I didn't watch the Climate Change Town Hall. I'm already pretty sure I'm against Climate Change.
— Jerry (@js_edit) September 5, 2019
it should be noted, as we discuss the various candidate climate plans, that the Trump administration plan is "steer toward the cliff and slam your foot on the gas."
— Seth Dee Michaels ?????? (@sethdmichaels) September 4, 2019
The good news, as far as I’m concerned: None of the candidates seem to have produced any ‘major gaffes’ for the GOP & their media enablers to weaponize — not that they won’t be out there trying, of course. CNN has its own long summary of the whole event here.
Per the AP:
Top Democratic presidential contenders talked tough Wednesday on cutting climate-damaging emissions from oil, gas and coal, turning their focus to global warming in a marathon evening of town halls that gave the candidates a chance to distinguish themselves on a topic of growing importance to their party’s liberal base.
The lengthy climate conversations promised to hand Republicans ammunition for next year’s general election fight by emphasizing one common element in the Democrats’ climate change plans: their overwhelming — and overwhelmingly costly — scope. But the 10 Democrats who participated in the seven-hour series of climate change forums on CNN didn’t shy away from making sweeping promises to reshape the American economy in service of what their party’s grassroots supporters see as the paramount goal of averting global warming’s most devastating effects…
Democrats spent the run-up to the town halls burnishing their environmental credentials, with five candidates releasing in-depth proposals to slash carbon emissions…
David Roberts, professional Climate Nag, livetweeted the whole thing:
Why are @CNN moderators so obsessed with personal sacrifice? Why are they obsessed with the notion that we'll "have to" drive electric cars? WTF is going on over there.
— David Roberts (@drvox) September 4, 2019
And here we go again: "won't you raise taxes on people?" Honestly if CNN does this all night I'm going to have a heart attack.
— David Roberts (@drvox) September 4, 2019
It's over! Gut reactions:
Best of night: tie, Warren & Sanders
Most exceeded (my) expectations: Booker, honorable mention Yang
Only performance I would rate a C or worse: Harris
And yet my favorite answer of the night: Harris on the filibuster
— David Roberts (@drvox) September 5, 2019
Final note before I do Real Work: @CNN, despite my griping about this or that question, deserves enormous credit for the time they gave this & for the amazingly informed, on-point questions from the audience. The whole thing was 1000X better & more substantive than I expected.
— David Roberts (@drvox) September 5, 2019
Actually, one other thing that just occurred to me: I don't think I heard a single direct attack by one candidate on another over the course of that entire seven hours, even though moderators tried to bait them a few times. It was 100% positive and forward-looking.
— David Roberts (@drvox) September 5, 2019
Lots could be critiqued tonight
But it still feels remarkable to see 7 hours of largely substantive talk on CNN where science is taken as a given and candidates face good questions about solutions
A year ago I wouldn't have believed it; makes me wonder where we'll be in a year
— Justin Worland (@JustinWorland) September 5, 2019
Next up, because of course there will be more…
Human Rights Campaign announces an October 10 town hall on LGBT issues. So far Biden, Buttigieg, Castro, Harris, Klobuchar and Warren have confirmed invite. Partnering with CNN. pic.twitter.com/IUsiTE7kYZ
— Jennifer Epstein (@jeneps) September 5, 2019
Good Morning, Everyone ? ??
good morning ???
An event which has “down the memory hole” written all over it, in soy-based biodegradable ink.
Hey, CNN, driving an electric car is NOT a sacrifice. Electric cars are delightful.
Sister Golden Bear
Good Morning/Evening jackals,
I’ve whined about gray “monsoon gloom” here in Thailand, but this morning was sunny, so I had a change of pace and whined about the blistering heat instead. It’s check-up day at the clinic, so at least I was inside with AC this afternoon.
The evenings are pleasant though, and I thought that tonight I might go to the night market (which I didn’t have the stamina to do last time). However, the late afternoon storms hit just after I got back to the hotel room, and it’s pouring right now. So we’ll see.
@NeenerNeener: our Kia is half electric. If the girl could stop backing into palm trees it would be great!
Sister Golden Bear
@NeenerNeener: Obviously the CNN commentators have never driven a Telsa Roadster…. nor even the Model 3. Can’t comment personally on the Nissan Leaf or Chevy Bolt EV, but people I know who own them seem to like them.
As far the LGBTQ townhall, while the HRC is far from my favorite activist organization, kudos to them and CNN for putting a spotlight on our issues, especially as the Trump administration has been busy taking away our rights. Hopefully, it’ll help clear up some of the public’s misconceptions — e.g. IIRC, about half of Americans think LGBTQ people are covered by federal employment protections. We’re not and it’s legal to fire us in 36 states for being who we are.
I’m so old, I remember when making sacrifices is just what people did.
ETA: for their children.
One thing we need is better headlines—which means framing the issue correctly.
It’s not “as President, I plan to spend 100 billion dollars fighting climate change immediately”. It’s “as President, I plan to let all of you earn 100 billion dollars fighting climate change immediately.”
If the government spends $X on project A, someone earns $X from project A. If they spend it on project B, someone earns $X from project B. Republicans always spend $X on project A by giving $X to rich people and already-well-off defense contractors. We plan to spend $X on project B and not give it to rich people or defense contractors.
@OzarkHillbilly: Oh boy, I’m retired so I can ask you even more questions! My first project is replacing the wood on our garden cart! How would you seal the wood?
Maybe CNN thinks all car drivers are Jeremy Clarkson.*
*Remember Jeremy Clarkson?
@RAVEN: I suspect the wood is already treated (a little surprised their website does not mention it) but I’d probably just go with a clear water sealant like Thompson’s.
MilkChocolateMAK (@NovusDivus) Tweeted:
My favorite answer thus far from Kamala at the CNN Clinate Town Hall
Erin Burnett: So you would sue them? Sue Exxon-Mobil?
