Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

I really should read my own blog.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

75% of people clapping liked the show!

Bark louder, little dog.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Stand up, dammit!

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

We are learning that “working class” means “white” for way too many people.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment / Impeach the Motherfucker! / Self Impeaching

Self Impeaching

by | 192 Comments

This post is in: 

Trump just word sharted all over the White House lawn, telling China to investigate the Bidens and admitting he asked Ukraine to do the same. Not the smartest politics:

Reader Interactions

192Comments

  1. 1.

    Gravenstone

    Just saw the banner headline on CNN about the China ask. Stupid motherfucker isn’t saying the quiet parts out loud, he’s now screaming them.

  2. 2.

    Betty Cracker

    Maybe it’s a disruptive new impeachment defense — keep openly committing impeachable acts so the committee is unable to complete a draft of impeachment articles.

  3. 3.

    dr. bloor

    Why not? Doubling down on something until it’s the new normal has worked well for him so far, and the media is typically eager to help out.

  5. 5.

    Frankensteinbeck

    It’s not just that Trump thinks he’s always right. This is like with the concentration camps. He sees what he’s doing as morally good, and cannot grasp that anybody really thinks differently. I mean, he’s proving that his enemies are the real criminals, right? He’s bringing the truth to the American people and clearing his name that was unjustly smeared! He’s royally pissed that his assistants insisted he hide how he’s saving America, and now is royally pissed that he’s not being publicly praised for it as he deserves.

  10. 10.

    Droppy

    Is this a person who wants to get tossed out? He’d like to quit but won’t, so he’s decided to provoke the response so he can be rid of the job and be angry about it and hold rallies with his beloved rubes and shout all he wants since President Pence will pardon him as part of the deal. Let’s get on with it, then work on impeaching Pence…

  12. 12.

    mad citizen

    Was sharing some of the news with my wife the other night, and kind of out of the blue she said “He’ll go to Russia”. Yes please. If Putin will have him. Please, the whole family should migrate there.

    The disgrace to our nation has been immense.

  15. 15.

    Yarrow

    @Chyron HR:
    “When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.”

    @mad citizen: He can’t go to Russia as president. Air Force One crew won’t fly him there. They work for the United States, not Trump. Maybe if he resigns or is impeached. Not sure how that would work at that point.

  16. 16.

    Droppy

    Here’s a happy thought – if Pence becomes president and appoints a new VP the choice has to be approved by both the house and senate – so it can’t be someone the dems in the house won’t approve – maybe the house could pull a Mitch McConnel and not approve anyone at all since it is almost an election year, etc.

  18. 18.

    SFAW

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe it’s a disruptive new impeachment defense — keep openly committing impeachable acts so the committee is unable to complete a draft of impeachment articles.

    Exactly. The Constitution does NOT talk about “Gish Galloping high crimes and misdemeanors” (nor “Trump Traitor Trotting high crimes and misdemeanors”), so therefore he CANNOT BE IMPEACHED!! Game, set, and touchdown, libtard!

  19. 19.

    Leto

    @Betty Cracker: “Please proceed, Mr. President. Wait… no… no… stop, seriously. How the hell are we supposed to write the articles when he keeps going?!?!”

    @Yarrow: I seem to remember he owned an airline, Shart Force One. I’m sure he can ask one the Russian flight crew members to “take him home”, after the Marine helicopter drops him off at Shitminster. The first presidential library in Moscow should be interesting.

  20. 20.

    trollhattan

    @Droppy:
    I don’t think he initially even wanted the job, campaigning for the copious free publicity and to put his thumb in Obama’s eye. Now that he has the job it’s his Precious and his ego does not tolerate the idea of anybody removing him–that’s his decision and damnit, no Democrat has a say in what he does. If baby Jesus hates us and he gets term 2, he will expend all his energies into restoring unlimited presidential terms, “just like that guy in the wheelchair.”

  22. 22.

    Ryan

    Nobody puts Baby in a corner! You know that reporter’s question he couldn’t answer yesterday about when he wanted to get out of Ukraine really got to him.

  23. 23.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @oldgold:

    Trump is doing this to “normalize” it.

    I doubt it. Trump’s Razor, which has been VERY reliable, has been that he’s just a bumbling asshole doing what he wants. He’s not that strategic. Still, he has abuser’s instincts, and it doesn’t have to be a conscious strategy, just a habit formed because it has always worked.

    @Droppy:

    Is this a person who wants to get tossed out? He’d like to quit but won’t

    No way. He has shit fits at suggestions he might lose the job. Absolute screaming tantrums. He may hate the job, but keeping it is vitally important to him.

  25. 25.

    Leto

    @Droppy: I would LOL so hard… and when they cry about Dems “obstructing”, the single answer back from any Dem member should be: MERRICK FUCKING GARLAND.

  26. 26.

    JPL

    @Droppy: They’ll put up Nikki Haley and the dems will then have to consider whether or not they want to confirm the first female VP

  27. 27.

    SFAW

    @Droppy:

    I know you mean well, but he definitely does NOT want to get tossed; nor for that matter, does he want to leave. He’s quite happy having near-unlimited (in his “mind”) power, and does not want to give that up. In fact, he’d be quite happy to be anointed god-emperor-for-life.

  28. 28.

    NotMax

    ‘You’re not the boss of me! No one is the boss of me! I’m going to run with scissors in BOTH hands!”

  29. 29.

    Ryan

    I think Schiff can skip that whole investigation into the whistleblower, except for the classification of the preznit’s conversations of course.

  32. 32.

    chopper

    @SFAW:

    it says HIGH crimes and misdemeanors. trump was not under the influence of drugs when he committed any of the crimes so NO COLLUSION LIBTARDS

  34. 34.

    Gravenstone

    @Yarrow: They can breach Russian airspace just long enough to chuck him and his retinue out the cargo hatch and I’d be entirely cool with it.

  36. 36.

    Kent

    I honestly think at this point that Trump wants to “pull a Palin” and walk away from the job but can’t figure out how to actually do it and profit at the same time. That’s basically what he’s always done his entire “career”. He starts something, shits all over it completely, then walks away leaving wreckage, bankruptcy, and lawsuits in his wake to start something entirely new and “better”

    He’s like a rat trapped in a maze of his own making, with his feral eyes darting this way and that. Pushing against the walls trying to find the exit that doesn’t exist.

  38. 38.

    rikyrah

    This segment has that famous Watergate Speech by Barbara Jordan.

