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And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

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“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

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Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

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Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Let there be snark.

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It looks like winning debates is a black job!

You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Gun nuts / Ding Dong (Open Thread)

Ding Dong (Open Thread)

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Friends, let us savor (even though the fare is provided by Politico):

‘I’m worried’: Allies fear NRA has lost its power in Washington

The National Rifle Association’s internal turmoil is preventing the once-mighty organization from crafting a plan to blunt the latest gun control push, highlighting the group’s weakness at a crucial political moment.

The disarray at the NRA is alarming allies who say President Donald Trump and Congress appear to have a brief opening to pass legislation while the group is so politically feeble it isn’t able to aggressively lobby lawmakers against proposals or hold them accountable for their votes, according to a half-dozen Republicans familiar with the situation…

Multiple Republican Senate offices said they haven’t heard from the NRA, which touts 5 million members. The NRA has been slow to respond to the litany of scandals. And Trump has told aides the NRA is vulnerable and on the verge of being “bankrupt,” according to a Republican close to the White House.

The article says Republicans are worried that meaningful gun safety legislation will be passed in the short term. They needn’t be. Trump has already moved on to blaming mass shootings on the closure of old-timey insane asylums.

It’s perfectly on-brand for Trump to question the death merchant lobbyist’s fiscal health after they gave him $30 million in 2016, but a Venn diagram of gun nuts and Trump supporters would be damned close to a perfect circle, so he’s unlikely to cross the NRA in any significant way.

Still, it’s glorious to see the blood-gargling sociopaths at the NRA engulfed in cascading corruption scandals like common TV preachers. LaPierre seems determined to cling to power, which is great news for people who wish the organization a messy, protracted demise.

An unfavorable election cycle that sweeps NRA toadies out the door might finally wrest political power from the organization’s cold, bloody hands. It wouldn’t solve our gun nut problem, but it sure would make it harder for gun nuts to impose their will on the majority of Americans. A girl can dream, anyway.

Open thread!

Reader Interactions

123Comments

  1. 1.

    Nicole

    An unfavorable election cycle for the NRA might result in Congress permitting funding for studies of gun violence and those studies actually being able to make suggestions based on findings. That would be an excellent start.

  3. 3.

    Spanky

    If you looked at “The NRA” in terms of money flowing in, I’m pretty sure it would be about 95% gun manufacturers and 5% everybody else. IOW, I suspect those 5 million (a pretty small group for a nationwide org) have very little leverage, both within the NRA and electorally.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    Saw the title and immediately thought, “Avon caliing!”

    The persistent effect of Madison Avenue, eh?

  7. 7.

    TS (the original)

    The article says Republicans are worried that meaningful gun safety legislation will be passed in the short term

    That a major political party would worry that gun safety be enforced – it is not only the president* who has mental health issues.

  8. 8.

    A Ghost To Most

    If former Gov. John Hickenlooper runs for U.S. Senate, he will immediately have a large lead over current front-runners in the Democratic field, according to a new poll.

    Six hundred likely Democratic primary voters in the state were polled and 61% preferred Hickenlooper, compared to 10% for Mike Johnston and 8% for Andrew Romanoff. Fifteen percent were undecided and 6% favored Secretary of State Jena Griswold, who said Friday that she isn’t running in 2020.

    denverpost

    Good and bad. Hick would kill Gardner, but he’s a militant moderate.

  11. 11.

    lgerard

    Certainly enjoyed today’s stories about Tammy Faye LaPierre!

    Sometimes it is just the petty corruption that brings down the whole house

  12. 12.

    MattF

    LaPierre has managed to defeat a number of RW stars, including Oliver North and Chris Cox— he may have a secret sauce, but if the NRA goes down, I’d bet that he goes down with it. I’m guessing that they’re all pining for the days of Charleton Heston.

  13. 13.

    Joe Falco

    With all the articles about how Millennials kill everything, I would be glad to take credit for killing the NRA.

  18. 18.

    zhena gogolia

    Good one, Amy!

    @amyklobuchar
    Follow Follow @amyklobuchar
    More
    The difference between Donald Trump and Greenland? Greenland is not for sale.

