My chief takeaway is that none of these protestors seemed able to walk fast enough to get in front of @ewarren. https://t.co/adszNERxMV
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) October 2, 2019
Read to the end of @teddyschleifer's great piece on Silicon Valley's begrudging respect for Elizabeth Warren. https://t.co/iHYJu03Iwy
— Ella Nilsen (@ella_nilsen) October 2, 2019
… Hunter Walk, a former product director at Google who is now a venture capitalist, calls it his “evolution.”
“To find her right on everything else and then disqualifying when it’s about my industry? Maybe that’s a little bit too precious,” said Walk. “I’m willing to say, ‘Yes, change all the other things! Uproot all these other assumptions!’ But then, oh my goodness, when she said something about tech, that’s disqualifying? Come on.”
Walk isn’t alone. Recode’s canvass of a group of major Democratic donors and fundraisers in Silicon Valley shows Warren is making significant inroads with some of tech’s wealthiest Democrats. That progress would have been unthinkable just six months ago after she called for the industry’s iconic companies to be split asunder.
Warren has not moderated her at times vitriolic rhetoric toward Silicon Valley. But tech elites are not, as often caricatured, single-issue voters driven by tech policy. And the two dozen tech executives, investors, and veteran fundraisers who spoke with Recode outlined three key reasons why their industry is making this unexpected shift toward Warren: They say they respect her policy rigor. They see her as less radical than once imagined (and especially when compared to Bernie Sanders). And perhaps most importantly, she has a reasonable path to winning the nomination, and there’s nothing Silicon Valley loves more than a winner.
What’s even more unusual is that Warren is gaining traction with these elites by doing barely any of the traditional coaxing and coddling that is a mainstay of today’s big-money era. While some of her 2020 competitors are returning to Silicon Valley multiple times within a single month, Warren is, by at least one measure, doing the best in the tech industry while also doing the least — sometimes with glee…
Three things have boosted Warren’s standing in Silicon Valley since she rattled tech’s cage this past winter, Democratic fundraisers say.First, each of her new policy plans has won hard-earned kudos from Silicon Valley’s wealthy, who are finding her intellectually simpatico even if they don’t agree with her.
“The clarity of her plans and message is the way folks in tech are used to talking about tackling problems,” said Nabeel Hyatt, an early investor in companies like Discord and Postmates. “Even if you disagree on some things, there is just a craving for competency, for someone who will do a job well.”…
Secondly, some high-dollar donors — people who donate thousands of dollars a year — also say that as they listened more closely to Warren in town halls and on podcasts, they discovered more differences between her and avowed socialists like Bernie Sanders than they initially anticipated. Warren has for months tried to subtly draw that distinction…
Above all else, Silicon Valley leaders value in a candidate what they value in their C-suites: intense competency. Analysts have widely praised Warren for running one of 2020’s most effective campaigns, and fundraisers say that has endeared her to donors who aren’t predisposed to like her but who admire her execution.
Warren last month began overtaking Joe Biden in some key early-state polls, mirroring the slow embrace Warren has found in Silicon Valley.
“People just respect success,” said one Silicon Valley fundraiser aligned with a different candidate. “There’s a flight to quality.”…
And, as the article somewhat gleefully concludes, like any such ‘quality’ subject, Warren is refusing to sell herself short by compromising her public promises with wink-wink ‘but just this once, for you’ events. Even her professional friends aren’t getting special favors from the Warren campaign. Those voters who truly share Warren’s goals will understand why she’s doing this right now… and for those voters/donors who just want a bragging-rights bandwagon to jump on, there’s nothing as attractive as a candidate who plays hard to get.
rikyrah
Trump envoys pushed Ukraine on Biden probe statement: NYT
Michael Schmidt, Washington correspondent for the New York Times, talks about new reporting that envoys of Donald Trump pressured Ukraine to produce a statement committing to an investigation of his political rivals.
rikyrah
Swalwell: Trump engaged in a ‘shadow shakedown’ of Ukraine
Rep. Eric Swalwell, member of the House Intelligence Committee, talks with Nicolle Wallace about the latest revelations about Donald Trump’s attempt to leverage military aid for Ukraine for his own personal political ends.
Kay
I figured it was huge and they were waiting to release it.
PsiFighter37
Trump is yelling about random shit on TV now. He sounds off his rocker.
rikyrah
McFaul: Why did no one say, ‘Mr. President, this is wrong’?
Michael McFaul, former U.S. ambassador to Russia, talks with Nicolle Wallace about the role of State Department officials in the Trump Ukraine scandal, and wonders why no one at the White House explained the U.S. national security interests of defending Ukraine from Russia to Donald Trump.
rikyrah
Congress refining Trump corruption into impeachment case
Matt Miller, former spokesman for the Justice Department, discusses the range and rate of scandalous behavior produced by the Donald Trump administration and the urgency with which House committees are working to distill that behavior into a clear case for impeachment.
rikyrah
Pence strains credulity with ‘obliviousness’ defense
Greg Miller, national security reporter for the Washington Post, talks with Nicolle Wallace about Mike Pence’s argument that he had no idea about the subtext of the message he was delivering to Ukrainian President Zelensky, and the growing amount of reporting on the opportunities Pence had to be better informed, as well as his responsibility to do so.
kindness
Smart gal that Senator Professor. And it is nice to see wealthy tech Democrats without their heads stuffed up their egos.
Mike in DC
Warren and Sanders, shunning high dollar fundraising, outraised Biden, Buttigieg and Harris combined in Q3. I’m actually a bit surprised that Biden only raised 15 million.
Kay
Incidentally- is there any reason to believe Trump’s fundraising numbers? He and his employees (both government and campaign) lie about everything else. Is there any kind of honest and non-corrupt audit being done by someone who wasn’t hired by and doesn’t work for Donald Trump?
rikyrah
IRS Whistleblower: Political taint in Trump or Pence audits: WaPo
Tom Hamburger, national security reporter for the Washington Post, talks about what is known about an IRS whistleblower who has raised alarm that audits of Donald Trump or Mike Pence’s taxes, which should be insulated from politics, have been subject to pressure from a Treasury Department political appointee.
Elizabelle
The more I see of Trump, the more I think the military has had a lot of discussions, in private, about when to follow a clearly crazy ass POTUS’s instructions.
He is a clear and present danger to them, too.
rikyrah
Did we get a picture of Warren’s Marine beefcake on the side?
jl
Yesterday was a big big day for future president Warren. We learned that…
she can seduce a combat decorated U.S former Marine bodybuilder almost 40 years younger, and dominate! that hunk,
she can out run Trumpsters 10 to 40 younger than she is
Trump accused her of a world historical corruption scandal in China, and they need to get to bottom of it, so Warren is either clean as a whistle or she can get down dirty with world leaders and get things done.
Looking forward to post later today to see what Harris can do to match that. A tall order, but I hope Harris can at least come close.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: I was heartened to see this, especially if this means (as I read that bit about committees) the Dems have more money than reported (?).
The Mercers, the Koch, Wall St… trump and the Rs will have virtually unlimited money, I hope Dems wise up and spend wisely
Betty Cracker
Fundraising numbers for Q3 (in millions) so far:
Sanders: $25.3
Warren: $24.6
Buttigieg: $19.1
Biden: $15.2
Harris: $11.6
Yang: $10
Booker: $6
Bennet: $2.1
MattF
Also, and this is definitely IMO, conventional techie wisdom has shifted on the goodness of the tech giants– particularly on the negative aspects of Facebook and Google. There’s quite a bit of unfocussed animosity out there, and the question of why we can’t have nice things any more has gotten louder. Warren’s ‘break them up’ plan was ahead of her time.
Kay
@Mike in DC:
It’s amazing. They don’t need high dollar donors. It changes the whole approach.
Now if they’d just work on changing the other end, the spending. What they buy. Even that may change. Warren hasn’t done any tv ads yet and the people who have have gone down, not up. Now, she has plans to buy ads so it’s not like she’s refusing it, but it is interesting that ads didn’t help the others.
MJS
Reno-Sparks metro area population = approx. 500,000. Republicans protesting Senator Warren – looks to be about 7 to 10. Team Trump Country?
