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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Gun Safety Open Thread: Well Said, Mr. O’Rourke

Gun Safety Open Thread: Well Said, Mr. O’Rourke

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142Comments

  3. 3.

    geg6

    You go, Beto. I’m behind this every step of the way and fuck everyone who isn’t. So sick of this shit.

  7. 7.

    MomSense

    I’m happy Beto is saying it plain. Let’s be honest though. If Obama had dropped the f bomb or if Harris, Castro, or Booker said this is fucked up, the response would not have been as approving.

  8. 8.

    Kay

    Daniel Dale
    @ddale8
    ·19h
    The #1 venue for Trump’s false claims over the last six weeks: his exchanges with reporters, many of them in front of the Marine One helicopter.

    We would literally be better off if they stopped asking him questions. He uses the daily events to spread lies. These exchanges benefit only him and them. No upside for the public at all, and substantial downside.

  10. 10.

    Jerzy Russian

    @Raven: I didn’t watch anything related to this, but I knew that someone would be going apeshit about children hearing naughty words as opposed to children getting shot on the streets.

  15. 15.

    Kay

    The National Rifle Association is spending around $100,000 to abruptly relocate its board meeting to Washington, D.C., according to an e-mail sent by the NRA’s General Counsel and Secretary John Frazer that was obtained by Newsweek.

    On Tuesday evening, Frazer announced to the board of directors that plans to hold its mid-September meeting in Anchorage, Alaska, were being canceled and redirected to the nation’s capital as federal lawmakers consider several gun-control proposals.
    But in a May 22 e-mail to top NRA officials, including the organization’s CEO Wayne LaPierre and its newly installed CFO Craig Spray, Frazer announced that a previous analysis had concluded that moving the planned meeting would run up costs approaching $100,000, due both to cancellation fees with pre-arranged vendors and the higher price of room and board expenses in the D.C.-Metro area

    Stakeholders are concerned about the NRA’s ability to maintain its current spendthrift attitude. At one point, former NRA President Lt. Col. Oliver North wrote a memo to the board of directors claiming that invoices from the group’s outside counsel were “draining NRA cash at mind-boggling speed.”
    During the first quarter of 2019, the NRA was billed nearly $100,000 a day for the services of this attorney, William A. Brewer III.

    100,000 a day. Oh, well. Every dollar the executives steal is a dollar that doesn’t go to Trump’s re-elect. Bleed ’em dry, boys. Get it while you can.

  16. 16.

    Another Scott

    @MomSense: I assume most of the “serious” political press will use this comment by Beto to dismiss him (even more) as a candidate. “Tut, tut. Serious people don’t talk that way in public…”

    It’s an old game. The “serious political press” tried to dismiss Carter after his Playboy interview where he admitted to having “lust in his heart” occasionally or saying a curse word in private. Or Carter saying he would “whip his ass” if Kennedy ran against him. It’s childish attempts at “virtue signaling” – ignoring the substance of what he’s saying because of a word or few used to express it.

    Or Dean’s Scream.

    Don’t be at all surprised if Beto’s visibility in the MSM drops even further. :-( Beto’s people need to be prepared for that if they intend to stick around to and through the voting.

    To be clear – Beto said the obvious, and it’s high past time that sensible people recognize it and not tip-toe around it. Banning guns have obvious policy implications and refusing to talk about them don’t make them go away. Large-scale gun buy-backs have to be part of the solution.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  17. 17.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MomSense: I don’t disagree with you, but maybe this is a time that we should ride white privilege as far as we can. I will be calling my Congress people on Tuesday and telling that, as a veteran and a gun owner, I am sick of this shit, that I agree with Beto about mandatory buy backs, and that military grade weaponry has no place in civil society.

  20. 20.

    MomSense

    @Another Scott:

    Harris has been saying it, too. She’s been saying that as president she would give Congress 100 days and if they didn’t act she would take executive action which would include bans on assault weapons.

  21. 21.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    They love that he’s so chatty. Never mind that he’s using these events to spread lies and propaganda. The informal press events he completely controls are the most efficient lie dissemination mechanism he has. They’re giving him a huge, in-kind re-election donation which is also good their careers. The only losers in this transaction are the public.

  22. 22.

    Dev Null

    Totally off-topic, possibly already posted in comments here, but if not, a dKos diarist flagged new information about the Nyonoska radiation incident:

    “This is what death looks like”.

    Also contains a link to an historical essay on a 1964 “inadvertant criticality” event in Rhode Island.

  23. 23.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    The NRA will just pull a Trump and refuse to pay the cancellation fees. Also, interesting that an attorney would be the one to announce the change in venue.

  28. 28.

    MomSense

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m happy he’s saying it.

    School starts next week and like a lot of parents it’s unnerving. I’m thinking about all the gun owning households in our school district. There are a couple kids who give me the creeps. I hope they don’t have guns at home they could access. I’m not a fan of the methodology they use in the lockdown drills. If a shooter enters a classroom the kids are being taught to stall them so others can get away. Fuck that shit. I want my kid to get the hell out of there – out the window if he has to.