Kamala Harris: Yes. I’ve sued Exxon-Mobil https://t.co/EB01EuBUhh https://twitter.com/NovusDivus/status/1169380033846218759?s=17
At least Democrats take climate change science seriously unlike the current regime. I’m looking forward to a President and Congress which will take steps to save our environment versus to destroy it for the benefit of the rich.
@OzarkHillbilly: Oh, I’m sorry. I should have said that I posted the picture to give you n idea of what kind of cart! I’m replacing the old wood with new plywood. I had half a sheet from Lil Bit’s Bailey Chair.
@Amir Khalid: Yep, I’ve seen Top Gear!
My plug-in Niro hybrid isn’t a sports car by any means, not even in “Sport” mode, but I can go about a month (or longer in the summer) between fill-ups, so I’m happy.
Which reminds me, the last time I had the car serviced at the dealership they said they heard the Niro was being discontinued because they needed to make more of the big, gas-guzzling Tellurides. I haz a sad.
Some octogenarians sit in the park and play chess. Others…
This is a ready made movie?
@NotMax: reminds me of young Vito Corleone!
Vaguely rings a faint bell. Do remember the name Rémy Julienne, though.
So is today’s “progressive” outrage going to be “IT DOESN’T COUNT BECAUSE IT’S NOT THE DNC!” or “WHY DID THEY WASTE THEIR TIME ON THIS WHEN GUN CONTROL IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE?”
@Raven: 2 or 3 coats of sealant w/ extra attention paid to the edges then.
@Amir Khalid: I remember Jeremy Clarkson once punched Piers Morgan in the face, which makes up for some of his character flaws. (I’m more a fan of James May, myself.)
Man, I’ve only been up an hour and I already want to go back to bed.
Good morning everyone! Blech to dark mornings.
@Chyron HR: “they only proposed ineffective half-measures, since none promised the immediate elimination of capitalism.”
Bathroom whipped back into shape?
Did you watch Kamala? Do you know why Dave Roberts rated her so poorly?
I didn’t watch the thing, but frankly our nominee is going to have to get used to answering the tax question, because it’s not like the GOP is going to ignore it as a talking point.
@satby: Dark mornings are cool mornings.
Morgan is the very definition of a Backpfeifengesicht, but Clarkson should rein in his itch to punch people in the face: it’s what got him sacked from Top Gear.
@NotMax: not totally because I haven’t ripped up the carpet. No idea where my crowbar went in the move three years ago (? I can’t believe it already been 3 years!). But I cleaned the carpet and killed the fleas, with a residual spray that continues to work for seven months. New prybar on my list for the next trip to Lowes. Underneath is just plywood, so I’m considering doing the whole floor over in one fell swoop this fall. Maybe vinyl planking instead.
These are really good candidates and the debates have been serious and substantive, despite the moderators insistence on focusing on plastic straws. Many of the D candidates are quite good at jumping off the (bad) moderator question and making the answer more substantive than the question deserves.
There is nothing even remotely like the depth of these discussions on ANY issue – climate change, immigration, guns, income inequality, health care, education- happening on the Right.
The elite Right are talking about the Oberlin student council and how people are mean to them on Twitter, and the Trump Right are talking about building a vanity wall and how people are mean to them on CNN. It’s petty and small.
And they liked it!!!
@OzarkHillbilly: 50° here right now. Beautiful to me, with a high of about 74-5° today. My perfect weather. But I normally get up at 5 am and it stays dark until after 6:30. So I get sleepy.
I threw in the towel on the back raised bed and talked to a nice lawn service guy about clearing it out. He’s not allergic to poison ivy, so I’m having him handle it. It’s worth the expense, because I’m just not getting to it and the season is almost over.I want those trees and weeds out before they have more time to establish better.
Oh, interesting. It was happening there too? I noticed a strange upwelling of posters right here, super concerned about how they would have to have electric cars and apparently destroy their perfectly functional gas or diesel cars.
Tempted to be snarky and say ‘where’d that come from? Russia’ though I doubt that’s the whole story. Some foks kicking up a fuss demonstrably can’t be posting from Leningrad. In a larger sense, though…
Dark mornings finally give me a chance to see stars in the sky, so I’m fine with them. I could use a few less school buses at 6 am, though.
@satby: Make sure he doesn’t come in with a weedwhacker!
@Sister Golden Bear: Any electric car, even the lowest end, is a blast from 0 to 30. It’s everything fun about driving a golf cart but much much faster.
The moderators used a silly timeline as the premise of a lot of their questions. For example- Warren got a question about refinery workers that was phrased to sound as if the refinery goes dark the minute she takes office and they all get fired, including “cafeteria workers” at the refinery. They did this despite the candidates repeatedly saying they would set goals tied to years- 2025, 2035, etc. Some of the candidates are quite good at answering a better question than the question that is asked- they include the false premise and then reframe the question – Warren is good at this and so is Sanders. Biden is less good at it (surprisingly, given his length of experience) and Harris is not good at it- I think it’s the reason Harris did poorly.
@Sab: we talked about saving the good stuff in the bed where possible. And I showed him all the perimeter plantings, but I will cover the small ones with mini-greenhouses before they mow.
And this clip is just an introduction to my farmer’s market, but I was interviewed for it in Tuesday, so when it’s aired I’ll share that:
@satby: Once I moved out here from STL, getting up at 3:30-4 AM became a requirement (early starts, long commutes), so I got used to it being dark when I get up. It’s a habit now. I like getting up that early and going out on my front porch with my coffee to listen to the night critters. Even in winter when the only night critters are maybe a barred owl or some distant coyotes, I’ll go out for at least 1 cup.
Sister Golden Bear
Guess I’m not going to the night market after all.
The last hour has been a rather biblical downpour with an impressive lightning storm for emphasis.
Can I haz ark now?
On the plus side, it’s so cool now that I’ve left the window open and I’m enjoying the sound of the rain.
@Kay: Did any of them ask the questioning moderator if they were an idiot?
@OzarkHillbilly: I enjoy getting up early too, but after about age 60 I noticed a touch of SAD as the days get shorter. It never bothered me before. Too soon to pull out the full spectrum lights, but seems like I’m really needing them more each winter.