Betty Cracker
@Kay: That’s a good question. But honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if the cascading impeachment scandal loosened MAGA wallets. They’re circling the wagons like mad.
dmsilev
@PsiFighter37:
I trust you have a bot set up to post this comment daily?
hilts
So far, Elizabeth Warren has won a great campaign and I wish her all the best. Her policies are superior to Biden across the board and she’s head and shoulders above him in terms of gravitas.
h/t mediaite.com/tv/cnn-more-than-60-congressional-republicans-silent-when-asked-about-trump-asking-chin…
jl
@MJS: Nevada is purple now. Las Vegas, you have resort and casino unions. Reno-Sparks is getting more and more attached to what some call the SF-Reno economic corridor running through Sacramento. More high tech in Reno now than many understand, plus state government workers in Carson City, growing influence of Univ of Nevada in high tech. Warehouse drones working in the established warehouse boom are getting restless. All that is making a difference there.
PJ
@Kay: That’s an interesting question, I wonder if the FEC ever does audits. Certainly, Trump would have even more incentive to lie than he does about his taxes, which have been subject to an IRS audit for years, and which he has evidently been trying to shut down while President.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I know I sound like a cranky miser (accurate!) but the spending needs as much rethinking as the raising.
Reconsider how it is spent. Open that whole thing up. It’s even MORE important if they’re going to raise from small donors. They have to accountable for how they spend it. Don’t just keep plowing it back into the same stuff. Do they need back to back ads in Ohio? Could they instead hire organizers at 40k a pop for 9 months? An organizer, an actual person, can both reach voters about the candidate and check on voter supression issues- is the person registered? Do they have whatever they need to vote?
It’s a great problem to have! “I have a ton of money. I wonder how I should spend it?” That should be an actual question.
Kylroy
@MattF: I have to think there’s plenty of folks in Silicon Valley who’d love to soak up some of the daylight that splitting up Google or Facebook would create.
jl
@hilts: cheerful gravitas.
Warren is my first choice now, but I wish Harris and Klobuchar would do better.
On policy…
you want a progressive, Warren is best
centrist, Klobuchar
blend, Harris.
Only obscure white dude who impressed me at all was Inslee, he’d do very well as president, even if he ran a one issue campaign that I dislike, but he’s out.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: It’s a great point. Maybe hire local folks like you suggest rather than pricey campaign consultants.
PJ
@Kay: I wonder about the emphasis candidates place on television ads. Outside of seniors, how many people actually watch television, whether over the air or via cable, that has ads? I know very few people my age or younger that even have cable anymore. The only time I see ads are when, occasionally, I look at Hulu, and I’ve never seen a political ad on there.
jl
@Kay: ” It’s even MORE important if they’re going to raise from small donors. ”
I hope Warren and Sanders can demonstrate that the small donor model is sustainable and can match the corrupt old system in terms of mass quantities of cash.
Obama (like it or not for progressives) made a good start. Sanders (like it or not for deranged Sanders haters) expanded it. Warren and Sanders are now showing you can keep it up for more than one cycle. They may go down as significant in US history for that alone, IMHO.
Don’t want to start a silly Sanders flame war. He made his contribution, but he won’t be the nominee. He should look after his health now.
Kay
@PJ:
Well, having BEEN audited for a campaign I was the treasurer of in a state legislative race I can tell you it works backward. They go from my report of each donor and then back to totals. It took the OH Sec of State forever and we raised less than 5000 dollars for this candidate, so, no I think we can safely assume no one is going over Trump’s (probably fraudulent) filings with a fine tooth comb. When I called one of the staff attorneys at the elections division (because I wanted my clean audit) he told me “we won’t even get to it for a year”.
hilts
@jl:
Warren is my first choice and my great hope is that the eventual ticket does not contain Biden or Sanders.
rikyrah
@Kay:
You are correct about how it is spent. But, I am among those who believe it’s foolish for the Democrats to go into a gun fight with a knife. They need to raise as much money as possible from all legal sources.
chopper
@PsiFighter37:
mah nishtanah?
chopper
@jl:
in their defense i think many of them forgot to charge their rascals overnight.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
one of these things is not like the other
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I’m not a Warren fan, as I dislike the potential for economic dislocation wrought by passionate advocates of major economic change, and that they’re not concerned with getting a broad societal buy-in.
I also think she’s too old, and that everyone over 60 right now has a duty to put their egos aside and make room for the 40s and 50s to unmake the clusterfuck that’s been foisted on the country by the 65+ demographic, as they and their children are having to live the consequences of it.
At the same time, I have enjoyed her spirit and tone, and wouldn’t be too aggrieved to mark a ballot for her next November, realizing the impossibility if some of her targets.
I am now thinking though, of the candidates that Trump would be completely neutralized on some of the bullying that he’s regularly employed. I’m speaking of Kamala Harris (who I assume has zero interest in dodgy Slavic ventures), Mayor Pete (veteran, small city mayor), Cool Kid Beto (same as Harris), and Amy Klobuchar. Booker could be problematic as he has served as a corporate director in finance world, but he’s probably OK. Seems like there are a lot of really nice choices with minor differences among them, and they deserve a look.
Uncle Cosmo
@hilts: It should be noted that Hurd is not seeking reelection.
hilts
@jl:
I liked Inslee a lot as well and would have loved a Warren Inslee ticket.
I’m hoping for the best in 2020, but given the massive, pervasive stupidity that afflicts this country I’m preparing for the absolute worst outcome on election day.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@rikyrah:
They did call him Mike Dense when he was in Congress. The man is about as sharp as a bowling ball.
hilts
@Uncle Cosmo:
Under Trump, the Republican caucus in Congress has devolved into the nail biting, bed wetting, curled up in a fetal position under the desk caucus.
JPL
OT for the best of reasons. Everyone needs a laugh or at least say you’re darn tootin.
A social media post about a message projected on a Hephzibah High School classroom whiteboard referencing the Confederate flag has resulted
Augusta Chronicle
Kay
@rikyrah:
But there should be some analysis of what they need. It can’t just be “an unlimited amount”. This is how we have ended up with billion dollar campaigns and voters hating politics and elections. They do hate them. They mean it when they say they hate them. Let’s see if we can do it in a way they hate less. This dogged determination to give them what they hate because we have all decided they don’t really mean it when they say they hate it is bizarre.
Make campaigns less horrible for voters. NOT us. Not people who get all excited over fundraising totals. Normal people :)
hilts
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Pense and Trump are a perfect fit for each other, they’re Dense and Denser.
JPL
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I like Kamala and Amy and would love to see one of they paired with Beto or Castro. Booker’s past support for private charter schools bother me.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
TV rates are obscene and really overvalued considering bang for the buck. I suspect in a lot of suburban and “city outside the core” voters, precinct-level organizing efforts would be cheaper and a helluvalot more effective. Nothing changes minds more than personal contact.
Nicole
I watched the video of Warren going through the airport, and then scrolled down the Twitter feed to read some of the comments. More than a few commented approvingly that she was carrying her own bags.
The tiny group of cardio-challenged protesters started out screaming “No impeachment!” but in less than a minute moved on to, “Pocahontas.” They cannot help themselves. Racism is shit, and Republicans are flies.
Elizabelle
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Good to see you back here more often.
OT: I see that Truth Aquatics out of Santa Barbara has suspended operations for the time being. Statement says they are working with the Coast Guard and powers that be to design safer boats. If they ever return to the business, I guess …
I hope some good can come out of that tragedy. That boat design for passengers was a mass demise waiting to happen.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I just fundamentally don’t buy “everyone hates it but we all must do it exactly the same way, forever”
I swear to God that could be the new motto of the United States.
trollhattan
Mumble, mumble, mumble…until E. Warren explains her campaigning for George W Bush I do not trust her.*
I’d like to better understand how and why her campaign has been so superior to the two dozen competing campaigns in real time, not some 2022 deep dive. I feel like we’re witness to a historical separation from Bidnez as Usual.
*Some St Petersburg windowless building has people pushing out this or some similar FACT to Facebook pages near you.
PJ
@Kay: Sorry about your experience with the FEC (and our current and impending experience with Trump’s unaudited campaign).
Ohio Mom
@Betty Cracker: Bennett is still in the race? Which one is he again?
I’m not joking but I don’t need to know the answers.
