The polls closed in Israel two hours ago. While we wait for actual results to be tallied, we do have exit poll results.
Television exit polls:
Netanyahu needs a coalition majority of 61 MKs.
and they're unanimous, Netanayhu is 4-7 seats short of a majority. This doesn't mean Gantz has a coalition, as the opposition won't sit together.— Anshel Pfeffer (@AnshelPfeffer) September 17, 2019
Exit polls:
Likud v. Blue&WhiteChannel 11: 32-32
Channel 12: B&W lead 34-33
Channel 13: B&W lead 33-31— Anshel Pfeffer (@AnshelPfeffer) September 17, 2019
Other important results according to the exit-polls. Labor and Democratic Union both scrape over the threshold and will be in the next Knesset. The neo-Kahanist Jewish Power is OUT.
— Anshel Pfeffer (@AnshelPfeffer) September 17, 2019
With caveats that Israel’s exit polls aren’t always correct, what does this mean? It means that Likud has not won the largest plurality and therefore Benny Gantz should be given the chance to form the next Israeli government under Israel’s electoral laws and rules. Gantz’s plurality is razor thin and Bibi has ignored this rule before. Back in 2009, Tzipi Livni’s Kadima Party won the larger plurality in that year’s election. Despite Livni being entitled to try to build a coalition and form the next government, Bibi just ignored the actual Israeli election rules, went ahead and formed a government, effectively daring anyone to do something about it. No one did. It is entirely possible that he’ll try to do the same thing again. Remember, for Bibi, it is either reelection as Prime Minister or prosecution with the possibility of prison, there is no third option for him at this point.
What happens now is that election results will be tallied, but the jockeying to form a coalition will already have begun. Bibi, despite the outcome, will be working the phones to line up more than 61 members of Knesset to form a majority regardless of how many more seats Kahol Lavon won and to try to block Gantz from being able to form a new government. Benny Gantz will be trying to do the same thing in order to ensure that his plurality can ensure Kahol Lavan having a large enough coalition to form the next government. It is important to remember that Bibi has a long history of “winning” by the time the day after the actual election results are announced regardless of what the results were. So regardless of what the exit polls indicate, or what the actual election results are, you cannot count him out. He’s cornered now. His life going forward and potentially his freedom are on the line. This isn’t about the principles of Revisionist Zionism or annexing the West Bank or defeating Iran for Bibi anymore. It is solely about Bibi not being held accountable for his crimes and not going to prison. That’s what today’s Israeli election is really all about.
Here’s Bibi’s biographer, Anshel Pfeffer’s take:
Barring an absolutely catastrophic polling mistake from all three of Israel’s main television channels, Benjamin Netanyahu will not command a majority in the 22nd Knesset and Likud is likely to be only the second largest party there. We have seen exit polls fail before, but the unanimous 10 P.M. call is unlikely to change.
It was Netanyahu who dragged Israel into an unnecessary second election in 2019. It was Netanyahu who set the bar at 61 seats for his bloc of right-wing and ultra-Orthodox parties. It was Netanyahu who threw everything he had at this election, going on air for hours and hours until the polls closed. Israeli voters doubled down on their verdict of the last election and denied him victory.
Netanyahu is going nowhere. His rival, Kahol Lavan head Benny Gantz, is nowhere near reaching a majority of his own as things stand. But one thing seems certain: Unless that miraculous turnaround between the exit polls and the actual results happens – the Netanyahu magic has been broken.
The politician who made it his business to win elections, who did it better than anyone else because he worked harder and always came up with a new strategy, has run out of dirty tricks. And the Israeli electorate has run out of patience.
This isn’t a victory for the “peace camp” or the left, or even for the center-left. This victory was won together with the votes of ultranationalists supporting Avigdor Lieberman’s Yisrael Beiteinu, and Gantz’s Kahol Lavan is at best a center-right party. This is a personal defeat for Netanyahu. The winners have yet to be determined.
But with Netanyahu’s defeat comes an end to the spell he has cast on an entire political establishment. Israel is in for another period of political deadlock and while President Reuven Rivlin is now likely to give Gantz the mandate to form a government, he will struggle and Netanyahu – still in office as caretaker prime minister and still controlling a large minority in the Knesset – will fight him every step of the way and try to run down the clock on Gantz’s mandate. After all, he did the unthinkable by dissolving the Knesset six weeks after it was sworn in, and he has already spent a large part of the now-ended campaign sowing doubt as to the validity of the election result and accusing the left, and particularly Israel’s Arab citizens, of trying to “steal the election.”
Much more at the link.
Now we wait to see if Netanyahu’s spell has actually been broken. And he’ll use every tool at his disposable to not cede power to anyone else. Because today’s election presented Israelis with two electoral choices: another term for Netanyahu as prime minister or Netanyahu being prosecuted and potentially going to prison. The choice was never between Netanyahu and Gantz or Likud’s vision versus Kahol Lavan’s, it was Bibi for prime minister or Bibi for prosecution and possibly prison. Bibi really, really, really, really doesn’t want to go to prison.
I’ll be back later tonight with actual election results as they’re reported.
Open thread.
JPL
trump hardly knew him.
Matt Smith
I have two words.
Ding.
Dong.
cain
I can’t wait for this guy to go to jail. Given all his interference in our politics and his spying – jail is a fitting response. I mean, literally, the guy is a criminal running for office just like all the Republicans are.
Can’t wait for the outraged Trump tweets after this and suggesting it was an iranian plot.
Yutsano
Nah. Bibi will skip for the US as soon as he can’t get a coalition together. We’ll see how good his “friend” the President is there. Maybe Netanyahu can learn to relax his kashrut and enjoy the shrimp and lobster at Mar-A-Lago.
TenguPhule
Wasn’t this also said about the last election where he just outright ignored the result and stayed in control of the government anyway?
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Not quite. Bibi had a one seat plurality, couldn’t form a 61 seat governing coalition once Lieberman pulled his support, and rather than allow Gantz to be given the chance to try to form a 61 seat governing coalition, he just vacated the election, announced the current government would remain as a caretaker until a new one could be held in five months. It would not surprise me if he doesn’t try this again. It isn’t quite the same as what he did to Livni, but it allows him to limp along as prime minister.
debbie
Good God:
The lengths he goes to!
Rob
Adam, thank you for these posts about today’s election.
debbie, good god indeed.
eta: I didn’t know about all these dirty tricks and illegal end-runs Netanyahu had been doing. I did know about a couple of them.
Adam L Silverman
@Rob: You’re welcome.
Yutsano
@TenguPhule: He had a lighter lift and much more willing coalition partners the last time. If the exit polls hold, he won’t have either this time around.
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: That’s not the case. Right now he’s either got an electoral tie with Kahol Lavan (one of the three exit polls) or he’s down one to two seats to them. The Likud leader in Knesset has already made it clear that Likud will not dump him in order to form a unity government.
trollhattan
@Yutsano:
He can move next door to that guy Erdogan wants us to kidnap and ship to Turkey for execution or somesuch.