@Chris T.: how much do I like this kind of comment? (spreads arms wide) THIIIIIS MUCH!
“Anything we need to ‘spend’ on mitigating climate change = a great job for you (or your kid), for the foreseeable future and then some”
FYI, Terri Gross will be interviewing David Fahrenthold on Fresh Air today.
Ok, it’s now light. I’ve had multiple cups of coffee, walked the beasts, fed the porch lurker kitty (soon to be captured, neutered, and rehomed), and time for me to get ready to head out to the aforementioned market.
Hope everyone has a good day (or night, depending on geography).
No stories on my feed this morning about this town hall.
Obviously I’m a Warren fan but she does that “good teacher” thing where she takes what is kind of a bad question and makes it a better question. Remember that? Where you’d be like “oh, that’s smart- that’s what I should have asked”. You get a much more complete answer than the question you asked merits.
The moderators treat every exchange like a cross examination. That’s not what cross examination is for. They have to allow the candidates to answer and expand and THEN they can cross, if they’re in love with that method, which they are.
They have to decide. They can be bad lawyers or they can be good journalists. I don’t know why they consistently choose “bad lawyer”.
If there were a judge at these things he or she would insist on going back and allowing the candidate to expand. Judges need the whole answer first. It’s how you know you’re doing a bad job- they don’t have the information they need because you were so eager to rip the answer the shreds you didn’t allow the information in.
I’m surprised at the lack of coverage, either locally or via NPR.
Speaking as someone who’s moving into the Medicare years, this guy is my new hero.
@NeenerNeener: I love my little Niro hybrid too. And I heard the same thing about them discontinuing it. Short-sighted as hell.
It’s not to late to start a life of crime.
My teachers were less good than yours.
Also, Warren basically did. She said 70% of the issue centers around 3 industries and 30% of the issue is personal choices people make, and the 3 industries want us to focus on consumer choices, which I think is true. The Al Gore flies on airplanes argument, which Mayor Pete also got.
The moderators act as if they MUST make the GOP argument, but that’s not true! They have more choices than that! They could ask a question a Republican operative would ask, but they could also ask a whole other range of questions. They’re really not limited to plastic straws and hamburgers.
This is ungenerous to the youngs (who I usually defend) but I worry a little about the importance of this issue to our base. The base that votes. It’s definitely important but I haven’t seen any evidence that it moves our base. I’ve seen the polling that says young people care more about it than older people but young people have to grapple with the fact that they have to TURN OUT better if they want to punch their weight on these things. You know, Bernie even admits this- he says he has work to do with older voters. Now maybe he says that because they’re citizens and he needs to represent, but he also says it because THEY VOTE.
It’s fine to have an event centered around it regardless of political potency- it’s real, it has to be addressed, it won’t become potent if it isn’t discussed- but young people have to meet me halfway. They have to do better than 15-20% turnout if they want power.
@Kay: Another excellent point for Dems to remember when dealing with the both-sides media – thanks, Kay. “You know, you don’t have to limit yourself to the GOP’s frames and questions, Mr. Moderator”
Most young people don’t care about any political issue. It has always been thus.
Same here. I wonder if it is part of aging or just part of my/our aging.
And it’s not that the issue isn’t important to our base. It’s that the distinctions between the candidates is not important to our base. At the end of the day, only Congress can enact real climate change policies.
But if we give up our horse carriages, what will happen to the thousands of people gainfully employed in cleaning horse manure from our city streets? And what of the buggy-whip industry?
They complain that it’s so contentious yet they treat it like a formal adversarial proceeding. There’s more ways to do this than that! They’re really not required to be fake lawyers who rely exclusively on a cross examination approach, which isn’t even what happens in a court anyway. They could be real journalists. They have MUCH more room to improvise. WIDE ranging questions. Allow a complete answer. Jump off and expand the question rather than narrowing to yes or no. They’re not discrediting the witness. They’re asking the candidate to provide initial information. Allow it in!
@CliosFanboy: I’ve been car shopping and it’s depressing. Even the small cars look like they spent a winter eating cheeseburgers: they’re big, bloated and weird-looking. The car lots are full of black, white and silver cars. Add any hybrid or electric technology and you’ve added $10,000 to the price. I don’t get it. Everything is wrong with that picture.
Related: when the roads in my town were paved just over 100 years ago, they were huge. Now, with a car parked on either side, these newer, bigger cars can’t pass one another normally. Drivers have to find a wide spot and let the other pass. This is a recent development. These cars are too big.
We were all talking about peak oil ten-fifteen years ago. How did cars get bigger after that?
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Robert Redford just played a guy like that, but his thing was robbing banks, oh so politely. He tried to sell his autobiography (unsuccessfully) but he was written up in a New Yorker article called “The Old Man and The Gun” and then Redford picked it up and made a movie out of it by the same name.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Did anyone else hear that Boris Johnson’s brother just resigned Parliament, giving as his reason that “family loyalty” and “loyalty to country” are in conflict?
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Uh hu. As the wags are already putting it, this is the first recorded case of a politician giving up politics in order to spend less time with his family.
If it’s 60% fossil fuels, then it’s 40% “other” and that’s a lot higher than it was 20 years ago. Choosing to talk about the 60% jobs rather than the 40% jobs is a choice. In 5 years if it’s 50/50 do they continue to exclusively focus on the 50% fossil fuels jobs? I mean, that’s a choice. It’s a coin flip.
Are we back to where the 25,000 coal miners somehow outrank the X number of wind turbine workers? Why?
@Kay: I know they can’t, but I wish they would, just once, start their answer with, “Are you stupid?” Just once. I would die a happy man.
I would too, but that person would immediately be called more hostile to the media than Trump.
@NeenerNeener: Anyone who’s test-driven one of the first Teslas & taken off from a standing start on a deserted stretch of road (as I did a few years back) would be forced to admit EVs can be pretty damned muscular. 0-60 in 3 seconds? Believe it. Without the headrest I might’ve ended up in an ER for whiplash.