  20. 20.

    BC in Illinois

    From CNN: ” Here’s what you should know about the gun safety rallies happening across the US this weekend ”

    From Shannon Watts:

    Have you signed up yet to attend a #RecessRally this weekend? Do it now! Text RALLY to 644-33. It will take every single one of us getting off of the sidelines in order to beat the gun lobby.

    Find a Rally Near You:
    https://act.everytown.org/event/august-recess-2019/search/

    In St Louis, we meet at the Arch at 12. (If you want to find me, I’ll be the one in the red shirt.)

  21. 21.

    debbie

    The article says Republicans are worried that meaningful gun safety legislation will be passed in the short term.

    If this doesn’t show what a craven bunch of cowards the GOP has become, nothing will.

  23. 23.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Spanky:

    If you looked at “The NRA” in terms of money flowing in, I’m pretty sure it would be about 95% gun manufacturers and 5% everybody else.

    If you’re referring to US flow, then maybe. But for years the NRA has been a channel for Russian money to flow to Republican operations.

  27. 27.

    BC in Illinois

    From the Tampa Bay Times:

    “How do you tell a 10-year-old little girl who got a Ruger 10/22 with a pink stock for her birthday that her rifle is an assault weapon and she has to turn it over to government or be arrested for felony possession?” [NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer] said.

    Think of the children!

  29. 29.

    Patricia Kayden

    The NRA may be less powerful but until I see Republicans actually passing legislation regarding gun control, I wouldn’t count them out.

  30. 30.

    mrmoshpotato

    @zhena gogolia: Greenland is also not Putin’s bitch who’s been sucking the Kremlin’s asshole since 1987.

    *Full page newspaper ads*
    “Uhhhhhh….NATO’s a total loser! Sad!”

  31. 31.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Patricia Kayden:

    The NRA may be less powerful but until I see Republicans actual passing legislation regarding gun control, I wouldn’t count them out.

    Don’t hold your breath.

  32. 32.

    Jay

    @Steve in the ATL:

    https://www.reuters.com › article
    U.S. firearms distributor files bankruptcy as gun sales fall under …
    Jun. 10, 2019 · USC carries such brands as Glock, Remington, Ruger and Smith & Wesson. The firearms industry has faced pressure on sales after Trump’s 2016 election eased gun control fears, even as a spate of U.S. mass shootings has prompted calls for more curbs on gun ownership (For a link to the report, click reut.rs/2MEnMDc).

    By some accounts, the US hit “peak gun” during the Obama years as the 3% ammosexuals filled their basements to the brim,

    Since then there have been sales, mergers and bankruptcies.

    I doubt that much of the cash the NRA gave Wussolinni has American sources.

  33. 33.

    Brachiator

    @lamh36:
    Fonda was 79 years old. Somehow seems too young. I associate him with the 60s and rebellion.

    A little tidbit from his biography

    In 1966, Fonda was arrested in the Sunset Strip riot, which the police ended forcefully. The band Buffalo Springfield protested the department’s handling of the incident in their song “For What It’s Worth”.

    Lot of discussion recently about Woodstock, the Dylan concert at the Isle of Wight in 1969. Fonda and Easy Rider, definitely part of the times.

  35. 35.

    lumpkin

    Looks like kayfabe to me. IF they pass anything it will be meaningless. Dupes at NYT et al will fall for it. Takes the heat off repubs until at some point in the future they can point and say “see? Gun control doesn’t work.”

  36. 36.

    Sure Lurkalot

    Johnston is moderate compared to Romanoff, and without Hickenlooper, may have a decent shot. I would prefer someone to balance out Bennet, but Hickenlooper is fairly popular outside of our liberal enclaves. I think Bennet seeks comity but is more realistic than Hickenlooper in its pursuit…his experience and their friendship may help Hickenlooper become a decent senator. Cory has to go and having two democratic senators, as well as state trifecta, hopefully will push the square state ever leftward.

  38. 38.

    Brachiator

    OT. Wells Fargo seems less interested in banking than in continually coming up with new and innovative ways of stealing from their customers.

