Before I head out to shovel again, commenter Dorothy A. Winsor posted the 8-page resolution and I thought it would be good to front page it. You can find the entire document here.
Here’s the one-page fact sheet:
Open thread
Reader Interactions
77Comments
Comments are closed.
Avalune
Does the President also get a trophy for participation?
(Something about his childish behavior in general and “gives him a chance to participate” just struck me funny).
Is there a pizza party after when they hand out the trophies?
Avalune
And the next award…is Most Impeachable!
Donald Trump!
dmsilev
Staff counsel doing the questioning is a really good idea. Too many of the Congresscritters, on both sides of the aisle unfortunately, are either very bad at questioning or are more interested in getting off a personal sound bite than getting information from the witnesses. I’m wondering why only 45 minutes per side though. Seems like that could be limiting.
psycholinguist
MSNBC correspondent just now describing the Trump/Sondland/RudyColudy plot: “wanted the Ukraine to manufacture evidence against Hunter Biden. Calling it manufactured rather than “digging up dirt” or the like seems a big deal. Let’s hope that’s a trend.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So have the Trumpsters already using some Freeman on the Land level stupid arguement that the border on the document means it’s not legal?
Mary G
@dmsilev: I will be happy not to have to hit the mute button every five minutes, for sure.
hueyplong
Love how they set up eligible questioners so that lead GOP one is an idiot and importable warm bodies aren’t eligible.
bemused
Just had a political “vote for me” message on our landline from a Joe Berelli and heard the name DeBlasio. Looked up Berelli who is indeed running to be a public advocate in New York City. We are in Minnesota. What the hell.
rikyrah
@dmsilev:
should be at least 90 minutes’ worth of continuous questioning.
BobS
Lock him up!
zzyzx
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: God I hope so. Those are my favorites. I love watching people who think that they can completely outsmart decades of laws due to a font technicality.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@bemused: have you ever donated to or contacted an NYC pol? The way those lists get bought/sold/passed around is a mystery. I haven’t given money to any primary candidates, but I get at least half a dozen emails from Harris every day, none of the other candidates. Weirder, I emailed John McCain about the MCA and got spam from him and a couple other AZ Republicans for years.
Leto
Concerning the ability for Trumpov to “participate”, was that the precedent established in both Nixon and Clinton’s impeachment cases? That their counsel’s were allowed to participate in the House deliberations?
SiubhanDuinne
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Say WHUT now?
Elizabelle
Baud’s back. He’s back, he’s back, he’s back. Or at least, says he will be in a few days.
Made an appearance on this morning’s thread. The Bat Signal worked.
HumboldtBlue
I haven’t read Salon in years but Bob Cesca has penned a worthy read.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Still baffled that that Goodhair, as Ms Ivins called him, signed on for a second-tier cabinet post with trump. Surely the pastures open to him as a two-term gov of TX were full of tall, sweet grass.
trollhattan
@Avalune:
Yes, pizza in the basement served up by Killary. “Have some nice, hot ‘za, my little pretties!”
dmsilev
@SiubhanDuinne: The “sovereign citizen” movement likes to claim that any court proceeding in which the court has a gold-fringed American flag is invalid because something something Admiralty law gibber howl look a Sasquatch! I think that was what was being alluded to.
bemused
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I have never donated or contacted any pol from NYC. The only political thing I’ve done is get tickets to a northern MN DFL fundraiser earlier this month which went through Act Blue.
mrmoshpotato
@Avalune: Someone say pizza party?
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Must always remember he took the job not knowing what the Energy Department did. Did not know about the nukes, for an example.
He truly thought it was a sweet Chamber of Congress gig roaming the planet cuttin’ deals for awhl and gas.
Fucking Texas…..
MisterForkbeard
I haven’t had time to read the thing yet, but what provisions does this make for the White House to get involved? Is it “You get to wait until the Inquiry is over” or “You can have a representative present and there are times you can speak up” or “We’re giving you the change to interact responsibly, but if you keep refusing to cooperate with subpoenas then all your requests are denied”?
I think it’s the third one.
Also, please note that Jason Chaffetz and Hannity are harrumphing because 72 hours is not enough time to review an 8-page document that almost entirely matches existing procedure.
Gelfling 545
@Avalune: Perfect.
