Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans in disarray!

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Come on, man.

A Senator Walker would be an insult to the state and the nation.

Let there be snark.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Friday Evening Open Thread: Mock the Rich

Friday Evening Open Thread: Mock the Rich

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If it turns out Bloomberg actually announces a run — I still think he’s doing his patented free-polling-via-earned-media quadrennial stunt — at least he’ll have a pretty fair idea of what he’s got to look forward to…

Reader Interactions

154Comments

  1. 1.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    Charge Bill Gates a 1% wealth tax and then make him download wealth tax updates every time he turns on his computer. Ya know, Windows-style.

    My Win10 machine doesn’t require updates every time I turn it on,

  3. 3.

    laura

    Stop me if you’ve heard this one before – Confiscatory tax rates to wring the idle capital out of the soft hand of the billionaire class -leaving behind what anyone would objectively consider wealth, and put it to use for social goods and direct jobs. Big, juicy government careers with pensions and such like.
    Or the growing ranks of petulant wealthy entitled idgits will be the end of us.

  6. 6.

    trollhattan

    If Leon Cooperman and Bloomberg each gets one vote, that’s two votes for Bloomberg! (But, just in the state where each resides). Feel the Bloomentum.

  7. 7.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    Have you noticed how Wall Street and the billyonaires have never been frightened of Wilmer.

  8. 8.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    Ironically Bloomberg is running on a wealth tax of 1%. Which isn’t that different than Warren’s 2% wealth tax.

  9. 9.

    kindness

    Asking us to feel sorry for someone who has paid over $10B in taxes kinda misses the point that he kept way way more than that.

  12. 12.

    NotMax

    Good a place as any to remind anyone using it that support for Windows 7 is still scheduled to end on January 14, 2020. More info here and here.

    No, your computer running Win 7 won’t suddenly become a brick at that time. It will, however, become more and more vulnerable as time passes to intrusion by outside sources/entities.

  15. 15.

    JPL

    This is good news for president bone spurs. The more time we spend talking about the wealth tax, the less we speak about his character and policies.

  19. 19.

    theturtlemoves

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: That’s because they are running in the background without telling you. Only time you get any notice is during the semi-annual gigantic updates. So, Gates should get quiet tax updates that he can’t turn off overnight on a regular basis.

  20. 20.

    jl

    I hope likely voters humiliate this wizened arrogant ass like they did Schultz, and as Democratic primary voters did the likes of Moulton, to dissuade him from running third party or independent in the general.

  21. 21.

    trollhattan

    What’s the play here?

    US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has warned of the dangers posed by Russia and China, and called on Nato to grow and confront “the challenges of today”.

    On a visit to Berlin, Mr Pompeo said methods used by China to suppress its own people would be “horrifyingly familiar” to East Germans. And he accused Russia of invading its neighbours and crushing dissent. He laughed off comments from French President Emmanuel Macron, who said recently that Nato was “brain dead”.

    But Mr Pompeo told reporters: “Seventy years on… it needs to grow and change. It needs to confront the realities of today and the challenges of today.

    “If nations believe that they can get the security benefit without providing Nato the resources that it needs, if they don’t live up to their commitments, there is a risk that Nato could become ineffective or obsolete.” US President Donald Trump has frequently accused European Nato members of failing to provide their fair share of military spending and of relying too heavily on the US for their defence.

    Nato celebrates its 70th anniversary at a summit in London next month. He was speaking in Berlin a day before the 30th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall.

    Referring to that event, Mr Pompeo said “the West – all of us – lost our way in the afterglow of that proud moment”.He said the US and its allies should “defend what was so hard-won… in 1989” and “recognise we are in a competition of values with un-free nations”.

    Un-free?

  25. 25.

    OzarkHillbilly

    If Cooperman finds Warrens 2% wealth tax so abhorrent, I wonder how he’ll feel about my “Kill the Rich” policy proposal?

  29. 29.

    trnc

    @kindness:

    Asking us to feel sorry for someone who has paid over $10B in taxes kinda misses the point that he kept way way more than that.