    Xavier Einaudi did not want to wait for Wells Fargo to send him a check.

    The bank informed Einaudi that it was closing all 13 of the checking accounts it provided his roofing company, CRV Construction, for a reason it called “confidential.” The letter said the accounts would be closed on June 27, and he would be mailed a check for the balance in his accounts.

    Einaudi went to his branch and collected the money, so he did not have to wait for a check to arrive in the mail. But the accounts did not close on the preset date.

    For weeks after the date the bank said the accounts would be closed, it kept some of them active. Payments to his insurer, to Google for online advertising and to a provider of project management software were paid out of the empty accounts in July. Each time, the bank charged Einaudi a $35 overdraft fee…

    By the middle of July, he owed the bank nearly $1,500….

    Current and former bank employees said Einaudi was charged because of the way Wells Fargo’s computer system handles closed accounts: An account the customer believes to be closed can stay open if it has a balance, even one below zero. And each time a transaction is processed for an overdrawn account, Wells Fargo tacks on a fee.

    The problem has gone unaddressed by the bank despite complaints from customers and employees, including one in the bank’s debt-collection department who grew concerned after taking in an estimated $100,000 in overdraft fees over eight months.

    It is not clear how many people have been affected, but aggrieved customers have brought complaints to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, griped on the discussion sites Reddit and Quora, and voiced their displeasure through the “Community” section of Wells Fargo’s website — a public comment feature that is now disabled.

    A spokesman for the bank said he could not comment on specific accounts for privacy reasons, but said the bank reviews accounts to protect customers and was “committed to doing so in ways that minimize the risk and impact to our customers.”

    “As a company, we are focused on continually improving this process,” said the spokesman, Jim Seitz.

    And the Republicans keep telling us we don’t need consumer protection or regulation of the financial industry.

    http://m.startribune.com/customers-still-charged-fees-after-wells-fargo-closed-their-accounts/547729622/

  41. 41.

    kindness

    I wouldn’t count my chickens. If there is one group of stupid that is even more stupid than the rest, it’s the gun humpers. They will throw money at the NRA just like crooked preachers.

  42. 42.

    Danielx

    @BC in Illinois:

    Actually there are any number of ads out there showing how a Ruger 10/22 can be tricked out with 30 round magazines and tactical bullshit….so I can’t feel too bad for the ten year old moppet

  48. 48.

    Roger Moore

    people who wish the organization a messy, protracted demise.

    I would be happier with an immediate, catastrophic failure that causes massive collateral damage.

  53. 53.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Let’s hold off on dancing on the NRA’s grave until it is deader than Jacob Marley.

  56. 56.

    Barbara

    Sometimes I allow myself to dream of a November 2020 where I am singing this song at the top of my lungs. At least once a day.

  57. 57.

    NotMax

    @A Ghost To Most

    Voting against one’s party leadership when they are in the majority is a much steeper hill to climb than when they’re in the minority. Also too, Colorado (with apologies to Mr. Cole) ain’t West Virginia.

  60. 60.

    zhena gogolia

    @A Ghost To Most:

    It’s very important to have a certain number of Democrats in the Senate in order to get things done that Democrats want done. Some of those Democrats are going to be very liberal, if they live in predominantly liberal states. If they live in more mixed states, like West Virginia or Colorado, they might have to be a little farther right in order to get elected to the Senate. Then things like the ACA can get passed. So I would prefer for moderate Hickenlooper to defeat CORY FUCKING GARDNER than to have a very liberal candidate lose. I know exactly what I wish for.

    ETA: Slovak-English-German-American here.

  64. 64.

    Barbara

    @NotMax: Nope. Denver County was in the top 5 of counties by margin that weren’t “majority minority ” to vote for Obama in 2012.

  65. 65.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @NotMax: Yikes. But no matter where you live, there’s always something. I’ve had the pleasure to visit almost all the islands of Hawaii…didn’t encounter any scorpions or centipedes, but oh my, were there plenty of feral cats and mean ass chickens on my last visit to your paradise.

  68. 68.

