Last night when I was cooking and waiting for the baseball game to start, I got a news alert from CNN on my phone about some Giuliani fuckery. Since that’s always amusing and I had a few minutes while waiting for the cheese on my eggplant parm to reach the ideal golden brown state, I read the article, all the way to the end, where CNN buried the lede:
According to this, Giuliani and indicted goons Parnas and Fruman were flying to Vienna for an interview with the disgraced Ukrainian prosecutor and SEAN HANNITY. ?
How two businessmen hustled to profit from access to Giuliani and the Trump administrationhttps://t.co/BquzTMFWG2
— Betty Cracker ? (@bettycrackerfl) October 23, 2019
Josh Marshall noticed that buried lede too.
The [CNN] article is about the seemingly limitless sleaze of Rudy Giuliani’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, the guys picked up at Dulles airport two weeks ago and pled not guilty today in federal court in Manhattan. Whatever else they were doing for Trump and Giuliani, basically everywhere they went with Rudy they were trying to shake down, consult for, borrow money or rip off every high roller they came into contact with.
But down in literally the last paragraph is something I’d never heard before and I don’t think has been reported elsewhere. Parnas and Fruman (with Giuliani to arrive via a separate flight, apparently) were on their way to Vienna to handle logistics for a blockbuster interview Viktor Shokin (the notorious fired prosecutor) was going to do on Hannity!
As we learned from Bill Taylor’s testimony, Trump’s Ukraine shake-down unit was pressuring Zelensky to appear on CNN and announce that his government had opened investigations into Ukraine’s role in the hijacked 2016 US presidential election and debunked corruption allegations against the Bidens. They wanted Zelensky to lend credence to the crackpot conspiracy theory Trump, Giuliani and others have been peddling for months — a phony story that conveniently exculpates Trump/Putin/Russia and implicates the DNC/Soros/Ukraine. The extortionists also wanted Zelensky to falsely paint the Bidens as shady, corrupt characters before the 2020 election.
That was Plan A in Trump’s corrupt scheme, and from what we know so far, it looks like it failed because Congress started asking questions about the aid Trump was illegally withholding and because folks like Taylor made it clear they weren’t on board. But this CNN report suggests that the Trumpsters didn’t give up after Taylor and others foiled Plan A.
The Trumpsters persisted with Plan B, even as the Ukraine scandal was exploding around them after the whistleblower complaint. They lined up Hannity for a big reveal with the disgraced prosecutor in Vienna, where, not coincidentally, Russia-aligned Ukrainian oligarch Dmitry Firtash is currently stranded while he fights US extradition on bribery charges.
Think of it — the only thing that stopped this brazen crew from carrying out Plan B of their illegal media smear campaign to rig 2020 was the cops pinching Giuliani’s goons! And yesterday those goons pleaded not guilty in federal court to funneling foreign money to Trump PACs and individual Republicans, and their lawyers raised executive privilege claims since the goons were working for Giuliani, who was working for Trump. Analysis: amazeballs!
As Marcy Wheeler noted on Twitter, Hannity’s involvement in the aborted Vienna interview makes AG Barr’s visit to Rupert Murdoch after the Giuliani goons were picked up all the more fascinating:
To clarify, the timeline from 10/9 looks something like this:
Lunch: Rudy and Ukrainian grifters lunch across from DOJ
6:22: Grifters arrested as they prepare to flee to Vienna
That evening: Bill Barr meets with SDNY
Later that evening: Barr meets with Murdoch
What did Hannity know, and when did he know it? Hannity casts a loving spaniel gaze on Trump whenever they’re in the same frame, which suggests that the bloviating host is a true believer, as he almost certainly is. But like Trump, Hannity is all aboard the ethnocentric state train not only for the white supremacy but also for personal gain.
Recall that Hannity was Michael Cohen’s mystery client. Did we ever get all the details on services rendered? Hannity may be up to his non-existent neck in Eastern European oligarchs too; it would be irresponsible not to speculate!
So, what’s next? I don’t think Baby Jeebus loves us enough to implicate and discredit every seat of wingnut power that rolled over when Trump brought his lunatic circus to town. But on the other hand, people and organizations that form cults around demented narcissists don’t tend to prosper, at least not in the long run.
The NRA used to be the most powerful lobbying group in DC, and now it’s a husk of its former self, exposed as a foreign cut-out and riddled with self-inflicted bullet wounds. Could the attorney general, certain influential Fox News figures and the dumbest and meanest GOP back-benchers come to grief in similar fashion? Probably not, but here’s hoping…
Anonymous At Work
Raising executive privilege is a bad move. Judge will ask to review the proof that they were acting on behalf of the President “in camera” (meaning privately in his chambers). So either they have the proof, will depose Guiliani to get the proof, or will be caught in a lie of just working as bagmen for Guiliani, not as “executive” agents.
Kay
I’ve been amusing myself thinking about how this would have played out BUT FOR the whistleblower. They were all ramping up the bullshit machine. It would have been wall to wall “Joe Biden’s scandal!” with the NYTimes in the lead, once again.
