And so it begins:
The Pompeo subpoena demands documents by Oct. 4 >>> pic.twitter.com/lpCCDhBMa5
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) September 27, 2019
The demand letter threatens Pompeo with an obstruction charge if he doesn’t produce the documents by October 4, which is…a week from today. Also, here’s an interesting deposition list:
And the committee has set a schedule of 5 depositions:
October 2: Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch
October 3: Ambassador Kurt Volker
October 7: Deputy Assistant Secretary George Kent
October 8: Counselor T. Ulrich Brechbuhl
October 10: Ambassador Gordon Sondland— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) September 27, 2019
My guess is Ambassador Yovanovitch will have a particularly interesting tale to tell.
“Alexa, order ALL the popcorn!”
dmsilev
Huh, so I guess all of those people wailing that Congress shouldn’t go on recess and thereby slow down the inquiries….
…didn’t know WTF they were talking about.
Shocking.
laura
And BOOM goes the weasels!
I’m guessing these folks are going to need to keep a fresh pair of pants on hand and a defense attorney on speed dial.
jonas
Eventually they’re going to have to haul Giuliani’s ass in and put him in the hot seat *that’s* going to be lit.
Leto
Boom goes the orange dynamite! I guess this is the first part of the regularly scheduled Friday news drop.
Edit: dang it! Too slow, @laura: got there first. Bravo!
MattF
There’s always the option of replying with schoolyard taunts– Since they’re all ‘liddle’, their testimony is irrelevant.
Yarrow
Tick tock, motherfuckers!
Pompeo is very treasony. This subpoena is just the beginning. At that Trump press conference the other day you could see he knows he’s in trouble.
zhena gogolia
@jonas:
I want Barry Berke there for that.
StringOnAStick
Weather is cooling down; investigations are heating up.
Emerald
Good thing they started months ago and got those cases into to the courts to compel witnesses and documents. Those rulings ought to come down fairly soon. (Lawyers, correct me if I’m wrong.)
Still, it’s going to look really bad if the State Dept refuses to comply. Popcorn time!
kindness
My expectation (hope) is that Pompeo blows off the subpoena and get’s jailed for contempt. Karma.
Cermet
I wouldn’t get all that excited – executive privilege will be their answer to most questions and then off to the inferior court to get the rightwing criminals to rule that the orange fart cloud is above all law: both secular or divine.
StringOnAStick
I will admit to enjoying the squirming going on now, and expect the squirming to increase significantly. We all know Pompeo is going to refuse to comply, so let’s get all the R’s on record supporting his refusal, and then when even more shit is revealed thanks to non-tRump people testifying let’s see how far those R’s are going to be willing to walk the plank for Cheeto Jesus. Every bit of it will make excellent campaign ads.
Mike in DC
Time to dust off the procedures for inherent contempt, and figure out how to get the Capitol police to help enforce it.
rikyrah
@zhena gogolia:
Yes yes yes. No more 5 minute nonsense. The Dems need to give their time over to permanent staff lawyers.
Ruckus
And so it begins.
Another major saga in the ups and downs of a democracy. At least we have a chance to make it better. And at least this one has a valid reason to exist, unlike the last time we fired up this train.
A uniform answer to all the right wingers pissing and moaning about this might be nice. Maybe a contest for the best answer. I’ll start.
You are complaining about this impeachment after the last one? Over a blow job? Between consenting adults?
cain
@Mike in DC: Time to dust off the procedures for inherent contempt, and figure out how to get the Capitol police to help enforce it.
cain
@kindness:
Trump gets them out of jail by using his pardon powers? I wonder how that would word? Is Trump’s pardon power work on this kind of thing?
HeleninEire
I used to hate this timeline. Beginning to love it. Marie Yovanovich? Oh yes.
patrick II
From Wiki
About what I expected, a professional who wouldn’t go along with the grift. Not surprised she was recalled.
Jay
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Please please please
Will Pompeo be performing for The Bloatiance of One, or the voters of Kansas?
ETA: I wonder if staff are quietly negotiating with Dan Coates, Sue Gordon (I think that’s the name o Coates’ number 2?) and Whosits with the moustaches. ETA, A: Bolton, of course. Brain fart. Senior moment. Call it what you will.
Jeffro
Hey GOP, y’all could spare the country weeks upon weeks of these hearings (to say nothing of tweet-rants and tweet-threats by Orangemandias) if just one of you weasels would stand up and say, “It’s obvious this president* and his ‘team’ are guilty of betraying the nation, and they should resign before they are impeached, convicted, removed, and jailed.”
But you won’t. So oh well.
JaySinWA
@Ruckus: While that will piss them off they will be ready with their ‘killer’ response:
“it was the perjury | lying under oath, not the sex” cause the sex just made it sizzle.
In other words, not quite the STFU you were looking for.
frosty
@Yarrow:
“Tick tock, motherfuckers”
Welcome back, my favorite B-J phrase!! I’ve been telling my friends that this week feels like the summer of ‘73 when the wheels started coming off the cart during Watergate.
sukabi
@jonas: they may just refer him for charges–after Barr’s impeached.
Jay
Congratulations to foreign asset NRA on finally having a scandal that doesn’t involve a bunch of dead schoolchildren. – OhNoSheTwint
catclub
I remember all the way back to yesterday, when Adam Silverman was saying the real crime is the coverup via upclassification.
That clearly has no legs, they are not seeming to pursue that at all. I think that was the crime that the original whistleblower complaint was about.
Coverup via upclassify.
catclub
@Jay:
yet.
jl
I like the initial list and the order of witnesses. Seems like they are starting with most credible witnesses first and working down the list from there. Though from what I’ve read about Volker last evening, there may be quit a big drop off from the first the second. But, House has to take what it can get in terms of credibility and slim pickings on that point. Volker maybe be like Maguire, hard to tell whether he is a flunky who saw suddenly saw the big mess coming decided that he didn’t want to go to jail, or naive guy in over his head between a rock and a hard place. I thought Volker was a career State Department person, but turns out (if news stories I’ve are correct) he is some lobbyist doing volunteer work for US on Ukraine, since Trumpsters haven’t been able to replace Yovanovitch. If he is the second most credible person, there might be some truth in what he says. We’ll see.
