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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Hail to the Hairpiece / Open Thread: Repubs Shocked to Discover That Professional Vandal Has No Respect for Public Norms

Open Thread: Repubs Shocked to Discover That Professional Vandal Has No Respect for Public Norms

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It’s not so much that Trump’s office blew off Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz, and their fellows… it’s that the best defenders available were a handful of guys like Gym ‘I saw *nuffink*!’ Jordan & Matt ‘What DWI?’ Gaetz. (Bonus laffs: Kevin ‘Sort out the Starbursts’ McCarthy is coordinating their efforts.) From Bloomberg, “Blindsided Trump Allies Urge Better Coordination on Impeachment”:

… Frustrated that they didn’t get a heads-up that Gordon Sondland, U.S. ambassador to the European Union, would be prevented from appearing on Tuesday, a handful of GOP lawmakers went to the White House to discuss the issue with Trump and senior advisers, one of the people said.

In response, White House officials agreed to improve communication of their impeachment strategy with allies who are on the front lines, the people said. They asked not to be identified discussing private conversations between Trump and the lawmakers.

The impromptu huddle highlights the risks of Trump’s vigorous but improvised self-defense against the impeachment inquiry House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced two weeks ago. While many Republicans, especially in the House, are anxious to defend the president, they could step into political danger if they’re caught off guard by Trump’s actions…

Among the lawmakers identified as meeting with Trump on Tuesday were Representatives Jim Jordan of Ohio, Mark Meadows of North Carolina, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Lee Zeldin of New York and Scott Perry of Pennsylvania. Before heading to the White House, the group spoke with reporters outside the congressional offices where Sondland was supposed to testify…

But less than an hour before the testimony was to begin, Robert Luskin, the attorney representing the ambassador, informed the committees that the State Department instructed his client not to appear. Republicans got that information from news reports.

Jordan, who is the senior Republican on the Oversight and Reform Committee, expressed regret that the panels wouldn’t hear from Sondland on Tuesday. But he said he understands why the State Department blocked the deposition “based on the unfair and partisan process” he said Democrats are running…

House Republican are holding almost daily strategy sessions led by Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy to combat the Democratic impeachment effort. Tuesday’s episode was the latest in what some Republicans have complained is the less-than-tight coordination between the White House and Trump’s Republican defenders in Congress…

IMO, “vigorous but improvised self-defense” instead of ‘frantic public tantrum / breakdown’ is one of the better euphemisms we’ve seen this week, but of course it’s only Tuesday.

Reader Interactions

175Comments

  1. 1.

    Mary G

    Their defense is working so well that support for impeachment went up 20% in like 10 days. Seriously, the decision to go with Know-Nothingism is finally biting the Republicans in the ass. McCarthy, Gaetz, and Jordan are very weak reeds to rely on. So is Cipollone with that stupid letter.

    ETA: guessed the spelling and was wrong

  3. 3.

    laura

    I wouldn’t trust gym jordan, meadows, gaetz and McCarty to transport a cat to the vet’s, but I guess you defend impeachment with the clown shoes you have, not the clown shoes you want.
    Hee hee hee hee haw….

  5. 5.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Nice response from Pelosi. I was thinking that something short and sweet would be best, and she does not disappoint.

    For a while, the President has tried to normalize lawlessness. Now, he is trying to make lawlessness a virtue. The American people have already heard the President’s own words – ‘do us a favor, though.’ The President’s actions threaten our national security, violate our Constitution and undermine the integrity of our elections. The White House letter is only the latest attempt to cover up his betrayal of our democracy, and to insist that the President is above the law.

    This letter is manifestly wrong, and is simply another unlawful attempt to hide the facts of the Trump Administration’s brazen efforts to pressure foreign powers to intervene in the 2020 elections. Despite the White House’s stonewalling, we see a growing body of evidence that shows that President Trump abused his office and violated his oath to ‘protect, preserve and defend the Constitution.’

    The White House should be warned that continued efforts to hide the truth of the President’s abuse of power from the American people will be regarded as further evidence of obstruction.

    Mr. President, you are not above the law. You will be held accountable.

  6. 6.

    germy

    My cat put up a vigorous but improvised self-defense when I tried to get her into her carrier for a vet visit. She was unsuccessful.

  7. 7.

    jl

    Thanks for the hilarious quotes from the GOPers. Made me laugh.

    “Blindsided Trump Allies Urge Better Coordination on Impeachment”
    Not sure what that means, they can read twitter as well as the rest of us.

  8. 8.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Pelosi shows why she has the gavel is one of only two politicians in history to become Speaker twice in the last 100 years

  9. 9.

    cain

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    Well, I”m hoping that some people get some serious fines. No need to jail em, just start taking their money.