They did it because it worked with the emails, so you can’t blame them for thinking it would work again.
We were one person away from a replay of 2016.
I’m not a Biden supporter in the primary but I have to admit I’m pleased D primary voters seem more resistant to it this time.
Betty Cracker
@Anonymous At Work: Fascinating. I also read somewhere (perhaps Wheeler’s Twitter feed?) that SDNY was monitoring up to a dozen phones before they arrested the goons, possibly including Giuliani’s giant phone.
Shalimar
@Anonymous At Work: The analysis won’t even reach that point. Even under the Trump administration’s expansive view of executive privilege, it strictly applies to members of the executive branch of our government. Giuliani is not a government employee. TweedleDee and TweedleDum are not government employees.
Maybe Giuliani has attorney-client privilege, though he doesn’t seem to have been acting in his capacity as a lawyer. Even that would only shield conversations with Trump, not with Ukrainian flunkies.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: It’s so tenuous, this reed that holds up our entire democracy. Scary as hell. I’ve been wondering why Taylor didn’t blow the whistle himself. My guess is he figured he stopped the corrupt act by pushing back on Plan A and getting the aid released, and since his bailiwick was protecting US interests in Ukraine and ensuring appropriate US-Ukrainian ties, he figured he’d done his job. I’m not blaming Taylor for not taking on the entire Trump administration’s epic, global corruption. He was doing HIS job. But thank dog for that whistleblower!
As you said the other day, this is just one CORNER of a very lumpy rug. I really hope the House Dems insist on seeing the other call transcripts the “grownups” squirreled away in the super-secret vault. Obviously Trump tried to shake down foreign governments around the world — it’s what he does. This Turkey business was awfully suspicious. China too! And Saudi Arabia. Investigate it all, I say.
geg6
@Anonymous At Work:
Yeah, I want to see how they show they qualify for executive privilege. Especially since the person with the privilege has to exert it. Which the Idiot in Chief has not yet done, despite all those White House visit selfies these goons post.
Leto
No, we didn’t. Maybe it’s part of the counterintelligence probe that’s still ongoing so can’t be discussed publicly. But if Congress were to depose Cohen again, I’m sure Mikey will be more than willing to talk in exchange for a few months being shaved off his sentence. Also there’s no reason not to specu-smear Hannity in the process. They’re all up to their pie holes in this.
Leto
@geg6: Don’t worry, he’ll live down to his stupidity and do it. Just as soon as Putin lets him know that’s what he needs to do.
kindness
All politics has grifters but Republicans always have had more so. Maybe because the base is a bunch of bumpkins and the marks (the fleeced rich) are always scared and willing to fork over to keep their place at the table.
However in the age of Trump the grifters have gotten even more bazen and stupid. Our MSM is not trying to save us from it. Our MSM is only trying to monetize it with clicks. Thank the FSM for the likes of Adam Schiff & Nancy Pelosi. I can’t wait to see what Nancy says about yesterday’s Ross Dress For Less Riots.
Roger Moore
@Anonymous At Work:
Executive privilege claims have been effective when dealing with Congress, because the Republicans in Congress have been willing to let them get away with them, and the Democrats haven’t been willing to fight really hard to litigate them. That’s obviously not going to work with a judge, who is professionally skeptical of that kind of claim and who has the power to demand answers. They may be able to stall for a while, but not for too long, and they’ll lose the trust of the judge in the process. Not a good idea.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I don’t know but I think the “good faith” people who stay are thinking they can protect better from inside than outside. I don’t really buy it but it seems they do.
I feel like we’ve lost sight of what “the institutions” are FOR- their purpose. They’re not just there for the sake of being there. I feel like there’s the crazy effort to protect the “reputation” of the thing for the thing itself. If “the institutions and norms” are wobbling then they’re wobbling! That’s the reality. Sort of propping them up and hiding things isn’t helping matters. It’s just piling on another lie. They’re NOT WORKING. Pretending they’re working is not helpful.
West of the Rockies
FSM, I would LOVE to see stout Sean go down in disgrace. In every photograph of him ever taken, he looks like a smug bird peeping for another fat worm to be regurgitated and stuffed down his gullet.
He’s a would-be tough guy with a spine (and ethics) of balsa.
Sourmash
Can we stop referring to Rudy’s boys as “goons” or “flunkies”? The appropriate word in this case is “HENCHMEN”. Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
Jeffro
OT but worth a read & retweet: since the college-age vote is surging, naturally Republicans are doing everything they can to suppress it
They’re just not really into this whole democracy thing, are they? (The Rs, I mean…not the college kids)
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
It’s especially frustrating because the leaders who at the table with Trump KNOW he’s insane and corrupt. They know this! They’re acting based upon this information they gathered. Of course they are. They’re not going along with the huge effort to pretend this is not happening. Why would they do that? It’s a fantasy.
The only people who aren’t being told what’s going on are the American public.
Humdog
@Shalimar: the administration got Corey lewandowski to claim executive privilege and he has never worked for the administration. They believe anyone Shitstain uses can claim that privilege.