    Clinton sees echoes of Nixon impeachment process in Trump’s

    Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton talks with Rachel Maddow about similarities in the Richard Nixon impeachment process she worked on in 1974, and the Donald Trump impeachment inquiry, noting that Nixon’s impeachment was such a clear abuse of power that even Republicans supported his impeachment.

  39. 39.

    Leto

    @Elizabelle: They are, but as a few here said: when the dam breaks, it’s all going to flood out at once. Plus Trumpov seems to be just losing it even faster. That’s probably because any of the previous “checks” he had (which, honestly, they were that effective to begin with) have been eliminated so it’s just straight lizard brain id that we’re now witnessing.

  40. 40.

    NotMax

    @Elizabelle

    Political bullet train.

    Remembering when a few here were saying things along the line of “What possible difference does it make if it’s a designated impeachment investigation?”

  42. 42.

    scav

    In five minutes he’ll be insisting it’s ALL HERESAY AND 2nd or 3rd (APPROPRIATELY BIG) HAND PERFECT LACK OF EVIDENCE and of course FAKE NEWS!

    (on the upside, can we hope for a few stokeouts when cultists discover they themselves are now the witleblower overhearing phone calls that didn’t happen? nah — yogis of contradictory facts they are.)

  43. 43.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Betty Cracker: “you sound a little Bidenesque”… from the one-time MTV almost-but-never-was from thirty years ago

    Biden is a lifelong teetotaler because of a family history of alcoholism.

  45. 45.

    hells littlest angel

    @Kent: He’s probably on the phone with Mnuchin right now, demanding that he have enough hundred dollar bills printed up to fill two suitcases.

  46. 46.

    Leto

    @Betty Cracker: Jeebus. “YES, I LIE TO THE PRESS! ALL THE TIME!” *immediate Fox News booking* And the people laughing at him in the background… quality hires, all around.

  47. 47.

    Kent

    @JPL:

    @Droppy: They’ll put up Nikki Haley and the dems will then have to consider whether or not they want to confirm the first female VP

    Problem with your scenario is that “They’ll” is doing WAY WAY to much lifting.

    EDIT…sorry, misunderstood your post. You were talking about Pence not Trump. That would be unchartered territory. Another consideration is that with no VP in place there is no president of the Senate and no tie-breaking vote there. I’m not sure how that would work. But would be one more reason for the Dems to play hardball and not roll over and approve anyone.

  48. 48.

    hells littlest angel

    @NotMax: Remembering when a few here were saying things along the line of “What possible difference does it make if it’s a designated impeachment investigation?”

    Thank you.

  50. 50.

    Cacti

    Does anyone foresee a scenario where Trump asks for asylum at the Russian Embassy? I wouldn’t rule out anything at this point.

  52. 52.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Yarrow: My bet is he will go to Mar-a-Lago, lock himself his room and tweet out how is he is still president and was robbed until they talk about sending the US Marshalls after him, at which point Trump will charter a plane that ends up in Moscow.

    Not sure Putin would take Trump though since that would make the US Russia’s enemy for ever and ever and that really doesn’t seem to be Putin’s goal (for example the Chines have made it clear that view Siberia as rightly part of China)

  53. 53.

    Yarrow

    @Cacti: Won’t be allowed to while he’s President. Secret Service will deem it unsafe and we won’t be allowed to go there.

  54. 54.

    Yarrow

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: If he’s locked in a room at Mar-a-Lago he can charter a plane but he’s got to get from the room to the plane. With US Marshalls surrounding the property I don’t think he’ll make it there.

  56. 56.

    MattF

    @Cacti: When they start digging trenches and building bunkers at Mar-a-Lago, it’ll be disguised as ‘improving’ the golf course.

  58. 58.

    Elizabelle

    Is anyone talking about 25th Amendment territory yet?

    Although we have to get Pence out. (And the leak about aide on the Ukraine (?) call was a preemptive strike for that. From the White House, but maybe from the IC, as well.)

  59. 59.

    The Dangerman

    @Droppy:

    Let’s get on with it, then work on impeaching Pence…

    Let’s impeach Pence first so we end up with President Pelosi.

    Of course, we would need cleanup crews for all the heads that would explode, but maybe it could be a twofer and they could rake the forests at the same time to prevent wildfires.

  61. 61.

    rikyrah

    UP.TO.HIS.EYEBALLS.

    Report implicates VP Pence in intensifying Trump scandal
    10/03/19 08:00 AM
    By Steve Benen

    ………………….

    The timeline of events paints an exceedingly unflattering picture. We know that Trump personally intervened to delay U.S. aid to Ukraine, which was desperate for the American assistance. We also know that Trump soon after had a telephone meeting with Zelenksy in which the Ukrainian leader stressed the significance of the aid package, only to hear his American counterpart say in response, “I would like you to do us a favor, though.”

    Trump’s wish list included, among other things, Ukraine taking law-enforcement action to undermine Joe Biden ahead of the 2020 election.

    We now also know that in the wake of that conversation, it was Mike Pence who spoke with Zelenksy in person, reiterating Trump’s expectations.

    That’s not a great position for the vice president to find himself in. Trump’s actions are likely to lead to his impeachment, and it now appears Pence may have done something quite similar.

    One of the most striking things about the Washington Post’s report on this isn’t just the top-line revelation, but also the behind-the-scenes drama – because reading the article, it seems clear that there are factions inside the White House, one of which is eager to drag Pence into this mess, and one of which is scrambling to keep the vice president out of it.

    The trouble with the defense from Team Pence is how underwhelming it is.

    The Post article noted, for example, that officials close to the vice president “insist that he was unaware of Trump’s efforts to press Zelensky for damaging information about Biden and his son.” Or put another way, Pence told the Ukrainian leader that U.S. aid was on hold, and Pence pressed Zelensky about “corruption” concerns, but the Indiana Republican didn’t fully understand the big picture.

    There are problems with the defense. A top member of Pence’s team, for example, was on the Trump/Zelensky call. Pence also had access to the transcript of that call soon after it took place. The Post also reported, “White House officials said that Pence probably would have received the detailed notes of the president’s call in his briefing book on July 26,” the day after the phone meeting.

    What’s more, the detailed call summary was likely part of the briefing materials Pence received before his in-person meeting with the Ukrainian president. The article added, “Officials close to Pence contend that he traveled to Warsaw for a meeting with Zelensky on Sept. 1 probably without having read — or at least fully registered — the transcript of Trump’s July 25 call with the leader of Ukraine.”