    I’m furious and I’m sick of all of us having to suppress our fear and anger so we can get through our days.

  30. 30.

    Kay

    I think it’s great he said it. The NRA were Trump’s single largest donor and Trump is vulnerable on this. We know he’s vulnerable because he lied and said he would do something about it. Go after him. Now. It’s shifted and gun nuts have become a political problem for them. If we were ever going to go directly after it’s the best opportunity in decades to do so.

  34. 34.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    It’s breath taking isn’t it? The level of irresponsibility by these adults. They went from dumping the entire problem on schools to dumping the entire problem on students. They are the biggest cowards in the world. They would rather “train” a 13 year old to fight their gun battles than give up their precious fetish object.
    A year from now there will be a CNN panel- “could the 6th graders in Mr. Fox’s class have done more to stop this suicidal terrorist? Where did their training go wrong? ”
    Just a complete and utter abdication of any responsibility at all.

  36. 36.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Jerzy Russian: Nixon always went on and on about how we must always set a good example ‘for the children.’

    I always thought the reason he lost most of his base was because the tapes showed how frequently he swore. Not ‘a good example for the children!’

  39. 39.

    Betty Cracker

    Saw a clip of FL US Senator Rick Scott lying on CNN today. He lied when he said gun safety “isn’t a partisan issue,” and he lied about what happened here in FL, saying that Republicans and Democrats in the state came together after the Parkland massacre to pass meaningful reform. What actually happened is that Scott and the Republican statehouse were prepared to do nothing as usual, but the people of Florida, led by the Parkland survivors, forced them to either act or get hounded out of office. When voters became more of a threat to their careers than the NRA, the Republican governor and wingnut statehouse passed gun safety laws. It’s up to us voters to take that scenario national. Nothing will change until we do. But if it can happen here, it can happen everywhere.

  40. 40.

    Kay

    @germy:

    The best part? They plundered their own fucking organization. They took more out to pay themselves than they were taking in. They’re paying that lawyer 100k a day to find their own money and claw whatever remains from the bank accounts and lavish property purchases of their own executives.

  41. 41.

    germy

    In the face of unspeakable violence, Texans have come together before. We will again. https://t.co/qMzAaEGsQj— Senator John Cornyn (@JohnCornyn) September 1, 2019

    So true. My home state of Texas came together a month ago in El Paso after mass murder. They will again after Midland. And then again after the next one and the next one and the next one, because mass murder due to gun violence is apparently the new normal. https://t.co/tiDBRPqnNb— Josh Campbell (@joshscampbell) September 1, 2019

  42. 42.

    MomSense

    @Kay:

    Recruiting and training child soldiers even for support roles is a humanitarian rights violation. Isn’t that what we are doing when we systematically train kids to fight armed terrorists?

  43. 43.

    germy

    @Kay: I wonder what the future holds for them. I honestly don’t know if they’re in their last days, or if they’ll rise again.

  44. 44.

    germy

    Fortunately our Commander In Chief has words of wisdom at a time like this:

    I have not forgotten that when it was announced that I was going to do The Apprentice, and when it then became a big hit, helping NBC’s failed lineup greatly, @DebraMessing came up to me at an Upfront & profusely thanked me, even calling me “Sir.” How times have changed!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 1, 2019

  48. 48.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    The NRA will just pull a Trump and refuse to pay the cancellation fees.

    IMO, debbie, the notion that Donald Trump doesn’t pay when he gets sued is a myth promoted by Donald Trump. He settles lawsuits all the time. He pays. He mostly stiffs small business people who don’t have the means to attach liens to whatever portion of those shitty developments are actual equity (not debt) but even some of those get paid because they attach assets. He REGULARLY pays on lawsuits. A large convention space got the guarantee of payment up front. They already have the money.

  50. 50.

    NeenerNeener

    @germy: There’s his lying tell, “Sir” again. I’ll bet Debra Messing was worth more than Trump when The Apprentice was announced and I doubt very much that she called a peer “Sir”. I just wish she’d go on Twitter and refute this.

  51. 51.

    rikyrah

    @germy:
    Messing and her colleagues are asking the Entertainment Press to NAME NAMES of anyone at the Beverly Hills Dolt45 fundraiser. So, they won’t be able to hide their Dolt45 support.

  53. 53.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @debbie: there’s a big trump fund-raiser in LA soon, and Messing called for people to name names about those attending. Fox was all up in arms about the “new McCarthyism”, which always strikes me as odd, admitting that supporting trump is something people should be ashamed of, and it’s ruthless and unfair to point it out

    good to know the only President we’ve got has got his eye on the massive and unpredictable hurricane and the most recent mass shooting

    Also, as the very mild-mannered Daniel Dale points out, whenever trump says “Sir”, he’s lying.

  54. 54.

    debbie

    @Kay:

    His campaign still has not paid the $160,000 bill for his rally in El Paso a few months ago. They won’t be settling, I’m sure.