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: @trollhattan: He would not flee to the US. He would flee to Russia. But I don’t think he’ll flee. He’s going to try to brazen this out. 20 years of Israeli political history has taught him that he can successfully do so.
Yutsano
@Adam L Silverman: To be fair, I’m looking at this from the work computer where Twitter is blocked so I’m pretty sure I’m missing some things. One could hope the exit polls are completely wrong and Bibi gonna have a headache tomorrow.
Baud
Sounds like the results were inconclusive. They should call another election.
trollhattan
@Adam L Silverman:
I don’t doubt that he believes he deserves this and won’t go away willingly, if ever. His recent list of promised “goodies” once he won, sounded utterly Trumpian.
Patricia Kayden
Netanyahu wins again. So disappointing. I assume that he can still be damaging to any peace prospects even while running a minority government.
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: No worries. I’m looking at Haaretz’s election results page right now.
The average is:
Kahol Lavan 33
Likud 32
Channel 11’s exit poll:
Kahol Lavan 32
Likud 32
Channel 12’s exit poll:
Kahol Lavan 34
Likud 33
Channel 13’s exit poll:
Kahol Lavan 32
Likud 30
debbie
@trollhattan:
And Trump will be watching closely and taking notes.
SRW1
Isn’t it such that Lieberman’s troop holds the critical balance of seats? If so, won’t everything come down to whether or not Netanyahu can buy Lieberman, despite Lieberman having ruled that out?
Rob
Noted wit Karl Sharro just tweeted
“This week there were elections in the only democracy in the Middle East and also in Israel.”
https://twitter.com/KarlreMarks/status/1174083465773506561
Tunisia being the democracy. :-)
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Adam L Silverman:
Why is that legal? It’s a lot like state Secretary of States here in the US overseeing the elections they’re running in. That only invites corruption and abuse. And just like the architects of US state constitutions, why didn’t the writers of the Isreali constitution/election law foresee this possibility? Unless this is a result of recent changes to the law with less than benign intent?
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: So is it just that the Israeli voting population cares as little about blatant right-wing corruption in office as Americans apparently do, or is it, as with America, also a case of dirty election tricks like rampant voter suppression?
Adam L Silverman
@SRW1: Lieberman called for a unity government shortly after the polls closed and announced that he would stay out of the government/the governing coalition if it meant Likud and Kahol Lavan could form one. He addressed this call to Israel’s president with the recommendation that Israel’s president formally make this call before the election results are even finalized.
Adam L Silverman
@Rob: He is not wrong.
Cheryl Rofer
FWIW –
kindness
Having grown up in the suburbs of NYC I have a sizable Jewish family/friend population. I was raised with a predisposition to give Israel the benefit of the doubt. Since Likud’s rise (starting with Menacham Begin) I’ve lost those rose colored glasses and have felt the Palestinians (who’se leadership has never been all that great) have repeatedly been given a shitty deal. It’s apartheid in Israel now, especially for those that live in the West Bank & Gaza.
Honestly now I want all of Israel under one country (yea including the WB & Gaza) with everyone having citizenship and the right to vote. It won’t happen. Israel will never give Palestinians that kind of control in their own lives (or Israel’s government). I can only hope for better, but that hope is sparse. Still I will continue to hope.
Adam L Silverman
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: He got Knesset to do it, which made it legal. And his party and coalition currently controls Knesset.
cain
@Adam L Silverman:
It would be hilarious if he fled to Russia. Just another politician escaping justice. Even better he can’t return to Israel.
Cheryl Rofer
Adam L Silverman
@Miss Bianca: Bibi and Likud have been ascendant for 20 years now. He has been prime minister longer than any of his predecessors. Even Ben Gurion. That means he has controlled the government and the political messaging for two decades. That’s a lot of socialization, acculturation, and indoctrination to Netanyahu’s and Likud’s political philosophy and ideology. And Bibi is an illiberal and anti-democratic actor. If he can achieve power and his goals within the rules, he will. If he can’t, he’ll find some other way outside the rules. Bibi has been doing this even before Putin, Orban, Erdogan, and Trump.
MomSense
I missed all the news today and I’m not sure I have the energy to catch up now.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Yep.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
And he oversaw the assassination of Israel’s last, great defender.
Jay
TenguPhule
@debbie:
With a Sharpie. Over Alabama.
Baud
All five sides are the same.
Patricia Kayden
@Jay: Ugh. Netanyahu is as horrible as Trump. I hope he is still facing possible jail time for his criminal behavior.
cain
@Jay:
AIPAC needs to stop their blatant cover for the Lukud party. They are a right wing organization and after the NRA I hope they are next in the loss of influence.
cain
@TenguPhule:
Sweet Home Alabama, where the sharpie comes home to you.
TenguPhule
@Jay:
Any country that boasts about “free and fair” these days obviously do not have them.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Pentagon!
TenguPhule
almost 1000% increase in fees to appeal against injustice. Fuck this shit.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Adam L Silverman:
That’s what I fear could happen here, most of all. Replace Likud with GOP. Hell, it’s already been going on for the last 40 years.
Adam L Silverman
@debbie: Oversaw is probably the wrong word. Created the opportunity for it is what really happened.
NotMax
When the made-for-Israeli-TV movie is eventually produced, it must be titled Bringing Down Bibi.
;)
Baud
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
The GOP has not controlled the government for 40 years.
Brachiator
We should keep this in mind for Trump. I saw something recently about someone saying that prosecuting Trump after he was out of office would not be good for the country. I would like to see Trump arrested as soon as the new Democratic Party president finished his or her inaugural address.
Bill Arnold
@Jay:
There’s also this:
Likud tells media it installed cameras outside Arab polling stations – Footage of men setting up surveillance devices ‘capable of facial-recognition’ seepn as part of Netanyahu strategy to depress voter turnout in minority communities
Translated (to paranoid voterese), this means that this “leak” means that Likud has been threatening that employers will be encouraged to fire any identifiable Arab voters and similar retribution for voting, to suppress the Arab vote. Looks like there was a big FY from Israeli Arab voters.
Also from that piece,
cain
@Brachiator:
I think that was Holder. We continue to give lawbreaker covers because we need to forgive and move on, like the same would happen under Republicans. They think we can heal the country if we forgive blatant white collar crime.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Baud:
No, but they’ve basically controlled the media for 30 years and their illiberal voter suppression tactics (along with the very nature of our political system that favors rural, low population states, ones that Republicans dominate) are slowly cementing them as an entrenched minority ruling party
Brachiator
OT. California voters like old white men
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/461763-poll-biden-sanders-lead-democratic-field-in-california-harris-takes-fifth
ETA I wanted to put this up now since I will be offline for a few hours.
TenguPhule
@NotMax:
One flew over Bibi’s nest.