    I did appreciate the use of the word “registered” – as if Pence saw the document showing Trump pressing Zelensky on Biden, but the vice president didn’t fully get it.

    Team Pence will have to do better than this.

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    @Yarrow:
    I would call Trump flying out of the US and into exile aboard Air Force 1 a Beeblebrox manoeuvre. There: now it has a name, should one be required. I’m fairly sure that at some point, as that double-scoop of Peach Mint looms ever larger over his head, he’s going to start talking wistfully about doing a Beeblebrox Manoeuvre.

  64. 64.

    Mr. Kite

    I found it interesting that Putin said he’s fine releasing transcripts of their calls. Not sure who he’s trolling now.

  66. 66.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Yarrow: I am assuming they Impeach Trump, then Trump sues biggly, ’cause Trump, and that has to go the SCOTUS who rules, yes Congress can impeach, Then there is muddling over Pence sworn in an lead up to Federal and State charges against Trump, which will give Trump a chance to bail.

    We’ve never impeached a president so it will be confusing what happens afterwards.

    @NotMax: Yes, no Quarter Pounders for Trump.

  69. 69.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Mr. Kite: Putin is trolling the United States, laughing at all of us, including Mitt “The Soviet Union is our greatest geopolitical foe” Romney, Lindsey Graham and the ghost of John McCain.

  70. 70.

    Kent

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Not Russia. What is the current refuge of choice for deposed Latin American and African dictators with their suitcases full of cash and gold bars? My guess is he’ll use someone else’s cash to build Trump Hotel Riyadh and hole up in Saudi Arabia. After all, Mohammad bin Salman owes Trump big time for rescuing him from the Kashoggi affair.

  72. 72.

    TaMara (HFG)

    Someone on another site said that every time he starts talking about Biden, a reporter should call out, you mean the story that has been investigated and found to be false.

    I so want this to happen. Because I want to see him meltdown hourly.

  73. 73.

    Leto

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: the reality shows killed the video star. If I knew that The Real World was going to lead to all of this…

    @MattF: they have to keep the money flowing as long as they can. They won’t stop until they literally have to… and not even then.

  74. 74.

    the Conster

    @NotMax:

    Calling it impeachment hasn’t compelled the WH to comply with the House’s oversight requests. Calling for an impeachment inquiry based on the idiot’s release of his own memo of conversation, and headed by Schiff has just made the criminal in chief crazier and more out of control. Nothing has changed in the courts.

  76. 76.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Gin & Tonic: he hears good things about Sochi, from a friend, and if they let him pretend he’s building a luxury hotel and casino and can get him satellite TV, cheeseburgers dipped in mayonnaise and Ivanka dancing in a bikini, what more does he need?

  78. 78.

    Leto

    @khead: Someone needs to do a photoshop rendition of that scene with Pelosi as Cruise and shitbird as Jack. Personally I think that would be hilarious.

  79. 79.

    patrick II

    @mad citizen:
    Putin won’t let him go to Russia. Putin’s complicity would be too apparent. It’s one thing to let Snowden go there, another to demonstrate that Trump was indeed your man, and the confrontation that would ensue. Unless Putin wants further confrontation or figures, after Trump, the U.S. isn’t up to it.

  80. 80.

    sdhays

    @Elizabelle: The 25th Amendment process is like impeachment, but harder and depends on the patriotism and independence of the people he has installed as Cabinet Secretaries. The only way it becomes potentially useful is if President Liddle’ Hands suffers a stroke, doesn’t die, but is physically unable to continue as President and also incapable of resigning. And even then, I think they’re more likely to leave him as “President” with “Pounce” as Acting President through the 2020 election.

  81. 81.

    sdhays

    @patrick II: I think he’ll be too slow to run in the end anyway. He doesn’t think he did anything wrong and he’s never suffered real consequences. And he doesn’t like sleeping on a bed that he’s used to.

  84. 84.

    Cacti

    @the Conster:

    Calling it impeachment hasn’t compelled the WH to comply with the House’s oversight requests. Calling for an impeachment inquiry based on the idiot’s release of his own memo of conversation, and headed by Schiff has just made the criminal in chief crazier and more out of control. Nothing has changed in the courts.

    Calling it an impeachment inquiry means guilt can be inferred from failure to comply, no courts necessary.

  85. 85.

    Elizabelle

    @sdhays: Wouldn’t you love to be a fly on the wall WRT Ivanka and Jared? They must be walking around with Margaret Keane eyes. (Big Eyes.)

    Or maybe they’re walking around like Lady McBeth. Out, damned spot.

  87. 87.

    rikyrah

    @khead:
    Second time today that I’ve seen that pop culture reference.

    Someone else said that Pence was trying to be invisible like Burt from Soap….
    THAT took me back…I get these visions of Pence snapping his fingers…LOL

  88. 88.

    Elizabelle

    @Mr. Kite:

    Have you SEEN this cabinet?

    Point made. Most of them should (literally) be in prison too.

    However, if CNN started talking about 25th Amendment, imagine the Trumpruptions to come.

  89. 89.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Elizabelle: on the phone with Papa Kushner, “Daddy, fix this!”

    or… I always thought JarVanka was all in on the Pence choice, but the new book on Pence suggests whey wanted Gingrich, cause they think he’s tough and smart (stupid person’s idea of etc) and Pence was the non-Christie fallback…. maybe they’re calling Newtie for advice

  90. 90.

    The Lodger

    @patrick II: If Trump isn’t indeed Putin’s man, someone had better tell Russian media. It’s been conventional wisdom (and the foundation of a lot of jokes) on their TV for a year or more.

  91. 91.

    Just Chuck

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    This is like with the concentration camps

    Which are still open and operating almost completely unimpeded. The entire Trump crime cartel knows that we’ll just “move forward” in 2020, so they’re running out the clock.

  92. 92.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    oh and.. Hunter Biden what?

    im O’Brien @ TimOBrien
    Cadre, a real estate startup partly-owned by Jared Kushner, is seeking an investment of at least $100 million from a private fund backed by Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

  93. 93.

    cain

    @patrick II:
    I dont think there will be a confrontation. Even at that stage, Republicans will cover. They are still on Putin’s payroll. In fact, things will be even more crazy as Republicans claim there is nothing wrong with Trump absconding to Russia for a personal vacation. He’s earned it!

  94. 94.

    SFAW

    @chopper:

    it says HIGH crimes and misdemeanors. trump was not under the influence of drugs when he committed any of the crimes so NO COLLUSION LIBTARDS

    And all the time, it was staring me right in the face. How could I have missed that?

