Busy day for the NYT Reader Center, I'm guessing
— Margaret Sullivan (@Sulliview) September 26, 2019
Sullivan, of course, is the former public editor for the Times, a position that no longer exists and really should. She was very good, and there are other experienced journalists who could fill that role.
There was no real reason for the Times to burn the whistleblower, other than to have a “scoop”. (Frankly, if this were another news outlet, I’d give them the benefit of the doubt, but it’s part of a pattern of terrible judgment). Baquet’s excuse that he wanted readers to understand more about this person is vacuous: a great deal of the complaint is obviously credible since the call summary released yesterday backs it up. And of course the Times routinely gives sources (far too much) anonymity behind which they can dish up the daily spin from the White House or Congress.
The Times’ coverage of 6 “swing voters” who were actually Trump supporters went pretty much unnoticed due to the other news of the day, but it was awful journalism. The notion that we’re supposed to subscribe to this rag to support their reporters calling the same half-dozen MAGA hats who they treat like a representative slice of middle america is nuts.
BTW, if you want to see what good journalism about Trumpland looks like, check out this piece about evangelicals in the Post by Elizabeth Breunig. She grew up in the church, and she at least has some insight, as well as true interest, in the subject.
Also, they employ Frank Bruni.
I’m probably preaching to the choir, but Jesus Christ, the sway this rag has over our politics is toxic. Unsubscribe.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Why, it’s almost like the New York Times is run by morons.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
Oh I remember the Times saying that readers would collectively act as a public editor or some such shit. Just like how free markets regulate themselves
JPL
Mike Rogers targeted the DNI release that didn’t even try to disguise the identity. The way it was released you could point the finger at …..if you understood that sort of thing. Another intel guy said he saw the release and could identify the subject also. As much as I hate the NYTImes, others including the White HOuse could tell who it was. if they had changed the formatting or something then I guess they could disguise it.
The problem with the NYTimes is that they said it out in the open.
kindness
Not one thin dime for the GD NY Times.
I used to read it. No more.
Betty Cracker
A thousand amens to all that! And Ken Vogel is getting pity-links from colleagues covering the Giuliani shit-show.
Imagine being Vogel and living with the fact that you missed a Watergate-level scoop about Trump/Giuliani’s lawless project to validate crackpot wingnut theories about Ukraine by subverting US foreign policy — all because you were too busy rooting through Joe Biden’s underpants drawer.
Good God.
Yutsano
Since you cited TPM: is it smart to perpetuate the fucking burn? WTF is wrong with you lot Josh et al???
JPL
@Betty Cracker: He could have uncovered the corruption and become the next Woodward, but no he has to become the asshole who tried to protect the president.
Betty Cracker
@JPL: I hope the shame and regret burn like the world’s worst case of acid reflux. Forever.
joel hanes
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
it’s almost like the New York Times is run by morons.
It’s even more as if the FTFNYT is owned by Republicans
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
Vogel probably thinks that Woodward and Bernstein were wrong to attack Nixon, so it probably hasn’t even occurred to him that he could have scooped other journalists with his information.
Major Major Major Major
Well, there’s the other 99% of their reporters, too…
Brachiator
From the Guardian.
They also want to rework the Statue of Liberty, to depict it kicking a refugee in the ass.
I guess the whistleblower stuff doesn’t prevent this vile administration from doing business as usual.
ETA. The Times needs to dump it’s executive editor and also probably a good chunk of it’s editorial staff.
germy
(Onion headline)
Josie
Harris is currently on Tweety’s show.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
dude’s got sources, so…
How do you think Sweet Paulie Blue-Eyes figure that future’s gonna be….? a post-Rupert future is also not far off
“You and me, Lachlan… we can have it all, and I’m smarter and better-mannered than trump….”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Josie: and Pelosi’s doing Morning Joseph tomorrow… who advises Dems on media appearances. There are half a dozen MSNBC hosts who would be less pompous and don’t spit when they talk
Another Scott
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
moronspeople who will paper over any lawbreaking and double-dealing by the GOP as long as it keeps liberal democrats from power.HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Not to be outdone, C Todd is upset that impeachment will force Susan Collins and Martha McSally to cast votes in support of Dump that will make them unelectable in the general election.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: dear god
not like before when he was /checks notes/ the second-ranking Constitutional officer in government
Jesus wept
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Is Lachlan really any better than Rupert?
