Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Take your GOP plan out of the witness protection program.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Republicans do not pay their debts.

In my day, never was longer.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

This fight is for everything.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Let’s finish the job.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Whistleblower Report Open Thread: Do I Look Like A Man Who Would Go to Jail for This Putz?

Whistleblower Report Open Thread: Do I Look Like A Man Who Would Go to Jail for This Putz?

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  2. 2.

    cain

    I’m really eager to know what is in the complaint. I’m sure there are a lot of shit going down at this point. It will be interesting to know how Republicans react to this complaint.

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    JUST IN: Joseph Maguire, Acting Director of National Intelligence, will testify about the whistleblower complaint in an OPEN hearing at @HouseIntel committee, 9am.

    6 AM for those of us on the Left Coast. That’ll be quite the thing to start my day with.

  9. 9.

    dmsilev

    Alexandra Petri explains what _isn’t_ a quid pro quo:

    4. Neighbor D to Neighbor E
    D: I would like to offer you some quid.
    D: Please do quo for me.
    This sounds a lot like quid pro quo — it has the words in it and everything! — but these actually are just two unrelated statements. Aren’t you glad you have this guide? It could be pretty tricky otherwise!

    5. Individual 1 to the president of Ukraine
    1: We have done a lot of nice things for you in the past.
    1: We hope to do a lot of nice things for you in the future.
    1: Please be sure to look into Joe Biden.
    Individual 1, once again, is not engaging in even a hint of quid pro quo! He is expressing two positive wishes for his friend’s well-being, past and future, and then making an unrelated request. Glad we were able to clear this up!

  14. 14.

    jonas

    So I’m reading that the DOJ supposedly determined that the complaint was a nothingburger because asking a foreign leader to launch an investigation of your political opponent in order to potentially damage them in the upcoming election is not “something of value” and therefore not a violation of campaign finance law. Roger that. And fuck Bill Barr. Just fuck that guy. My bet is that when all is said and done, everyone hates him worse than Cheney.

  17. 17.

    debbie

    I wonder if PBO will finally speak up now. Trump really ravaged him in that pitiful display of a news conference.

  19. 19.

    Leto

    "We have corruption also, we have a lot of corruption in our government" Trump just told the Ukrainian president in a self-own that may never be matched— shauna (@goldengateblond) September 25, 2019

  31. 31.

    Mary G

    O/T, but this is wonderful news. They have been trying to find a compatible donor for their four-year-old whose liver was destroyed by cancer forever:

    Allow me to interrupt the chaos with joyous news: Nusayba has a new liver in her belly! She underwent liver surgery yesterday thanks to an anonymous live donor. Both her & the donor are recovering nicely. She woke up today, recognized us, said a few words & is now sleeping. 1/— Wajahat Ali (@WajahatAli) September 25, 2019

  32. 32.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Cheryl Rofer: Still waiting for Xochitl Torres Small to join this list.

    She’s up against some really dirty dealers in the red areas of our district on the Republican side, and I’m sure she’s feeling incredibly threatened politically right now. I really hate how our district is drawn to be so damn Red.

    I’m hoping tomorrow’s news gives her cover to go ahead and jump in the pool with the rest of our Reps.

  33. 33.

    debbie

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I like it, but I think he has to use his words this time. Trump is going to drag him through the mud a billion times and his supporters will do likewise.

    @Baud:

    Interesting, because Trump is determined to use Obama as a distraction. He needs to shut this down ASAP.

  38. 38.

    khead

    Man, a guy spends a few days in the hospital because he wakes up thinking he’s having a heart attack and all hell breaks loose. Thanks for the updates.

    P. S. I did not have a heart attack. Not sure what happened but I passed all the heart tests with flying colors so they sent me home. Sure scared the shit out of me though.

  41. 41.

    Leto

    @khead: You went in for the pre-rest treatment you knew you’d need for this week. ;). Glad you’re ok and hope you find out what’s going on, soon.

  43. 43.

    Roger Moore

    @jonas:

    And fuck Bill Barr. Just fuck that guy.

    And while we’re at it, fuck all the DC establishment types who testified about what a great guy Barr was when he was up for confirmation. The dude had a track record of helping cover up Republican malfeasance going back to Iran-Contra, and it was obvious that was why Trump wanted him. Anyone who backed him up because he’s been around for a long time and hangs out with the right people should be ignored henceforth.

  44. 44.

    trollhattan

    @khead:
    Yikes! Yeah, got enough colors don’t need any flying at me. Glad to hear you’re out and about, and hope you get something definitive to further ease your mind.

    Blame it on Trump-sourced stress. There’s a whole lot of that, enough for everyone.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    OT. I hope the weed people understand who their friends are.

    The U.S. House of Representatives voted Wednesday to advance legislation that would allow banks to provide services to cannabis companies in states where it is legal.

    By a vote of 321-103, lawmakers approved the bill, which now heads to the Senate. The bill received nearly unanimous support from Democrats, as well as nearly half of all Republicans.

  50. 50.

    cckids

    How does an avalanche happen?

    Slowly . . . then all at once.

    Hope the whole DT administration is buried!

  51. 51.

    ThresherK

    “Acting director” tidbit: Spousal Ms ThresherK and I are Jeopardy! regulars. There have been so many flame-outs for Trump appointees, cabinet members, etc, that I pretty much am sunk when a clue is about anyone in the Trump administration.

  54. 54.

    NotMax

    OT. Gone at age 90.

    R.I.P. Classic Ventriloquist Jimmy Nelson, 90

    Tonight marks the passing of someone who was an icon to baby boomers and to those who do what he did or aspire to do what he did. Someone who was long considered the the best — and nicest — in the business. Even if you didn’t see him perform on TV or in his famous Nestle’s commercials, here’s a story about a remarkable, talented and sincere person who proved nice guys CAN finish first.… Source

  56. 56.

    jonas

    @Leto: Of course by “corruption,” Trump meant “sectors of the government who aren’t blindly loyal to me personally.” But the other sense works well too, now, I suppose.

  59. 59.

    Patricia Kayden

    @cain: The Republicans have their talking points and they’ll just stick to them. Their audience is the Deplorable not the rest of us commies.

  67. 67.

    Martin

    @rikyrah: I think it’s worse than that. Trump will go for the too big to fail defense. If everyone in government was in on this – Pence, Pompeo, Barr, then Congress can’t impeach all of them. We can’t throw all of the bank CEOs in jail. We can’t throw all of the pharma CEOs in jail. We can’t throw the entire cabinet in jail.