J R in WV
From the refuge here in the mountains, I can’t tell if there’s any effective political difference between Bibi and the donald! They both look like used car salesmen who are really successful at selling polished crap to foolish passers-by. Like their voters…
Tony Jay
So now we enter a period of phone calls and horse-trading as the two main parties try to hit 61 first? You’ve got to think that Netanyahu’s history of pissing all over the ‘proper’ way of deciding these things would have clued Gantz and Co into the need to have their coalition building moves greased up and already in motion.
Maybe 15 seats for the combined Arab List? That’s an attractively big chunk of votes for an anti-Likud coalition to pick up that could, possibly, you’d like to think, start pulling Israel back from the brink of eventual pariah status.
Interesting.
TenguPhule
@J R in WV:
One is evil the other is stupid and evil.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Brachiator:
That sucks for Harris. She’s won statewide office there as Attorney General and of course as a US Senator. Have CA voters soured on Harris?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Baud:
Ah, I see what you meant. What I was trying to say, was that the GOP has been trending towards illberalism for a while now, and that socialization that Adam was talking about has been occurring for about as long, with the GOP’s ideology becoming more extreme
cain
@Tony Jay:
The news about the Arab contigent picking up 15 seats is probably scaring the shit out of Bibi.
chopper
@Matt Smith:
that is not dead that can eternal lie…
seriously, bibi’s like the bad guy from the slasher flick. he always gets back up off the ground for the sequel.
Peale
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: apparently voters want to go with the elderly this time. She’s 20 years too young.
chopper
@cain:
“obviously, we need to make it so arabs can’t vote. get kris kobach’s goyishe ass on the phone!”
Jay
Brachiator
@cain:
Yep. Holder. His remarks even angered my sister, who is not super political. It just seems like early surrender to suggest that Trump not ever be held accountable for his crimes.
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Don’t know. It’s early and Harris has spent a lot of time outside of the state. But to be honest her statewide name recognition is not as high as it might be compared to long time politicians such as Feinstein, Boxer or Jerry Brown. Or maybe even Gavin Newsome.
chopper
@Baud:
maybe, but GOP ideology sure seems to have. feh!
Cacti
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
I’ve not seen any polling to suggest that she’s losing support as a US Senator.
Just that her presidential campaign has been a dud, so far.
rikyrah
@TenguPhule:
Evil azz Demons ? ?
rikyrah
Can’t wait to read the update, Silverman
JPL
@Brachiator: IMO which counts for nothing, folks want to win and are scared about some of Warren’s positions.
I am not saying she is right or wrong, but there is fear that her radical change to health care won’t win. The repubs will spend up to 100 million against that. I like Harris. She was on Jimmy Fallon slow jammin the news and answering questions. This is her answering questions…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfdCguhDLuE The assault weapon question is perfect.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: Actually Trump is here in town(all the streets are already closed off around the Wilshire Grand* in DTLA), he’ll be at a fundraiser in the Hills. I’m sure they’ll have Big Macs for Lard Smallgloves.
*Wonder if Trump knows they’re owned by the Koreans(the ones from the south, not the guy that writes him beautiful letters).
?BillinGlendaleCA
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: It did to some extent after Reagan and Bush I, even more so in California until Pete Wilson showed his dick with Prop 187.
John Revolta
@Brachiator:
Survey seems weighted toward landline users, i.e. olds.
Mary G
Hopefully people will be so fed up with Bibi that whatever he tries doesn’t work.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@JPL:
(Not attacking you, btw) So that means supporting Sanders, the guy who pissed all over the Dem party in 2016 and since, who’s been a total gun lobby tool for his entire political career? Or Biden, who’s always flamed out every time he tried to run for president? Hoping this can still be explained as name recognition
rikyrah
Dessalines (@Kiriende) Tweeted:
The divide is not old vs. young black voters. The divide is those that trust white voters to overcome their bigotry and those that don’t. Older black voters have less trust in white voters. https://twitter.com/Kiriende/status/1173269507730825221?s=17
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator: I’d move it up to after “So help me God”.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Brachiator:
@Cacti:
I just found it interesting that a presidential candidate wouldn’t enjoy popular support in their home state. But I guess that’s nothing new. It has to be a blow to Harris and her campaign staff
Tony Jay
@cain:
Good. He should be.
Jay
Brachiator
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
The conservative talk radio hosts who complained about traffic when Obama came to town are being strangely muted about Trump.
CaseyL
@Brachiator: Is Emerson considered a reliable/accurate polling outfit?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Brachiator: Funny that.
JPL
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Definitely not Bernie. IMO it’s early so we really don’t know what way the wind blows.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
That’s so weird considering what California is like now, but then again Reagan was governor there. It gives me great joy that Reagan could never win in California if he ran today
Jay
Brachiator
@JPL:
Maybe. I haven’t heard too many real people out here in California say much about Warren.
Some Democrats seem determined to self-destruct over health care. The easy thing to do would be to promise to improve Obamacare and to offer more Medicaid expansion, and to blast Republicans for their lies and failures. Instead, some of the Democratic Party candidates are insistent on plunging into defeat and confusion over this issue.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Being dead helps. Here in CA, we went from Pat Brown to Reagan and then Pat’s son Jerry. Then we had 16 years of Deukmejian and Wilson.
JPL
@Brachiator: I’m afraid that you are right.
Jay
@CaseyL:
Only 9% said that their minds were made up about a particular cantidate.
Right now, the polling doesn’t mean much of anything.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Please don’t tempt fate.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA: And the Terminator.
WhatsMyNym
From Reuters – Yemen Houthi drones, missiles defy years of Saudi air strikes
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’m sorry to hear that.
TenguPhule
Creepy headline of the day.
debbie
@Adam L Silverman:
Okay, “ensured it happened,” then. ;)
cain
@Brachiator:
What’s his problem anyways? Why is he so afraid of putting these people in jail? It seems that we are all afraid because of what happened during Nixon? We didn’t go far enough, and we should have put his ass in jail.
Brachiator
More from the Emerson California poll
@Jay:
I agree that polls don’t tell you everything, but disagree that they don’t mean much of anything.
@CaseyL:
Emerson appears to be fairly reliable, but others may know more about them than I do.
Baud
@Brachiator:
Like this?
TenguPhule
/facepalm
Mary G
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: She’s not good at blowing her own horn, there is hardly any news coverage of Sacramento anymore, and while the hatred of No. California by So. California isn’t nearly as strong as the other way, there’s still a bit, her answers on healthcare were all over the place, the healthcare plan she finally came up with was to put everybody in Medicare Advantage plans, which are like HMOs, and hated by olds who had them when they first appeared, because of massive overpromises of nurses coming to your house, rides to the doctor, etc. that were broken. The “she’s a cop” thing only works with Bernie Bros., but they are mad they didn’t take over the party, so they scream it a lot. She’s only in her first term of Senate and hasn’t had the ability to overcome the “it’s not your time yet” the way Obama did. Willie Brown ran over a lot of people in his day, and she’s wrongly believed to have used sleeping with him to win her first election.