    And then he goes on to imply that he might be taxed $100 billion, which would require a wealth tax of 110%.

  30. 30.

    JPL

    @Baud: Rather than talk about trump running up the deficit or destroying NATO, MSM would rather talk about Warren/Bloomberg. This is good news for trump.

    file this under f,,kem

  31. 31.

    Dan B

    And how is Bloomer von Bloomingburg going to appeal to the base with his Stop and Frisk policies and his recent past as a Republican? I’m sure there are more policies but the Sounds of Whining are not as melodious as silence.

    Other ugly policies anyone?

    And there’s the RWNJ bait: NYC Jewish, sad to say, but not that sad for a multi bazillionaire who could finance multiple centrist /economically conservative Senators in swing states to keep Socialist* Liz in check but restore American moral leadership.

    * I like socialism – Scandinavian style.

  32. 32.

    the Conster

    Anyone with under $1 billion in net worth, she said, “is not paying a penny more.” Asked again how she defined middle class, she repeated the assertion. “Understand this,” she said. “This is no increase in taxes for anyone except billionaires. Period. Done.”

    Has anyone asked Warren about her comment that the middle class is everyone not making a billion? Or what has happened in the countries that have tried a wealth tax, and the likelihood of it being unconstitutional here in violation of the takings clause and with a far right SCOTUS? Hillary Clinton’s interview with Andrew Ross Sorkin also raises some interesting questions about the feasibility of implementing it. I’m all for doing what we can to wrest billions from billionaires, but I’m also wary of populists blowing smoke up my ass.

    ETA: Bloomberg, Steyer and all the other overinflated egos of the billionaire class can go fuck themselves.

  34. 34.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: he made similar noises in ’16 as Bernie caught fire, saying he might run as an indy if BS got the nomination. I do find it kind the timing kind of puzzling, that he jumped after her health care plan came out, not the wealth tax

  35. 35.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Chuck Todd has been babbling about Bloomberg for two days now. He seems to think the guy’s a viable candidate. That seems ridiculous to me. Half the country has no idea who he is.

  36. 36.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    @Baud: he said Dump was a danger to the nation and the current candidates aren’t positioned to defeat him.

  37. 37.

    Trish Smith

    @trollhattan: white male – never caused them a moments stress in all his years in congress. But are they scared of women who might just do what they say they will do.

  38. 38.

    burnspbesq

    Cooperman was my late sister’s first boss out of undergrad. He doesn’t appear to have changed much in the intervening 41 years.

  39. 39.

    jl

    @Baud:

    ” Anyone can propose a wealth tax. In the Baud! administration, billionaires will be drug tested. ”

    Baud 2020 is going to give billionaires more money if they test positive?

  43. 43.

    trnc

    My brilliant response to one of Baud’s comments has been eaten. Twice.

    DAMN YOU, BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!

  45. 45.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: kinda like Howard Schultz was a centrist, if your entire political view runs from one end of the Morning Joseph set to the other. They’re all basically country club Republicans, they’re embarrassed by trump and the vulgar plebs he panders to, and they were embarrassed by those plebs before trump rode down the escalator, they quietly despise all that strange religiosity and nativism, but we’vegottogetseriousaboutentitlementsinthiscountry –that portmanteau best heard in Tom Brokaw’s smug drawl. Tom Brokaw is everything Chuck Todd wants to be when he grows up.

  48. 48.

    Dan B

    @OzarkHillbilly: May I remind you that the PC (correct phrase, for you peons!) is “Eat the Rich”.

    But it might be kinder gentler if they were not alive through the meal.

  49. 49.

    chris

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Toad was on while I was cooking. He appeared to get a distinct tingle up both legs every time he said “52 billion dollars.” He said it several times. Fuckem…

    And then… and then Ari had Peggy Noonan on. …with a rusty farm implement!

  53. 53.

    jl

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch:

    ” he said Dump was a danger to the nation and the current candidates aren’t positioned to defeat him. ”
    Like the rest of us, he’s seen the crop of candidates for months now, so I suspect he’s not entirely straightforward.
    Success of Warren campaign competing with Biden for the nomination is something new though. And when Sanders drops out, if even half his support go to Warren, which is likely, then progressive faction is poised to win.

