Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Decision time: keep arguing about the last election, or try to win the next one?

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

We do not need to pander to people who do not like what we stand for.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

Come on, man.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Jack Smith: “Why did you start campaigning in the middle of my investigation?!”

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Reality always gets a vote in the end.

A fool as well as an oath-breaker.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Fight them, without becoming them!

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / GOP Clown Car Open Thread: The Pence v. Haley Undercard

GOP Clown Car Open Thread: The Pence v. Haley Undercard

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A point & mock diversion from all the potentially deadly battles. If fighting amongst themselves wasn’t absolutely a feature of every mad autocrat’s court, I’d blame this minor fooferaw on would-be macher Nick Ayers. Politico:

… While the two could hardly be more different — Pence is a 60-year-old social conservative, she is a 47-year-old daughter of Indian immigrants — those close to them say they have long had a warm relationship. Haley traveled to Indiana in 2012 to help Pence with his gubernatorial campaign, then returned three years later to headline a state GOP dinner while he was embroiled in a competitive reelection race.

The two also shared an adviser in Nick Ayers, a prominent consultant who spent four years as executive director of the Republican Governors Association. And their offices gave them access to the same pool of powerful donors who fund races for governor.

The recent divisions have been fueled partly by the rumors that Haley could replace Pence on the ticket and the fact she took so long to address them. Some top Pence aides said they think Haley or an ally was behind the Wall Street Journal op-ed, which a representative for the former ambassador denied…

Further complicating the dynamic between Pence and Haley is the role of Ayers, who remains close to both. Senior Republicans want to see whether the 37-year-old operative, who stepped down as Pence’s chief of staff at the end of last year to return to his native Georgia, picks one over the other.

Former colleagues of Ayers, who has deep ties to the donor class, say he hasn’t chosen sides. He speaks with Pence and Haley regularly and was seen with both at the Aspen retreat, which was hosted by the RGA. A few weeks later, Ayers and Pence appeared together onstage before a national group of young conservative leaders.

The skirmish offers a potential preview of what’s in store for the GOP after 2020 — a fight over the direction of the party. Pence has been the president’s most unwavering ally since he joined the ticket in 2016, even when Trump’s policies and personal conduct veered far from the principles Pence had long been known for. Haley, who endorsed Marco Rubio in 2016 and was critical of Trump during the campaign, has shown a willingness to break from the administration. She has urged the GOP to be more inclusive, representing potentially a new direction for the party…

TL, DR — In their hearts, none of these people expect Trump to win reelection, even assuming he makes it to 2020, so they’re already prepping to carve up the remnants of the GOP for their own profit. Good news for us Democrats, as far as I’m concerned.


Reader Interactions

110Comments

  2. 2.

    AThornton

    Recent polling has women going for Generic Democrat versus Trump by +32.

    That’s disastrous for the GOP all along the line since it will depress loosely attached GOP voter turnout.

  6. 6.

    Patricia Kayden

    Haley brought down the Confederate flag after Black worshippers were shot to death in Charleston. No way would she be useful to Trump.

  8. 8.

    Baud

    I don’t think Haley can get away with being as obsequious to Trump as Pence, particularly on immigration issues.

  9. 9.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Haley will be the GOP vice presidential candidate if Trump feels like it. Strategy is moot. This depends entirely on whatever fantasy takes hold in Trump’s head. No one he picks will move the needle even 1% in any direction.

  10. 10.

    Viva BrisVegas

    @Patricia Kayden:

    No way would she be useful to Trump.

    Every time Trump said something racist, he could point at his VP and say, “Look how unracist I am”.

    Can’t do that with Pence.

  11. 11.

    HeleninEire

    The US open is a mile and a half from my house. The OLD US open is a block from my house. Came into the pub to watch Serena Williams v. Sherapova. The internet told me it would start at 7. Not so much.

    Also wasn’t Sherapova the best of the best? Why is she against Williams in the first round?

  13. 13.

    JPL

    @lollipopguild: IMO they’d jump on board for Haley for VP, because it could because females would vote for trump if she were on the ticket. They are willing to do what is necessary.

  17. 17.

    cokane

    It’s not just working class white men. I really wish the media would get off this rust belt romanticism. Plenty of upper middle class whites voted Trump and really are the ones who form the base of the party. They also have racist views.