Seems odd that sophisticated secret agent man like Giuliani would pin his hopes on claim he was officially authorized by US State Department to go on secret agent missions (which have been reported with strong hints about what the dirt was about for at least six months) would mostly relay on an unpaid volunteer fixer for Trump. Or maybe sad.
I don’t have time or stomach to read up on the details, so sure some kind commenter will set me straight if I have misinformed myself.
trollhattan
@StringOnAStick:
Getting cold? Rub a few Republicans together [ewww] and build a bonfire. Bonfire of the inanities.
HeleninEire
@catclub: Yeah. But I totally understand and support Adam’s position. He is both an Academic and a military guy. Rules count. They are critical. I’ved worked for Academics for 35 years. Precision is important.
jl
@catclub: Seems to me that in this case, judging by the fake transcript that was released on the Zelensky call, in this case the crime was as bad as the cover-up. And if a number of stand-along all by themselves crimes were committed in the course of the cover-up, then those are crimes too. In other words, if a person has to commit another murder to cover up a murder, then the saying ‘the cover-up is worse than the crime’ doesn’t apply in the usual sense.
And we don’t know what the issues were in the other calls that were most probably hidden in the tippy top super terrifically secret, the best, stand alone code word only computer system. (I’m having ‘server’ fatigue so will try to stay away from the word for a while).
Ruckus
@StringOnAStick:
I’m more worried about the actual legal ramifications for this than any campaign issues.
The president of our country is corrupt, delusional and an idiot and quite possibly could get us into a war thinking that might save him. It’s quite possible that this will be the push into a major recession or even a depression.
I’m worried about the last 2 1/2 years and the next year and a half. I worried about our financial solubility both as a country and personally, as I’m almost too old to have to work to eat and maintain a place to live, and I’ve been there before, within the last decade. Just a personal aside, I’m not sure I can recover if it happens again. And I’m nowhere near alone in this, most everyone would be in a similar place.
It’s why I’ve been commenting on the timing aspect and the viability of impeachment for probably over a year. This is far more important than anything most of us have ever been involved in and hopefully ever will be again. This is our safety switch of our government. This is all that is left between us and civil war. And that worked out so well last time. Just as it always doesn’t.
We have to hope that our elected representatives understand this and do their jobs. This is not just important, it’s vital.
trollhattan
@catclub:
“Upclassify” sounds like me suit-shopping. They never fit right.
MattF
@catclub: The coverup via upclassifying is certainly illegal— but I think the impeachable offense is using a threat of halting military aid to force a foreign power to make up lies about a political opponent. Abuse of power.
Ruckus
@JaySinWA:
I know and that was as much bullshit as every other part of the entire what, 60 million spent to find nothing.
And why I said I would start, not that that was the best answer.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MattF: My take is the phone call– trump’s own version of it– exposes impeachable abuse of power. The upclassification was the cover-up committed by people around trump. I doubt he understood what those people were doing, even if, by this point, they bothered to tell him.
lamh36
This split screen is EVERYTHING!
Adam L Silverman
@zhena gogolia: Even better, Daniel Goldman who, as an associate US Attorney, prosecuted the Russian mob and the Genoveses.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/05/house-intelligence-daniel-goldman-1204140
jl
@MattF: Exactly. Actually I think there were two or three crimes in the Zelensky call, asking for foreign assistance with election, and extortion, and probably misuse or public funds. Heck, I heard that straight from a clip from Fox News: Judge Napolitano on Shep Smith show, if Smith is still really Fox News, I read he is about to get fired for being a news reporter and disagreeing with the opinion hack Carlson. From reliable evidence so far, crime was at least as bad as any cover-up. And as I noted above, the cover-up itself seems to have required a lot of additional serious criming.
feebog
The train is leaving the station. Republicans better figure out if they want to be on it or under it.
Ruckus
@frosty:
Best three words you hope you never have to use together.
Could be slightly improved but really isn’t necessary.
Tick Fucking Tock, Motherfuckers.
A bit more forceful, but less elegant.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
huh….
I’ve always said that if trump did stroke out on the crapper, the only person happier than Melania would be Mitch McConnell. “President Pence”, all the judges, none of the drama. But this is the kind of thing that could have trump calling Bannon at two o’clock in the morning asking “What did you say that time about Mitch’s military discharge?”
lamh36
So in a 24hr day, about 2 hours on Fox is spend NOT defending Chump
Must be exhausting
jl
@jonas: If the witnesses are called in order of the credibility, we’ll have to wait a long time for Giuliani to show up.
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: Excuse me?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and Rudi’s usual barr tender says, “meh, he spill his drinks, farts a lot and tips like shit”
Adam L Silverman
@HeleninEire: I’m not an academic. No need to get insulting.
PJ
I’m not linking to the article because I don’t want to give Politico any clicks, but the founder, John Harris, just came out with a piece bemoaning the “lack of solemnity” in the current impeachment process, and characterizing it as just another show in the “ideological and cultural wars”:
Because folks, the real story here is not, as one might think from everything that has been reported over the last week and last three years, the President attempting to extort a foreign leader to help him win the next election, and misclassifying documents so that his criminal behavior would be hidden, nor is it the obstruction of justice, emoluments, participation in the undermining of the 2016 election by the Russians, and general lawlessness and fraudulence of his behavior before and during his presidency, but rather whether the Speaker of the House has managed to make the impeachment of a conman and buffoon a “solemn” affair. Because why have an impeachment at all, if the Speaker of the House is not wearing a veil when she announces the inquiry?
