Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

The lights are all blinking red.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

We are learning that “working class” means “white” for way too many people.

Second rate reporter says what?

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

A fool as well as an oath-breaker.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

The National Guard is not Batman.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

That meeting sounds like a shotgun wedding between a shitshow and a clusterfuck.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

You are here: Home / Gun Issues / Open Thread: Some Minor Pushback on the Gun-Fondlers, Finally

Open Thread: Some Minor Pushback on the Gun-Fondlers, Finally

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But, of course, #MoscowMitch will fight to the last ruble…

Reminder: There’s more of us than of them… if we can learn to leverage our strength:

Reader Interactions

145Comments

  2. 2.

    Baud

    Ugh. NBC news was just doing a story on hardened schools to stop shooters, with a tour and everything.

  3. 3.

    Brachiator

    *whispers* Walmart knows they’re facing massive liability after multiple in-store shootings. This was about money not decency.

    I don’t care. Every pushback against the gun nuts helps. The GOP thinks that they can hide behind Trump on this one, and the weird assertion that gun fondling is not just a constitutional right, but a right ordained by God Almighty. But their lies and misdirection are not working as well anymore.

  7. 7.

    Mary G

    Nutmeg McCain went full Wayne LaPierre on the View today, saying that she was just in Wyoming and if the government tries to take guns away, there will be violence. We already have violence, bitch. Better it happens to people who choose it than a 17-month-old just out shopping with mom and dad.

  8. 8.

    Adam L Silverman

    I’m not sure that statement was correct about short barrel rifle (SBR) ammunition. Most SBRs, or AR pattern pistols, are chambered for either .223 Remington Winchester/NATO 5.56 ammunition, just like the full sized carbines and rifles. Some are chambered for .300 Blackout, which is a modified .223/5.56 round designed to shoot from carbines and shorter barrelled rifles. But there are plenty of full sized AR patterned carbines and rifles that are chambered for .300 Blackout. I think, perhaps, this was meant to state they would not carry handgun calibers, including for pistol caliber carbines. Otherwise, the statement makes no sense whatsoever.

  9. 9.

    brettvk

    Thank the Goddess. I work for this outfit and, thanks to my stupid lege, have actually seen customers open-carrying while picking up the bales of toilet paper we sell. I’d rather have a gun-free workplace but at least the CC people don’t flaunt their neuroses.

    ETA: The “associates” were already prohibited from carrying weapons on the property or, I think, even in their vehicles. No chance of us ever being the good guy.

  11. 11.

    NotMax

    Courtesy of TPM, quoted from Walmart:

    “After selling through our current inventory commitments, we will discontinue sales of short-barrel rifle ammunition such as the .223 caliber and 5.56 caliber that, while commonly used in some hunting rifles, can also be used in large capacity clips on military-style weapons,” CEO Doug McMillon wrote in a statement. “We will sell through and discontinue handgun ammunition and we will discontinue handgun sales in Alaska, marking our complete exit from handguns.”

    “As a company, we experienced two horrific events in one week, and we will never be the same,” he continued. “Our remaining assortment will be even more focused on the needs of hunting and sport shooting enthusiasts.”

  12. 12.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mary G: That 17 month old has an enumerated 2nd Amendment right to be shot in the head. What part of “shall not be infringed” don’t you understand????//

    (This is both sarcasm, as well as what most of the commenters at firearms sites and forums think and actually post in their comments).

  14. 14.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: That makes more sense, but those aren’t short barrel rifle calibers. They’re rifle calibers full stop regardless of barrel length. As I wrote in comment 8, .300 Blackout, which is a modified .223/5.56 chambering, is specifically designed to function better both out of shorter barrels and suppressed.

  15. 15.

    Yarrow

    @Baud: It would be instructive to investigate who is making money from “hardening” schools. Some companies have to be getting the contracts. Who owns them? Just like Cryptkeeper Chertoff made money off those naked body scanners for the TSA, there’ll be plenty of crony capitalism happening with “school hardening.”

  16. 16.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Possible that is a caliber they don’t (no pun intended) stock?

    Walmart here forbidden to sell guns or ammo, one of the stipulations for granting them leave to build here.

  17. 17.

    Adam L Silverman

    @chopper: It was not intended that way. I was just trying to express that the Wal-Mart statement didn’t make a lot of sense as quoted above. Even with the clarification that NotMax made, I understand what they’re doing, but the statement itself isn’t quite an accurate description.