@Tata: Most of that, AFAICT, is about making cars safer…more crumplezones, etc.
It isn’t even “real”. It ISN’T real America. It’s this silly nostalgiac elite belief about America.
I drive thru a rural Ohio county southeast of here on my courthouse rounds. It is wind turbines as far as the eye can see along the state highway. It’s already happening. The biggest electrical contractor in NW OH now specializes in alternative energy and conservation construction. They put up a new headquarters a couple of years ago. It’s a model of new energy usage and conservation.
Why are the CNN anchors more conservative and conventional than the people who actually build things? Insurance companies are climate change radicals compared to these people. They’re a decade into insurance models that include a range of possible climate change outcomes. Multi-millionaire cable hosts are the most conventional, reactionary, backwards people on the planet.
If real were relevant, Trump wouldn’t be president. The media and coal miner culture helped put Trump in the White House. Why should they voluntarily change their ways?
Hello All. I saw yesterday on the morning thread after it was quite finished that a few were asking about an Immp update. Report:. He is doing really well. The surgical team kept setting expectations like — oh, you will be on only soft foods for two weeks — and then five days later moving him to all foods (except chips and raw veggies). Similarly, they began backing off his tube feeds early last week with an expectation that the process would take two weeks and then he would need to have the tube in for another 10 days “just in case.” But, if all stays good, he will be getting the hated tube out tomorrow morning. Good bye Borg input!
Head-wise, the tube has become a fixation of hatred for the Immp, understandably. It hangs out and the hole where it is stitched in weeps and the fancy patch to keep it in itches. Tomorrow will be a good day.
@Uncle Cosmo: My nephew, the only member of the family ever to earn a degree in engineering, drives a Tesla. That pretty much answered my questions about electric cars.
(And about the value of an engineering degree.)
In the 1960’s when they thought it was life or death for them, they certainly did care. They need to see climate change like that, because it is like that for them!
Gas got cheap, and many Americans just love those big cars. They hate to be told they need to drive a smaller car. I’m sure the car lot where I bought my Sonata last year was thrilled to get another sedan off their lot.
Have you looked at used hybrids? You might be able to find something affordable that way. If you’re looking at new, consider Hyundai – they guarantee the battery for the life of the car to the original user, which is why I bought my old Sonata Hybrid from them. The guy at Honda suggested that if the battery gave out I could just drive it on the gas engine, because the replacement of the battery would cost upwards of $7,000, although I understand they’ve gotten somewhat cheaper since 2013.
@Immanentize: Good news indeed and congrats to the immp and you for just taking it a day at a time.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Immanentize: Great news! Has he found something to keep himself from getting bored?
The coal miner’s union Prez came out yesterday and said Trump hasn’t saved them. So there’s a shocker.
@Kay: The CNN anchors seem to care a lot about what older, white people think. They still act like the white male vote is the only “real” vote, and everyone else is incidental. What white men want and think and believe are the “real” issues; the rest of us aren’t that important to them. That’s the only explanation I can think of for their strange fixations. I wish they’d quit playing the game where if they can only say and do the right things conservatives will quit calling them “liberal” and “fake”. They should be who they are and quit worrying about what conservatives say about them, because conservatives will say those things regardless of what they do.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Because they are hacks and this is the official narrative and facts need not apply.
That’s good to hear. Maybe it’ll inspire the Patriot Farmers.
My number one goal is defeating American fascism. I’d prefer to do that with the help of good people, but if I need to work with less than good people to do it, I’ll do what it takes.
@Soprano2: There storm reporting has been excellent though. This morning after covering trump’s fixation with fake maps, John Berman reporting from Charleston said and the storm isn’t going to freaking Alabama.
@Kay: That’s because he realizes that Trump can’t ‘save’ them, because they’re not in danger from politics but from cheaper, less-polluting fuels and renewables. No matter what the government does it can’t make power plants use coal. Our local utility converted a plant that was designed to burn coal to natural gas, because it was cheaper and more environmentally friendly!
I hate to say it, but when CNN puts its mind to providing decent reporting, they are not bad at it. Better than MSNBC. But it’s rare.
@rikyrah: Along the lines of “The Old Man and The Gun.” Good movie and Redford is, as per usual, Redford.
@Kay: Kay in all fairness to multi-millionaire cable hosts, they aren’t the ones pushing for “clean, beautiful coal” and ‘steam catapults’ and such. Fred Trump’s favorite headcase/mouthpiece is doing that. Now, why anyone under the age of 65 buys into THAT message, I dunno.
Indirectly trump gave us Jose Andres, who has been instrumental in feeding the hungry during the storms. So see even trump can do something positive.
@Kay: You’re such a dreamer, Kay. ;-)
@Dorothy A. Winsor: He has been reading a lot (both books and books on tape). He gets exhausted easy, but he is walking over 2 mile/day. Yesterday he totally over did it and payed for it last night — couldn’t sleep. He built a Lego Saturn V which is very cool and texts with his friends all day long. Recovery activities.
Meanwhile, a father of one of his robotics teammates offered him a programming job when he gets better at a research lab in the area. Ah, the privileges of networks.
@Immanentize: thank you for the update – good news for the immp, and sweet relief for his dad one hopes.
Gin & Tonic
When you’ve spent a couple of hundred years analyzing and pricing risk, it’s just natural. Nothing to do with politics or feelings, just typical bloodless actuaries doing what they’ve been trained to do.
This stuff oozes out of reactionary media, which targets how old white men feelz about things. I suppose fear of change is fear of death. We want our youth back, and if we can’t have that, we’ll fixate on the minutia.
It’s a win-win. Pop-pop has stuffed the garage with incandescent bulbs, as is a reliable GOP voter.
@Baud: Their political reporting stinks.. but her emails.
Gin & Tonic
Because that’s who their audience is.
@Baud: After I posted that I remembered Beto and his “WTF media?” comment and smiled again.
@Immanentize: That is so cool and what a way to build your resume.