    And, while you might not win the Intertubez for the day, you’re in the running

  96. 96.

    jl

    @Betty Cracker: I wouldn’t do well in the Trump administration as a media defense talking head. When I get drunk, I tend to fall asleep very quickly. Wouldn’t make a dramatic show for the TV machine.

  97. 97.

    cain

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Won’t matter I suspect. The Hunter Biden thing has more legs because it allows our media to do “both sides!” They’ll use this to counterbalance the nearly 30-40 illegal things that Trump’s kids are up to. It’s all the same. See?

  98. 98.

    sdhays

    @Elizabelle: I don’t believe that anyone in that family has sufficient self-awareness to comprehend how screwed they are when Daddy is no longer protected by the Executive Branch.

  100. 100.

    Kent

    Strangest thing about this whole affair is the complete projection.

    Whatever Hunter Biden did to cash in on daddy’s name absolutely pales in comparison to what the Trump spawn are currently doing.

    Democrats should be answering every question about Hunter Biden with the response. Oh, so we are now investigating the business interests of presidential children? If that is the new standard then it is going to be an interesting year for the Trump clan.

  101. 101.

    jl

    @rikyrah: I remember reading an Indiana politics reporter at the beginning of the Trump administration who said Pence’s MO is to work behind the scenes, but pretend in public that he didn’t quite understand what was going on. Reporter said doubtful it would work on national stage for four years.

    I don admit that Pence is good at almost always maintaining a ‘Well, they told me to do this, whatever this is, I’m not sure’ face in pix and video clips.

  102. 102.

    bystander

    I liked the line, if Pence calls his wife “Mother” what’s that make him? So when I saw the tag Impeach the Motherfucker, I thought, Yeah. And twitler, too.

  103. 103.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @cain: it won’t, because beyond just the media trump corruption is baked in for the lumpenmittel. The Fredos go on TV and say “Can you imagine if we were trading on our father’s position?” without a glimmer of self-awareness.

    Just pointing it out to my fellow choir members

  104. 104.

    dmsilev

    This morning’s chuckle: White House officials weigh appeal to Democrats in GOP districts to stop impeachment of Trump

    White House officials intent on stopping the House from impeaching President Trump are considering appealing to moderate Democrats in Republican districts to stand with the president, a pursuit at odds with fresh political attacks from the Trump campaign and the Republican National Committee. The nascent outreach campaign would target some of the 31 Democrats from congressional districts Trump won in 2016, many of whom ran on rebuilding infrastructure, improving trade deals and lowering the cost of prescription drugs, according to multiple officials familiar with the strategy. The officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk freely, said the appeal would be based on these Democrats’ 2018 election promises to work with the president — accompanied with a warning that impeachment would hamper possible legislative victories.

    Yeah, good luck with that one.

  106. 106.

    Amir Khalid

    What exactly does Trump want China to investigate re the Bidens? Is Hunter even involved in anything there?

  107. 107.

    artem1s

    @oldgold:

    Trump is doing this to “normalize” it.

    I’m not entirely convinced he’s that clever. I think he believes that’s the way Congressional hearings get started. He’s trying to make Benghazi happen and has no earthly idea that you need a stooge like Issa to get the ball rolling. This is what happens when you install a puppet who has no earthly idea how governing works. Darth Cheney’s sock puppet W, was worse than Dump in so many ways. But primarily because those thieves knew what they were doing, why they were doing it, and how to cover it up. This asshat is just flailing again, thinking he can make something happen thru the force of his will, just like he does with his ‘businesses’.

  109. 109.

    Kent

    If China really wanted to fuck with Trump’s re-election in broad daylight they could respond:

    Mr. President. We did investigate the Biden’s trip to China in 2013 and found nothing wrong. They were on the up and up.

    On the other hand. Since we are investigating presidential children now, we went ahead and looked into the affairs of Jared and Ivanka and found all manner of problematic corruption that needs to be looked into further. We will be happy to employ the services of the Chinese secret police and investigative services to do that for you.

  110. 110.

    PaulWartenberg

    There is nothing that angers up not only patriotic but all undecided American voters than the public knowledge of foreign powers meddling in OUR affairs.

    It’s an ill-remembered scandal today, but back in Grover Cleveland’s first term during his re-election chances the British Ambassador Sacksville-West foolishly answered a letter from a “British natural citizen voting for his first time in the colonies” about which candidate to support. Sacksville went with Cleveland… and the letter-writer turned out to be a dirty-tricks handler for the Republicans (yes, this is how far back they’ve been cheating) who released the letter to the papers implying that Cleveland was a puppet of the British. The Democrats subsequently lost the Irish vote in New York and Indiana, which lost Cleveland the election. It’s on the Wiki page as The Murchison Letter Scandal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_letter

    So here’s trump, openly calling on foreign powers – some of them on the opposite side of our foreign affairs, originally Russia in 2016 and now China for 2020 – to “expose” his likely Democratic candidate Biden based on debunked conspiracy bullshit. And we’re seeing the response: most voters – including a shocking number of Republican voters although not a majority of them – are agreeing what trump is doing is impeachable. trump and the GOP keep forgetting they really won in 2016 because they confused enough Independent voters – who went 46-42 for trump – but if he is losing them 45 percent to 16 percent (and I doubt the undecided will flip to trump’s favor the deeper he goes into this shit) he’s going to lose the battleground states (PA, WI, MI, even OH and FL and maybe even TX and GA now) in 2020.

  111. 111.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    in which I allow myself a brief flutter of optimism, from Greg Sargent

    The three leading Democrats are all beating @realDonaldTrump among registered voters in Ohio.
    In 2016, Trump won Ohio by 9 points.

    Now:
    Biden 53-47
    Warren 52-48
    Sanders 53-47

  113. 113.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @JPL: If I’m Nonna Pelosi** in that situation, I’m lining up House Democrats to hold out for a caretaker VPOTUS who would promise not to be a candidate for President in 2020. (And yes, I know that a GOP promise isn’t worth a pitcher of warm piss … but if the Democrats refuse to confirm anyone who’s been involved in the current misAdministration or defending it in public, the batshit-insane wing of the Global Oligarchy Promoters will take care of that on their own.)

    ** Which dankseidoG I’m not, Mayor Tommy‘s little girl is so much better at this than I could ever be.

  114. 114.

    Martin

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    He sees what he’s doing as morally good, and cannot grasp that anybody really thinks differently.