    J R in WV

    @Jay:

    Sadly, we no longer have any Democratic members of the House of Representatives from West Virginia. None.

    So Fuck all those Republicans who seem to be fine, just fine, with all the illegal and immoral acts of the current Republican Trump administration!!!

  69. 69.

    Sister Golden Bear

    Today’s edition of watching my rights being taken away in real-time:

    The Trump Administration Asked The Supreme Court To Legalize Firing Workers Just For Being Transgender

    Although the administration was expected to take the stance — and had previously said firing workers on the basis of gender identity is legal under federal law — the latest court filing asks the nation’s top court to establish federal case law in a potentially sweeping setback for LGBTQ rights nationwide.

    The case is a dispute over the word “sex.” Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 bans workplace discrimination because of sex, but the court’s justices have never decided what, precisely, the term means for LGBTQ workers.

    The Justice Department’s brief on Friday contends the word refers to a person’s “biological sex” and, further, that transgender discrimination isn’t addressed by a 1989 Supreme Court ruling that found Title VII bans sex stereotyping.

    If the SCOTUS agrees, aside from being disastrous for LGBTQ people in itself, and trans people in particular, the “biological sex” argument is a stalking horse for Fundabigots to get the law changed so that one’s gender is tied to the sex one was assigned at birth and can never be changed — with the aim of not only preventing trans people from ever changing their legal ID, but also retroactively changing the legal gender for those of us who’ve already changed it. So that trans people are outted, in order that we can be targeted with all the other forms of legalized discrimination — with the full weight of the government behind it — that they’re also implementing in order to eradicate trans people from public life.

  70. 70.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:
    I got a $5 gift card from BofA as a discount on getting my car serviced. I tried for over 1/2 hr to get the card authorized for use. It wouldn’t let me. I would have liked it better if they had just kept the five dollars and sent me an “Enjoy the nothing you are getting from us!” letter.
    I used to be a customer of BofA, none of this is any surprise to me at all. It was very enjoyable to take my money out and put it in a small local bank with a 5 star rating. If I remember correctly BofA had a 2 star rating at the time. The teller asked me why I was leaving, and I told her. She didn’t say anything but she did nod her head approvingly. I have used this approach ever since and it is always far more acceptable and enjoyable experience.

  74. 74.

    Scamp Dog

    @A Ghost To Most: Hickenlooper isn’t as liberal as I’d like, but he’s no Joe Manchin. I plan on voting for someone else in the primary, but would happily vote for Hickenlooper in the general election.

  76. 76.

    jl

    Hasn’t Trump already reneged on his second promise in the wake of a mass shooting to do anything, anything at all, on gun control?
    Trump got on the phone and like a big boss, talked great deelz with them. NRA told him to quit the crap on that, and trump folded like a cheap broke legged card table.
    Now I read Trump is wandering around babbling about state power to lock up people that it decides are crazy or dangerous, which is scary when coming from the Trumpsters. Assuming anything will come of it before his mind wanders off some other whim, like buying Greenland.

  77. 77.

    zhena gogolia

    @Jay:

    I’m kind of astounded that only one out of five CT congresspeople has signed on. I wrote to DeLauro a long time ago. I don’t know what’s holding her up.

  80. 80.

    Van Buren

    @Brachiator: This concerns me, as my son closed his WF account today.
    And then received an email warning him that his balance was zero and he was subject to charges if he did not correct this.

  81. 81.

    Marcopolo

    @BC in Illinois: I am actually free tomorrow after being busy on weekend days for the past month so I will be down at the Arch for the Gun Sense rally. If I see you I will say hi. For anyone else who comes to this thread after me, even if you can’t make a rally please consider making a one time or small monthly continuing contribution to Mom’s Demand Action. They had volunteers working on every campaign I knocked doors for in 2018 (so like 10 local, state, and national races) doing door knocking, making calls, and lots of other activities. Their members/volunteers are committed, amazing, hard working folks and the organization itself is well run. I’ve made this post a link to their Act-Blue page.

  86. 86.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Let’s hold off on dancing on the NRA’s grave until it is deader than Jacob Marley.