@PsiFighter37: How’s new fatherhood going?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
anecdata, but one of those reminders that voters are not ideological. I think one of smartest things Warren has done is endorse and increase Soc Security payments, one of the dumbest is embracing BernieCare.
trollhattan
@chopper:
:-)
You rascal, you.
Elizabelle
@Uncle Cosmo: Yes. And Will Hurd has been the one and only non-howler monkey during both the Mueller hearings and the more recent by the Acting DNI.
Major props for that. He gets the gravity, and respects the intelligence community. I think his future is brighter than any of the howler monkeys’. Certainly, history will treat him kindly. Further, Hurd will be an easier confirmation for high posts in Democratic administrations as well.
The Moar You Know
@JPL: Reminds me of this haiku I found on the tubes a long while ago:
-Mississippi Spring
That tube top of yours
Sometimes just makes me forget
You are my sister
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: I suspect the only time people liked campaign spending was when George Washington was buying barrels of rum and madeira for his voters.
Or Boss Daley passing out turkeys, and probably lots of beers at those old school neighborhood taverns.
Elizabelle
@jl: WRT Nevada: you also have a ton of blue Democrats from safe blue state California who are ready and willing to canvass and contact voters in Nevada. I believe our own mnemosyne has done some of that.
For all we know, that might be helping in Arizona too, which is trending purple in some areas.
Kent
Any economist will tell you that breaking up the very biggest tech companies like Google and Facebook will actually generate a LOT more tech jobs and startup opportunities for new companies and new ideas to thrive in silicon valley. So every tech engineer in the valley who isn’t Mark Zuckerberg should actually be cheering on Elizabeth Warren. She isn’t anti-tech. She is anti-monopoly. EXTREMELY big difference. Apparently they are starting to get that.
The fact that Facebook still has an incredibly crappy and amateurish web interface despite being one of the biggest companies in the world only underscores the point. They don’t have to even give a shit.
Kay
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
And not in huge urban centers. Smaller cities. Half a million and down. It would also be beautiful because no one would pay any attention to it. Like, per PRECINCT in Milwaukee. They get a whole person, ideally one who actually lives there. It’s Democrats so it has to be a decent wage + healthcare, so in the midwest that’s 40k. You would get really good people for that. You could even do two part-timers. A team, which might be less lonely and isolated for them.
rikyrah
The Democrats should have an entire Impeachment Social Media Team.
Dems fume over DNC treatment of Biden
The national party’s low-key role sparks frustration as Trump pummels the former vice president.
Oct 4, 2019
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
I don’t see how they possibly continue in business operating what was considered a professional and safe fleet that has now been proven unsafe, to an awful toll. And that’s before the reality of 30+ lawsuits.
We have a parachuting center nearby that keeps having fatalities and yet continues in operation. Last week’s death was a woman who descended into a semi on Highway 99. Oopsie.
Major Major Major Major
@trollhattan:
Please, please, please do not lead with disinformation. Especially if the “haha this is fake” is in the third paragraph. Debunking a lie reinforces it.
The Moar You Know
@Elizabelle: We need to stop – for once and for all – this crap practice of appointing Republicans or former Republicans TO ANYTHING in a Dem administration. There will easily be someone just as awesome who has been a lifelong Dem and paid their dues as such, and until we run out of those people (we won’t) PLEASE stop urging Dems to hire Republicans or “Independents” of any sort. Republicans sure as shit never hire Dems. Ever. Think on that.
I guarantee you Will Hurd is no friend of ours no matter how much he hates Trump. He didn’t become a Republican because he was a decent human being.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oh, I sympathize with them. This is not their hobby. They get absolutely fed up. It just seems crazy to me not to even consider that there may be ways to make them hate this less. Treating it like “you WILL go the dentist and it WILL be horrible” is perhaps not strictly necessary. Dentists don’t even do that anymore. Their whole pitch is “this is no longer horrible, we promise”
Kent
@JPL:
I taught for a decade in a big fairly diverse high school in central Texas. I was a science teacher so this sort of thing didn’t come up directly in class, but it did come up sometimes indirectly. I would tell my students “folks, it’s just the “Loser Flag” Be happy when people fly it because they are conveniently telling you who the losers are. So it does serve a purpose.” That was always good for a laugh from the black kids. Ridicule is the best medicine I think.
And yes, I would sometimes have asshole white kids wearing confederate flag hats and shit like that in classes that were very mixed with lots of blacks and Hispanics. But it was frankly very rare. More often than that the confederate flag folks just adopted the Texas flag or the Gadsden Flag or the “Come and Take It” flag and would wear it and fly it to basically make the same statement in a more PC way.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay: Should have informed my dentist. I’m now on “I hope third time is the charm” trying to get a pair of crowns that fit correctly. Yesterday afternoon/evening was less fun than I’d hoped.
Sherparick
@dmsilev: Every day now is “Infrastructure Week!” (Or our we all living a dark version of “Groundhog Day.”
Kent
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
And how many people under say age 55 actually watch live TV with ads anymore except for live sports? I don’t even watch network TV on Tivo anymore. I stream it off Amazon. And I’m 55.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Gin & Tonic: I could sing a few bars of that. Been thinking of my uncle’s old joke when people would talk about the dentist “Oh, just go down to the funeral parlor and grab a set of leftovers out of the barrel.”
By rights my dentist should name his boat after me.
Martin
So if Trump wanted Biden investigated for corruption in Ukraine, why is he talking to China about Warren? Whatever excuse the GOP is giving completely falls apart in that situation.
hilts
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
With the exception of your comments about Warren, I agree with everything you wrote. I don’t think Warren is too old, but as far as Biden and Sanders are concerned, I think they’re both remarkably selfish pricks for getting in this race given that they’re both over 75 years old.
jl
@Sherparick: “Infrastructure Week!”
Yeesh. You are so behind the times. Infrastructure Day is what’s happening now.
No links, since too many, and you really don’t need them, just go to TPM or news sites.
Trump is yelling about a giga-meta conspiracy that Australia, Ukraine, Italy, and I don’t know who else conspired to defeat him and fabricated the hoax Russian election interference.
The Russian interference he acknowledged to the Russian officials in his notorious Oval Office meeting, and said it didn’t matter since everyone does it.
Deranged and delusional criminal. I don’t think Trump has enough imagination to think up such crack pot garbage. Behind the scenes, he must be taking really deep dives into the wildest QAnon ravings and screeds, or some one is feeding it to him.
oldgold
Tweets from Mitt R a few minutes ago:
When the only American citizen President Trump singles out for China’s investigation is his political opponent in the midst of the Democratic nomination process, it strains credulity to suggest that it is anything other than politically motivated.
By all appearances, the President’s brazen and unprecedented appeal to China and to Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden is wrong and appalling.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: In a blog comment?
rikyrah
Diahann Carroll, pioneering actress on ‘Julia’ and ‘Dynasty,’ dies at 84
POSTED 11:18 AM, OCTOBER 4, 2019, BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
NEW YORK —Diahann Carroll, the Oscar-nominated actress and singer who won critical acclaim as the first black woman to star in a non-servant role in a TV series as “Julia,” has died. She was 84.
Carroll’s daughter, Susan Kay, told The Associated Press her mother died Friday in Los Angeles of cancer.
During her long career, Carroll earned a Tony Award for the musical “No Strings” and an Academy Award nomination for “Claudine.”
But she was perhaps best known for her pioneering work on “Julia.” Carroll played Julia Baker, a nurse whose husband had been killed in Vietnam, in the groundbreaking situation comedy that aired from 1968 to 1971.
Although she was not the first black woman to star in her own TV show (Ethel Waters played a maid in the 1950s series “Beulah”), she was the first to star as someone other than a servant.
Major Major Major Major
@hilts: as far as I can tell, Trump, Biden, and Sanders are all too old for the job. Warren is on the cusp, but she’s a very youthful 70.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Elizabelle:
The scubaboard arguments on Truth Aquatics were insane. Lots of deleted posts and locked threads.
Basically, those were bargain basement trips – 3 days and nights for less than $600. People who had been on scuba liveaboards everywhere else in the world we’re shocked at the cramped berths, configuration of the main exit, configuration of the escape hatch (2X2, atop a three-stack bunk and into a fixed 3 ft high cabinet), cramped dive deck, notable absence of fire extinguishers, etc. It looked positively awful and a disaster-in-the-making. Criticism was met by angry sneers of “you don’t understand SoCal dive culture, we don’t need handholding and fancy boats, you’ll wreck everything by upping standards, etc.”