    Empathy is the ability to recognize that others have feelings other than your own. It’s a really critical component to morality. Without it, you can torture other people because you’re unable to recognize that they are feeling any discomfort so long as you’re enjoying what you’re doing.

    Trump will keep doing this. He feels wronged, and therefore everyone else must also feel like he’s been wronged, and if he sees evidence that you don’t feel that way – because you keep publishing stuff that demonstrates that he’s not wronged, then you must be corrupted in some way. How could you be doing these things when you certainly must feel that he’s been wronged?

    Nixon at least was able to recognize his situation in an objective way and take corrective action. Granted, that action was to break a whole different set of laws, but it was rational. Trump just can’t. He has no ability to consider how things might look from our perspective. And because of that this is going to continue to spiral out of control. It’s also why I still contend he’ll be carried out of the WH. He can’t cope with this. He would have been forced into treatment or homelessness decades ago if not for his wealth.

  115. 115.

    MJS

    I understand that to someone with a grasp of reality, Trump asking China to investigate Biden appears to be absolutely bonkers. But in Trump’s syphilitic mind, he can simply claim that he’s looking to root out “corruption”, and so long as he’s not offering anything in return for that investigation, it’s all on the up-nd-up.

    Obviously that is not true, but expect to hear that line of defense from all of his supporters.

  116. 116.

    jl

    @artem1s: Trump is addicted to watching Fox News and reading insane reactionary conspiracy theory tweets. It’s impossible to tell where his delusions end and his conscious dishonest scheming begins. And Trump has been successful normalizing his dishonest swindles for decades, there is nothing new and special about doing it from the WH.

    Impossible and dangerous to try to figure out what’s going on in Trump’s head. It is like staring into a combo abyss and maelstrom for too long. Not only stares back, but reaches out and sucks you in. Up side is that Trump’s penchant for spilling the beans is very rapidly heading in the direction of making frank and heart felt confessions. And one of his favorite strategies of charging critics with exactly what he has done is getting more transparent. A lot more evidence of bigger and more corrupt payoffs from China to Trump than anything for Hunter Biden.

    Politifact article on Hunter Biden and China:
    Donald Trump’s accusations about Hunter Biden and a payout from China: A closer look
    politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/oct/02/donald-trumps-accusations-about-hunter-biden-and-c/

  117. 117.

    PaulWartenberg

    @mad citizen:

    If trump gets his civil war during the impeachment process, he’ll flee first to a state where he’ll be safest – maybe Florida since the Republicans control most of the local political/law enforcement – and try to direct his “war” from there. It all depends on 1) how the states will react to trump’s defense, 2) which way the military and national guards lean.

    If trump loses the entire United States – or at least the entire military and state-level law enforcement – he’ll flee to the nearest nation that doesn’t have extradition with the U.S. that’s willing to take him. Problem is the entire Western Hemisphere is covered, the closest he can get are the western African nations of Morocco or Western Sahara or Algeria.

  118. 118.

    Kay

    Trip Gabriel
    @tripgabriel
    ·43m
    The NYT is co-moderating the next Dem debate. Help National Editor
    @marclacey
    decide what to ask

    What a shame. Here come the “clouds” and narrative bullshit they specialize in. Can’t we just get actual political reporters?

  119. 119.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @NotMax:

    Remembering when a few here were saying things along the line of “What possible difference does it make if it’s a designated impeachment investigation?”

    So far, I don’t see any difference. What has changed is that Trump got caught openly admitting to a crime so bad that everyone who even pretends to be non-partisan accepts that he did it. The impeachment is a result, not a cause, of what’s going on.

  121. 121.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Frankensteinbeck: I don’t think Trump is even capable of perceiving any difference between his personal interest, the national interest or the absolute moral good. Everything to him is about whether he, personally, is being treated fairly, which means he gets what he wants and everyone expresses their love for him. Adam has described his pitch as “America will be treated fairly” but if there’s no difference between America and himself, it all comes back to the same thing.

  122. 122.

    MattF

    @dmsilev: The Hold-My-Beer Machiavellis in the White House have somehow missed the fact that Pelosi is in charge here. If there ever was an opportunity to stop her with political maneuvering– which, IMO, there was not– it is certainly not now.

  123. 123.

    Martin

    @oldgold: He’s not. He’s just lashing out as he always has. Effectively, Americans cannot objectively assess crimes by authority. They’ve always operated under such a completely different set of rules that we assume anything they do out in the open must be legal. It’s only when they show some sense of guilt by covering up their actions that we clue in that they’re doing something wrong. If they never show guilt, then they’re good.

    Trump truly believes he’s doing nothing wrong. He’s not covering this stuff up, his staff who can see that it’s wrong are. Trump ordered the memo of the call released. His staff cleaned it up best they could. This is just who he is. Shoot them in the leg. Throw them in a moat filled with alligators. Take away their kids. Ally with North Korea. It’s all good. It’s not a plan. It’s what genuinely amoral people look like. He’s always been rich enough to be surrounded by people that would protect him. He’s simply outgunned now.

  124. 124.

    Marcopolo

    So I haven’t read the thread & don’t know if folks have already pushed for this but every BJer needs to call their Rep & Senators today and tell them they think Trump needs to be impeached & removed from office. That he is now committing crimes in public. Thank your D Reps & Sens who are already supporting this. Tell your R Reps to get off their a$$es & defend the Constitution. Do this every day. Prod and/or coerce friends & family to also make these calls. Ask all of them to recruit one more caller.

    If they need a reason, just tell them asking a foreign gov’t for election assistance is illegal. Remind them Trump is still negotiating our trade deal w/ China & he just asked them for a favor in public @ a White House presser—to investigate the Bidens. Does this mean we don’t get a trade deal if China doesn’t cooperate? Does this mean that the US will get a worse trade deal if they do? Furthermore, China is an authoritarian regime which has a corrupt ruling elite, no democratic traditions, and regularly violates the civil rights of its citizens for the benefit of the powerful so does anyone really think they have the capacity to fairly investigate anyone?

    Here’s the Congressional switchboard # 202-224-3121

    We are now all living in fucknutsville.

  125. 125.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Martin: and @Matt McIrvin: and @Martin:
    I agree. I’ll make one note that because he has no empathy, he doesn’t assume the people criticizing him are ‘corrupt’, he assumes they’re mean, petty, dishonest assholes. At least half of what he does is motivated by hatred and spite, so that must be the motivation of his enemies.

  126. 126.