    Bloomberg is worried about his money. Biden campaign isn’t going that bad, and he is competitive in the other three early states, as well as dominating in SC. Fact is even though Biden is the goofy uncle running on outdated centrist policies to much of Democratic primary voting base, even he is more progressive than Bloomberg on economics, And I can see greedy billionaires being worried about Biden being pushed to left on economics, since total of candidates more progressive than Biden has more support.

    Most billionaires are greedy assholes, that’s how they got to be billionaires. Anything can be sacrificed for their wallets and power.

  56. 56.

    Amir Khalid

    Whatever happened to bajillionaires like Bill Gates’ friend Warren Buffet, who famously pointed out that his secretary’s income was effectively taxed at a higher rate than his?

    Oh wait, that was just Warren.

  58. 58.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @chris:

    And then… and then Ari had Peggy Noonan on. …with a rusty farm implement!

    I turned that on with my headphones as I was walking home. I haven’t heard/seen her in a while and it took me a couple of minutes to place that voice and those bizarrely affected speech patterns. Since I didn’t have video I couldn’t see the constipated moues I”m sure she was making as she took…. four times as much time as… she needed… to make her…. extremely banal and tendentious…. points. I assume she thinks that makes her sound thoughtful.

    I can’t quite remember if it was she was hired during MSNBC’s initial attempt to win back conservatives when they fired a whole bunch of people (including Ronan Farrow) and brought in a few conservatives (including Hew Hewitt), or in the somewhat later hiring of a bunch of never trumpers. They do seem to use her sparingly, thank god. I sometimes see/hear Bill Kristol and have to remember what an asshole he’s been for thirty years. I never have to remind myself of that with the Magic Dolphin Lady. I can’t imagine she’s good TV, but I would have said that about the apprentice and Dancing With the Has-Beens

  59. 59.

    theturtlemoves

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Yeah, Patch Tuesdays. You get Windows Defender updates daily, though, or I hope you do if you enjoy not having viruses. You may also get some updates outside the Patch Tuesday cycle if they are deemed critical. Unless you managed to get on some slower corporate ring. Technicalities aside, I was disappointed in Gates on this one, although it is of a piece with his disastrously stupid views on education policy.

  60. 60.

    Dan B

    Will Bloomberg’s super excellent research discover that a New Yawk city elite is not a viable candidate, even with the bestest media / social media campaign? They may find that the “[email protected]” candidate is a straight white male from Pittsburgh/Cleveland/Atlanta who is charismatic, strong on the military, veteran, against too much taxation, has a clean record on minorities, is respectful to women, has executive experience at the state level, or has been a successful Senator, etc. etc. In other words, a unicorn.

    And Jay Inslee is a close fit but… look hiw he fared. I’m talkin to you Mike!

  62. 62.

    MomSense

    I miss my prisoner clients now that I deal with 1%er problems. I’m getting a rep as a hard ass so that is something. Amazing what the tilt of the head combine with a raised eyebrow can do.

    I wish I were more enthusiastic about a wealth tax, but it has been ineffective when used in other countries because the Uber rich can hire attorneys to circumvent it. It’s a gimmick.

    Unfortunately I think Warren promotes plans that sound good to the white activist contingent (hello confirmatory bias) but they don’t actually work well IRL.

  66. 66.

    Martin

    @the Conster: It’s challenging but hard to envision it being unconstitutional. Both property and estate taxes are wealth taxes and they’ve been around for ages.

    The takings clause has been reviewed by USSC several times, and the finding was always that taxation was fine, seizure was not. That is, you couldn’t deprive a person of their welfare by taking. I’d like to see the billionaire argue that they’re now impoverished because they lost that 2%.

    The challenge is tax sheltering. In order to really implement a wealth tax, you need to reform taxation and sheltering laws, and states like Delaware are as bad as your sterotypical carribean island. You can’t tax what you can’t find.