  18. 18.

    Mike in NC

    Pence has mastered being an obsequious toady, a role Trump demands he play. I read that in reality Pence and Haley despise one another.

  19. 19.

    geg6

    Yeah, because those wimmin are so stupid, they’ll vote for any woman a Trump could put up. And how does Haley even imagine that she wouldn’t be throwing her career away by teaming up with that piece of shit?

    I’ll never understand Republicans, especially female Republicans.

  20. 20.

    Cacti

    @HeleninEire:

    Also wasn’t Sherapova the best of the best? Why is she against Williams in the first round?

    Sharapova was a PED cheater who couldn’t even beat Serena with the help of drugs.

    Serena is 19-3 all-time vs. the ruski steroid mutant.

    ETA: never mind, I saw your follow up post.

  21. 21.

    billcinsd

    @HeleninEire: Sharapova was ranked #1 back in 2005. She is currently ranked 87. She has made one quarterfinal at a major since her doping suspension in 2016. She hasn’t made a semifinal or a final since 2015. She also missed 4 months, eta: this year, with a shoulder injury. When you aren’t ranked it’s a draw to see who you play.

  24. 24.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    I don’t think Haley can get away with being as obsequious to Trump as Pence

    I think she can provided she wears skimpy enough clothing.

  27. 27.

    hells littlest angel

    “Vice President Pence has been a dear friend of mine for years.”

    If you don’t believe her, ask the chaperone of their friendship, Mother.

  28. 28.

    TenguPhule

    The Department of Homeland Security said Monday it is creating a program to prevent voter registration databases from being infected with ransomware to avoid election meddling in 2020.

    The effort is being led by the Cybersecurity Infrastructure Security Agency, or CISA, a division of the Homeland Security Department.

    “Recent history has shown that state and county governments and those who support them are targets for ransomware attacks,” said Christopher Krebs, CISA’s director. “That is why we are working alongside election officials and their private sector partners to help protect their databases and respond to possible ransomware attacks.”

    I have little confidence in this initiative. And Republicans have nobody to blame but themselves for that.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    FEC Vice Chair Matt Petersen resigns, fought internet regs, leaves agency in voting limbo. Championed 1st Amendment and the little guy. Told Trump, ‘The legitimacy of government action is bolstered when everyone feels they have received a fair shake.’ washex.am/2Zp9bwM

    View image on Twitter
    34
    5:24 AM – Aug 26, 2019

    And forget about enforcing the election rules now. Unless you’re a Democrat.

    The Center for Public Integrity reports:

    Petersen’s resignation, first reported by the Washington Examiner, will throw the FEC into turmoil for weeks — and perhaps months — as the nation enters the teeth of 2020 presidential and congressional elections.

    For now, the FEC can’t conduct meetings.

    It can’t slap political scofflaws with fines.

    It can’t make rules.

    It can’t conduct audits and approve them.

    It can’t vote on the outcome of investigations.

    And while staff will continue to post campaign finance reports and attend to day-to-day functions, the commission itself can’t offer official advice to politicians and political committees who seek it.

  32. 32.

    Gin & Tonic

    Went for a follow-up with my surgeon today – he’s been away doing a fellowship at Mayo for a year, and we had a date for when he got back. Looked at the x-rays and said they looked “awesome.” That’s a direct quote. So is “ideal outcome.”

    I’m happily enjoying a cocktail.

  33. 33.

    John Revolta

    They’re holding Haley out for the Veep spot on the Ryan 2024 ticket. Unless of course Trumpf doesn’t make it to 2020, in which case they’ll probably try it then. Without Trumpf, Pence ain’t worth a shilling.

  35. 35.

    PsiFighter37

    As others mentioned – it really doesn’t matter who is second fiddle. The election will be about Donnie, and putting a token like Haley on the ticket won’t get either more women or more minorities to vote for them (except for maybe some small number of Hindu nationalists).

  36. 36.

    Jeffro

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Strategy is moot. This depends entirely on whatever fantasy takes hold in Trump’s head. No one he picks will move the needle even 1% in any direction.