This kind of hypocrisy and fatuousness from the media (Politico is one of the main culprits in treating politics as a sport or show) is one more reason why we can’t have nice things, like a functioning democracy.
Here is a tweet from Jon Favreau about it: https://twitter.com/jonfavs/status/1177603903082250241.
jl
@lamh36: Fox News management is siding with their opinion hacks over the very few people there who have some (IMHO, moderate to slim) claim to being honest reporters.
hotshoe
I could not keep up with the news (or the BJ columns and comments!) yesterday … and today seems to be worse … or is that better? Better if one of the dirtiest of the ReThugs suddenly has a come-to-Jesus moment and tells all. Better if they carry the proof out from that special secret server where they’ve hidden it, and deliver it to open hearings in the House.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@catclub: I hope they are pursuing those documents as well, but we likely won’t hear a lot about the process. The thing is, even though we know all that stuff has no legal reason to be on the super-sekrit server that’s down in the sekrit sub-basement surrounded by the piranhas with the laser beams, it is on that server. And stuff put on classified computers is damned hard to get approval to get off again.
I’m not sure who is even going to sign off on the orders. Does it have to go through Maguire? We know he’s real open about Trump-related documents.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: Excuse me?
Ruckus
@catclub:
This is just really getting started, you don’t know where it will lead or even exactly the road map they will take to get to the end. It’s possible that even the people in the house don’t know everything yet. Impeachment is the process, not the end of a process.
lamh36
So Chump turns to the NRA…of course…THIS WILL NOT END WELL!
PJ
@Cermet: Trump can’t claim executive privilege for shit that Giuliani or Barr did.
Yarrow
@Ruckus: I don’t think comparing this impeachment inquiry to Clinton’s is a good idea. The issues involved in this one are so big and are so fundamental to our country that it’s of incredible importance. Comparing it to Clinton’s impeachment diminishes it in any conversation. It turns the whole thing into yet another “both sides” and won’t help clarify the importance of this impeachment inquiry.
About the only useful portion of the Clinton impeachment inquiry is current Representatives and Senators who were also in office during the Clinton one and who said things on video that can be thrown back in their faces today. Lindsey Graham has some video along those lines. Using that video to highlight their hypocrisy and how morally bankrupt they are is where it’s most useful.
zhena gogolia
@PJ:
Nauseating!
lamh36
Jay
Jim, Foolish Literalist
to be fair, he does have another angry and vindictive and I suspect very knowledgable almost-ex-wife to pay off
randy khan
@cain:
That won’t work. Contempt of this kind is intended to, ah, encourage witnesses to testify, and is not considered a punishment for a crime, so there’s nothing to pardon. Sort of similarly, the President can’t issue a pardon that says someone isn’t liable in a lawsuit. again because it’s not a crime.
Now with this guy, I could imagine him ordering the U.S. Marshalls to release people if they were held in federal custody. I’m not sure what would happen if the Sergeant at Arms contracted with the D.C. government, though.
catclub
@PJ:
Is it a black veil like they wear before saying “… and may God have mercy on your soul?”
Mary G
@Yarrow: @frosty: @Ruckus: Oh yeah, I love that phrase.
Omnes Omnibus
@cain: Won’t work.
lamh36
StringOnAStick
@Ruckus: I definitely see your point and I agree with it. I have far too many friends who are 1 to 2 paychecks from being in deep trouble with their level of debt and a recession will hurt far too many who don’t deserve it. But we are out of options here. We could leave him in office in the hopes the economy keeps tottering along and not investigate him, but that ship sailed yesterday. The start of impeachment is no longer optional. All of this, from his “election” (yeah, right) to all his crazed policies and trade wars and now impeachment investigations are things that have been destabilizing the economy. I strongly suspect that letting his administration continue without investigation means such a destruction of what the US is that the economy would fail over that. If we don’t apply the rule of law then the dollar could easily lose its reserve currency status, and that means falling to second world status; what happened to the middle class in Argentina over their economy and currency crashing would be the correct model to apply here.
Adam was right, the only way out of this is through, and impeachment is part of that path.
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: @HeleninEire: @jl: I think my point was missed. I’m not trying to diminish the problem with the President trying to get the Ukrainian president to go after Biden for him. That’s big and it’s important. But it is simply the foot in the door to what was going on with the President’s communications with foreign leaders. If it wasn’t, then Putin’s spokesman wouldn’t have issued his veiled threat this morning. Part of the reason why the call between the President and President Zelenskyy is a problem is because they tried to hide what was said on the call, which creates a counterintelligence problem as Zelenskyy and his people and whoever is collecting Signals Intelligence on both our president and Zelenskyy, such as Putin, know what was said and agreed to and offered in the call, but not a number of senior US national security officials. This gives others leverage over the President. That they’ve been doing this consistently since early 2017, just makes the problem that much worse. Putin, Bibi, Muhammad bin Salman, Duterte, Erdogan, Orban, Erdogan, Modi, Kim, Xi, etc all know what they’ve told the President, what the President told them, what he offered to do for them, what they offered to do for him, what he accepted, and what they accepted. And anyone collecting SIGINT on those calls knows it as well. But senior US national security professionals that need to know this information to protect US interests do not. And neither do the rest of us. And while that may not sound as exciting as the President tried to knuckle Zelenskyy, the President trying to knuckle Zelenskyy is simply the window into this much larger, very dangerous situation the President and the enablers he’s surrounded himself with have created for the US.
lamh36
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Ruckus: (Humming) “Ce sont les mots que vont tres bien ensemble, tres bien ensemble…”
zhena gogolia
@lamh36:
lol
New Deal democrat
@kindness:
Inherent contempt is not criminal contempt. Rather, it is designed to coerce compliance. The President can only pardon *crimes.*
So, when he waves his magic “pardon” wand, it will have no effect.