Humdog
@Betty Cracker: To whom would Taylor submit his report of the illegal shenanigans? Unless he could get it to Democrats, why would he think a State Dept. inspector general would follow up? It seems to me Taylor has been busy making a paper trail for months but where could he take it and trust that it wouldn’t be buried?
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
To me it’s like this- “why does the State Department need a good reputation?” They need a good reputation because they broker agreements. But if all the parties know Trump’s a corrupt nutjob (and they do- they deal with him) then they no longer have a good reputation. They have what they have. They have less. Pretending they can somehow bootstrap off some prior reputation just isn’t operable. It won’t work.
patrick II
Hannity has been up to his eyeballs in whichever of Trump’s various criminal schemes of the day are happening. I have read that Hannity is one of the phone calls that Trump makes most evenings as part of conferring with his unofficial cabinet. That Hannity is a “journalist” protected him early on, and Bill Barr is protecting him now. But if there are ever criminal conspiracy charges for obstruction or the Ukraine blackmail ever brought, Hannity should go down too. But, he’s a “journalist” at FOX. Not only will FOX spend 24 hours a day blasting whoever might hold Hannity responible, the media, led by the NYFT, will decry the abuse of their fellow “journalist”.
joel hanes
@Leto:
there’s no reason not to specu-smear Hannity
Indeed, it would be irresponsible NOT to speculate.
Kay
@patrick II:
The pay scale is what kills me. What a fucked up industry. They pay the worst people tens of millions dollars a year and ordinary state level journalists make like 40k. It’s wildly inequitable and has no relationship at all to the actual work.
Patricia Kayden
Kay
I think Trump is sending his congressional lackeys out to intimidate the witnesses. That’s the point of these protests. To send a message that breaking ranks with the regime will carry consequences.
That’s how this behavior would be perceived in an ordinary legal proceeding. These people are special because they’re powerful? They’re trying to intimidate people into NOT coming forward. They’re thugs. They’re no better than common criminals except common criminals would be held accountable for intimidating witnesses. Our special snowflake elite criminals get away with it.
Elie
Great post and comments, Betty and jackals.
Alls I can think is thank dog that these folks are not smarter than they are. We are having a devil of a time with the morons… can you imagine if they actually were bright? Its actually terrifying…
glory b
@Shalimar: I’m upset when I see someone quoting Giuliani as saying he was doing things in his client’s best interest. The work done has to be legal. Eating healthy is in your client’s best interests too, but cooking for him/her isn’t privileged.
West of the Rockies
Is there another deposition scheduled today? Will our brave boys of the 101 IQ Division storm the meeting for a second day to shed light on this “unconstitushional” travesty (while enjoying some yummy pizza!)?
Elie
@Kay:
Yes they could be intimidating to witnesses but they are also relatively high profile and could be revealed pretty easily. How many of them want to get themselves personally deeper in this muck? My guess is that for most, this is the scope — showing up for pizzas and a little belly aching in a meeting room.
Immanentize
@Sourmash:
I agree about “HENCHMEN.” In fact, they were both photographed with Guilliani wearing this:
patrick II
I have been reserved about using psychological terms to describe Trump because I am not a psychiatrist, so I prefer to describe his actions. But I have put that aside and decided Trump is clinically insane when he asked Zelensky about Hillary’s server. He was on a phone call with just the two of them, and he was blackmailing a foreign president over a server that Trump actually thinks exists in the secret lair of a Ukrainian billionaire who was supposedly part of a larger plot by Ukraine that framed the Russians for helping Trump during the 2016 election. This despite Trump’s direct knowledge of Russian help, that people in his employ, like Manafort, were under Russian influence, that his son-in-law met with Russians, his sons, his attorny general and others, that Roger Stone had foreknowledge of Wikileaks email release schedule, on and on and on. But despite that he believes that a Ukrainian billionaire has Hillary’s server to hide it as part of the Ukrainian plot to blame the Russians. He actually and truly believes Hillary’s server is in Ukraine. And even if the plot were true, that Trump believes the server isn’t completely erased, that it isn’t at the bottom of an ocean, or smashed in one of those car smasher things that criminals on tv use to smash evidence. And why the server? Why wouldn’t just the hard drive be there? So, there is a reality of which Trump has direct knowledge of, but he firmly believes is not true because its in conflict with what he wants to be true. The fact that Trump was blackmailing the Ukrainian president was terrible, but the fact that a part of Trump’s blackmailing Zelensky was over a figment of Trump’s imagination that Zelensky could never produce is horrifying at another level. And the fact that Giuliani, Mulvaney, believe it too is fucking nuts.
Ladyraxterinok
Wasn’t there some connection Murdoch/Putin through at least 1 wife/mistress/girlfriend relationship in coomon?
And Ivanka friends with her, vacationed with her?
the Conster
The thing I keep coming back to is how any justice can be served with the DOJ firmly in the grip of Barr, the mob fixer. Barr has taken over the role of Michael Cohen. Who will be enforcing subpoenas and contempt charges? What US Attorneys will be able to defy their boss? Why isn’t Giuliani behind bars?