    Leto

    @A Ghost To Most: “Murderer demands police halt investigation until murderer has more control over the process!”

    Never ever ask, are these people this fucking dumb? Because yes, yes they are. Also catching up on thread after delicious, delicious pizza.

  127. 127.

    cain

    @PaulWartenberg:

    If trump loses the entire United States – or at least the entire military and state-level law enforcement – he’ll flee to the nearest nation that doesn’t have extradition with the U.S. that’s willing to take him. Problem is the entire Western Hemisphere is covered, the closest he can get are the western African nations of Morocco or Western Sahara or Algeria.

    Forced to go to “shit hole” countries. Yeah, they won’t take him given the shit that Miller has been doing. I suspect he’ll end up in Israel or SA. He’ll be bitching about the place the entire time.

  128. 128.

    Gravenstone

    @artem1s:

    you need a stooge like Issa to get the ball rolling

    Mr. Nunes, Mr. Devin Nunes, to the White (supremacist) courtesy phone please.

  129. 129.

    Hoodie

    @Martin: I’d say Nixon vs. Trump is a good illustration of the difference between narcissism (which everyone has to some degree, Nixon and most politicians to a relatively high degree) and narcissistic personality disorder. Trump can’t keep his narcissism in check, i.e., he’s disordered and has few if any mechanisms to keep from going off the rails. Nixon was generally able to keep himself in at least a degree of psychic order, even at the end of his presidency. Nixon had problems with depression and alcohol abuse and was under a lot more stress than Trump. That doesn’t excuse Nixon’s actions, but Trump doesn’t even have those excuses. This all comes from inside him and his diseased mind.

  130. 130.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Seth Abramson @ SethAbramson
    13h13 hours ago
    Don’t sleep on the Giuliani-Manafort news. Trump has told friends that Manafort is the only man who could take him down, and that remains true even post-conviction because Manafort never told the full truth to the feds. And now we learn Trump and Manafort’s attorneys are talking?

    are there still state charges hanging over Manafort? you used to hear about NYS and the state of VA going after him, but that seems to have gone dormant in the coverage

  131. 131.

    cain

    @Gravenstone:

    Mr. Nunes, Mr. Devin Nunes, to the White (supremacist) courtesy phone please.

    For Nunes it’s a red courtesy phone with a sickle on it.

  132. 132.

    Gravenstone

    @PaulWartenberg:

    There is nothing that angers up not only patriotic but all undecided American voters than the public knowledge of foreign powers meddling in OUR affairs.

    2016 is holding for you on line 1.

  133. 133.

    khead

    @rikyrah:

    That’s a wonderful reference for me. Thank you. I was a kid when Soap first aired and it still holds up.

    Never knew Richard Mulligan won an Emmy in ’80.

  134. 134.

    Kent

    @PaulWartenberg: Saudi Arabia. There’s a reason why Trump went through all the trouble to rehabilitate MBS after the Kashoggi affair. He owes him now. Saudi Arabia is also becoming the refuge of choice for deposed African dictators now that they can’t flee to the south of France anymore. The Tunisian former dictator is hiding out there now.

  136. 136.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @cain:

    If trump loses the entire United States – or at least the entire military

    There is no way in Hell that Trump gets the military on his side in a civil war. The military is loyal to the system. The same reason nobody stopped Trump from getting the job will be the reason nobody will lift a finger to keep him in it once the law says he’s out. The military sure as Hell isn’t loyal to him personally. Neither is the Secret Service. If he legally stops being president for any reason and refuses to accept he’s not president, he will be removed from the White House by people whose attitude is “You’re not my boss anymore.”

  137. 137.

    joel hanes

    @Droppy:

    Is this a person who wants to get tossed out?

    This is a person who is incapable of controlling his own behavior, and who has never had to try.

  139. 139.

    Kent

    @cain: Won’t be Israel. They are not stupid and will be eager to cozy up to the next Dem administration. It will be Saudi Arabia. MBS owes him big time after the Kashoggi affair. Trump will get someone else to build Trump Hotel Riyadh and he will take over the top floor.

  140. 140.

    Kelly

    Trump these days reminds me of the videos of cars on Portland hills in a snowstorm. Wheels spinning, slowly sliding down bouncing off one parked car after another and another.

  142. 142.

    Groucho48

    @Cacti:

    Inferred by whom? Anyone who hasn’t already inferred it? Any Republican Senators? The NYT? And, if impeachment proceedings had started back even a month ago, none of this Ukraine stuff would have been included in the Articles.

    The WH and DoJ are still refusing to honor subpoenas. The process will still take just as long to drag through the courts. Is there any evidence at all the courts will decide differently just because the subpoenas are now part of an impeachment process.

    Ideally, I’d like to see the House process end right before the Senate has its summer recess. That would leave the Senate with the tough decision of suspending the recess, which means Rep Senators can’t go out and campaign, or, go on the recess and let Dems talk about the House Articles for weeks.

    We definitely don’t want the House process to be done by the end of the year. And, who knows how many more obviously impeachable offenses Trump will commit in the next few months?

  143. 143.

    jl

    Hunter Biden is, at least to me, a problem for Joe Biden that is a surprise. I had no idea about him. But Hunter Biden is in the mold or Billy Carter or Neil Bush, a wastrel relative who follows more successful family members and tries to get him main chance based on other’s work. It would be a minor political problem without Trump, but Trump is working it to engineer his own downfall. The real problem is the influence of access and big money in politics that makes investing in such people attractive to interested parties domestic and foreign.

    Trump family is in a much bigger league, for obvious reasons. Just based on the outrageous nepotism alone, Carter, Bush and Biden family just completely overmatched, they can’t compete. And then there is the money!

    Impossible to say whether Trump realizes he’ll be attacked because of his clearly corrupt behavior wrt his own family and this is conscious strategy, or it’s just instinct from his years of his standard fraud and crime MO. In any event, we’ll hear a lot of yelling that the Biden family corruption is the biggest, the best, the top, corruption in all of human history, Hunter Biden is multi-billionaire, and every country (if they were honest about it, which according to Trump thy are obviously not) open a major investigation in its own world historic Biden scandal.

    I think it’s instinct or Trump bizarre mental problems. Corporate media has been treating Trump family corruption with kid gloves. And it was always silly to get obsessed with Biden before real evidence he was a serious front runner. So, if this is a conscious rational strategy, why? Look at the risk return ratio from any rational perspective. Very self destructive behavior by Trump. But that is just my guess and probably I won’t put any more work into it.