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Senate is required to hold the trial. McConnell, however, controls how that trial is conducted. He is supposed to negotiate the process with the Minority Leader, but we all know how McConnell feels about what he’s supposed to do.
HeleninEire
@Adam L Silverman: LOL, sorry. My bad.
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
There’s a song for that: “My Next Ex-Wife”
Dan B
@Adam L Silverman: Fantastic news about Goldman! Seems the “impeachment parade” (Moskva Mytch) has been underway for some time.
jl
@lamh36: That is from a hoax account, or are you pranking us? I cannot believe that is true. But, who can tell anymore?
Maybe Putin’s secret agents have found all the missing Deep State servers buried out in the Ukrainian woods? And they they were stored in the missing pizza joint basement(!!!!), which was also buried out in the woods!!!!
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman:
Yep. The foot in the door is going to kick that door wide open and what’s inside is going to shock a lot of people who haven’t really been paying attention.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: I’m not an academic. I purposefully chose not to be one because I was not enamored of it. There is no need to insult me by calling me one.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: If we’re lucky we won’t have to learn anything about any sex acts the current president prefers in this impeachment.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: But some of the sketchier BJ commenters are academics. You disrespect us Sir, good day, I say Sir, good day!
@Adam L Silverman: And… despite being an academic, I got your point in that post.
Ohio Mom
Remember when efgoldman would remind us of how long it took for Watergate to become, well, Watergate? Over and over, he counseled patience.
Sorry he’s not here to share our excitement.
lamh36
@jl: nope, actual reporter
Paul Sonne
National security and military for the @WashingtonPost. Formerly @WSJ in Washington, Moscow, London. RT ≠ endorsement. [email protected]
Fuq’n crazy right!
trollhattan
@lamh36:
Now THAT’S funny!
lamh36
Uh…sounds like a bribe to me…
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Wouldn’t be surprised if some of that is tossed out to distract the press.
catclub
@StringOnAStick:
you may indeed think that. But there is no apparent evidence that many who are investing in markets seems to believe anything like that. Are they desperate that investigation and impeachment take place? To protect the economy? Not really.
The reformed broker had a post up on how impeachments matter to investing and markets and the economy. And the conclusion is mostly… cannot tell. The economy has been very slowly improving for the past ten years or so. I would expect any recession to be mild – you can’t fall far if you never get off the first floor.
Fair Economist
@Adam L Silverman: My take on the Russian comment is that it’s not a threat but reminding Trump that there are profoundly compromising comments on the calls between Putin and Trump and that Trump should keep them secret at all costs. Possibly Putin wasn’t aware that there could be notes of his discussions.
Adam L Silverman
@StringOnAStick: Also, less than three shopping days till the government shuts down!
The Senate has passed the CR and it is now awaiting the President’s signature. How much you want to bet that the President thinks that if the government shuts down, so does the impeachment inquiry.
Ohio Mom
@Adam L Silverman: I think we already did, back when Stormy Daniels was sharing her experience.
HeleninEire
@Adam L Silverman: I think my point was missed by you too. I respect academics tremendously. I’ve worked for them for years.
Yarrow
@lamh36:
There’s also this:
which also seems kind of crime-like.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: He used to serve as the counsel for Opus Dei’s DC headquarters.
Jay
catclub
@Adam L Silverman:
only deaf mutes called as witnesses? blame the mimes, they’ll never talk!
MattF
@Yarrow: It’s notable that Trump isn’t really offering any defense of his actions. According to Trump, everything is just perfect, and is going exactly as it should. We may find that various world leaders will disagree. And then… what?
Millard Filmore
@StringOnAStick:
I have to wonder how extensive a gag Barr will put on witnesses and the production of documents in their possession, with threats of espionage charges and the like.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: It’s legit.
lamh36
Kamala Harris says “Trump no better than any other dictator…”
https://twitter.com/hardball/status/1177568600368058368
She had Tweety flustered…lol…I’m guessing he expected quibbling…LOL
Yarrow
@Fair Economist:
Isn’t that a threat? “Nice presidency you have there. Shame if something happened to it…”
SFAW
@lamh36:
I prefer he get defenestrated. Preferably from the top of the Empire State Building. Or maybe Scheissegibbon Schloss
Adam L Silverman
@jl: Have your second contact my second.
Keith P.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Trump needs that toilet launcher from SNL so people don’t say it was the size of dump that killed him. Instead he died peacefully, reading an upside down copy of “The Art of the Deal”
Yarrow
@MattF: What is going to happen is that for the very first time in his life Trump will be held accountable for his actions.
SFAW
@zhena gogolia:
Thanks for the tip-off — I completely missed it the first time I read that tweet.
jl
@catclub: I haven’t seen any evidence that the impeachment has any noticeable effect on markets. There might be some unexpected trouble brewing, but that started before the big reveal on frank bald and patent and obvious Trumpster criminality. The overnight currency lending market has had a series of mini liquidity crises, during or right after Fed bond auctions to further lower short term interest rates. No one quite understands what is going on. But, then if economy tries to operate too long, and relies too heavily, on monetary policy to perform all macroeconomic management, and in addition is supposed to cater to the insane whims of a lunatic president, sooner or later unexpected results may occur.
@Adam L Silverman: Now that could trigger a recession in the current climate. Trump’s ego so big he won’t let anything destroy him before he can destroy himself out in public?
Another Scott
Wonkette:
Least surprising thing so far.
Grrr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: Perhaps you want to rethink your use of “tossed out” in this context?
Quinerly
I’m hanging around Rudy’s Twitter way too much. I guess I enjoy the mocking and hatred of him (and the guy who is on every feed blurting out at random “Cousin Fucker.” It’s like Tourettes) Rudy’s latest Tweet is criticizing the length of a footnote in Deep Whistle’s report. The thing is, apparently Rudy is drunk or not wearing his glasses… It’s clearly 4 numbered footnotes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1177627265921880070
Adam L Silverman
@Fair Economist: The reminder is the veiled threat.