Jackie Speier this morning mentioned inherent contempt by using House authority to cut off payments to the subpoena defiers, but now we know there’s an endless stream of oligarch money that could be used to compensate those that defy Congress. Barr’s willingness to blatantly participate in Trump’s criminality is a huge fucking problem.
Immanentize
@Sourmash:
I agree about “HENCHMEN.” In fact, they were both photographed with Guilliani wearing this:
linky
germy
The big reveal:
“Nancy Pelosi is a drug addict.”
They won’t give up. No matter how much they get laughed at.
Betty Cracker
Hugh Hewitt’s column in The Post today makes me wonder if the ambulatory cream cheese sculpture sees cracks in the Senate. I’m not linking it and I don’t recommend it — it’s a recitation of absurd lies and ridiculous rationalizations that even a shameless hack like Hewitt should be embarrassed to put under his name. But basically he’s threatening elected Republicans, saying that if they break with Trump, their base will be gone forever. That may be true. But that’s the only way to salvage the party. They threw in their lot with a lying, demented conman, and the completely predictable consequences are starting to emerge.
patrick II
@Ladyraxterinok:
Yes, Wendy Denge Murdoch. Wenge, her original Chinese name, is replaced in english by Wendy. Wenge translates as “cultural revolution”.
Ladyraxterinok
@kindness:
WOW!! Ross Dress for Less Riots!!!
Aleta
Before this, Giuliani tried to get a US visa for Shokin, but it was turned down. So G asked the WH directly (not good form//). Still the visa was refused. (Then G and Shokin skyped.)
That story was reported by CNN .
(She testified that was false.)
He’s a busy guy.
germy
@patrick II: I remember when someone threw a pie at Murdoch, and Wendy went ballistic on his ass.
germy
kindness
@Ladyraxterinok: I can’t claim to have thunk it first. I saw it yesterday.
If the shoe fits…..
VOR
@Ladyraxterinok: I think you are thinking of Wendy Deng, Murdoch’s 3rd wife. She has been reported to be friendly with Jarvanka. Wikipedia claims Rupert thought she had an affair with Tony Blair. There were also media reports claiming she was social with Putin. And she was born in China, although living in the US, so there are also suspicions she has ties to Chinese Intelligence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendi_Deng_Murdoch
germy
Or if she yelled “You lie!” at Trump during a SOTU adress.
Aleta
@germy: “If i can just change one mind…”
germy
Quiet parts out loud, etc.
germy
@Aleta: I think Wohl goes before a judge today.
mardam422
If this “Executive Privilege” thing flies, pretty soon it will be like playing Six Degrees from Kevin Bacon. “I worked with Rick Scott who ran against Bill Nelson who worked with Andrew Gillum who ran against Ron DeSantis who had coffee with Marco Rubio who ran against Trump in the Republican primaries in 2016. Executive Privilege!!!!1
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@patrick II: Didn’t we learn that Hannity was Cohen’s third client in his bustling three-client law practice? We never heard what that was about, but I assumed it meant Hannity was an active player in Trumpian grift, not just a “journalist”.
glory b
@VOR: I seem to recall seeing a pic of Wendy and Ivanka on “vacation” together somewhere in Eastern Europe, several years ago.
Kay
I knew it. Pelosi knows it too- she’s mentioned it now 3 or 4 times- not “China/trade” but “China” and she means trade.
Ladyraxterinok
@VOR:
Elderly rich white males are confident they can ‘pal around with sexy young women’ and never fall victim to their’unsidious wiles’!!
Gremcat
The thing I don’t get about the thugs claiming executive privilege, wouldn’t Trump/Guiliani want to distance themselves from these stupid Russian goons. I know T has already said he “takes pictures” with lots of people and doesn’t know these guys, so why would executive privilege even be entertained as the president has to invoke the privilege, doesn’t he.
Kay
Immanentize
@Kay: In other words, “YES!”
If the answer had been no, there would have been no confidentiality issue.
These guys are dummies.
Nicole
@germy: It’s not too mysterious; the Trump Org realized they’re losing money. In 2017 one of the ritzy private schools here cancelled a holiday party at Wollman Rink because the parents didn’t want their kids to have to look at his name.
For me, who runs past Lasker every other day, I’m glad, because it means I can stop flipping the bird as I go by. I was a wee bit concerned the workers turning it from a pool to an ice rink would think I meant them, though I decided they likely knew what I was doing.
rikyrah
‘Our country has lost a giant.’ Elijah Cummings is first African-American lawmaker to lie in state at the U.S. Capitol as Congress bids farewell to sharecropper’s son who went head to head with Donald Trump
Elijah Cummings’ body is lying lie in state at the Capitol – the first time an African-American lawmaker has been given the honor
Congressional leaders including Speaker Nancy Pelosi spoke at a service in celebration of his life
Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer said: ‘Our country has lost a giant.’