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I keep hoping MSNBC will shit-can Tweety and give the 7 PM spot to Joy Reid.
trollhattan
@Josie:
Has he begun lecturing her about Dutch Reagan and Tip O’Neill?
dmsilev
@JPL: Considering what Bob Woodward turned into after Watergate, I’m sure becoming the next Woodward is exactly what someone like Vogel wants.
JPL
@Josie: How’d she do? She was my first pick but now appears to be the forgotten one.
cain
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I dont think I have ever watched Morning Joe.
MisterForkbeard
Since you cite TPM – TPM also makes a pretty decent case that exposing some knowledge about the whistleblower was defensible.
dmsilev
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: “Deeply furrowed brow of concern” isn’t a voting stance?
piratedan
@Betty Cracker: imho Vogel is part of the problem, instead of letting the facts dictate the story he went in with a narrative and tried to collage a bunch of shit together inside a very untidy frame.
fuck him, he’s just like waaaay too many NYT scribes for me to think he’s “just made the wrong decision”
Josie
@trollhattan: Lol. Nope. She actually kept him on topic and got her points across. She is not easily intimidated.
ETA: JPL – She has always appealed to me. I keep hoping she will find a way to break out.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: from what I read: meaner, more ideological and in the way of these things, probably not as smart. Which doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll run the whole thing into the ground.
Another Scott
@Brachiator: I was talking to a German colleague a couple of days ago. He said the unemployment rate in Germany was effectively zero. I said, “Even after the 1M refugees that Mutti let in?” He said, “Yes.”
The idea that the US cannot absorb and benefit from tens or hundreds of thousands (or more) refugees is racist nonsense. And there’s even contemporaneous evidence that it’s wrong.
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
I canceled my NYT subscription about a half-year ago (and told them why – people, don’t forget to do that part, so they know they suck and why they suck)
And then we moved, and I was weak, and I signed up for Sunday delivery – $1/week for the first four weeks, then oh I don’t know, a couple bucks a week, and if I let it roll it’ll eventually be something like $5/week.
But I’ll…I’ll BE STRONG and cancel tomorrow. Wait…I’ll cancel on Monday, after one more Sunday edition! =)
But I’ll cancel. And I’ll be sure to tell them why they suck, AGAIN
JPL
@dmsilev: Well no one would believe he’d be Bernstein, cuz he is too corrupt for that role .
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
The NYT needs to dump it’s publisher, or they’ll just replace any editorial staff who leave with someone worse.
germy
@Roger Moore:
Yes, he’s the root of the problem. The rotting head of the fish. (to mix my metaphors)
zhena gogolia
I cancelled today. I’m ambivalent about it, but this really upset me.
Along with the last two day’s headlines: “Fighter Ready to Defend His Title,” and “Voters Go to Their Corners.” As if it’s a boxing match and not a fight for the survival of the nation.
I have WaPo digital and about 1000 twitter feeds I look at, but it’s going to be quite a transition after 40+ years.
Aleta
This is a recording of what Trump said to staff of the U.S. mission to the UN yesterday, about killing for ‘treason’ that is, for w.b.ing
https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/status/1177321805050195971
The treasonous one can’t seem to stop himself from talking about it by accusing his opponent.
delk
wait time to unsubscribe to NYT
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Kinda hard for a paper to dump its owner. But if they begin losing buckets of money again, maybe someone will offer to buy them out.