  55. 55.

    kindness

    I don’t support citizens owning assault weapons. I do want the government to end up doing a buy back program after illegalizing them. I don’t think that telling people you want to take away their guns wins us anything in the 2020 elections. In fact I think it guarantees Democrats would snatch defeat from the Jaws Of Victory that we should see this election.

    Am I suggesting we lie then? No. Just don’t say the inside parts in an outside voice. Be smart. Tell them we’ll push gun safety laws like a firm limit on clip/magazine size with no grandfather clause. That alone would mortify the gun humpers, but they won’t vote for us anyhow. Running on ‘We Want To Take Your Guns’ is a reverse Trump. It whips up our base and offends many we need to actually win an election. Lot’s or middle folk would support magazine limits and wouldn’t care that the sky is falling folks howl about the sky falling. Telling them we want to take your guns plays right into the jack-booted Gestapo kicking in law abiding citizens doors and taking away their only protection scenerios which we see the MSM loves to fall for. We’d lose those middle folks votes and we’d lose.

    Let’s be clear. We need to sweep as many offices as we can in 2020. That should be the only goal. Wait till you’ve won to split up the winnings. Be smart about how you present yourself.

  56. 56.

    Spanky

    1100 EDT update from NHC:

    Reconnaissance plane and satellite fixes indicate that Dorian, as
    anticipated, has slowed down and is moving toward the west or 270
    degrees at 6 kt. The steering currents are collapsing and Dorian is
    expected to slow down even more, prolonging its catastrophic effects
    in the northwestern Bahamas. The NHC forecast calls for a slow west
    to west-northwest motion during the next 48 hours, with a turn to
    the north and an increase in forward speed as the mid-level trough
    along the eastern United States deepens and becomes the dominant
    steering feature. The current forecast is only a few miles west of
    the previous one and is basically on top of the multi-model
    consensus. Both the deterministic and consensus tracks have shown
    the usual variability to the right or to the left from run to run,
    but the overall trend is for the hurricane to turn northward
    offshore but very close to the Florida peninsula.

    Given the uncertainty in the track forecast and the anticipated
    increase in size of the hurricane, a Hurricane Watch and Storm
    Surge Watch have been issued for a portion of the east Florida
    coast. It is emphasized that although the official track forecast
    does not show landfall, users should not focus on the exact track. A
    small deviation to the left of the track could bring the intense
    core of the hurricane its dangerous winds closer to or onto the
    coast.

  60. 60.

    Another Scott

    Twitter:

    Rep. Don Beyer Verified account @RepDonBeyer

    26 people shot in Texas with 7 killed and the President is talking about the Apprentice.

    […]

    7:24 AM – 1 Sep 2019

    Literally.

    Grr…

    Twitter:

    Rep. Don Beyer Verified account @RepDonBeyer

    Rep. Don Beyer Retweeted POLITICO Florida

    The House passed this in February. It didn’t require superhuman strength to do something about gun violence, all we had to do was vote. These bills have been sitting in the Senate for 6 months.

    Seriously, what else is it going to take?

    Rep. Don Beyer added,

    POLITICO Florida Verified account @politicofl

    In one of their biggest moments since winning the majority in November, House Democrats pushed through legislation on Wednesday mandating federal criminal background checks on all gun sales, including private transactions. https://politi.co/2El7esH
    6:50 PM – 31 Aug 2019

    What it’s going to take is voting them out of office. We all know that.

    Grrr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  61. 61.

    StringOnAStick

    @germy: Again with the “sir” crap; he hasn’t absorbed the fact that this “tell” is known by all people opposed to him.

    I was sure today was Saturday, but the good news is I work on Mondays and Wednesdays so this week it doesn’t matter!

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @MomSense:

    If you can (and you should be able to if it’s public) find out who the school is hiring for “security consulting”. All of these security firms are run by wingnut gun nuts. It’s a fucking slush fund of public money that will be lining their pockets. It’s theatre, schools know it’s theatre, but they ALSO know that if something happens Jake Tapper will be demanding answers on what the school did to prevent it. It’s insane. They are the same wingnut gun nuts who put the students at risk in the first place to “protect” them. It’s a compromise, so they hire gun nuts and then they hire a phalanx of counselors to placate the moderates. It’s a WASH and we will spend hundreds of millions of dollars on it that could have gone to art or music or math tutors.

    The lack of gun regulation financially benefits the same people who caused the problem in the first place. They get both sides of this.

  63. 63.

    ThresherK

    @Kay: “could the 6th graders in Mr. Fox’s class have done more to stop this suicidal terrorist? Where did their training go wrong?”

    This sounds like a forthcoming CNN Presidential Debate question.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    Right, but that’s a government entity. That’s El Paso’s fault. They have all the legal power they need to attach anything they want. They have MORE than a hotel does. If someone owed them 160k in property taxes they would happily seize or attach assets. They do it every day.

  65. 65.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @HalfAssedHomesteader:

    The Senate is calling you Beto.