  67. 67.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @MomSense: as unachievable over-promises go, I think a wealth tax is at least good politics

    I do take some pleasure in the fact that Bloomberg is, in so many ways, a thorn in trump’s ass. Bloomberg and Buffet are often cited as the people trump compared himself to, resentfully, the kind the media call to make sage pronouncements on the economy. They weren’t calling him. So he ran for fucking president.

  69. 69.

    mrmoshpotato

    @trnc:

    My brilliant response to one of Baud’s comments has been eaten. Twice.

    More tasty than brilliant apparently.

  71. 71.

    Amir Khalid

    Site features seem to be disappearing over some sort of event horizon. Is this the new site II’m seeing, or is it just the disintegrating old one?

  72. 72.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @chris: from last week

    Richard M. Nixon @ dick_nixon
    Thank God the Series is on tonight because I just saw Matthews interviewing Steyer and I remembered Presley shot the television.

    I watch entirely too much MSNBC. My addiction is not so strong as to make me watch Chuck Todd or Chris Matthews

  74. 74.

    chris

    OMFG, you guys! It’s moving toward self-awareness!

    …that Trump was defined to voters nationally by The Apprentice, a fact we in NY missed. Maggie H.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    @Martin:

    If it’s unconstitutional, it’s because the Supreme Court will call it a direct tax, which is a unique restriction on the federal government.

  76. 76.

    MomSense

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t know. I’m kind of sick of the typical promises politicians make. It’s a stupid way to go about taxation because it doesn’t deal with tax shelters or incentives to move money offshore.

    I realize I’m one of the few here who find her problematic – that’s as kind as I can be about it.

  78. 78.

    Martin

    This is fine.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday he was considering attending Russia’s May 9 Victory Day commemorative events after President Vladimir Putin extended an invitation.

  79. 79.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Martin:

    It’s challenging but hard to envision it being unconstitutional. Both property and estate taxes are wealth taxes and they’ve been around for ages.

    Property taxes are local, not federal and Congress is constrained by Article I on how it taxes. The Estate tax is a federal tax on income from an estate to the beneficiaries of the estate, allowed under the 16th Amendment. A wealth tax would probably not be constitutional.

  80. 80.

    chris

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Haha, glad I have no guns.

    MSNBC goes off at the end of Ari, no Matthews for me. Feels like he’s spitting on me. Chuck is sometimes OK, other times it’s worth watching his guests look on in horror.

  83. 83.

    germy

    RICH, adj. Holding in trust and subject to an accounting the property of the indolent, the incompetent, the unthrifty, the envious and the luckless. That is the view that prevails in the underworld, where the Brotherhood of Man finds its most logical development and candid advocacy. To denizens of the midworld the word means good and wise.

    Ambrose Bierce, Devil’s Dictionary

  86. 86.

    theturtlemoves

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I am one in my current life. I find myself unfortunately resigned to the “everything is a service” model now. It’s all the cloud now, man. Connected by a series of tubes.

  87. 87.

    Mary G

    Fiona Hill has no fucks left to give:

    Fiona Hill told lawmakers during her deposition that she received "death threats, calls at my home" and people showing up "hammering" at her front door ahead of her Hill appearance. "Now, I'm not easily intimidated, but that made me mad." pic.twitter.com/rNA4ktfSQj— Meredith Lee (@meredithllee) November 8, 2019

    MAGAts in general have been badly underestimating women since the day after inauguration. Shit like this is going to rebound. And if someone is killed, she’ll be a martyr like Heather Heyer.

  91. 91.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud: I’m pretty sure they can structure it in a way that the SC won’t be able to call it a “direct tax”. I mean if they don’t like a wealth tax we can just make income above $1 million subject to a 90% progressive income tax.

  96. 96.

    mrmoshpotato

    @chris: Oh shit. One day Mags is going to admit they punched Hillary ever chance they got while giving Dump a tongue bath, and the universe as we know it will collapse in on itself.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Josh Barro @ jbarro
    -The Biden erasure is the craziest thing is about the search for a moderate Stop Warren candidate. (He’s right there! Leading the polls!) But the second-craziest thing is the Klobuchar erasure. So you think Biden has lost a step. Why don’t you try to make *her* the nominee?
    -Who’s gonna run better in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and Arizona: Amy Klobuchar, or Mike Bloomberg? I’ll take my answer off the
    -If you think the three leading candidates are all badly flawed (not necessarily correct, but not a crazy view) it doesn’t mean an additional candidate is necessary. There are lots of OTHER candidates already.