    And may the NRA’s Powers-That-Be experience the same unending remorse as did Jacob Marley.

    “Business!” cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. “Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business….”

  87. 87.

    Marcopolo

    @Steve in the ATL: Don’t make me blush. I honestly think the vast majority of BJ jackals are good folks–certainly all the MO folks like BC, who I met back at the end of June.

    When’s the next time you are coming through our neck of the woods?

  90. 90.

    Ruckus

    @sdhays:
    Understand.
    But that’s as much as I can type without mostly four letter words describing the parents. A fucking assault rife for a 10 yr old? I actually have nothing but swear words to say.

  91. 91.

    Yarrow

    @zhena gogolia: @Citizen Alan: I’m with you guys. I’m all about the practical. What seats do we need to retain and win to take the Senate? What do we need to do to win the electoral college? What do we have to do to keep the majority in the House and even grow it? I want to focus on those things. All the rest is great but it’s gravy. I want to win, baby.

  92. 92.

    Mainmata

    Betty Cracker rocks! Love your stuff. More to the point, the attention needs to be on an assault weapon ban or at least a really severe tax (1000%) on bullets for those guns. Also, banning internet sales and gun show sales. I know fat chance of that happening.

  93. 93.

    Amir Khalid

    @NotMax:
    Do you remember that one gunmaker had on its website a photo gallery of children wielding their brightly-coloured plastic My First Rifle? They had to take the photo gallery down because there was a public outcry, but they still sell children’s rifles — a class of product that would not even exist in a sane country.

  94. 94.

    kindness

    They were called Jarts. The company that made lawn darts called them that. We had them as kids. Yea we did some stupid stuff with them but we never ended up with any of them stuck in our bodies. This was the late 60’s mind you. It wasn’t too far along that kids started getting them stuck in their heads though. We watched where they went when we tossed them. Apparently a bunch of kids did not. It didn’t kill them. Just left them with a concussion and a hole in their skulls. I call it Darwinism. Maybe we need to bring it back.

    And giving a 10 year old a 22 rifle might have been OK 60 or 100 years ago. Not now. Having said that the Ruger 10/22 is not an assault rifle by any definition. Sure you can add all kinds of stuff to make it look like one but the barrel isn’t made for continuous rapid firing. It heats up fast and then the thing isn’t accurate at all. My first gun was a Ruger 10/22. Bought one in the late 70’s. It’s a great 22 for plinking & target shooting which is what I used it for. I still call myself a liberal.

  95. 95.

    Marcopolo

    @Yarrow: Dems need to take four Senate seats to flip the Senate (or three and the Presidency). Here is a Act_Blue donation list of all of the potentially flippable senate seats for 2020 (plus Doug Jones in AL which we would need to hold). Folks can either make one donation that will get split among all the races or they can click through to make donations to specific races.

    Flip The Senate is a fund for the Democratic target flips in 2020 and the D-held vulnerable seats (Doug Jones-AL basically) we need to hold in order to regain a Democratic Senate Majority. Every donation is split evenly among the states.

    And here’s the BEST part, your generous donation will go to the primary winner of each state’s race! So you don’t have to worry about backing the wrong person with your hard earned dollars.

    Flip the Senate 2020

    I have this page bookmarked and I send it around to all my friends every month.

  96. 96.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Marcopolo: it might be a while—that union decertified! Wasn’t even my doing; the union execs treated their members like shit and the members said “basta!” Well, the Italian members did. At least in my imagination.

    There are lots of good people here, but you are one of the most active, which is inspiring.

  97. 97.

    Yarrow

    @Marcopolo: Thanks! That’s a great link. We should highlight it here. I think I’m more interested in the Senate than I am the presidential race at this point.

  99. 99.

    different-church-lady

    @BC in Illinois:

    “How do you tell a 10-year-old little girl who got a Ruger 10/22 with a pink stock for her birthday that her rifle is an assault weapon and she has to turn it over to government or be arrested for felony possession?” [NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer] said.

