Finnish President Sauli Niinistö is all of us:
The President of Finland has a solidly Scandinavian response to physical contact from Trump. pic.twitter.com/vZca7v7zgu
— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) October 2, 2019
I won’t even try to summarize how batshit insane Trump’s rants were during this White House presser that ended a short time ago. Trump again called the whistleblower a spy and said Schiff should be forced to resign and “looked at” for treason. He also described a bizarre fantasy in which his (Trump’s) release of the not-transcript of the “perfect” conversation with the Ukrainian president was somehow a genius “gotcha” strategy that blew Schiff out of the water. Maybe it was a garbled recitation of Hannity’s opening last night? Just incoherent and embarrassing on every level. I felt such pity for Niinistö.
Anyhoo, I bet the president of Finland can’t wait to leave the orange weirdo behind and go home to his fabulous Boston terrier:
I hope Niinistö brought Trump one of them incredibly powerful rakes the Finns use when raking their forests.
BC that looks like your puppy!
Yes, that smile on the doggie’s face is fabulous!
hells littlest angel
And just think: that’s Trump at his best. Incoherent, but not crazed.
At first, I thought you’d photoshopped Badger in!
Depending on what happens to Trump (and I hope it includes impeachment, prison, and being retroactively found to have been an illegitimately elected POTUS): it will be fascinating to read foreign leaders’ memoirs in a few years. Some of them might want to be very frank about our freak show.
I am on the White House email feed (foolish me, I submitted a comment on something during the first month of the Administration), and the current line is that the release of the call summary and the whistleblower complaint destroyed the “left’s” strategy because it was such great transparency. And I know from press reports that the original thought was that the summary would somehow exonerate Trump, so my guess is he really does believe it.
I trust a dog that happy.
Channeling the doggo: “I’m the smart one in the family. No one is evah gonna make me meet up with no Donald Trump.”
hells littlest angel
Yes, but maybe more than just a few years. I look forward to that brief interlude in which everyone pretends Trump never existed.
That presser was cray cray. He is definitely melting down before our eyes.
Inb4 disappoint about not reigniting the Winter War.
@feebog: And his hardcore supporters still love it because Cleek’s law and it pwned the libz.
OMFG, he’s about to hold a full press conference. After that unhinged performance with the president of Finland! This is gonna be lit.
I kind of only half heard a bit of it. Why was he ranting about Adam Schiff’s jock strap?
Has there been discussion about B. Sander’s emergency double-stent procedure after “chest pains” yesterday?
Double stent? That means he should have bi-pass but won’t.
Something already melted can only evaporate. Here’s hoping.
@immanentize: Whole thread about it downstairs.
Yeah, copious comments. Some of us were accused of being “happy” about it. Whatevs, typical.
“Area Old Man has Procedure” Won’t be the last, we need to get real about the geriatric cohort of our candidates.
I suppressed my rising gorge long enough to find out — Schiff can’t carry Pompeo’s “blank-strap, I won’t say it because they’ll say it’s so terrible to say.”
@immanentize: I don’t blame anyone who avoids bypass surgery if they can. My MIL had bypass surgery and told me that she realized within a few months that she could no longer play complex pieces on the piano. She needed it, but it had some very big downsides.
Trump is sublime. He may sublimate.
The largest Finnish daily, Helsinkin Sanomat, says Niinistö was not amused. And they have the picture to prove it.
@hells littlest angel: Right. This is the ‘calm and analytical’ version of Trump-Behind-Closed-Doors.
Cheryl from Maryland
@immanentize: Not in my husband’s experience. Sometimes two stents are used because the blockage is at a curve in the artery. Still serious.
Like a chunk of dry ice. Best television since yule log!
Its navratri (nine nights) where Hindus celebrate the divine in the feminine form. At my uncle’s place we would install a pot signifying the goddess, decorate it with mango leaves, lotuses and other flowers. We would sing aartis every night, my grandfather would do a kapur (camphor) aarti. We would clap or have cymbals and bells as accompaniment.
And on one day of the nine, my aunt would invite all the women in the extended family, my great grand mother had 9 sons and two daughters, so you can imagine the size of the gathering. There would be a lunch and a pooja with an panch aarti (lamp with 5 wicks) of every woman who was invited. Me, my cousins would help. My aunt’s mother in her nine yard sari would be in charge. And the whole house would smell great with all the flowers, rose water and camphor smoke.