    I’m in a profession where firearms are a necessary tool. I do regular, quarterly training to maintain my skills and abilities in case I have to deploy and therefore have to qualify. So, to a certain extent, I have to be fluent in the language used by those who use firearms professionally, as well as those who do shooting sports, and the ammosexuals.

    And right now I’m in the wait part of hurry up and wait regarding a deployment. I was asked about a month ago if I was willing to go down range as a senior civilian advisor. If the folks who gauged my interest and availability can get all their ducks lined up, I will have to qualify either before I go or once onsite. Not that I’m going to be a shooter, but I have to be able to both defend myself and my teammates, as well as not be a danger to them should the balloon go up.

  19. 19.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: I don’t shop in Wal-Mart, but .223 Remington Winchester is a pretty common rifle round. And not just for AR pattern rifles and pistols. There are a lot of bolt action rifles chambered in it. I don’t hunt, so I don’t really know how much it is used, but I do know it is used for hunting.

  21. 21.

    Martin

    I have a policy of calling 911 any time I see a person with a gun that isn’t uniformed law enforcement. I don’t care if they’re licensed, they get a 911 call. If I’m in a private location, I tell management and escalate to corporate. Everyone should do this. I don’t care if it shuts down 911, it’ll cause laws to change. Don’t ever tolerate it.

  22. 22.

    NotMax

    @NotMax

    Note “our current inventory commitments.” That can be interpreted as including anticipated future inventory needs ordered but not yet shipped.

  24. 24.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    I don’t shop there either but am willing to extend the benefit of the doubt that the designation “short-barrel” is how the items are carried on their books and is not meant to be a professional armaments description.

  26. 26.

    Mary G

    @Adam L Silverman: I am just sick of having these dickheads like the III%, the nepotism hire installed at ABC for Whoopi and Joy to beat up on, for and so many others threaten violence. First of all, good luck beating the government who has more bodies and weapons, second of all you are encouraging these guys to go out and shoot up your fellow citizens at will. Fuck ’em.

  32. 32.

    NotMax

    @japa21

    Which is why is it phrased as a request, not stated as an imposed ban.

    Would be an interesting experiment to set up the equivalent of a hat check area, but for guns, with a discount coupon provided to those who enter with one and check it.

  33. 33.

    Roger Moore

    @Adam L Silverman:
    As I understand it, the .223 (and related rounds) is used for hunting, but the same things that make it so deadly in mass shootings- a bullet that tends to fragment and leave nasty exit wounds- make it a lousy choice if you want to preserve as much meat and hide as possible. That limits its use in hunting mostly to things like varmints, where the state of the carcass isn’t important.

  34. 34.

    Jay

    Watching the brexit showdown is wild. Defectors, wild speeches, emergency sessions. The series finale of the UK is really good! – Mia Mulder

  38. 38.

    Mary G

    Lots of texts flying among Republican members of Congress who are outraged at the President raiding military funds for the wall. They are saying things like “it’s Article One time” and planning a series of actions I MADE THAT UP THEY WILL NOT SAVE US— Brian Schatz (@brianschatz) September 3, 2019

  39. 39.

    HeleninEire

    I’m OK with what Hoarse says. It is always about money with those people. We are not going to change their ideology. But we can pick their pockets.

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Roger Moore: It doesn’t fragment, it tumbles. Specifically the hardball/full metal jacket tumbles. But the hunting rounds tend to be stabilized and hollow point so they open up/expand and don’t tumble. But that’s why the .300 AAC (Blackout) was developed.

  44. 44.

    TenguPhule

    Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper agreed to divert the military construction funding to build 175 miles of President Trump’s border wall under emergency authorities.

    And Congress powers continue to be stolen by Trump.

  45. 45.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Now at the LBJ presidential museum. Remarkable to recall that RFK was assassinated in June of ‘68 and Johnson had a gun control bill on his desk by October.

    It’s especially remarkable when you consider how thoroughly RFK and LBJ loathed each other. In my wildest flights of fancy I can’t imagine Trump’s pushing for, let alone receiving, a gun control bill in the wake of the assassination of any of his political foes. Or friends/allies, for that matter.

  46. 46.

    Jay

    @NotMax:

    There are many States where the rights of ammosexuals to carry, exceed a public property owners right to bar carrying.

    Thus, the “please, pretty please”.

  49. 49.

    Mary G

    @Baud: Yes, from Hawaii, got a great tweet game.

    This tweet commenting on a video of a YUUUGE line waiting to see Wilmer in Brooklyn. Skews very heavily white male.

    Brooklyn is 50% black. Wouldn't know it from this video :) t.co/Dw9VMOWApF— T. Fisher King (@T_FisherKing) September 4, 2019

  50. 50.