What I think happens in SoCal diving is that each operator is competing for the lowest price point instead of a positive experience for dives, and the attitude is so pervasive that they don’t know how to do better. I mean, hell – I will spend 200 per day (plus tips) for two-tank boat dives on a day boat, about the same as what SoCal divers spend per day with accommodations and food, diving 5-6 times a day. Rob Lowe dived the Conception, and he could sure as hell afford a better liveaboard experience.
JPL
@Kent: The teacher appears to be a straight talker and I do hope that she’ll be reinstated soon.
PJ
@The Moar You Know: If a Democrat is elected on November 3, 2020, you can bet that major media outlets, not just Fox, will have a bit about how, in the interests of “healing” the country, half of all appointments by the new administration should be Republicans.
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Oh, I liked Diahann Carroll. I remember “Julia.” Good show.
cain
@MattF:
My last employer was all about going against Big Tech or Big Data by providing hardware that respected privacy and security. They don’t do a great job with security unfortunately – (eg I still have access to their twitter eve though I’m no longer employed)
In any case, my next gig is also a privacy and security hardware device thing and I’m helping launch this thing by donating my time and expertise.
But yeah, it’s a thing. The backlash will start growing.
A brilliant computer scientist friend I know quit his long running gig at IBM and is now working for Facebook. I was not excited. I thought he was contributing his skills to the destruction of our society not for its betterment. I did not say that in person.
cain
@PJ:
Yes, I don’t have cable.. hell I just had my house siding redone and I took out all the cable that was there. The only thing I have is Netflix and Amazon Prime Now and even then I don’t watch TV all that often. I apparently spend a lot of time on my laptop chatting with you jackals. The only way to get to with political ads.. well you really can’t.
Elizabelle
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
The Conception looked like the scariest hostel in the world, with 3 times the people jammed into your sleeping chamber, out on the water, with no windows in your room.
I would never, ever, ever have slept there. Sleeping bag on the deck or I would not have gone.
I had a hostel in Europe where I rested (did not sleep) in my bunk overnight because I was terrified there was no escape in a fire.
This will make diving more expensive, but the cost of 34 lives was too high. I pray those folks succumbed to smoke inhalation before they ever realized they were trapped in a fatal fire.
sherparick
I see some people in the national media who keep wondering “When will Republicans stop this?” and then express amazement when Republicans like Ron Johnson, Lyndsay Graham, John Coryn, et. al. join in with Trump in agreeing with his looney toons conspiracy theories and saying he is right to call foreign countries and suggest trading favors to gig up investigations of his opponents. What is going on here? Well, Trump is the culmination of a 70 year old mass movement of people who felt the expansion of American democracy from the New Deal to the end of the Great Society left them losers (certainly a loss of a lot of privilege) and wanted to get back at the perceived traitors of “America – White Man’s Country.” This also what the they mean by “electorate” and the American People. Trump is overwhelmingly popular among White People, 58% of whom voted for him in 2016 and super popular among non-college educated (but often very well off – contrary to David Brooks imaginings) white people, 67% of whom voted for him. And 63% of all white men, college educated and non-college educated voted for Trump. pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/ & theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls And the voted for Trump despite the self-dealing and self-enrichment. They voted for him because he is cruel and authoritarian, not despite it. They want a King, someone who will crush their real enemies, the liberals, progressives, uppity women, and non-whites. So no, the Republicans will support Trump perhaps to the point of civil war.
hilts
@Major Major Major Major:
Completely agree with your take on Warren. With respect to Trump, I believe he’s too old for this job but even more importantly he’s been a pathological liar and knuckle dragging neanderthal for his entire life.
Betty Cracker
Sure they will…
But as someone who believes working the refs is time well spent, this is a good start.
hilts
Speaking of conservative assholes, Charles Murray is my choice for asshole of the week for offering up this gem:
h/t nytimes.com/2019/10/02/opinion/trump-leave-white-house.html
misterpuff
@hilts:
Babies in Cages.
Just Chuck
@trollhattan:
She was a Republican. She isn’t one now. Cole was a Republican too, around the same time even. I don’t think either of them owe you sackcloth and ashes.
Mousebumples
@trollhattan:
I can’t offer a link but I recall reading or hearing something back in February when she first announced – in the context of “wow, it’s early to start campaigning!” The point being made was that since she was FIRST, she had her pick of campaign staffers. Might have been one of the Pod Save America podcasts, with the Obama staffers?
Granted, you can hire the best staffers with the best ideas in the world, but EW does deserve some props for being willing to shake up the status quo. Some ideas work better than others, but I respect her willingness to make a mistake since the risks seem to be paying off in other avenues.
*Note: I haven’t picked “my candidate” yet since my state (Wisconsin) has such a late primary. Once the early primaries and caucuses officially cut down the field, I’m planning to dig into details more. And like many here, I’m definitely on Team Broken Glass…
Kay
@hilts:
It’s all such bullshit. The fact is they don’t think anyone else has any rights or is a citizen. They’re opposed to our system of government. They’re thrilled he’s rigging it. They hope it continues long enough to lodge their authoritiarian state with their ridiculous clown of a dictator. This fantasy they have that they can somehow follow this fraud while still remaining “respectable” is just that- a fantasy. They will all BE Donald Trump. It cannot go any other way. That’s what following a leader means- you adopt the leaders character and actions and views. The rot doesn’t stop with Trump. It infects all of them. It has to.
Ladyraxterinok
@Elizabelle: Isn’t he Beto’s friend?
Bruce K
@oldgold: To quote one of Romney’s constituents:
HumboldtBlue
Monica Lewinsky has entered the chat.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@hilts:
Yes, “stupid and obstructive regulations” like clean water and clean air, not to mention trying to eliminate references to proven science such as climate change and evidence-based medicine in the federal government. Fuck this asshole
So he has no true principles then. “Who cares about our civil rights as long as I get paid”, indeed.
jl
@HumboldtBlue: I almost didn’t click, since don’t want to be reminded of that episode right now. But that was good. And Monica, she’s willing make immense sacrifices to set the country right, I give that to her.
cain
@Kent:
No “dont’ tread on me” flag? That was always a classic.. but I guess that has fallen into disfavor since the 70s.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
One of the reasons I back Warren is her supporters are very committed. Obama had that too. I think it’s essential. Zuckerberg tries any shit he’s gonna run into a buzzsaw. They think they have an underdog candidate who is defying odds to rise and that is just a very intoxicating feeling.
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
phuck outta here.
lips so pursed.
rikyrah
@hilts:
isn’t he The Bell Curve author?
Surprise…a racist voting for a White Nationalist.
color me shocked.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Kay:
The best bit is they think we’ll all go along with it quietly and meekly. Fuck. That. These RWNJ morons don’t have the guts to do what it takes to actually enforce a dictatorship
Bruce K
@hilts: I remember the cognitive disconnect when I realized one of my favorite non-fiction books, on the Apollo Program, was written by the same Charles Murray who wrote The Bell Curve.
FlyingToaster
For those worried about D candidate spending:
The Warren campaign is about engagement. My e-mailbox is full of “come canvas here, come to this house party, catch the bus to NH”, etc. The money, at least for now, is being spent on organizing, and on teaming with local candidates at the state and Fed level to combine canvassing/contact/outreach efforts.
TV ads will definitely be targeting the over-60 crowd, because that’s the only people who’ll watch them. But since the 60+ are also the most likely to vote, I expect Warren to be talking Social Security and Medicare in those ads.
Anyone who presumes an air-war can win this election is heading for a rude awakening.
rikyrah
@Kay:
ALL OF THEM.
And, the delusion that they can choose the tax cuts and the judges, but, don’t judge me based on the babies in cages, and killing migrants, and wanting them shot…how dare you try and attach THAT to me.
RedDirtGirl
@rikyrah: Hey Rikyrah, When are you getting front page status?
Kent
@rikyrah: Of course Facebook will treat Warren impartially. By which they actually mean they will impartially allow Warren to buy ads on their platform as well as impartially allow Russian trolls to do the same. Fair is far. They will be happy to take anyone’s money and be completely impartial about not screening any of it.