  68. 68.

    debbie

    Am I the only one who thinks that Putin had a hand in setting up that phone call? “Psst, Donald. Just call Zelensky up and ask for a favor.” I don’t know what else would get Trump to sound as defeated and betrayed as he sounded in that news conference.

  69. 69.

    Chris Johnson

    @rikyrah: Because Trump knows damned well that Pence also belongs to Putin. Manafort’s hand-picked guy, meant to sit there looking quietly presidential in case Putin needs to whack Trump. OF COURSE Trump wants to throw Pence under the bus, for self-preservation.

    I don’t think that’s going to work. I think Trump is a dead man walking, and that the Republicans wanting to have a secret ballot for impeachment are desperately trying to kill their own monster without letting it see them. If they, in particular, are seen voting against the Russian puppet they allowed to run the government, they are afraid they’ll be killed like Epstein.

    And that only sounds like a conspiracy theory until it starts happening. Right now, the most damage Putin CAN do is to start straight-up murdering his pawns to throw them into terror. It’s been way beyond ‘losing elections’ for some time now. The Senators don’t want to know, don’t want to be told, they just want their ill-gotten gains and plausible deniability. In no way do they want to admit how culpable they are. They’d like to just throw Trump, Pence, McConnell under the bus and pretend they knew nothing.

  70. 70.

    cckids

    @Martin:

    Congress can’t impeach all of them. We can’t throw all of the bank CEOs in jail. We can’t throw all of the pharma CEOs in jail. We can’t throw the entire cabinet in jail.

    We can try. Challenge accepted.

  75. 75.

    NotMax

    @debbie

    Laying everything at Putin’s feet is all too unadorned, IMHO. He can rightfully be described as many things but omnipresent and omnipotent are not among them.

  76. 76.

    Mary G

    @Martin: We can put ankle bracelets on the immigrants seeking asylum and release them, then we’ll have plenty of room in the horrible conditions to lock the administration up in.

  77. 77.

    Gelfling 545

    @khead: Have them check your gall bladder if they didn’t find the trouble. I was sent to the er 3 times with chest pains. Nothing. Thanks to a nurse who’d had similar they checked & voilà. She said they never think of the gall bladder but sometimes that’s the issue. Can “mimic” a heart attack, I’m told.
    Glad you’re home & doing ok.

  80. 80.

    piratedan

    @rikyrah: at this point, I’m hesitant to say that the south is a complete write off for Warren… after all, after a few months, she’s overtaken both Sanders and Biden… has she won the nomination yet? No… no she hasn’t. But once the crimes of this administration are brought into the light of day, Republican may be forever tainted as a word/concept as they attempted with the word “liberal”.

  81. 81.

    Mary G

    i do take some solace in the screamingly hilarious irony of watching trump get impeached for trying to take down an opponent who might not even be the nominee, meaning all of this could very well have been for nothing

    it's like watching Wile E. Coyote run a presidential campaign

    — Claire Willett (@clairewillett) September 25, 2019

  82. 82.

    Roger Moore

    @Martin:

    We can’t throw the entire cabinet in jail.

    If we get rid of Trump and Pence, we won’t have to, because President Pelosi will give them the boot in short order. Then we can jail them all and still have a functioning cabinet.

  83. 83.

    Kent

    @debbie:

    I wonder if PBO will finally speak up now. Trump really ravaged him in that pitiful display of a news conference.

    This is a “Senator Please proceed” moment if ever there was one. PBO is way to fucking smart to change the subject when Trump’s presidency is spiraling down the drain. It would be political malpractice of the first order for PBO to interject himself into this process at this moment in time.

  84. 84.

    Mary G

    BREAKING: The House has voted unanimously 421-0 to release the whistleblower complaint. pic.twitter.com/AmUrow2lip— Amee Vanderpool (@girlsreallyrule) September 25, 2019

    ETA: Per WaPo The nonbinding resolution criticizes the “unprecedented and highly inappropriate efforts” to question the whistleblower’s credibility.

  85. 85.

    Mnemosyne

    @khead:

    Yikes! Yeah, I had a day like that a couple of weeks ago, though fortunately I didn’t have a hospital stay. I did get to have a CT scan to check for a blood clot in my lung, so that was fun! And I get to see a cardiologist in a couple of weeks because they thought it looked like I might be on the verge of a-fib in the near future.

  88. 88.

    Kent

    @piratedan:

    @rikyrah: at this point, I’m hesitant to say that the south is a complete write off for Warren… after all, after a few months, she’s overtaken both Sanders and Biden… has she won the nomination yet? No… no she hasn’t. But once the crimes of this administration are brought into the light of day, Republican may be forever tainted as a word/concept as they attempted with the word “liberal”.

    She could win Florida with her expansion of social security proposal. Or at least make it close. That’s the only southern state that actually matters in electoral politics unless we are talking Virginia and North Carolina which any Dem needs to win.

  89. 89.

    HRA

    Republican Senator Ben Sasse after reading the whistleblower complaint: “Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons to say there’s no there there when there’s obviously lots that’s very troubling there”
    Sent to me by a friend,

  92. 92.

    Dev Null

    @NotMax: @debbie:

    Laying everything at Putin’s feet is all too unadorned

    Yeah.

    That said, should Goober senators want to start drinking them some polonium tea, well …

    … tastes differ. Far be it from me to stand between a man and his hooch. (Nor Susan Collins, either.)

    In other news, Natural Review’s David French says:

    I haven’t been a litigator since 2015. I haven’t conducted a proper cross-examination since 2014. But if I couldn’t walk a witness, judge, and jury through the transcript of Donald Trump’s call with Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky and demonstrate that a quid pro quo was more likely than not, then I should just hang up my suit and retire in disgrace. Far from being “scattershot” — as my esteemed colleague Kyle Smith declares — the actual sequence is extremely tight, and the asks are very clear.

    Not sure quite where French falls on the Goober spectrum. He isn’t a #neverTrumper like Rick Wilson, but he hasn’t signed on as a Trumpalo, either.

    Not quite a “Debbil ice-skating” day in hell, but at least a datum.

  94. 94.

    Martin

    @NotMax: Putin doesn’t need to initiate much of anything. He’s just there as a welcome recipient of bad actors willing to enrich him. His door is open and every crook with access to 10 figures, whether personally or through the government or corporation they run knows it.

  96. 96.

    HeleninEire

    @Mary G: Thank you for sharing that. Her first matched donor fell through and my heart sank. I read through the Twitter replies and they made me so happy that I started to cry. I don’t really do sentimentality, but this just made my heart burst.

  97. 97.

    Mnemosyne

    @Martin:

    Trump will go for the too big to fail defense.