    The Moar You Know

    I don’t shop in Wal-Mart, but .223 Winchester is a pretty common rifle round. And not just for AR pattern rifles and pistols. There are a lot of bolt action rifles chambered in it. I don’t hunt, so I don’t really know how much it is used, but I do know it is used for hunting.

    @Adam L Silverman: Hunters look at it as a “varmint” round: in real life, that means shooting prairie dogs into a fine pink mist, and shooting coyotes. Which by my lights is a crime against nature. Either one. You pick.

    If you say “hunting round” to me, I think 30.06, with maybe .308 as a very distant second. The few desert bighorn hunters here frequently use .338 Lapua for the range.

    Walmart sells a lot of .223/5.56. I buy it by the box, Federal, think it’s 400 rounds per. That’s a lot of ammo coming off their shelves. What will be left? They’ll have the shotgun rounds and the big rifle rounds and that’s it.

    They don’t sell .300 Blackout. Or the .416 Griz or any of the specialty rounds. Very plain Jane, top selling calibers only. Walmarts only have two locking glass display cabs for ammo, not much space, so there’s no room for anything esoteric.

  53. 53.

    TenguPhule

    @Mary G:

    Brian Schatz
    ‏
    Verified account

    @brianschatz
    3h3 hours ago
    More
    The President is officially raiding Military Construction money for the Wall. It’s happening right now. Every service member, family member, and veteran should look at the list of projects he is de-funding and know that Trump thinks a wall is more important.

    32 replies 535 retweets 1,265 likes
    Reply 32 Retweet 535 Like 1.3K

  55. 55.

    Jay

    A tale of two leaders:It took Boris Johnson about 42 days to lose the confidence of parliament in his ability as prime minister.It took New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern just 27 days–nearly half that–to rally her country + ban assault weapons after a mass shooting.— Charlotte Clymer?️‍? (@cmclymer) September 3, 2019

  56. 56.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And I agree completely that obliterating prairie dogs is not cool.

    You only say that now because you’ve never accidentally stepped into one of their burrows.

  57. 57.

    TenguPhule

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    It’s an inside job by Moscow Mitch.

    I am reminded of that scene where the mob hires the Joker to stop Batman and then realize that he’s just set all their money on fire because his half was on top.

  61. 61.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @TenguPhule:

    The President is officially raiding Military Construction money for the Wall.

    Why doesn’t he just take advantage of the everyday low low prices at Wall-Mart?

  62. 62.

    TenguPhule


    Afghanistan: current US withdrawal plan risks ‘total civil war’, top envoys say

    Sounds about right.

    The majority of America’s ambassadors to Afghanistan since the removal of the Taliban government have condemned the US approach to negotiating a troop withdrawal, warning it risked a return to “total civil war”.

    Writing the day after a draft agreement was announced, the nine men, including a former deputy secretary of state, said they supported peace talks in Afghanistan.

    But they warned the current approach risks spawning more violence and insecurity, because negotiators have cut the Afghan government out of discussions and have planned the departure of US troops before sealing a full peace agreement.

    WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?!

  63. 63.

    TenguPhule

    Man threatens Popeyes employees with gun after chicken sandwich sold out

    Popeyes told the Washington Post it was “working tirelessly to bring the new sandwich back to guests as soon as possible”. Fans were told they could sign up for the restaurant’s app, through which they would be told when the sandwich was available again.

    This news was not universally welcomed. In Tennessee, according to NBC, a man sued the restaurant chain for $5,000, alleging false advertising.

    In Houston, things got more serious. Restaurant employees told a local TV station that three men, two women and a baby at the drive-through and were told the chicken sandwiches were sold out. One of the men produced a gun, the employees said, and the group left the baby in a vehicle before trying to get inside the building. They were locked out.

  64. 64.

    NotMax

    Adam, a heads-up on a fascinating four-part series on Prime, Convoy, about WW2 U-boat operations in the North Atlantic and corresponding counter-measures by the Allies.

  65. 65.

    TenguPhule

    And I am still stunned that Trump congratulated Poland for being invaded by Germany to kick off WW II.

    And that it was not considered the most fucking insane thing today.

  66. 66.

    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman)

    @The Moar You Know:

    Walmart sells a lot of .223/5.56. I buy it by the box, Federal, think it’s 400 rounds per. That’s a lot of ammo coming off their shelves. What will be left? They’ll have the shotgun rounds and the big rifle rounds and that’s it.

    They don’t sell .300 Blackout. Or the .416 Griz or any of the specialty rounds. Very plain Jane, top selling calibers only. Walmarts only have two locking glass display cabs for ammo, not much space, so there’s no room for anything esoteric.