    The other thing is that they have that power over the budget, if they want to go broke – hold the entire nation’s money hostage until they get them to show up. Let’s see what happens then. It might amek our side uncomfortable, but once those fuckers hand over documents it will start get real apparent that some shady shit is going down.

  12. 12.

    Mary G

    Well, he doesn’t care what Pat Robertson and Lindsay Graham have to say, Turkey’s going ahead to take out the Kurds:

    A bad situation in Northeast Syria is about to get much worse. Sources tell me that US officials have just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next 24 hours. The US will do nothing. Targets are Tal Abyad and Ras al Ayn….— David Ignatius (@IgnatiusPost) October 9, 2019

    …Ironically Tal Abyad was the main supply route for ISIS in 2014-15 through an open border from Turkey. Turkey refused repeated requests from US to shut border. That's a big reason why US decided to partner with SDF, which took the town in the summer of 2015.— David Ignatius (@IgnatiusPost) October 9, 2019

    …I'm also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.— David Ignatius (@IgnatiusPost) October 9, 2019

    I mistakenly put this in the last thread, so I’m repeating it here. I don’t have words to say how horrifying this is. Professional vandal is good, AL.

  13. 13.

    Mary G

    @Mary G: Missed the last tweet.

    …And finally there is the scary issue of the thousands of ISIS detainees and families, who may be breaking out of camps and prisons after Turkish attack–with NO American back-up plan. This is a major disaster coming at us because of Trump's decisions. Hours left to stop it…— David Ignatius (@IgnatiusPost) October 9, 2019

    Putin will make sure to push people to try to migrate.

  14. 14.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    Shit. It seems to me that any administration that has to depend on fuckwads like Gaetz and Jordan is just flat doomed. These are really the people you want to send out to make your case? How fucking sad is that? And how fucking funny is it? I can’t tell whether it’s more funny than sad or the other way around.

    And it isn’t only that they’re dumber than a bag of salted hammers; they’re repellent people personally, less appealing than a hat full of assholes.

  18. 18.

    cain

    Oh man, these two guys – Chris Murphy and Brian Schatz have been doing this back and forth between them like a two man comedy routine. hah!

    Hey @brianschatz I will buy you lunch next week if you somehow work in “Malicious Captain Kangaroo” into your next floor speech.— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) October 8, 2019

  23. 23.

    Gin & Tonic

    In other news, the last of this season’s tomatoes are cooking down into green tomato relish as I write this.

  24. 24.

    cain

    @Mary G:

    They are. They frequently do this back and forth between them. They’ve gotten quite good at it. Super relatable folks I think. It’s that kind of humor that keeps us going.

  26. 26.

    dmsilev

    @cain: Article subhead at the Washington Post this morning:

    It has apparently become necessary to explain to Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz that the classic children’s television show “Captain Kangaroo” was not a courtroom drama.

    Bob Keeshan, the actor who played Captain Kangaroo, was not a captain, a kangaroo or even Australian.

  27. 27.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @ Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) : Thanks. That’s a nice explanation and history. I still don’t see how Congress would enforce a fine though. The fact that the AG is part of the problem means they can’t rely on Justice to enforce anything. I have to admit I’d kind of like to see one of them go to jail.

  29. 29.

    Dan B

    @Mary G: The abandonment of the Kurds, the end of Open Skies, and the Supreme Court LGBR cases have me in a horrible funk. Chaos is on the move aided by our leaders. And they want to destroy Medicare and Social Security. I get my first SS check tomorrow and the economy seems to be about to collapse.

    Hard to find the strength to keep on keeping on. But I’m imagining the darkness means the dawn will soon follow.

  30. 30.

    Kay

    Jordan
    @JordanUhl
    ·11m
    The Trump Economy: For the first time in history, U.S. billionaires paid a lower tax rate than the working class last year

    Gross.

  32. 32.

    Raven

    @Dan B: I started mine a couple of months short of my 70th to finance some fishing trips, my first pension check should be here shortly!

  35. 35.

    SFAW

    @cain:

    Hey @brianschatz I will buy you lunch next week if you somehow work in “Malicious Captain Kangaroo” into your next floor speech.— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) October 8, 2019

    Few people know this, but “Malicious Captain Kangaroo” is an anagram for “Drunk Moron Matt Gaetz.” Sort of.

  37. 37.

    Mary G

    @Dan B: I know. I was almost in tears Sunday night with the abandonment of the Kurds and even thought about just getting drunk and stop reading the news. But that’s what they want:

    My latest, for USA Today: Russia's 2016 chaos bomb defines the Trump presidency, right up to Ukraine and Syria https://t.co/wjsT8XYVmW via @usatoday— David Rothkopf (@djrothkopf) October 8, 2019

    I’ll be damned if I let Vlad gaslight me.

  38. 38.

    Ohio Mom

    @cain: Oh I disagree. Fines are not enough, jail time is absolutely necessary. It underlines that no one is above the law, and it makes for good TV.

