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You are here: Home / Politics / America / Black PSYOP, l’Affaire Ukraine, AG Barr’s Investigation, and the Impeachment Inquiry of the President

Black PSYOP, l’Affaire Ukraine, AG Barr’s Investigation, and the Impeachment Inquiry of the President

by Adam L Silverman|  October 25, 20191:30 pm| 130 Comments

This post is in: America, Domestic Politics, Election 2016, Election 2020, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Politics, Russia, Silverman on Security

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The short definition of Psychological Operations, popularly known as PSYOP, is the weaponization of information for effect. The effect being to influence the targeted population, whether a group, an organization, a society, an element within a society, or a government, to either undertake an action or to prevent an action from being taken. Black PSYOP refers to the attempts to launder the influence operation through a legitimate third party that is not connected to those conducting the influence operation. Former FBI Special Agent and Counterintelligence Officer Asha Rangappa provided an excellent run down with one of the classic historical examples in a tweet thread on Tuesday.

It’s called legitimizing propaganda. You place the information you want people to believe in what appears to be an independent source unconnected to you. Then you can cite it as further “evidence” of your own claims, making them appear more credible. 1/

— Asha Rangappa (@AshaRangappa_) October 23, 2019

Yesterday, Julian Sanchez’s tweeted an analysis of the leaks indicating that the DOJ (read AG Barr) had opened a criminal investigation into how the counterintelligence investigation into the President’s campaigns contacts and connections with both formal and informal Russian state actors, as well as Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was started and undertaken. I think his assessment is plausible. You can find that thread here:

On a second read, this absolutely reeks of a strategic leak. Two sources say Durham’s review has spawned a criminal inquiry, but not when it happened or what the crime is. That’s awfully suggestive. https://t.co/ljN2DVXo8n

— Julian Sanchez (@normative) October 25, 2019

With one exception. Specifically that Sanchez doesn’t tie what he’s describing in to the larger influence operation. That larger operation, which is a domestically focused Black PSYOP, has three lines of effort, each with multiple parts, and they all are now interconnected.

1) The Ukrainian deliverable.
A) The real deliverable wasn’t manufactured dirt on the Bidens. Rather, it was getting Zelensky to go on CNN to announce the opening of an investigation into the Bidens, because CNN is a mainstream news outlet and is in opposition to the President in its reporting. As soon as that happened, the President’s team would have campaign ads running 24/7 with this. They’d be pushing the reporters they often use, or who are primed for this type of cheap high like Ken Vogel, at mainstream outlets to get all over Zelensky’s announcement, thereby further laundering it and disseminating it through mainstream and legitimate outlets.
B) The fallback, when Zelensky wouldn’t play ball, was to have Hannity interview Shokin – the disgraced, corrupt prosecutor who was forced out under pressure from the US, EU, the IMF, and others. From the reporting over the past two or three days, Parnas and Fruman and Giuliani were all going to Vienna to arrange for this to happen the next night, which would be the night after Parnas and Fruman were arrested. It was also the night after Barr both returned to the US from his “fact finding trip”, met with the SDNY, and then had dinner with Rupert Murdoch.
C) The Romania and China gambits are also fallbacks. The President’s senior advisor for trade issues, Peter Navarro refused to answer CNN’s Jim Sciutto’s questions yesterday about whether the PRC had been told that in order to get a trade deal they had to manufacture dirt on Hunter Biden. I think it is reasonable to conclude that his refusal to answer should be taken as a yes. NBC/MSNBC had new reporting on Hunter Biden and Romania earlier this evening.
D) Barr’s criminal investigation is another fallback here. In this case it turns the DOJ into the propaganda laundry.

2) The Firtash initiative. Firtash wants off house arrest in Vienna and out from under the extradition order to send him to the US to face the Federal crimes he’s been indicted for. The reason Firtash wants this done is because he’s Putin’s man in Ukraine’s natural gas industry. If Firtash can get back to Kyiv he can then once again try to take over Ukraine’s natural gas sector, suck it dry of profits, and fuck up its operations, which will force the Ukrainians to buy natural gas from Russia while removing Ukrainian natural gas as an alternative to Russian natural gas for the rest of the EU market. This all benefits Putin, who is Firtash’s krysha (roof/ceiling) in the Russian mob. Just as he is for every other one of these oligarchs aligned with him.
A) Firtash’s efforts weren’t going very far, so he fired his US attorneys and hired Toensing and DiGenova. They then hired Parnas to do their translation work despite it being reported that Firtash and most of his staff speaking fluent and/or functional English.
B) Firtash was laundering manufactured dirt and conspiracy theories about the Bidens, about the Democrats working with Ukraine to steal the 2016 election, etc through Parnas and Fruman and Toensing and DiGenova to Giuliani. Giuliana who was being paid/worked for Parnas, but also somehow also Parnas’s boss.
C) Toensing and DiGenova are also working for free to assist Giuliani with manufacturing dirt on the Bidens.

3) The lift Russian sanctions initiative. Here’s where it all ties together, by laundering these conspiracy theories, especially that the Democrats and the Ukrainians, in conjunction with DNI, CIA, FBI, NSA, and DOJ, conspired to steal the 2016 election by running a false flag (maskirovka) operation to make it look like Russia was actually conspiring with Trump, his campaign, Republicans, and major conservative movement organizations to steal the 2016 election, it provides a fig leaf for Trump to order the lifting of US sanctions against Russia that went on after the seizure of Crimea and the invasion of Donbass and were expanded as a result of Russian interference in the 2016 election.
A) Manafort, through his attorney, was feeding Giuliani this conspiracy theory from jail and then prison.
B) This provides cover to pardon Manafort and Flynn and several others.
C) It was reported today that DiGenova and Toensing are the attorneys representing the conspiracist masquerading as an investigative journalist John Solomon who was (finally) just fired from The Hill. And here is where #3 wraps back into #1. Solomon was laundering all of these conspiracy theories, from Uranium 1 to the Democrats conspired with the Ukrainians, the DNI, the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, and the DOJ to frame the Russians for trying to steal the 2016 election in order to steal the 2016 election for the Democrats to the Biden bullshit.

A couple of final points. Both Giuliani and Toensing and DiGenova are now claiming that Parnas, Fruman, and now, I suppose, Solomon cannot be deposed, questioned, etc by investigators since they were either working for Giuliani and/or Toensing and DiGenova or are represented by them and therefore everything they know is either attorney-client privilege or attorney work product. So you can’t ask Giuliani about what Toensing or DiGenova are doing. Or what Parnas or Fruman are doing. You can’t ask Toensing and DiGenova about what Giuliani, Parnas, and/or Fruman are doing. You can’t ask Parnas and Fruman what Giuliani or Toensing or DiGenova are doing. You can’t ask Toensing and DiGenova what Solomon is doing. You can’t ask Soloman what DiGenova and Toensing are doing. You can’t ask Firtash what Giuliani, Toensing, DiGenova, and/or Parnas and Fruman are doing. You can’t ask Giuliani, Toensing, DiGenova, and/or Firtash is doing. And because Giuliani claims all of this is on behalf of his client, the President, you also can’t, because of executive privilege, ask Giuliani, Parnas and Fruman who are working for him and who he is working for, and/or Toensing and DiGenova who are assisting him pro bono and employing Parnas anything because they are all covered from having to divulge anything or answering any questions under executive privilege.