    Yup. Our elites LOVE to sweep problems under the carpet, which is how we ended up where we are today — teetering on a tiny piece of underflooring that is being eaten by termites while the elites assure us that everything is fine.

  99. 99.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Mnemosyne: they only love to sweep when it comes to the repuks (IOKIYAR). If it’s a Dem, they will go new-clear over a tan suit.

  100. 100.

    JPL

    @Mnemosyne: For those sitting on the side lines and enjoying Joe’s down fall, let’s remind them they will be next.
    fyi Joe is not my first choice.

  101. 101.

    Kent

    @JPL: I think you are wrong. But what do I know. I just think PBO speaking up at this moment in time would be a giant media distraction and something for Trump and his minions to latch onto to muddy the waters and re-litigate 2016. I think it is better for the Dems actually in fucking power to step up to the plate with a unified fucking hard-assed message about how he has gone too damn far.

    The action needs to be relentless fucking pressure on every GOP Senator starting with Collins and Murkowski and the other swing state GOP Senators.

  104. 104.

    Mai naem mobile

    Just imagine this is redacted. or edited. Have to wonder how bad the original call is. Also there are supposed to be more calls. The House needs to go impeach Barr. It’s not a huge thing but give Mafia Lawyer Barr have to worry about himself directly.

  105. 105.

    Jay

    Jackals, keep in mind:

    – it’s not a transcript, it’s a memo taken from notes,

    – the call with Zelensky was 30 minutes, but the memo only takes 11 minutes to say, so there are 19 minutes missing,

    – in the memo, Zelensky is charaterized as talking exactly like Cheetolinni,

    So there is a shitload of gaslighting going on still.

  106. 106.

    khead

    Thanks everyone. I feel a bit silly about it now. But when I said that to the cardio doc while on the treadmill he returned with “We can put that on your tombstone. You did the right thing”.

    Re: Politics. No way I was putting cable news on so I read about everything until the press conference today and that was… yikes.

  109. 109.

    cain

    @Kent:
    There is no need to pressure Collins directly.. just grow her opponents war chest. Let her keep carping about how much money she is getting. That will force Collins to do something about it. We don’t need to talk this woman and hear anything she has to say about anything. The only thing we want to see is her defeated in 2020 and left wondering where it all went wrong.

  110. 110.

    cain

    @JPL:

    @Mnemosyne: For those sitting on the side lines and enjoying Joe’s down fall, let’s remind them they will be next.
    fyi Joe is not my first choice.

    If they come for me they better not miss, by Baud!

  112. 112.

    joel hanes

    @Roger Moore:

    It sounds as if the conversation itself was a quid pro quo

    The criminal lawyers at LGM say that it would absolutely constitute sufficient evidence of quid pro quo in a normal bribery or extortion trial. By legal standards, not bothsiderist pundit standards or Republican spin “standards”.

  113. 113.

    Spanky

    @khead: Good to hear! I’ve gone in for chest pains twice. First time it was separated cartilage at my sternum, second time it was gastritis (which did not break my calculator).

    So fortunately there are many things that cause symptoms. Here’s hoping yours is just as benign.

  114. 114.

    cain

    @HeleninEire:

    @Mary G: Thank you for sharing that. Her first matched donor fell through and my heart sank. I read through the Twitter replies and they made me so happy that I started to cry. I don’t really do sentimentality, but this just made my heart burst.

    When you watch the hollywood representation of the Devil (eg movie Devil’s Advocate) Putin is right there. His siren song of money and debauchery is a never ending source of temptation for these white middle aged men.

  115. 115.

    C Stars

    @Kent: I think in fact that while the Dems should continue with the investigation, it would be a huge mistake not to continue to talk about policy issues like health care and the environment. Both because there are probably centrist Dems who are more interested or invested in those issues than impeachment, and also to underscore that THIS is the actual work the Dems were doing while the GOP was spending months blocking legislation and falling all over themselves to protect a corrupt, decrepit joke of a president.

  116. 116.

    joel hanes

    @cain:

    grow [Collins’s] opponents war chest

    A month or so ago, that war chest included $4.3 M raised by “Be A Hero” Ady Barkan.
    Collins has already made some resentful statements about that.

  117. 117.

    Butter emails!!!

    @rikyrah:
    I’m not sure I agree with the assessment regarding North Carolina and Georgia, but get the reasoning. Florida is just wrong. The few polls taken have indicated that Warren would be competitive there.

  118. 118.

    SFAW

    @dmsilev:

    I still think that if Harris doesn’t get the top slot, she would be better as AG than VP.

    Agree. Well, either her, or Roy Bean, or Torquemada (when dealing with Rethugs).

  119. 119.

    Mai naem mobile

    @JPL: I am not enjoying Joe’s downfall but I think the side effect of this is that Trympov is wasting a lot of time on Biden who I don’t think was going to be the Dem nominee. The Republicans are now asking g for transcripts of Biden’s phone calls. They’re trying to pull a Benghazi/Buttery Males on Biden and I think the nominee will be Warren or Harris.

  121. 121.

    Jay

    Holy shit!!!!!!!!

    Even the “Dumbest Man on the Internet” gets it,….

    The idea that Senate Republicans would investigate Joe Biden carrying out Barack Obama's order to pressure Ukraine to fire a prosecutor is ridiculous.— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) September 25, 2019

  122. 122.

    joel hanes

    @Mary G:

    The House has voted unanimously 421-0 to release the whistleblower complaint.

    Holy shit.
    This sure looks like the GOP representatives throwing Trump and Giuliani from the train.

  123. 123.

    cain

    @Mai naem mobile:

    @JPL: I am not enjoying Joe’s downfall but I think the side effect of this is that Trympov is wasting a lot of time on Biden who I don’t think was going to be the Dem nominee. The Republicans are now asking g for transcripts of Biden’s phone calls. They’re trying to pull a Benghazi/Buttery Males on Biden and I think the nominee will be Warren or Harris.

    People might rally around him, but I suspect that his own actions (eg defensive) might turn people off. Plus, who wants 4 years of this crap? If he wins, the republicans will be talking about this for 4 years even though there is nothing afoot.

    Warren and the others are relatively untainted by this nonsense. Although I would like to see these candidates tested by the RWNM.

  127. 127.

    Mary G

    @joel hanes: Susie wails about all the “dark money” against her and I told her $10 of it was from me and the rest is from people like me. Liz Warren is coming for her and Susie’s a dead woman walking.

  129. 129.

    cain

    @joel hanes:
    I think the shit that is in it is so beyond the pale that they had to so they can get in front of it. I think a lot of people are going down and it’s really about saving the Republican party now.