Mnemosyne
@Josie:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Meh. Both of those shows have fairly high ratings, so I can’t entirely blame them. ?♀️
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Vogel was a hack from Politico who was hired along with fellow Politico propagandists Glenn Thrush, Jonathan Martin and Axis Sally Haberman to wreak havoc on Clinton and Dems.
germy
@Jeffro:
You sound like you’re jonesing pretty bad. Watch out, or you’ll be peeking over parakeets’ shoulders to read their birdcage lining!
Keith P.
@Aleta: And I’ll add that I’m pretty sure that Trump was ready to hand Bill Browder over to Russia and Fethullah Gülen over to Turkey, probably for rights to future Trump Towers Moscow and Ankara.
chris
Looks like y’all had a busy day. So naturally the site is not working. Maybe I can catch up a little bit on my phone where it works well.
**Shuffles off, muttering**
bluehill
After reading the WB report, I can see why Rudy’s throwing a fit. It’s clear what he was trying to do for Trump and seems like that puts him some legal jeopardy, IANAL and all that.
The report also makes me wonder what would’ve happened if Poroshenko won the election and kept Lutsenko. I have no idea of the politics in Ukraine, but it seems like these guys are helping Putin even though they appear outwardly anti-Russian.
Also, curious to see how Putin decides to play this. Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s got kompromat to use as leverage on a number of people.
[Individual 1] mistermix
@MisterForkbeard:
Yes, I read that. As I said, I think it is a tough call but I view it in the context of the overall Times body of work. Maybe at least think about it a bit before hitting “post”. And certainly look at the threats Trump is making and take those into account.
Sab
@Betty Cracker: I have to disagree with you on this. Keep Joy Reid in the weekend spot, where she has time to prepare, and can get guests who have actual day jobs other than political consulting.
joel hanes
@MisterForkbeard:
TPM (Josh himself) once made a pretty good case that there must be WMDs in Iraq, or else the US government would not be acting as if there were. Josh was pro-invasion for a while. I have not forgotten.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
WaPo has much better headlines (photo)
CaseyL
The NYT has been coasting off its Pentagon Papers laurels way too long. Has it actually done any good work since then?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m having trouble remembering who’s who, but this is Rudi posting a text message from Kurt Volkr, a high-ranking State official, “Special Envoy to Ukraine”
I guess Rudi wants to be subpoenaed?
joel hanes
@Josie:
I keep hoping [Kamala Harris] will find a way to break out.
I think I want her for Attorney General.
Buddha-judge or Beto for VP, to clearly say what needs to be said.
Emerald
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Ha. I wondered what I missed by muting his show today. How will he trash the Democrats today, I mused.
Emerald
@JPL: She’s still my pick, and I expect her to do very well indeed. It’s way, way early yet and a few folks might have peaked too soon.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’d say Jesus is sobbing hysterically, but that’s just me.
Turgidson
@Betty Cracker:
Not sure Vogel has the self-awareness to realize he made a mistake at all, much less how idiotic it was. He is hopelessly drunk on the toxic belief that bothsiderism is forever journalism’s North Star.
Aleta
Email with subject line Cancel My Subscription
can be sent to to [email protected]
Rp
@Turgidson: are you sure it’s not simply “Democrats are bad”?
Kraux Pas
Keep following that and they’ll soon find themselves in a frozen wilderness.
Parfigliano
@Betty Cracker: Fuck him
Captain C
The FTFNYTimes has become what Soviet-era Pravda would be if Pravda was trying to emulate the Times.
Kay
Sides only with consumers. At the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
zhena gogolia
@CaseyL:
They just did the magnificent 1619 Project. I thought I was going to stick with them on the strength of that. But today tore it.
Jeffro
@germy: LOL was just taking a cue from my melodramatic kids ;)
Btw folks Tweety & Co are just now discussing the effects of the GOP having a Republican Noise Machine (h/t David Brock) to bolster trumpov and keep him in the game (as opposed to obviously having to resign like Nixon). They didn’t note the book – but I am, it’s a really good primer.
Well, primer for non-BJers, I guess. We already KNOW all this shit.