Not quite my family’s celebration but navaratri in Ram Leela
Nagad Sang Dhol
Dorothy A. Winsor
@immanentize: I had two stents put in last August, one behind the other to open a blocked passage. I think angioplasty is pretty common.
Man, I see Finnish written down, and it’s always a smack-in-the-head reminder that it’s not even vaguely related to English.
@Betty Cracker: I guess I am glad I missed it.
@Barbara: My good friend just has a triple in DC. He was offered a double stent option, but was also told that by pass really was by far the best procedure for living the longest life. My Dad also had a quad bypass. I am sorry for your Mom — especially something so critical to her enjoyment of life. But I hope it was still, in spite of that loss, a generally good life going forward for her. It was for my Dad for a decade (he thankfully did not suffer the cognitive problem associated with blood pumps, etc.)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Frankensteinbeck: As I recall, it’s not even in the Indo-European language family.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Dorothy A. Winsor: It is common, my brother has a stent. So far, no heart disease for me! although the genetics will likely catch me even though I never smoked like my Dad or brother. I was just thinking a double stent was referring to placing stents in two separate blocked arteries. Not your serial two-stent procedure. But I really don’t know what “double stent” meant for Sanders.
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yup. Finno-Ugric.
Maybe I shoulda been a linguist.
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Yes. Magyar (Hungarian) and Finnish are vaguely related, but otherwise it’s a whooooole different branch of the human language tree.
@Cheryl from Maryland: Your husband and DAW. I learn something new every day.
Drumpf is really melting down. He can’t stop talking about Pelosi and Schiff for a nanosecond.
This is so sick, embarrassing, terrifying, horrible, horrible, horrible.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@zhena gogolia: Is this at his formal press conference? I think I have to go see what Wonkette has to tell me.
ETA: Wow, this Finnish guy is trying to knock some info into Trump’s head. “Mr President, you have a great democracy. Keep it going.” Also climate disaster in the arctic.
On the Metropark running path yesterday we were overtaken by a Boston terrier carrying a big stick (3 in diameter, 4 foot length) back to his car. Yes he was on a leash with an owner. No I didn’t have a camera.
For someone who’s supposedly germaphobic, Trump is sure inappropriately handsy with other leaders (not to mention all women).
I speculate that the Talking Yam’s Invisible-Centaur posture is caused by a Men’s Health Problem, possibly prostatitis or worse. I have no evidence at all. But I did watch the movie “The Paper”, with a host of fine actors, including Robert Duvall as the Editor, who modeled the posture perfectly after a scene with his doc in which prostate cancer 6 months to live maybe was discussed. Then, based on nothing but a conversation with a knowledgeable RN of my acquaintance, I’ve decided that the Talking Yam’s neurological issues are increasingly similar, I’m sad to say, to my father’s, who has vascular dementia. Again, no evidence, just an eerie similarity.
@Frankensteinbeck: But English and Marathi have many similar words despite not having direct contact for thousands of years. Isn’t that crazy.
I am reading a book about the Indo-European languages and it is fascinating.
Even the terrier looks embarrassed.
Finnish and Turkish are apparently related.
I wrote some papers in college on Finnish and Hungarian music inspired by the Kalevala. I love the look and sound of the Finnish language, but you’re right, there’s no connection to English.
@immanentize: Double stent could just mean a long blockage and no particular need for bypass. As Barbara says, bypass often has serious long-term consequences, especially to mental functions, and it’s a very rational decision to avoid it for anything other than left main cardiac artery occlusion or maybe left anterior descending occlusion.
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
It’s Finno-Ugric. And so fascinating to me that Finland and Hungary have not only a common linguistic source, but a common mythology/folklore.
This news conference was more subdued and Trump stayed on topic, reading his speech rather than freelancing. The Finnish President gave a measured response, polite, but also pointed in that he reminded Trump that we need to maintain our democracy and that the climate change and the melting ice globally has dire consequences.
Now they’ve opened the question period and Trump is back in cuckoobird land. Dammit!
@zhena gogolia: Wait…whaaat? OMG, that’s…crass…even for President Impeached.
The Kalevala is AMAZING. I read it and it’s my favorite ancient (although I know that’s questionable) document. I got to the recipe for beer and I was like “We have reached Peak Finland.”