  131. 131.

    dmsilev

    @cain: Pretty much all of the Democrats who have seen the report are saying similar things. Whatever the hell is in there is not good. Very very not good.

  133. 133.

    joel hanes

    @Baud:

    dumbest man on the internet

    Jim Hoft.
    There have been challengers over the years, but Hoft out-dumbs each of them in short order.
    At this point, they should just retire the trophy.

  134. 134.

    dmsilev

    @joel hanes: At some point, just because the people writing the script for this are assholes, there will be a sequence where Donald Trump tries to delete 18.5 Tweets.

  136. 136.

    debbie

    @joel hanes:

    I don’t think he should speak up for us. I think he should speak up for himself and his integrity. Trump is saying Obama did pro quo “all the time,” which I think requires pushback.

  137. 137.

    joel hanes

    @Mary G:

    What did Anthony Kennedy’s son at Deutsche Bank know about the loans to Trump, and when did he know it?

    Other question that should be pursued: On what did Brett Kavanaugh _actually_ spened $200 K in credit card expenditures, and how was that debt actually retired?

  138. 138.

    Miss Bianca

    @rikyrah: Fuck no. I am not sure I buy that analysis for even a moment. And I don’t think Buttigieg would actually help her that much in the Midwest, either, frankly. If he can’t win any election but mayor of a fairly small city in his own state – and he can’t – how on earth would he be any sort of help anywhere else?

  142. 142.

    Mnemosyne

    @JPL:

    I’m not enjoying Joe’s downfall at all. I think he should have continued to bask in the glow of being an elder statesman rather than making a run at the brass ring. He’s getting chewed up, and it’s painful to watch.

    The sooner he’s able to go back to being Crazy Uncle Joe who supports the eventual Democratic candidate whole-heartedly, the better.

  144. 144.

    cain

    @dmsilev: I think that’s true for Republicans as well. The fact that the house voted to release the complaint means that it is very explosive.

  145. 145.

    joel hanes

    @debbie:

    If you’re dignifying the bullshit charges with a denial, you’re quite possibly making a mistake.
    I think you’re quite unlikely to see Obama even so much as mention the scurrilous shit they make up about him. This is part of his strength, his arete.
    Such stuff is simply beneath his notice.

  146. 146.

    surfk9

    @rikyrah: I’ve got a better name than Mayor Pete: Al Franken. Running under Warren would quiet all the sexist bullshit and he is moderate and very mid western as well as a hell of a speaker

  147. 147.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jay:

    Also keep in mind that the whistleblower’s report is TOTALLY SEPARATE from the Ukraine call, no matter how desperately the MSM tries to conflate them.

    The Ukraine call is the chaff that Trump threw to try and distract from the really bad stuff.

  148. 148.

    Spanky

    My guess is that the whistleblower’s complaint is highly classified not so much as for what was discussed but for characteristics that would reveal collection methods and techniques. So I strongly suspect we’ll get a good idea of what was said. Maybe also with whom, since s/he and associates will immediately recognize their own conversation.

    Ohpleaseohpleaseohplease

  151. 151.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: @Patricia Kayden: Warren strikes me as someone who knows how important it is to rebuild and expand the Obama coalition, especially by bringing in new voters, younger voters, and driving up turnout amongst non-white voters.

    Adding Booker or Harris or Gillium or Castro or (ten additional good choices) would do that.

  155. 155.

    Jeffro

    @germy: Strategic, for the EVs and for getting rid of Collins. There’s plenty good to be done just in winning the WH, but with a Senate majority? Hoo boy, here we come, repubs…

  158. 158.

    Mary G

    "When sorrows come they come not in single spies but in battalions." said Will Shakespeare hundreds of years earlier but they apply so well today to Trump's mounting woes,— carl reiner (@carlreiner) September 25, 2019

  159. 159.

    cain

    @surfk9:

    @rikyrah: I’ve got a better name than Mayor Pete: Al Franken. Running under Warren would quiet all the sexist bullshit and he is moderate and very mid western as well as a hell of a speaker

    No.

  161. 161.

    dmsilev

    @cain: Just to clarify, what the House (and Senate, yesterday) voted on was a resolution saying that the whistleblower report should be delivered to the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, not that it should be publicly released. That release has now happened. Tomorrow’s (open) testimony by the acting DNI should be …interesting.

  162. 162.

    Jay

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Yes,

    but my point is that the memo, is at least 36% bullshit about the call and from one “side” only, so it’s probably 99% bullshit and the actual conversation was much, much worse. 19 minutes worse.

  163. 163.

    cain

    @Jeffro:

    Adding Booker or Harris or Gillium or Castro or (ten additional good choices) would do that.

    We need Gillium to run for Senate. We need to not get people who can be good senate candidates.

  166. 166.

    cain

    @dmsilev:

    @cain: Just to clarify, what the House (and Senate, yesterday) voted on was a resolution saying that the whistleblower report should be delivered to the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, not that it should be publicly released. That release has now happened. Tomorrow’s (open) testimony by the acting DNI should be …interesting.

    OK I was wondering.. In that case I agree that both houses should see it. If it is really bad, I think we know how things to go. If that shit head Lindsey is quiet we know that it is really bad. He’ll be our canary in a coal mine.

  167. 167.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Jennifer Rubin @JRubinBlogger

    Tulsi Gabbard: Transcript doesn’t show ‘compelling’ case for impeachment

    OK this is nuts. She’s not as subtle as Jill Stein

    2:27 PM · Sep 25, 2019·Twitter Web Client
    880 Retweets 4.1K Likes

    In your guts, you know she’s nutz (and a traitor as well)

  169. 169.

    Jeffro

    @joel hanes: THANK YOU. If we can ever get trumpov, Barr, Pence, and the other ‘majors’ prosecuted, tried, and convicted for all their crimes, the very next priority should be investigating the curious timing of Kennedy’s retirement, Kennedy’s son’s connections to Deutsche Bank, and all of the Kavanaugh debt being paid off just prior to his SCOTUS hearings.

    truly odd…

  171. 171.

    Mnemosyne

    @joel hanes:

    Given Trump’s adoration of Putin, I wouldn’t be surprised if there a connection to the whistleblower. But the Ukraine call is a sideshow to the really bad stuff, which is why Trump thought it was safe to release as a distraction.

  172. 172.

    Roger Moore

    @C Stars:

    I think in fact that while the Dems should continue with the investigation, it would be a huge mistake not to continue to talk about policy issues like health care and the environment.