If this sounds familiar, it is similar to how Roy Cohn handled his legal representation of the organized crime families he represented in New York. They’d hold all their business/decision making meetings in his dining room with him present or with him on the phone in case of an emergency, so it was all covered under attorney-client privilege. Nobody, from any angle of inquiry, can say nothing about nothing and no one because everything is privileged.

Finally, I guarantee that there is an equivalent of the Black PSYOP delineated in #1 queued up for Warren, Sanders, Harris, and Buttigieg as the front runners. And if a new front runner emerges from the primary field, one will be cooked up for them too.

Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

130Comments

  1. 1.

    David Fud

    October 25, 2019 at 1:36 pm

    Thanks Adam. It is no wonder these guys can’t run the country, because they are too busy creating chaos and breaking the law to actually bother. Sigh.

  2. 2.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    October 25, 2019 at 1:39 pm

    I think “Black Comedy PyOps” is the word here considering how it’s blown up in their face.

    I am also being to suspect there is some serious prescription anti-depressant use with all these people considering their inability to utter see downsides in their cunning plans. This is like the Black Adder done for real. (hmm come to think of it Ruby would do a good Baldrick)

    But well laid out Adam, interesting.

  3. 3.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 1:44 pm

    President Obama: “Honorable” is a “title that we confer on all types of people who get elected to public office…But Elijah Cummings was honorable before he was elected to office.”

    (He never mentioned Trump but everyone knew who he was talking about.)#ElijahCummingsfuneral pic.twitter.com/UTtyel3BFi

    — Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) October 25, 2019

  4. 4.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 25, 2019 at 1:44 pm

    Firtash’s efforts weren’t going very far, so he fired his US attorneys

    Firtash’s previous US legal team was led by alleged Democrat and well-known scumbag Lanny Davis, incidentally.

  5. 5.

    Soprano2

    October 25, 2019 at 1:45 pm

    Adam, I want to let you know how much I value your posts about this. They help me clearly understand what is going on with all this stuff, and how it’s connected. Now if only we could get some reporters from the various news agencies to read this top 10,000 blog……

  6. 6.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 25, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    @Soprano2: you’re quite welcome!

  7. 7.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    October 25, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    I had to concentrate hard just reading this, Adam. I can’t imagine sorting it all out to write it.

  8. 8.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 25, 2019 at 1:51 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I’ve run out of colored yarn, thumbtacks, and wall space!

  9. 9.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 1:52 pm

    Adam, this all is plausible. My concern is that it is very American-centered. That’s appropriate for Americans, and perhaps all Congress and the voting public need to know. It’s hard to keep everything in one’s head.

    But there’s a Ukrainian perspective here too. I did a thread about that on Tuesday.

    The plan was to make Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announce in an interview on CNN that his government was investigating the gas company Burisma. 1/

    — Cheryl Rofer (@CherylRofer) October 23, 2019

    To the extent that my surmise is right that putting Zelensky in a box so that he can be manipulated in multiple ways and making corruption in Ukraine great again were objectives, it’s a direct benefit to Putin.

  10. 10.

    Adam L Silverman

    October 25, 2019 at 1:56 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: No arguments that’s the outside of the US, not domestic side of the op.

  11. 11.

    catclub

    October 25, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    My concern is that it is very American-centered.

    Is this an open thread? WTF is up with France opposing a three month delay to Brexit? Boris getting what he claims he watnted might be the worst possible news for him.

  12. 12.

    hueyplong

    October 25, 2019 at 2:03 pm

    The Cheryl-Adam exchange is consistent with Pelosi’s “all roads lead to Putin.”

  13. 13.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 25, 2019 at 2:03 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Fortunately there is much more anti-corruption momentum in Ukraine now, with the Verkhovna Rada being approximately 80% new faces. A few years back, Timothy Snyder said that momentum in Ukrainian politics will finally come from the people who don’t have a hammer and sickle on their birth certificate, and there are many of them in this current parliament. The government (meaning the ministers) is the youngest in Europe by a pretty significant margin. These are people who have traveled to western Europe and beyond, know what the world is like, and want to be a part of it. One MP I know well has served an internship in Ottawa and in DC, and has spent considerable time in Germany. So while Trump and Giuliani could conceivable put one or two people in a box, it’s hard to put 450 people in a box.

    I don’t want to be excessively optimstic here, and if you know Slavs, you know fatalism is endemic, but with each round of changes in Ukraine it seems the ball is moved forward at least somewhat.

  14. 14.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 2:03 pm

    Mike Pompeo, either quit and run for U.S. Senate in Kansas or focus on your day job
    BY THE KANSAS CITY STAR EDITORIAL BOARD

    If Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is running to replace retiring U.S. Sen. Pat Roberts, Republican of Kansas, then he should quit his rather important day job and do that.

    Or if, as he told The Star and The Wichita Eagle in a testy, credulity-straining interview on Thursday, he isn’t even thinking about it, then he should by all means focus on U.S. diplomacy — remember diplomacy? — and stop hanging out here every chance he gets.

    If it’s the first, Mr. Secretary, then you are also going to have to drop the put-upon posture and answer the many valid questions that a Senate run would require with less attitude and more truthfulness.

    …………………….

    With the Kurds betrayed, ethnic cleansing made possible, Russia rewarded along with Iran and even ISIS, foreign service agents beside themselves, and a shadow foreign policy team on Ukraine apparently headed by Rudy Giuliani, well no wonder you’d rather be in Wichita with Ivanka Trump, cheering on “the great work this administration is doing to ensure that our workforce is prepared to compete all around the world.”

    But again, if you’re not running, you have better things to do.

  15. 15.

    catclub

    October 25, 2019 at 2:05 pm

    @David Fud:

    because they are too busy creating chaos and breaking the law to actually bother. Sigh.
    Reply

    I wish. All those true believers/lobbyists he has put in as Cabinet secretaries are quietly going about wrecking things. It would be nice to pay attention to that, too. EPA, Interior, HHS (killing Obamacare?), VA

  16. 16.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 2:06 pm

    Silverman,

    I don’t always reply, but, I have been keeping up with yours and Cheryl’s posts on these kinds of subjects. I really appreciate your perspectives on what’s going on and you are like the guide to my own personal white board on the topic.

  17. 17.

    BR

    October 25, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    Adam, what do we do about this? If they’re going to cook up bogus investigations on any nominee, and the media will run with it because of course they will, what can be done?

  18. 18.

    Aleta

    October 25, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    Cheryl Rofer @CherylRofer
    Oct 22
    But part of what the Trump administration was doing with Ukraine was pressing to put their people on the Naftogas board.

