Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We will not go quietly into the night; we will not vanish without a fight.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

People are complicated. Love is not.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Election 2020 Open Thread: The FTFNYTimes Defends Its #1 Priority

Election 2020 Open Thread: The FTFNYTimes Defends Its #1 Priority

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  4. 4.

    smintheus

    This plea for more and bigger spending is about as convincing as a hard sell orchestrated by a handful of Fargo car salesmen.

  5. 5.

    Patricia Kayden

    Romney has found (or borrowed) a spine.

    Mitt Romney outlined a broad indictment of Trump, criticizing his rhetoric, his abandonment of the Kurds, his plea to Ukraine and China to undermine a political opponent, his character and past personal life.https://t.co/fdQMijirdt— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) October 20, 2019

  6. 6.

    Ken

    Who in America is at risk of forgetting Trump is bad if they go 24 hours without seeing a Facebook ad.

    It could only happen if Trump were to shut up and keep out of the news for the same 24 hours. So, never.

  7. 7.

    NotMax

    So long as they are actively permitting ads consisting of demonstrable lies run unimpeded, I’m going to start referring them Twofacedbook.

  10. 10.

    Lit3Bolt

    Trump: I think I should call my campaign headquarters Evil Inc.

    Rick Wilson, Tom Nichols, Mitt Romney: That’s stupid. Call it Hillary Is Evil, Inc.

    The current state of soul searching among Republicans, ladies and gentlemen.

  11. 11.

    Duane

    @smintheus: The folks that sell facebook ads want to sell more of them. Imagine that. The hucksters don’t just sell health supplements. Nice ad placement in the FNYT though.

  12. 12.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    I think most of the public is so sick of Cheeto Benito that his ads are counterproductive. They just further remind people they want him off their TV, internet, etc.

  14. 14.

    Villago Delenda Est

    These vile people are simply mercenary parasites.

    The Founders roll over in their graves. Not what they ever imagined.

  17. 17.

    glory b

    This is also why, in their reporting, money is everything to them. Sanders had the best week, because he raised the most cash.

    The fact that his numbers have been stuck where they are since forever doesn’t seem to matter.

    I pointed out to my kids that the people talking about this on television work for businesses that expect to get a big chunk of the money being raised, so take theur pronouncements with a grain of salt.

  18. 18.

    rikyrah

    FB changed its policy about false ads in the.middle of the night,.with no notice. Cause they ain’t shyt, and didn’t want the hassle of coming up with a fancy excuse as to why they were violating their own policy. They wanted to take the money in peace for the lying ads.
    Once again..
    FB ain’t shyt ???

  19. 19.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Patricia Kayden: I was considering this; if Trump and Pence have to resign, Mittens is the only Republican with stature who isn’t implicated on this mess who could replace them.

  20. 20.

    Cacti

    @glory b:

    This is also why, in their reporting, money is everything to them. Sanders had the best week, because he raised the most cash.

    The fact that his numbers have been stuck where they are since forever doesn’t seem to matter.

    Those AOC and Michael Moore endorsements are great news…

    For his competitors.

  21. 21.

    Splitting Image

    Sounds like the New York Times is advising people to close their Facebook accounts and install a stronger ad blocker.

  23. 23.

    Amir Khalid

    @rikyrah:
    Hillary was, and is, dead-on right about Trump. Unfortunately, in pointing out his racism she may have succeeded at the wrong thing: reminding the white racists that he was one of them.

  27. 27.

    glory b

    @Cacti: Grrr, don’t get me going about Michael Moore again! Every time I turned msnbc on the other day, he was on!
    The big news would have been if AOC didn’t endorse him. Her endorsement wasn’t much IMO.

  28. 28.

    Ruckus

    Who in America is at risk of forgetting Trump is bad if they go 24 hours without seeing a Facebook ad.

    Not me for sure, I go weeks without seeing anything on FuckBook. I used to be on there quite a bit, have lots of friends and that was how we kept up and how I found out who liked shit for brains. At least I know who aren’t my friends any longer.

  29. 29.