    This is obviously a case where a division of labor would be helpful. Let people like Adam Schiff, who are doing the investigating, talk about the investigation. Even better, have a bunch of public hearings run by real investigators to do the investigating, and do everything in your power to have those hearing broadcast on all the news networks and on the front page of every news paper and web site. Meanwhile, people who are worried about running for office, like the presidential candidates, can talk about policy.

    More generally, it’s a good time for a full court press. By pushing on both policy and impeachment, the Democrats have a chance to control the conversation. Make the Republicans respond for a change, instead of letting them set the terms of the discussion.

  173. 173.

    dmsilev

    John Kerry
    @JohnKerry
    The investigation will flush more rats from the sewers (Rudy!) – but don’t get lost in the weeds of quid pro quo: the president abused his power to bully an ally into becoming his campaign’s opposition research arm. If it wasn’t already a constitutional crisis, it is now.
    12:30 PM – 25 Sep 2019

    Love the (Rudy!)

  174. 174.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jeffro:

    I like Gillium, too, and he might be of more help in the south than California native Harris would be.

    Still, I love the idea of Warren and Harris working side-by-side.

  176. 176.

    Jeffro

    @surfk9: Franken is past his time, and putting him on the ticket would inspire few. I am passing no judgment, positive or negative, on his time in the Senate nor the circumstances of his departure. But there are sooooo many better candidates with less/no baggage, and many more years ahead of them.

    Let’s hope Warren picks someone who will help unify the party, inspire younger voters, and help reconnect the Obama coalition. It’s a winning hand.

  177. 177.

    WaterGirl

    @SiubhanDuinne: SD, I know from my broken ankle last year how challenging things like this can be when you live alone. Once you get through your (maybe but hopefully not) surgery, you are welcome to come stay with me until you are ready for PT.

  180. 180.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @NotMax: Thank you for providing a necessary & long overdue correction to my memories of the time. I remember the Nestle commercials with Farfel the dog like they aired yesterday, but for some unknown reason, for years – nay, decades – I thought they featured Paul Winchell and Jerry Mahoney. Now I know better.. RIP, Mr Nelson.

  181. 181.

    Wapiti

    @rikyrah: Given Warren’s plan for Social Security (+200/month for current and future SS and SSDI, anyone with 30 years contributions gets at least 1.25x federal poverty line even if contributions were low, unpaid caregiver work counted as employment, including 5-years retroactive), I’d think she could do well in FL.

  182. 182.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    Didn’t we hear that the whistleblower complaint involved a promise made to a foreign government? I don’t think the Ukrainian call quite rises to that description.

    Maybe he promised Putin that he could build a missile base in Florida? Or maybe he promised Putin he could use an office in the West Wing as a listening post?

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  185. 185.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Jay: Well, there’s defending and there’s defending.

    I was a juror on a murder trial. The defense opened with “Did my client kill ___? Yes.”

  187. 187.

    Mandalay

    @rikyrah:

    If Warren wins the nom she’s not competing in Florida…

    Say what???…

    From a poll from last week….

    Trump, 50.1%; Warren, a U.S. senator from Massachusetts, 49.9%.

    One big caveat about the results: All are within the poll’s margin of error, which is plus or minus 3 percentage points. In the Trump-Warren match-up, for example, that could mean Trump or Warren has 53% and the other has 47%.

    You might consider checking out whether stuff is bullshit before reposting it here. That’s grade-A bullshit.

  188. 188.

    Jay

    A former Danske Bank, Aivar Rehe, executive at the heart of a €200bn money-laundering scandal in Estonia has been found dead in an apparent suicide after two days of searching. https://t.co/IHdn3hoOGp— Amee Vanderpool (@girlsreallyrule) September 25, 2019

    Danske Bank was a conduit for Russian Money Laundering to all the “Ususal” Suspect Banks. It was used to first wash money, on it’s trip to London, Munich, Cyprus, Mar-a-legofuckyourself, to conceal the Russian origin.

  189. 189.

    Tata

    Can anyone explain what that Pelosi’s not Speaker of the House anymore stuff meant? Has Vlad assured him the House fix is in?

  192. 192.

    Jay

    Most significant part of that presser was Trump roping Pence into the whole mess and volunteering to make Pence's conversations public as well.— Chris Hayes (@chrislhayes) September 25, 2019

    Fun Fact, the Speaker of the House has to be elected by the House,

    But doesn’t have to be elected to the House.

  193. 193.

    Mandalay

    @Jay: From your link:

    Police said on Wednesday that after two days of searching for Aivar Rehe … they had found his body at his home in the capital of Tallinn…

    Police declined to give further details, but people familiar with the investigation said there were no doubts that the 56-year-old had taken his own life.

    Sooo…two days of searching before checking even checking his home, and anonymous sources immediately insisting that it was definitely suicide.

    Nothing to see here. Please move along.

  194. 194.

    JGabriel

    @jonas:

    So I’m reading that the DOJ supposedly determined that the complaint was a nothingburger because asking a foreign leader to launch an investigation of your political opponent in order to potentially damage them in the upcoming election …

    … is okay, if you’re a Republican.

  195. 195.

    Fair Economist

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Still waiting for Xochitl Torres Small to join this list.

    We have 218, so if somebody in a tough district wants a break they can have it.

    No excuse for Tulsi, of course.

  196. 196.

    Jeffro

    @Tata: It is a HUGE trope on the right that AOC and/or the ‘Squad’ is the mastermind, pulling Nancy Smash’s strings.

    Yes, really.

  197. 197.

    surfk9

    @Jeffro: I certainly understand what you are saying about the age. But my thought was to take @rikyrah’s idea to another conclusion. I think Beto or one of the Castro’s would balance a Warren ticket better. As for a Warren/Harris ticket, I think that is probably too coastal and I say that as a Californian.

  198. 198.

    Jeffro

    @Mandalay: Aren’t there several sci-fi series that have the world divided into blocs, and one of those is an Eastern European/Russian one that’s basically one big crime syndicate?

    Such fabulists!

  199. 199.

    Jay

    @Tata:

    Cheetolinni gaslighting again. Every 19 out of 20 words out of his mouth is either gaslighting or bullshitting including the pronouns.

  201. 201.

    NotMax

    @Uncle Cosmo

    Trivia: The audible “SNAP” of Farfel’s jaw shutting at the end was a mistake that cropped up during a rehearsal. The advertiser reps liked it so much they asked Mr. Nelson to keep it in.

  202. 202.

    Raoul

    @HRA: The fuller quote has some more typical Dem bashing, but it is still (for Sasse) rather more neck-sticking-out than we’ve seen to now.