    (Ironic, in view of their attack on Biden.) 9/

    Cheryl Rofer @CherylRofer
    Oct 22
    Naftogas is a Ukrainian natural gas company. In the Soviet Union, Ukraine was a distribution point for natural gas. Ukraine has been untangling itself from that. Russia likes to use energy as a lever with other countries. 10/

    Cheryl Rofer @CherylRofer
    Oct 22
    The important part of that “in a box” comment is that Trump would be able to push Zelensky around on multiple fronts. It’s a lot more than his campaign needs. 11/11

  19. 19.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Exactly. If you look at the rest of the Twitter thread I posted, you will see that I mentioned that Zelensky is moving against corruption and Ukraine is greatly improving. So compromising him by making him go back to a corrupt prosecutor and a corrupt investigation would make him vulnerable to further corruption.

    And I agree, it’s not all Zelensky. The progress has been steady since Kuchma, but very slow. It is now speeding up.

  20. 20.

    catclub

    October 25, 2019 at 2:09 pm

    If Firtash can get back to Kyiv he can then once again try to take over Ukraine’s natural gas sector, suck it dry of profits, and fuck up its operations, which will force the Ukrainians to buy natural gas from Russia while removing Ukrainian natural gas as an alternative to Russian natural gas for the rest of the EU market. This all benefits Putin,

    This seems like one heck of an important guy! The great man theory rides again. Why cannot the company that he (presumably) owns or controls do the same things without him? They would still get Putin’s blessing/backing.

  21. 21.

    Miss Bianca

    October 25, 2019 at 2:09 pm

    @rikyrah: Damn, what’s the matter with Kansas, indeed? Kansas getting salty!

  22. 22.

    Cacti

    October 25, 2019 at 2:12 pm

    Two points:

    1. Attorney-client privilege does not extend to impeachment proceedings, unless Congress chooses to recognize the same.

    2. Communications committing, abetting, or conspiring to commit a crime or fraud are not and never have been privileged.

  23. 23.

    MattF

    October 25, 2019 at 2:12 pm

    The question, for me, is whether this sort of high-level, weaponized swiftboating will work. You could, with care, get septic-tank dwellers like Corsi or Stone to peddle libels without sucking down the ‘respectable’ political actors. But Barr (and Trump) are not at all respectable. Will it still work? It’s not really the same old strategy.

  24. 24.

    Kristine

    October 25, 2019 at 2:13 pm

    Thank you for this post, Adam, as well as your others. As others have said, they’re highly educational. I just wish we weren’t living them in real life/real time.

  25. 25.

    Miss Bianca

    October 25, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    Damn, why is it that all roads lead back to Ukraine? I guess because all roads lead back to Putin? And Putin has decided that Ukraine needs to be Sovietized again? It just blows my mind how, starting with that Republican platform plank removal, Ukraine is the absolute center of a web of US-Russian (first typed ‘Soviet’, had to correct myself!) corruption.

  26. 26.

    The Moar You Know

    October 25, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    WTF is up with France opposing a three month delay to Brexit?

    @catclub: It’s called “kneecapping your competitor”. A no-deal Brexit would be GREAT for France’s business interests.

    ETA: a bit surprised that France hasn’t vetoed any extension yet…because they can. Any EU state can.

    The Brits may yet get what they asked for. They won’t like it.

  27. 27.

    Just Chuck

    October 25, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    The real deliverable is the United States of America. To Putin.

  28. 28.

    bluehill

    October 25, 2019 at 2:15 pm

    Now that’s some multi-dimensional chess. Will be interesting to see which of major dem candidates Putin wants to be the nominee as well as how he plans to monkey around with the primaries and convention. Then you have Barr and the DoJ providing interference. We are, unfortunately, living in interesting times.

  29. 29.

    dedc79

    October 25, 2019 at 2:20 pm

    This is fantastic. Thanks for putting it all in one place. On your final point – that this whole criminal enterprise is structured as interlocking attorney-client-consultant relationships to shield communications documenting the crimes – I think it’s worth noting that the arrest of Parnas and Fruman, and in particular the seizure of their phones and tapping of their conversations is therefore a BFD. SDNY now has a taint team of prosecutors reviewing all the seized communications. If they see that attorney-client privilege was being stamped on documents that had nothing to do with legal advice, or worse yet, on documents showing that the lawyers were helping to commit crimes, they can blow the whole thing up.

  30. 30.

    Raven Onthill

    October 25, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    I look at all this and say, “Oh, fergawdsakes, more of this garbage.”

    I don’t understand why more people aren’t just tired of all the crankery. The basic facts here aren’t hard to know, or check. Simple hypotheses are more likely to be valid than complex.

    Oh, well. Not enough cynical old birds I guess.

  31. 31.

    Cacti

    October 25, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    @Miss Bianca:

    Damn, why is it that all roads lead back to Ukraine? I guess because all roads lead back to Putin? And Putin has decided that Ukraine needs to be Sovietized again?

    Yes and yes, with the added element of bringing the U.S. down from within as a superpower.

  32. 32.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 2:23 pm

    A crusader against corruption: Why Donald Trump, Putin, and Russia are panicked about Joe Biden

    The Russians are back, and they have a target. Remember the Internet Research Agency? Yes, the one that was indicted in the Special Counsel’s investigation of Russian interference in the US elections in 2016? They are back. And they have a target.

    Joe Biden.

    Facebook on Monday said it removed a network of Russian-backed accounts that posed as locals weighing in on political issues in swing states, praising President Trump and attacking former vice president Joe Biden — illustrating that the familiar threat of Russian interference looms over the next U.S. presidential race.

    Facebook said the network bears the hallmark of the same Kremlin-backed group that interfered in the 2016 election by sowing social discord, seeking to boost Trump and attacking Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton.

    Joe Biden is not just a target of the Russian operatives this time, he appears to be the target. The Russian 2020 campaign is just as pervasive as the one they ran targeting Hillary Clinton in 2016, and that means that they are attempting to build natural-looking personas and groups. In turn, that means that these personas have their own viewpoints and candidates, and are sharing content and comments friendly to “their” candidates and some hostile to others. For example, pesonas masquerading as being from the Left attack Trump, and personas blending in with the Right took shots at Democrats.

  33. 33.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 2:26 pm

    Federal prosecutors in New York are gathering a lot of evidence from Parnas and Fruman.

  34. 34.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 2:27 pm

    “Interviews and company records obtained by ProPublica show Parnas worked closely with Solomon to facilitate his reporting, including helping with translation and interviews.” https://t.co/niwXv6xHin

    — Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) October 25, 2019

  35. 35.

    karensky

    October 25, 2019 at 2:29 pm

    @David Fud: Yup. And that is all they have.

  36. 36.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    A) The real deliverable wasn’t manufactured dirt on the Bidens. Rather, it was getting Zelensky to go on CNN to announce the opening of an investigation into the Bidens, because CNN is a mainstream news outlet and is in opposition to the President in its reporting. As soon as that happened, the President’s team would have campaign ads running 24/7 with this. They’d be pushing the reporters they often use, or who are primed for this type of cheap high like Ken Vogel, at mainstream outlets to get all over Zelensky’s announcement, thereby further laundering it and disseminating it through mainstream and legitimate outlets.