I understand tango music is pretty popular in Finland. Here’s a Finnish duo to go with afternoon tea:
Just got off the phone with the orthopædic surgeon’s office. I have an exam and consultation this Friday, and surgery scheduled for Monday. Going fuckin’ nuts with this temporary splint, although I doubt a permanent cast will be much better. But am very glad indeed to have a couple of definite appointments, finally.
ARRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!! Finland is not a Scandinavian country. Like the Scandinavian countries — Sweden, Denmark, and Norway, and, if you will, Iceland — it’s a Northern European country. But they don’t speak a Germanic language and they’re of a different ethnic stock. This drives me nuts just slightly less than using “toxin” as a synonym for “poison,” because “poison” seems too harsh.
(I’m a longtime newspaper copy editor in a previous life, I’m not merely trying to curry favor with Steve in ATL.)
Finland is a country of happy Boston Terriers.
We should really send the President of Finland a nice fruit basket or something for having to put up with that.
I feel so sorry for any not autocrat who has to visit this unstable morass of need. And am so glad it’s not me, blessed.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
“Maybe that’s because aliens helped us become civilized //s
But yeah, that’s pretty amazing
Are you familiar with the Indus Valley Civilization?
@schrodingers_cat: Words can hang around quite a while. I saw one paper claiming that for certain words already known to be strongly conserved over time (including words for body parts and ordinal numbers IIRC) there are apparent cognates spread across ALL languages, indicating some words from the last common ancestral human language have been conserved as cognates in many living languages. Oddly, English seems to have kept none of this particular set.
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
That is correct. It’s Uralic, which puts it in a completely different category.
I see the plan to make Democrats pay for focusing on impeachment instead of legislation is going well. Impeachment is about him, hence his interest.
That’s one fabulous pooch.
Haven’t seen any Badger pictures lately now that you mention it. ?
@SiubhanDuinne: Inb4 Cheryl points out Estonian is a much closer cousin. There is even some intelligibility between Estonian and Suomi (I just adore the Finnish word for their language) although probably due to Slavic influences there are some different sounds and such between the two.
Agglutinate! Agglutinate everything!
I don’t like to be pawed at either so I feel for him. Why can’t people just keep their hands to themselves? Especially him. Gross.
@tokyokie: Go take it up with @nycsouthpaw.
Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
It is truly horrible and I expect it will get a lot lot worse. Right now, we can only guess at what the bottom will look like. I don’t think we’ll be seeing that for a while.
He and his people are evil AND stunning in their horrible incompetence. I am continually amazed but we are in for it and it will take all of our formal leaders efforts both inside and outside government to keep us together to survive this. I am so hopeful to see the bureaucrats risking what they are to come forward, like the IG of the State Department. True patriots. We have write down their names and sing their praises so no one forgets.
The Trumpites are a malevolent group who will want to damage as much as they can out of spite and for revenge. I do believe, however, that there are some in that group who may peel off and let us know what is going on. I hope more and more will decide to reveal what we need to get these people out.
@Fair Economist: Turns out that the word ‘lox’ comes directly from the Proto-Indo-European word ‘laks’ for salmon. So, when you’re having lox on a bagel, you can raise a salute to the Old Ones.
@hells littlest angel:
Oh that’ll happen here. *cough*Bush-Cheney*cough* But in foreign lands?
I’m sorry it has come to surgery, but so glad you have a good surgeon to sort things out. Good luck.
I’m guessing it’s also a country of happy toted Boston terriers at least six months/year. “Little Helsinki vanished in the snow, again.”
@schrodingers_cat: Interesting. Thank you.
Could you give some source for the place/importance of the feminine in Hinduism?
Studied Hinduism a bit in college (grad 61)as part of a yr long course on the history of the 5 main world religions. I sent off for info to the Vedanta Society of SoCalifornia that had the copyright on one of the things we read
@schrodingers_cat: It fascinates me too. I’ve read several books on the subject. I wonder if I’ve already read the one you’re on. What’s it called? And, in case, I haven’t, would you recommend it?
@Fair Economist: English and Marathi are two languages from two different branches of the Indo-European family, Marathi from Indic branch and
English from the Germanic branch. They had a common ancestor in the distant past. Proto-Indo-European. We are all Russian or Ukranian..
sinew = snayu for muscle
name == naam for name
There are many more examples. Actually German is closer than English to Indian languages. Guess where Nazis got the word Aryan from?
Arya == Pure in Sanskrit (one who followed vedic rituals, it was more a religious than a racial description)
@donnah: I’m trying not to listen to it (my husband is watching the conference in another room), but unless I’m very much mistaken, Trump accused Schiff of writing the whistleblower complaint. Cuckooland is right!