    @frankthorp
    SASSE after reading the whistleblower complaint: “Really troubling things here. Republicans ought not just circle the wagons, and democrats ought not have been using words like impeachment before they knew anything about the actual substance.”

    I guess there’s more

    Republicans ought not to be rushing to circle the wagons and say there’s no there there when there’s obviously a lot that’s very troubling there.

    This second bit is … interesting. He may be cracking. Can he bring Collins, Gardner and a couple others with him? Mittens seems likely to join this.

  203. 203.

    Marcopolo

    @Mandalay: Also, and haven’t looked carefully at the thread, I’d guess if Warren were the nominee she’d be inclined to select a POC as her running mate. And I haven’t seen any polling that shows Mayor Pete having particular appeal w/ WWC voters. Johnson’s entire comment seems a bit off base.

  204. 204.

    Jeffro

    @surfk9: Fair enough. I think the only folks who worry about ‘coastal elites’ are the people who would never vote Dem anyway (ie, Warren alienates zero Dems/Dem-leaning independents/new voters by putting Harris or Gillium on the ticket)

    Also, the data seems to suggest that the VP choice doesn’t really mean a whole lot on either side, in any given election. So we’re probably overthinking all this. :)

    And yet…Harris, Booker, Gillium, Castro…great choices, all!

  205. 205.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @dmsilev: Mannagia, “Julie-Annie” Ghouliani, America’s Fuckin’ Goombah. Everyone like me with ancestry traced back to The Boot (or its Triangular Football) would be muttering Che vergogna! if so many of them weren’t themselves bigots of the vilest sort (last off the boat, first to yank up the gangplank). (As one Jewish friend remarked to me, Remember the time before we were white? I don’t, but my folks sure did, & I learned. Too many italoamericani don’t & won’t.)

  206. 206.

    joel hanes

    @NotMax:

    It’s a great pity that Nestle has never in its corporate history made anything that even approached being “the very best”.
    Chocolate.

    And then there was that baby-formula-in-Africa thing.

  207. 207.

    zhena gogolia

    Lots of chickens being counted before they’re hatched on this thread.

    There have been no primaries yet.

  208. 208.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Mandalay:

    said there were no doubts that the 56-year-old had taken his own life.

    Of course there were no doubts, the dude shot himself in the back of the head three times, just to be sure.

    [No, I don’t know any actual facts.]

  209. 209.

    Millard Filmore

    @joel hanes:

    strongly imply that the complaint and the Zelenskiy phone call are at least connected.

    NPR today had an interview with (I believe) Adam Schiff, and I picked up the definite impression that the Zelenskiy phone call was part of the whistle blowing package.

  210. 210.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jeffro:

    “Coastal elites” is a code word, which is why they called Obama one even though Chicago doesn’t have a fucking coast. ?

  213. 213.

    Tata

    @Jay: So the Orange Menace is saying Pelosi’s AOC’s puppet? Of course, he gaslights and lies and insults, but when he says something as perpendicular to reality as Pelosi’s not Speaker anymore, what – what?

    I wondered if he were having her arrested or something.

  214. 214.

    Mnemosyne

    @zhena gogolia:

    I think we’re all just enjoying running around picking up the eggs and wondering what’s going to hatch. Biden was barely on my radar in 2008 and he turned out to be a fabulous VP choice.

  215. 215.

    Mnemosyne

    @dmsilev:

    Sort of? I mean, the US Coast Guard has stations there because the Great Lakes are basically freshwater seas, but lakes have shores, not coasts.

  216. 216.

    chris

    @Jeffro:

    It is a HUGE trope on the right that AOC and/or the ‘Squad’ is the mastermind, pulling Nancy Smash’s strings.

    I know right? Did you see what AOC did today? Pure evil!!!!!!!!! No doubt Nancy will immediately pivot to “The Just Society” bill.//

  217. 217.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Raoul: “What’s really unacceptable about the President’s illegal and unconstitutional lawbreaking is that Democrats had to threaten him with impeachment to get him to stop stonewalling all details.”

    Ben Sasse – kind of a dick.

  220. 220.

    prostratedragon

    @jonas: Who needs final evaluations? Clearly they’re no better than par, and that’s with all that we don’t yet know about Mr. Wolf Barr. He can only sink.

  221. 221.

    Jeffro

    @chris: They are flailing and confused about who to hate ever since Hillz “lost”.

    I’ve pointed this out many times to RWNJ relatives – “y’all are always just casting about, looking for the next person to hate enough that your critical thinking skills shut down”. They never seem to have much of a response to that.

  222. 222.

    joel hanes

    I’m told that the German government raided Deutsche Bank today.

    The schadenfreude is becoming too much.

  223. 223.

    zhena gogolia

    @Mnemosyne:

    It sometimes makes me feel good to think about all the great candidates we have. Then I realize that Drumpf still might win and I get depressed again.

  224. 224.

    surfk9

    @Jeffro: Actually it is the whole coastal elite thing that put me off Mayor Pete. He came out to San Francisco, I think in June, and bagged on coastal’s taking flyovers for granted. I live an hour inland from where he spoke and he sounded like all of the other mid westerners who’s only view of California is guided by vacations to the Bay Area, Los Angeles and San Diego. The Central Valley is one of the most productive agricultural areas in the world dwarfing many of those flyover states. If you go to towns like the one that I live in, you will find places that are not much different from mid western areas. The point is, people who judge California only by San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego and judge all of California by just a few areas don’t know shit. Mayor Pete lost any chance of my support in the primaries with his remark.

  225. 225.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Mary G: That guy needs to be investigated!!!

    Does Trump maybe have something on him to pressure him to quit and make room for Kav??

    Why is RBG saying this NOW?

  227. 227.

    Jay

    At an anti-corruption summit on Ukraine, I had the pleasure of meeting Rouslan Riaboshapka, the new young reformer Prosecutor General of Ukraine. He's a standup guy who has much bigger fish to fry than letting himself get dragged into US politics by the far-right.— Andrea Chalupa (@AndreaChalupa) September 25, 2019

  229. 229.

    mad citizen

    Reading this thread I’m starting to think I should carry around my celebratory air horn with me at all times so I’m ready for a sudden resignation. I wonder if he will be considered a flight risk, and how post-presidency secret service protection will work in some other nation.

  230. 230.

    joel hanes

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    [Ady Barkan] has ALS?

    Yes. He’s been doing the “Be A Hero” campaign as his attempt to use the last few years of his life to change the world for the better.

    Ady lost the strength to breath normally a week or so ago, and has had a tracheotomy to extend his active life.