Cummings was the son of sharecroppers. He earned a law degree and became a powerful committee leader and longtime Baltimore Congressman
He used his Oversight post to investigate the Trump administration
Trump attacked Cummings and his district, which he called ‘rat-infested,’ when he was alive
At a funeral in Baltimore Friday former presidents Barack Obama and Bill Clinton will speak
By GEOFF EARLE, DEPUTY U.S. POLITICAL EDITOR FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and WIRES
PUBLISHED: 00:33 EDT, 24 October 2019 | UPDATED: 11:59 EDT, 24 October 2019
Miss Bianca
@Kay: I’m a freelancer and I can tell you, I make way less than $40,000 per year. If I make a tenth that much off my writing, it’s a good year for me.
Kay
@Immanentize:
There is not a chance in hell they didn’t also pressure China. Guiliani had actually moved on to promoting a Biden/China conspiracy at the time the whistleblower became public. China was Part Two.
Betty Cracker
The phrasing — “in a stupor and without its pants” — made me laugh, but yeah, how fucking shameful:
Kay
@Miss Bianca:
I go by the Toledo Blade. I once asked their political reporter at an event. It’s rude to ask but it was in the context of them threatening a strike so I felt like it was allowed. He’s no longer a reporter- he’s the politics editor.
Their education reporter also revealed what she made in a Tweet during the work action. She actually makes less than 40. She makes about 15 dollars an hour, so closer to 30.
Sean Hannity has a private plane.
mousebumples
@West of the Rockies:
I had read somewhere yesterday (probably on Twitter) that there were no depositions scheduled for today or tomorrow due to Rep. Cummings lying in state. I believe there are scheduled depositions for Saturday (and next week).
schrodingers_cat
What did T promise Modi for the Houston rally? Because I see that Modi Bhakts are attacking Ilhan Omar on Twitter.
Miss Bianca
@Kay: I know, it sucks. I have to tell myself that I *chose* to live out here in the sticks and cover county commissioner meetings, but it’s still galling.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Also, Hannity is not a “journalist” in any meaningful sense. He doesn’t investigate stories. He doesn’t interview fact witnesses. He doesn’t analyze data to detect patterns. He doesn’t attend events and provide a factual summary. I doubt he even contributes much to the screeds he reads on his stupid show. He’s just a mean, rich asshole who stokes grievances in elderly white people. The most generous description of that activity is maybe “commentator.”
sublime33
And the timing of Paul Ryan moving his family from Wisconsin to Washington D.C. in late August looks more and more as if the party knew the crap was going to hit the fan. There was no other logical reason for the Ryans to move – he was never a big fan of living in DC and the NFL season was going to start in two weeks – he never misses a Packer game. He will be part of the replacement government and will run on the Republican ticket in one year.
trnc
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Hannity was the mystery client. Because I pick nits – Cohen had more than 3 clients, but those 3 were the only ones relevant to the Stormy Daniels payoff. See this story and the court filing:
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-represented-3-people-past-year-2018-4
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Just heard on MSNBC that Tim Ryan has dropped out of the Dem primary.
I honestly thought he did that two or three months ago
jc
Why is Lev (the handsome one) still in jail, while the other three have been bailed out? So many questions, inquiring minds want to know just how much sunlight is required to vaporize these monsters.
mrmoshpotato
@Leto:
Is there ever a reason not to specu-smear Hannity?
Dmbeaster
@Kay:
Remember that the FTFNYT was already on the beat, with Vogel of the NYT penning this story Biden Faces Conflict of Interest Questions… on May 1, 2019, which was just the NYT being a stenographer for Giuliani, as the article is based on Vogel talking to Giuliani.
Vogel then tweeted on the same day NEW: The BIDENS are entangled in a Ukrainian corruption scandal. This was before the whistleblower blew the lid on this, but it was already known that the military aid was being withheld by Trump, and Giuliani was making trips to Ukraine for unexplained reasons. I remember Marshall at TPM speculating that something weird was going on in this same time frame.
Instead, the FTFNYT saw this as a chance to promote the Giuliani lie and hurt Biden based on crap.
The funniest thing about this is those that pointed out that Vogel and the FTFNYT have been on this story early, and missed the Pulitzer by sniffing out the extortion scheme and instead ran with the lie about Biden. It shows the hackery in stark relief.
Bobby Thomson
How do all the Colorado juicers feel about the new wall?
Dmbeaster
@Betty Cracker: I would bet good money that Taylor was a source for the whistleblower. Expect the Trumpies to see this too, and use it to smear Taylor once they can prove it (if they can prove it). Heck, Taylor may have worked with the whistleblower to get this out there without Taylor being the messenger.
They should not call the whistleblower as a witness in this case. The whistleblower is now irrelevant, and just complicates the “process” narrative.
charon
@patrick II:
The investigation didn’t need to find anything, just a public announcement of an investigation would be basis for endless GOP propaganda.
Michael Cohen says Trump would describe an account of events to him they both knew to be untrue, this was Trump’s way of setting up a phony story he wanted told.
Now that Trump’s dementia is progressing, he relies heavily on habitual ways of doing stuff.