    I think the short and obvious answer is the massive, massive ego of these people. They might not like trump, they’d probably be okay with President Klobuchar (so, btw, would I), but actually part with (does math quickly in a head not made for it) .5% of his personal fortune to make someone else president? That’s not a cure for a Napoleon complex!
    And I think Booker would be the more natural candidate of Bloomberg et al. I remember him weeping for the venture capitalists Obama was such a big meanie to, don’t they? And he seems to be heavily influenced on FP by his quasi-neocon senior Senator. He was I believe the only Dem who said he wouldn’t work to restore the Iran deal. You’d think all the things I don’t like about him are what would attract Wall St never-trumpers

  99. 99.

    Jay

    In other words, this is confirmation from a top NSC official under oath that the President shared classified information with the Russian representatives in that meeting, fwiw.— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) November 8, 2019

  102. 102.

    Dan B

    The other piece, or one of a multitude of pieces, that Bloomberg seems to be missing is that a media / social / “the cyber” campaign requires is enough time to reach your target audience. The Russians, homebred RWNJ “Think” Tanks, and right wing TV / radio / print have been at work for decades turning gullible and socially / economically anxious Americans into furious right wingers.

    I’m a fan of social media and media campaigns ability to move the populace but we’ve had the Powell Memorandum for how long? And the Ailes war on liberals, plus the Christianists media for how long? Bloomberg hasn’t looked at his calendar – another key component of political campaigns. He’s gonna launch an effective campaign in less than a year? It takes 6 months to get the research and allthe ducks in a row, fer ducks sake.

    Mike, take your money and put it into a candidate like Harris that could use the assistance. She’s not as soshulist as Warren.

    Sit down with Warren if she wins Iowa, places well in NH and SC. And give some to promising potential Senators in swing states. They will be centrist and constrain Warren.

    That may convince us that you are about more than proving you are the smartest savior in the USA.

    We’ve already got one of those in the White House, several in the Senate, and everywhere else. You risk coming off like another NY blowhard who has worse hair than you.

  103. 103.

    the Conster

    @Martin:

    How to value assets and liquidating assets to pay the tax on the assets you need to liquidate to pay taxes on your assets is going to be a jobs program for the millionaire professional class.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m rooting hard for A Klo.

  104. 104.

    Kent

    @Dan B: we had about 5 of those in first debates. All those Colorado guys and and the Montana guy and the Ohio guys and the young guy from California. They all caught fire so much that I can’t even remember their names.

  106. 106.

    Martin

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: ABA disagrees.

    As noted, “direct tax” under the Articles included all federal taxes because Congress could raise tax revenue only by requisitions on the states. Over time taxes that could not reasonably be apportioned among the states were expelled from being considered a direct tax, by ordinary language usage or Supreme Court decision. Consistently over time, a direct tax required ease of apportionment, and recognition that some taxes were not apportionable changed with time.

    So, for instance, income tax is not apportionable because states like CA earn considerably more than states like Mississippi. The tax burden per state/per capita is not even. CA pays more per capita. So everyone from Congress to USSC determined that it had to be removed from that system. A wealth tax would have to be removed from that system as well, because a state like MS couldn’t possibly produce the tax revenue per capita that CA does. I don’t think AK could even balance out Zuckermans contribution, let alone the other 155 billionaires in the state because AK doesn’t have anyone worth more than $300M. So, it would have to, by necessity, not be considered a direct tax.

  107. 107.

    Jay

    Hey kids. I’m in my 60s. You’ve never lived in an America where the rich paid their fair share. I have. Let me tell you what that was like:
    * We built new schools
    * We built new highways
    * We cut the poverty rate
    * We lead the world in technology
    * WE WENT TO THE FUCKING MOON – Jeff Tiedrich

  108. 108.