    For all those people who are not clear on what is going on, a nice visual of convicted Trump administration officials sporting striped outfits/jumpsuits will communicate loud and clear, these people broke the law.

    Also, being incarcerated is a drag and they deserve it.

  40. 40.

    Dan B

    @Raven: Self employed for 40 years so SS was a big part of the retirement plan. Luckily I made big money several years in a row early on – worked for a lot of clients who made big bucks cutting down trees. So the SS should keep me going but not if the GOP pulls off their coup.

  47. 47.

    Sab

    @Mary G: Called Rob Portman (Ohio) office and amazingly one he had staff answering, and two they were tolerant of my point of view.

    Call, call, call your Congress critter and Senators to let them know you are horrified.I think we are getting through.

  48. 48.

    Aleta

    (Lawfare, Peter Margulies) On Oct. 4, President Trump issued a proclamation that bars otherwise qualified visa applicants from entry into the United States unless they are likely to obtain “approved health insurance” within 30 days of entry. The insurance test relies on 8 U.S.C. § 1182(f), authorizing the president to bar entry of foreign nationals “detrimental to the interests of the United States”—the same provision that Trump used for his travel ban, which the Supreme Court upheld in Trump v. Hawaii.

    But while the Supreme Court in Hawaii relied on the national security and foreign affairs rationale for the travel ban, the insurance test targets the very different issue of immigrants’ financial resources. The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) specifically addresses this issue in 8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(4) by barring the admission of a foreign national who is “likely … to become a public charge.” If a challenge to the insurance test ensues and the case reaches the Supreme Court, the outcome will show whether the court believes § 1182(f) is a wide-ranging grant of power to the president to shape all immigration law to his liking, or a more cabined grant focusing on national security and foreign affairs.

    Under the new insurance test, which will take effect on Nov. 3, “approved” plans include employer health insurance plans but cannot include a government subsidy—meaning that Obamacare recipients would be unable to sponsor otherwise qualifying relatives. The insurance test bars the entry of spouses, adult children, parents and siblings of U.S. citizens who would otherwise be eligible for visas, as well as the spouses of lawful permanent residents (LPRs). It does not bar the admission of refugees or the minor children of U.S. citizens and LPRs. However, the exemption of minor children highlights hardships created by the test. For example, a U.S. citizen or LPR without approved health insurance would be able to obtain a visa for his foreign national minor children but would not be able to obtain a visa for his wife, even though she is the mother of those children. The full impact of the insurance test will fall on families in which the primary breadwinner works for a salary at or just above the minimum wage: People in this group often lack employer health insurance plans.
    …

  53. 53.

    Barbara

    @Mary G: Every time I see their bs announcements I smile a little because the address is in the condo complex where I lived many moons ago. I wonder what the neighbors think.

  56. 56.

    Dan B

    @Mary G: I get down at times but have realized it’s best to just go with the feelings. They will pass but nit if I stuff them.

    Rothkopf is right but it seems like the war is nearly worldwide. It’s the dying gasp of the fossil fuel billionaires. Putin is just trying to disrupt movements that would help the conversion to the renewable energy economy. There are other oligarchies based upon resources as in Brasil but they share the dislike of keeping oil in the ground.

  59. 59.

    gene108

    @Mary G:

    Would love for someone to clarify, with McCarthy that when he told Paul Ryan Trump’s on Putin’s payroll, what exactly did he base this on? Is there something Kevin isn’t sharing?

  60. 60.

    Leto

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: So you’re saying other officers of the law… people who swore an oath to the Constitution, not Bill Barr or other officials? Yeah, I’ll still go with officers of the law serving a warrant for an arrest.

  61. 61.

    jl

    @mrmoshpotato: ‘ Harris must feel scorned. She just gets a “former personal trainer?” ‘

    Warren got a combat decorated former US Marine turned bodybuilder. And bondage S&M. All Harris rates is ‘sex-capades’?
    Unfair. Bias. Or just, W&B are running out of steam.

  63. 63.

    Ohio Mom

    @Sab: That IS amazing. When I call a Portman office, I only get a human about a third of the time. Either he can’t keep interns or they are the laziest bunch.

  64. 64.

    patrick II

    @Mary G:

    It is clear the Turkish – Russian coordination is not a last minute improvisation. For whatever reason they knew which way trump was going to go when Erdogan said “jump!”

  67. 67.

    MomSense

    The news is just – ugh. I was too busy to check in on anything today and then finally tonight I started reading. I’m so angry.

  68. 68.

    Leto

    @jl: I guess they shot their load all at once on Warren.

    I’ll see myself out. BJ after starts now; tip your servers!

  69. 69.

    mrmoshpotato

    @jl: Not sure, but they should fire their writers (themselves) (and proofreaders) out of a cannon and into the sun.