Sure. But that’s true for most outlets.
Yes. He’s been doing well lately (at least in my eyes) with his new approach. Kudos to him.
I am a Warren supporter and also a female, but I have to admit the prospect of a female candidate worries me. I’m looking at polling and I feel like there’s a 5 point deduction for “any woman v Trump”. I know there’s a lot of elite denial that sexism hurt Clinton but since this flies in the face of my DIRECT experience with voters in 2016 (admittedly anecdotal) I simply don’t believe it’s not a factor. Do not believe. I heard it. Again and again. I wonder about this gap between Bernie/Biden v Trump and any female candidate v Trump. I know you can’t mention it to Bernie supporters but I see what I see and since I would support Bernie were he the nominee I don’t think it’s anti-Bernie to question it, anymore than it’s anti-Biden.
I don’t see how we can address it if even mentioning it is verboten, because then we get right into Insane Hillary Hatred.
@Immanentize: Having tubes removed after long periods of involvement is the very definition of “relief”.
Just remember how much worldwide effort it took from the planet’s worst people to defeat Hillary, and hope that makes it a little easier for the next woman.
And all this elite commentary to the effect of “well, if you had a super duper perfect female this wouldn’t be an issue!” to me is an ADMISSION of the bias.
Because Biden is not that great and Trump sucks, so they’re presenting me with a higher standard and telling me that’s “fair” and it’s not. Now I can live with “unfair” if that’s the contest, but let’s not bullshit about it. Something is going on here and it isn’t 100% merit. That’s not women’s fault but it is very much their problem, so fucking LYING about it just compounds the unfairness.
The Wohl of Wall Street is a wanted man.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Immanentize: Good for Immp. The job is something to look forward to.
@L85NJGT: “Pop-pop has stuffed the garage with incandescent bulbs”
Oh lord, my mom did that. And just the other day I found out she still watches Tucker Carlson (I thought when we talked her into dropping cable and streaming everything her Fox consumption would go down but now she records instead of having it on in the background all the time. Baby steps?)
BTW no damage or flooding from hurricane. We always evacuate anyway, because have you SEEN the pictures from the Bahamas?
I don’t even know who he is but man, that face. Was he born with a sneer? Good Lord. It seems to be a requirement for Right wing grifters on the young side- angry, petulant sneering. I genuinely believe it’s AOC’s edge on them- there’s a lot of joy in her. She’s EXPANSIVE. Generous.
@Gin & Tonic:
Beancounters don’t give a fuck about the war on coal. When it is more cost effective to shutter coal power plants and build new natural gas plants (or utility scale solar and wind), that’s what’s gonna happen.
@Immanentize: been thinking about all you are going through/been through. Not good at expressing thoughts in this kind of forum. So glad to hear this great news. Please keep giving us updates. Hugs.
My friend’s father from the Florida panhandle stockpiled DDT in the garage when it was banned. Then stockpiled refrigerant when it was banned. He would have stocked lightbulbs, but he died of long cancer before cigarettes were banned.
Thank you. And I will get around to the Jade plant exchange one of these days….
I’m prepping my youngest for the ACT, with my crackpot “system”. I used it on the others so I’ve really honed it. He’s such a nice kid. The others teased me and bitched incessantly and accused me of being obsessive – my daughter was like “I am more than a score” – yes of course, now take this diagnostic- and I swear he’s like “she likes this game! I’ll play!”
I do love the tests. I love that sort of thing. My friends have all these nuanced opinions about their validity and “what are we MEASURING?” and this to me is a game we can win. It’s okay of we don’t! But we MUST try :)
I’m watching a World Cup qualifier between Indonesia and Malaysia. Indonesia are leading 2-1 at halftime. I don’t care much for international football, which at the top level still isn’t anywhere near as good as top-flight club football. And these two national sides stink something terrible even at basic playing skills. I only knew about this match because I’d read that Malaysia had to have a military escort to the Gelora Bung Karno stadium. There’s a lot of bad blood around sporting contests between them and us, especially in badminton where we were once world-class rivals.
@Kay: I think you have been blessed with a short memory, Kay. Wohl is the idiot who tried to hire some woman to say Mueller sexually assaulted her way back when and she backed out just before she was to appear at a press conference. It then came out that he had tried to recruit a # of women for the role. Tried to do the same with a gay man for Buttiguige.
He is also the one who ran around MSP (w/ a totally forgettable young woman) tweeting about how much danger they were in and saying they had to hire security for their own safety. If you have ever been to MSP you know how polite the muggers are and the pickpockets even put your wallet back after they remove the money.
Steve in the ATL
Lower the drinking age! Raise the speed limit!
Moving from incandescent and CFL to LED means home and workspace lighting can be adjusted by time of day, seasonally and by spectrum. This improves productivity and well being outcomes, but we have to keep using our incandescent lamps because FOX News tells us so.
The GOP is an anchor on economic growth.
Correction: I was watching. Life’s too short to be watching bad football.
@Kay: so true.
@Quinerly: Hey you. Four to seven foot storm surge predicted for the Emerald Coast. How’s your place?
I don’t follow all of them. There are too many of them. I think it’s sad he’s 21 though. I myself had a lot of fun at that age. Securities fraud or whatever was not in my vocabulary. I was making monthly payments to a sketchy southerner for a piece of shit car he sold me that didn’t go in reverse. The Flintstone Car. We called it. You pushed it back with your foot if you got in a situation that called for reverse. That was my big worry. Looking back he was like 20 so he probably wasn’t going to repo, since he was drunk literally all the time.
I’m not. When one party doesn’t believe in science/climate change……and, the other does and is discussing solutions…
How can you ‘ both sides’ it?
From the WaPo:
Because of course they are.
ETA: Might as well paste the first few graphs:
Gin & Tonic
Newly-elected member of Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada (the unicameral legislative body) Zhan Beleniuk will be taking some time off next week to compete in the World Wrestling Championships in Kazakhstan – he wrestles Greco-Roman, in the 87 kg class, and won a silver medal in the 2016 Olympic Games.