Avalune
@mrmoshpotato: My son came in on the tail end of the right age for some Fosters. POTATO!
eclare
@Elizabelle: Yay!
Avalune
@mrmoshpotato:
Leto
@dmsilev: Also only a sheriff can preside over any dispute because that’s as much as the Constitution allows.
@MisterForkbeard: I can believe that 72 hours isn’t enough time for them. 72 years hasn’t been enough time to teach Trumpov how to read.
BobS
@MisterForkbeard: To be fair, it is Jason Chaffetz and Sean Hannity you’re talking about- that’s almost 3 pages/day.
Gelfling 545
@dmsilev: A relative was in court last week while a sovereign citizen was representing himself. Said it was both hysterically funny & alarming. It started with a big discussion of what his name is. Apparently he has several.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Gelfling 545: Yeah, there’s some weird mumbo-jumbo about “John Doe” vs “the citizen named John Doe” or something. If I try to actually remember their actual legal theory I will go insane.
zhena gogolia
@Elizabelle:
Oh, great!!!!!
mrmoshpotato
@Avalune: The Curse of the Cannibal Ghost of the Haunted House on Horror Hill
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@MisterForkbeard:
These are the same people who defend writing huge tax bills in secret and then dumping them on the House floor five seconds prior to voting, right?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Yes.
zzyzx
@Gelfling 545: my favorite is the one skeptical sovereign citizen that had a web page I found years ago. “All of these theories are debunked! Do not use them! However, this other ridiculously stupid theory has never been tried!”
It’s all classic conspiracy theory: there’s a secret that is completely hidden that would change everything, oh and also it’s so out in the open that here’s a bunch of web pages about it.
Martin
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: There’s supposed to be a minimum 0.625″ margin on all impeachment memos. And when using a full-width letterhead, the text of the body should not extend beyond that of the letterhead.
Clearly this means that this is an illegal impeachment effort.
mrmoshpotato
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Don’t forget the cut off right margin and chickenscratch galore!
Mnemosyne
@Gelfling 545:
I have honestly come to believe that anyone making public claims to being a sovereign citizen should be given an automatic 72-hour psychiatric hold so they can be evaluated. Way too many of those people have freaked the fuck out and started shooting when their delusions get challenged.
mrmoshpotato
@Martin: It also means the Dumocrats are total losers and nah nah nah nah boo boo.
Roger Moore
@Elizabelle:
FTYF.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Martin: I believe that the memo must be issued by the Marshal of the Supreme Court.
FelonyGovt
@Avalune: He would be the kid picking his nose in the middle of the soccer field during an AYSO game who gets a participation trophy.
HeleninEire
@Elizabelle: GREAT NEWS.
Chief Oshkosh
@MisterForkbeard: It’s very wide margins and double-spaced. First and last page have almost no text. Much of it is redundant because it describes the nearly-identical powers of the Chair and of the Ranking Minority Member. It took me 3.2 minutes to read, out loud.
jeffreyw
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: And fringe on the flag is right out.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Roger Moore: But it seems that Cole must be the one who operates it and I think it’s a a farmer’s field along with the Subaru with the mustard in the glove compartment.
mrmoshpotato
@jeffreyw: What about flair?
Cheryl Rofer
LOL – “This approach builds on…the precedent set by Republicans…”
Pre-empting one point of Republican bitching anyway.
JPL
@Elizabelle: Oh Happy Days! I so miss his snark.
his/her snark. Gotta say I was watching for posts under his campaign name, but didn’t recognize any.
debbie
@dmsilev:
I recall this is how they conducted the Watergate hearings.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
BOOM!
Calouste
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: If these people were into physics instead of law, they would be “inventing” perpetual motion machines and proving that the earth is flat. And of course, some of them do.
HalfAssedHomesteader
By committing the crimes underlying entire impeachment inquiry the president has already fully participated in the proceedings, IMHO.
Roger Moore
@Cheryl Rofer:
Like the Republicans will let facts and evidence prevent them from bitching.
Cheryl Rofer
@Roger Moore: I know, but it’s always worth a try.
J R in WV
Haven’t read the whole bunch of comments, but want to stick my oar in soonest… Where does the need for the President to participate in the process arise? Does a mobster get to intervene in Grand Jury activity preparing to indict said mobster for racketeering?