    Probably true, but let’s watch as he starts floating random 2020 VP screwball picks, thinking that by putting (female) or (African American) or (whomever) on the ticket, it’s going to save him. Oh and pass the popcorn por favor ;)

  37. 37.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    Shooting the gap between Clovis and Roswell, NM. Altitude 36,000 feet. Outside temp −54°. Ground speed 501 mph. Pesky headwind still 25 mph. Six hundred miles to LAS. ETA about 7:00 PDT.

  39. 39.

    Jeffro

    It’s amazing that Pence thinks he’ll still be standing, and viable, once trumpov falls…that Haley thinks there will be a cohesive GOP after trumpov falls…that Ryan might think anyone would ever buy his BS after enabling trumpov at every turn…

    …also amazing that all of them think that the GOP will have a path of any kind to a majority in this country, post-trumpov, or that we won’t hold them accountable for all the damage they let trumpov do to our democracy. SELLOUT TRUMPUBLICANS – now, THAT fits on a bumper sticker, doesn’t it?

  45. 45.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Gin & Tonic:

    This is for the arm (wrist?) you mangled? Cheers and a hearty “Clean margins!” from the skin cancer table across the bar.

  46. 46.

    Wapiti

    @PsiFighter37: I think her parents are/were Sikhs. If Hindu nationalists vote for Trump, they’re not doing it because of some Sikh-Christian convert.

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    Some video footage from outside Epstein’s cell is unusable, people familiar with investigation say

    Wapo headline.

    I stand by my statement that this is the worst case of suicide I have ever seen.

  49. 49.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Jeffro: I’m not so sure that Trump will fail. He’s an awful president but Congressional Republicans still defend him.

  50. 50.

    Duane

    @geg6: Haley won’t hitch her caboose to the Trumpov train wreck. She quit the UN position to distance herself from him. Wait four years when the Republican nomination is open and run for president.

  51. 51.

    Yarrow

    @Baud:

    I don’t think Haley can get away with being as obsequious to Trump as Pence, particularly on immigration issues.

    I disagree. She’s already shown how obsequious she can be to Javanka.

    “I can’t say enough good things about Jared and Ivanka,” Haley said in the Oval Office about Kushner and the president’s daughter. “Jared is such a hidden genius that no one understands.”

    Haley elaborated on Kushner: “I mean to redo the NAFTA deal the way he did.… What I’ve done working with him on the Middle East peace plan, it is so unbelievably well done.”

    She said all that while sitting next to Trump. She’ll have no problem being an obsequious toady to him.

  52. 52.

    Mai naem mobile

    The current GOP is not voting for a brown woman for their standard bearer. Nah gonna happen. I don’t care how white Nikki Haley acts. An attractive white woman is about as far as they will go.

  57. 57.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi): Yes. this my arm that I had an ORIF (open reduction with internal fixation) for. The x-ray tech lined everything up today, shot the first picture and said “oh, my goodness.” He didn’t realize how extensive the hardware was and didn’t aim the exposure correctly. But “ideal outcome” is akin to “clean margins” so I’ll raise a glass to that as well.

  58. 58.

    J R in WV

    @Mike in NC:

    I read that in reality Pence and Haley despise one another.

    Well, yeah! Sure! She’s a black foreigner, which to Pence is worse than being a tramp truck stop hooker. Even though really she’s far better than a RWNJ like Pence.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    @Steve in the ATL: Serena’s beaten her [klaxon][blink]19[/blink][/klaxon] times in a row.

    “But, hey, Maria won Wimbledon in 2004 and you can’t take that away from her…!!”

    The American tennis commentators are shameless.

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60.

    Tazj

    @cokane: So true, plenty of middle class and upper class whites voted for Trump didn’t they? However, they don’t have a made up sympathetic excuse as you know, for doing so.

  61. 61.

    Mart

    …the principles Pence had long been known for…

    Convention wisdom says so little while saying so much.

  64. 64.

    Amir Khalid

    @Another Scott:
    Birthright citizenship is a constitutional right in the US. POTUS cannot take it away by executive fiat; only a constitutional amendment can remove that right. Doesn’t Trump know that? Or does he just refuse to believe it?

  65. 65.

    Yarrow

    @Amir Khalid: The Supreme Court can reinterpret the constitution and say it doesn’t mean birthright citizenship and there you go. As for what Trump understands…HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

  66. 66.

    Martin

    I have a small and simple suggestion:

    Invite the Governor of California to the G7 and G20. We have a larger economy than a few of the G7 nations, and our Governor will actually show up for meetings, and what’s more, he/she will likely commit to greater climate action than even Obama was willing to do.