    Jay

    Gates Foundation Pledges $25 Billion To Eradicate Whatever Disease Drives People To Support Taxing The Rich – The Onion

  112. 112.

    Martin

    @the Conster: Actually, that could be easy. All of these guys have their estates assessed all the time for insurance and taxation purposes. That’s what Ms Martin does. In fact, that’s what’s getting Trump in trouble – telling the IRS one valuation and insurers a different one.

    One solution is to centralize that information. I don’t get to tell my county assessor what my house is worth. But if I were a billionaire I would get to. Eliminate that variation. What you tell the IRS and your insurer and your bank and anyone else would be the same amount. Assets can still be misrepresented, but a lot of parties would be watching and some would be hurt by a fraudulent valuation, and would likely report it. Yeah, there are some annoying tax implications. If I have to liquidate $x in stock to pay my wealth tax, do I also pay cap gains on that asset? Double taxation like that is generally not okay. Would CA residents get a waiver on the federal cap gains but still have to pay the state cap gains? (I’ll note, CA isn’t so busted that they couldn’t revise the state tax system in time to fix these things at the state level)

  113. 113.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Seriously. Steyer, Schultz and Bloomberg could pool their funds and organize a hostile takeover and just shut that whole damn thing down

    If Bloomberg really wanted to help America, he would buy Fox News and fire all the hosts.— Sergio (@siano4progress) November 9, 2019

  114. 114.

    Baud

    @Martin:

    You’re never going to get private companies and banks to accept the amount stated for tax purposes. They don’t do that for property taxes, and that’s usually just real estate.

  115. 115.

    Roger Moore

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    How cute-He really thinks the invitation will still be open in May. Or he’ll still be the President

    I don’t know. Impeachment could take some time. May might be just about the right time for him to be traveling to a country without an extradition treaty.

  116. 116.

    Dan B

    @Kent: Hickenlooper and Bennet. That’s as far as I get with the 5 vanished candidates who were not coastal or [email protected] But your flaw is I listed chatismatic as an essential quantity for a genu-wine Unicorn. My suggestion Jay Inslee and others’ suggestions of Klobuchar are not high on charisma, although Jay could easily be coached with some speech lessons. He’s charismatic in person and in modest sized crowds. In WA he suffers in comparison to Ron Sims who should have gone farther. Local Dems dreaded following him on stage. If he had bern given a prime spot in a national convention he might be in the White House by now.

  117. 117.

    the Conster

    @Martin:

    Billionaires hold assets in limited partnership and limited liability company interests, in trusts, and in other intangible assets, not just personally, as you know, so valuing assets doesn’t just affect the billionaire, but every other limited partner or interest holder that’s not a billionaire which is most of us. What is the definition of a billionaire, anyway? It’s not workable.

  118. 118.

    Dev Null

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    they’d probably be okay with President Klobuchar (so, btw, would I)

    Serious question: long ago and far away – mebbe a year ago in real-time vs Trump time – Klobuchar was savaged for being a horrible manager. Or perhaps a mean, disrespectful, hateful manager. Or sumpthin’ to do with management of office staff.

    There are worse things for a person to be (unless you happen to work for said person), but still, the president of the US is necessarily a full-time manager, so my take – on the basis of that complaint alone – was that Klobuchar wasn’t necessarily the candidate to get behind.

    I haven’t heard squat about her management skillz, or lack thereof, for nearly ever.

    Was the complaint shown to be unfair / undeserved / sour grapes or something similar?

    Or is there some other reason not to worry about this?

  120. 120.

    Roger Moore

    @Martin:
    One classic option for preventing rich people from undervaluing their property is to allow the government to buy it at the price (or slightly above the price) they value it at. This is just an extension of eminent domain, with the basic principle being that the owner has no right to complain about the price the government is offering if it’s the value he’s assigned to the property in question.

    And yes, there might have to be some tricks to keep people from getting screwed by double taxation if they have to sell assets to meet their tax obligations. One option would be to let them pay directly in stocks or bonds. We don’t have to argue about exactly how much they’re worth or about taxes on selling them; you just fork over 2% of your holdings and we’re good to go. That doesn’t work for real estate, of course.