Y’all need to listen to this wonderful Finnish polka. It’s amazeballs.
@prostratedragon: Apparently there is such a thing as the Finnish tango as a dance style distinct from the Argentine variety.
Some years ago I was connecting to somewhere through Keflavik & in one of the shops I found a CD of Finnish tango, so I picked it up & walked toward the cashiers –
– & then thought, Wait a minute, I want to see what a Finnish tango looks like, not listen to the music they do it to! And put the disc back. Still haven’t seen it (though admittedly it hasn’t been a high priority).
@SiubhanDuinne: OK to ask for details? Ignore my questions if you prefer. Is the injury to your wrist described as breaks, torn ligaments? What will the surgery do to repair? How long will you wear a cast? When will you be able to drive?
This must be extremely aggravating and uncomfortable, also painful. Hope you feel better soon.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: cites
Hoocoudanode that appointing as Secretary of Agriculture an uber-factory-farm guy who has gotten rich putting family farms out of business would be bad for family farms?
@Sloane Ranger: The American Heritage Dictionary has an Appendix with a lexicon of Indo-European roots.
@Betty Cracker: *sigh*
And no one is willing to do an Amendment 25 in his Cabinet. Because that would end all their endless grift cycles. Plus Barr and Pompeo would be in serious legal jeopardy.
Thanks. I think it’ll be fine, and appreciate your (and everyone’s) good thoughts.
Speaking of which, how is our Immp doing? Did he have any grand adventures during his weekend in the big city?
Middle of our Canadian American national treasure’s thread.
@Yustano: IIUC the difference between Finnish & Estonian is in large part due to the fact that when the Teutonic Knights reached the southern shore of the Gulf of Finland they stopped. I understand the languages are mutually comprehensible to a large extent & that during the Soviet era Estonians had a window on the West via Finnish broadcast media.
@Sloane Ranger: Here is a link
@SiubhanDuinne: That looks like it’s got some incredible wordplay in the lyrics. Wish I knew Finnish to appreciate it.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
Not to mention the Swastika, as I’m sure you know. Did the Holocaust affect how the Swastika was viewed in India as it obviously has in the western world? It has thousands of years of history behind it in India, so I can see it being affected to greatly
Dog have mercy, take one morning offline and there’s more shit happening than the entire eight years of the Obama administration.
The puppy is fabulous with that smile.
@Frankensteinbeck: I find it fascinating that Finnish and Hungarian are not IndoEuropean languages. Found it pretty mind-boggling that the Germans who studied languages in depth in the 19th century called these languages IndoGermanic!
Is Basque still considered to seemingly have appeared out of nowhere with zero relationship to any other language in Europe? Been a while since I studied history of languages.
Anybody left in the cupboard besides Frau Turtle? Who has popped up in public precisely once, to yell at California for trying to make our cars deadly. Thanks, lady, now would you please remove the boss?
I suppose there’s genius Rih Perry, sleepin’ Ben and Betsy How Dare You Question My Experience DeVos.
A new story in nyt describes how Schiff was told of the wb complaint before it was filed.
so very very true
hells littlest angel
@mrmoshpotato: I don’t know. If we replace him with someone smart and decent (you know who I mean), other countries might give us a break until the next depraved Republican shit-head takes power.
I won’t know the answers to most of those until Friday and shall report back then if you’re still interested.
I have been driving, albeit within a familiar and closely circumscribed area. Driving one-handed isn’t all that difficult, but getting the seat belt properly secured takes some planning!
That press conference went to 11.
hells littlest angel
@Uncle Cosmo: The Finnish tango? What is it, no touching?
So, it’s Wednesday. I can see where by the end of the week, trumpov’s calling for Pelosi’s and Schiff’s “removal” (in cheesy, tv-mafia tones). Will THAT be enough for you to act, GOP?
It’s not really accurate anyway. They survive because long ago they formed cooperatives where they literally pool the milk and sell large quantities. They adjusted for this a long time ago. They’re not selling individual gallons of distinct and unique milk. It’s interchangeable across producers. That’s the only reason it ever worked for small producers. It’s an excuse because they’re all screaming at him.
I correspond with a resident of Finland and I just emailed him to apologize for our sorry excuse of a president and remind him that Trump doesn’t represent our majority as a nation. I know my friend despises Trump and doesn’t hold him against us.
