Breaking: Israel’s interior minister just approved @RashidaTlaib’s petition to enter Israel 'on humanitarian grounds' to visit her Palestinian grandmother @ the West Bank. She had to promise not to promote #BDS during the visit https://t.co/e8K2ZgtOUQ pic.twitter.com/q9ULe25xX2
— Noa Landau נעה לנדאו (@noa_landau) August 16, 2019
Trump and Bibi get their second humiliation of Congresswoman Tlaib, using her 90+ year-old grandmother as leverage. Fuck those people, and fuck Israel in particular. If they don’t want Congressional oversight, we should just strip their billions of military aid from the budget.
On the Road and In Your Backyard
Another Scott
Meh.
NPR’s ATC spent about 10 minutes at the top of the hour on this yesterday. It’s not that big a story, IMO, and we shouldn’t let Donnie continue to distract us from whatever outrage he causes every single day.
Bibi is horrible. Donnie is horrible. These things are nothing new. We need to keep our eyes focused on doing what we can to vote out the people causing these problems.
81 days until Virginia’s elections…
Eyes on the prize.
Cheers,
Scott.
(“Who recognizes that we can discuss and work on more than one topic at a time.”)
Burnspbesq
It took America and Americans a long time to figure out that backing P.W. Botha was the wrong thing to do. Not much different with Bibi.
kindness
Well in our own good graces we should at least strip out the credits to buy US military goods, which is half of what we give them. I bet once that is missing it will be the right wing that wants to eliminate the rest. That works for me. I liked an open and inclusive Israel that I don’t know exists any longer.
Joe Falco
What a couple of absolute ghouls. I’m really hoping Bibi gets tossed out in the election and indicted in September. Trump we’ll just to have deal with until next year if we can make it until then. I cannot say it enough times how much I loathe that brain-addled bridge troll of a man.
oldster
You know, these left-wing kids on our college campuses have no respect for free speech!
I tell you, Social Justice Warriors are just trampling all over the First Amendment, which is the centra pillar of America!
When are the liberals going to speak out against this anti-American censorship practiced by their most extreme, radical members?
I hope that Jonathan Haidt and Jordan Peterson and Steven Pinker and Bari Weiss and every other bloviating jackass who has tried to make an issue of free speech on campus will be forced to take responsibility for what Israel is doing: an actual state power, actually censoring the free speech of an individual. Set aside the fact that she is a US citizen and a Member of Congress. Even if none of that were true, this would still be a clearer case of an attack on free speech than anything that a bunch of teenagers at Oberlin have ever done.
debbie
@Another Scott:
Agreed. I can’t imagine anyone’s fooled by their behavior.
Snarki, child of Loki
“If they don’t want Congressional oversight, we should just strip their billions of military aid from the budget.”
Plus, “sorry, we’re out of money, maybe you should try a bake-sale?”
satby
I’ve supported reductions in military aid to Israel for a very long time. Our aid allows them to behave egregiously toward the Palestinians and their neighbors.
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott:
Then why imply with the first part of your comment that the topic is a distraction? Personally, I find the “distraction” narrative wrong-headed. It’s worth discussing when a so-called ally throws in its lot with one political party in a two-party system, as Israel has done for years now. Even more to the point, it’s a grave violation of the separation of powers when a US president encourages said ally to deny members of congress entry. These are not trivialities.
Chief Oshkosh
Seems to me that the whole thing has been a win for Tlaib and Omar. If they’d been allowed in with the delegation, they’d have found and communicated apartheid atrocities. If they are blocked from entry, they win the news cycle (which they did – AND they got a bonus wedge between AIPAC and the Israeli government). The half-assed measure of letting Tlaib in to see her grandmother is just damage control by Bibi’s braintrust. T & O outmaneuvered Bibi and Trump coming and going. They crushed it this week. Bibi and Bozo just stepped on their dicks. Again.
Woodrow/Asim
@Another Scott:
As someone who has given only to Senate/House/Local races this cycle, as someone who’s avoided any public commentary on the POTUS race, I 100% disagree.
This is the kind of unprecedented shit that needs to be called out. It should never be “meh” when it’s a Woman of Color getting this treatment — or, for that matter, when Trump pulled that military plane out from under Pelosi. And we do that because — for now — we know he’d not do it/ask for it to be done to Schumer, or Biden. It sets a stage for normalizing discrimination and disenfranchisement based upon what “looks like” political views, which is bad enough — but we know is really based upon good ol’ racism and sexism.
I know you say “Who recognizes that we can discuss and work on more than one topic at a time.” — but you’re the Very First Comment, and basically saying we should ignore this in your main text. Pick a damn side, Scott.