Kay
I’m wondering how the “swing voter” thing works, specifically. Do they have a list of these people to call? Where do they get it?
Jeffro
@Kay: They do fear they won’t get a fair hearing – even legit banksters and credit union folks fear this. The competition in that sector is INTENSE, and over-reacting to Warren is a way for them to vent about this.
Warren would do herself a ton of good to give a speech directed at the whole financial sector, not to cave or compromise, but just to say “You know you can help here. I know most of you aren’t out to basically rob people. So let’s work together to expose the folks who give the whole industry a bad name.”
Shorter version: “Be part of the solution”. She’s so sharp, at this point it would surprise me if she didn’t give that speech sometime in the next few months.
Mike J
@Emerald: Harris is going to win S Carolina. the nomination, and then the White House.
Jeffro
@Kay: I think all they do is wander around at a trumpov rally, ask people their party identification, and then drill down whenever someone (with a MAGA hat and tea party flag) says “yuh, I’m an independent!”
SURE you are, trumpista! You’re clearly “on the fence”
zhena gogolia
@Mike J:
Wow, I want some of what you’re smoking.
She’s my candidate, but I’ve been giving up hope.
Adam
I want to resubscribe to the Times just so I can cancel it again.
Kay
@Jeffro:
It’s just interesting because we have a local paper and they’ll call, like, someone they know who is a county chair or something and that person would give them names to call for a comment. They have called me. But that would be admitted Republicans and Democrats. There’s no “swing voter” list. By definition, almost.
Because it almost seems like a set up, right? Like the guy who went to 23 Trump rallies someone engineered his contact number on a list.
Emerald
@Mike J: Emerald does some extra sparkling.
Mary G
This got ratio’d:
I actually think the recycled six “swing voters” story is a bigger shame. The WB was gonna get outed by the administration anyway, but these so called undecided voters are a straight up lie.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
#CancelNYT is treading on twitter
chris
Hmph. Reboot and switch to Firefox from Chrome. Site looks funny but at least it scrolls.
Jeffro
@Kay: I’m just shocked (although I know at this point that I shouldn’t be) that even when enlisting “swing voters” for their quotes…they keep going back to the exact same few people (in a country of 330M!) and then publishing it all, as if there was no way for even an amateur to pipe up and say “Um…it looks like you keep going back to the exact same few people”
Much less the same few OBVIOUSLY NOT ‘SWING’ VOTERS!
I mean if you’re that corrupt and lazy, just flat-out make it up. Write fiction. Change the names and hometowns, make it look like there’s all kinds of support across this mighty heartland for trumpov and his agenda. Going back to the ‘well’ of these same low-info trumpistas for article after article…in one of the country’s blessed “papers of record”, for pete’s sake…just makes these clowns look even dumber than I could have imagined.
Aleta
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: what?!?
Leto
@Kay: I’m glad she has those shit birds scared. Good.
@Jeffro:
This has been an NCO mantra in the military since forever for when the junior troops just want to bitch bitch bitch about X. They’ve had since Clinton, at least, to be a part of the solution, but instead their voracious greed has gotten the better of them every damn time. Fuck. Them. Every time we give them an inch, they take a thousand miles and then whine about how they couldn’t have three thousand. Fuck. Them.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Mary G: Jill works for the Vichy Times. She doesn’t disclose her conflict of interest.
Mary G
Somebody’s marketing department is on the ball:
Kay
@Mary G:
Are they supposedly just meeting these people on the street? I don’t even get this whole genre of reporting. They’re in all different states, right? So they have to be calling them? Who tells them how or where to find them? There’s no master list of undeclared voters.
That one guy is almost the Official Swing Voter at this point.
Mnemosyne
@Kay:
I have a feeling there aren’t too many non-banksters who think it’s a great idea to loosen regulations on payday loans. Just spitballing here.
The one time my late father-in-law tore his beloved and rather spoiled daughter a new one was when he found out she’d taken out a payday loan. She never did that again.