Nope!
Is Impeachment more like a Grand Jury than any other legal proceeding in our justice system?
Yes, it is!!
Shouldn’t president drumpf become involved when the Articles of Impeachment have been passed to the Senate? Sure, but why before that?
We already know that Trump lies like a rug, flatly and all the time! I’m good with allowing Trump to appear before the Judiciary Committee, to testify even without taking questions from the Staff Counsel. But otherwise, he should sit down and shut up until it’s his turn to defend himself before the Senate sitting as a jury.
Just my $0.02 on procedure going forward. If that’s historically how it has always been done, I guess then that’s how it should be done now. I didn’t recall Nixon’s lawyers being involved in House impeachment activities at the time of Watergate… but I was younger and had lots of things going on that were more important to a 20s something guy… College classes and hobbies, like hiking and whitewater and caving and photography and friends… But still. He’s a cheap crook who lies by reflex. Why give him additional opportunities to lie? I guess if he’s as obvious a liar in House hearings, it won’t do him any good at all. Perhaps he will be unwilling to even appear before a bunch of Demonrats trying to do him in…
Litlebritdifrnt
OT Since Mum died I am looking for somewhere to live. Seen a couple nice places so far but this place is making me salivate
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-85903430.html
Also going to see this place tomorrow which has the votes of all of my family because it is literally around the corner from my Big Sis and her daughters.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-75040672.html
BR
@J R in WV:
I think the idea is carrot/stick — if he wants to participate, he can’t obstruct. If he obstructs, he can’t participate.
Sm*t Cl*de
@Calouste:
The “One People’s Public Trust” was a SovCit spin-off involving free energy (engines running on water!) and Free Money (the banks hold $millions in your name, you just have to ask for it!).
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/One_People%27s_Public_Trust
Roger Moore
@Cheryl Rofer:
I realize, it’s an attempt to convince the media that the Democrats are playing fair so they’ll treat the Republican process complaints with appropriate scorn.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@J R in WV: Nixon’s lawyers had the same role in the House impeachment proceedings.
snoey
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Video went viral a few years ago of somebody trying that line – judge concluded with “and if you see any of those other John Doe’s tell them they’re not getting out of jail either”
JPL
George Papadopoulos filed for to run for Katie Hill’s seat because why not.
Leto
@Litlebritdifrnt: I’m sorry for your loss. Of the two, I know your family likes #2, but man, #1 is spectacular! The views are amazing, the kitchen is very nice, and overall the property is just top notch. Let us know which one you choose!
debbie
@Leto:
Agreed. #1, if only for the view.
trollhattan
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Location, location, location! Living by the ocean could be a lot of fun.
On the second I zoomed out the map to discover “Happy Mount Park” and my 18YO self immediately appeared with a basket of jokes.
Elizabelle
@Litlebritdifrnt: They’re both wonderful, but I like the first one better because (1) waterfront and (2) and kitchen looks lovely, almost nautical and (3) less expensive and (4) water, water, water.
Good luck to you.
MisterForkbeard
@Litlebritdifrnt: Oh damn. Now I want to move to that first house.
In Britain. Where I probably can’t move. Sigh.
Leto
@debbie: Right? The rest of the house is very nice, but that view is ah-mah-zing!
debbie
@Leto:
It’s also much brighter than the other place.
HalfAssedHomesteader
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: In fairness to Perry, he could be in the room and still not be in the room.
Leto
@debbie: That’s true. All that light is needed in the coming months, for many reasons.
TS (the original)
@Litlebritdifrnt: Wow – that is a kitchen one rarely seen in a UK flat – and the rest of the first one looks fab – is it too far from the family?
Avalune
@TS (the original): Wait, there is such a thing as living too far from family? I disagree. I could dig a hole on the other side of the earth and it wouldn’t be far enough from Leto’s family. Bah dum dum tissssh
Sorry about your situation though, lilbrit. Condolences.
HumboldtBlue
@Litlebritdifrnt:
If family is primary I go with family.
If, however, if it ain’t, I’m going shrimping.
Procopius
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: When Perry first arrived at the Department of Energy he showed that he had no idea what they did. Probably he thought the office would be a great opportunity for graft, especially from the oil companies.