They have a lovely and much beloved President. How I envy that!
In this discussion of Finland, I wish to reiterate: The Finnish national oral epic contains detailed instructions for making beer, including proportions and how to get yeast in the wild, so that no matter what the making of beer will never be lost. Other national epics tell you who conquered who. The Kalevala wants you to know how to make beer, forge iron, build boats, fish, plant crops, and remind you that going to war makes your mother worry and don’t you love your mother more than glory or plunder? Oh, and whether a child is raised with love determines whether they are good or evil.
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Hindu Swastika is slightly a different than the German one. Its red never black and never at an angle. Red is considered auspicious and black is not. And it is used in religious ceremonies. WW2 only touched India peripherally so I would not be surprised if many Indians didn’t even know the Nazi connection.
@SRW1: A linguist of acquaintance told me that Korean and Turkish are related.
@Frankensteinbeck: @Dorothy A. Winsor: Geography Now – Finland
Langfocus – Finnish
@tokyokie: I wondered about calling Finnland a Scandinsvian country.
Sending you positive thoughts. May all go well with your procedure.
@SiubhanDuinne: Thanks. Yeah I want updates if you are inclined. And I want you recovered and having fun soon.
@Fair Economist: You know, as someone who works with GOP-supporting Wisconsin and Minnesottan dairy farmers, this always floors me that it doesn’t get called out more. If I wanted to think of a way to drive them away from supporting a GOP administration I can’t think of better ways than that sort of statement. The amount of pain in the dairy industry and dairy-industry supporting small communities (so… all of them around here), right now, is unreal and everyone knows someone who has lost a long-time family farm to current economic conditions.
And you know, maybe it’s the dog or maybe it’s his face in that picture, but I’ve never been more inclined to actually reach out to a foreign dignitary and offer my apologies as an American than I am today. The guy looks like he just wants to head back home and give his dog a hug. I can’t blame him.
@Yustano: Calling Finland Scandinavian does not make a president of Finland happy.
Besides linguistic and cultural differences, there is history. Finland and Estonia were both ruled by the Scandinavian Swedes. Finland has a bad historical memory of that period, and Estonia has a happier one.The Swedes treated the Estonians better than other conquerors, which isn’t saying much, but its something. And Sweden didn’t really see it itself as conquering Estonia, it was just a place that they had to run for a while when they were conquering other places. And both Sweden and Finland are viewed in Estonia has playing very helpful roles during bad patches for Estonia, such as WWII and Soviet era (which were both very bad patches).
We view Sweden as a benevolent peaceful country that don’t mean no harm. Other Scandinavian countries and Finland have a different view of the matter, which might be out of date, but historical memories are long.
Anyway, ‘Nordic’ is better than ‘Scandinavian’ for Finland.
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: Yes of course.
@Ladyraxterinok: I would say it is pretty important in myth and religion, doesn’t always translate to RL practice though.
It really is pouring salt in their wounds. Oh, well. Maybe they’ll finally break up with their douchebag, abusive boyfriend. We warned ’em. He has a bad reputation. 100% EARNED.
Yeah, seriously. Nowadays we’re like ‘Denmark! How nice and civilized!’ And I read the Gesta Danorum and it’s all ‘WOO AND THEN WE CONQUERED ALL OF SWEDEN AND NORWAY AND FRODO WAS KING OF EVERYWHERE WE GIVE A DAMN ABOUT.’
Temba, his arms wide!
A Ghost To Most
@Yustano: I’ve been curious: can acting cabinet members vote on 25th amendment issues?
@Frankensteinbeck: The Sumerians had a hymn to the Beer Goddess Ninkasi that included a detailed recipe for beer.
@PenandKey: Everyone should understand by now that guaranteed income and profitability are for the big shots, not ordinary people. And the Trumpsters feel they are being treated very unfairly if you press them to the point that they have to spell it out. Ordinary people are supposed to take the hint, be happy with whatever crumbs they get, and vote for Trump. And get tingles up their legs whenever Trump lies about it. Maybe if you put it that way the local family farmers would come to their senses.
@hells littlest angel:
Finnish people experience hormones too, you know!
@hells littlest angel: Looks like this video from Deutsche Welle is an introduction, starting at around 1:30.