  70. 70.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Ohio Mom:
    Heard some ad on the radio praising Portman for standing up for healthcare and “trying to take patients out of the claims process” or something. Paid for by a physicians group. He’s not up for reelection until 2022. WTF?

  72. 72.

    NotMax

    Heh. Dolt 45 campaign ad just aired during commercial break on … MSNBC.

    (Dunno if it was a network buy or a local market cut-in.)

  73. 73.

    schrodingers_cat

    @MomSense: I am heartsick about what ShaMo (Shah-Modi) are doing in India. It seems like they will not be happy unless rivers of blood flow in every state and every town like they did in the border areas between India and Pakistan during partition. They are opening every fissure in Indian society and reopening many wounds. And they don’t have the equivalent of Nancy Pelosi or the Democratic party either. The opposition is MIA.

  74. 74.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    No problem. This is something nobody ever saw coming. A lot like letting the elected Secretarys of State of US states oversee their own election. A recipe for corruption and abuse and nobody saw the potential apparently. Or perhaps they did and were fine with that

  76. 76.

    Ohio Mom

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Okay, we are just going to accept that if you are rich and powerful enough to hire your own security, it’s too hard to arrest you so we’re not going to bother? That’s just giving up on any idea of equal before the law, of the rule of law, of democracy…

    At this point I’m about ready to say, then shoot ‘em like they are a Black male just minding his own business.

  77. 77.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @NotMax:
    If the Trump campaign wants to waste their own money, I applaud them for that. Please proceed dipshits

  78. 78.

    Mary G

    @Barbara: I know I’d hate it. They call it “Election 2020 Headquarters” then it’s a TV on the stairs by the driveway with two extension cords. Somewhere I read that a bunch of hecklers showed up for the Liz Warren bit, and they asked the security guard they’d hired to run them off and he said no, because the sidewalk is public property. It’s almost performance art at this point, except that some old yahoos believe them.

  83. 83.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Ohio Mom:

    Okay, we are just going to accept that if you are rich and powerful enough to hire your own security, it’s too hard to arrest you so we’re not going to bother?

    Bill was talking about their government security detail. As in agents that work for the federal government. The cabinet members especially have these details, not private ones

  84. 84.

    Leto

    @NotMax: That ad has been running for almost a week now during Maddow’s time slot. I’m not sure who they think they’re targeting but ok… good thirty second clip of 100% lies. Kewl.

  85. 85.

    Leto

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:

    Leto
    October 8, 2019 at 9:39 pm
    @?BillinGlendaleCA: So you’re saying other officers of the law… people who swore an oath to the Constitution, not Bill Barr or other officials? Yeah, I’ll still go with officers of the law serving a warrant for an arrest.

    ?

    EDIT: Some of the officials do have private security. Again, try to stop an officer of the law from executing a warrant.

    Here’s who can receive “official” federal protection. Note how limited it is: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/IF10843.pdf

  86. 86.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Starfish: Sure, who’s doing the garnishing? We’re talking high level employees of the Executive Branch, might as well ask the US Attorney to bring up the contempt referrals.

    @Ohio Mom: We’re not talking about people hiring private security, we’re talking about sworn officers on each side.

  87. 87.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Leto:

    Some of the officials do have private security.

    The NBC piece that Goku linked to was talking about Cabinet level folk who have government security, that’s what I was referring to.

  90. 90.

    mrmoshpotato

    Regarding Stonekettle’s tweet, won’t someone think of JEB!’s virgin ears?!

    Also, please clap.

  91. 91.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    We’re not talking about people hiring private security, we’re talking about sworn officers on each side.

    With the practicalities of arresting high-level executive appointees addressed, at the end of the day though, aren’t the security details protecting criminals? Clearly, assholes like Barr, Pompeo, etc are obstructing Congress from exercising their oversight powers by refusing to turn over requested documents and testify before the Committees. That makes them accessories

  94. 94.

    Leto

    @NotMax: I usually blank out too, but sometimes we’re a few mins behind so we’re fast forwarding through commercials. When I saw it air the first time, I was like, “WTF???”, did watch it and was just laughed.

  96. 96.

    Ohio Mom

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: You’re right, I stand corrected, I finally went and read the NBC article.

    Which was long on listing the challenges of forcing compliance and rather short on what it means for the Republic if Congress isn’t able to follow through.

  99. 99.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    Yes.

    Security officials also said the level of protection provided was determined by a variety of factors, such as the sensitivity of the issues being handled by the agency or department, the visibility of the protected official to the public, travel needs, and the officials’ personal preferences. Finally, GAO reported in 2000 that the primary PDD personnel employed at 11 agencies, including 2 offices of Inspectors General, were deputized as U.S. Marshals to provide them with needed law enforcement authorities.

  102. 102.