    This is why I enjoy your writing. This is so smart, and something that I never thought of. Makes so much sense. Why CNN and not Fox…so much sense

  37. 37.

    LuciaMia

    October 25, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    Of course, nobody would want the Orange Doofus a hundred miles near, but is there ANY White House representative at Elijah Cummings funeral?

  38. 38.

    Eljai

    October 25, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    Last night I listened to Rachel Maddow interview one of the NYT reporters who wrote the story about the criminal inquiry and I was kind of intrigued by how the reporter seemed to go out of her way to give people who don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt, the benefit of the doubt. I guess there’s a thin line between being objective and being so credulous that you allow yourself to be used as a tool.

  39. 39.

    Quaker in a Basement

    October 25, 2019 at 2:34 pm

    All of this requires more planning and coordination than one would expect from an impulsive, gratification-seeking narcissist. Who is running this game?

  40. 40.

    West of the Rockies

    October 25, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    An extremely informative post, Adam. Thank you!

    Do you anticipate any IC pushback on Barr? Additional leaks? Barr is directly threatening DOJ and IC “colleagues”, is he not?

  41. 41.

    Cacti

    October 25, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    Just came across this on another site.

    Has an article ever aged so poorly, so quickly?

    A liberal case for Donald Trump: The lesser of two evils is not at all clear in 2016
    Is there one? A Trump presidency needn’t be a nightmare for the left. On many issues, Clinton presidency might be

    Walker Bragman
    April 29, 2016

  42. 42.

    patrick II

    October 25, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    It was also the night after Barr both returned to the US from his “fact finding trip”, met with the SDNY, and then had dinner with Rupert Murdoch.

    I complained in a comment yesterday that Hannity is virtually untouchable because “journalist”, and now Murdoch, media mogul will not be touched even though they are both eyeball deep in fascist conspiracies. Murdoch also is involved in the Brexit conspiracy as well. He might be as good of a friend of Putin as Trump. I would like to seem them go down, but the storm raised by their fellow media members over fake journalists but real conspirators would be fearsome.
    There is being above the law because you have money, and above the law with both money and media as your base.

  43. 43.

    Kristine

    October 25, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: Cheryl, thanks for your posts as well, along with Twitter links.

    The fact that people like McConnell know all this and still do nothing should earn them jail time. I know it won’t. We may have to settle for wrecked reputations.

  44. 44.

    oatler.

    October 25, 2019 at 2:38 pm

    I believe the title should read” l’affaire”, and don’t you dare question my high school French from 50 years ago!

  45. 45.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 25, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    The problem with this theory is not with the theory itself. I’m certain that Putin is thinking in these terms, and no doubt several people on the Russian side and maybe, maybe, one or two Americans. The problem is that it’s all being run through the incompetents hired by a President who thinks ‘psyops’ refers to telepathy, except that’s another word he doesn’t know. The Russians were thinking of the deliverable as an announcement that could be information laundered. Trump was thinking of the deliverable as an announcement that’s the start of a real investigation that will produce real evidence of the crimes he’s sure happened and will exonerate him completely. Rudy certainly was.

  46. 46.

    Calouste

    October 25, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Vetoing a Brexit extension against the will of the other 26 EU members is going to cost Macron a lot of political capital.

  47. 47.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    ??Aunt Crabby calls Bullshit ?? (@DearAuntCrabby) Tweeted:
    Now it becomes clear.

    @RealDonaldTrump and Attorney General Bill Barr are creating this fake criminal investigation as smoke and mirrors to counter the Democratic Impeachment Investigation.

    It is so obvious, right? https://twitter.com/DearAuntCrabby/status/1187547336857313281?s=17

  48. 48.

    Chris T.

    October 25, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    if you know Slavs, you know fatalism is endemic

    I don’t just know them, I also have Slavic ancestry. If I’m fated to fall into fatalism, so be it.

  49. 49.

    glory b

    October 25, 2019 at 2:51 pm

    @Cacti: Another point I made before, every conversation with an attorney isn’t privileged, just those involving legal advice.

  50. 50.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    @Eljai:

    and I was kind of intrigued by how the reporter seemed to go out of her way to give people who don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt, the benefit of the doubt.

    That’s why I couldn’t last night. The unbearable Whiteness of Privilege wrapped up all in that bullshyt the reporter was spouting.

  51. 51.

    Chris T.

    October 25, 2019 at 2:54 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Yes, Ukraine is hugely important to Russia: it has the best wheat, a warm-water port, and the oil-and-gas pipelines Russian interests need to use to sell the product to Western Europe.

  52. 52.

    glory b

    October 25, 2019 at 2:55 pm

    This sounds like the scheme put together by Bush II’s AG, firing local US Attorneys who wouldn’t announce contrived investigations into Dems right before elections,

    Of course, this would have been contra their ethics guidelines, because they were not to make such announcements BECAUSE THEY WOULD TEND TO INTERFERE WITH THE OUTCOME OF ELECTIONS!!!!! (emphasis mine)

  53. 53.

    Jinchi

    October 25, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    I’m always bothered by the fact that Giuliani, like Manafort is perfectly happy declaring that he works “pro-bono” for Trump, one of the richest and most politically powerful people in the world.

    Why?

    More to the point, why isn’t he asked that question everytime he shows up on CNN or MSNBC peddling nonsense about Joe Biden’s son?

    Because the obvious conclusion is that instead of charging Trump basic legal fees, he sells access to Trump to his other clients around the world. Basically, he’s working as a foreign agent.

  54. 54.

    Hilly

    October 25, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    @Soprano2: What Soprano2 said. Between Adam S. and Cheryl Rofer, Balloon-Juice has the best possible analysis of our corrupt Republican administration.

  55. 55.

    Chris T.

    October 25, 2019 at 2:59 pm

    @Jinchi: Yes, it’s like the rule about things like the Book of Faces: if you’re not paying for the product, you are the product.

  56. 56.

    Dmbeaster

    October 25, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    @catclub: A valid point, but realize this about the great man theory of history. It tends to be a hindsight view of events, so hypes the alleged singular importance of individuals as allegedly the cause of events, even though it could have been other individuals and proceeded a little bit differently. Then those individuals for that time line become the alleged “great persons.”

    But in real time and getting stuff done, it depends on individuals. Firtash is probably a great candidate to implement certain ends even though hobbled somewhat at this time.

  57. 57.

    dedc79

    October 25, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    In a year of incredible headlines, this one still manages to stand out:
    Rudy Giuliani butt-dials NBC reporter, heard discussing need for cash and trashing Bidens

  58. 58.

    smintheus

    October 25, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    This story was leaked to the Times to launder it in the same way that Judith Miller laundered the administration’s BS regarding Iraq. For me the most telling thing about the story, its vagueness with regard to details (including chronology), was underlined by the fact that we aren’t even told what the supposed crime was that converted a snipe hunt into a “criminal” investigation. If Barr had anything that was even remotely plausible, he would have leaked it for maximum effect. The whole point of the leak was very likely to provide Trump with a reset in the impeachment investigation. You can’t really expect a reset if your criminal conspiracy doesn’t have a crime for the gullible media to talk about.