I’m surprised & rather disappointed at the distinction between this & Argentine style. According to the instructor the Argentines “just count steps” whereas the Finns emphasize physical contact. (IIUC the tango in Argentina started as a dance for pairs of workingmen, which may explain some of that.) I saw no particularly interesting steps – just a lot of what looked like groping. (Listen to the 84-year-old dance instructor as he crushes the presenter into his octogenarian body, & tell me he isn’t getting off on it…)
@Frankensteinbeck: @MattF: And there are elebenty and one hymns about som raas in the Vedas which was an inebriating drink
Mead and madya (any alcohol in Sanskrit) have the same. madh is the Marathi word for honey.
@trollhattan: ha. maybe the little dogs wear beacons.
@Frankensteinbeck: From what I know about it and have read, Finnish folklore is more upbeat and constructive than most. Maybe the need to be proactive and constructive in getting through the winters influenced it.
Edit: though compared to other cultures, which often emphasize callous gods mistreating humans, and fighting and destroying each other, it’s admittedly a low bar to do better.
Yes. IIRC, nobody has been able to show any kind of relationship between Basque and any other language.
@jl: My Norwegian friend has no love lost for Sweden.
@Elie: In some ways I think the Evangelicals may be his most dangerous supporters . They are true believers led to him by god! Or so they are told weekly and daily in church and on TV. Their belief is constantly supported and strengthened.
Chrissy Stroop, an ex-Evangelical, has several posts on her blog describing how the entire structure and belief system of today’s Evangelicalism is directly hostile to democracy.
@Betty Cracker: Sonny isn’t even that coo coo, and he openly admits being “Coo coo for Cocoa Puffs!”
@jl: Some are coming to their senses, but it’s a weird thing for a lot of them. The number of people I’ve encountered through work that didn’t even know the USDA office was being moved just a couple weeks ago is unreal. Many of them know they’re feeling pain, but since Fox news doesn’t talk about it they don’t know why. I have “market conversations” at work as often as I think I can get away with to try and steer them in the right direction, and it works sometimes, but you can tell the information is going right over many heads.
It doesn’t help any that, for many of them, their political identity is part of their “rugged individualist supporting an ungrateful nation” sense of self. They had pride in that image, and finding out it’s being exploited by people who couldn’t give a rat’s ass if they lose everything is a hard pill for many to swallow. Many of them, in my experience, don’t recognize it until they’re losing everything.
@SiubhanDuinne: Nice, but it’s no When Banana Skins Are Falling
@MattF: Thanks for link. I had seen this in print form, but didn’t know it was avaible on the internet
@hells littlest angel:
Ummmm….Anyone Else But A Foreign Dictator 2020?
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks. It’s a new one to me. I’ve added it to my reading list.
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
I worked with a Finn at the UN who was formerly posted in Hungary, so this is all one guy’s opinion. He said Suomi and Magyar have only the most basic, elementary words in common – think “hand” or “food” – and were not remotely mutually intelligible. Also, oddly, that Finns are very aware of the common root but Hungarians were almost uniformly astonished to hear of it, as they think of their origins and myths as singular and unrelated to everything. Which, in local/regional context, is sorta true. Of course this was 20 years ago at the dawn of the internet, before ideas true, false, and in-between could spread at lightning speed.
Growing up around ample Swedes, Norwegians and Danes my summary of how they view one another is thus:
Norwegians are hicks
Swedes are over-sexed sybarites
Danes are snooty know-it-alls
I’m sure it’s more nuanced than that, but the Cliff’s Notes edition is fine for an easy reference.
@trollhattan: My Norwegian friend even hates IKEA she calls it Swedish Walmart. Sweden ruled over Norway and Norwegians haven’t forgiven or forgotten.
@Sloane Ranger: Its relatively new. He includes lot of research from the former Soviet Union which was not accessible to western scholars before.
He places the birthplace of proto Indo European in the southern Steppes.
@jl: I believe Tolkien used Finnish folklore as a basis for much of the mythology in LOTR etc. And I think he used the language in the creation of one of the Elvish languages.
@schrodingers_cat: And I think the IKEA founder actively supported Nazis, in his youth. Came up in his obits. (He lived to a ripe old age.)
Linguists joke that when Hungarian and Finnish split up the Finns took all the vowels.
@Frankensteinbeck: Thanks. I had heard the name of the epic but had no idea of its contents
Is there a good English translation you can recommend?