    Percysowner

    Bernie Sanders is changing the “nature” of his campaign, for what its worth

    JUST IN: After returning from his visit to the cardiologist @BernieSanders tells us he is prepared to change the "nature" of his campaign. He said he plans to scale back his travel and the number of events he participates in. pic.twitter.com/IqUzM9stRN— Ryan Nobles (@ryanobles) October 8, 2019

  104. 104.

    Sab

    When my aunt died my uncle was lonely so he got a cocker spaniel. When he died I took in his cocker. Six week waiting list for the
    groomer. Got his fur shaved, and now its 40 degrees at night and not much warmer in the morning.

    Sweet sweet elderly cocker doesn’t deserve this, having been a very good boy all his life.

  105. 105.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Mary G:

    A problem with fining them is that it’s Steve Munchkin running the Treasury, and the odds of him agreeing to garnish salaries are none.

    The House could withhold funds for the Treasury Department until Mnuchin agrees

    ETA: OMB, since they garnish wages

  106. 106.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Another Scott:
    Huh. I thought boy wonder, Mick Mulvaney, was heading both the WH and the OMB? I guess they finally found a hack to fill the slot. I’m sure babysitting Trump is a full time job

  107. 107.

    Another Scott

    In case we need a reminder…. Twitter:

    Joyce Alene Verified account @JoyceWhiteVance

    No one prevents a witness who can exonerate them from testifying.

    9:10 AM – 8 Oct 2019

    (via commiegirl1)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    Mary G

    @Percysowner: Bernie’s daughter-in-law, age 46, came down with a mystery disease three weeks ago. Turned out to be cancer and she just died. Condolences to their family.

  110. 110.

    Kent

    @mrmoshpotato:

    @Mary G: Harris must feel scorned. She just gets a “former personal trainer?”

    Ahhh….these yahoos.

    That should be her response! “How come Elizabeth got BDSM wth an ex-Marine and all I got is “sexcapades” with a “former personal trainer?”

  116. 116.

    Mary G

    Turns out bats talk and 60% of what they say is arguments, including a whole category of calls for “males making unwanted mating advances” and another for when “a bat argues with another bat sitting too close.“ https://t.co/DasX9Oo3Ah— Celeste Ng (@pronounced_ing) October 8, 2019

  119. 119.

    Jay

    @Sab:

    Sweaters. GG had a down puffy vest and booties with leggings so she could deal with the cold, ( short coat, two TPLO’s, lots of stainless steel, my $6,000 Bionic pit x, worth every penny) . Wood fires and puffy doggie bed to keep artheritis abey.

  120. 120.

    Sab

    @Ohio Mom: Yes I was amazed. Next time I get through I will comment on how inaccessible his constituents feel his office is.

    Sherrod Brown’s guys are always there, even if they think you will chew their ears off.

  121. 121.

    Another Scott

    GovExec:

    Federal employees being asked to disobey congressional mandates related to an impeachment inquiry into President Trump will have difficult decisions to make as they chart a path forward, legal experts say, but will have certain protections available to them.

    The State Department on Tuesday refused to make U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland available for a scheduled deposition related to Trump’s interactions with Ukraine, and House Democrats now say they will issue a subpoena to demand his testimony. If the administration continues to block him and other employees from complying with Congress, it could put individuals in a precarious legal position. Pat Cipollone, counsel to the president, sent a letter to House leaders Tuesday afternoon informing Congress the administration will not comply with any element of the probe.

    “President Trump and his administration reject your baseless, unconstitutional efforts to overturn the democratic process,” Cipollone wrote. “Your unprecedented actions have left the president with no choice. In order to fulfill his duties to the American people, the Constitution, the executive branch and all future occupants of the Office of the Presidency, President Trump and his administration cannot participate in your partisan and unconstitutional inquiry under these circumstances.”

    As Congress continues to widen its net for documents and testimony, employees subject to conflicting demands have two options, legal experts told Government Executive. The first is to violate orders from management and give Congress what it wants, assuming protections under whistleblower law. A second possibility is to exercise federal employees’ statutory “right to disobey” orders that violate laws, rules or regulations.

    While Trump expanded the “right to disobey” when he signed the Follow the Rules Act in 2017, Dan Meyer, who has served in several positions in the federal government including most recently as executive director of Intelligence Community Whistleblowing and Source Protection and is now a managing partner at the law firm Tully Rinckey, said the safest path is for employees to follow orders and file a grievance later. Case law and the letter of the statute suggest employees cannot legally refuse to carry out an order, Meyer said. Even that decision can be a difficult one for most federal employees, he added.

    “The best way to advance your career in the short term is to obey management,” Meyer said. “That’s the sad part about it.”

    Debra D’Agostino, founding partner at the Federal Practice Group, agreed the “general rule” for federal workers is to comply with their boss’ directive, then complain about it through legal channels. She added, however, that the current situation is different than most as “there is going to be personal liability for failing to cooperate with Congress.” If employees do not play their cards right, she cautioned, they could face obstruction of justice charges and a lifetime ban from federal service. D’Agostino advised employees not to rely on internal agency counsel, who could be compromised.