    Well, first you get Child Protective Services to take her into protective custody, and then you go through the incredibly difficult task of explaining that her parents are dangerous imbeciles and a whole lot of the things they’ve been teaching her about the world are very very wrong.

  100. 100.

    different-church-lady

    @kindness:

    I call it Darwinism. Maybe we need to bring it back.

    Bring it back? Hell, we need give it free license and buy it an ice cream.

  101. 101.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Yarrow: I survived my expedition into the interior of Texas and returned safely to my blue, er, red state. Saw only one rebel flag there, but did get an earful from a couple of union presidents about the Clinton Kill Squad. I suggested they switch from the hate talk radio station to one of the dozens of country music radio stations. Or get crazy and try one of the dozens of mariachi stations.

  106. 106.

    Adam L Silverman

    @BC in Illinois: @Danielx: @OldDavd: @Steve in the ATL: @kindness: @different-church-lady: @Jay: I’m late to this, largely because I just fished one of the comments about this out of moderation. While Marion Hammer is bugfuck nuts, there are variants of the Ruger 10/22, specifically the three Talo Distributor Exclusive Tactical models, that cosmetically resemble an AR pattern rifle, they really aren’t an assault rifle beyond the cosmetics. Yes, they are autoloading semi-automatics. But they are a .22 long rifle rimfire rifle that requires a pull of the trigger in order for each and every bullet to be fired from the magazine. And yes, you can get extended magazines for them. To be honest, the biggest use for these AR pattern .22 lr rifles is in law enforcement training. The Ruger, Smith & Wesson, and HK versions are roughly the same weight and manual of arms as an AR 15, which is in common use by law enforcement in the US, but because the ammunition is cheaper, they are significantly more cost effective to train with.

  108. 108.

    Jay

    Beauty out of sorrow. Hundreds come to El Paso for Margie Reckards funeral service. Her husband, Antonio, invited the public to attend, since he said he had no family nearby. Look at the flowers people sent from all over the country. ♥️pic.twitter.com/z1UrJHH7Ps— Lori AKA Storm ?? (@DemocracyStorm) August 17, 2019

  109. 109.

    Jay

    I hope CBP and ICE are taking their responsibility seriously?Didn't turn up to the status conference?Vague ideas on their progress from the govt Attorney?Confusion over how many lists they're working onGovt can't even track the *number of lists* of separated kids? pic.twitter.com/fkXWCRCLit— BebopSpaceCowgirl ????❤️? (@jomareewade) August 16, 2019

  113. 113.

    Richard Guhl

    Let’s be absolutely clear here. The NRA is a gun god death cult. They are not to be reasoned with. And trying to explain how reasonable the proposed gun control measures are is an exercise in futility.
    Let’s enact the gun control measures that exist in Israel, and be done with it.

  114. 114.

    Jay

    @different-church-lady:

    The ammosexuals decided a few years ago, their their tiny female market was the result of gunz and camo not being pretty enough, so they slapped pink and pink camo on everything.

    Didn’t work for some reason, other than as a solid identifier of a Gun Nutz people should stay away from.

  117. 117.

    Bill Arnold

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    The Justice Department’s brief on Friday contends the word refers to a person’s “biological sex”

    That’s a terrifying progression. FWIW, it would be easy to convince very large numbers of people to boycott any companies or organizations that indulged in such “freedoms”. I certainly would participate. (E.g. Fox News opinion show advertisers are easy to avoid, so far.) Are any such boycotts active or queued up?
    (Personal note: those who promote these beliefs haven’t a clue and can fuck off, to put it politely. Mentally, I am fairly gender fluid (default male-ish), even from instant to instant. Took some serious willful practice (and some prodding). Among other things, it makes day-to-day casual(or deep) empathy with other people easier. Any religious system where empathy is considered a religious crime is at least broken and wrong.)

  118. 118.

    Bill Arnold

    So, context from Betty’s comment at top, Reuters: Trump blames mass shootings on mentally ill, calls for more mental institutions (August 15, 2019)

    President Donald Trump said on Thursday he supports meaningful background checks for gun buyers, but he said that those responsible for recent mass shootings were mentally ill and the United States should build more mental institutions.