She still has time to turn it all around, though.
Mostly it’s that everyone I talk to is madly in love with Warren, even if they say they’re undecided or going with Biden due to “electibility.”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: He came after Gray Davis(Jerry’s COS) was recalled. That recall was the brilliant plan of on Darrel Issa, who thought he’d recall Gray and get elected Governor, then the maid fucker made his appearance on the Tonight Show…
Frank Wilhoit
@TenguPhule: The Witch of Endor would like a word.
cain
Rick Wilson seems pretty pissed off about the Corey/House thing. I think he’s right that this whole thing is a show and getting the sergeant in arms to arrest his ass in the House would have made great television. But it would have also given the russian bots, and the Republican party to play victim and cry about overreach. But he was clearly in contempt and they should have cited him for it and made him pay a shit ton of money every time he refused a question.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: Yeah, I”m avoiding DTLA for the next couple of days.
Cacti
When Donald Trump was selected president by the FSB, the GOP held 14 Congressional seats in California.
Thanks to Donald’s personal touch, that number is now 7.
Repatriated
@cain: One concern is that it raises the stakes for 2020. See Israel’s election today for some of the implications.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@BillinGlendaleCA: I just went to see if Trump has tweeted about his buddy Bibi and he hasn’t. He must be in transit to your fair city.
Brachiator
From the Emerson poll
This is not good if this is confirmed by other polls. The Democrats have to let all voters know that they are on their side.
JPL
In order to make trump’s comments sound almost empathetic Malkin spoke up
https://twitter.com/jeremymbarr/status/1174099341348413440
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
To be fair, your state could have done a lot worse.
TenguPhule
@JPL:
How precious, expecting standards of decency from Nazi curious folks.
cain
@Repatriated:
I’m talking about jailing Trump after 2020. If he loses the election, all bets are off and he goes to jail – he shouldn’t get any cover by then and he would have burned his bridges. Start by going after his daughter and sons and get him more unhinged so he makes a mistake.
Cacti
@TenguPhule:
FTFY
?BillinGlendaleCA
@TenguPhule: Sure, DARREL ISSA.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I think he’s already here(well, in LA, not Glendale).
JPL
@TenguPhule: Can she be deported? hmm
TenguPhule
This is truly the worst timeline.
Brachiator
@Baud:
Well, Clinton did win the popular vote.
The GOP has consistently lied about health care. They have been wrong and they have failed. There is even a recent story about how a lot of crappy insurance plans have arisen under the Trump administration.
But when more attention is being paid to Democrats arguing over health care than to the GOP legacy of failure and lies, then the Democrats are losing.
JPL
@JPL: hahaha Her parents were here on a Visa. . hahahahaaha
TenguPhule
There are deep water trenches shorter then that understatement.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@JPL: She sounds nice.
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
And now academics in Texas are predicting we can still lose the electoral college going forward while winning the popular vote by as much as 6%.
Repatriated
@cain: This was my point: Trump and the GOP are already certain to pull every allegedly legal lever they can reach to stay in power if if the consequence of losing is just a 2-4 year setback. If losing means prison time instead, they might risk measures that aren’t even arguably legal…
TenguPhule
@Repatriated:
FTFY.
Mary G
@?BillinGlendaleCA: The word on the street here is that Issa’s gonna move east from CA49 to CA50 to primary Duncan Hunter, and if he does, he’ll be back. Campa-Najjar is great, but no way the military voters there get over his grandfather’s being one of the Munich Olympics terrorists. It’s unfair, but it’s potent. They voted the criminal Duncan Hunter back in.
Jay
Stuck in moderation.
JPL
@Dorothy A. Winsor: She’s a peeping tom and discovered a young boy without health care had granite counter tops. She might be the reason trump is against birth right citizenship for those in country born by immigrants. hahaha
?BillinGlendaleCA
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Just saw 2 choppers and 3 Ospreys fly over the cave, shitgibbon’s in town.
TriassicSands
If only Bibi and Donnie could share a cell. Two fascist peas in a prison pod.
Jay
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
The Democrats know, or should know, all the obstacles, from voter suppression to voting districts that favor the GOP, to dirty tricks.
Swing states will be important, and the Democrats need to understand what is important to those voters. And they need to understand who these voters are and how they relate to the larger electorate.
For example, in the Emerson poll, I was surprised to see that Warren’s support was so low among people without a college education.
zhena gogolia
Okay, trying to watch this country music documentary. They act as if we already know who all these guys are. They all look alike and sound alike.
JPL
@?BillinGlendaleCA: sorry.
cain
@Repatriated:
They are already breaking the law and breaking all norms. I don’t see how it will be any worse. The republican party have completed their journey to being a fascist party. You can’t even trust them for anything – recall in NC while Dems went to honor the fallen for 9/11 these assholes came back to the house and overruled a budget vote.
There is no consequences for any of these things and the judiciary is being replaced with conservative shills. So, soon even teh courts will be under their influence.
rikyrah
Steve Kornacki (@SteveKornacki) Tweeted:
White
Warren 28%
Biden 27%
Sanders 14%
Buttigieg 8%
Harris 5%
Klobuchar 3%
Booker 3%
Yang 2%
Black
Biden 49%
Warren 13%
Harris 10%
Sanders 5%
Yang 5%
Buttigieg 3%
Booker 2%
O’Rourke2%
Hispanic
Warren 29%
Sanders 25%
Biden 23%
Buttigieg 6%
Yang 6%
O’Rourke 4%
Gabbard 2%
Harris2% https://twitter.com/SteveKornacki/status/1174066194141405185?s=17
Brachiator
A BBC News story is saying that the Israeli election is too close to call. Don’t they know that the Internets demand instantaneous conclusive results?
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
Just turned it off. It’s not changing my opinion of country music!
ola azul
@zhena gogolia:
All them white guys look alike to me.
Rob
Bibi takes the stage
https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1174115417964589056
… in an empty hall
Aleta
Barry Berke questions C. Lewandowski. Doesn’t slow down for any of Lewand’s bs.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4817196/house-judiciary-counsel-berke-questions-lewandowski
Rob
As Netanyahu takes the stage his supporters chant they don’t want a unity government #israelelections2019
https://twitter.com/Beltrew/status/1174116009986465792
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
That “everybody else” bit is very telling.The truth doesn’t really matter, is what he’s saying. But it does. You’re either a liar or you’re not, Corey. You can’t have it both ways. You don’t get to go, “but everybody else does it!”, as a justification.
Baud
@rikyrah:
Time for Bernie to drop out so progressives can unify behind Warren.
Brachiator
@zhena gogolia:
Is this the Ken Burns documentary?
zhena gogolia
@Brachiator:
Yes. I turned it on solely on the strength of people here saying it was really good. I could only take 20 minutes of it. The music is just twangy and irritating.