Betty Cracker
@Dmbeaster: You could be right about Taylor. IIRC, the whistleblower complaint mentioned multiple sources.
Regarding The Times and Vogel, you could tell the latter was embarrassed and enraged when the real story broke! I enjoyed watching him squirm on Twitter as he tried to pretend he was on the Giuliani beat all along and people kept throwing that clip of him on MSNBC teasing the upcoming “big story about Biden corruption” in his face. What a wanker.
Dmbeaster
Something I have not seen anyone discuss is who actually paid Giuliani $500,000, which was allegedly from Lev and Igor as his purported clients. I would speculate that it is a certainty that someone else paid that fee, such as Firtash. Lev and Igor are goons and con men, with ties to Russian mobsters. They did not pay that fee.
Also not revealed yet is the apparent source for the money they gave to GOP campaigns for which they have been indicted. Those may also be the people who paid Giuliani. And also not revealed is who did the nuts and bolts legal work for the mechanisms to funnel this money. Lev and Igor did not do it, and would not know how to set up the devices to conceal the source of funds. Was Giuliani being paid for that?
Dmbeaster
@Betty Cracker: Heck, Vogel is indistinguishable from the FTFNYT. You know that his editors were aware of what he was trying to promote, and were waiting breathlessly to run that killer Biden corruption story once Vogel had more juicy (and false) details.
Miss Bianca
@Bobby Thomson: Still scratching our heads about it. May have to move to (New) Mexico after all before he starts building it!
rikyrah
@Kay:
Told you we need those transcripts of the calls.
rikyrah
Despite Trump’s disruption efforts, impeachment inquiry persists
Rachel Maddow reports on the ridiculous lengths to which Donald Trump and his supporters went today to disrupt impeachment inquiry proceedings ahead of testimony from Laura Cooper, the top Pentagon official overseeing U.S. policy regarding Ukraine, including violating national security protocols by crashing the congressional SCIF.
Ruckus
@Kay:
They pay the worst people the most, because they are evil. Their owners want what they are buying.
rikyrah
Trump lawyers argue his crimes can’t be investigated, prosecuted
Rachel Maddow looks at arguments made in federal court in which Donald Trump’s lawyers claimed that as long as Trump is in office, no one may investigate him, or prosecute him, or even stop in the process committing any crime, including murder on 5th Avenue.
sukabi
@Shalimar: I’m hoping one of the dozen phones was one or all of drumpfs unsecured phones and Ivanka’s and Jared’s phones as well.
Dmbeaster
@Kay: I
I am a business trial lawyer in Los Angeles, and I have seen the sheriff arrest people who were taking pictures of witnesses waiting in the hallway to testify.
sukabi
@Dmbeaster: didn’t need the whistleblower as a witness as soon as drumpf released the “transcript” of the call. He confirmed the details and opened up further lines of questioning all by himself.
Barbara
@Dmbeaster: The reaction of people to the significance of the whistleblower just perfectly encapsulates the organized gang mentality of Trump and his minions. Let’s say you are a member of a gang and you realize that your gang is going to do something even you are horrified by, so you become an informant, which triggers a search warrant, which unearths a garage full of illegal tactical explosives. No one who isn’t connected with the gang cares who called the police and since the evidence of illegal activities is in plain sight, that person never even has to be a witness. But you bet the gang wants to know so they can kill him and make and example in case anyone else tries to pull the same thing going forward. Obsessive focus on who blew the whistle is prima facie evidence of the organized nature of the crime cartel that currently rules our executive office.
Dmbeaster
@sukabi: Agree, but I know that Schiff has been thinking about a mechanism for the whistleblower to testify. They should not bother.
Dmbeaster
@Barbara: And that was already starkly on display when Michael Cohen flipped, and Trump called him a rat. Straight up mob talk.
rikyrah
Despite twists, Trump saga actually just one, big scandal
Rachel Maddow rewinds the Trump presidency from its beginnings with Trump as a candidate with an odd deference for Russia, through the Mueller investigation and into the impeachment inquiry and its adjacent criminal cases and investigations, and points out that it’s all the same scandal.
rikyrah
House Republican SCIF stunt warrants admonition: Rep. Speier
Rachel Maddow talks with Rep. Jackie Speier, member of the House Oversight Committee, about how the testimony of Pentagon official Laura Cooper contributed to the Trump impeachment inquiry, and how the disruptive stunt by House Republicans should be addressed.
rikyrah
I keep on telling you….Dolt45 ain’t Nixon….He’s not a Team Player…he doesn’t give two shyts about the Republican Party. If he’s going down…
HE’S TAKING EEEEERRRRRBBOOODDYYYY WITH HIM.