  232. 232.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Mnemosyne: This one is paraphrased from memory, from my copy of Political Jokes of Leningrad (early 1980s):

    A Soviet tour group was on a bus tour around Budapest. Their Hungarian guide was describing the sights they pass in flawless Russian. When she identified one building as “the Naval Ministry,”one of the tourist shouted, “Wait a minute! How can Hungary have a Naval Ministry?? You have no coastline!”**

    The guide shot back, “Why should that bother you? Doesn’t the USSR have a Ministry of Culture?”

    ::mic-drop::

    ** IIRC it was the former Naval Ministry, from Hapsburg days.

  233. 233.

    Jay

    @Tata:

    Orangemandious doesn’t know shit about anything, so of course he blurted out the “she’s not Speaker anymore”, because that’s how he see’s her in his mind.

    He’s clueless and flailing.

  234. 234.

    MomSense

    I had no time to look at any news today so now it’s like news tsunami here, except Rachel. She’s apparently going to spend the long opener talking about Spiro Agnew.

    Also too I could feel a cold kicking in as I drove home from work today. And now it’s full blown pestilence.

  235. 235.

    JanieM

    @Mnemosyne:

    Chicago doesn’t have a fucking coast.

    Sure it does. :-)

    For the record:

    There are 4,530 miles of U.S. coastline for the five Great Lakes. That’s longer than the 2,165 miles of coast for the 14 states on the Atlantic Ocean, and the 1,293 miles of coast for California, Oregon and Washington on the West Coast.

    We (for some values of “we”) call it the North Coast, as in the North Coast Music Festival in Chicago. I was just out visiting my relatives in my home town on Lake Erie, and it’s not an uncommon phrase there, either.

    Edited for clarity.

  237. 237.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Mnemosyne: OT—Just fhought—when the Panama Papers were investigating where politicians and wealthy people had their money stashed—were any newspaper, TV, radio owners, pundits, reporters investigated?

  238. 238.

    WaterGirl

    @MomSense:

    Also too I could feel a cold kicking in as I drove home from work today. And now it’s full blown pestilence.

    Wow, that’s moving really fast. I hope you can nip it in the bud. I missed everything about your new job – do you have weekends off so you can take it easy this weekend?

  239. 239.

    Jay

    Zelensky listing off all the ways Ukraine is fighting corruption makes @realDonaldTrump's extortion of him to invent dirt on a political opponent in exchange for aid all the more heartbreaking. Here's a country that's a shining example to a region plagued by autocrats.— Andrea Chalupa (@AndreaChalupa) September 25, 2019

  240. 240.

    Sab

    @surfk9: I hate the idea of a Warren/Harris or Harris/Warren ticket because it’s a huge loss to the Senate if both of them were gone. There are lots of really quality people out there (eg Castro, Buttigieg, O’Rourke, others not running for Pres) who would be good VP candidates and wouldn’t leave a gaping hole where they were pulled from.

    My one biggest knock against Obama is that he needlessly depleted the Senate of to staff his cabinet.

  242. 242.

    JanieM

    lakes have shores, not coasts.

    From Wikipedia:

    The coast, also known as the coastline or seashore, is the area where land meets the sea or ocean,[1] or a line that forms the boundary between the land and the ocean or a lake.[2]

    (My bold.)

    The dictionary says, in brief, that “coast” is the land near a shore…..

  243. 243.

    Ken

    @Tata: @Jay: Great, now Trump will show a picture of the House leadership with Pelosi’s face scribbled out with a Sharpie, and a big circle drawn around someone else with “Speaker” written above. Then he’ll start referring to “Speaker Jones” in all his speeches.

    And everyone in the White House will have to agree with it.

  244. 244.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Jeffro: All the Far Wrong needs to clump up tight as anthrax spores in a sauna is someone to hate. Don’t even have to hate ’em for the same reason. While we on the left shun anyone who dares to disagree with even one entry in our ‘lebenty-seven-point manifesto.

    Maybe for just this once, we ought to take a play out of their playbook & rally round some shared contempt. Even if you exclude Orangecandyass, there’s so many contemptibles over there, pick one from Column A, two from Column B…

  247. 247.

    Jay

    We should really start a Tulsi1776 Twitter parody account – "Launching a revolution will be terribly divisive for the King and our fledgling colonies."— Scott Bisang (@sbis85) September 25, 2019

  250. 250.

    HRA

    @Raoul:

    Thanks for sending the rest of the article. My friend knew I was interested in what Sasse would think after the meeting with Senator Barr’s committee.

  252. 252.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Jay: Did Trump just classify the entire whistleblower complaint so that no one can talk about it? !?

    Someone in thread said Pelosi just said that?!?

  254. 254.

    Jeffro

    @Jay: I think he really does think – egged on by RWNJ “media” – that AOC is just pulling Nancy Smash’s strings. As if there were no other, much more likely, possibilities.

  255. 255.

    Jay

    "the Ukrainian initiative appears to have begun in service of formulating a rationale by which the president could pardon Manafort, as part of an effort to undermine the special counsel’s investigation."— Scott Stedman (@ScottMStedman) September 25, 2019

  258. 258.

    JanieM

    I live an hour inland from where he spoke and he sounded like all of the other mid westerners who’s only view of California is guided by vacations to the Bay Area, Los Angeles and San Diego.

    Then there are all those East Coast and West Coast folks who don’t think we have a North Coast….. ;-)

    With a major maritime tradition, in fact.

  259. 259.

    Jeffro

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Agreed. There is always some way in which the ticket needs ‘balance’ to please the Beltway media gods.

    Unless it’s Clinton/Gore, and then it’s a novel way to reinforce the ‘New Democrat’ message.

    Or whatever.

    I remain shocked that picking Quayle didn’t automatically throw GHWB’s judgment into question in a campaign-ending kind of way. Quayle no doubt feels the same. =)

  260. 260.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Mandalay: Nothing to question here!

    They’re trying to compete with the U in New Zealand where a male student lay dead in his room for 2 months before being found? [That story is horrible!]

  262. 262.

    MomSense

    @WaterGirl:

    I’ve been fighting it all day but it finally caught up. I stopped to pick up hot and sour soup on the way home and they put an extra soup and an extra broth in my bag- I must look like I feel!

    The new job is very Monday – Friday 9-5, and everyone is really nice. The commute is a little wild, however.

  263. 263.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @MomSense: Talking about Agnew might just be germane. He resigned as VPOTUS as part of a plea deal to avoid jail time for a slam-dunk case of accepting bribes. Agnew was so despised by Democrats that as VPOTUS he was the major roadblock to getting rid of Nixon – no Congressional Democrat in his/her right mind would vote to remove POTUS if it sent Spiro to the WH. I am morally certain Tricky Dick knew that & counted on it – Agnew was his human anti-impeachment shield.