Fair Economist
@Yarrow: I’m saying I don’t think Putin is threatening to do bad things to Trump. I think Putin realizes Trump releasing those transcripts will get him in deep trouble with the American people, and now thinks Trump is addled enough to not realize it, and needs to be reminded.
SFAW
@Yarrow:
On the other hand, someone could offer a reward of — oh, I don’t know, $5? Nah, five cents? — if someone beats the ever-loving shit out of Wohl and Burkman. The only problem would be getting the Mint to ensure there are enough nickels.
Dan B
@Jay: Jayapal is my Rep. She’s got charisma and gravitas to spare. It also helps that she founded a group to assist immigrants after 911. She has depth of experience and connections.
jl
@Yarrow: I think Putin is saying to Trump what Trump said to Zelensky, except with more finesse, and the consequences Putin has in mind totally known only to Trump, or closest Trumpsters.
oatler.
“Mr President, you have come into my wheelhouse.”
Batman couldn’t have said it better.
lamh36
Ruckus
@Yarrow:
I agree. And that’s why I’m saying it here, to people on this blog who seemingly should know better. I have no intention of saying that on twitter, which has a much larger and different audience. On twitter, every tweet about politics has many comments from different sides of the political spectrum. We mostly get one side, if for no other reason, here we make arguments about what we say, what we actually mean, there you see that far less often, tweets age very, very rapidly, far more than posts do on BJ, even when they get retweeted by many people.
I’m not apologizing for my comment, this is only the third time presidential impeachment has been used in our history. The first two, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were both acquitted by the senate. This is a big fucking deal and the republicans tried to make a mockery of it with Bill Clinton. They will try that again with this. We have to fight back with every thing, including that they used it for nothing but bullshit.
Yarrow
@Adam L Silverman: Could have used “leaked,” which also would have required a re-think.
catclub
@Another Scott: I did not gather that part from the TPM report that said the complaint first went to IC General Counsel – which informed the White House of the complaint…. THEN went to the Inspector General when that complaint got ignored.
This means the whistleblower was already known to the WH, and had been first going through channels. The DNI Coats and Gordon resignations
could be of interest to the committees.
MCA1
@Ruckus: Yes, all this. Plus, it was YESTERDAY that we found out about this abuse of the classification system. They’ve kinda got their hands full. I have no doubt that that particular leg of this millipede of scandal will be looked at closely at some point.
Dan B
@lamh36: Will Rudy stsy after the party at the Kremlin?
Just wonderin…
psycholinguist
It irks me that the media seems to want to equate this with Clinton’s impeachment, which was about a blowjob, rather than with Nixon’s which, like this one, was about election interference.
I went and looked up the pew poll for support of impeachment. It didn’t cross the 50% mark until the month Nixon resigned. I think I heard current is around 47%
Jay
JPL
@Ohio Mom: Makes me almost want to believe in heaven, but I know if he were here, he’d be beaming.
rikyrah
I’m not voting for your white savior candidate ? (@Needle_of_Arya) Tweeted:
Elizabeth Warren’s likely electoral map. This is why you don’t choose a candidate just because she seems like your mom.
Check out this 2020 election forecast via @270toWin https://t.co/5TqpdR18Ij #2020election https://twitter.com/Needle_of_Arya/status/1177201223646138369?s=17
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Every time he goes on TV, gives an interview to a print journalist, calls into a radio show, and/or tweets Judith Nathan’s divorce lawyers grab another file folder and add another 30 minutes of billable hours to the running total on the invoice.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@lamh36: Sergeant at Arms is going to be racking up a lot of air miles rounding up these people and bringing them back to the House basement.
Adam L Silverman
@Yarrow: True.
Cheryl Rofer
What a relief! I’ve been thinking of writing a post listing the next people Schiff needs to call as witnesses. But he’s ahead of me. And hired a good staff attorney too.
This is going to be fun.
Adam L Silverman
@catclub: Same whistleblower, two different complaints on two different systems.
jl
@catclub: I can imagine Coates and Gordon saw what was going on, and mulled over what little they could do other than sit there and expose themselves to very bad consequences, so both scrammed asap. But, the news I saw of Gordon’s departure was confusing to me and I never followed up to find out what really happened.
Yarrow
@Fair Economist: I disagree. It’s a mob threat. Putin and Russian mob are the same. Trump’s been mobbed up his whole life from back when his dad was. He may be addled he’ll recognize that for what it is.
patrick II
@catclub:
Washington Post headline just now:
Schiff has asked preservation of all documents, thinking that the Ukraine call was not the only one upclassified to avoid visibility of law breaking. I am guessing Schiff is right.
MattF
@Fair Economist: Putin is probably wondering, as we all are, exactly what Trump hoped to accomplish by releasing the phone memo. And noting that Trump doesn’t appear to be getting competent legal advice. Or maybe getting it and ignoring it.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: He seems nice.
Ruckus
@StringOnAStick:
I think we are talking past each other.
You seem to agree with me and I definitely agree with what you just wrote.
I’m saying that this is too important not to do.
Far too important. I’m just worried that trump will make things far worse than he’s already done, just because he’s a fucking moronic rat stuck in a corner by two cats and and a home owner with a flame thrower.
Adam L Silverman
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: THERE IS NO JAIL OR HOLDING CELL IN THE HOUSE BASEMENT, IN THE BASEMENT OF THE CAPITOL, OR IN THE SENATE BASEMENT!!!!
JPL
@patrick II: haha trump is going to start tweeting Nancy said they would only investigate Ukraine.
StringOnAStick
@Adam L Silverman: Oh shit, you could be right on that. I thought it was a done deal to kick that can to Thanksgiving.
