The two barges involved in the August radiation accident in the White Sea are being towed to a radioactive waste storage site on the Kola Peninsula. It is not known whether they hold the reactor responsible for the explosion and short burst of radiation measured in Severodvinsk.
The United States government has concluded that the incident was pretty much as has been speculated, a nuclear accident of some sort as a nuclear-powered missile was being recovered. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Thomas G. DiNanno told a United Nations committee on October 10 that this was the US conclusion, but it was only two sentences.
The United States has determined that the explosion near Nenoksa, Russia, was the result of a nuclear reaction that occurred during the recovery of a Russian nuclear-powered cruise missile. The missile remained on the bed of the White Sea since its failed test early last year, in close proximity to a major population center.
Nothing to indicate what kind of nuclear reaction or how the United States knows this. The news is that they believe the failed test was in early 2018. The nuclear reaction was most likely a criticality incident, but we still don’t know enough about the reactor to speculate much about that. It’s possible that the government has overhead photos of the test or the recovery, perhaps alerted by someone in Russia who knew the schedules.
Photo: Submarine reactors stored in canisters at the Saida Bay facility, where the barges are being taken. (Thomas Nilsen)
Cross-posted to Nuclear Diner
Martin
I’d bet anything a US attack sub was immediately dispatched to the region. They should be able to get in there undetected and take measurements. According to my dad they’re pretty well equipped for that sort of thing so they know how to navigate around in a nuclear conflict.
My dads sub was part of the search for the Scorpion and they were using that gear to see if there were any nuclear signatures from the loss of the ship. I have to assume the detection gear is VASTLY better in the last 50 years.
NotMax
Is that the same place the remains of the Kursk were towed?
Brachiator
I guess this suggests that watchdog agencies are still able to do their job.
This stuff is an area which I don’t even pretend to understand, so I greatly appreciate your posts on this. Great expertise and perspective.
Ken
In XKCD’s handy reference guide it’s in the lower-left quadrant: A lot more scary than the name might suggest.
Ken
Dang, lower-right quadrant. Dyslexic and no edit button!
Cheryl Rofer
@Martin: These are not international waters.
@NotMax: I am recalling that it was up around Murmansk, but I could be wrong on that.
JaySinWA
In reading the linked article, I understand that the incident was refereed to as a failed test earlier, but was in fact an accident in the attempted recovery of a missile that failed in a much earlier test.
NotMax
For those with any curiosity about chilling true life horror tales, unrelated to this story except for having taken place in the same general area, the Andreev Bay incident.
Yutsano
@NotMax: You ever stop and think maybe we should stop playing with this shit?
Fair Economist
It says something about the state of the Russian military that they could have disasters with *both* the initial test *and* the recovery.
HumboldtBlue
@Cheryl Rofer:
That’s never stopped us before.
Leto
@Martin: There’s a book called Command and Control that is a very informative read. Talks about our nuclear accidents, our close calls, how we’ve upgraded the failsafes… it’s just a really good read with tons of information.
opiejeanne
@Martin: My mom worked for the Navy in Pasadena, Naval Undersea Warfare when the Scorpion disappeared. The place was in an uproar for a long timewhile the search was on.
Another Scott
Are you as disturbed as I am by those people in the picture walking around outside in disposable booties? The implication (that I’m drawing) is that there’s a good chance of radioactive stuff leaking out (maybe in the past, maybe still) and they don’t want their staff tracking it all over tarnation?
It would be, er, unusual to see such a site in the US, wouldn’t it?
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Cheryl Rofer
@Another Scott: People put on booties for all sorts of reasons, including a show of how cool they are that they are walking around in a place that could be contaminated. Also, the safety folks get hyper from time to time.
Bill Arnold
@Leto:
General question for arms control people. I recall reading (well skimming) a book called something like “command and control of nuclear weapons” in the 80s or 90s, and haven’t found it on bookshelves or in google (wanted to look at a few half-remembered details). Does anyone know of such a book? It’s not the 2012 book that you referenced; decades older.
Leto
@Bill Arnold: Maybe this? Nuclear Command and Control in NATO: Nuclear Weapons Operations and the Strategy of Flexible Response
This is good information regarding our modernization efforts. From the Arms Control Association: U.S. Nuclear Modernization Programs (Aug 2018)
HinTN
@Ken: Right smite – this one’s almost as appropriate: https://xkcd.com/1938/
J R in WV
@NotMax:
Perhaps the worst horror story I have ever read that wasn’t fiction.
HinTN
@Another Scott:
In my experience, yes.
Sam
Almost certainly it is an unshielded reactor. Crazy stuff to be flying around, especially flying around your own country. Crazy, crazy weapon. Flying over your own country spewing neutrons like crazy, never mind a crash.
NotMax
@Sam
Not to mention that boron onesies are near impossible to come by.
;)
Cheryl Rofer
@Sam: Yes, it’s crazy. But what Putin has talked about, a nuclear ramjet, would require a chemical engine to get it up to a speed where the nuclear part could operate. Early reports said something about a chemical explosion or propellant, so it’s possible that there was a chemical engine as well. The failure that dumped the missile in the sea would likely have been that the nuclear engine didn’t fire.
ETA: So not a neutron danger this time around. Also, the neutrons are pretty well shielded by air.
NotMax
By the way, neglected to say thank you for the update on this story.
Bill Arnold
@Leto:
No, not that one. I’ll give the bookshelf another look.
Mike in NC
O/T: Watching network news on the rapidly deteriorating situation in Syria. May the betrayal of the Kurds turn out to be Fat Bastard’s Katrina.
Another Scott
@HinTN: Thanks.
s /site/sight
(sigh)
Cheers,
Scott.
Another Scott
@Mike in NC: Al Jazeera:
Nobody could have predicted…
Let’s see – We were allied with the Kurds but also with Turkey via NATO. And we[‘]re fighting Daesh in Syria who was fighting Assad and everyone else. Now Turkey is bombing the US and the Kurds are allying with Syria. I guess that means Turkey will align with Daesh against the Kurds and Putin will just sit back and laugh and laugh.
What do I win?
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Leto
@Bill Arnold: If you find it, let me know. I would be interested in perusing it.
Another Scott
@Bill Arnold: The Command and Control of Nuclear Forces Hardcover – 1983
by Paul Bracken perhaps?
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@Another Scott:
Yes! That’s the one. I recall a large paperback. Now to find it, or buy used. :-) Thanks for the link.
Roger Moore
@Yutsano:
@Sam:
Unfortunately, feeling threatened makes people do crazy stuff. Even worse, the leader of a country is often personally threatened by things that don’t actually threaten the country as a whole, so an unchecked leader will do stuff that’s incredibly dangerous and stupid for the country as a whole in response to a perceived threat against themself personally. We can see this playing out right now in DC.
opiejeanne
@NotMax: Thanks for tonight’s nightmare. Last night it was about being in prison and upon gaining release, being rearrested and jailed, because of something wrong with the baking powder I was using. Oddly, the cops hadn’t removed it from my kitchen even though that’s why I was arrested repeatedly. I looked at the two new cans in the pantry and considered throwing out the one that I kept getting arrested for.