FlipYrWhig
@rikyrah:
Maybe the DNC is, for some reason, cautious about how people react when they stand up for the frontrunner candidate.
Kay
@hilts:
I smiled when I saw douchebag threw Hong Kong democracy protestors under the corruption bus. Conservatives supposedly cared about them, last week.
Put yet another “bed rock value” on the Trump pyre. They’re him. As long as they remain too greedy and/or chickenshit or subservient to buck him they are him.
What sacrifice will he require next week? He always ups the ante. By 2020 they won’t have anything left. They tithed it all to Dear Leader. And for what? A fucking tax cut? Gutting enviromental regs? He knew they could be bought and boy was he right.
jl
@rikyrah:
isn’t he The Bell Curve author?
>> Yes he is. One of the most incompetent faux ‘scholarly’ books ever written. the title itself is an immense and elementary blunder that shows ignorance of the methodology of IQ tests, and their legitimate use.
Surprise…a racist voting for a White Nationalist.
>> As far as I can tell, Murray has one and only one minor accomplishment. Which is that he did identify socioeconomic decline in the White middle and working class. But then he immediately misunderstood the cause, and drew the wrong conclusions. And others did it earlier and better and drew the correct conclusions on the why and remedy.
color me shocked.
>> Me too.
oldgold
@Bruce K:
Ha!
I suspect it might have something to do with Mitt seeing this as his last shot of becoming President.
The only cure for Presidential Potomac Fever is embalming fluid.
cain
@hilts:
ARGH! He’s FUCKING BREAKING FEDERAL LAWS, YOU ASSHOLE AND A RUSSIAN ASSET – That’s not something you want in any president. Jeezus!
Marcopolo
A couple things about campaign funding & spending.
1) The folks who have crunched the numbers (looked at the FEC & other data) say about 70,000 folks in the US provide 90% of all campaign funding.
Take a moment to digest that. That is something like .0002% of the population. The donors at the top give ridiculous amounts. Here in MO (we have very lax campaign finance laws) every cycle we have politicians getting checks that range from $100K to $1M from individual donors. So any candidate or message that increases the overall number of donors (most of whom by nature will be small dollar contributors) is great but we really really need to see if we can get back to sensible campaign finance regulation (I am not an optimist).
2) Anecdotally speaking (cause I need to throw in just a little anecdata), I tried my damnedest to get my close circle of friends (around 10-15 folks) to make any kind of donation to a/any candidate (local/state/national) in the 2018 election. I got one person to give. I know cause after the election I looked in various places (Open Secrets, the state database). Needless to say I felt a bit defeated. So getting people who do not typically give to political campaigns to do so is a big hurdle (at least if you are not an inspirational candidate). Kudos to Sanders (over 1M 3Q donors) & Warren (930K 3Q donors) & all the other candidates else who are inspiring new folks to give to campaigns.
3) I happened to see a Matthew Yglesias comment just this morning on the relative effectiveness of campaign spending on TV & field in the 2016 Presidential race. According to Yglesias the Clinton campaign saw a .3% increase in vote share in counties where they had field offices versus a .7% increase in vote share from running 1000 extra TV ads. He linked to his source, Chapter 8 from IDENTITY CRISIS: THE 2016 ELECTION & THE BATTLE FOR THE MEANING OF AMERICA . The discussion of field/TV ad efficacy starts around page 37.
The broad takeaway is that TV ads do work to move votes (I am always amazed and dismayed by how effective advertising is in general). I’d also add, however, that while you get a good bang for your buck from TV ads, you probably (hopefully) get a different more long-term affect from a field office on voter preferences since person-to-person persuasion can develop social relationships that watching TV ads never will. There is definitely a place for both. And I am a huge proponent of campaigns being transparent in how they spend their funds.
Finally, it strikes me it is probably much easier to blow a shit-ton of money much faster running bad ads in poorly chosen locations at inappropriate times than it is to hire too many field staff.
Ladyraxterinok
@misterpuff: Well, he did write the Bell Curve, amirite?!?
jl
@FlipYrWhig: ” Maybe the DNC is, for some reason, cautious about how people react when they stand up for the frontrunner candidate.”
Possible. But all the major candidates defended Biden and condemned Trump, so DNC should be able to find a way to echo that without seeming too impartial.
Now Trump sees Warren as a threat, so he is making absurd charges about her, favoring just one front runner is not an issue anymore. DNC should be able to think of something that is constructive and not divisive.
PJ
@cain: Murray isn’t much different from the standard hand-wringing Republican: Who cares if the President has sold out the country to Putin and is committing heinous acts, both illegal and legal? As long as he’s putting people of color down, gutting regulations, and cutting taxes, it’s all good.
Brachiator
@rikyrah:
Can’t believe she was 84. She will always be young and vibrant to me. Very talented lady. I also remember reading about her hot affair with Sidney Poitier. I also remember her interview with David Frost, where chemistry and open flirtation led to romance.
Her tv show was sweet. It is nuts to think that her character was the first non servant role. And although I didn’t pay much attention to the show, I liked her character on Dynasty.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@jl:
Tbf, I’m not sure he misunderstood that particular part
@Kay:
They did? I must’ve missed that. Suddenly the PRC government are the goods guys now because Dear Leader wants them to “investigate” Emmanuel Goldste- I mean, Joe Biden. We have always been at war with Eastasia
cain
@FlyingToaster:
They also form the backbone of any local GOTV effort. I’ve been part of GOTV efforts for three political campaigns (O1, O2, H1) and it’s all run by take charge older ladies. They have the time and energy. I don’t see many younger types. I’m curious to see what a Bernie campaign would look like since it seems to be all young people supporting him.
Cacti
@Kay:
AFAIK, Trump is the only POTUS in US history to:
1. Congratulate China for its successful communist revolution
2. Wish the Japanese Navy a happy Memorial Day
cain
@RedDirtGirl:
I would support this. If only to see “Good morning everyone” on the front page every day. :-) On the other hand, I remember the last time we had a black woman on the front page and what kind of shit that happened. Fucking assholes.
The Moar You Know
OT:
He ain’t lyin’. It will be VERY quick:
“Trump’s all good, right? Right. Done.”
Those of you think even one GOP senator will flip are living in a dream world.
Ladyraxterinok
@HumboldtBlue: Great she’s able to have a sense of humor!
rikyrah
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
I agree. The thing that has shocked them most during Dolt45’s Administration is the level of resistance to him. They never counted on that.
StringOnAStick
@jl:
“Some one” = Stephen Miller.
I just got a Google warning that someone has tried to get into my account; the location of the attempted break in was given as St Petersburg, Russia. Finally, all this blog posting scored me some attention!
rikyrah
@RedDirtGirl:
Nope. Not doing it.
jl
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: ” Tbf, I’m not sure he misunderstood that particular part ”
IIRC, Murray went with the David Brooks diagnosis that it was moral decay brought on by morally corrupting liberal policies that did it. And with the racist dog whistle that it was cultural corruption from growing influence and tolerance of those sketchy ‘minority lifestyles’. Which is bunk
Krugman, for one, had and has the correct analysis: White living standards, that had for years been protected (unlike those of minorities) were being hit hard by the growing effects of corrupt crony capitalism and the upward distribution of wealth and income. Most of the supposed moral decline in White communities was an effect of, and an adjustment to those factors.
If I don’t remember correctly, please let me know.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@rikyrah: Put me in mind of this:
I don’t think any of them actually believes the “defense” they’ve chosen. But they’re going to stick with them, and as Sam Spade says the newspapers will go along with it whether they believe it or not. It just remains to be seen whether we still have a functional legal system to punch through this crap.
cain
@PJ:
It’s when they wrap themselves up in the flag, and wag their fingers at you about how you’re not patriotic enough and all that. Yet, apparently all of that can be removed because what’s patriotic is selling everything off to the highest bidder, and subjugating your minorities, and ripping off your neighbor. MAGA
Cacti
@The Moar You Know:
Disagree. Susan Collins might vote for removal when it’s clear it has no chance of succeeding. That’s how she gets her “moderate” cred.
Elizabelle
@hilts: Oh Lord. For those who don’t have a FTF NYTimes sub, or did not click on hilts’ link about Charles Murphy: do you know how that appeared in the supposed paper of record?