I say that because history (for example, Reconstruction) shows that if we don’t call these things out now, if we don’t confront the reality of these acts that speak to the racism and sexism at the heart of Trump’s appeal, we will fall back into the old patterns of politics that led us to this moment.
Betty Cracker
Tlaib isn’t going:
A Ghost To Most
@Another Scott: Americans can be counted on to do the right thing, after exhausting all the alternatives.
Eta actually referencing burns’ comment.
geg6
@Betty Cracker:
Good for her, sad and horrible as it is. Trump said that Israel would look weak if they let these duly elected US representatives into Israel. But Tlaib is looking super strong and Bibi and that malignant bozo squatting in the Oval Office look weak and petty beyond any belief.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
I’m sad she won’t see her grandmother, but I’m glad she’s standing on principle.
Chief Oshkosh
@geg6: Pretty much how I see it. Tlaib’s response to Bibi’s half-assery is perfect. She closes out the week a winner, Trump and he close out the week as losers.
BTW, is Trump still at his Bedlam — I mean — Bedminster country club? Wonder if they have a “no-Jews” policy on the course.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: Because, IMHO, it is a distraction. That’s why Donnie demanded that Bibi do it.
That said, I’m all for translating horrible government actions into the effects on individuals if it helps get those action, or that government, changed. C.f. Terri Schiavo. And if this helps in that effort, well, great.
So, again, IMHO, people are right to be outraged. For a while. But thinking that our outrage on this issue is going to be a powerful tool to cut the US’s military aid to Israel, when almost nothing has affected the US’s financial support of Israel since its founding, is naive.
Outrage fatigue is a real thing. Letting Donnie set the agenda every single day is dangerous. We need to have as our main (but not exclusive) focus on doing what we can to win elections.
My $0.02.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jon Marcus
@Betty, I think Tlaib made a couple of mistakes. Promising to be good wasn’t smart. But having groveled and then changing her mind is the worst of both worlds.
lee
I know this is probably swatting a hornet’s nest, but what the heck is BDS and why is there all the butthurt over it?
Another Scott
@lee: Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement. Something like the anti-apartheid movement against South Africa. It’s intended to get Israel to change its policies, or at least punish them for not doing so.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
lee
@Another Scott: Ahhhh. I can see why there is butthurt and it seems the same/similar people are hurting as with apartheid.
Citizen Alan
BDS = Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions. It’s a political movement to encourage entities invested in Israel to withdraw such investment until such time as Israel stops persecution of Palestinians. The same strategy was used to force South Africa to end apartheid, which is why the Israeli government and their lackeys in the US are terrified of it.
Dang, ninja’d!
ET
If Israel wants to be treated like a grown-up it needs to act like one and make its own decisions and not take orders. They have a right to allow/bar anyone, but there is no one who believes they barred the Members for any reason other than tRump.
catclub
@Betty Cracker: wow. I am impressed. She wins the news cycle.
I am angry that this aspect of their visits never came up on the big news programs. Suppose some other country that receives US foreign aid
refused a Congressional delegation?
Brachiator
@debbie:
It is sad, ridiculous, that she was forced to have to choose between the two.
catclub
In economic news of the oh, no, Bill Kristol might be right about something!, sort:
He thinks there will be sky rocketing inflation. Just like all the other times he has predicted skyrocketing inflation.
Betty Cracker
@Another Scott:
I agree it will never happen if we view a discussion of issues like a client state denying members of congress entry to its territory as a distraction or something that can only legitimately discussed for some limited period of time. I believe traditional American attitudes toward Israel are becoming harder to defend precisely because of outrage at the Likud government’s partisan meddling and flagrant human rights abuses, of which this latest incident is only the most recent example.
What does this even mean, in practical purposes for this blog? I don’t mean to pick on you, but this isn’t the first time you’ve criticized discussion of a topic and admonished us to keep our “eyes on the prize.” What does that mean, exactly? You want more fundraising threads?
Brachiator
@Another Scott:
Distraction from what, exactly?
How does this divert attention from an election which is months away?
And why are you so afraid to admit that you really want to focus more attention on Trump’s desire to buy Greenland? ;)
Fair Economist
This outrageous behavior would have made me all #BDS if I weren’t already.
hueyplong
@Jon Marcus: I disagree. Once she fumbled the opportunity to give a “fuck you” response, her next best move was to reverse the mistaken grovel and give the best “fuck you, racists” that remained.
Fair Economist
I think we could get a bill up saying foreign aid will be withheld from any country that refuses entry to US Congresspeople. Moscow Mitch would oppose it but the optics of that would be bad for him.
catclub
@lee:
Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions. Why the butthurt? Israel (and their allies) think it might be effective.