I wonder how many other elected legislators will be competing – I suspect it’s zero, as the US’s own wrestler/legislator, Gym Jordan, is probably not in competitive shape these days.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Sister Golden Bear: My cousin teaches at Penn State but moonlighted as an auto mechanic for several years. He says electric cars are going to eliminate a lot of the automotive repair because electric motors are much simpler and more durable than internal combustion engines. What’s not to like about a more reliable car?
My husband is an environmentalist and he feels strongly about light bulbs. I like how he doesn’t even try to persuade. He just batters them with stern judgment :)
Who knows? Maybe that works. Plus/and, right? Good cop/bad cop.
@Kay: I believe it is their owners who are reactionary, etc. They just play along.
@Immanentize@Immanentize: And I know this is almost TOO perfect an example, but my mom HAS lung cancer. (Got her on a Juul immediately and it’s helped, but working on her to switch to a vape where she can eliminate the nicotine). Diagnosed, treated, all is currently going very well.
Also, happy for your Immp good news.
@Immanentize: That’s good news. Hope it continues.
@Spanky: JFC these people are just so goddamn stupid
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
The quiet part is very appealing to me. We go canoeing and we’ve been seeing these little electric motor boats people are using for fishing. They may be barred from using a gas engine in these protected areas- I don’t know. That is a cool little boat. I want one.
@Kay: I don’t think there is much Warren can do but continue to introduce herself to people and let them see how smart she is and how serious she is about setting things right. Her message is positive, but the inability of so many to see a female as President won’t change unless she changes it.
Morning to Poco and the tribe ???
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Well, if you make a living as a mechanic …
Thanks for the Little Imma update.?
Everyday, he is creating a new normal, which is hard to do, but we know that he can do it. Sending positive thoughts for you both ??
I did not watch it, and have no idea.
I just passed 200K miles on my Prius this summer. Never had a significant repair of any sort. Couldn’t be happier with my experience. Compared with driving, say, a Ford Explorer, this has eliminated roughly 4500 gallons of gasoline or about 45 tons of CO2. Of course, it’s still a gasoline powered vehicle, so I am still responsible for about 43 tons of co2 emissions over its lifetime, but you have to do what you can.
Of course, I mainly want a car to get me from place to place without problems, not as a status symbol. And furthermore, as an economics professor living in New England and teaching environmental economics, I believe my discipline’s code of ethics actually requires me to own a gray hybrid vehicle.
@Kay: you can just buy the motor, it’s called a trolling motor. Used one with a canoe for a while.
ETA if it’s a small boat
@Soprano2: Americans don’t understand quality, they only understand quantity. If it’s big it must be good.
She’s really my ideal candidate, as far as ideology and also temperament. So I’m like “oh, I won’t get THAT” :)
I know she’s not popular here and she’s to the Right of me, but I think Klobachur would also be a perfectly competent President – I do think she’s a little mean but I look at that as a plus. Harris has not drawn me in. It worries me that she keeps getting drawn into what are fights I don’t think she can win, because they are essentially where she’s modifying a prior position. She seems to see some value in stating things very bluntly and simply, which is fine, but if that’s your approach you can’t then insist on modifiers. It’s a risky approach and if that’s your thing you have to carry it all the way through, or it backfires.
@Chris T.: I agree we need better headlines. I think sometimes the headlines are just designed to collect clicks, other times they more accurately reflect the position of management than the reporter did (by reporting facts).
FIFY. I am very tired of seeing “earned” to refer to unearned income and grifting. Although sometimes, it is true, there are people who do earn what they get. It used to be more common, and there was even a time when it was normal for government spending to be extremely valuable, back in the ’30s. There are lots of schools and government office buildings still in use from those projects
I underestimated the misogyny in 2016. I admit it. And, it has nothing to do with Hillary hate. It’s nothing but pure misogyny to pull the lever for a sexual predator against an extremely qualified female candidate.
Won’t ever do it again. I’m going into 2020 with my eyes wide open, and calling the misogyny out.
Thanks. It’s just so wild to come up on them, if you’re used to how loud a boat engine is. I have a newer car right now- I bought it from my son, who buys new cars (I buy used) and it’s gas but it’s so quiet the first week I had it I was distracted and I was trying to lock it when the engine was still running. Quieter is a big selling point for me, which I didn’t know.
I’d be fine with electric and I drive a lot. They can switch over anytime as far as I’m concerned. I’ll adjust.
@Kay: Electric boats have been around longer than gasoline cars, but they nearly disappeared for decades. The last twenty years has seen an accelerating resurgence in electric “picnic boats”, which tend to the pricey side. But the basic ingredients are now commonly found on the market for not too much $$. And of course you can mate the lightest trolling motor with a canoe and get about 4-6 hours of cruising with it, per @pinacacci:
What put my electric boat post in moderation? Don’t tell me “[email protected]” is a banned word.
Oh Boris ?? ?
Jo Johnson, Boris Johnson’s brother, resigns as a member of Parliament and a government minister.
1. How bad do you have to be for your own brother to dump you?
2. Why won’t Ivanka and Jared resign since they claim to have so many “principled objections” to what Trump is doing? https://t.co/f4BZOskkzj
— Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) September 5, 2019
@Betty: Agreed. For some folks, a female president will be unimaginable until she’s sworn in, and if ever there’s an opportunity to showcase that a woman candidate can be a thoughtful, competent, smart alternative to a male president, this is that moment. Sexism is real, and it will be a factor if we nominate a woman, and we have to be ready for that, but the only way to duck that problem is to let misogynistic knobs exclude half the population from the candidate pool. I vote no on that. :)
@rikyrah: Somewhere upstream in the comments to an old post is the observation that this may be the first politician to resign in order to spend less time with his family.
I’m going to look at the mowers too. My neighbor said they’re better now. I used one last summer – borrowed- and once I figured out the rather elaborate safety stuff to get it started and keep it running I liked it.