    West of the Rockies

    @rikyrah:

    I’m sure you know that the racists and homophobics, and misogynists will vote for Trump again. Those who are not those things will not.

  30. 30.

    hells littlest angel

    I see two levels of horrible here:

    1. The political zeitgeist is being driven by a bunch of cold-blooded cynics who think it’s all about a propaganda war, and nothing else matters.
    2. They may be right.

  31. 31.

    Cacti

    @glory b:

    The big news would have been if AOC didn’t endorse him. Her endorsement wasn’t much IMO.

    I saw she called his heart attack a “gut check moment”.

    Which I guess is accurate, insofar as it means “is likely to die before 2024”.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @glory b: The big news would have been if AOC didn’t endorse him. Her endorsement wasn’t much IMO.

    Yeah, I hate Bernie and I’m ambivalent about Ocasio-Cortez, but I think his cult is larger and much more invested than her fan base

    @hells littlest angel: 2. They may be right.

    I’ll relax, or start looking into Irish or French or Canadian citizenship, when I see polls in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania a year from now

  34. 34.

    Mary G

    @Ruckus: That was my first thought – liberals don’t spend hours a day liking things on FB.

    ETA: is it me, or is the FTFNYT getting worse as time goes on? Putting the report about the investigation into Hillary’s emails found no wrongdoing on page 16 and only after they got dragged on Twitter?

  36. 36.

    randy khan

    What’s most interesting to me about this story is that Trump is spending so much on ads now – more than a year ahead of the election. It seems to me that you wouldn’t be doing that unless you thought you needed to shore up your support, as nobody is going to remember these ads a year from now.

    Or your consultants have figured out they will make the most money if they run a lot of fundraising ads to get more money to spend later. I could go either way.

  37. 37.

    hells littlest angel

    @Cacti: I saw she called his heart attack a “gut check moment”.

    About 15 inches north of a gut check, I’d say. But it’s an easy mistake to make because old men pull their pants up so high.

  38. 38.

    Ruckus

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:
    Dense might resign, if Mother told him to, shit for brains will never resign. His feeble brain won’t allow him to, because he’d have to admit he is wrong to do that. That ain’t gonna happen. Unless someone paid him to. That might do the trick, but I doubt it. He gets to say anything he wants, to anyone he wants, he has a plane that takes him wherever he wants and none of this costs him a dime. He’s gone this long without reading anything handed to him or doing any conceivable work whatsoever, what could possibly make him resign?

  40. 40.

    Ruckus

    @debbie:
    Noticed your snark tags but I was going to say that there is about as much chance of that as of me being the queen of all Africa. Which is to say, far less than zero.

  41. 41.

    Another Scott

    @randy khan: Or Donnie is continuing his MO of trying to be in the news every.single.day and trying to guide the discussion so that it is only.about.him. Spending money on ads makes FB pay even more attention to him, so he’s working the refs, so to speak.

    The best thing the country could do is quit paying attention to what he says and how he tries to rile everyone up, and instead concentrate on what he and his administration is doing. And supporting every candidate and organization that is working to vote the monsters out.

    Not that I expect us all to resist the siren call of Donnie’s latest travesty… :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  42. 42.

    Sally

    @randy khan: Or maybe they figured they have to make their money now before he becomes too toxic and they’re unable to “fundraise” off him.

  43. 43.

    Ruckus

    @Mary G:
    FTFNYT hovers right around being totally in trump’s ass and every once in a while allowing someone to write something worth the ink. That is not going to change until the owners do. The owners want the crap they publish, to be the crap they publish. If they didn’t, they’d change it. They are in it 10000% for the conservative side and trump is their leader, such as that is. As long as he doesn’t hurt their bottom line it will not change.

  44. 44.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Amir Khalid:

    Unfortunately, in pointing out his racism she may have succeeded at the wrong thing: reminding the white racists that he was one of them.

    That was exactly how the Deplorables speech played out. Assholes flocked to the opportunity to be loud and proud about what assholes they are.

  45. 45.

    Ruckus

    @Leto:
    I do not but I can help you out with info for sure. I even have a nice carbon fiber bike – my personal one, that is for sale. My health stuff really does not allow me to ride.

