus
@germy:
Would you ever expect anything more from him?
And if so, why?
Sam
@Brachiator: yeah my point is that it will get worse and there is likely to be a nonlinearity. A full fledged riot, mob on mob violence, who knows.
I’m a yellow dog Dem, but this cycle have become almost uninterested in the Dem candidates. We can debate policy later. Right now we just have to survive Trump.