Jay
https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/bjwv4a/neo-nazis-are-glorifying-osama-bin-laden?__twitter_impression=true
zhena gogolia
@ola azul:
These particular ones, yeah.
JPL
@Aleta: That was one of the few bright spots.
rikyrah
I don’t agree that Black people don’t pay attention to politics, but they are right about loyalty.
Jay Knight (@HostedGP) Tweeted:
@lizfones @SteveKornacki Most Black folk don’t follow or pay attention to politics. They know Biden was loyal to Obama, so they remain loyal to Biden. Loyalty is a BIG deal in the Black community – especially with older folks. They do right by those who do right by them. ? https://twitter.com/HostedGP/status/1174114345506213888?s=17
Rob
Aaand Netanyahu refuses to concede, blaming the media for biased coverage.
https://twitter.com/BarakRavid/status/1174116674225758209
zhena gogolia
@ola azul:
It’s written for people who already know the whole history. The narration will omit the person’s name and go, “a young sharecropper’s son from Tennessee who would revolutionize the use of the electric guitar” or something like that, and you’re supposed to already know who it is BECAUSE THEY DON’T SAY HIS NAME until 15 minutes later. Irritating as hell. I tuned in to see Dolly but she’s nowhere in sight.
RAVEN
@zhena gogolia: There aren’t even many “guys” in the first episode.
TenguPhule
@cain:
Famous last words.
Another Scott
@WhatsMyNym: Unpossible!!1
All the press is saying that it has to be Iran because mumble-mumble-I-just-regurgitate-Donnie’s-Tweets-mumble-mumble.
Maybe Donnie and Pompeo are actually telling the truth this time. Maybe Iran was the actual launch site, etc. Trouble is, they’ve given the entire world every reason to disbelieve them. And even if it were Iran, that doesn’t mean that D&P’s prescription of what to do about it will make any sense or be in the US national interest.
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
JPL
@Rob: I just saw that. Of course he would.
RAVEN
@zhena gogolia You’re not paying attention because you don’t want to like it.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
@Brachiator:
Winning the popular vote by as much as 6% and still losing is not sustainable, especially to someone as odious as Trump. People won’t tolerate it.
TenguPhule
@zhena gogolia:
Willingly? Do you enjoy pain and boredom?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
Geez do I have to do all the work for you?
TenguPhule
@zhena gogolia:
And you trusted them?!
What were you thinking?!
Raven
@ola azul: Found your pupster, wonderful dude.
ola azul
@zhena gogolia:
More srsly, heard a review of the newest KB opus on Terri Gross’ joint; and, in classic npr fashion, reviewer said on balance it sucked, in the nicest lightweight possible way.
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
I used to say this about American support for torture.
Boy was I wrong.
zhena gogolia
@RAVEN:
I wanted to like it! I’m supposed to be working but I turned it on expecting to be entertained!
TenguPhule
@rikyrah: Black and White come out ahead of Hispanics.
2% for Tulsi….JFC, what’s wrong with these people.
zhena gogolia
What cracks me up about Lewandowski is that somewhere he heard the phrase “Asked and answered,” which is usually said by somebody’s lawyer as a third party, but he keeps saying, “I’ve asked and answered your question, sir.” I wish somebody would yell, “I asked it, not you!”
RAVEN
@zhena gogolia: Come on, not liking a country music doc because the music is twangy is like not liking ice cream because it’s cold.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I don’t think I want Bernie supporters behind me.
Rob
@JPL: Yep. He’s saying lots of shit now, as I see Raf Sanchez, Bel Trew, Barak Ravid, and Noga Tarnpolsky tweet/report right now. Geezus Kryste.
ola azul
@zhena gogolia:
Minnie Pearl, tho notta musician exactly but 40-plus-years a mainstay of the scene, is given short shrift as well, which chapped the ass of the reviewer as well. RE: Dolly, reviewer did have an anecdote about how Dolly told Porter Wagoner it was time to go via “I Will Always Love You” (she sang it to him), so she’s in there somewheres!
zhena gogolia
@RAVEN:
I couldn’t watch the first two episodes.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Or anywhere in the immediate vicinity.
zhena gogolia
@RAVEN:
Fair enough.
zhena gogolia
@ola azul:
I don’t think it’s possible to give Minnie Pearl too short a shrift.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
“I’m a hostile witness, Congressman.”
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: It is boring. I usually find Ken Burns documentaries overly long. He takes 5 hours to say what can be said in an hour. I am not a country fan in general. Do like Johnny Cash though.
JPL
@Rob: That for me confirmed his loss. I hope that he is in jail before he escapes to america with open arms by trump.
Raven
@ola azul: The greater problem is for them to start when they do. I was talking to Art Rosenbaum about it last week and he was pretty sure they would dig into the real roots of American music. He was right.
Mary G
Bill deBlasio’s campaign isn’t doing well:
ETA: forgot to link to Ed Killgore at NY Mag: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/09/polls-show-de-blasio-at-zero-percent-in-new-york-city-state.html
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@TenguPhule:
Well, I don’t think I am. Trump and the GOP can try to brazen it out all they want. If they go too far they’re going to quickly find out that consequences do apply to them and they’re not infallible, untouchable gods
Also, you never did answer me from downstairs:
1. I don’t think the SC can credibly allow that to occur with literally decades of precedent backing CA’s authority to regulate car emissions and set standards.
2. Even if they did, it would be a blatantly bullshit, partisan, rubberstamp decision flying in the face of precedent, and everybody would know it. So, again I ask, what’s Trump going to do if CA ignores a bullshit, rubberstamp SC decision and the auto manufacturers do so as well, because it makes economic sense for them to do so since foreign markets still require similar emission standards for cars?
Rob
@JPL: I hope he is too.
Noga Tarnopolsky
@NTarnopolsky
13m
Netanyahu goes there: “It is impossible a government dependent on Arab parties who support terror and don’t support the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.”
“The order of the hour is to prevent the establishment of an anti-Zionist government.”
schrodingers_cat
OT: I wrote up something about Modi’s upcoming Houston rally. I have also sent it to AL and she will FP it.
Houston, we have a problem. I know, not a terribly original heading.
Brachiator
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
The electoral college is still king.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
The heading is pretty darn good.
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott:
Aren’t you a card?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: True, knives in the back and all.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Steve in the ATL:
But not a SD-Card.
Dave W.
@Brachiator:
Not to say that the debate over healthcare isn’t an important part of comparing candidates’ visions, but in terms of actual implementation, their respective positions are mainly starting points for negotiations over what will actually get passed by Congress, which will ultimately be determined by what the 50th Democratic Senator is willing to accept (god willing, and assuming that the filibuster can be made to be a non-issue). Presidential candidate positions are far more important for the stuff the Executive Branch can do unilaterally, which for healthcare will mostly be administrative improvements to the ACA if Congress can’t act to pass something more progressive.
ola azul
@RAVEN:
Can’t speak to it, cuz I ain’t seen it. Will say: Ken Burns can be uneven. When I think back onto the Civil War series, I remember having a bellyful of Shelby fucking Foote. But there’s also plenty that’s good innit, too! Would just say one’s reax to a KB encomium ain’t exactly the same as one’s regard for the medium.