    If not that then the Governorship. Can you imagine the damage he could reverse to this entire country much less Texas simply by holding that office? Even with it being what some call a “weak office” he’d be able to fix a whole lotta misery that has spilled over to the rest of the country.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    @debbie:

    Trump and Melania want to go to El Paso. There. That place. They can’t go to another place. They want to conduct that obscene photo op where they stiffly held that poor baby as a prop. El Paso has all the power they need to insist the deadbeat Trumps deposit funds to cover the anticipated costs of their visit. They got robbed once. The second robbery they volunteered for.

  67. 67.

    artem1s

    NRA President Lt. Col. Oliver North wrote a memo to the board of directors claiming that invoices from the group’s outside counsel were “draining NRA cash at mind-boggling speed.”
    During the first quarter of 2019, the NRA was billed nearly $100,000 a day for the services of this attorney, William A. Brewer III.

    Well boo fucking hoo. I wonder what Planned Parenthood has to spend on lawyers every day? And security to keep staff and clients safe from gun humpers? Schools? Churches? Concert halls? Theatres? Every public event, street fair, and parade in every city in the US that has to hire security because of gun humpers?

  68. 68.

    germy

    The Dickey Amendment is a provision first inserted as a rider into the 1996 United States federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that “none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment

  70. 70.

    germy

    My wife is in another room right now listening to Public Radio.

    Right now they’re doing an in-depth story and interview with… Marianne Williamson.

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Daniel Dale @ ddale8
    Two notes: 1) Like crying, Profuse Thanking often goes along with Sir. In this story, Debra Messing has taken the place of the big burly coal miner backstage. 2) This is a special Sir Story. Trump almost never explicitly notes the Sir. He usually just sneaks it in.

    somebody made a mash-up of trump’s big strong guy with tears in his eyes stories, I couldn’t bring myself to watch

  72. 72.

    Kay

    I’m on a school committee in a 70% Trump county and listening to the insane and constantly doubling down of denials from local gun nuts that they had anything to do with this – they can’t. They can never, ever admit they were complicit in this because there are too many slaughtered children. A compromise is impossible. They cannot move. The only people who can reach any kind of compromise at this point are gun regulation advocates and neutrals. We can’t go back in time. The casualties are the sunk cost for gun nuts and with every slaughter that cost goes up. They would have to admit they had a part in this and they cannot do that and still consider themselves decent people. That door is closed. They cannot be at the table. They cannot make an offer, because if they do that’s an admission of guilt. If you’re a gun regulation person you can compromise because that’s not a threat to your whole idea of yourself. They no longer have that luxury, due to the body count.

  73. 73.

    Betty Cracker

    @kindness: I think the “gun grabbers” argument is losing effectiveness. People want lawmakers to act. From a recent Fox News poll on support for an assault rifle ban:

    – 86% Democrats
    – 46% Republicans
    – 58% Independents

    The poll also found that 90% support universal background checks — massive support across political affiliations.

    It makes sense to be clear about the goal, i.e., assure people that the aim is not to stop folks from owning hunting rifles, etc. I understand the concern about overreach, but IMO, there’s a danger in understating the position too; you’ve got to give people a reason to vote FOR you.

  74. 74.

    Kay

    So when we’re sitting here saying “how many deaths will it take?” to a gun nut that’s the wrong question. An endless number. The deaths RAISE the stakes for them. Every death is an incentive to deny harder. If they accept any responsibility
    the whole thing comes crashing down on them and it’s a fucking HORROR.
    They have more to lose than assault weapons. They lose their whole self concept as decent people. So- they’re out. Can’t be part of a solution.

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    TX state rep, 6th district

    Matt Schaefer @ RepMattSchaefer
    -I am NOT going to use the evil acts of a handful of people to diminish the God-given rights of my fellow Texans. Period. None of these so-called gun-control solutions will work to stop a person with evil intent. 2/6
    -I say NO to “red flag” pre-crime laws. NO to universal background checks. NO to bans on AR-15s, or high capacity magazines. NO to mandatory gun buybacks. 3/6
    -What can we do? YES to praying for victims. YES to praying for protection. YES to praying that God would transform the hearts of people with evil intent. YES to fathers not leaving their wives and children. YES to discipline in the homes. 4/6
    -YES to supporting our public schools. YES to giving every law-abiding single mom the right to carry a handgun to protect her and her kids without permission from the state, and the same for all other law-abiding Texans of age. 5/6
    -YES to your God-given, constitutionally protected rights. YES to God, and NO to more government intrusions. 6/6

    the psychology of the god-and-guns cult is horrifically fascinating, and one that is not really discussed politically. In no small part because GW Bush, Tim Russert and a few others made FAITH such a shibboleth in politics

  76. 76.

    Elizabelle

    Proud of Beto. Somebody needs to be saying this out loud, because more people than you think are saying it privately.

  77. 77.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: That’s an excellent point. The hysterical insistence that there must be some solution other than restricting gun ownership — including the outrageous and obscene notion that we should train children to rush shooters — is a signal of just how sunk that cost is with gun nuts. We have to roll over those fuckers. There’s no dragging them onto the bandwagon.