Rachel is the only one who keeps pointing this out about Pence and the bus…
Trump lawyers keep musing about a Mike Pence indictment
Rachel Maddow wonders at Donald Trump’s lawyers repeatedly, and without prompting, arguing that vice presidents are non-essential and totally subject to criminal investigation and prosecution without protection from their status. Mike Pence might also wonder why they keep doing that.
patrick II
@charon:
The difference is this iteration of Trump ratfucking lies is that Trump asked Zelensky to produce the server — a physical object that does not exist in Ukraine. Other parts of the scam, though fictional, might well be just a construct for extortion and ratfucking and probably would have worked (thanks whistle blower (not meant ironically)), especially with the support of corrupt Ukrainians giving bogus testimonials. But the server part is just nuts, and hurts, not helps their storyline. Because the server is not a physical object that exists in Ukraine, it can’t be produced, it can’t add to the story, and holding up aid until a physical object that doesn’t exist, but you think it does, hurts your story not helps, and is just nuts.
Aleta
@Miss Bianca:
That would be so tempting.
From what I know of Coloradans you all would quickly make use of it for extreme sports, avant theater, tunneling …
Fair Economist
@sublime33:
I’m sure somebody else has pointed this out, but it makes his claim to have retired in 2018 to “spend time with his family” even more ridiculous when less than a year after retirement, they’re all moving to where he used to work.
West of the Rockies
@jc:
Would we call Lev the handsome one?
I guess it’s shades of gruesome…
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
Trump and Pence are hurrying away from zombies. Trump thinks, “Hey, if I trip white Mikey, maybe they’ll feast on him and leave me alone!”
Miss Bianca
@Aleta: Ha, ha, true! We’d be doing skijoring jumps off it!
Ella in New Mexico
If anyone here needs a good old fashioned roll on the floor can’t catch your breath wheeze for five hours laugh I strongly suggest this incredible piece of complete lack of insight and borderline parody entitled “The Post-Trump GOP: The optimistic case for a Trumpism-free conservatism and Republican party”
And so much more
BigJimSlade
Ms. Cracker’s on fire today!
Ella in New Mexico
@patrick II:
I keep thinking: What if Hannity is actually using his position at Fox as a means to co-conspire with these morons to float false news stories re:Biden/Ukraine/2016 Russia investigations? What if he is actually participating in the logistics of the crime?
Could he be legally liable in anyway?
Ella in New Mexico
@Miss Bianca:
Personally, I think our two states could just merge into one “great big beautiful” progressive powerhouse. ;-)
patrick II
@Ella in New Mexico:
He was and is. On his show, he told witnesses not to cooperate with government prosecutors during the Mueller investigation. If he wasn’t doing that on TV as a “journalist”, it would be clear obstruction of justice. Plus, he works out plans and strategy with Trump constantly. He was conspiring to be part of the Ukraine illegal extortion plan by interviewing a Ukranian oligarch on his show. And by Ukranian oligarch I mean Russian asset.
If legality was the only standard and Hannity wasn’t protected by his “journalist” chimera, he would have been indicted awhile ago. He won’t be as long as Barr is AG, and it would be difficult under a democratic administration.
charon
@patrick II:
The deliverable was not results from the investigation. (Would have been nice, but relatively unimportant). Trump kept emphasizing repeatedly the need for a public announcement of the investigation. That was the important deliverable, the public announcement that would support campaign advertising. Like with Uranium One or the other pseudo scandals.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
I first read that as comrade.
If the glass slipper fits………
Dev Null
@patrick II:
Trump was talking about the DNC server, not HRC’s private email server. [1]
As emptywheel & cie (mostly Rayne, I think) never tire of pointing out (in the most condescending way possible), the DNC used a cloud service (I don’t have a reference for this, but I assume that Rayne knows whereof she speaks, at least in this regard), so talk about “server” and “hard disc” is, uh, dis-illuminating.
They follow that first point with the second point that multiple servers were hacked, so reference to “the DNC server”, particularly in connection with “HRC emails”, is apples and oranges.
That being said, you could (and the FBI no doubt did) image the DNC “server”.
In any case the distinction (between “cloud service” and “server”) completely blows up the “theory” (scare quotes intentional) that the DNC server was absconded with … I mean, seriously, you’re going to take the cloud with you and hide it in the Ukraine? WTF do you have to be drinking to believe that crap?
Yeah, sure, you could take an image of the DNC account (the FBI did!) and hide it in Ukraine, but so what? The image would be a copy, so any files (particularly “HRC emails”) wouldn’t have been hidden from the FBI.
The whole thing is stark raving nuts, but as the Vice article says, this shows that “[Trump] understands nothing about how digital forensics works.”
Nonetheless, I agree with your conclusion that Trump is barking mad. :-)
[1] There’s no evidence (AFAIK) that HRC’s private server was hacked, and – as best I can tell – some circumstantial evidence (“the dog that didn’t bark in the night”) that it wasn’t hacked. But that’s reality-based, so it’s no surprise that cyber security experts Giuliani and Trump don’t buy it.
patrick II
@charon:
That take doesn’t really help your argument. If the imaginary server was not integral to Trump’s plan, but he was still asking for it, that’s even nuttier.
Dev Null
@patrick II:
Or that he doesn’t know how digital forensics works.
¿Por que no los dos?
JAFD
I am an old man, and my ‘senior moments’ come more often. Still, I was considered a pretty sharp guy in my day, and indeed made a living telling folks about computers, for a couple of decades.