It’s in a column by Thomas Edsall, a pantswetter extraordinaire formerly of the high Broderist variety at the Washington Post. He is at the FTF NYTimes to pump out these columns about “Democrats — be very afraid. Be skeered!” Tiresome asshole I used to think a lot more of.
His opus this week:
Fuck him. Or, if you’re in a kind mood, mail him some Depends.
Edsall was kind enough to include the observations of two, count them, two women among the 16 voices that appeared in his column, on one side or another (and some were quotes of what Fox News personalities and pastors had to say). No wonder the guy is so often behind the times.
Be askeered, DemocRATs!
cain
@rikyrah:
“They expected us to be passive, they counted wrong.” – Ronald Reagan.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I saw a tweet this morning that the Dems are worried about Tulsi going hog wild at the debate she qualified for because of the ridiculously low standards set for participation. Another gift we owe to the Bern-wahn Shriek Rajneesh and his persecution-fantasist cultists
Yutsano
@rikyrah: They want absolution? They can go find a priest. Every single Republican – EVERY SINGLE ONE – is complicit unless they have receipts showing they actively try to press their representatives to stop jailing children and separating families. And I can guarandamnee you none of them have any proof of these things. They don’t get to cherry pick here: it’s either you agreed with this shit and went along because judges and tax cuts, or you “disagreed” but you liked the judges and tax cuts so it’s okay. IT. DON’T. WORK. LIKE. THAT.
Starfish
@Nicole: I was struck by that. Why are these racists always painted as noble salt-of-the-earth types?
Ladyraxterinok
@Kay: Well, he knew he was super easy to buy. And since he judges everyone by himself,,,,,
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
Can I suggest more (or at least some) coffee/covfefe?
Barbara
@jl: I think it was William Julius Wilson who predicted that whites would be affected by similar demographic trends once white economic security was negatively affected by trade and economic policies, and particularly, predicted an increased number of kids in households headed by single mothers as men had fewer options for well-paid, secure employment.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Marco Rubio has been one of the loudest voices on China since it burnishes his anti-commie cred with the all-important geriatric Cuban exile demographic in South Florida. A reporter in Key West asked him about Trump asking China to investigate Biden, and he gave a mealy-mouthed reply insinuating that Trump might have been just needling the media. Utterly useless, spineless piece of shit.
hilts
@rikyrah:
Yes as jl noted, this is the same asshole.
@cain, @Kay, @Bruce K, Goku (aka Amerikan Baka), @misterpuff
Seeing this Murray quote reminded me of that group Scholars for Trump that formed in 2016.
With each passing day, Trump finds new ways to defecate and urinate on our Constitution and yet the Republican zombies in Congress continue to stick with him.
Despite the excitement surrounding Warren’s campaign, I have a deep sinking feeling about 2020. I hope to be proven wrong on Election Day 2020 and be able to celebrate Trump and his family getting swept into the trash receptacle of history where they belong.
JPL
@HumboldtBlue: Speaking truth to power
catclub
@jl:
please never let me know.
MattF
In the ‘Well, golly’ category, it seems that Romney is inching towards a posture of non-lickspittle.
mobile.twitter.com/MittRomney/status/1180151212030779392
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: when trump was still being treated as a joke, the core of Marco’s stump speech was that Obama was deliberately weakening the United States as a world power– “Let’s dispel with the notion… ” (that was IIRC his script, not a moment of misspeaking, he said it again and again, didn’t he?). that’s the Republican Party Brian Williams and Jake Tapper long to see return to the fore.
Peale
@rikyrah: you see, there’s only supposed to be liberal overreach and then we’re supposed to cower from the conservative backlash. its there favorite narrative. There isn’t supposed to be liberal backlash, god dammit. That messes up everything. If liberals stopped being afraid of conservative backlash, everything they’ve taught you since Nixon to prevent you from overreaching falls apart.
Cacti
@hilts:
If she wins the nom, and runs on Medicare for all in the general, she will lose.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@jl:
I meant in the sense that he was lying but knew the truth. I don’t “know” this for a fact but I suspect that’s that case
catclub
@Cacti: I think the Nixon timeline is relevant. the GOP backed Nixon basically right up until the tapes were finally released. Butterfield testified that they exist in July 1973. They were finally released in late July 1974, and only THEN did his GOP support collapse.
Trump has a long way still to run, so saying the GOP senators will NEVER change only looks that way now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Cacti: her propensity to embrace maximalist sloganeering is her biggest weakness, no doubt.
Marcopolo
@Marcopolo: I forgot to put in the link IDENTITY CRISIS: THE 2016 ELECTION & THE BATTLE FOR THE MEANING OF AMERICA
Ladyraxterinok
@Brachiator: Julia started in 68? Wasn’t that the yr Robert Culp and Bill Cosby’s show I Spy started?
It’s claimed that was the 1st TV show that had a black male leading character.
Although, as was pointed out to me, Cosby was NOT the lead. He was the side kick!
jl
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??: OK, thanks. I guess I misunderstood your comment. Murray is not very sharp except maybe as a reporter, so, I think when he says some daffy thing, hard to know whether it’s because he doesn’t understand how things work, or it’s bad faith.
catclub
@hilts:
I disagreed with a view I heard, that Trump is attacking Biden so that he can run against a woman such as Warren.
I thought Trump is attacking Biden because he thinks Biden will be the Nominee for the Democrats, and wants to cut him down early.
Mandalay
@Major Major Major Major:
Bad news: BJ already has hall monitors for posts criticizing the Democratic candidates and Hunter Biden. We really don’t need any more.
Folks on BJ can pretty much post whatever the fuck they want, which for me is single best thing about it.
glory b
I’m wondering if we’re coming to the point where the fundraising doesn’t make that much difference.
It used to be that the one who raised the most money almost always won. Now, I see people pointing out that Bernie (for instance) has raised a ton of money but his numbers haven’t changed.
hilts
@Elizabelle:
Thomas Edsall also used to write for the Huffington Post. I agree with you about his dickishness.
Right about now, I wish I had a time machine so that I could go to bed tonight and wake up tomorrow on Election Day 2020. I can’t stomach having to wait a whole goddamn year till Trump’s fate is decided. This guy is pure, unadulterated scum and he’s already provided ample evidence of guilt on multiple fronts. This monster has to be removed from the Oval Office and a team of exterminators needs to fumigate the White House before our next President moves in.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: from one of Marco’s own side
Betty Cracker
@The Moar You Know: GOP senators will flip if/when it becomes political untenable to stick with Trump.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sounds about right. Ted Cruz rolls over and piddles on his belly all the time too.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
And the Berniebro checks in to tell us that other Dem candidates should be joining Trump’s scurrilous and criminal attacks on the Biden family.
How many kopeks do you get per post, comrade?
Another Scott
@The Moar You Know: TheHill:
It’s so very expensive to vote “No”. It’s like a moon shot or something… :-/
Of course, this is shocking, shocking to us all.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: Jen Rubin just tweeted that Cruz’s debasement should cost him any consideration of a judicial appointment. It certainly should. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Ted auditions for the next big lifetime appointment by marching Heidi and the girls over to the White House to ask if Melania will teach them how to do make-up. Or maybe there’s too big a risk that the little girl who wouldn’t let him kiss her would seize the moment to sock him right in the nuts.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Now I’m normal? It’s taken a lot of years to be called normal. I’m not sure I know how to take that……….
trollhattan
In lieu of admitting I don’t know, I looked up key CA 2020 primary election dates.
For voters:
For candidates:
Our vote used to be in June, and the sheer number of delegates in play March 3 (here and elsewhere) will have a big and perhaps decisive impact on the nomination. Still, it’s a loooong way off.
PJ
@cain: The Republican Way, in a nutshell.
Dev Null
@Major Major Major Major:
Concur. Alternatively, use a “snark” tag or emoticon.
Like J. Chuck at #90, I took trollhattan’s statement as intended in good faith until I remembered your comment, which I hadn’t understood at the time (because I didn’t backtrack to see trollhattan’s post.)
Just for reference, Politico has an EW profile here which says among other things that EW switched party registration in 1996. (I imagine the link has been posted here multiple times, but “a good thing cannot be said too often.”)
According to Politico, EW says that prior to 1996 she voted for only one GOP presidential candidate, Gerald Ford …
… confirming a statement which Satby (i think) made yesterday.