  47. 47.

    Marcopolo

    So I don’t think anyone has mentioned this yet, but there are two things that everyone thinking about how FB works should keep in mind: 1) folks under thirty don’t really use it and much like IA, OH, & MO the average FB user is now 50+, Caucasian, and not the most educated person (ie FB & Fox have converging user profiles); and 2) FB promotes content on the basis of how well it activates user engagement (things that provoke an emotional reaction are #1 in that department (and the basis for the vast majority of Republican politics) & FB only cares slightly—or not at all in the case of political ads—whether content is truthful), they really don’t care whether their users have a better or worse grasp on objective reality at the end of the day. And as their bottom line is their prime directive, and increased traffic = increased revenue & profit, they have no incentive whatsoever to create or enforce any infrastructure truth, accuracy, fairness, etc…

    Anyways, my 2 cents.

  48. 48.

    PPCLI

    I haven’t been able to pay much attention to the news this weekend. Did Marco Rubio express his disappointment that the G7 wouldn’t be held in Florida?

  49. 49.

    Matt McIrvin

    @West of the Rockies:

    the racists and homophobics, and misogynists will vote for Trump again. Those who are not those things will not.

    No, but will they vote for Trump’s viable opponent, or will they go third-party or stay home over some intra-opposition pissing match? That’s the key question that determines whether Trump can still get reelected with a majority of the country desiring his impeachment and conviction. The answer may be yes.

  50. 50.

    West of the Rockies

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Just reading the tea leaves, I believe Democrats are fired up and will turn out (unless we end up with BS–then I’m not so sure). I don’t see a Tulsi or Andrew third-party ticket chipping away significantly.

    Hell, then again, Stein voters were just abundant enough to muck up a state or two…

    Dammit, now I’m nervous!

  52. 52.

    cmorenc

    @smintheus:

    Meanwhile, Buttigieg is still concern trolling us about how expensive single payer would be. And the national media keeps letting him pretend that he was *not* always 100% for Medicare for All before he was always 100% against it.

    Buttigieg is very unlikely to be the D Presidential nominee anyways.

  53. 53.

    The Dangerman

    @TS (the original):

    And if trump has to resign – who would Pence appoint as VP?

    If Trump resigns, a new VP has to be approved by both Senate and House. Yeah, that’s gonna happen.

  55. 55.

    randy khan

    @The Dangerman:

    @TS (the original):

    And if trump has to resign – who would Pence appoint as VP?

    If Trump resigns, a new VP has to be approved by both Senate and House. Yeah, that’s gonna happen.

    Finally, a job for Joe Biden!

  56. 56.

    Another Scott

    LOLGOP on Eclectablog – Democrats shouldn’t help the press pretend they care about ‘paying’ for things:

    […]

    That the press is now joined in this effort by Democrats is somewhat inevitable, given Warren’s rise, but dismaying.

    A fixation on taxes has led to the rich bleeding of the middle class both of wealth and the government services that built our widespread prosperity and the modern Democratic Party. This happens through racial dog whistles turning people against their own government.

    Democrats feed this phenomenon when they adopt the sort of fear of taxes and government that allow us to become servants of a for-profit health care industry — a for-profit health care industry that has taken workers’ raises for decades and turned them into premiums that pay into a system designed to deliver minimum coverage.

    The real joke is that no one — especially not, Paul Ryan — cares about how ANYTHING is paid for in America.

    Donald Trump continues to prove this ridiculously comical ways. He’s violating the Constitution to force Americans to pay for a wall that most of us don’t want and he said Mexico would pay for. He’s told us Saudi Arabia is “paying” for our soldiers being stationed in his country, with no actual accounting of this or admission of who would pay for the war this escalation is designed to provoke. And his tax scam like all Republican tax cuts for the rich and their corporations that were supposed to “pay for themselves” are going right into the deficit so future Republicans can demand that anybody but the rich pay for them.

    What people actually care about is WHO pays for things. If the rich are paying, the right screams bloody murder and gets the media to go along with it, spreading the fear this will be burden to the middle class, instead of a transformation that will offer both security and the promise of a return to growing wages.