Ksmiami
I’ve been thinking for awhile that if the present and future of Israel is an apartheid, fundamentalist state, then they likely have no future
Yarrow
I don’t see this sort of thing as a distraction. It’s yet another destruction of norms by this administration and another attempt to silence and diminish women and particularly women of color. These things should always be called out.
I do think when a Trump-related story consumes a lot of air time that it’s worth looking around and seeing if there is also something else going on that they don’t want people talking about. If there is such a thing, that issue also needs highlighting.
Luigidaman
We should absolutely deny all aid to Israel under the current situation of deny our elected officials entry. I was born and raised in a mostly (95%) Jewish community and a lot of my old friends feel the same way.
Another Scott
@Betty Cracker: More fundraising threads would be good. More people talking about what they’re doing locally would be good. (I’m unable to do much hands-on, but donate what I can.) But that’s just my opinion and should have much less weight than what FPers actually want to post about.
I’m just a guy commenting here. I don’t mean to derail anything that people want to talk about when I post (my often off-topic) comments. And it doesn’t seem to happen much because people seem to either read it or skip it without other comments on it. That’s fine.
My comment starting here was more a “yelling into the void” kinda thing about NPR’s and the press’s coverage of this. Maybe I’m tone deaf about how important this topic is. Wouldn’t be the first time.
I know we’ll be talking about something else here soon. ;-)
FWIW. Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Yarrow
@Another Scott:
I personally would like to see some threads on the Virginia elections. The last VA elections were great for Dems and I’d love to see D’s in VA keep those gains and gain even more seats. State elections are incredibly important.
Perhaps someone in Virginia could do a guest post? An ActBlue fundraising thread for all Dem candidates there or highlighting a few that need help would be great. A little money should go a long way for state elections.
Frankensteinbeck
Pretty sure the actual reaction of 90% of the country will be “Christ, Trump and Bibi are assholes, but this woman has class,” and she knows it. Now, there will be a sharp divide on who thinks those traits are good or bad, but I doubt Tlaib is humiliated. Pissed off at what an asshole Bibi is, yes, but she already knew he’s a genocidal monster. This kind of screwing around can’t be a surprise. As long as she does it with dignity or scorn, any action she takes on this will be a public relations win.
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
I don’t know how many Americans will blindly accept Trump’s slur that Omar and Tlaib are angry, radical bigots who “hate Israel and all Jewish people.” Voters might not follow Trump all the way, and believe his bullshit that the Democratic Party must disavow these women or be seen as anti-Israel. But the falsehood aimed at these members of Congress may stick. Too many current news stories are framed to suggest that their may be some merit to Trump’s accusations.
Also, Trump is not simply trying to score election points with his slander. He is suggesting that the US must simplistically be pro-Israel, and that Congress cannot be even handed or ever advocate for Palestinians. And again, I don’t know how many people will unthinkingly go along with this.
CaseyL
@Brachiator:
Interesting point. I wonder how many people who didn’t pay much attention to politics now do pay attention.
Ladyraxterinok
@Brachiator: As far as I can tell, white Evangelicals are 100%++ pro Israel. And that’s the group that gave Trump the win in 16.
trollhattan
How many remember Bibi’s “fuck you” directed to Obama in the form of speaking before the House? Were there any consequences to him, Likud or Israel in general?
They can fuck the hell off with pushback against Americans “interfering” with “internal Israeli issues.” They do it to us, continually.
JGabriel
MisterMix @ Top:
My thoughts exactly. Democrats should refuse to approve any financial aid to Israel until Netanyahu and Likud are out of power, and Israel apologizes to the United States.
JGabriel
@Ladyraxterinok:
Russia and James Comey are white evangelicals?
Ruckus
@Chief Oshkosh:
Wonder if Bibi wears golf spikes when he does this, like Bozo does……..
J R in WV
@JGabriel:
Really funny! Good job!!!
sigyn
@Jon Marcus: Such a shame that she let her desire to see her grandmother momentarily override the eleventy-dimensional political chess strategery that Democrats should be focused on every waking moment.
Family? We got no time for family!
cain
@JGabriel:
Not going to happen with people like Schumer in charge. The old school Jewish politicians are likely not going to do anything like that. I know that a lot of the older Jews still have a huge soft corner for Israel. But Israel is not in any danger any time soon, they rule that region. The younger Jews don’t have much good to say about Israel especially given their interference in our politics, and supporting anti-Semitic politicians. eg they support Israel but not Jews.
Anya
@Another Scott: @Another Scott: I don’t get the distraction argument. If the vulgarian bombed a small country into the ground to distract from a terrible news week, do we not talk about it? If he announces he’ll reinstate Jim Crow, do we ignore it? If he calls for T & O’s imprisonment under the patriot act do we continue to be silent? Where do we draw the line on these distractions acts?