  59. 59.

    Emerald

    October 25, 2019 at 3:04 pm

    @Kristine: Problem is, even wrecked reputations aren’t really wrecked if you spend all your time it the rightwing bubble. If they escape prison or even after they’re released, they’ll spend the rest of their lives feted as martyred heroes of the Right.

    They can’t lose.

  60. 60.

    Jinchi

    October 25, 2019 at 3:04 pm

    @rikyrah:

    The Russians are back, and they have a target.

    The Russian target is anyone who threatens Trump’s re-election. They targeted his Republican primary opponents in 2016, as well as Clinton, and they will target any Democrat who looks like they could displace their puppet.

  61. 61.

    Another Scott

    October 25, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    Twitter:

    HumanScumHat @Popehat

    HumanScumHat Retweeted Rebecca Ballhaus

    Giuliani: So we need a deal, a quick pro quota if you will, that Ukraine will…

    Ukrainian 1: what is beep

    Giuliani: What?

    U1: your ass is making beep beep beep

    Giuliani: [checking pocket] Huh. How funny. I dialed the Chief of the Criminal Division.

    Rebecca Ballhaus Verified account @rebeccaballhaus

    Rudy Giuliani butt-dialed an NBC reporter and could be overheard telling another man: “The problem is we need some money.”
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rudy-giuliani-butt-dials-nbc-reporter-heard-discussing-need-cash-n1071901 …

    12:02 PM – 25 Oct 2019

    Because of course he did.

    Be Best Well Oiled Machine.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  62. 62.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 3:08 pm

    Rudy Giuliani butt-dialed an NBC News reporter — twice — leaving long voicemail messages in which he's heard discussing Joe Biden, business in Bahrain and his need for cash. By @richschapiro https://t.co/52GCnjhoJC

    — NBC Investigations (@NBCInvestigates) October 25, 2019

  63. 63.

    Jeffro

    October 25, 2019 at 3:08 pm

    @dedc79: @Another Scott: I just saw this, and I am simply dying. DY-ing.

    I wouldn’t trust these guys to successfully put together a peanut butter sandwich. They would smear the peanut butter on the counter, lose the lid, drop the bread, and accidentally eat the twist tie or knife or both.

  64. 64.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 3:09 pm

    @oatler.: is correct

  65. 65.

    Chyron HR

    October 25, 2019 at 3:11 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Yeah, but we have real evidence, and they have Rudy going “I saw Goodie Clinton dancing with the Devil!”

  66. 66.

    Anonymous At Work

    October 25, 2019 at 3:13 pm

    RE: ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE:
    Two points.
    First, can we get a practicing (in SDNY, especially) attorney to comment on how claims of attorney-client privilege are adjudicated in federal court? In camera review would be my guess, but only a guess.

    Second, would the SDNY federal prosecutor be willing to challenge any such claims of privilege? That, to me, is a problem here. A Democrat or a nominally independent Republican appointee should press their case without fail but does the SDNY prosecutor have the cajones to pierce the shield of the President’s personal attorney?

  67. 67.

    Frankensteinbeck

    October 25, 2019 at 3:13 pm

    @rikyrah:

    @RealDonaldTrump and Attorney General Bill Barr are creating this fake criminal investigation as smoke and mirrors to counter the Democratic Impeachment Investigation.

    That is only a minor purpose. Trump has wanted this investigation since day one, because he’s an asshole who must be right, so anyone who defies him is a criminal and should be punished. From all the running around, I’m getting the impression that Trump is getting more and more obsessively angry about this issue, and he has kicked out the people willing to say “I won’t do that because it’s a stupid waste of time.” When Trump says ‘jump’ Barr is already in the air when he asks “How high?”

  68. 68.

    debbie

    October 25, 2019 at 3:16 pm

    If this sounds familiar, it is similar to how Roy Cohn handled his legal representation of the organized crime families he represented in New York.

    Heh, I wasn’t making a conscious comparison, but I’ve found myself lately hoping that Trump will die a Roy Cohn-type death.

  69. 69.

    debbie

    October 25, 2019 at 3:18 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Do those recordings have any chance of being admissible evidence?

  70. 70.

    catclub

    October 25, 2019 at 3:20 pm

    @smintheus:

    was underlined by the fact that we aren’t even told what the supposed crime was that converted a snipe hunt into a “criminal” investigation. If Barr had anything that was even remotely plausible, he would have leaked it for maximum effect.

    I agree

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    October 25, 2019 at 3:21 pm

    @Another Scott: More from the Popehat thread…

    HumanScumHat @Popehat

    Ukrainian 1: WHY YOU CALLING JUSTICE PLACE WHILE WE ARE DOING THE CRIMES

    GIULIANI: IT WAS BY ACCIDENT I DIDN’T KNOW I DIALED

    Ukrainian 2: And why is light on that hotel phone?

    U1: is SPEAKER PHONE LIGHT!

    FBI Agent on Speaker Phone: sup

    2nd Agent on Speaker Phone: awkward

    rofl.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  72. 72.

    dedc79

    October 25, 2019 at 3:22 pm

    @Anonymous At Work: In a normal civil dispute in SDNY, the party producing the documents would log and withhold documents it claims to be privileged. The other side could then challenge the claim with respect to specific documents, and (in cases i’ve been involved in), the judge may elect to do his/her own review of the disputed documents before rendering a decision. Here we have a criminal case where the govt has already seized communications. There is a “taint team” working through the materials to exclude privileged communications. They use the taint team so that the investigation isn’t compromised by someone on the investigation seeing a privileged document they shouldn’t have properly seen. None of that precludes some dispute over privilege at a later date, prompting the assigned judge to undertake his own review.

  73. 73.

    catclub

    October 25, 2019 at 3:22 pm

    @debbie:

    but I’ve found myself lately hoping that Trump will die a Roy Cohn-type death.

    alone with no friends. probably. Soon? probably not.

  74. 74.

    Gravenstone

    October 25, 2019 at 3:23 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Employ the ceiling. Then consider adding a fourth dimension…

  75. 75.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 25, 2019 at 3:26 pm

    It makes perfect sense that The Whistleblower would be Rudy Giuliani’s butt https://t.co/MiHPWXowCA— Michael Tannenbaum (@iamTannenbaum) October 25, 2019

  76. 76.

    TomatoQueen

    October 25, 2019 at 3:27 pm

    I am wondering now just how much reliance we can place on the ongoing activities of SDNY. Barr went hither, thither, to SDNY and lastly to Murdoch, you say? Then is SDNY safe as of that night? As of this morning? Also, too, in the long FNYT piece linked, there is mention of Durham using AUSA staff, including Norah Dannehy, of whom it sickened me to read, because I did know her rather better. She, all five foot nothing and a head of flaming red hair, was a very fine tough prosecutor in those days. Ask Doctah Fucknoze what she is now. I can’t explain it when the ‘resign to save your soul’ situation comes up and the soul apparently has little significance.