@Betty Cracker: I want Warren in the worst way.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I think Klobuchar’s goal was to be the anti-Bernie, the Dem Against Free Stuff, but she never figured out how to sell that stance. And Joe Biden waded into the same lane, as we say now, with his name ID and his “like I used to say to Barack– Oh, sorry, as I used to say to President Obama….” thing, she kind of got swamped.
I’ve always liked Harris, but at this point her whole campaign reminds me of that moment in the Kavanagh hearings when she looked like she had some big, dramatic pounce about his ties to the Kassovitz (sp?) firm and had no follow-up. Or the rookie athlete who’s going to bust out any minute… maybe with a new coach…. just wait till next season…. In fairness, in that moment when she raised her hand about giving up private insurance, I heard the question the same way she did, “How many of you would give up their private insurance?”, i.e. how many of you would be willing to join a public option, but she had already looked undecided on health care and that just strengthened that notion.
@Spanky: I think “resurgence” put you in moderation.
Electric pontoon rentals are a tourist industry in places like Lake Tahoe, Chicago River, etc.
Very interesting story in Salon I came across today that actually sort of explains the anti-climate change stance – cruelty and inferior beings deserve to suffer.
I will never understand the kind of person who likes being cruel.
The Moar You Know
@Kay: You’re not crazy. I heard it too. And from as many women as men.
It’s a concern. And like you, I don’t know how we even address it because it instantly goes into shithouse bonkersland.
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Big batteries burn hot and VERY VERY fast. Scares me to put kids in these.
Also reliability of the engine is not quite a big deal. The last few cars I’ve owned have only had the scheduled maintenance on the engine. Any other work and particularly failures were on systems like suspension and tires that electric cars also have.
Wow. Well … we knew FYWP hates properly used English.
Hope we’re free of that particular outrage at the new website.
And we should expect more from conservatives? Especially the infant in the WH. These are self centered people who want to take everyone’s money for themselves and pay nothing to live in a society, no matter how crappy the society may get. Living has costs. Living with billions of people on earth has higher costs than living with a few million in caves. Being responsible has costs, monetary and personal. The world has to change to remain livable. It doesn’t have to change in a way that makes it worse, but it does have to change. And change is hard for a lot of people, because it means that one has to grow up and think about it. And conservatives want to remain as they think the world was so that change never happens. They were wrong about how the world was and they are wrong about how it will be and how and what it will take to get there, mainly because they don’t want to go. They are infants in adult bodies, the toad in the WH is just the worst example.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Just like the underlying assumption of the Cletus Safari is “We know these good-hearted heartland folk aren’t racist, so how to explain their support of trump…”, and with HRC there was the added factor of thirty years of “Why can’t she prove the accusations by Newt Gingrich/Tom DeLay/Darrell Issa/Trey Gowdy aren’t true?”, which I always felt– in a way I can never quite explain– was in part a reaction to the Beltway’s frustration that they could never make the public as a whole despise Bill Clinton the way they– Broder, Russert, Dowd, Roberts– thought we should. Hillary was the flypaper to Bubba’s teflon.
@The Moar You Know: I’ve been a female Democrat too long to doubt that sexism is a problem on our side of the aisle too, even though I can’t personally recall hearing a non-Republican say they’d never vote for a woman (though I heard plenty say “not THAT woman”). The media treatment of Clinton all by itself demonstrates sexism is a hurdle. But it’s hard (for me, at least) to parse out how much of that was pure sexism and how much was the 30-year defamation campaign against Hillary Clinton specifically.
The Moar You Know
@tarragon: I wouldn’t give a kid a Tesla but not because of the very rare battery fires. I’ll take a battery fire – contained – over a ruptured fuel tank spraying burning gasoline everywhere.
No, I wouldn’t give a Tesla to a kid because it’s too much car for a newbie driver. They are FAST. If you’ve never driven one you have no idea. I’ve driven both a 911 and a Tesla (my parents own one) and the Tesla smokes the 911. Just leaves it in the dust. It has enough acceleration that you could literally rip the tires off the car if you made an effort. Not something I want to hand over to a teenager.
Yes it is still a big deal. This is a disingenuous bullshit argument. Your average IC engine is good to about 150k miles these days, maybe 200k, and then something major is going to wear out. My Subaru has several thousand moving parts in the engine, all managed by a computer. The Tesla has one and that can be replaced in a few minutes if needed.
At some point we, the populace have to actually grow up and stop being cave dwellers at heart. And we are at a moment – again – when the women candidates really outshine the men. So we can be weak and vote with our fears or we can be strong and vote for the best candidate to take us out of this morass of conservative bullshit, of racism and cronyism, theft and repression.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The Moar You Know
@Betty Cracker: You’ll never hear a non-Republican, or for that matter most Republicans, say flat-out “I will never vote for a woman”.
It will ALWAYS be “oh, I’d love to vote for a woman, just not her”.
The 30-year campaign – and it was thirty years, I’ve been around for all of them – would never have worked on a man. It succeeded precisely because Hillary was female. You can’t parse that out because it’s all the same thing. AOC is getting the same treatment because people have – with reason – identified her as an up and comer. She’s not stopping at the House. The GOP and the misogynists have correctly seen this and that’s why she’s getting treated a little bit differently than either Warren or Harris.
@The Moar You Know:
I actually mean small children in booster seats. Like a high backed booster that requires adult help to get them in and out.
…and electric vehicles have large expensive batteries that wear and eventually need to be replaced. Battery packs that can be more expensive than a crated motor and transmission to drop in.
Look I get it. I really really do. I drive a plug-in hybrid for a reason. I even have a booster seat in the back.
@Soprano2: This is reason #1. If for some hard-to-imagine reason coal should once again become a viable option for power generation, the stuff will be strip-mined from deposits out West (41% of current coal production comes from Wyoming, only 12% from WV), & strip mining is highly mechanized & labor non-intensive. That’s reason #2. Eastern coal would only become viable via mountaintop removal, which is not only environmentally obscene but (again) requires far fewer employees than the shaft-&-gallery mines of the UMW’s heyday. That’s reason #3.