@schrodingers_cat: According to older Norwegians I knew when I lived there briefly in the early ’70s, the Danes and the Norwegians suffered occupation by the Nazis, Sweden didn’t, and Swedes were viewed largely as Nazi collaborators. Going back further, Sweden once ruled the areas that are now Norway and Denmark, until Denmark rebelled and gained its independence, taking Norway with it. Norway was then allowed to peacefully form as an independent country in the late 19th century, with nationalistic writers such as Ibsen helping to create a separate cultural identity for Norway.
@A Ghost To Most: I’ve read the amendment several times & I see absolutely no guidance there on this & a whole raft of other questions. Uncharted waters.
Only goes to emphasize that Section 4 of the 25th was emphatically not drafted for use in the current crisis. It works best when POTUS is clearly incapacitated and does not contest the incapacity. It is heavily biased in favor of POTUS (vs. the Acting POTUS) if s/he chooses to contest the finding of incapacity. Original POTUS (OPOTUS) can contest this finding at any time, and resumes the office. The only way OPOTUS does not resume the office is if
1. “The Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide” once again declare that POTUS is incapable within 4 days;
2. Congress then has 21 days (plus 48 hrs to assemble if not then in session);
3. Unless both Houses of Congress vote by a 2/3 majority to confirm the assertion of incapacity by VPOTUS etc, the original POTUS resumes “the powers and duties of his office”.
And there is no limit to the number & frquency of times that OPOTUS can claim s/he is not unable to etc.
The whole structure of the 25th Amendment is to provide for continuity of the National Command Authority in situations where POTUS may be unable to exercise it, so that a hostile power could not use such a situation to launch a first strike on the US when no one is both empowered and able to order countermeasures. It presumes good faith on all sides. It is most definitely NOT designed to permanently sideline a criminal &/or traitorous POTUS who is dismantling the Republic – the remedy for that is impeachment. This is obvious, because the barrier to impeachment (majority of HoR) and removal (2/3 of Senate) is lower than for a temporary remedy by means of the 25th Amendment (2/3 of both houses).
@Barbara: My dad had an emergency double bypass — his heart stopped during the angioplasty procedure — and it made a huge and very positive difference to him. He lived another 24 years in excellent health and then three more in gradual decline before he passed away at almost 94. I’m sorry about your mom’s experience but cardiac surgery is so advanced now, I honestly can’t see why anyone would avoid it.
@Sloane Ranger: Yes, he did, although most people don’t realize it because the Welsh influence is more obvious.
His “smile” looks like his dog. Doesn’t look like either one is enjoying themselves.
@schrodingers_cat: Very good family friends from my dad’s Navy days have a very interesting marriage. He’s full Norwegian. She’s full Swedish. They both freely admit this NEVER would have happened back in the old countries.
@Roger Moore: Many attempts have been made to show some kind of relation between Euskera (Basque) and, well, any language. The prevailing theory right now is that Basque was a language that pre-dated the coming of the Indo-Europeans to the continent and somehow managed to hang on. But yeah, it definitely is its own little duck.
@SRW1: True, it getting close to fire season out here in the west.
I’m part Finn: my Grandma Aili did the first English translation of the Kalevala :) we are also prone to black depression, and make amazing fearless rally car drivers. I live in Vermont, and refuse ever to get snow tires because I would really rather be driving my Subaru sideways :D
Also, Finland is home to amazing black metal and techno subcultures like Suomisaundi psytrance :)
Good luck with everything!
I’ve stated before that I’ve had both hands/wrists, luckily at different times, in casts. I didn’t find it to be that bad, the major issue was with the dominant hand, trying to figure out how to write. And both of them had my hand rotated back as far as they would go. Like any cast the shower/washing part was fun.
J R in WV
So. That’s why Sweden is so popular for vacations — sybarites, and over-sexed too !!!
@Yutsano: My great-grandfather, an immigrant from Sweden, married a woman from a family that had immigrated from Norway years before. At one point, my ggf ran into some financial trouble and got no help from his reasonably well off in-laws. Years later, one of my grandfather’s sisters asked one of her pure Norwegian aunts why no help had been offered. The response was “Well, [_____] was a Swede, you know.”
He came from the part of southern Sweden that was Skåneland (or Eastern Denmark) from about 900 – 1658. Danish or a dialect thereof was then suppressed as was Danish culture. Scandinavia has a really complex history.
@immanentize: sokath, his eyes OPEN!
@Omnes Omnibus: My great-great-grandmother was from Skåneland (Degeberga Parish). She came over in 1882 and immediately married a Norwegian. They did not approve of their German son-in-law.