Ruckus
One of Bibi’s strengths is that he gets so much foreign aid from us. Not only do we give him the money to purchase military goods, we give him billions of credit to purchase American military goods. The arms mfg/dealers of America want this business, for them it’s good business. No matter what it does to the world. I often wonder how much these businessmen are donating to right wing political entities for their enrichment. We hear about the NRA donating, how much is the defense industries segment donating? They are in basically the same business – the killing business. One may have a modicum of respectability because of national defense but we spend lots and lots of billions of tax dollars on them, often for things we don’t actually need or for things that don’t actually work any where near effectively.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@lee – partly because there are at least 17 states in the United States that have laws requiring any state employees and any contractors the states contract with sign an agreement stating they do not and will not boycott companies that do business with in the occupied territories. A Texas teacher was let go because she refused to sign a statement promising Not to boycott companies that do business in the occupied territories – mondoweiss.net/2019/04/federal-teacher-striking/
“The new clause in her contract came as a result of a 2017 bill passed by the Texas legislature requiring that state agencies not do business with companies that support the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement to boycott Israeli goods. Texas was one of several states to pass the bill, which was criticized for its broad interpretation that in one case, led to victims of Hurricane Harvey applying for relief grants to sign the “no boycott” clause “
Tony Jay
Glancing over this thread it’s worth pointing out that, were we to apply the standard enforced upon the Labour Party here in the UK, a good half of you would be accused of virulent anti-Semitism and the thread itself used to ‘prove’ that the Democratic Party has a serious and endemic anti-Semitism problem that makes it an existential threat to America’s Jews.
Imagine an Alan Dershowitz column in the NYT stamping on a human face, forever.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Tony Jay:
Except AFAIK, there’s been some pretty horrible cases of actual anti-Semitism (not just being anti-Bibi/Likud) in the UK Labour Party, at least at the local level. To be clear, I’m sure there’s a lot more anti-Semitism in the Tory Party, but I’ve yet seen any equivalent in the Democtatic Party. Well, maybe except for that whole Northam blackface scandal, but even that was from 30 years ago
Ruckus
@Anya:
We don’t. We can’t.
Scott’s original post was about this as a distraction and yes it is presented that way by trump. But it is also an accounting of why trump is so horribly unfit for the job he’s not actually doing. And that is vital to convince many that the job he’s doing is horrible, for everyone. The shit that trump does is not even good for him, but then that’s been his entire life. It’s just that now he’s fucking everyone, not just the people he doesn’t pay to do crap for him, he used to be a relative small time grifter with “proclivities.” He’s taken his act to the main stage and is setting the theater on fire. And every single one of us is suffering, including the rich assholes who are so greedy that they can’t seem to see how this will play out, when it gets so bad that the French Revolution will seem like a block party on a Friday night. Because sooner or later everyone will have had enough of working for a few people with both their hands in your pocket, stealing every last penny. And stealing every last right, that so many have died in vein for.
Tony Jay
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Really? Then you won’t mind describing them, showing how the Party failed to deal with them, and explaining how isolated incidents at a local level show how the Labour Party is uniquely anti-Semitic and a danger to Britain’s Jewish population.
That being the accusation I was referring to.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Tony Jay:
Oh. I guess I must have misunderstood your original comment. In that case, yeah, I agree it’s bullshit to say the UK Labour Party is uniquely anti-Semitic or a danger to Britain’s Jewish population. Sorry ^^;
Ben Cisco
@Ruckus: Let me just say that I appreciate the insights you add to these threads.
Mike G
Chuck Schumer promises to write a Sternly Worded Letter right after he greenlights Israel’s massive welfare check as usual.
Netanyahu continues to test the limits of how much he can be a bratty teenager and still receive his trust fund allowance from daddy.
Tony Jay
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
No problem, young fellow. It’s just a bit of a hot button with me.
And my original original point was that a lot of the things said in this thread would and have been used to smear Labour in just the way described.
Ruckus
@Ben Cisco:
Thanks
One does what one can.
Spewing out words is my specialty.
You should see the inside of my head. OK probably not, hell even I don’t always want that.
Immanentize
@Tony Jay: But luckily for the Democratic Party, no one would confuse the discussion here as having any relationship to that fine organization. ?
When I was last in Israel, I had a great conversation with a woman lawyer who represents Arab Israelis in housing disputes — mostly in Acre. The question was, can a Jewish State (one based on theocratic identity if not practice) ever fully embrace legal Equal Protection. Never resolved as a theory, but we both agreed that was not the direction Israel was moving in.
debbie
@Tony Jay:
I believe there’s more than a few states here attempting the same kind of thing.
debbie
@Mike G:
Old men never come off well when they try to act like teenagers.