  78. 78.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @Villago Delenda Est: Cut that shit out, Villago.

    Mitch needs to go, but via legal, non-violent political means exclusively. Political violence is a bloody, slippery slope to fascism or totalitarianism.

  80. 80.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Chief of Houston PD

    Chief Art Acevedo @ ArtAcevedo
    * Dallas
    * Sutherland Springs
    * Santa Fe
    * El Paso
    * Odessa

    Police officers, church goers, students, teachers, Hispanic shoppers, random members of public, and this is only Texas. When will enough be enough?

    I think the vast majority of police chiefs, at least in big cities, support gun safety measures. I suspect I wouldn’t want to see the numbers for the rank-and-file

  81. 81.

    m.j.

    @Kay:

    I’m with you.
    Much like Republicans in general, these sorry excuses for human-beings can’t be reasoned with. They will call it fascism, but any society that allows elementary school children to be slaughtered and then shrugs it’s collective shoulders is one that calls for a drastic correction.

  84. 84.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I had the sound muted while he was babbling, but accodring to the MSNBC chyron, the idiot just had one of his driveway chats and said shooting “hasn’t really changed anything” wrt legislation. Sometimes he accidentally tells the truth. Per Jonathan Capeheart, who had to watch because it’s his job, there was no expression of sympathy or concern from the oaf wearing a sport coat and a trucker’s cap with USA in big letters.

  86. 86.

    ThresherK

    @MomSense: Because they were bitter. And they will always be that way.

    I’m sick of helping these uselessly ingrateful folks. Everything the left does gives them more benefit than they deserve, if only by residue instead of exact design.

  87. 87.

    trollhattan

    @rikyrah:
    No, you see, they’re “sporting rifles” and not “assault” anything like liberals would have you believe. When has a rifle ever assaulted anybody? Poor innocent rifle [sniff].

  88. 88.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:

    They can never, ever admit they were complicit in this because there are too many slaughtered children. A compromise is impossible. They cannot move. The only people who can reach any kind of compromise at this point are gun regulation advocates and neutrals.

    Really interesting take.

    For efg: Fuck ’em. And roll right over them.

  89. 89.

    Duane

    @Kay: They blame anything but the source of the harm. It’s the damned guns. All the rest is lame excuses.The one thing that gun deaths have in common is the damned guns.

  90. 90.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Andrew Gillum @ AndrewGillum
    We need more “good guys” with votes, not guns. That’s the only way to stop mass gun violence.

    We grieve for Texas.
    We grieve for America.

  91. 91.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @rikyrah:

    Assault rifles are Weapons of DEATH.
    Why should any civilian have one?

    You obviously don’t have packs of 30-50 feral hogs who come into your yard every time your kids go out to play, but I understand that’s a real problem in some red states.

  92. 92.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Kay and @Betty Cracker:

    Excellent points both. There simply is no compromise on the part of the ammosexuals. But as rabidly vocal as they are, we outnumber them.

    Unfortunately, it’s going to take convincing Congress critters that it’s riskier for them to continue standing with the ammosexuals than with us — and given how the Republican party has become a death cult, it means even that rational calculus of keeping their jobs has to break through the sort of self-identity issues Kay put her finger on.

    Not saying it’s undoable, just that it’s going to take a lot of effort.

  94. 94.

    trollhattan

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:
    True, because nobody ever managed to shoot a pig with something besides a military rifle. “Hon, grab me mah javelina gun, we’ve got us an infestation.”

    I had a guy here tell me Alaska fishermen needed .50 cal pistols at all times on accounta bears.

  96. 96.

    MomSense

    @ThresherK:

    Fuckem’

    I don’t care to hear about how anything plays to those voters in scranton, or the poooooor farmers, or the lobstermen, or how any of those economically insecure voters in diners feel about anything.

    I don’t care about their world. I’m sick of being dragged back into it all the time. They hate everyone who isn’t white, any religion other than their own fucked up brand of christianism, science, modernity, meritocracy, and anything they don’t understand without any effort. Also, too fuck their fucking feelings.

  97. 97.

    waratah

    @Ella in New Mexico: He will be relentless as president. I do not understand why other candidates supporters keep wanting him to do anything but run for President. They comment on Facebook and Twitter. They spend more time on his comments than at their own candidate.

  98. 98.

    Elizabelle

    @germy:

    Jay Dickey came to regret his actions. After Aurora, he wrote a powerful op ed repudiating his earlier ideas and asking for CDC studies.
    From July 2012: WaPost: We won’t know the cause of gun violence until we look for it

    No luck so far. His amendment’s action outlived him.

    Here’s a short NPR interview with him, from 2015. Ex-Rep. Dickey Regrets Restrictive Law On Gun Violence Research

    … INSKEEP: It has created a strange situation, hasn’t it? If you want to learn details about mass shootings, you can’t really find good information.