    The article said that Walmart estimated they had 20% of the US ammunition market*, and that after this goes into effect the share will drop to the lower part of 6-9%.
    Perhaps they might start stocking a few of the more esoteric calibers in certain markets now that they’ll have some empty shelf space to fill.

    *and about 2% of the US firearms market.

  70. 70.

    Roger Moore

    @Adam L Silverman:
    BTW, the 5.56 NATO was based on the .223 Remington, not the .223 Winchester. There is apparently a .223 Winchester, but it’s an exotic, ultra-high velocity round, not something that’s at all in common use.

  75. 75.

    Calouste

    @Jay: Actually, it was only the third day Parliament was in session with Johnson as PM. The rest of the time it was on recess.

    Johnson is hopefully going to end up having the shortest term in office of any PM. And the guy who will be above him on the list died in office.

  81. 81.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Martin:
    If I ever saw some dude marching down the street with an AR-15, I’d call the police. I don’t care. Concealed carry is bad enough; open-carry is literally just for intimidation. How am I supposed to tell a “law-abiding citizen” from a lunatic or a criminal? Why should I have to take that risk? It’s bullshit

  82. 82.

    schrodingers_cat

    Twitter tells me that Hon. General Theranos spends more time criticizing President Obama than the Orange One in his book. I would like to propose an amendment to Rick Wilson’s Everything T touches dies.
    Everything T touches is already dead.

  87. 87.

    Jay

    An Alabama 14-year-old shot and killed all five of his family members.A 14-year-old. This doesn’t happen in any other high income country. We’re not more evil. It’s not a failure to teach evolution. It’s not movies or video games.It’s the guns. t.co/lGtuigWDR6— Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) September 3, 2019

  89. 89.

    burnspbesq

    The best part of the N.C. decision is that it’s based on the N.C. Constitution. Not only can the Federal courts not overturn it on Federal constitutional grounds, but IIRC the Federal courts don’t even have subject-matter jurisdiction.

  93. 93.

    Jay

    @TenguPhule:

    It was going to be fubar anyway. The Beach Talibs the “agreement” is being negotiated with, have no control over the Mountain Talibs who do the actual fighting, and while Afghanistan, Iran, India and Nato allies were sidelined, Russia was not.

  94. 94.

    TenguPhule

    @Amir Khalid:

    They’re only fried-chicken sandwiches, for goodness’ sake.

    I’m sorry, we’re a nation that has feuds over cheese steak sandwiches and regional styles of pizza.

  95. 95.

    Jay

    It can hard to believe one person can make a difference in 2019, but Capt. Jack Danilecki single-handedly turned the Straight Pride Parade from an embarrassment into an actual riot.Just by using mace like a toy, punching women, and more.That must be why he gets paid $350k/yr! t.co/wRqX7S9Bbq— Johnny McNulty (@JohnnyMcNulty) September 3, 2019

  97. 97.

    The Moar You Know

    I don’t hunt

    @Adam L Silverman: I don’t either, but both my grandparents did, and one of them was some sort of competitive shooter. Also a lawman (ATF and other orgs). Both of them taught me everything I know about the sport (shooting, not hunting).

    Neither of them would have ever signed on to giving civilians battle rifles. But they were fine with handguns, and if you want to tackle the problem of gun violence for real, the battle rifle is a minuscule part of the problem. It is one to be dealt with (and the one that should be dealt with first as it will be the easiest) but not the one that poses the greatest threat to us all. We’ve gotta go after handguns eventually.

  99. 99.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @TenguPhule:

    And I am still stunned that Trump congratulated Poland for being invaded by Germany to kick off WW II.

    Congratulations to Virginia Roberts Giuffre for being raped as a minor by Jeffrey Epstein.

  105. 105.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Dev Null:

    The tusca definitely loosa.

    I’m sure the kid was ….. disturbed. But even well-balanced kids do stupid, stupid, stupid things with guns. I remember at age 16 going out with a few friends to a field with a kite and a shotgun to play. Took quite a few tries before the shot hit a strut. I remember at age 12 or so going out other friends to hunt rattlesnakes, this time with a pellet gun.

    Lotta stupid things, boys get up to with guns.

  107. 107.

    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]

    @TenguPhule: If you knew how chicken nuggets are made, going artificial meat is a BIG step up. (Thinking about big chain nuggets like McDonald’s)

  113. 113.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]:

    If you knew how chicken nuggets are made, going artificial meat is a BIG step up.