    Both attorneys suggested employees create a paper trail to document they knew the order was wrong, but that they had no choice but to follow it.

    “You want that grievance in place,” Meyer said. “You want that paperwork to say ‘I did what I was told, but I reported it.’ ” He added if the employees then get called before Congress, “you can show as evidence that you wanted to do the right thing.”

    Employees could run into trouble if they simply comply with management’s requests and do not take any steps to signal their congressional defiance.

    “The defense, ‘I was just doing what I was told,’ only goes so far,” D’Agostino said. “In most cases where you should know better, you should know better, and you’re going to be held responsible.”

    […]

    More at the link.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  125. 125.

    Amir Khalid

    @Mary G:
    If they weren’t so fond of crowding together like that, maybe bats wouldn’t spend so much time arguing over personal space or unwelcome advances to their partners. Did they ever think of that, huh?

  126. 126.

    Kay

    elrayser
    @delrayser
    ·3h
    I know we say Trump is an authoritarian so often it lacks meaning, but the President claiming he gets to decide what actions by a coequal branch of government are “legitimate,” and dictate the processes by which that branch operates, is really something

    Nancy’s read the constitution so I don’t think she’ll allow President Trump and his sleazy lawyers rewriting it.

  128. 128.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Another Scott:

    “You want that grievance in place,” Meyer said. “You want that paperwork to say ‘I did what I was told, but I reported it.’ ” He added if the employees then get called before Congress, “you can show as evidence that you wanted to do the right thing.”

    This sounds awful close to the Nuremberg Defense, tbh

  131. 131.

    Jay

    Jack Posobiec, who pushed Pizzagate conspiracy, worked with the Alt-Right, and tweeted about "1488," now attacking the Kurdish movement because for years anarchists, antifascists, and anti-capitalists have fought along side the YPG and YPJ against ISIS. pic.twitter.com/mEgjgOZFOo— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) October 8, 2019

  132. 132.

    Another Scott

    Twitter:

    Jonathan Ladd @jonmladd

    Jonathan Ladd Retweeted Leader McConnell

    LOL. In 1868, the House voted to impeach before even deciding what articles would be the basis for it. Specific articles were approved by the House a week later.

    Leader McConnell Verified account @senatemajldr

    So far, the House has fallen far short by failing to follow the same basic procedures that it has followed for every other President in our history.

    7:29 PM – 8 Oct 2019

    (via nycsouthpaw)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  133. 133.

    Belafon

    I haven’t posted here as often as I used to, but I know all of you still love pets. The daughter of a friend of ours adopted a dog that was hit by a car. The dog suffered a broken leg, and will need surgery to fix it, and she needs help:

    Zena is a 11-month-old Great Pyrenees dog that was a stray until we met. She was hit by a car on the way to work one afternoon and now has a broken right front leg. This leg requires surgery in order to fix properly. The money raised here will help me pay for her surgery to have her leg fixed. She is a sweet, loving dog who loves cuddles and lots of treats. She means so much to me; she is becoming my emotional support dog to help me with everything going on in my life. I have my own struggles that I have to face along with her that make it hard for me to pay this amount of money. I am a full-time college student working part time, I had ovarian cancer that was removed in January. Zena came into my life for a reason and I feel that we are meant to be each other’s person and dog. She helps me by loving me and protecting me, and I help her by loving her and showing her how her life should be. She should be able to play with as many toys as she wants cuddle and be spoiled. Her favorite thing to do is lay in the bed and cuddle, she loves to be petted and if her leg where better she would love to chase toys and run around. I would be so grateful if y’all will help make Zena better so she can play with other puppies and continue to have a better life in a loving home such as mine.

    There are some great pictures of the dog, and a nasty x-ray of the double break.

  134. 134.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Another Scott:

    I’ve always thought that “Leader McConnell” thing he does instead of “Maj. Leader McConnell” is so lame. I have to wonder if he ever bothers to write those tweets or he has his office write them for him

  135. 135.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @Sab:
    Speaking of Portman, he isn’t up for reelection until 2022, but I heard some ad on the radio pumping him for defending healthcare or such bs paid for by some physicians group. I can’t fathom why they’re running ads this early

  139. 139.

    Kay

    Jason Campbell
    @JasonSCampbell
    · 44m
    Fox guest accuses congressional Democrats of “regicide” and calls the whistelblowers “suicide bombers”

    reg·i·cide
    the action of killing a king.

    Now they’re just saying it straight out.

  140. 140.

    Jay

    @Sab:

    Check out second hand shops for sleeping bags, in the mean time.

    Moar popcorn and cuddles in the short term.

  142. 142.