  121. 121.

    the Conster

    @Dev Null:

    Bernie Sanders has a documented history of being an asshole to everyone he works with his entire career, and ran a catch and kill operation to silence the women who were sexually harrassed and underpaid in his last campaign, yet no one seems to want to write about that, so who fucking cares?

  125. 125.

    Dan B

    @Ella in New Mexico: Fox News anchor Rachel Maddow. My honey would love Thom Hartman. Me not so much.

    Who else should take over the seats at FOX? Lewis Black for Hannity’s (former) chair? And there are a lot of possibilities for angry or sensible black lady…

  126. 126.

    Kent

    They don’t really even need to do a wealth tax. Just ordinary income tax and make capital gains taxed at the same rate as regular income. And make the business and corporate income taxes all equal to the highest personal rate tax so no evading taxes by making fake businesses. And then get rid of most of the bullshit exceptions and stuff like carried interest and break open all the hidden corporate shells for real estate and businesses. Would accomplish basically the same thing. Also get rid of the bullshit exemptions to the estate tax.

  128. 128.

    chris

    @MomSense:

    It’s a stupid way to go about taxation because it doesn’t deal with tax shelters or incentives to move money offshore.

    I’m hoping Liz has a plan for that. The new EU rules come into effect in January and she’ll be watching I’m sure.

  129. 129.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Dev Null:

    Was the complaint shown to be unfair / undeserved / sour grapes or something similar?
    Or is there some other reason not to worry about this?

    As I recall the two worst things about that, to me, were: The idea that she handed out tardy slips, or something like that? Something that did sound petty, controlling, not a way to deal with adults. And I say that as someone who gets irritated when people are five minutes late. Then there was a story that she threw a binder at a staffer. That one I’m skeptical of. I can imagine a scenario where she tossed it on a table as a way of expressing dissatisfaction, kind of a “What is this shit?” thing, and maybe it landed too close to somebody? That seems plausible to me. That whole story has kind of faded, maybe because no one was willing to be named. In any case, I don’t really find those stories bother me that much. As I think Kay says, it’s good if she’s a little bit mean.

    The story about AK eating a salad with a comb? That’s gross. Just use your fingers, fercrissake.

  130. 130.

    Dev Null

    @the Conster:

    Bernie Sanders has a documented history of being an asshole …, yet no one seems to want to write about that, so who fucking cares?

    Having worked for individuals who were merely bad managers, not assholes, my reaction is … perhaps people should care.

    To be clear: if there’s evidence that the complaints against AKlo were inaccurate, I’d be delighted to hear that that’s the case.

  131. 131.

    Kent

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: The biggest scam of all is corporations convincing Congress to lower the corporate income tax because people pay it anyway through ordinary income tax if they hold stock. That all needs to be rolled back.

    I have a brother-in-law who is an investment banker with a giant French bank. He is Chilean and jets between Santiago, Paris, and other Latin American financial capitals. He also owns a ton of Apple stock. Also some Amazon. I guarantee he doesn’t pay a cent of income tax to the US treasury. But he would if the IRS actually taxed Apple and Amazon appropriately. There are bazillions of ultra wealthy individuals and institutions around the world who own stock in US corporations. They are the ones who get off scot free when we lower or eliminate the corporate income tax like we have basically done when Amazon pays no tax .

  132. 132.

    Dev Null

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    As I think Kay says, it’s good if she’s a little bit mean.

    Could be.

    And you could be right that the stories never gained much traction because they weren’t serious indictments of AKlo as a manager (which is what I think you’re saying.)

    I don’t know, which is why I asked.

  133. 133.

    Wapiti

    @the Conster: I think that Warren is not defining the middle class here, she’s avoiding that by saying her wealth tax only affects the billionaires.

    Honestly, the US Government doesn’t define what the “middle class” is. I think we frankly should have some definition of what these terms mean, but I don’t think Warren should define it, because there is no accepted definition. Of course, people will try to trap her into defining it, just to weaken her and strengthen other candidates; she should avoid this trap.