  144. 144.

    patrick II

    @The Lodger:

    I know the Ruusians know, I was talking about being apparent to Trump true believers. But as someone points out, even that might not do it. He could lead a fighter squadron and attack Pearl Harbor and his true believers would be ok with it because its not really part of the U.S. anyway and traitor Obama was born there.

  145. 145.

    Betty Cracker

    My husband is home early and watching the news to catch up on the latest. The CNN anchors keep repeating that Trump asked Ukraine and China to investigate his political rival from the White House lawn, in a wondering tone, as if they can’t quite believe what they just saw and heard.

  146. 146.

    Fair Economist

    @Groucho48:

    Ideally, I’d like to see the House process end right before the Senate has its summer recess. That would leave the Senate with the tough decision of suspending the recess, which means Rep Senators can’t go out and campaign, or, go on the recess and let Dems talk about the House Articles for weeks.

    That’s – pretty clever. It also gives lots of time for extensive inquiry (which will be the most politically beneficial part for the country) and will make the hit on the Senators hard since it will happen during the re-election campaign.

  149. 149.

    Kent

    @Groucho48:

    Ideally, I’d like to see the House process end right before the Senate has its summer recess. That would leave the Senate with the tough decision of suspending the recess, which means Rep Senators can’t go out and campaign, or, go on the recess and let Dems talk about the House Articles for weeks.

    Yes and the White House will go along with this schedule by obstructing every subpoena and reqest for testimony so that the House is forced to drag it out this long. The more they obstruct the longer the process drags out.

  150. 150.

    sdhays

    @Kent: I don’t know that Israel “isn’t stupid” anymore. As long as Likud and its farther right coalition partners are running the government, they’re pretty much tied at the hip to the Republican Party. That was stupid and short-sighted and will be difficult to walk back because Israel’s entire trajectory demands the US letting them displace and kill Palestinians in increasingly brutal and blatant fashion. Democrats are much less likely to go along with that. And that’s why Netanyahu went all in on Romney and Trump.

  151. 151.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Leto: Heck, I remember when MTV wasn’t a part of standard cable packages and they had the whole “I want my MTV” campaign where you were supposed to ask your cable provider for it.

    In particular I hear that phrase in Mick Jagger’s voice.

    @Cacti: I’m seriously starting to think that. Once he realizes that his actual royal imperial person is destined for a courtroom, he’s going to Russia or North Korea for asylum.

  152. 152.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MattF: I don’t know. My only TV news is MSNBC, but the straight reporters they have on– mostly those from the Washington Post– are pretty consistently speaking in terms of “What the fuck?”, but their predecessors, especially those at the Washington Post– I’m looking at you, half worm-digested remains of David Broder and Bob “Norma Desmond” Woodward– have trained a good chunk of the public to believe that nothing is true or valid unless its ‘bipartisan’. That was the rationale behind McConnell’s strategy of total obstruction in 2009, back when trump was still a Democrat.

  153. 153.

    Mandalay

    @Cacti:

    Does anyone foresee a scenario where Trump asks for asylum at the Russian Embassy? I wouldn’t rule out anything at this point.

    Only you.

  156. 156.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The military is loyal to the system.

    There aren’t too many reassuring moments in this shitstorm, but I do remember one having to do with the military. It was after he’d sent troops down the border, he tried to give them rules of engagement that “if they throw rocks, you respond by killing them”.

    After giving that order, the officers on the ground told their soldiers, “That is an unlawful order and you will be tried for war crimes if you obey it.”

    So yeah, the military is not all in on obeying the Commander in Chief.

  158. 158.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @NotMax: Using the word “impeachment” had nothing to do with how the ground has shifted. The blatant abuse of power did that. The impeachment announcement followed the shift; it didn’t cause it.

  159. 159.

    MattF

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Reporters and commentators are exquisitely sensitive to shifts in conventional wisdom. I’m not saying it’s really happening now, but I also don’t possess that degree of part-per-billion sensitivity.

  160. 160.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That got me. I didn’t expect to get mad at that crack because I don’t support Biden or anything like that, yet still it got me instantly pissed off. “a little Bidenesque”. Those fuckers.

  161. 161.

    sherparick

    Trump has been his own press agent for 40 years and also he, his Dad, and the rest of the family have been breaking laws and getting away with it for his entire life time. Between Fred Trump and Roy Cohn he learned how to be a brazen law breaker (key is money donations to all the up and coming lawyer-politicians) in the New York real estate and New Jersey Casino development world. This from Sarah Kenzidor is so true.

    Sarah Kendzior
    ‏Verified account @sarahkendzior

    Trump doesn’t want to get caught and be punished, but he delights in being caught and going unpunished

  162. 162.

    Ruckus

    @Kent:
    Problem is that he’s at the top and knows that. He “knows” that this is as far as he can go. He has no credit or credibility anywhere in the world, the moment he’s not president. He has, as is his norm, shot for the moon, and hit dead center in the toilet bowl of life.

  165. 165.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @sherparick: @sherparick: Trump doesn’t want to get caught and be punished, but he delights in being caught and going unpunished

    A good point. Also, he enjoys nothing better than see his loudest critics turned into his squeakiest toadies, so golf with Lindsey Graham every weekend. I’m surprised Willard hasn’t been brought to the Rose Garden to read a statement declaring President Donald J Trump to be the smartest, kindest, most handsomest…

  166. 166.

    cain

    @Kent:

    @cain: Won’t be Israel. They are not stupid and will be eager to cozy up to the next Dem administration. It will be Saudi Arabia. MBS owes him big time after the Kashoggi affair. Trump will get someone else to build Trump Hotel Riyadh and he will take over the top floor.

    You assume that he will keep his properties. All his properties will be seized in the U.S. and likely in other countries. Trump Tower Riyadh will be the only property he has left. He will also be owing the Russians a lot of money. So yeah, he won’t be going anywhere. His children are also not going to be going anywhere as the Russians will want to collect on their debts.

  167. 167.

    cain

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    @Cacti: I’m seriously starting to think that. Once he realizes that his actual royal imperial person is destined for a courtroom, he’s going to Russia or North Korea for asylum.

    Remember, this guy and his underlings know a shit ton of security secrets. Russia would love to have them so that they can get whatever secrets we have to their advantage. It would be a shit show for national security and the Republican party would be in the center of it. I reckon if they go, Nunes will run too as will others who are on the take.