    Later on Thursday at a rally in Manchester, New Hampshire, Trump said it was necessary to consider building new institutions for the mentally ill.

    Trump is misguided; the US is quite obviously the wrong place to build mental institutions to treat people afflicted with those particular mental disorders (curiously, I haven’t found them in the DSM) that causes them to commit mass shootings. I suggest Italy, with 1/9 the rate of the US per capita, or Russia, 1/7 the US rate, or Germany, 1/5 the US rate. (eyeball approximate ratios)
    Mass Shootings By Country 2019

    (snark if not clear. Kept meaning to do this, but the statistics haven’t cooperated. I loath John Lott but at least he uses real numbers.)

  119. 119.

    Brachiator

    @Richard Guhl:

    Let’s enact the gun control measures that exist in Israel, and be done with it.

    This would be an interesting strategy. How could conservatives object? They think that God spoke to Moses from the Gunsmoke Bush, and that Jesus never would have been crucified had he been packing a concealed weapon.

    Some of Israel’s gun laws.

    Israelis must meet a detailed list of criteria (Hebrew link) to be allowed to own a firearm. They must ask the state for a license, are permitted only one gun at a time, and must even ask for permission to sell their gun. And the Firearms Licensing Department is no rubber stamp: Roughly 40 percent of requests are rejected.

    Indeed, before even requesting a license, Israelis must meet minimum age requirements, be in good health and of sound mind, and have no criminal record, among other preconditions.

    There’s more. Once they are granted the right to carry a gun, Israelis are limited to just 50 bullets in their possession at any given time. They must shoot or return old bullets before they can buy new ones, a process that can only take place at tightly regulated shooting ranges where each bullet’s sale is carefully registered. The types of guns permitted also depend on the reason for the license – i.e., a veterinarian may only purchase a gun approved by the government for the killing of animals, a hunter’s license only permits the purchase of a firearm from an approved firearms list kept by the Parks Authority, and so forth.

    Links

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/comparing-america-to-israel-on-gun-laws-is-dishonest-and-revealing/

  121. 121.

    J R in WV

    WE didn’t take time to visit, but when we NE Spain and SW France, I noticed a Beretta Shop very near our hotel in Bilbao, SP. Looked like a very upscale shop in an expensive part of town. Probably a ton of really expensive double barrel shotguns and pistols… just guessing. Now I wish I had browsed the shop, just to see what they were selling to the local Spanish folks.

  122. 122.

    kindness

    I’m thankful to you all at carrying out this conversation without pillorying each other over minor differences. Yea, I still own my 10/22. It’s locked up and I haven’t shot it in years. I support full background checks not only for any purchase of a gun but also any transfer of a gun as a gift. I went through the 2 week (originially, I think it’s 10 days now here in CA) for mine. I think limiting clip/magazine size to 10 max is the quickest most effective way to limit the nuts who rampage. I don’t support grandfathering old larger magazines. They should be turned over to the police, national guard or military to use if they can. People who have a history of mental issues or have had convictions for beating up on others should also have their guns taken away from them. Assault weapons (AR/AK stuff) should not be in civilian hands. So I’m not a purist on the issue. But I do believe in that whole ‘Well Regulated’ part of the 2nd Amendment. And those regulations should change with the times. Here in California they have mostly. Across the country though…not so much. Guns can be good tools if used properly. Guns should not be ego enhancers. If you are using a gun to boost your self esteem or confidence, you are doing it wrong. And honestly that is what I see the NRA playing to. It’s like Viagra to those guys and they push it as such. Wrong. That isn’t the proper use of what can be a very dangerous thing.

  123. 123.

    Uncle Cosmo

    Does it unnerve anyone other than me to see the Munchkin soldiers doing the goosestep? (Not an overly exaggerated Stechschritt, but even so.) Kinda like the time at the late lamented local German beerhall, when my friend Neil (also late lamented) stuck up his head as the band launched into a polka & said, You hear that? I said yeah, what is it, & he replied, “Die Fahne Hoch”, bka the Horst Wessel Song. It actually worked in polka time, as an instrumental – but even so…

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