    You can still invite Trump if you want.

  67. 67.

    Amir Khalid

    @HeleninEire:
    Maria Sharapova made her name like 15 years ago by beating Serena in the final at Wimbledon. But Sharapova remains a recognisable name, she has not really been a consistent winner since then. Plus she has a rep for being the diva-est diva in the history of tennis.

  68. 68.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Both of these people are vile sacks of shit.

    In the words of efgoldman, fuck ’em.

  72. 72.

    Amir Khalid

    @PsiFighter37:
    For what it’s worth, Nikki Haley is from Sikh parents of Punjabi heritage. I’m not sure how big ethnicity is for Indian-Americans, but it’s my understanding that old-country political and class divisions can and do carry over.

  73. 73.

    Chetan Murthy

    @HeleninEire:

    Also wasn’t Sherapova the best of the best?

    She’s photogenic. Isn’t that enough? [narrator: no] Even the FTFNYT gets it right:

    Serena Williams defeats Maria Sharapova. Again.
    Serena Williams closed out a quick and comfortable 6-1, 6-1 win over Maria Sharapova after just 59 minutes. Williams hit 16 winners to Sharapova’s six to beat her longtime rival for the 19th consecutive time.

    But this was not the most lopsided win in the stretch: Williams won, 6-0, 6-1, in the 2012 Olympics gold medal match, played at Wimbledon.
    .

    Yeah, that’s some definition of “longtime rival”.

  74. 74.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Yarrow:

    With our first drink, I toasted my seatmate with “Here’s to our completing a successful flight.” He did a “Wait, what?” take but then laughed. After that I have scrupulously not confirmed his fear that “Oh, Lord, I’m sitting next to a chatty geezer.”

  76. 76.

    AliceBlue

    @Amir Khalid: Amir, this has absolutely nothing to do with your comment, but if you like to read, I just finished a book that’s right up your alley. It’s called “The Birth of Loud” by Ian S. Port and “enthrallingly depicts the invention of the electric guitar, spotlighting the rivalry between innovators Leo Fender and Les Paul and shows how the two men dramatically transformed popular culture and brought music into the modern age.” It’s a fun read that’s not too technical.

  77. 77.

    Dan B

    @TenguPhule: Word is that the FEC wasn’t functioning because its GOP chair prevented any action. Maddow had a report – last night I think.

  78. 78.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Looked at the x-rays and said they looked “awesome.” That’s a direct quote. So is “ideal outcome.”

    I’m happily enjoying a cocktail.

    I remember when you were telling us about the injury, and I remember cringing. I’m happy/happy/happy to hear this outcome! Congratulations! I also am drinking a G&T!

  84. 84.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Amir Khalid:

    I’m not sure how big ethnicity is for Indian-Americans, but it’s my understanding that old-country political and class divisions can and do carry over.

    I don’t know, b/c like I GAF; anybody from anywhere in the subcontinent is as good as anybody else to me, and that includes from Pakistan/Bangladesh. But for the kind of folks who care — the Hindu nationalists, who hold a grudge, like the Hindu nationalists, I’m sure they’ll all remember that Indira Gandhi was assassinated by Sikh militants. Like any of this should matter today, but then, these are the same folks who have it in for Indian Muslims, so ……

  85. 85.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):

    The best thing about commercial aviation for me now is in-flight wi-fi. It really makes the tedious hours fly by. [Rim shot.] I’d be doing the same thing at home, except with the housecat sideboard and without the tactical gear (pants).

    Initial descent to LAS. I may disappear soon.

  88. 88.

    satby

    @Chetan Murthy: and Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated by a Hindu nationalist, wasn’t he? Does that give anyone pause as the Hindu nationalists gain more power again?
    I would have thought that would doom that movement forever in India.

  89. 89.

    Brachiator

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Serena Williams defeats Maria Sharapova. Again.
    Serena Williams closed out a quick and comfortable 6-1, 6-1 win over Maria Sharapova after just 59 minutes. Williams hit 16 winners to Sharapova’s six to beat her longtime rival for the 19th consecutive time.

    Not a huge tennis buff, but when I saw a headline earlier about “longtime rivalry,” I had assumed something near parity, but damn, this is more like “Serena uses Sharapova as traditional warm up dummy to begin her US Open competition.”