Bottom line, no conceivable scenario is going to bring good-paying coal-mining jobs back to Appalachia in anything like the numbers the region’s depressed economy needs. Too bad the population (including far too many of my relatives) can’t figure that out.
I say that in sadness – coal was in many ways good to my family. Mom’s father (an Italian immigrant) and most of her brothers & brothers-in-law dug coal (including my favorite uncle/godfather, one of 78 who died when Consol #9 went up like a Roman candle on 20 Nov 1968). And Dad was working at the Federal No. 1 mine in Grant Town, WV when they met. (Though he never went “down the shaft” to dig coal; the mine wasn’t about to risk the health of anyone who played on the mine’s top-performing semi-professional baseball team, on of 14 invited to a national sem-pro tournament in Battle Creek, MI, in 1939 & 1940.)
I have an EGO 56 v mower. I love love love it. Much quieter. No gas to pour and spill. No fumes when I’m mowing. I also now have their leaf blower and weed whacker. Thinking about the pole saw. Batteries are perfect! for yard tools.
In the 2018 Midterms, Millenial turn out was 42% of elligible millenial voters,
Gen Z turn out, ( who havn’t stopped being born) and had a turn out of 30% of eligible voters.
2018 was the first US Election where the Millenials, Gen Z, Gen X out voted the Boomers and Silent Generations in sheer numbers.
As Climate Change hits hard, it’s going to be the Millenials and Gen Z who will decide the who, what, when of societal triage, ……..so you might wanna be nice, ice flows and all that.
Back a hundred years ago as cars were just starting to be something that people could conceive to own there was steam, electric and gas. Gas won out because of the simplicity and delivery of the fuel to the refueling points. Electric lost out because of wet cell batteries and the technology of the time. And as IC engines have become much better, better mileage, better life expectancy, batteries still have the limitation of weight and refueling. And not even the charging locations, but the time. 300 miles of gas takes 5-10 minutes, 300 miles of electrons takes, at best, an hour. Home charging, with the latest system, which not everyone can/could have at home is not that expensive but on top of the cost of the car, is more than most can afford, just to lose that IC engine. As the designs and production matures it will get cheaper and somewhat easier, I’m not holding my breath that I can ever afford it.
@Ruckus: I had to get a new car because I am giving the nine year old car to the Immp (if he ever gets his license). I have always kept cars for a decade or more. But the new car I got, I am leading for three years, expecting the technology and cost to improve (as well as GND rebates to kick in). Then, I am getting an EV. Perhaps my last self-drive car.
@The Moar You Know: Poor wording on my part: I realize the 30-year defamation project was sexist (I lived through it too); what is still a mystery (at least to me) was how much weight those decades of prep work had on the ultimate success of the defamation campaign. Can wingnut media spin people up to recoil in horror when they see or hear Harris, Klobuchar, Warren, etc., on a much more truncated timeline? The jury is still out on that question, at least for me. I agree the treatment of AOC is partly because wingnut media figures see her as an up-and-comer. I think it’s partly because she’s attractive too.
3 hours of driving is down to 40 minutes to full charge, on fast chargers. 2 hours of driving, 20 minutes.
I can’t drive gas stop to gas stop anymore, chewing beef jerky, coffee to stay awake and peeing into an empty coke bottle to roll the miles up.
I drive about 100 miles, pull over, recharge, stretch walk for about 15 minutes, then hit the road again. Make it an easy way to drive a rented Leaf 500 miles from to Edmonton, never dropping below 2/3’s full. It cost me $9.78 in fuel to make the trip, rather than $476 in gas in the Civic.
Used electrics and used small hybrids are quite a bit cheaper than new, but they do go for a premium compared to gas models, just like Toyotas do when it comes to 4×4 trucks.
@Kay: I’ve used electric mowers for almost 20 years. My yard is small enough for a 100′ cord. Quiet, no need to wonder if the fuel has gone bad. Handiest thing is when it plugs up while mowing a wet lawn I can just flip it over and scrape the wet clippings out with a stick.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Not a doubt in my mind she gives them the Sparkle Pants and it confuses them both because of ideology and because she doesn’t wink and moue back at them like Palin
J R in WV
Taxes are a thing we pay to ourselves, to accumulate more capital than individuals can apply to our national problems. It’s the same way that in a Democracy, WE are the Government, and so fearing well run government is foolish, like fearing a loving partner or parent.
In order for We the People to accomplish great things, like defeating the Axis in World War II, or landing on the Moon in a decade, we need to have the ability to collect our assets, to apply them to great problems. And that’s how we will overcome Global Climate Change, by accumulating our assets and applying them properly. The same way we support the elderly with Social Security, built the interstate Highway System, we will replace the fossil fuel problem with solar, wind, geothermal power that doesn’t damage the planet.
How about that, Baud? You can use it for free. And worth every centime~!!
J R in WV
So sorry to learn of your mom’s health challenge! I would strongly recommend going to nicotine patches, which relieve the addiction issue related to smoking. I have friends who smoked for years, then needed months of using and tapering off nicotine to break all the habits of lighting up, on the phone, in the car, after coffee, etc.
It takes the chemical load off the lungs, and ends all the other byproducts from inhaling smoke or vapours.
Best of luck going forward — treatments are so much better now!
J R in WV
I’ve been in that mine, photographed the old underground stables where the mine ponies were kept while off work. Old Mine, was still operating at the time, miles away from where I was… was about 1976 or ’77. My granddad was a hoist engineer, in the beginning he also maintained and operated the steam engine that ran everything. My uncle and my brother worked underground, briefly.
And you’re quite correct, economic and geologic pressures are what ended coal mining in WV. Most of the great quality and easy to mine coal was gone by the 1970s and 80s, which is why new ways to mine shitty coal seams were invented — mountain top removal mos successfully.
That was my reaction, until I remembered how I felt last month when someone stole my motorcycle out of my driveway. And how much worse it would have felt if they broke into my home. Fuck that guy. Thieves aren’t heroes.