    Sally

    @Kent: Or they could have a competition, “my paramour versus yours” in a triathlon or such. With a swimsuit parade, though these women might find that too objectifying. Fundraising bonanza! Maybe wait till Jack and Jake have got all their wish list out. Double entendre intended.

  143. 143.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    Ryan vows to stay in race

    WARREN — U.S. Rep. Tim Ryan won’t be on the Democratic presidential debate stage Oct. 15 and will almost certainly miss the November one, but he said he plans to stay in the race until at least the end of February.

    […]

    Ryan participated in the first two Democratic presidential debates — which had lower thresholds — but failed to qualify for the third debate, Sept. 12, and won’t qualify for the fourth debate, Oct. 15 in Westerville. That’s because the threshold increased for the third and fourth debates. Candidates needed at least 130,000 unique donors with a minimum of 400 different donors from at least 20 states, and at least 2 percent support in four qualifying polls.

    Ryan had about 13,000 donors as of June 30, his most recent campaign finance report. While that’s grown, Ryan won’t say by how much. But it’s not close to 130,000.

    Also, Ryan hasn’t reached 2 percent in any qualifying poll.

    The deadline to qualify for the Ohio debate is 11:50 p.m. today so Ryan has no chance to make it. Twelve candidates qualified.

    […]

    “We’re going to grow the campaign,” he said. “We’re starting to get people today who weren’t calling me back a month ago. They’re reading the tea leaves, and Biden is starting to struggle.”

    Ryan lost his national organizing director, Zach Fang, to entrepreneur Andrew Yang, who’s qualified for all of the debates, and has once again changed his communications director.

    Ryan said a new national organizing director will be selected shortly and he’s hired Dennis Willard, who heads Precision New Media in Columbus, to handle communications.

    Willard started the company in 2010 after a lengthy career as a newspaper reporter. Willard has done communications work for numerous Ohio Democratic candidates and committees and has also done so in 10 other states as well as work for nonprofits and in the private sector.

    Willard, a Mahoning Valley native, said he will do communications work for Ryan until the candidate finds a permanent replacement and then will be a communications consultant for the campaign.

    “I’ve been a big supporter of him,” he said. “I want to raise the awareness of who he is and what a powerful leader he can be.”

    LOL. Sure, he’s a “powerful leader”, while he’s been nothing but a backbencher his entire career. My congressman, everybody. Ryan just needs to accept the fact he’s not going to be anything more than a House Rep

  144. 144.

    Another Scott

    @SFAW: I’ve heard them called “initialisms”, myself. ;-)

    If one pronounces it like a word, it’s an acronym (BASIC, COBOL, radar, laser, HIPAA, etc.).

    OPM, OMB, CIA, USA, PPACA, etc., are initialisms.

    /uber-pedant!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  148. 148.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: Dude, the reason we have these mechanisms–impeachment, elections–is so we don’t have to ever kill a king. That’s the point.

  150. 150.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @SFAW: @Another Scott:

    I think Scott is correct here

    From this piece:

    Ryan, D-Howland, points out that Bill Clinton didn’t get into the 1992 presidential race until October 1991 and went on to win the Democratic nomination and the presidency. However, politics has significantly changed since then. Anyone getting into the presidential race now — the equivalent of Clinton in 1991 — wouldn’t have a chance of capturing the nomination. Also, while Clinton wasn’t well-known when he ran for president, he was governor of Arkansas. Ryan is a congressman from the Mahoning Valley.

    Also, Ryan continues to struggle to raise money and improve his polling numbers.

    His showing in the polls has declined since he entered the race back in April. He’s not even at 1 percent nationally and is at the back of the pack among Democratic presidential candidates.

    Ryan dismissed it, saying, “I don’t take much stock in the polls.”

    […]

    Ryan said Warren and Sanders are far too liberal to get elected as they want to eliminate private insurance and replace it with “Medicare for All,” and both want to ban fracking.

    “You ban fracking, and Pennsylvania and Colorado become lean Republican states,” he said. “That can’t be the position if we want to win. If the position (they) are taking stays the same, it’s going to be very hard to beat (Republican President Donald) Trump.”

    I think his political instincts are bunk myself. It’s not hard to get elected in the Mahoning Valley if you have a D after your name, usually

  153. 153.

    Jay

    A member of the IRPGF (International Revolutionary People’s Guerrilla Forces), Şehîd Kawa Amed, or Paolo Todd, was a Native warrior who was involved in the struggle at Standing Rock before traveling to Rojava. He was killed in early 2019 while fighting against ISIS. pic.twitter.com/Vgj8MsRD4Z— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) October 8, 2019

  154. 154.

    Jay

    Lorenzo Orsetti, was an Italian anarchist who fought with a variety of armed anarchist and antifascist groups in defense of Rojava. He was killed in March of 2019 by one of the last battalions of ISIS fighters, who celebrated his death over their media channels. pic.twitter.com/TUWwltg9Od— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) October 8, 2019

  155. 155.