@catclub: You know, money runs around the world looking for the best yield vs. risk. TRump and his idiots are definitely ramping up the risk in this economy and the cracks are there to be exploited. I’m sure the folks who lost everything when Argentina crashed thought they couldn’t fall that far either. The US and its citizens have a huge amount of faith that we can never lose that pre-eminent status; I’m not so sure; I hope to have passed from this mortal coil before it happens here. YMMV.
Adam L Silverman
@StringOnAStick: Both chambers of Congress agreed to the CR, I’ve seen nothing reported about what the President will or won’t do.
Gin & Tonic
@jl:
A little of both. He *was* career State Department, but left for the private sector and was recalled as a “Special Envoy” before Yovanovich was sacked. He’s a Republican, but knowledgeable in the Soviet space and, AFAIK, not completely insane.
Jay
Yarrow
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Adam L Silverman: Spollsport.
Yes, I’ve seen that discussion here. I’ll have fun imagining they have mechanisms for bringing in reluctant witnesses anyway.
Patricia Kayden
@dmsilev: Democrats aren’t playing. Full steam ahead. I’m dying for them to subpoena Barr and Giuliani.
Sab
@Adam L Silverman: Don’t you tell us this every thread?
jl
@Adam L Silverman: But there is a little room that looks like one. I saw it during a special tour when I was a kid, I think… or maybe I saw a life size poster of the entrance with the old timey bars in an exhibit at the capitol. It could be fixed up to be nice and cozy.
Edit: the Supreme Bailiff of the Supreme Court could swear it in as a jail.
@Gin & Tonic: thanks for the info.
Patricia Kayden
@Jay: Good for her. And she’s shaken that crooked lawyer loose as well.
Miss Bianca
@Adam L Silverman: Too late. Thanks/no thanks to Stormy Daniels, we not only have a fair idea of what sex acts the current POSUS prefers, we even have a fair(ly horrifying) description of what his wedding tackle looks like.
Where’s that brain bleach cofvefe mug when I need it….
Martin
@Cermet: I’m not sure that’s going to fly as broadly any more. All of these people can testify to their interactions with Ukraine, Rudes, Pompeo, Barr, etc. I expect Dems will start rejecting the ‘immunity before he was president’ bullshit as well. They have a stick now.
Yutsano
@Dan B: I would work hell over high water to have Senator Jayapal once Patty* or Maria decide to hang up their shoes. Hell maybe even squeeze Jay into one of those seats too.
*After Patty becomes the first female Senate Majority Leader.
Patricia Kayden
@Jay: Subpoena Pence and ask him.
Adam L Silverman
JanieM
Is this kind on insulting snark supposed to change anyone’s mind?
Personality-wise, my mom is more like Trump than she is like Elizabeth Warren.
Adam L Silverman
@Sab: Apparently I do.
Ruckus
@SFAW:
I see the local women’s club from Monty Python, who reenacted the the battle of Pearl Harbor. Nice older women with canes, standing in line at the bank to get a role of nickels.
M31
@New Deal democrat:
Stormy already told us that
Adam L Silverman
@jl: That’s the office Pelosi assigned to Matt Gaetz.
lamh36
what a moran (sp on purpose)!
JMG
@PJ: Harris’ memory must be very bad. What the hell was ever “solemn” about the Clinton impeachment, which he covered with ill-concealed glee? Whole story hilarious from start to finish. Lasting impact was 1998’s amazing production of dirty jokes.
M31
Inherent Contempt is the new book by Thomas Pynchon
Jay
Cheryl Rofer
@patrick II: And I am guessing that that server has already been compromised unless somehow they sent someone to guard it.
I suspect that Adam will remind us that only a few people have access to that server, but they allowed the improper loading of the Zelensky conversations. Presumably that route could be used again to unload or properly mark or whatever those other conversations we all would like to see.
I haven’t seen anything about how it is being protected, but then again, we wouldn’t.
Hungry Joe
Is anyone else having trouble envisioning the Sergeant at Arms or the Capitol Police or — who knows? — Batman tracking down those who snub subpoenas and frog-or-whatever marching them to the House? Instead I can see Trump’s telling them to ignore the subpoenas — for them to tell Congress, in effect, to “Come and get us, if you dare” … and nobody does. This is just failure of imagination on my part, right?
Right?
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: @JanieM: It’s also a user generated map. It isn’t based on any polling or anything even resembling empirical data. You can go to the link at The New York Times and make whatever electoral college outcome map you like for whatever candidate showing all sorts of ways to get to 270 electoral votes.
trollhattan
@JanieM:
Yeah, dumbest “hot take” I’ve read in a while. Does again show the extra-high mountain a woman will have to scale to become president.
Gin & Tonic
@Fair Economist:
That is not possible, sorry.
Millard Filmore
@Adam L Silverman: Trump can veto, then the issue turn on what action the Senate will take.
Trump can ignore it. According to https://www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/pocket_veto.htm
“The Constitution grants the president 10 days to review a measure passed by the Congress. If the president has not signed the bill after 10 days, it becomes law without his signature.”
Trump cannot jam this bill all on his own.
piratedan
@Adam L Silverman: i would find it perfectly acceptable if they were handcuffed behind their backs and placed on a tipped chair in the corner while business continued…. or even facing the wall and forced to continue to listen to the proceedings….
trollhattan
@JMG:
When your standard bearer is Ken Starr, you’ve already lost any shred of propriety.
zhena gogolia
@Ohio Mom:
I was thinking about him, Scotian, and Schlemazel yesterday.
Jay
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: So who the hell *is* he planning to vote for? Bernie? Trump? Jesus.
Oh, wait, Jesus ain’t running.