    Read an article about “impossible burgers” that made the same point about hamburgers. Reflecting on e coli and the chain of events whereby it ends up in hamburger, I have to agree. Then again, I’m a medical “no-red-meat” guy, so not like I really have a dog in this fight. When impossible burgers are “consensus good enough”, I’ll try ’em.

  117. 117.

    chooper

    @Adam L Silverman:

    are you looking to deploy with james fucking bond? cause in my personal
    experience (ymmv) ‘deployment’ doesn’t involve intimate knowledge of every type of firearm. when i read your post honestly the first thing that crossed my mid was “shit this guy’s an ammosexual”.

  118. 118.

    Mary G

    @Adam L Silverman: I hope you get your deployment, because we need your talents, but aren’t you afraid that some administration hack will veto you for telling the truth about Trump on here?

  120. 120.

    Honus

    @Adam L Silverman: it’s illegal to hunt deer in most states I know of with that round. You can use it for varmints (groundhogs) and there are bolt action rifles chambered for it but not a whole lot. I’m guessing 99.9999% of 5.56 ammunition goes into AR clones.

  121. 121.

    frosty

    @burnspbesq: Sounds like NC took a leaf from PA, which decided the gerrymandering violated the state constitution and had nothing to do with anything Federal. Good move on NC’s part.

  122. 122.

    frosty

    @burnspbesq: PA did the same thing last year. Feds can’t touch the decision.

    (Apologies if this ends up being a duplicate. FYWP sent my previous attempt into the ether.)

  123. 123.

    Honus

    @Mary G: yeah really. “There will be violence” Yeah, some gun nuts may decide to shoot up a school or nightclub or congressional baseball game or street fair or a concert in vegas.

    Assuming there is violence from gun confiscation it will be between professionals and gun nuts, which will be a definite improvement over the present situation.

  124. 124.

    NotMax

    @TenguPhule

    cheese steak sandwiches

    By Willy Penn’s hat, that’s enough to get you and your progeny banned from Philadelphia. Cheesesteak. All one word, no appendage, whether sandwich or jawn*. Grammatically treated the same as is cheeseburger.

    ;)

    *Philly-speak for “da kine.”

  125. 125.

    Redshift

    @HeleninEire:

    I’m OK with what Hoarse says. It is always about money with those people. We are not going to change their ideology. But we can pick their pockets.

    Absolutely. On the business side, economic pressure will produce a lot more consistent results than pressure on their reputation. That’s why the gun industry fears liability more than anything else.

  127. 127.

    Chip Daniels

    I see now Kroger’s has also asked that people not carry in their stores.

    Part of our pushback is to do with guns what was done with smoking- making them socially unacceptable and stigmatized. As the number of gun owners dwindle, their power will weaken.

  130. 130.

    Jay

    @chooper:

    Pretty sure Adam was referring to “every type of weapon” in the US Military/PMC security kit, which is no where near as standardized these days as it used to be.

  131. 131.

    wuzzat

    @HeleninEire: Personally, I’m thrilled that it’s becoming unprofitable to Walmart to let people open carry in their stores and to sell the types of rounds favored by mass murderers. I don’t expect or need corporations to change their ways out of the goodness of their hearts as long the changes are made.

  132. 132.

    NotMax

    @Gin & Tonic

    But the SLT (scrapple, lettuce and tomato) has never found wider acceptance.

    :)

    (I’m guessing you’re thinking of the roast pork and broccoli rabe hoagie.)

  136. 136.

    Ruckus

    Got my official NYTM 1619 magazine.
    It is well done and cheaper than the postage to get it here. Full glossy magazine format. Better than trying to print it off the link that was posted.

  140. 140.

    Duane

    @Chetan Murthy: It’s always the damned guns. Circumstances don’t matter. They all have one thing in common. Guns. Repeal the second amendment. This violence has gotten so out of control it’s the only way it will ever stop.

  142. 142.

    laura

    Looks like I’m in comment jail, but I just attempted to post a link to the sf Chronicle which just reported that the San Francisco Board of Supervisors passed a resolution declaring the NRA to be designated as a domestic terrorist organization.

  143. 143.

    Adam L Silverman

    @chooper: I’m a civilian member of the Profession of Arms. At the tactical level I’m what’s referred to as a leaf eater. But even so, I have to be proficient. And since I don’t do anything without learning everything I can about it, I have read a lot about the various types or weapons that I’m trained to use, but expect never to have to.

  144. 144.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mary G: This is a contract position, so no. I’m not going for a political appointment. I shut that option off in early 2017 when I was approached about one.

Comments are closed.