  134. 134.

    Kent

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Klobuchar stories from a year ago have basically gone down the memory hole because AK herself has basically gone down the memory hole. No one is writing any kind of stories about here. If she was actually in a neck and neck primary or general election fight with wall to wall coverage then it would all start to come out again.

    As for Sanders. He seems to skate just like Trump did in 2015 because no one really seems to think he is actually a serious candidate who is going to win. At least not in the press. I’m not sure what they think but I don’t think there are any serious political reporters who treat Sanders like he is actually going to win the nomination.

  136. 136.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Dev Null:

    because they weren’t serious indictments of AKlo as a manager (which is what I think you’re saying.)

    I guess so– Misdemeanors, not felonies. And the evidence is pretty thin.

  137. 137.

    different-church-lady

    Corporations are people. Except when it comes to taxes. And liability. And laws. And other stuff…

  138. 138.

    Kent

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Yes, there are trillions to be had by simply tightening up the existing tax code and putting corporate and personal income taxes back up to reasonable Reagan-era rates. No need to create some brand new tax and all the endless headache that would accompany it.

    We can even do income tax changes through reconciliation with just 50 votes. I mean WTF, if they can lower taxes with 50 votes we can raise them with 50 votes.

  139. 139.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kent: could be, I’m a lousy prognosticator of what people will care about

    after all this time, I still can’t quite grok the way the lumpenmittel just kind of shrugged about Russian interference, and Access Hollywood, and his wife accusing him of rape, and kids in cages, and…

  140. 140.

    the Conster

    @Wapiti:

    The context was that she’s saying her $52 TRILLION Medicare for All bill will be paid without raising taxes on the middle class, because she’s being disingenuous IMO.

  142. 142.

    Immanentize

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    That would be constitutional, a wealth tax would not.

    Aside from photographer of the vast, could you please, as constitutional expert and scholr, explain this ever so certain declaration?

  148. 148.

    Jamie

    @Kent:

    Just ordinary income tax and make capital gains taxed at the same rate as regular income.

    YES PLEASE. I’ve been saying this for years. The cap gains rate is such a scam.

  149. 149.

    Butter Emails

    @the Conster:
    $52 TRILLION give or take a couple TRILLION is what Americans are anticipated to spend on Health Care over the next 10 years, whether we have single payer, an enhanced public option or get sick and die care. The whole “raise taxes” is a BS framing trying to convince everyone in the middle class that they’ll end up with smaller paychecks. Right now, there’s a big line item on every one of my paychecks that says “employee healthcare contribution” and an even bigger one that shows my employer’s contribution. Given my income level, what most like happens is that if we move to single payer that becomes a tax with no actual impact on take home pay. See instead of calling it a premium, it gets called a tax. Because Warren’s funding is progressive, the actual impact on take home pay for the middle class and below should be favorable, meaning what gets taken out of their paychecks and their pockets will be less than what it is under the current system.

  151. 151.

    lollipopguild

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: $100,000.00 a year would make you upper class in some places and middle class in some places and in San Francisco you would be eligible for food stamps.

  152. 152.

    Bobby Thomson

    $100 billion is two percent of $5 trillion. Even if you’re generous and say $50 billion of that is the lump sum equivalent of income tax for the rest of his life (which wouldn’t even come close to that with the time value of money), he’d have to have $2.5 trillion in taxable wealth to pay 100 billion on a 2% tax, in which case cry me a fuckin’ river.

    Dishonest propaganda from a plutocrat? Who’d a thunk it.

  153. 153.

    Jay

    @the Conster:

    Nope, more ReThug talking points. Pure bullshit.

    The US AG calculates that over the next 10 years, the US will spend $52 trillion on healthcare and insurance.

    One way or another.

    Warren’s plan, Americans get $52 trillion in healthcare.

    The status quo way, Corporations cream off $11 trillion in profit, and some Americans get some level of healthcare. Some will still have to go bankrupt. Many will either not get any healthcare, or just die quietly. Go Fund Me will still be profitable. YMMV.

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