    DICKEY: Well, I think you’re right. And the thing that really brought this to my mind was watching as the little barricades were set up between the interstate to stop head-on collisions. The highway industry spent money in their scientific research to figure out what could be done, assuming that they were going to allow cars to continue to be on our highways. Enormous reduction of head-on collisions has been caused just by that little 2-and-a-half, 3-foot fence. We could do the same in the gun industry.

    INSKEEP: You’re saying there might be some way to not interfere with anybody’s right to own a gun but regulate it in such a way that fewer people are killed by guns?

    DICKEY: That’s correct. I can’t tell you what that might be, but I know this. All this time that we have had, we would’ve found a solution, in my opinion. And I think it’s a shame that we haven’t.

    INSKEEP: What advice, then, would you give your former colleagues in Congress?

    DICKEY: (Laughter) As if they would listen.

    Notice NPR there, pulling its usual shit. Democratic colleagues would listen and approve. It’s the Republican morons who are intransigent. But NPR . can. not. say. that.

    The word “Republican” never occurs in the transcript. Never even in identifying Dickey as a former member of Congress.
    Laugh, laugh. It’s just funny.

    The Atlantic magazine, from February 2018: Why Can’t the U.S. Treat Gun Violence as a Public-Health Problem?
    A 1996 bill has had a chilling effect on the CDC’s ability to research firearms.

    The evil that men do … Although: the situation has changed. Never, ever give up, while you have breath.

  99. 99.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    on the Debra Messing tweet

    Tom Nichols @ RadioFreeTom
    The other day on @MeetThePress, the panelists fell into the line that even Trump voters don’t like the tweets and insults. Let’s not kid ourselves: they love them. They live for stuff like this, because it makes politics into a reality show and distracts them from their lives.

    ob Sampson @ bobsalpha1
    The habit many people have, especially the media, of treating Trump supporters as if they better then they seem has always been ridiculous. They don’t tolerate Trump because he gives them things, Trump is the thing they want and they wouldn’t care if he gave them nothing else.

    People don’t want to admit their parents, old friends, siblings, whatevers, are resentment-fueled racists.

  104. 104.

    Elizabelle

    Death toll is up to 8 in yesterday’s Midland/Odessa shootings. Seven victims, plus the gunman.

    The 17 month old toddler girl who was clipped in the face is in stable condition.

  106. 106.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Bradley Whitford @ BradleyWhitford
    In the name of God, shut your racist, incompetent, incoherent yap. A baby was shot in the face. Jesus.

    Donald J. Trump @ realDonaldTrump
    I have not forgotten that when it was announced that I was going to do The Apprentice, and when it then became a big hit, helping NBC’s failed lineup greatly, @DebraMessing came up to me at an Upfront & profusely thanked me, even calling me “Sir.” How times have changed!

  108. 108.

    Betty Cracker

    @Elizabelle: This lady’s account of coming face-to-face with the gunman really got to me, for some reason. She was sitting at her car in traffic when the possibility of random, violent death rolled up.

  109. 109.

    Just One More Canuck

    @Kay: $100,000 = $12,500 for 8 billable hours. 25 lawyers at $500 per hour. Holy crap

    Almost as much as some jackals

  110. 110.

    dww44

    @Kay: Okay, a few minutes ago I witnessed another of these exchanges. Trump, wearing a MAGA cap, opined that Hurricane Dorian was now threatening Georgia and ALABAMA!! No one corrected him!

  112. 112.

    JPL

    @dww44: Only he knows what the storm will do. It seemed that he was mumbling more than usual to me. These days it’s difficult to say.

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    @Betty Cracker: She saw the last image a few other victims may have seen.

    The NY Times had this account in an earlier story:

    Inside another car in the turning lane, Mr. Bejarano said an older woman was hyperventilating after a bullet had apparently passed through her car’s passenger window and then through her driver’s side window, just missing her.

    “She was just shaking,” he said, adding that she was bleeding, but the injuries appeared to be from the glass breaking, not a bullet. “She really couldn’t talk,” he said.

    And in the NY Times current story, at the end:

    On Saturday night, at the University of Texas Permian Basin in Odessa, Stephanie Stonecliffe watched as her children played with rocks. She said her friend had been shopping at the Walmart in El Paso when the gunman there opened fire.

    “Eventually I knew it was going to happen closer to home, especially with what’s going on in the world,” said Ms. Stonecliffe, who moved to the area recently from College Station, Tex. “This just tells me the world’s getting a little bit more dangerous.”

    What a dipshit. It’s TEXAS, Ms. Stonecliffe. It’s the United States. When this happens elsewhere, it really is unusual.

    She just doesn’t want to admit that. It’s the world. It’s the universe. Nothing this twit can do.

  115. 115.

    Yarrow

    @Betty Cracker: I saw that too and it really got to me. I’ve lectured someone I know who is prone to a bit of gesturing and occasional honking of the horn at idiot drivers. I keep saying, “Don’t call attention to yourself. They may have a gun. Just slow down and let them go.” It’s an awful thing to have to consider but it’s a real fear. They may have a gun. They may shoot you because you gesture at them and it makes them even angrier. Such a horrible thing even to have to think about.