Mike J
@zhena gogolia: The last two winners of NH lost SC. The winner of SC got the nomination. Harris is going to win SC.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Leto
For anyone with a .gov or .mil email address, you can get a free digital subscription to the WaPo. It’s in their subscribe section.
JaySinWA
OMG I just realized that Rudy Giuliani is Q!
Gin & Tonic
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Kurt Volker is currently the US’s Chargé d’affaires in Ukraine. There is no Ambassador, so he’s the highest-ranking State Dept official there.
Kay
@Mnemosyne:
There’s so many payday varieties now- title loans are a big area. Disaster.
Roger Moore
@Mary G:
What does that have to do with the New York Times? Just because they have the name doesn’t mean they have the chops to back it up anymore. Someone who cares about hard hitting journalism would do much better to subscribe to the Washington Post, or their local daily, or to donate to Pro Publica.
Amir Khalid
@Mary G:
It seems Filipovic is unwilling to admit why people are unsubscribing from The NYT: its biases are all too apparent, the journalism is too often unserious, and doesn’t hit as hard as it could or should,
Aleta
Because of the past, and b/c of some of VogeI’s past articles, and now this ‘let readers judge for themselves’ (when it’s questionable whether the details they gave actually matter for that), I feel suspicious about their lack of immunity to Giuliani’s communications with them. Maybe even about this. Perhaps their calculation is ‘it’s better to keep him as our source.’
Mary G
@Kay: Honestly, it’s like they’re afraid to get out of their cars anywhere but New York, so they go back to wherever the rube cooties didn’t rub off on them, or something. Republicans aren’t the only people who live in bubbles.
The editorial culture at the NYT is just toxic. When they let Dean Baquet try to explain why they’re the way they are when they used that “Trump Urges Unity Over Racism” headline, he let some other people into a staff meeting where it sounded like some of the younger and newer reporters were trying to get their concerns to sink in, and he just flat-out ignored their questions and spouted his usual “we are never wrong, the uneducated rubes and deranged liberals just are too stupid to understand” bullshit. It’s the patronizing and condescending tone that gets to me.
Jeffro
@Leto: I agree with “fuck them”. My bigger-picture reason is that by making the public offer to be a part of the solution, she helps shift the terms of how they, the public at large, and our blessed snooze media view the problem. “Hey, I tried…many Wall Street CEOs know that I’m not out to get them as long as they and their companies are providing services in a transparent way, at a fair price” etc etc etc.
It takes away their argument. And perhaps not a few of them go, “well…let’s make sure we have our act together here…”
They have a ton of money but next to no votes. They know this. So it might well keep them from throwing crazy amount of money to trumpov, Pence, whomever. They need to realize that there are worse things than having Liz Warren as president.
Doug R
@joel hanes:
So did I. But then again, that’s what happens when you trust the New York Times.
MomSense
The New York Times is garbage.
I wish some investigative reporter would look into their finances, investors, tenants, and real estate transactions.
Also worth pointing out that they owned property in Times Square that went up in value significantly thanks to Rudy’s mayoral shenanigans “cleaning up Times Square”.
Mary G
MAKE IT SO:
MisterForkbeard
@Mike J: Harris is still my favorite, but I’ve always thought she was a bit of a longshot.
Honestly, her best opportunity was back in July after the first debate. She still has a chance, but it’s going to be difficult to pull ahead. Here’s hoping she does, and in the meantime I’m just happy that the party is sidelining Sanders somewhat and ignoring Tulsi.
piratedan
@Amir Khalid: or if they could even admit that there was absolutely NOTHING to the HRC e-mail scandal other than the rumor of a possibility that a scandal might exist because someone was looking into it again even though no one had found anything of note that would have jeopardized national security or revealed US positions or was even a breach of protocol. All based on the fact that someone committed a crime against them by illegally accessing their servers.
When they can come clean about THAT, then maybe I can give them an iota of slack, until then, they can essentially piss off about the unfairness of the public calling them to task for the enormous amount of shitty reporting that they do with making up a story and then finding shit to attempt to corroborate it.