Contra some, I *like* country music. A lot. In the same way I like jazz and blues and rock and classical. It’s its own joint.Take it on its merits.
But someone’s explanation of what it is and what it means may or may not be incisive and entertaining. What I took away from the reviewer guy (not that he’s the be-all, end-all, just an impression related about sumpin I ain’t seen) was that the series was overmuch reliant upon valedictory strokes from each to their own within the bidness and sorta lacking on critical insight.
fwiw
TenguPhule
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Already been done. They ignored over 70 years of precedent to gut unions because IOKIYAR. The whole court system’s legitimacy at this point is an open question.
yes, but this will not stop them from doing it anyway.
Steal Federal funding from projects in CA citing “national security because reasons.”
Gin & Tonic
@Mary G: New Yorkers pretty much despise the dude.
Jay
JPL
democracy was nice but so long …
The acting director of national intelligence will not testify before Congress this week or immediately hand over a whistle-blower complaint to lawmakers, escalating a standoff between Capitol Hill and leaders of the intelligence agencies.
Another Scott
@Rob: Sounds like he’s been taking lessons from Erdogan. “Every
KurdArab in the country supports terrorism, even those withTurkishIsraeli citizenship. Etc., etc.”Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
RAVEN
@schrodingers_cat: It’s really slow and Peter Coyote’s voice is just too much after all these years. They also spend way too much time giving totally irrelevant information and dates and I really don’t need a blow by blow description of Jimmy Rodgers death. That said, it’s worth it for me. In about 1972 rock and roll made a turn and the people I hung with went to music like the Dead, NRPS, Amazing Rhythm, Poco and lots of other groups that leaned toward county.
Baud
@Dave W.:
True, but no one is going to campaign on that theory.
TenguPhule
@JPL:
Gonna need a lot more tumbrels.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
I thought it was your central plank.
RAVEN
@ola azul: For all the hoopla I thought “Vietnam” was a bit flat too. He did ok representing anti-war vets but not so good in portraying the movement overall. The 10,000 Day War with Richard Basehart’s narration was really good as was Vietnam a Television History.
Brachiator
@Dave W.:
Winning election strategy, in my view, is to clearly point out GOP lies and failures and to promise to improve Obamacare. Keep it simple. And this is working, I think, for Biden.
And even as post election strategy, it may be easier for the Democrats, if they win, to improve Obamacare than to go for a complete overhaul of the system.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Brachiator:
For practical reasons, we have to awknowledge this and take the EC into account to win election. But it’s important to note that literally no other functioning representative democracy on the planet, to my knowledge, selects their head of government (POTUS is both HOG and head of state) this way. Can you see the US still holding it’s current position if POTUS is always selected by the EC, particularly of Trump’s caliber?
You can’t have unqualified leaders, unaccountable to no one but 1/3 or less of the population, running your country and expect to maintain the same standard of living. You end up with greedy, authoritarian buffoons. Which is why that scenario, if it comes to pass, is unsustainable long-term. Polarization is not going to prevent an armed revolution from toppling a GOP-controlled federal government when the economy is completely in shambles and those responsible can’t be removed peacefully from power.
That “peaceful transfer of power” thing is the greatest thing about representative democracy. People will only put up with so much for so long
JPL
@TenguPhule: It’s time they leak to the Post and the NYTimes because this shit has to stop.
Amir Khalid
@Mary G:
I doubt de Blasio will quit before the primaries make it inescapably clear to him that he has no hope of gaining support.
ETA: Given that he’s got a politician’s big ego, he might not quit even then.
Rob
@Another Scott: Absolutely. I hadn’t thought about Tayyip (Erdogan) today, fortunately.
Rob
We just had a Barred Owl calling for a couple of minutes kind of close to our house. It’s the first one in a few months and it stayed for three or four minutes.
Another Scott
@Amir Khalid: Supposedly he hates being Mayor, and is running so that he doesn’t have to be home doing his job.
It’s hard to explain why he continues, otherwise.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
Run out of bamboo splinters to shove under your fingernails and needed an alternative form of torture?
RAVEN
Boy the elitism is thick. Fucking bunch of highbrows.
zhena gogolia
@Aleta:
I never understood the people who thought Avenatti was so sexy, but I must say Barry Berke is floating my boat.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Ah, I see the hobby horse is back from the shop.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@RAVEN:
What’s this a reference to?
Jay
Gin & Tonic
@Rob: I hear those every day. “Who cooks for you?”
ola azul
@NotMax:
Alan Lomax wants to have a word with you ’bout ‘Murican songistry.
zhena gogolia
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
The Ken Burns country music documentary.
I don’t dislike it because I’m an elitist. I love all kinds of music. But the narrative style is boring. It’s not designed to bring anyone in who doesn’t already love the tradition.
Brachiator
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Let me try to calm you down.
The current UK prime minister was essentially elected by the 124,000 members of the Conservative Party. That is a fraction of the total UK population. Other countries have to cobble together coalition governments that may or may not be representative. A number of countries with hung parliaments have gone months, almost years before they could assemble a government.
The electoral college is nuts, but hardly exceptional. And our position in the world is more about who holds the office than about how he or she got there (as long as it is by a legal method).
raven
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Country music hate.
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Those people who would choose gargling with Drano over listening to country music.
Repatriated
@cain:
It can be. It has been before.
Raven
@zhena gogolia: Not the doc, I’m not that crazy about it either.
Mike in NC
I liked the Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition. Most people would never realize how much booze the average American drank 150-20 years ago. Weren’t many alternatives back then.
Jay
NotMax
@raven
Well, I could go on about ballet dislike, but that wasn’t under discussion. When lived in NYC I used to attend the ballet once a year solely to confirm I still couldn’t abide it.
johnnybuck
@RAVEN: It is slow, and I want to like it, but it feels like He’s trying to too hard to make country music a lot more important than it actually ever was. I mean, Jazz actually deserved this treatment because it was such a cultural phenomena for America. It had a huge impact on society. I mean, Hank Williams, Johnny Cash were immortals, but Louie Armstrong’s impact on America arguably dwarfs both of them. I love the music, and being from the south, it’s just part of the fabric of growing up here. I just don’t know that as a cultural impact it really matters all that much.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@NotMax:
Look, I don’t want to see that happen anymore than you do, but I have to believe that at some point the GOP will be stopped, that they’ll face consequences for their lawbreaking, because Corey Lewandowski’s performance in front of the House today, the refusal of the DNI to release the whistleblower’s info to Congress, Trump’s talk of rounding up the homeless, and the possibility that we could lose and still win by 6% next year is scaring me.