  117. 117.

    Sab

    @Elizabelle: Up until very recently it has been both sides do it on opposing gun control. My D congressman had an A rating from NRA up until a year or so ago when he decided to run for president. Since he always ran pretty much unopposed in the primary we were stuck with him voting with the NRA for fifteen years. What were we to do, vote for the Teaparty Republican opponent.

  118. 118.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    This is worth some fisking.

    I am NOT going to use the evil acts of a handful of people to diminish the God-given rights of my fellow Texans. Period. None of these so-called gun-control solutions will work to stop a person with evil intent.

    This is the obvious stuff. Fuck anybody telling them what to do, including the facts.

    YES to fathers not leaving their wives and children.

    What evangelicals hear is ‘Blacks are the problem.’ It’s an article of their faith that black men are thugs who refuse to take responsibility for their children.

    YES to discipline in the homes.

    What evangelicals hear is that the worst thing the government tells them they can’t do is beat any kind of nonconformity out of their children. Absolute control over their children is one of their biggest issues.

    YES to supporting our public schools.

    “Fuck anything liberals want, we suggested putting more guns in schools, and because we said it it’s correct and our way is the only acceptable way. Also, hate and fear are the only solutions that ever work.”

    YES to your God-given, constitutionally protected rights.

    As always, evangelicals have never forgiven that the federal government forced desegregation, has forced them to stop beating gays to death, has obstructed them oppressing others at every turn. Those are the rights they are losing and the rights they most value: To hurt others. The connection to guns is direct.

    YES to God, and NO to more government intrusions.

    See previous, but also evangelicals are royally pissed that nobody but other evangelicals respects them saying God told them what to do anymore. As recently as the 80s they would get public praise for it.

    Every Republican position stems directly from bigotry and hate.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    People don’t want to admit their parents, old friends, siblings, whatevers, are resentment-fueled racists.

    Even the quoted tweets tiptoe around it.

  119. 119.

    debbie

    @Yarrow:

    Heh. Happened to me a few years ago. Around here, people on side streets like to swing into the middle lane and wait for an opening in traffic. This guy swung out really fast and because I don’t trust other drivers and wasn’t sure he wasn’t going to come into my lane, I slammed on the brake. The guy behind me honked and when I looked in my rearview mirror, I saw he was waving a gun around.

    Oh, well, I still would have been right.//

  120. 120.

    FelonyGovt

    This morning I saw a photo of that 17 month old baby who got shot and wound up with serious facial injuries from shrapnel. How is this even possible. I’m having a very hard time today.

  121. 121.

    Elizabelle

    @debbie:

    I slammed on the brake. The guy behind me honked and when I looked in my rearview mirror, I saw he was waving a gun around.

    I wish you had had an off duty cop in the passenger seat when that happened. Get that lunatic off the road.

    I always have my cell phone at hand in the car, although it would be hard to snap the license plate for something like that. You have to unlock the screen, bring up the camera … and then it’s your word against theirs.

    But this shit has to stop. That guy was threatening you, plain and simple. And felt he could get away with it. And he did.

  123. 123.

    Doug R

    @MomSense:

    I’m not a fan of the methodology they use in the lockdown drills. If a shooter enters a classroom the kids are being taught to stall them so others can get away. Fuck that shit. I want my kid to get the hell out of there – out the window if he has to.

    I’m furious and I’m sick of all of us having to suppress our fear and anger so we can get through our days.

    Hiding and waiting to be “saved” is no way to live. Running away to fight another day is better.

  124. 124.

    StringOnAStick

    @FelonyGovt: That poor child now has lifelong facial disfigurement that will require plenty of dental work, plastic surgery, speech therapy, etc. Lips and tongues are amazingly delicate and complex structures, and she just had hers severely damaged. Having such an obvious scar on your face impacts the rest of your life. Not only do I have to add “only in America”* for the wound she suffered but also for the idea that “I hope she has good health insurance”, also an “only in America”* feature.

    * I’m using this in terms of western democracies. I’m sure little babies getting shot in the face are things that happen throughout the war torn parts of the world. Here, ‘war torn” things happen all the damned time.

  125. 125.

    Ruckus

    I not only don’t care about his language, there must be a couple of kids under six who have never heard this word, fuck, but they will and they will soon. It is a universally understood word. My mom, who would be 102 yrs old if she were still alive, she knew and understood the usage of this word, even if she herself didn’t use it. This concept that the word is worse than what he’s describing is mind blowing.
    It’s fucking OK to kill innocent humans, who are in no way harming the shooter, fucking kill and wound them, but using the word fuck isn’t.
    Would you rather have seen or heard that word 3 or 3,000,000,000 times or seen one innocent person shot? I know where my concerns are, where they should be, at the killing, at the ease of the killing, not at the “outrage” of the language rather than the actual killing of innocent humans.