Sebastian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I cannot wait for the “what did you know and when did you know it” chapter of this whole shitshow. Grannystarver will get his, just you wait.
sukabi
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/new-york-times-blasted-for-outing-whistleblower-and-putting-his-life-in-danger/
If this whistleblower or their family gets hurt / killed would it be reasonable / possible for the 2 assholes above to be charged for contracting a murder / attempted murder?
Quinerly
Anyone post about Boris Johnson’s sister?
“Boris Johnson’s sister believes the Prime Minister may be losing control of his behavior because he’s coming “under intense pressure from the people who have invested billions in shorting the £ & British economy for a no deal Brexit”.
https://mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1177214043687399424
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
Its aim could use some work, too. I don’t care how hard hitting you are if you focus your energy on undeserving targets.
sukabi
@Quinerly: In bed with the Russian mob?
Fair Economist
@Jeffro: Warren used to give speeches just like that at financial conventions. She was a highly desired speaker even among those who didn’t like her pro-consumer take. She has always said there’s plenty of money to be made with honest nonpredatory lending.
Quinerly
Is Josh Marshall the only one calling the whistleblower “Deep Whistle?” I was checking out his Twitter feed. I like it. Hope it sticks.
piratedan
@Fair Economist: essentially its the same old idea that if you go into business and do the things that you are supposed to do, you got nothing to fear from Warren, seems pretty simple to me, make a profit but don’t fuck over your customers or the government. Doesn’t seem like such a high bar to clear.
Immanentize
karensky
@Betty Cracker: awesome, Ms Cracker
Amir Khalid
@Jeffro:
Warren is a leading expert on the consumer finance industry. Is this really something she could honestly say?
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
Politicians are expected to tell the occasional comforting lie.
Fair Economist
@Quinerly: No Deal Brexit was always about vultures making money from the disaster it would bring to Britain. It makes no policy sense whatsoever, even on the rosiest assumptions. If BoJo’s sister is talking about it maybe it will get the attention it deserves.
Jeffro
@Fair Economist: Yup. And – just my 2 cents – she would do well to ramp up on those efforts. These are the people who are in a panic now that they see the trumpov sugar high is about to end.
(Even if most of them will make more money in a rising-rate environment!). =)
@Amir Khalid: yes, see above. She’s capable of some nuance in this, and that could well make a difference.
Doug R
@Jeffro:
If only another presidential candidate did that-speak to the financial sector. Wouldn’t be any trouble with the lefties, would there?
smintheus
@Quinerly: Seemed obvious the disaster capitalists had to be involved in Brexit. A few months ago Boris Johnson’s brother Max described why he backs Brexit: sterling’s weakness is an opportunity to snap up assets in the UK.
https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/3022223/boris-johnsons-brother-hong-kong-backs-his-brexit-strategy
Doug R
@Jeffro:
One has a portrait of Robert E Lee on his wall.
One was a delegate to the Republican convention.
One has been to 23 trump rallies.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl:
Jesus does not weep.
he pukes
chris
@smintheus: Don’t forget the new EU laws on tax avoidance and evasion. Orcs like Rees-Mogg are particularly exercised about their right to hide their money.
Immanentize
@Kay:
“Swing” voter actually, for the Times, refers to the individual’s sexual partner preferences.
Jeffro
@Doug R: not tracking…?
Jeffro
@Doug R: exactly
zhena gogolia
@Jeffro:
Hillary.
James E Powell
@joel hanes:
Josh Marshall tends to be Conventional Wisdom Memo or Beltway Consensus Memo.
smintheus
@Fair Economist: Rachel Johnson has always been opposed to Brexit.
schrodingers_cat
While we are on the awfulness of Garbage Times let’s not forget Roger Cohen’s unseemly ass-kissing of despotic Modi.