All of that tells me is that they see no real limits to their power. And you know what else is scary? That I could just disappear someday. That the government could do anything to me and face no repercussions. I’m a white guy, I know. But that might not protect me if I express contrary political views sometime in the not-so-distant future
johnnybuck
@RAVEN: seconded
JPL
@Mike in NC: His series on The Dust Bowl was amazing. Even though I knew the history or thought I did he enlightened me. That was one of my favorites.
RAVEN
Return of the Grievous Angel, Lucinda and David Crosby.
zhena gogolia
@Raven:
I adore Dolly Parton and Glen Campbell and Patsy Cline and bluegrass. I don’t know much about the rest.
schrodingers_cat
@Brachiator: Thanks.@RAVEN: That makes sense.
RAVEN
@johnnybuck: I don’t think being from the South is all that crucial. I’m from East Central Illinois and have been into it for years.
Another Scott
@Mike in NC: One of the things they talk about at Monticello was about him growing grapes for wine and trying to get the country to drink wine rather than whiskey. Because too many of our good citizens were stinkin’ drunk all the time…
A 1986 letter to the editor of FTFNYT has more.
The WCTU and Prohibition, and all the good and bad parts of it, didn’t arise out of nothing.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@Mike in NC
That was a good one. Burns was forced to rein in his proclivity for being ponderous and keep it to a spare three parts (although even so without padding and repetition it could have been done in a trim two).
johnnybuck
@RAVEN: Just relaying my experience, you’re right of course.
RAVEN
@zhena gogolia: Johnny Rodriquez, Dave Dudley, Mumblin Mel Tillis, Brenda Lee, Willie, Waylon and the Boys. Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys???
Amir Khalid
@Another Scott:
Funny, two years ago he liked being mayor enough to run for a second term.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@NotMax::@raven:
Thanks. Tbh, most country music isn’t that good. Some of the old stuff is alright, like Johnny Cash. Though if I remember right, didn’t he “joke” about murdering flag burners?
@zhena gogolia:
I’ve never heard good things about Ken Burns documentaries
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: There is a protest rally as well.
divF
@RAVEN: Hmpf. Downstate – practically Kentucky. /Chicago snark.
Seriously, I had the same trajectory as you did in the 1970s – prog rock was uninteresting. I had already been listening to Commander Cody and Asleep at the Wheel, from there went to Bob Wills, Old and in the Way, Emmylou, David Grisman, … .
Raven
@johnnybuck: Jerry Jeff Walker, the Texas Troubadour is from Buffalo, NY! Actually that part of the doc was interesting. The highbrows in Nashville wanted nothing to do with it. My mom was a coal miners daughter from Southern Illinois. When I moved down here she came to visit and we went to see a bluegrass band and I asked her if she liked that kind of music coming up. She was horrified,
RAVEN
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: You don’t have a clue.
divF
@RAVEN: Hmpf. Downstate – practically Kentucky. /Chicago snark.
Seriously, I had the same trajectory as you did in the 1970s – prog rock was uninteresting. I had already been listening to Commander Cody and Asleep at the Wheel, from there went to Bob Wills, Old and in the Way, Emmylou, David Grisman, … .
Amir Khalid
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
“90% of everything is crud.” — Theodore Sturgeon.
Raven
joel hanes
This is a country song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txX-kPn3h6s
This is a country song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wut4Tn7GcBY
raven
@divF: There it is. . .
Raven
@divF: Little Egypt. . .remember Pork and the Havana Ducks?
johnnybuck
@Raven: Hadn’t got that far yet, glad Jerry Jeff is getting some props, hopefully GP will as well. I have the album “Jerry Jeff” framed on my wall in my office. Nobody has any idea who he is!
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Brachiator:
I understand what you’re saying. However, since the EC is undemocratic and because of how enough of a combination of states vote overwhelmingly red, that gives the GOP candidate, who is always a terrible person, an EC majority. So it does matter how the president is selected, because the EC ensures nothing will ever change. An electoral dictatorship, basically. Unless we win enough at the margins in the states Trump won last time, which I think is doable
Raven
@johnnybuck: Hi Buckaroos
Another Scott
@Amir Khalid: It’s easier to get the next job while you still have an existing one.
Seriously, I tried to find a story like I was thinking of, but Google’s mainly showing me stuff the other way – NYC hates him.
Oh well.
Cheers,
Scott.
divF
@Raven: Nope, I just had a lot of friends from Illinois. Looks interesting, though.
Steve in the ATL
@RAVEN: some of us are busy reading Red, Hot, and Blue,, the new Stanley Booth book about Memphis music, in which he continues his long history of taking liberties with facts in his anecdotes about my family. A fun read, though!
NotMax
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Burns is quite good at what he does except has never grasped the concept of applying the writing tenets of Strunk & White to film making. Just because research has unearthed 10,000 photos or film clips does not mean each and every one must be included.
Raven
@johnnybuck: And all them other outlaw dudes and Nanci Griffith! Prine, Iris, Townes Van Zandt
Elizabelle
Elizabeth Warren on Rachel Maddow right now. You probably mentioned it upstream, but I just checked in now.
Will catch it again at the midnight broadcast. For those without cable: https://livenewschat.eu/politics/
Find Rockin Rooster link if you must; it’s the MSNBC feed.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: Yeah I saw that.
Steve in the ATL
@johnnybuck: love JJW! And he probably isn’t as well known as he should be. Don’t people wonder to whom the lyric “Jerry Jeff’s train songs” refers?
TenguPhule
@RAVEN:
Country music is simply terrible.
Jpop is where its at.
dr. luba
@joel hanes:
This is the sort of country song I like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkdjbk_G6pw
Plus Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash’s American recordings (hell, most of his stuff), and lots of other stuff. Just not the crappy pop music that passes for much of modern “country.”
Marcopolo
@Elizabelle: Senator Professor Warren is on Fire! And Rachel was nervous about this interview :).
RAVEN
@Steve in the ATL: oooo
Steve in the ATL
@Raven: Tompall Glaser, Jessi Colter….
Another Scott
@Steve in the ATL: Red, Hot, and Blue is a restaurant in Arlington, VA started by Lee Atwater.
We have been there a handful of times over the decades, it was Ok.
Cheers,
Scott.
Captain C
@Amir Khalid: Every second he’s on the campaign trail is a second he doesn’t have to go to his day job, which he’s bored with and sick of.
Omnes Omnibus
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Sturgeon’s Law: 90% of everything is crap.
Captain C
@Another Scott: Beat me to it.
johnnybuck
@Steve in the ATL: You assume they actually have heard “luckenbach Texas” or even know who the hell Waylon Jennings is.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@RAVEN:
I was referring more to the Blake Shelton-style of country music.
Or Kenny Chesney.
*shudder*
divF
@Raven: I once interviewed Joe Ely on the campus radio station in the late 1970s. “I keep my fingernails long so they click when I play the piano”.
Guy Clark.
Lyle Lovett.
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Country music is an exception to the rule. 98% is crap.