    […]

    Yup.

    Read the whole thing. He makes good points, as always, as a good polemicist should.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  57. 57.

    Matt McIrvin

    @West of the Rockies: Watch. There will somehow be some fairly popular reason that the Democratic nominee is ACTUALLY a monster worse than Trump. The exact reason will depend on which of the candidates gets nominated, but it will make it clear to millions (which particular millions depends on the nominee) that that particular candidate was the wrong one and a terrible mistake. And there will be so much tut-tutting about it on the New York Times editorial pages.

  58. 58.

    The Dangerman

    @randy khan:

    Finally, a job for Joe Biden!

    I’ve been trying to guess candidates and I can’t think of a single one that could pass both Houses. I have no idea what happens then if, say, Pence has to resign, too (assuming, and I think it is a safe one, that Republicans will NOT accept a Presient Pelosi without a monstrous fight)…

  59. 59.

    Kent

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    @Patricia Kayden: I was considering this; if Trump and Pence have to resign, Mittens is the only Republican with stature who isn’t implicated on this mess who could replace them.

    The Senate is utterly corrupt. Other than a few retreads like Kasich they’d probably have to turn to one of the GOP governors.

  62. 62.

    Kent

    @Cacti:

    @glory b:

    The big news would have been if AOC didn’t endorse him. Her endorsement wasn’t much IMO.

    I saw she called his heart attack a “gut check moment”.

    Which I guess is accurate, insofar as it means “is likely to die before 2024”.

    Why aren’t the press asking both Biden and Sanders if they are PLANNING to be one-term Presidents. 2024? We should be looking for a candidate who can serve until 2028. That is a fucking huge issue to me. Toss away every advantage of incumbency in 2024 because two selfish old white men can’t let go? Fuck them. Sanders would take office at age 79 and leave office at age 87 if he served two full terms. How many 87 year old men do any of you know who are vibrant enough to deal with a 24/7 job like the presidency? Biden would be 86 at the end of his second term.

  63. 63.

    Kent

    @The Dangerman:

    I’ve been trying to guess candidates and I can’t think of a single one that could pass both Houses. I have no idea what happens then if, say, Pence has to resign, too (assuming, and I think it is a safe one, that Republicans will NOT accept a Presient Pelosi without a monstrous fight)…

    There are none. They’d have to nominate some non-partisan placeholder type who was guaranteed not to run in 2020. Like say a Warren Buffet type person. Or some well-respected retired general.

  64. 64.

    The Dangerman

    @Kent:

    They’d have to nominate some non-partisan placeholder type…

    It would have to be someone that has never voted, has never registered, and never voiced an opinion on anything remotely controversial.

    I can’t think of anyone.

  66. 66.

    Jeffro

    @Kent: Truly, who cares? Let’s get trumpov out via impeachment if we can and at the ballot box if we must, and make the GOP own his/their disasters all the way. We can sort it out later.

  67. 67.

    Kent

    @The Dangerman: I expect the dems would go along with a relatively nonpartison placeholder type who was guaranteed not to run in 2020. “For the good of the country” and all that bullshit. I doubt they would sit still for anyone who was a potential candidate in 2020 or 2024. So no Rubio or Cruz or Kasich or anyone like that.

  68. 68.

    Jeffro

    @Kent: I know it was a rhetorical question, but they aren’t asking Biden ’cause he’s the consensus ‘safe choice’ for unseating trumpov, and they aren’t asking Sanders ’cause, well, he ain’t Hillary. I dunno. The lady faints for a moment from bronchitis or pneumonia or whatever back in 2016, and it’s all “DROP OUT DROP OUT QUIT HIDING YOUR HEALTH CONDITION DROP OUT!” The 78-year-old guy in 2019 has an actual heart attack, his campaign doesn’t admit it for three days, and when he gets back on the trail it’s all “Hey Bernie! Whereyabeen?”

    Fucking ridiculous.

    It would be more of an issue if the other Dem nominees would make it more of an issue, but right now they all have a mild version of “don’t alienate that other so-and-so’s base” just like the other GOP candidates had in spades w/ trumpov’s supporters in 2016.