  168. 168.

    jl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe Mitt Romney is too dull for Trump, and therefor contemptible and featuring him the Trump reality show would not be a top or terrific choice. Trump wants only the top most terrific the best master thespians. Hence, Giuliani, Graham, Jordan, Ratcliffe, etc.

    @sherparick: “Trump doesn’t want to get caught and be punished, but he delights in being caught and going unpunished”

    Maybe Trump is frustrated since so much is allowed in the political world, with so little notice and not even much indication people think something’s wrong. he gets no satisfaction from the display of his crimes, so has to broadcast them louder and louder.

  169. 169.

    Dev Null

    @cain:

    … even more crazy as Republicans claim there is nothing wrong with Trump absconding to Russia for a personal vacation. He’s earned it!

    I’m OK with that, assuming that fleeing to Russia means that Trump is no longer president.

    What’s not to like?

  170. 170.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: “We’ve never impeached a president” –

    In fact the House of Representatives has – twice (Andrew Johnson in 1868, Bill Clinton 1998). The Senate has never convicted and removed an impeached President.

    It annoys the shit out of me that supposedly intelligent and politically sophisticated people keep getting this wrong, over and over and over and over again.

  171. 171.

    PaulWartenberg

    @Gravenstone:

    The problem is when trump begged in public for the Russians to dig up dirt on Hillary for him, the media treated it as a joke and moved on. It wasn’t until 2017 when the Trump Tower meeting of 2016 June was revealed that people realized Holy Shit trump and Russia were in cahoots.

    trump’s not even hiding it now, and the media’s not able to laugh it off either. THIS is serious shit.

  176. 176.

    Chris Johnson

    @Dev Null: The media going ‘oh thank goodness our long national nightmare is over’ and celebrating President Pence, who is every bit as much a Russian asset. That’s what not to like.

  177. 177.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Mandalay:

    And in that scenario, how would Trump actually get there?

    Be very specific.

    Russian Embassy in DC is on Wisconsin Ave. Rudy could drive him. Hmm, I see North Korea doesn’t appear to have one. So in that case he makes one of his “perfect” phone calls and begs for a private jet to be sent for him.

    How specific? Do you need the name of the cab company? Maybe it’s Uber, Rudy might be an Uber driver by then,

  178. 178.

    J R in WV

    @Droppy:

    …maybe the house could pull a Mitch McConnel and not approve anyone at all since it is almost an election year, etc.

    It (not having a Vice President for a time) would have been the standard prior to the passage of the 25th amendment, as there was no Constitutional path to replacing a V P before that passage.

  179. 179.

    Aleta

    @rikyrah: I wouldn’t be surprised if Pence goes with the proven strategy of powerful white guys. “I don’t recall.” “I have no memory of that.” “I was very busy at that time.” “To the best of my recollection I don’t believe I said that.” “It’s not written on my calendar.”

  181. 181.

    VeniceRiley

    He’ll turn over nothing and neither will his minions. The house will impeach. If it looks like the Senate will convict, he’ll get Pence to resign and dare a majority R senate to make President Pelosi a reality. That’s how he’ll get away with it, unless R senators are desperate for a President Pelosi to run against, and that might work out well for them!

  182. 182.

    J R in WV

    @WaterGirl:

    @Mr. Kite: Isn’t Mulvaney the entire cabinet right now?

    A real, and hard question is “Do Acting Cabinet secretaries get a vote on a 25th Amendment question?”

    Or are those positions empty and void for issues of the 25th Amendment?

    Is Trump smart enough to be aware of anything to do with the 25th Amendment, and to use a strategy revolving around empty Cabinet seats? I think not, but…

  183. 183.

    mrmoshpotato

    @A Ghost To Most:

    GOP minority calls for delay on Trump impeachment until Pelosi agrees to give White House more control over process.

    Do they think this is the Georgia governor’s race?

    P.S. Fuck Brian Kemp.

  185. 185.

    Dev Null

    @Chris Johnson:

    The media going ‘oh thank goodness our long national nightmare is over’ and celebrating President Pence, who is every bit as much a Russian asset. That’s what not to like.

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

    Don’t get me wrong: Pence might indeed be a Russian asset. His very Christian meetings with the very Christian and very-close-to-Putin Metropolitan Hilarion are, uh, troubling.

    But fact?

    And Pence seems to be a dyed-in-the-wool Dominionist, which is just as troubling, possibly more so.

    But as best I can tell Pence is an utterly-lacking-in-charisma idiot, which means that to first order he is Trump without the charisma. Even conservative evangelicals prefer Trump to Pence, by the accounts I read.

    So there’s that.

    Further, by hypothesis, Trump has just vamoosed to Moscow, exposing himself as a Russian asset; Republicans are defending the Russian asset, doing further (quite possibly unrepairable damage to the GOP brand); and Pence is an unelected president whose legitimacy is tied inseparably to traitor Trump’s stolen election.

    So yeah, I’d take that /any/ day over the present situation, where Trump has ginormous powers to set the news agenda. Start wars, even.

    (Perhaps you’re taking my comment too seriously? But it’s true, even though I posted the comment as a joke.)

  187. 187.

    J R in WV

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    …Once he realizes that his actual royal imperial person is destined for a courtroom, he’s going to Russia or North Korea for asylum.

    I think North Korea would be a terrible (for Trump) choice, because in that tiny despotic state there is only room for one Narcissitic Supreme Leader, and it isn’t Trump. He would wind up executed for les Majesty in a matter of weeks in the DPRK.

    My money is on Sawdi Arabia, where he can just hide away from the world in a giant hotel suite.

  188. 188.

    J R in WV

    @cain:

    …Remember, this guy … know[s] a shit ton of security secrets.

    This guy doesn’t read, can’t write legibly, and won’t remember the simplest things. He can’t deliver security secrets without the papers, the unread briefing books, etc.

    I don’t think staff will allow him to bale out with those documents.

    Do you even think he knows where that data is kept?

    I don’t!

  189. 189.

    J R in WV

    @the Conster:

    He can’t fire Pence, and there’s no way Pence would resign.

    Pence might resign IF Trump was holding a Presidential pardon in his hand, and a resignation letter in the other hand. Might. Depends upon Pence’s ability to fear prosecution…

    Of course, pardons don’t apply in cases of Impeachment, which probably neither of these guys knows so far. Could be a hard way to learn!

  191. 191.

    yellowdog

    @Yarrow: I believe Switzerland does not have an extradition treaty with the US. He could create a fake diplomatic visit and then refuse to leave.

Comments are closed.