    I also notice in the clip above when Beto says fuck, everyone cheers and no one seems outraged that he speaks with the force this issue demands.

  127. 127.

    Ruckus

    @StringOnAStick:

    Here, ‘war torn” things happen all the damned time.

    This is an excellent point. A part of this country is at war with the vast majority, because they can’t get their asinine views accepted. They are actively recruiting volunteers to kill for them. It isn’t “war torn,” I wonder is it an actual act of civil war?

  128. 128.

    Raoul

    Here’s the thing: The NRA has screamed for a couple decades “They’re coming for your guns!” no matter how moderate or conciliatory Democrats were.
    So. To hell with ’em.
    They didn’t accept moderation, so neither should we.

  130. 130.

    trollhattan

    @Elizabelle:
    Mark my words (or highlight them, I like green) cars will soon enough have video recording incorporated into the park assist cameras and traffic warning system cameras, if they don’t already. Youtube will be a lot more interesting once they’re common, and we’ve all had experiences in traffic that we would dearly love to have documented.

  131. 131.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Tom Nichols @ RadioFreeTom
    The other day on @MeetThePress, the panelists fell into the line that even Trump voters don’t like the tweets and insults. Let’s not kid ourselves: they love them. They live for stuff like this, because it makes politics into a reality show and distracts them from their lives.

    Except in my anecdotal experience with Trumper’s and devoted R’s, almost all of them don’t use Twitter–it’s “new” and “I don’t understand how you use it”. Jesus, we just realized the other day that half my husband’s family who supported Trump and are Lifer Republicans don’t even own a cellphone or a computer. It’s Fox News all day.

    i really wonder if some of them were subject to the daily Silkwood Shower the rest of us have to take reading his shit if they actually would have a bit of cognitive dissonance. They surely hear some of it on the news, but sticking one’s Luddite head in the sand sure does keep you from fully experiencing the hell you have brought on the country.

  138. 138.

    Doug R

    @kindness:

    I don’t support citizens owning assault weapons. I do want the government to end up doing a buy back program after illegalizing them. I don’t think that telling people you want to take away their guns wins us anything in the 2020 elections. In fact I think it guarantees Democrats would snatch defeat from the Jaws Of Victory that we should see this election.

    Am I suggesting we lie then? No. Just don’t say the inside parts in an outside voice. Be smart. Tell them we’ll push gun safety laws like a firm limit on clip/magazine size with no grandfather clause. That alone would mortify the gun humpers, but they won’t vote for us anyhow. Running on ‘We Want To Take Your Guns’ is a reverse Trump. It whips up our base and offends many we need to actually win an election. Lot’s or middle folk would support magazine limits and wouldn’t care that the sky is falling folks howl about the sky falling. Telling them we want to take your guns plays right into the jack-booted Gestapo kicking in law abiding citizens doors and taking away their only protection scenerios which we see the MSM loves to fall for. We’d lose those middle folks votes and we’d lose.

    Let’s be clear. We need to sweep as many offices as we can in 2020. That should be the only goal. Wait till you’ve won to split up the winnings. Be smart about how you present yourself.

    You know, that WAS the conventional wisdom, but I think the telling the truth time has arrived. It’s still a little risky, but admitting there are some types of weapons that need to be bought back is a net positive.

    Poll: Most Republicans support assault weapons ban, despite Trump saying ‘no appetite’

    Most Republicans would support legislation banning assault-style weapons, a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll found Wednesday — a finding that contradicts President Donald Trump’s claim earlier the same day that there’s “no political appetite” for such restrictions.

    The poll found that nearly 70 percent of all voters would back such a ban. Support for an assault-weapons ban was higher, at 86 percent, among Democrats, who have been pushing for new restrictions on the firearms in the wake of two mass shootings over the weekend.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/07/poll-most-voters-support-assault-weapons-ban-1452586

  140. 140.

    debbie

    @Raoul:

    My head is going to explode.

    “I’m not in favor of everyone going to college for free, or getting health care for free,” he said during the crop tour. “Someone has to pay the bill.”

    Like the bill for your bailout, YOU ASSHOLE?

  141. 141.

    Ruckus

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Those police chiefs have to tell their employees families about them being shot and never coming home again. They have to bury those employees. That makes it personal. And you tell them, only more guns will help and the ones with any reasonable logic will understand that more guns will equal more danger for their staff, not less. They see the victims, they talk on the cameras, they are basically the front line in dealing with the shootings. Even if they are gun people, they see the results first hand, they deal with the worst parts all the time. I’d expect even the most hardened gun nut chief to have second thoughts about more guns on their streets and what it means directly for them.

  142. 142.

    Raoul

    @rikyrah: How dare my children get free college. They might leave the family business (they’re leaving the family business anyway). Which, broader point, Trumpism is facilitating. As farm bankruptcies rise, farms will continue to get bigger, more computerized and mechanized, and more integrated into vertical Big Ag conglomerates where the ‘farmers’ are just indentured servants. Look at the factory chicken business (it’s grossly abusive of the ‘growers’).

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