  77. 77.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 25, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    Howell rules that DOJ must provide the House the grand jury material redacted form Mueller's report by Oct. 30.— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) October 25, 2019

  78. 78.

    lurker dean

    October 25, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    lol.

    booty guiliani https://t.co/YmbpDDvbhL— Steadman™ (@AsteadWesley) October 25, 2019

  79. 79.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 25, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    DOUBLE !!: Howell determines that the House is in the middle of "an official impeachment inquiry."— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) October 25, 2019

  80. 80.

    Patricia Kayden

    October 25, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    BREAKING (!): Judge rules the House is entitled to Mueller grand jury material. Huge win for Judiciary Committee / Dems. pic.twitter.com/ahru9pUl1y— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) October 25, 2019

  81. 81.

    Millard Filmore

    October 25, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    @Kristine:

    The fact that people like McConnell know all this and still do nothing should earn them jail time. I know it won’t. We may have to settle for wrecked reputations.

    I have great confidence that McConnell’s judgement did not slip just this one time, for this one subject. That’s not how this works.

  82. 82.

    Another Scott

    October 25, 2019 at 3:33 pm

    Twitter

    Kyle Cheney Verified account @kyledcheney

    BREAKING (!): Judge rules the House is entitled to Mueller grand jury material. Huge win for Judiciary Committee / Dems.

    12:20 PM – 25 Oct 2019

    tick, tock …

    (via Popehat)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  83. 83.

    Mike in NC

    October 25, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    Everybody in the inner circle of Putin’s puppet — Barr, Pompeo, Giuliani, Pence, Graham, etc. — must be assumed to be on the Kremlin payroll as well. Lock them all up.

  84. 84.

    Millard Filmore

    October 25, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    @Calouste:

    Vetoing a Brexit extension against the will of the other 26 EU members is going to cost Macron a lot of political capital.

    Plus he will have to deal with the flood of economic refugees that come streaming across the channel. //

  85. 85.

    debbie

    October 25, 2019 at 3:35 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I’m happy for that second tweet. The first one could have been taken to mean the Rethugs were right that the inquiry has to be public.

  86. 86.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 3:41 pm

    @debbie: You’d have to ask our legal brigade

  87. 87.

    trollhattan

    October 25, 2019 at 3:42 pm

    I ain’t linking but if your stomach is feeling Friday Strong, Sully has an Atlantic piece where he compares/contrasts Trump and Boris. It will surprise essentially nobody that the Tory git concludes that while Trump is busy destroying democracy, Boris is busy defending it! An amuse douche:

    It’s clear to me now — as it should be to any dispassionate observer — that the pro-Remain parliamentary and media elites in all parties have never had any intention of honoring the result of the 2016 referendum. And they still don’t. They are sabotaging that democratic decision simply because they did not like the result, and they’re too chicken to take that case to the polls.

    Aww, poor fella, left out there all alone. Notice no reference to the Brexiteers vast collection of pre-referendum lies, the weakly worded referendum itself and the Russian hacking (the what, now?!?).

  88. 88.

    Jeffro

    October 25, 2019 at 3:42 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: @Another Scott: Oh…looks like we’re going to have one of THOSE Friday afternoons…

  89. 89.

    trollhattan

    October 25, 2019 at 3:44 pm

    @catclub:
    Does this mean I don’t get my Melania-applied pillow?

  90. 90.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 25, 2019 at 3:45 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: This fucking bozo runs a cybersecurity company?

  91. 91.

    Miss Bianca

    October 25, 2019 at 3:45 pm

    @Jeffro: LOL! What an image!

    Rudy & Co: The Gang that Couldn’t Even Dial Straight, Let Alone Shoot!

  92. 92.

    Gin & Tonic

    October 25, 2019 at 3:46 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: This fucking bozo runs a cybersecurity company?

  93. 93.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    @lurker dean:

    booty guiliani https://t.co/YmbpDDvbhL— Steadman™ (@AsteadWesley) October 25, 2019

    LMAO!

  94. 94.

    rikyrah

    October 25, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    Everybody in the inner circle of Putin’s puppet — Barr, Pompeo, Giuliani, Pence, Graham, etc. — must be assumed to be on the Kremlin payroll as well. Lock them all up.

    AMEN

  95. 95.

    Aleta

    October 25, 2019 at 3:50 pm

    John Solomon was part of the smear campaign against Alexandra Chalupa, which brought threats to her safety. Some of his claims about her and the DNC and Ukraine were then reported by other outlets, making them seem like general knowledge.

    Anyone can get sucked into this; Adam, even you repeated one part of the claim that originated with Solomon etc.

    September 26, 2019 at 10:10 am
    @Adam L Silverman:
    The latter was Andrea Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American former DNC staffer who was working her familial based contacts back in Ukraine to get oppo material about Manafort once he was brought into the campaign.

    which after comments from G and T and me you later corrected.

    The latter was Andrea Alexandra Chalupa, a Ukrainian-American former DNC staffer who has been falsely accused, as part of the disinformation and conspiracy theories based on them, of working her familial based contacts back in Ukraine to get oppo material about Manafort once he was brought into the campaign.

    I see now you later responded to me:

    Any other demands of my time you’d like to make? My consulting rates start at $200 per hour, minimum of 8 hours plus expenses. Please send me an email indicating where I can send the invoice so you can pay me for the work you’ve asked me to undertake.

    Since my comment was to correct the dissemination of misinformation, that seems uncalled for.

  96. 96.

    Miss Bianca

    October 25, 2019 at 3:57 pm

    @Another Scott: U1: “Look at me I am the Trump I want investigation now, rarr rarr rarr”

    OK, now I am dead.

  97. 97.

    Kent

    October 25, 2019 at 3:58 pm

    @Millard Filmore:

    @Calouste:

    Vetoing a Brexit extension against the will of the other 26 EU members is going to cost Macron a lot of political capital.

    Plus he will have to deal with the flood of economic refugees that come streaming across the channel. //

    Political capital within the EU? Perhaps. But within France? Are the French really going to disapprove of something that brings pain to the UK? I’d think the opposite. This sort of move is likely to earn him political capital within France, both because he is dissing the EU and also because he is dissing the Brits.

    But then what do I know?

  98. 98.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    October 25, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    @Millard Filmore:

    Plus he will have to deal with the flood of economic refugees that come streaming across the channel.

    He will need Wall.

  99. 99.

    Fair Economist

    October 25, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: This could become momentous. It could expose the extent to which the Russian and the right in general engage in straightforward media manipulation – and not just offering access; direct work to plant false stories.

  100. 100.

    Fair Economist

    October 25, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    @Kent:

    Political capital within the EU? Perhaps. But within France? Are the French really going to disapprove of something that brings pain to the UK

    It will bring a lot of pain to France, too. Airbus will have production trouble for years. There will be substantial losses and layoffs in goods like wine and cheese exported to the UK, and in shipment in general. Plus it will let the Tories off the hook, because BloJo can say “I was working to get a deal approved and Macron cut us off, so blame *him* for the agonies of Brexit”. And everybody with a problem will blame Macron.