    ??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??

    @NotMax:

    Politically raking the forest floor

    Lol

    Or he harbors delusions of replacing Pence on the ticket. Or both.

    It’s an interesting question if evangelicals would get pissed if Pence was 86’d from the ticket. My magic 8-ball says, “no” tbh

  160. 160.

    moops

    Can’t a part of NATO back the Kurds? keep the area from being a genocide? I mean, we are only a day away from a Bosnia situation. in 24 hours it will be full ethnic cleansing.

  162. 162.

    Steeplejack

    @Sab:

    Get him a $20 heating pad at Target. Wrap it in a throw in his dog bed. He’ll love it.

    (Timer length is important. The housecat’s is two hours, which is pretty good.)

  163. 163.

    Jay

    Like those American volunteers, many from the ranks of working class anti-capitalist movements, who traveled from the US to fight in the Spanish Civil War against fascism, if we don't remember these people, then their memory will be lost forever. pic.twitter.com/Bn9DNDzhCz— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) October 8, 2019

  164. 164.

    Kent

    @moops:

    Can’t a part of NATO back the Kurds? keep the area from being a genocide? I mean, we are only a day away from a Bosnia situation. in 24 hours it will be full ethnic cleansing.

    Turkey is NATO.

    And Syria isn’t covered by NATO. So I mean yes, the Germans or French could parachute in but this isn’t a NATO situation.

  165. 165.

    moops

    @Kent: yes, we have an obvious problem that a massive a ruthless and well-armed genocide is going to start tomorrow and wipe out the Kurds. Who can stop this. It will happen and we even know roughly the hour. but who would act? do we have no diplomats to give us guidance and recommend action?

  168. 168.

    J R in WV

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    @Leto: I don’t think that in the case of cabinet officials, it’s private security.

    Well, I thot we were talking about ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland — not a cabinet officer, just a critical witness.

    Obviously they want to pick a large group of relevant witnesses less likely to have Secret Service or other federal protection. They should arrest a whole platoon all at once before dawn in raids, like taking down a whole mafia family, because that is what they are!

  169. 169.

    SFAW

    @Another Scott:

    That’s nice.

    Considering the term “initialism” is in about as common as puns in Aramaic, “abbreviations” works fine. [For the record: I agree that “initialism” may be a more accurate term. But it appears to be a specialized case of an abbreviation.]

  170. 170.

    SFAW

    @moops:

    yes, we have an obvious problem that a massive a ruthless and well-armed genocide

    The Turks are just pissed that they didn’t get to do it to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Armenian genocide. Which they still deny, of course, and get really pissed at anyone who has the temerity to mention it.

    I would not be upset to learn that the Joint Chiefs countermanded the Traitor-in-Chief’s tweet-dictum, and repelled the Ottomans. Not that I think that would ever happen.

  171. 171.

    NotMax

    Another possibility is that it’s a talisman seeking wish fulfillment, from a rally rat.

    (Ewww.)

  172. 172.

    Mnemosyne

    @Leto:

    That makes me think that Dolt 45 is watching Maddow on the sly. There’s an old advertising trick where you make sure to put the largest concentration of billboards and bus shelter ads along the route of your client’s commute so they feel like you’re really making good use of the money they pay you. I suspect a similar process here.

  174. 174.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:

    I think his political instincts are bunk myself.

    Maybe. Has anyone seen economic analysis of how a nationwide fracking ban would affect natural gas prices? I haven’t – if anyone has a link, I’d appreciate it – but I suspect those prices would go up by quite a bit. And the utilities in GOP-controlled states would use the increases to ask for & get the highest rates they could get away with. And even if they wouldn’t, the Thugs will scream to high heaven that they will.

    Rethuglican ads would almost write themselves:

    (Old couple in kitchen, wearing winter hats, heavy sweaters and gloves. Husband at table looking over bills, wife standing beside him.You can see their breath.)
    H: The heating bill went up again this month.
    W: That’s the fourth month in a row.
    H: Ever since the Democrats banned fracking, natural gas prices have been going through the roof. I guess we’ll have to turn the thermostat down even lower.
    W: I’m already f-f-freezing.
    H: It’s that or groceries. Or our prescriptions.
    W: We can die of hunger or cold or illness. Thank the Democrats!

    I really, really hope someone has a “plan” to counter that sort of thing effectively.

  175. 175.

    Barry

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: ” I was thinking fines are the way to go, but how do you collect them? Can’t they just ignore the imposed fines? I don’t know how that works.”

    I am skipping over some comments, so forgive any redundancy.

    The judge orders all property seized, including houses and bank accounts. The bailiffs physically seize them and padlock the houses. Anybody resisting gets jailed for contempt of court.

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