Mandalay
@Betty Cracker:
And this morning Rubio tweeted this:
Not a word about Trump staying silent over Hong Kong.
Ruckus
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
Which is why Warren is doing so well right now. She’s not doing a campaign like they have been done for the last few decades, TV and news reports. She’s doing the foot work, the meet and greets, this is the actual person, not a cardboard cutout or promo clip on TV. If Harris wants to win she needs to do the same, which yes she is, but not to the extent of Warren. Warren is on a modern day whistle stop tour.
glory b
@Mike in DC: I’ve seen reports (and tweets) ndicatng that Sanders’ people are urging donors to break up large donations into a bunch of smaller ones to keep up the appearance of being more grassroots-y than they actually are.
I also saw an article (maybe on Slate?) by a cardiologist saying that whether or not he actually had a heart attack may not matter because the discharge advice for those type of heart patients would be identical. Running for president would be strongly discouraged.
Yutsano
@Ruckus: Normal is a cycle on a washing machine. Please to keep being weird with the rest of us. :)
Dev Null
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
FTFY.
Sorry to be dumb – I don’t need to “act” – but you do know about the whole Bell Curve saga, don’t you?
(Ah, I see that that’s been mentioned. Never mind.)
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I’m surrounded by conservative judges and lawyers every day so I knew this was their latest Moral Stance- they support the Hong Kong protesters! Until yesterday, when Dear Leader banned that.
They’re fucking desperate for something to lord over liberals with- I think that’s what they most miss with Trump- their phony moral superiority. That’s what’s hardest to give up, but give it up they will!
Warren is really clean. For one thing, she hasn’t been in government long enough to get even an appearance of impropriety. She can beat Trump with a corruption stick every fucking day for a year and I for one will enjoy every minute of that. We happened to have a viable anti-corruption candidate at the same time we have the most corrupt incumbent in history. It was meant to be. Kushner ALONE is a month’s worth of ammunition.
Dev Null
@rikyrah: “this is my shocked face” :-)
hilts
@Betty Cracker:
Marco Rubio is just another waste of protoplasm.
glory b
@PJ: Why do you think television talkig heads point to fundraising as the be-all and end-all?
They aren’t dummies, they know where the bulk of that money goes.
RedDirtGirl
@cain: Good point.
@rikyrah: Fair enough.
Dev Null
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
A herd of
sheepmarching morons might, though.Open to correction, but the more relevant point seems to me to be that the Trump Admin is collectively too stupid to bring about and sustain a dictatorship. Not to mention that the Admin’s animus towards empiricism is self-defeating.
In the long run, anyway… by which time we might all be dead. [cheerfully]
Ladyraxterinok
@hilts:
Scholars for Trump?
Reminded me of shock I got when I learned of the long list of noted German authors and scholars who defended German army against criticism for ignoring Belgian neutrality when it carried out the plan to attack France at the start of WWI. As I recall, Thomas Mann was one of the signers of the support statement.
glory b
@rikyrah: What rikyrah said. I have yet to hear any African American say otherwise. We are in a battle for our lives, more so than most white people, all of it is needed if this is the way we’re going to play this game.
joel hanes
@hilts:
Charles Murray
is confident that the leopard will never eat *his* face.
Brachiator
@Ladyraxterinok:
I Spy was first broadcast in1965 and Bill Cosby was the co-star. He won Emmys as Lead Actor.
So, to be fair, Julia was the first show featuring a black female lead in a non-stereotypical role.
And of course Julia took heat for not being gritty and for not having a black male lead or regular.
Ben Cisco
@The Moar You Know:
Emphasis mine.
I just wanted to highlight this comment in its entirety b/c 1) it’s dead on, and 2) I wish I had said it first.
Kelly
@hilts:
I’ve been meaning to discuss a medically induced coma with my doctor…
Dev Null
@cain:
As a fellow member of Trump’s NY real estate lodge put it:
*Leona Helmsley, before she went to jail for tax fraud.
joe hanes
@Ruckus:
why Warren is doing so well right now
In addition to the personal-contact retail politics, Warren has one enormous advantage.
To quote a blog comment from about ten days ago, for which I have unfortunately lost the attribution:
Miss Bianca
@Brachiator: I remember “Julia”. Altho to be honest, I was so little at the time, my main memory was just how pretty I thought Diahann Carroll was in her nurse’s uniform!
Dev Null
@Cacti:
hahahahahahahaha…
No offense, but you can’t possibly be serious! /snark
She’ll furrow her brow, deliver a two-hour maudlin stemwinder on the burdens of responsibility (or maybe the responsibility of burdens), and vote to acquit.
Honestly, she’s sold out, lock stock and barrel. While I am almost always wrong about these things, she pissed off a lot of Dem voters when she voted for Kavanaugh. Voting for conviction would piss off base Goopers.
She won’t. She just won’t.
(Did I mention that I am almost always wrong about these things?)
catclub
@Dev Null: Sheeple at least LOOK like they could be dangerous. H/T xkcd
Major Major Major Major
@Mandalay:
I feel like nobody understood what I wrote, so let me try again.
So You’d Like To Make A Joke About A Bullshit Talking Point
Don’t lead with the talking point before you debunk it! Lead with how it’s false! Otherwise, and this is backed by numerous studies and media-academics, you are reinforcing the lie.
Thanks!
Searcher
As someone who works for an iconic Silicon Valley tech company — albeit, not in the Silicon Valley campus — I personally don’t think breaking up my company (at least insomuch as the breakup has been outlined) would particularly hurt the product, my job, or even the value of my stock options; I can see how it might hurt the egos of some of the founders, but (a) it wouldn’t significantly affect their net worth, as they would maintain ownership of the split-up companies and (b) honestly they’ve checked out enough that I don’t think they are as invested in keeping it together as they might have once been.
Now, actually splitting up the company is going to involve hundreds of thousands or millions of engineer-hours to perform the technical decoupling, which ain’t bad for my job prospects, but from where I’m siting there’s no fundamental reason they wouldn’t all work as separate businesses. And there are, of course, ways you could break up the company that would be bad for me, the product, and the consumer, but those aren’t currently on the table AFAIK.
So while I can understand some people getting defensive about the idea, and I’m not 100% convinced it will accomplish what they want it to, breakups definitely aren’t a deal-breaker for everyone involved in tech.
Betty Cracker
@Kay:
Yep. And her anti-corruption activities predate Trump’s political rise by decades, so she can’t be credibly accused of opportunism on that score.
Dev Null
@Elizabelle: From an Edsall column about 5 weeks back:
You see? Only Dems have agency! And with that agency Dems should pursue white voters who, um, can’t decide about race.
er, /snark
Brachiator
@PJ:
Great point. And more attention should be paid to this. A lot of money goes to television ads. And in California and other states, a huge amount of money goes to radio ads, to reach English speaking folks who listen to drive time radio.
Now, I am not a youngster, but I don’t watch regular TV anymore, nor do I listen to standard terrestrial radio. I listen to some public radio and other programs via podcasts, which strips out the advertising.
It didn’t really hit me until the midterm election that I had not heard a single radio ad concerning California ballot propositions, and I only saw a couple of tv political ads when I was at a local restaurant that had the tv on.
And you’re right that a lot of young people have abandoned traditional media or never bothered with it in the first place.
But this is also why social media is becoming hugely important to the political parties. And it is far less regulated than traditional media.
glory b
@Dev Null: Michael Moore told us so when he was on Ari Melber’s show the other day.
Interestingly, he didn’t mention African Americans at all. For Ari to pride himself on his deeeeep knowledge of hip hop, I’m surprised he let him get away with that.
Dev Null
@Mandalay:
[shrugs] if you want people to misunderstand your post, sure, say whatever TF you want, and omit any indication that you’re trolling.
Well, other than your moniker.
Seems to me that this is common sense, but what do I know…
eric
From TPM:
Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) said Friday that in August, the U.S. ambassador to the European Union told the senator that military aide for Ukraine was linked To Trump’s push for Ukraine to investigate the origins of special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe, the Wall Street Journal reported.
Johnson spoke to the ambassador, Gordon Sondland, on Aug. 30, Johnson said.
he then confronts Trump, who denies it. going with rogue operator defense possibly….cant imagine those guys take the fall for Trump
Dev Null
@Ruckus:
Offended?