StringOnAStick
@Ruckus: OK, I agree we missed each other a little. I’ve grown increasingly fearful that we’re (meaning anyone not rich) are getting set up for the disaster capitalism treatment. Those that would profit the most from it are the same group using racism and white supremacy to talk nearly half the voting public into walking into their abbatoir. Paulie Ryan is back in DC, hoping he gets a chance to fulfill his college kegger dream of eliminating SS and Medicare; tRump set the stage by exploding the deficit. It’s always been the long term plan, so I get a bit of enjoyment at anything that upsets their plans, even though I have dark fears that we’re just pushing off what they will inevitably win on. This election is our last chance to change the trajectory, so the more we dirty up tRump and all R’s the better.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: That is, or was or is supposed to be, one of the single most secure systems in the world. It is completely airgapped from everything else. I’m not sure, so don’t quote me, but I don’t think the info on it can be accessed by the normal TS/SCI level system. You have to log on, using your codeword access, to a specialized work station that only accesses this specific system. That does not mean that someone who does have access to it has not been sent to scrub and remove all this information. If it turns out they did, that will create even more problems as now there will be no records of any of these conversations. And, whoever scrubbed the materials, is going to have serious legal problems.
laura
@rikyrah: That 270 to win is a spiffy website, but I couldn’t figure out how to run it with Kamala Harris as the candidate. I view her ground game as the strongest and most strategic despite all the hubbub that the debates generate, and that so long as she hangs on till the primaries she will ultimately emerge as the candidate. I cannot wait to cast my ballot for my Senator and hope that as the impeachment inquiry rolls out, her prescient line of questing of Barr and Justice Gang Bang will raise her profile and garner support.
StringOnAStick
@Adam L Silverman: See, there’s the scary part because now he’s seriously pissed!
Another Scott
@catclub: The rot goes very, very deep.
FTFNYT from Sunday July 28:
(Emphasis added.)
So Coats talked with Donnie the week of July 21-27, but Donnie had talked to Ratcliffe days before.
The call that the White House released a memo about was on Thursday July 25. So, the timing isn’t quite right for Coats to suddenly jump after Donnie’s call with Zelenskyy.
Unless Coats knew about earlier shake-down calls…
Hmm….
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Millard Filmore: I’m aware of how it works. What I’ve not seen is reporting on
whether or not he’ll sign it or veto it.
JPL
@Gin & Tonic: Putin has notes of the Helsinki meeting so trump is not going to turn on his good buddy.
Yarrow
@StringOnAStick:
Paul Ryan is in trouble, as I said yesterday and again today. He’ll not get to fulfill those dreams. He’ll be lucky to escape without doing time.
SFAW
@Adam L Silverman:
But there is a pizza joint. Q told me.
laura
@zhena gogolia: I hope our dear, departed men are in heaven with Steve Gilliard watching what they each knew was (hopefully) sure to come.
Each name, each memory, a Blessing.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: https://www.govexec.com/management/2019/09/president-trump-signs-stopgap-budget-keeping-agencies-open-7-weeks/160234/
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: You don’t think there are backups?
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: Well that answers that.
Jay
StringOnAStick
@Yarrow:
Your finger’s to the FSM’s PC; please make it so! I have a depth of contempt for that little weasel that isn’t healthy.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t know how the system backs itself up. That is not in any of my areas of expertise.
Millard Filmore
@Adam L Silverman: Sorry, I did not mean to imply that your knowledge of the subject was thin. There must be more than a few lurkers or occasional posters (like me) that did not know.
Ruckus
@JanieM:
I laughed out loud at that for a moment. Then it hit me, mine sort of was as well. A lot smarter but her world did rotate around her. Loosely around her but it did. And she did look out for others needs, something trump wouldn’t and has never done. But more trump like than how Elizabeth Warren presents? To a degree, yes.
Yarrow
@StringOnAStick: Here’s my comment today on Ryan. He’s been in trouble for a long time. There’s a reason he quit and it wasn’t to spend more time with his family.
StringOnAStick
@Jay: Hey look, Lindsey might be right about something! Wrong on the timing but I’m liking the idea that this scandal and the tentacles to all the R’s who are enabling it is going to be, how we say, comprehensively destructive.
I haven’t felt much hope that we’d somehow survive this since 2016, but I’m feeling something that I think is the seed of hope though tempered by the certain knowledge that this whole thing is going to be a Cat 5 shitstorm because that’s how tRump operates and everyone who is already tainted has to go along for the ride or turn on him now. I’ll bet some folks have a lot of hard thinking to do this weekend…
patrick II
@Cheryl Rofer:
If that server was for top-secret codeword information only, I am not sure how easy it would be to delete data without leaving a trail. Their effort to hide proof of corruptions may have made it more difficult to remove.
dm
@Adam L Silverman: There’s probably a pretty rigorous audit trail maintained on that machine, with entry, modification, and deletion of files recorded in an audit trail that would be hard to defeat. At least, that’s what I remember the guidelines saying.
p.a.
And when every witness ‘Lewandowskis’ and the executive privilege assertions fill the air, what will happen? Have the Dems evolved a spine in the last week? What will the Ents do when they wake up? Will they realize they are strong?
Can someone corral Jeff (should drop the ell) Flake and ask him if the 30-35 Republican Senators recall pledging to defend the Constitution?
Shalimar
@catclub: It has been a day. Way too early to say they aren’t pursuing anything. Far more likely whoever has been assigned that inquiry hasn’t finished their subpoenas yet.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t know anything about Federal IT, or classified systems specifically, but I’d bet the house and the farm that there are multiple generations of backups, if anyone with any sense built that system.
StringOnAStick
@Ruckus: My mom for sure was quite tRump-like; man was she a racist and not a warm person at all. She had grandkids 1 mile away that she never, ever went to visit, called, asked over to the house, etc. My dad isn’t even a bit better and I’m hoping a big impeachment show that not even FOX can cover up is going to be quite an eye opener for him though I know he’ll never change his mind. Conservatism can’t fail, blah, blah, blah.
Ruckus
@StringOnAStick:
Good.
I wonder what if anything will get the olds of the republican party, those that depend on so much from the government but who continue to vote directly against their own best interests…..