  90. 90.

    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi)

    Okay, maybe a good dinner somewhere with RWNJ brother as I start to get the lay of the land. Fingers crossed.

  92. 92.

    Gwangung

    @Brachiator: Nit a tennis buff, but even I knew she gets mentioned only because she’s blonde, slender and relatively pretty. Otherwise, she’s just another punching bag for Serena.

  93. 93.

    Chetan Murthy

    @satby:

    and Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated by a Hindu nationalist, wasn’t he? Does that give anyone pause as the Hindu nationalists gain more power again?

    Hindu nationalists [full disclosure: I’m a “gowda”, which is a sub-caste of landowners, hence, descended from Hindus with no interruption] are as stupid about this as any cornpone good ol’ boy.

  94. 94.

    karen marie

    @TenguPhule: I thought that was already the case, because of Republican refusal to fill vacancies since at least some time during the Obama administration.

  95. 95.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Gin & Tonic: I’m drinking a 2015 Caymus. Is it ok to toast your food news with wine rather than liquor? If not, I’ll send thoughts and prayers.

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    @Gwangung:

    Not a tennis buff, but even I knew she gets mentioned only because she’s blonde, slender and relatively pretty.

    This part I knew.

    Otherwise, she’s just another punching bag for Serena.

    I didn’t realize just how much of a punching bag she was. I mean, shit, if we were talking boxing, Serena wouldn’t even hire Sharapova as a sparring partner.

  100. 100.

    Ryan

    Should we read anything into that it seems Sarah Sanders and Michael Bolton are sitting behind them? Did they hire contract assassins from the senior staff a la Battlestar Galactica?

  102. 102.

    Kay

    Civil society requires the toleration of the expression of opposing viewpoints, no matter how personally discomforting you may find them. Therefore, it would be profoundly hypocritical for the editorial staff of the New York Times opinion section not to immediately invite me to come to their offices to call them all morons and trolls.

    The whole thing is great.

    How is that acceptable? How will the minds of the New York Times opinion section staff ever be expanded, how will they ever leave their ideological bubble, if they aren’t exposed to ideas that challenge them, like “all of you are charlatans”?

  104. 104.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @rikyrah: Given that there is an actual racist named Bannon associated with this White House, I am not sure how useful your nickname for Pence is.

  106. 106.

    J R in WV

    @Elizabelle:

    Have recently discovered an old cocktail from the 1890-1920 era, called a French 75. It’s gin shaken with lime juice and simple syrup and ice, strained into a glass of cold champagne. Some recipes call for cognac instead of gin, which sounds good too, but I haven’t tried that yet. Neighbor did those for a party a while ago, they were great. A favorite now.

    Named for a popular French 75 mm field cannon in use back then.

  107. 107.

    J R in WV

    @Amir Khalid:

    Nikki Haley’s original name is Nimrata Randhawa, also too. For some reason she goes with Nikki now, and married a guy named Haley, and so took his name, traditionally, sort of.

  109. 109.

    Chris Johnson

    Well, that’s interesting.

    For GOPers to move against Trump and Pence is to dare to move against the Russian control. Trump is the obvious guy, but Pence is there for a reason: he becomes the Russian mole President should Trump die, or ‘suicide’ like his old buddy Epstein. Pence is the ‘clean’ one, the one who’s been prepared to step into the role and claim ‘everything is fine now’ and get ‘re-elected’ with huge imaginary margins after fucking up the process beyond repair, maintaining control of the US for Putin.

    To openly move against Pence (ask yourself, why NOW? What even has changed with Pence that all of a sudden now it makes sense to replace him?) is to move against the Russians, even though they are actively murdering people (well, if you call rich pedophile kompromat-getters ‘people’). It implies interesting things.

    Either she and anyone aligning with her are idiots looking to get murdered… or they think the Russian control has got a lot weaker, and they’re looking to brush all that under the table and reinvent the Republican party as ‘not traitors’, counting on the willingness of the Beltway to hush everything up and make like they’re not all in it with Trump and the Russians. And probably some of them aren’t, but Pence is dirty as fuck. They must have gamed out a plan, even a stupid plan, for ‘moving on’ and persuading people that the situation doesn’t stink.

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