  101. 101.

    Another Scott

    October 25, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    @catclub: Eh? Macron always plays bad cop with this Brexit stuff – he wants to increase the pain so that others don’t try it. But a Brexit delay has been agreed – just not the duration yet.

    At least that’s my understanding.

    Paging Tony Jay!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  102. 102.

    zhena gogolia

    October 25, 2019 at 4:04 pm

    @Quaker in a Basement:

    Vladimir Vladimirovich.

  103. 103.

    HermanNewticks

    October 25, 2019 at 4:05 pm

    IANAL, well, not THAT kind of lawyer, but I wonder if Barr’s new criminal investigation is also a pretense to extend blanket immunity to everyone in the Ukraine mess in exchange for testimony in the made-up case.

  104. 104.

    Fair Economist

    October 25, 2019 at 4:07 pm

    @smintheus:

    This story was leaked to the Times to launder it in the same way that Judith Miller laundered the administration’s BS regarding Iraq.

    And of course they’re doing it with the Times. Something really foul is going on there.

  105. 105.

    NJeff

    October 25, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    The attorney client privilege does not attach to conversation where the attorney was consulted in furtherance of a crime.

    Past crimes = privileged.
    Future criming = not privileged.

    Asserting the privilege will by team Dipshit some weeks or months as it is argued in court, but the will loose if they’re in front of an honest judge.

  106. 106.

    gene108

    October 25, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    I think “Black Comedy PyOps” is the word here considering how it’s blown up in their face.

    Worked all too well in 2016. Especially how the MSM aided and abetted it by blindly repeating whatever stolen documents were published by WikiLeaks.

    I think they’ll find outlets to push some sort of narrative that will hurt, whoever the Democratic nominee is, and unless there’s actual documentation – like what the White House released on the 7/25/19, between Trump & Zelensky, in response to the whistle blower – it will probably work again.

    There were a lot of “clouds” over the Bidens articles published prior to the whistle blower information becoming public. The MSM wants to reflexively go back to “both sides” journalism, which is their comfort zone, but they can’t with regards to Trump and Biden conspiracy rumors.

    The only real hope is none of the other candidates have become entrenched or rich enough off of politics to give out favors to family or friends or somehow do something that’s otherwise legal, but which a disinformation campaign can twist around.

  107. 107.

    Anonymous At Work

    October 25, 2019 at 4:11 pm

    @dedc79: That’s for documents. What about for appearing/answering questions for a deposition or trial? You know, where they swear you in and start recording everything you say. Depositions don’t observe a lot of objections, I remember, but I don’t remember if it was “all” or “most”.
    It’s been never since I practiced but I remember drabs my law school days.

    And yes, while these rats don’t respect the rules, they will try and abuse them. So, I want to know what abuse can be expected vs. what will make the judge mad.

  108. 108.

    Bill Arnold

    October 25, 2019 at 4:13 pm

    Gravenstone:

    Employ the ceiling. Then consider adding a fourth dimension…

    The Veridicality of Color: A case study of potential human tetrachromacy. (or Human Potential for Tetrachromacy (Kimberly A. Jameson, 2009))
    Or Adam could arrange for his DNA to be hacked so that he can see more yarn colors. (And he’d (probably) need another X chromosome and some serious neuroplasticizers, but hey.)
    Scented yarn might be tempting.
    [This is praise of Adam’s post, btw.]

  109. 109.

    sdhays

    October 25, 2019 at 4:13 pm

    @Fair Economist: Macron has griped about each extension, and I know that a lot of governments in the EU are pretty weary of the pathetic Brexit drama in London, but the assumption has always been that when push comes to shove, no one wants to be responsible for shoving the UK out. Is it not just similar posturing?

  110. 110.

    Another Scott

    October 25, 2019 at 4:14 pm

    @Miss Bianca: As others have mentioned, Russian gas travels/traveled through Ukraine to other parts of Europe. Putin loved using fossil fuels to get others to do what he wants, and Ukraine is/was throwing a monkey-wrench in that.

    Plus, Ukraine (and Georgia) wants to be in NATO and Putin wants to destroy NATO. And one way to keep Georgia and Ukraine out of NATO is to be at a low level war with them. Reuters from 2018:

    […]

    The issue has been a source of anger for Russia — which shares a border with both countries and does not want to see them join what it regards as a hostile military bloc — since 2008 when NATO leaders promised Ukraine and Georgia they would one day join the alliance.

    Putin, speaking to Russian diplomats from around the world assembled in Moscow, said on Thursday there was a need to restore trust in Europe and spoke out against what he said was NATO’s attempts to deploy new bases and military infrastructure near Russia’s borders.

    “We will respond appropriately to such aggressive steps, which pose a direct threat to Russia,” said Putin.

    […]

    Russian forces entered two breakaway Georgian regions in 2008 and annexed Ukraine’s Crimea in 2014 after which a pro-Russian separatist uprising erupted in eastern Ukraine.

    Swathes of both countries remain garrisoned by Russian troops, something Moscow says is in keeping with local people’s wishes, but which the West and the governments of the two countries call an illegal occupation.

    NATO leaders discussed ties with Ukraine and Georgia – both former Soviet republics once ruled from Moscow — at their summit in Brussels earlier this month.

    Prominent politicians in both countries are keen to join the Western military alliance, but have seen their chances of joining hampered by Russian territorial incursions.

    Under NATO rules, countries with territorial conflicts cannot join NATO.

    IOW, unless NATO rules change, Vlad is vetoing those countries joining NATO. And he’ll continue doing so unless the cost is increased (or some other accommodation is made).

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  111. 111.

    Gravenstone

    October 25, 2019 at 4:15 pm

    @trollhattan:

    have never had any intention of honoring the result of the 2016 non-binding referendum

    Ya skipped a word there, Sparky.

  112. 112.

    Bill Arnold

    October 25, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    And yes, while these rats don’t respect the rules, they will try and abuse them.

    Re rats (hey it’s Friday):
    Scientists have trained rats to drive tiny cars to collect food (Alice Klein, 22 October 2019)
    This finding echoes Lambert’s previous work showing that rats become less stressed after they master difficult tasks like digging up buried food. They may get the same kind of satisfaction as we get when we perfect a new skill, she says. “In humans, we call this self-efficacy or agency.”
    In support of this idea, the team found that rats that drove themselves had higher dehydroepiandrosterone levels and were less stressed than rats that were driven around as passengers in remote-controlled cars.

  113. 113.

    RobNYNY

    October 25, 2019 at 4:23 pm

    @Cacti:

    Also:

    (1) The privilege is lost if an unrelated third party is present (not a stenographer or translator), or if the privileged matter is disclosed to a third party.

    (2) The privilege does not cover matters other than legal advice. The mere presence of a lawyer does not make a non-legal matter privileged.

  114. 114.