We know it won’t be faux news.
We know it won’t be the republican party.
We know it won’t be coming to their senses.
Possibly them dying?
Possibly living under a bridge with out a curtain rod, a sparrow or a fire?
Possibly no one left in their towns to drive them to three towns over to see the one doctor in the area, a black woman who speaks with an accent, has a latino nurse, who speaks with an accent, and a Vietnamese receptionist, who speaks with an accent.
JanieM
@Ruckus:
My comment about my mom was mostly about the narcissism. Like yours, mine is a lot smarter than Clickbait, but though she thinks she looks out for others’ needs (obsesses about them, in fact), what she’s really looking out for is the needs *she* thinks we should have. Woe to any of us if we actually want what we want, instead of what she thinks we should want.
Etc.
Notice the “is” — she’s about to turn 96. Luckily for me, neither she nor anyone else in my family follows me on the internet. ;-)
New Deal democrat
@Adam L Silverman:
Does the DC police department have a jail? Is there a prohibition no the House entering into an agreement with them?
Adam L Silverman
@patrick II: It would be difficult. There will be a hard copy sign in log to get into the room with the work stations. That will be under video surveillance that is time and date coded. The room with the work stations will also be under video surveillance that is time and date coded. And every log in, log off, and keystroke is monitored and recorded on that system/on those work stations.
p.a.
@Ruckus: Was it a famous physicist who said people almost never change their minds; knowledge advances one funeral at a time…?
Adam L Silverman
@dm: Yep. All of it will be at least as robust as what they use for the normal TS/SCI systems.
Ruckus
@JanieM:
Hey we had the same mom! Or at least a clone. I have stories. I’ll bet good money that you do as well. My sisters had them as well. They never learned to ignore the desires, I did. It made my life marginally better. And sometimes funnier. OK not funnier but that’s still a good story.
Mom passed going on 8 yrs ago, she was 1 day short of her 95 birthday.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I would expect, but it is outside of my areas of knowledge.
Adam L Silverman
@New Deal democrat: I have no firsthand, direct experience with the DC police or their facilities, but I would expect they have a jail. I do not know what the Sergeant of Arms is or is not empowered to do. He is, however, a retired Secret Service supervisory special agent.
Ruckus
@p.a.:
Sounds about right.
I can tell you, as an official old, that it gets harder and harder to change your mind as you get older. It’s more difficult to learn and you have a lifetime of crap stored up to tell you how right you are about everything. And all that crap stored up, a lot of the time you can’t even tell if you remember it right. Should have kept a diary. Of course I’d never read the damn thing so……
dm
@Adam L Silverman:I should have said that I’ve never worked directly with such systems, so I wasn’t sure to what extent the guidelines were merely aspirational. The presumed existence of data from multiple compartments on the system would make me think that security on that system would be quite tight. On the other hand, it could be a very old system with them relying primarily on personnel security and the air-gap to keep things safe.
moops
@Adam L Silverman: If faced with turning over transcripts I think someone will make a serious attempt to corrupt the records. That is also a crime, but one they might be willing to make the trade for. We rarely adequately punish people for destruction of evidence. Ollie North and Fawn Hall were caught literally shredding documents. He ended up with the charges vacated. Fawn Hall was granted immunity. The Bush II WH destroyed records in the Plame Affair. Nobody went down for that.
Jay
moops
@Adam L Silverman:
Oh, I don’t think the records will be corrupted in secret. The perpetrator will almost certainly be identified. They will just get a slap on the wrist, then get a job as President of the NRA, or at least a gig at Fox News.
Aleta
@Adam L Silverman: Backups are a fundamental part of cyber security. The choice of methods is part of the design of a cyber security system.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: Washington’s tomb?
randy_khan
@Adam L Silverman: But there could be if they wanted. It’s a big building. ;-)
Kayla Rudbek
@Adam L Silverman: and Robert Hanssen the Soviet/Russian spy was also Opus Dei.
Kayla Rudbek
@Adam L Silverman: I heard that someone managed to get the Melissa virus onto an air gapped computer in a US base in South Korea, so I am dammed sure that someone will try to and succeed in messing with that air gapped computer in the White House.
joel hanes
@Adam L Silverman:
whoever scrubbed the materials, is going to have serious legal problems.
Remember the mysterious fire at the Naval Observatory when Cheney was VP?
What burned?
How did that fire start?
I don’t think we ever got answers, but I suspect that the answer to the first question is
Evidence
Aleta
@randy_khan: Like a guard room
Uncle Cosmo
@Adam L Silverman: Yikes. Anyone who’s at all religious should pray for the health of Pope Frankie – those Christofascists** have been itching to get him off the Throne of Peter since he first sat on it.
** In postwar Europe “Christian Democratic Party” was a thinly veiled pseudonym for “Catholic Falange.”
J R in WV
@catclub:
You have made the same mistake over and over today. Where you say “the complaint first went to IC General Counsel” you are wrong. It first went to the CIA General Counsel, who informed the White House counsel of the complaint. This makes the rest of your comment(s) way less of interest. Try to pay attention.
You have made this mistake over and over today.
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
You are quite correct!
This is why Speaker Pelosi needs to meet with DC municipal officers to obtain an agreement with them to provide space in DC municipal facilities to house House arrestees while awaiting their willingness to appear and testify before the appropriate committees.
Problem solved.
Going forward, perhaps there should be legislation to cause such a federal facility to be created in the large basement space within the legislative buildings… perhaps a small space now part of the House gym? Somewhere like that, room for perhaps a dozen or so witnesses…
J R in WV
@Uncle Cosmo:
Yes, indeed. There’s a reason Pope Frank eats in a communal dining hall as opposed to being served a special meal by servants.
You knew that, right?
Sally
@Adam L Silverman: Then incarcerate them in the Ping Pong Basement!