Brachiator
@Miss Bianca:
I’ve seen a lot of this in comments about Carroll’s passing. And a couple of comments from women who said they chose nursing or the medical field as a career because of her.
I think this is all very cool.
Cacti
@Dev Null:
Completely serious. It would involve no risk whatsoever, and the press would absolutely swoon over her “principled stand” (that actually cost her nothing).
Dev Null
Ditto.
Never been an FBI director who was a Dem, AFAIK. Not under a GOP Admin, not under a Dem Admin.
See? The system worked. /sarcasm
Steeplejack (phone)
@Betty Cracker:
It’s a risk, especially if the humor misfires.
Here is somebody taking that comment seriously in the same thread.
Dev Null
@catclub:
One of my faves. Also too:
Also too:
… the latter being tangentially relevant to the current heated discussion of political power and the Resistance.
Dev Null
@Major Major Major Major:
er…
There’s also the issue of communicating your point to the, uh, community. I have no problem with trolling – I do it all the time (and often get flamed for it) – but a troll works just as well when supplemented with a sarcasm font or tag and / or an emoticon.
Me, I’d never heard that particular disinformation, so thought it was a for real statement.
Dev Null
@glory b:
hunh. surprising. and disappointing.
sherparick
I see some people in the national media who keep wondering “When will Republicans stop this?” and then express amazement when Republicans like Ron Johnson, Lyndsay Graham, John Coryn, et. al. join in with Trump in agreeing with his looney toons conspiracy theories and saying he is right to call foreign countries and suggest trading favors to gig up investigations of his opponents. What is going on here? Well, Trump is the culmination of a 70 year old mass movement of people who felt the expansion of American democracy from the New Deal to the end of the Great Society left them losers (certainly a loss of a lot of privilege) and wanted to get back at the perceived traitors of “America – White Man’s Country.” This also what the they mean by “electorate” and the American People. Trump is overwhelmingly popular among White People, 58% of whom voted for him in 2016 and super popular among non-college educated (but often very well off – contrary to David Brooks imaginings) white people, 67% of whom voted for him. And 63% of all white men, college educated and non-college educated voted for Trump. pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/behind-trumps-victory-divisions-by-race-gender-education/ & theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/09/white-voters-victory-donald-trump-exit-polls And the voted for Trump despite the self-dealing and self-enrichment. They voted for him because he is cruel and authoritarian, not despite it. They want a King, someone who will crush their real enemies, the liberals, progressives, uppity women, and non-whites. So no, the Republicans will support Trump, perhaps to the point of civil war. He embodies everything Movement Conservatives have dreamed about for 60 years.
Dev Null
@Cacti:
Disagree, but this is one of those rare cases in which one side is likely to be proven wrong.
sherparick
@Dev Null: Someone should ask Edsall if he is recommending that Democrats throw African-Americans under the bus in a replay of the 19th Century Republican Party throwing them under the bus after the 1876 election?
Steeplejack (phone)
@HumboldtBlue:
That appears to be a fake. It does not appear on Lewinsky’s Twitter time line, and your screen grab has an “@electorotting” watermark, which leads to some asshole’s “humor” account.
Steeplejack (phone)
@cain:
That’s the Gadsden flag.
Dev Null
@sherparick:
I’m 99.8% sure that’s not his view, and I’d guess that he’d be shocked by the question… but it is a very odd conclusion to an otherwise interesting column, especially when you stop to think of the many other directions he could have run with the data.
It’s a very FTFVT “rural swing *cough*Republican*cough* voters at the flyover diner” way of looking at things.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Ladyraxterinok:
Cosby wasn’t a “sidekick” on I Spy. He and Culp were equal costars. Their spy cover was as a tennis pro (Cosby) and his coach (Culp). Hard to make a sidekick out of that.
Major Major Major Major
@Dev Null:
Exactly!
Mandalay
@Major Major Major Major:
I understood perfectly well what you wrote, so shove your condescension. And take you hall monitor schtick somewhere else.
Brachiator
@Steeplejack (phone):
Yep.
You got that reversed.
Elizabelle
@Dev Null: Yesh. Only Dems have agency.
And they must find new stores of empathy for dealing with … deplorables, racists, and retrogrades. Well OK there. Thanks, Tom.
The thing that really got me about this week’s column was his “sources” and those whose voices he used in his column. If he’s not talking to more women (2 to the 14 men there), he is missing out on a lot that is going on. I have no idea if he was talking to all white folks too; the names I recognized had no people of color.
Tom’s rolodex might be as old hat as he is. (Um, well, for being a rolodex … and FWIW, I rather like those things. Although smartphones too!)
Elizabelle
@Mandalay: I agree with Major Major. He’s right. Repetition to dispel something is still repetition. I notice it all the time on cable.
You will also notice how many times jackals don’t notice that something is snark or satire here, because we live in such crazy times and are online too much.
Mark Twain was really not expecting something like that. (Some info from “Quote Investigator” on truth and lies cuz so many times the lines I remember … aren’t …
The phrase “A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on” is attributed to him, although he may have never said it. There is attribution for same sentiment from Swift: “Falsehood flies, and the Truth comes limping after it …”
And it’s especially lame when you air the falsehood over and over. Think of the people who see the video and cannot hear the audio (constant in commercial spaces).
Uncle Cosmo
@Steeplejack (phone): FWIW it reminded me of this parody ad..YMMV.
Dev Null
@Elizabelle:
TBF, Edsall doesn’t say that… quite.
But I agree: that’s how it comes across.
It seems to me that analyses like these have three problems.
First, they are “one side of the equation” analyses. Benefit analyses, without any consideration of the cost side of the ledger.
Yeah, OK, so Dems must find reserve stores of empathy for “undecided voters” on the “issue of ‘race'”.
How does a Dem express that empathy without buying into the undecided’s (ahem) “undecidedness on race”? Maybe it’s possible – I dunno – but practical guidance wouldn’t hurt.
Put differently, if a white Dem [1] empathizes with undecideds-on-race … how does that play with the rest of the Dem coalition? It’s one thing to break bread with sinners, but breaking bread and making cooing noises with those who are undecided about discrimination against non-white Dems?
Edsall’s prescription strikes me as having the potential to inflict “disunity costs” on the coalition and psychological costs on the empathizer.
Second, Edsall’s prescription is vague on policy to the point of meaninglessness. What does he mean in practice?
As Sherparick said above, should
When that question can fairly be asked of your Magnum Opus – and it is a fair question – you might wish to rethink your approach. At least the prescription part.
Third, Edsall is proposing a “one size fits all” prescription for generic Dems … but the Dems are a mutli-ethnic coalition party. Surely white Dems and non-white Dems face different issues when it comes to empathizing with undecideds-on-race. Again, what does “empathize with undecideds-on-race” mean in practice.
It seems to me that Edsall teed up an issue, checked the data …
… and then checked out.
[1] I say “white Dem” because it seems to me (an old white guy) that Edsall is writing with old white guy blinders. Yes, white voters are still a majority of the (national) electorate, so he’s addressing a real problem for the Dems … but he seems to me to be providing advice that would sound plausible to old white Dems, rather than advice that the non-white majority of the party is likely to find useful.
Dev Null
@Elizabelle: Oops, forgot to address the second part of your comment, sorry.
Yes. As I said, the impression I came away with is that he’s addressing old white Dems like himself, and has kinda missed the self-awareness part.
In view of the growing rift between the GOP and suburban women, a panel (de facto) with only ~12% women seems like a good way to miss the boat. And I agree, with his old white guy blinders (if that’s what’s going on) his analysis probably isn’t reliable when it comes to issues affecting PoC… just as (I think) is the case with his column 5 weeks ago.
I didn’t expect to write so many words when I quoted his column, but yeah, I’ve been finding Edsall kinda irritating lately.
Dev Null
@Major Major Major Major: At the risk of beating a dead horse:
1) first impressions can be difficult to shake;
2) people who skim (*cough*like me*cough*) might not even read the concluding para in which the troll is revealed for what it is. And even if skimmers read the reveal, becuz of point 1, they might misinterpret the reveal.
Emoticons are cheap.
Elizabelle
@Dev Null: Good analysis.
2liberal
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
baby boomers are not a political party. the clusterfuck was imposed on this nation by republicans and Warren is a very qualified candidate with a democratic agenda.