    I mean, you could make a plausible case that several of the remaining Dem candidates are just hanging in there hoping that something medical and obvious happens to Biden, so that they can suddenly occupy the blessed ‘centrist/moderate’ lane all to themselves. Good luck with that.

  69. 69.

    Jeffro

    Here’s hoping that Warren people are talking to several of the 1-2% candidates’ people and expressing just how much they’d appreciate a drop-out and endorsement, and essentially guaranteeing the 1-2%ers’ that they’ll get a cabinet post, party platform plank, etc. Do it now before you have to do it at the convention.

  70. 70.

    Mike in NC

    OT: Anybody watching “Watchmen” on HBO? So far has nothing to do with either the graphic novel or the 2009 movie adaptation (which was OK).

  72. 72.

    Mary G

    @Jeffro: I can see Pence nominating Mittens, and if the Democrats don’t go along, Republicans will point to opposition of Twitler and his stellar reputation with the Know-Nothings, and we’re going to assassinate Pence, so Pelosi will be president, and the talking heads will pound on it 24/7. Then Mitts is their nominee and wins.

  75. 75.

    Steeplejack

    @Mike in NC:

    I haven’t watched Watchmen. (Should I?) My current oddball quotient was just now watching the first episode of Treadstone, a spinoff from the Jason Bourne movies. Someone is reactivating sleeping assets. Eek!

    Like a lot of first episodes, it’s trying to spin up five or six different plot threads, which is a heavy lift and kills the continuity. Don’t know if I’ll keep on with it. But the production values are good, and it’s got potential.

  76. 76.

    Ruckus

    @Steeplejack:
    If you get Netflix you could watch The Bucket List.
    Morgan Freeman, Jack Nicholson directed by Rob Reiner.
    I thought it was very good. Being old and having cancer, maybe it struck a cord with me, but even without that I thought it was a pretty damn good 1 1/2 hr.

  77. 77.

    J Green

    Driftglass & Blue Gal say when Democrats are asked about how they will pay for anything they propose, they should say “MEXICO WILL PAY FOR IT” and leave it at that. The reason should be obvious.

  79. 79.

    Sally

    @J Green: I strongly agree with that! And maybe the same department that is paying for “Wall“ should pay, at least in part, for healthcare and other Dem priorities. Though monies for service housing and schools shouldn’t be plundered. I’m sure there are some DoD programs ripe for efficacious trimming. Or maybe all the money we are making off Chinese tariffs could pay ….

  81. 81.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @J Green: It’s obvious, all right. Or it will be obvious to most of the neither-rich-nor-poor (NRNP) classes – as just the latest version of Lucy & The Football, starring them as Charlie Brown.

    1) Democrats propose programs to help the poor & working & middle classes;
    2) When asked how they’ll pay for them, the Democrats say they’ll make the rich pay;
    3) Once the programs are signed into law, the rich call in their favors to amend the funding mechanism to ensure that they not only won’t pay for the programs but will make even more money off them;
    4) Democrats raise taxes on the NRNP classes instead, shrugging their shoulders & whimpering that the money has to come from somewhere;
    5) NRNP voters turn the Democrats out in the next election.

    The NRNP have seen (or think they’ve seen) this “Democrat” variation on Lucy & the football over & over again.

    Any Democrat running for President on a platform of lots of new programs (side-eying you, Senator-Professor) should commit her/himself to not enacting those programs until & unless a funding mechanism is signed into law that actually soaks (or at least mildly moistens) the 0.1%. Otherwise the NRNP will dismiss them as just another instance where no matter what gets promised, in the end they’ll get stuck with the bill.

  82. 82.

    Scamp Dog

    @Uncle Cosmo: I’d like to see a constitutional balanced budget amendment that has some teeth: that as long as there are American troops involved in combat operations anywhere in the world, the top marginal tax rate goes to 90%, with that level applying to everyone in the top 10% of earnings. This probably wouldn’t actually balance the budget, but it would slow down our war-mongering.

    How this would get passed is beyond me, but I think it’s a great idea.

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