But I ain’t going to say that I understand ‘the cloud’ (I’m retired, don’t really need to), and would bet that Mssrs Trump and Guiliani still think “it’s all backed up on a pile of floppies somewhere…”
Dev Null
@JAFD:
I aint a-gonna say that I understand “the cloud” any better than you, but to first approximation it’s a distributed computation and storage infrastructure, no?
8 inch floppies!
But I think you misunderestimate Giuliani’s computer chops. After all, he’s Trump’s cyber security advisor. You can’t argue with a qualification like that.
patrick II
@Dev Null:
The DNC “server” was digitally copied to the cloud by Crowdstrike. In the phone call Trump only asks for the “server” without a descriptive adjective, and Trump often talks about the 30,000 missing Hillary emails, so I mistakenly thought he was looking for Hillary’s server. But it makes little difference which “server” he wants. That either one might be in the physical possession of a rich Ukrainian as part of a larger plot by the Ukrainians to discredit Russia is ludicrous.
And yes, both things are true. He doesn’t understand computer forensics and he is distanced enough from the sometimes unpleasant facts of reality
Dev Null
@patrick II:
In an earlier comment I said “I don’t have a reference” because the point Rayne makes seems so likely to me that I didn’t think finding a reference was worth the trouble…
… but perhaps I was wrong about the value of a reference, so here’s a reference: “The Missing DNC Server is neither missing nor a server”.
From the article:
and
Truth in adverting: as the quote makes clear, my statement about “imaging the DNC account” was imprecise. Forensics isn’t one of my areas of expertise (and, like JAFD, I’m retired), but I believe that a more precise statement is “imaging all of the bits on all of the hardware that hosted the DNC account.”
Also “copying” is imprecise (the connotations of “copy” are broad). “Imaging” is the usual term.
We are in violent agreement about “ludicrous”, but your phrase “either one” is misleading, even if you intend “e pluribus (servers) unum (server).” (Your first sentence leaves your meaning unclear.) As Rayne says (again, in her exceedingly condescending way) talking about the DNC “server” plays into the hands of conspiracy theorists.
patrick II
@Dev Null:
I know what you are saying, I am too ineloquent, too lazy, or think it is not necessary for most here to read as much detail as you are submitting. My point was, whatever its physical manifestation, expecting some rich Ukranian to have it in his basement is nuts. And while charon earlier speculated it’s just part of the lie Trump was going to tell about Biden, I think, for reasons I have stated it, he believed the “server” was in Ukraine.
I worked in IT too, for about thirty years. Started out with punch cards. I am also retired and not entirely up to date. Anyhow, have a good night, Dev Null. It’s been nice talking to you.
Dev Null
@patrick II: Roger that, Patrick.
I suspect that you’re right that Trump believes. Lordy, does he believe!
If you will forgive me for beating the dead horse one more time [thrashes dead equine mercilessly]: hiding a quad-CPU IBM server in some Ukrainian oligarch’s basement isn’t a priori impossible; but hiding a cloud infrastructure in that same oligarch’s basement is barking-at-the-moon bonkers. The latter claim won’t fly: it’s too heavy, even if it had wings, which it doesn’t.
I’m saying that when you say “DNC server” you’re implicitly conceding an incredibly strong point: the physical impossibility (or at least extreme implausibility) of the claim. The “physical manifestation” (to use your words) is your friend here.
My first I/O devices were, hmm, I honestly don’t remember. Probably punch cards for a Burroughs 5500. Later, DECtape and punch cards, the latter for a CDC6600 … even so, dinosaurs still roamed the earth, men were men, and the sheep ran skeered. (BAAAAH!)
Good talking to you too … /dev/null
JAFD
Good morning, fellow steam-powered Hacker Jackals, and everyone else !
Additional thought – after I turned lights out, before I went ‘into crash mode’…
Both T rump and Guiliani are old enuf, and had gotten powerful enuf, that by the time desktop computers got into the office, PCs were something that secretaries or ‘flunkies’ dealt with. They never did their own typing. So their memory is cluttered with phrases remembered from budget requests and ‘ekcuses’ of three decades, with no framework of ‘how it fits together’…
Dev Null
@JAFD:
[ROFL] And a very good morning to you, JAFD!
in re “steam-powered Hacker Jackals” … lovely! Would “steam-punk-powered Hacker Jackals” work? Or does “steam-punk-powered” raise your (ahem, wait for it) … jackal hackles?
I’m not awake enough to be sure either phrase parses, but “jackal hackles” strikes me as “the cat’s PJs”.
Good point, and almost certainly true.
Keep gummint hands off my cloud infrastructure! /snark
Dev Null
@Dev Null: obligatory reference for the younger generations.
Dev Null
@Dev Null: another obligatory reference. Sadly, the Great Goog doesn’t provide an image of the cover of the Spectrum issue in which the linked article is found, but IIRC this walking boat is the illustration appearing on the cover.
“Steam-powered Hacker Jackals” tickles my sense of the absurd.