:)
ola azul
@Steve in the ATL:
A pregnant comment. Be innerested in the delivery.
Raven
@divF: The light of LA county, shine like diamonds in the sky. . .
johnnybuck
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: yeah, nobody is talking about that…
Raven
Desperados Waiting for a Train is the bomb
Another Scott
Just FYI, the Haaretz.com home page has a creepy cartoon of Bibi winking, along with the exit poll results.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
@Another Scott: Red Hot + Blue is a compilation album of Cole Porter songs used as a AIDS fundraiser. Some interesting artists and some really interesting takes on the songs.
ola azul
@NotMax:
Like puns that way.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@NotMax:
Yup. A lot of reactionary Youtubers have that same problem. They’ll literally make a 3hr rant video on a 1.5 hr Star Wars movie that was released two years ago
@Omnes Omnibus:
True. But I just don’t like most country music, particularly Bro-country
@TenguPhule:
Here’s a treat. A compilation video of 80s J-Pop
realbtl
Guy Clark, Buck and Merle.
johnnybuck
@Raven: Oh hell yeah!
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus:
That there are. I’d have bought it for the fundraiser but it’s got some tremendous music on it. I had a very late but slightly witty reply to you in a (much) earlier thread.
@divF: Guy Clark and his acrylic nails!
Mike in NC
@Another Scott: It’s a franchise with a number of locations.
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott: the full name of the book is Red, Hot, and Blue: Fifty Years of Writing about Music, Memphis, and Motherf**kers, so I suppose Lee Atwater is covered!
joel hanes
@Jay:
A hero of our time.
Literary reference, the title of a famous (in Russia) novel by Lermontov.
https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/A_Hero_of_Our_Time
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: Aztec Camera was big enough to be on that? Huh.
J R in WV
@zhena gogolia:
@schrodingers_cat:
There is good Country music and bad, just like there is bad Rock and Roll and good. And whether a musician is famous or not isn’t directly related to whether they are also good or not.
I love much of Johnny Cash, Dolly Parton, Loretta Lynn, Willy Nelson and all the wild boys of country Texas. But the Grand Ole Opry too sweet for dessert types give me a pain in my sit down. I won’t list them, there are hundreds of them
I’m not too crazy about Ken Burns’ documentaries, either. He doesn’t wait until he understands a topic in reality before he starts building his shows. Civil War for first big example!
Lewendosky should be in jail right now! Right beside Bibi and Trump!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Where?
@Steve in the ATL: Yep.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Raven: Imma be pedantic here and note that Jerry Jeff is from Oneonta NY, which is sorta the other side of the state from Buffalo. Or is pedantry permitted before 10:15?
Ronald Crosby from New York state is a native Texan named Jerry Jeff Walker
ola azul
@RAVEN:
Some peeps don’t know what they don’t know.
Which, a-course, never stoppt ’em from betraying it, loudly n proudly..
Brachiator
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Did you miss where that Obama guy got elected? Twice.
Frankensteinbeck
@TenguPhule:
My god, have none of you people heard of Nightcore? Synthwave? Since when am I the least Out Of Touch Old Far in any conversation?!
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Steve in the ATL: If you’d gotten Red, Hot & Blue, you’d know that already.
@Omnes Omnibus: No one reads the classics anymore. But how they all love to speak that line from Part 2 (my reply to “Add Hotspur to your search.”)
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Frankensteinbeck:
Aren’t Nightcore and Synthwave very Youtube-centric? I’ve never heard it literally any place else
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@ola azul:
Thanks
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Brachiator:
Maybe I’m being too pessimistic about this. GOP lawlessness and Netanyahu’s example of refusing to concede an election, and succeeding, are making me anxious I guess
ola azul
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
Welcome.
cain
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
To concede is to go to prison, so of course the guy has nothing to lose by not conceding.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@ola azul:
Is that really called for? What did I ever do to you?
ola azul
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
I could *pretend* I don’t know what you’re talking about, but I won’t.
You said, “Thanks.” I said, “Welcome.” You got chippy about that. Why?
Well, you were slagging on country music, as were several in this thread. I disagreed with your assessment, and I said so.
Now, the question you prolly need to answer is: Why did some a the commentariat get chippy with me?
Once you’ve arrived at that equable estimation, you will be long on your way to answering your own question.
Speaking frankly, which is my wont..
Omnes Omnibus
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Got it.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@ola azul: To be a pedantic editor (unrequested, of course), as is my wont, I think “shirty” would have worked a wee bit better than “chippy” in terms of strict technical meaning. Though I totally respect the choice of chippy for its color within the tonal ambience.
Omnes Omnibus
All of you deserve this one way or another: A ska-punk band covering Billie Eilish.
ola azul
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
Innneresting. Hadnt never heard of “shirty”. New to me. Happy to be enlightened.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus: You’re quite right, we all do – for rather different reasons, don’t we?
Don’t mind me, music is making me nostalgic; my local guitar player pal is having a big birthday this month and I ordered him a monogrammed Elliott capo which will be shipped directly to him. It has a small image engraved on the yoke that will reveal who got it. And it will be hilarious if he doesn’t notice that.
@ola azul: It’s in some ways more of a Brit thing, but folks in the hollers of Appalachia used it also. Thanks for not taking offense at the editorial commentary.
TomatoQueen
@zhena gogolia: This is an 8 part series, and around here, with 5 public television stations, there are lots of repeats. Tonight is part 3, repeated back to back. Bless them for a full hearing of Foggy Mountain Breakdown. Ken & co have taken on this story chronologically, and it’s full of incredible stories–and much is left out for time constraints. I’m watching the repeat now & so far am most impressed, showing the linkages, the risks, the coincidences–and a fair treatment of Hank Williams.
TomatoQueen
“Shirty”, btw, is British usage, not at all American.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@TomatoQueen: While my father was a first generation American with a British father, I learned it from my mother’s family from Appalachia. Her sister still says “don’t you get shirty with me, Bella Q.” So I’ll submit that it some regions it’s quite American.
“Who is ‘she,’ the cat’s mother?” does not seem in wide use here, though my father used it all the time and I picked it up.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Don’t care didn’t care,
Don’t care was wild:
Don’t care stole plum and pear
Like any beggar’s child.
Don’t care was made to care,
Don’t care was hung:
Don’t care was put in a pot
And boiled till he was done.
TomatoQueen
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I wouldn’t–American English is no longer what it was. The latter expression is half-familiar–the construction rings a bell though not the phrase specifically.
Amir Khalid
@TomatoQueen:
It’s one of those regional things: which expressions from British English survive in American English, and which don’t.
TomatoQueen
@Amir Khalid: or are adopted. No one will take enough of the blame for the modern idiom.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Amir Khalid: It is quite regional. Rural areas being among the places many survived. I was unaware that shirty was an idiom of British English until long after both my parents were gone.
@TomatoQueen: All too true. Nobody wants the blame.