    Aleta

    October 25, 2019 at 4:28 pm

    Spencer Hsu @hsu_spencer

    In weighty 75-page opinion, U.S. Chief Judge Beryl Howell of Washington upholds House impeachment inquiry as “judicial preceeding,” releases Mueller grand jury materials that DOJ had refused House Judiciary Committee.

    Story

  115. 115.

    Aleta

    October 25, 2019 at 4:31 pm

    @Aleta: From link above to Post story

    In a 75-page opinion, Chief U.S. District Judge Beryl A. Howell of Washington cited a 1974 federal appeals court decision in Haldeman v. Sirica that upheld that congressional impeachment proceedings are excepted from normal grand jury secrecy rules.

    “In carrying out the weighty constitutional duty of determining whether impeachment of the President is warranted, Congress need not redo the nearly two years of effort spent on the Special Counsel’s investigation, nor risk being misled by witnesses, who may have provided information to the grand jury and the Special Counsel that varies from what they tell” the House, Howell wrote.
    She found that a House impeachment investigation and Senate trial qualifies under an grand jury material exemption that permits prosecutors to share information “preliminary to or in connection with a judicial proceeding.”

    At a hearing earlier this month, Howell called “extreme” the arguments presented by Trump administration lawyers who opposed the House request for Mueller grand-jury materials, which predated Congress’s current impeachment inquiry surrounding the Trump administration’s dealings with Ukraine.

  116. 116.

    catclub

    October 25, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    @trollhattan:

    that the pro-Remain parliamentary and media elites in all parties have never had any intention of honoring the result of the 2016 referendum.

    ask them if it was considered a ‘binding referendum’ when it was proposed. it wasn’t.

  117. 117.

    catclub

    October 25, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    @Gravenstone: curses! beat me to it.

  118. 118.

    Kent

    October 25, 2019 at 4:37 pm

    @Another Scott:

    @catclub: Eh? Macron always plays bad cop with this Brexit stuff – he wants to increase the pain so that others don’t try it. But a Brexit delay has been agreed – just not the duration yet.

    At least that’s my understanding.

    Paging Tony Jay!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    If the EU really wants to fuck with the UK they will approve an indefinite extension with no deadline at all. And then watch the Tories continue to debate Brexit on into 2030 and beyond.

  119. 119.

    Ladyraxterinok

    October 25, 2019 at 4:37 pm

    @West of the Rockies:
    From an earlier discussion on this blog it seems Barr is very much a super conservative Catholic warrior working to create a Christian theocracy. See speech he made at Notre Dame?, Opus Dei influence

    M$M, TV pundits are barely aware of white Evangelical influence pushing a theocracy. They really don’t see super conservative Catholic influence. If they do, they tend to write claims about it as long-time anti-Catholic bias. (See, for ex, book that was really big in SoBaptist circles in OK in the 50s American Fredom and Catholic Power. I read a bit of this as a young teen. Scary stuff!)

  120. 120.

    StringOnAStick

    October 25, 2019 at 4:41 pm

    My deepest thanks to Adam for writing these articles for us!

  121. 121.

    Ladyraxterinok

    October 25, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    @patrick II:
    There was some discussion on earlier post at this blog about ties between Mudoch and Putin and Ivanka though a mistress/wife/girl-friend Wendy or Wenge , born in mainland China, maybe a Chinese agent

  122. 122.

    Quinerly

    October 25, 2019 at 4:54 pm

    @Ladyraxterinok: Wendy was married to Murdoch. She has children by him. He’s now with Jerry Hall (M Jagger’s ex). There has been a rumor for years that Wendy is with Putin. Wendy was/is close to Ivanka. Seems like she might have had a hand in introducing Jared and Ivanka. Don’t hold me to that last part. Wendy is indeed Chinese.

  123. 123.

    dedc79

    October 25, 2019 at 5:03 pm

    @Anonymous At Work: For most types of objections during depositions, the lawyer makes the objection and the witness can still answer. It all gets sorted out later if one side tries to use the answer to a question that was objected to. But for questions that would elicit a privileged response, the attorney can instruct the witness not to answer. If the person takes the deposition wants to, they can try to reach out to the judge/magistrate in real time to resolve the dispute, but more often than not it gets argued after the deposition and they bring the witness back if necessary.

  124. 124.

    Quinerly

    October 25, 2019 at 5:04 pm

    @Ladyraxterinok: I checked her Wiki page. I had forgotten about her first husband who was originally part of a couple who sponsored her/she was living with. She broke up that marriage. Also there is a rumor she and Tony Blair had an affair.

  125. 125.

    Cheryl Rofer

    October 25, 2019 at 5:07 pm

    Looks like we've got a trend story. pic.twitter.com/Wn1Hn1zzcU

    — Aaron Blake (@AaronBlake) October 25, 2019

  126. 126.

    swiftfox

    October 25, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    I’m not even going to wade through previous comments. It’s a good thing Trump admitted what he was doing. The average American does not have the attention span to process the information. A decision tree might do the trick.

  127. 127.

    Olivia

    October 25, 2019 at 5:46 pm

    Adam, thank you for making that as clear as it is possible to make it. And Cheryl, thanks for your information too.

  128. 128.

    Tony Jay

    October 25, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Macron does seem to be playing bad cop/clever arse in the discussions over extending the Brexit deadline. I can see the politics of it. Johnson has clearly been shuffling towards his golden throne on bloodstained knee begging and pleading for un petit temps por amour avec l’poulet and why wouldn’t Emmanuel say yes? Sure, it seems to be pissing off the rest of the EU who would prefer (they say) to give the 3 month extension now, but if France is willing to shoulder the burden of playing the hard man (France? Incroyable!) the rest of the 27 are ‘powerless’ to remove the threat of a shorter technical extension, which keeps Johnson sweet, while also keeping alive the possibility that the UK might be forced to accept Johnson’s shit deal and avoid a No Deal.

    That won’t happen (93% certain) but you can see why Europe would be okay with it and France would quietly get a few pats on the back for forcing the issue.

    I’m okay with it. Labour have always said no Election without an extension, and with France holding things up it’s easier for them to leave Johnson swinging on the meathook of his incompetence. Fuck his arrogant demand for an Election just because he desperately wants to keep prying eyes from the innards of his shoddy pastiche of May’s Deal. The pressure is on and everything he tries turns to shit, which reminds me of something……

    Keep him under the cosh, vote down his Election demand, humiliate him at every turn. The extension will come, and THEN we’ll see how he does in a proper Election.

  129. 129.

    sgrAstar

    October 25, 2019 at 6:52 pm

    @Quaker in a Basement:

    Who is running this game?

    trump has always been the tool of murky interests like the Mercers. It’s impossible to think of him as anything more than a useful idiot. He’s the Potemkin Village that was constructed to disguise the malign workings of Putin and his fellow travelers. Trump is a problem, but is in no way the biggest problem we have. That’s why the post-trump cleanup ops are so important.
    Respectfully,
    ?

  130. 130.

    Ksmiami

    October 25, 2019 at 7:50 pm

    @rikyrah: and send Trump to the ICC for crimes against humanity

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