    The plea deal pissed off MD USA George Beall & his staff, who yearned to see the former MD Governor do hard time, but USAG Eliot Richardson decided it was more important to ensure that somewhere down the line (about 10 months later as it turned out) the nation was not faced with the Hobson’s choice between an ethically compromised POTUS and an ethically compromised and demonstrably criminal successor.

    Agnew’s accepting the deal effectively established the precedent that though a sitting POTUS might not be vulnerable to indictment, conviction & incarceration, a sitting VPOTUS is. If sufficient dirt on Mikey Dense surfaces, it might be important to have that as a prybar to move his imbecile arse off his chair. Y’think mebbe?

  264. 264.

    Jay

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    As far as I am aware, the Whistleblower’s statement, was always classified.

    Certain members of the House and Senate Commitee’s have been allowed to read the unredacted report, in a Secure Room.

    As far as I am aware, the President has authority to declassify, not classify.

  272. 272.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @joel hanes: I spent 1 month in Germany in the summer’s of 89, 90, and 91. Deutsche Bank was such an impressive and imposing presence on so many corners in so many cities. It seemed the epitome of respectsbility and integrity.

    I went into many to cash travelers checks when their exchange rate was competitive.

  273. 273.

    mad citizen

    @Jay: Whatever, classified or not, information wants to be free, and seems this information is headed for freedom.

  274. 274.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Calouste: Correct: Admiral in the Austro-Hungarian Navy, which did in fact have a coastline (in what is now Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia). Regent for the former King of Hungary, one of the two titles the Hapsburg head of state held from the Ausgleich of 1867 to the end of WW1 (the other being Emperor of Austria, hence the term Dual Monarchy, hence the term kaiserlich und königlich, “Imperial and Royal”, to describe the state institutions common to both). Hungary became a constitutional monarchy in 1920 but the king was blocked from returning to the throne; Horthy ruled in his stead. /TMI

  275. 275.

    japa21

    The way I know just how bad the whistleblower report is is that I have not heard a single Republican who read it try to minimize it.

  277. 277.

    Ruckus

    @Ladyraxterinok:
    Two months?
    We had a older gentleman in our apt building die in the tub and he wasn’t found for two weeks. But we knew something was very wrong from the stench coming through the walls. You couldn’t tell for about a week and a half but then it grew rapidly. The manager I think had had this happen before and knew what that smell meant. Anyway, poor ole guy was gone. But 2 months? And no one figured it out or at least complained? Yeah, I’m not buying that.

  279. 279.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Jay: Why don’t we just start referring to her as Quisli? Quisli Gabbardova. (I left the “-a” off last time I tried this, sorry.)

  280. 280.

    MomSense

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    She did a whole podcast series on l’affaire Agnew and has brought it up many times on her show over the last year and a half plus. This is a just deliver the news kind of night.

  281. 281.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @PJ: Assigning Trst (Trieste) to Italy essentially cut it off from its hinterland & as I understand it, the place has been sliding down into backwaterhood for the last 70 years as a result.

  282. 282.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: McCain’s pick of Palin was appalling on so many levels. I think people who might have voted for him didn’t because they worried about his age and health and the real possibility that she might become president by default.

    I have at times wondered if he picked her because he knew this dynamic existed and really didn’t want to be president.

  283. 283.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @MomSense: FWIW not all that long after the event, I picked up & read a remainder copy of A Heartbeat Away, which tells the story of Agnew’s fall. It’s still on my bookshelf. I lived & was politically aware through the days when Agnew was my County Executive, then Governor, then VPOTUS. I rather doubt Dr Maddow has all that much to tell me about it I don’t already know, but it’s good others are being filled in.

  284. 284.

    Ken

    @Baud: @JanieM: @Sab: I’m sure saying Harris isn’t in the Senate was just a “senior moment”, much like Trump’s – well, entire day week year term in office; but specifically when he said Pelosi wasn’t Speaker.

  285. 285.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Ruckus: Saw report linked somewhere. Claim was that room was at end of very long hall that was not on cleaning staff’s list.

    Agree. Story sounded very suspect.

  286. 286.

    PJ

    @Uncle Cosmo: Well, it’s no longer an “important” city, but I was there about 15 years ago, and the citizens seemed pretty proud to be Triestians (sp?), and thought of themselves as different (i.e., superior to) than other Italians. To an ugly American tourist, it did seem noticeably cleaner than most Italian cities I have visited.

  287. 287.

    JanieM

    @Ken: Yeah, after I wrote my comment I wondered if joel hanes maybe left out a word. “Needed” makes the first sentence work well with the second:

    Harris is not needed in the Senate.
    California will send a liberal Democrat to her seat if she’s AG.

  289. 289.

    WaterGirl

    @MomSense: Funny/sweet that they gave you extras. When you are feeling better, I hope to hear more about your new job. Hopefully the only person you need to take care of this weekend will be yourself!

  291. 291.

    joel hanes

    @Ken:

    saying Harris isn’t in the Senate was just a “senior moment”,

    Exactly.
    It was Feinstein and Boxer for so long …
    calcified neurons.

  292. 292.

    Ruckus

    @joel hanes:
    In a shit show, everyone is bound to get a bit on them from time to time, and this maladministration is a shit show of massively epic proportions.

  296. 296.

    Miss Bianca

    @Ken:

    Great, now Trump will show a picture of the House leadership with Pelosi’s face scribbled out with a Sharpie, and a big circle drawn around someone else with “Speaker” written above. Then he’ll start referring to “Speaker Jones” in all his speeches.

    OK, that’s my horror comedy image for the night, thank yew very much…not!

  298. 298.

    Mnemosyne

    @JanieM:

    And yet no one ever refers to people from Cleveland as “coastal elites.”

    Didn’t you ever wonder why the black politician from Chicago was being labeled a “coastal elite”? It ain’t because he lived near Lake Michigan. It’s a code word.

  300. 300.

    JAFD

    @SiubhanDuinne: Sending you some healing energy. Hope you’re ‘back together’ soon. Would duplicate Water Girl’s offer, but my place barely big enuf for me and my stough…

    @Uncle Cosmo: If anyone is really interested, would recommend John Biggins’ series of historical novels: The Emperor’s Colored Coat, Tomorrow the World, The Two-Headed Eagle, and A Sailor of Austria

    @MomSense: My grandfather would recommend a mug of hot tea with honey and lemon and a shot of Scotch. You may not kill the germs, but at least you’ll show them a good time ;-)

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