Leto
@Immanentize: You’ve got 45 more minutes before you can make that joke; there are children here, for goodness sake!!! :P
Miss Bianca
@Jeffro: It reminds me of the Onion’s “wo/man on the street” bits. The same photos recycled with different names and descriptors.
TS (the original)
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And said Joseph will turn this into both sides the minute the Speaker opens her mouth. We will hear about Bill Clinton’s impeachment for most of the show
James E Powell
@Kay:
And how would anyone know if a voter was really a swing voter? Ask them?
smintheus
@chris: Good point.
HumboldtBlue
It will probably mean little in the end but the comments under the NYT editorial statement on the whistleblower are strongly opposed and highly critical, echoing many of the thoughts expressed here.
Immanentize
@Leto:
Sadly for discussion purposes, there are always a bunch of children here…. Same problem in my law school classrooms.
Jinchi
Slightly off topic, but,
As though he ever lifted a finger against Trump when he had the power to do something, himself.
What a weasel.
lollipopguild
@James E Powell: They are “independent” voters who vote the GOP 100% of the time.
James E Powell
@HumboldtBlue:
It will mean that Baquet and others at the NYT will lash out and disparage the people who are strongly opposed and highly critical.
jl
@lollipopguild: Most swing and “independent” voters are hidden partisans, or the “undecided” (aka, determinedly and devotedly low info) voters. I’e met a few informed and engaged true independent voters, so, they do exist. And IIRC, some of them have a tendency to throw away their votes on goofy center centrist radical moderate independent candidates, that is, they are potential Schultz voters, if he were still running.
The Undecided Voters – SNL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAG37Kw1-aw
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: Those voters are ripe for the Baud!2020! message.
sdhays
@James E Powell: That’s not true at all.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and…. buried it. Presumably including at least some of those career professionals that the MSNBC former-federal-prosecutors have been assuring me would resign before they went along with any trumping schemes.
and how does the CIA General Counsel know about this and Gina Haspel does not? and the then DNI Dan Coates? And Susan Gordon?
Ronno2018
I mean really the Guardian should buy the NYT. I just don’t get why they just don’t go fully lefty 24/7? Huge subscriber growth on that path. Just be an honest progressive fox news. it would be entirely more profitable than than the mealy path they are on.
Procopius
@CaseyL: Judith Miller.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
are all trump’s lawyers booze-addled?
and, not that this is on Suebsaeng, but doesn’t the Bush Family consigliere (who must be closing in on 100) spell it “Bakker”?
Procopius
@Jeffro:
These are the people who complained that Obama didn’t praise them enough after he stood between them and the pitchforks. Of course they’re afraid of Senator Professor Warren.
SFAW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
No, Jim (of “Jim and Tammy Faye”) spells it that way. The long-time fascist and Bush consigliere spells it with one “k.”
If I were a lawyer, and Shitgibbon were my client, it would certainly drive ME to drink.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@SFAW: I almost feel as if I have to apologize to old man Baker (according to legend the only non-Bush Barbara considered more than a servant), that other one being so multifariously odious
I remember seeing them all those years ago, before things blew up. If you had told me then that Tammy Faye was the decent one…
SFAW
@joel hanes:
And Cole and Charles Johnson were both Rethugs for a significant period of their adulthood. I think Josh has acquitted himself fairly well since that time.
SFAW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Baker was certainly very smart, and well-connected. But I think (if my memory is correct — always an iffy proposition) that he had a fairly significant hand in the 2000 fuckery.
ETA: Baker is 89, by the way. [According to Wikipedia.]
dww444
@Procopius: Jim Cramer of CNBC is forever whining about the possibility of a Pres Warren. Unnerves him to the max;makes me giggle.
Sebastian
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Holy shit.
J R in WV
@Jeffro:
Maybe I’ve fixed this for you?…
joel hanes
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
doesn’t the Bush Family consigliere (who must be closing in on 100) spell it “Bakker”
That’s the televangelist, “Jim”, formerly married to Tammy Faye.
The Bush Baker is James Addison Baker III.