Since it looks like time for another thread, here are a few things I noticed watching a good part of the hearings today.
First, is there an Occam’s Razor for goobers? Maybe Gomer’s Butter Knife? Because the Republican Committee Counsel is a real fucking goober, asking pointless questions and running himself into corners like a haywire Roomba. So, either he’s an idiot, or he was on some kind of leash. I think Gomer’s Butter Knife would dictate that the answer is both: he’s not that smart (because a smart person wouldn’t want the job) and morons like Nunez have him on a leash.
Second, “moderate” Elise Stefanik, from my great state (NY-21), was definitely walking the tightrope. First, she participated in a dumb fucking stunt that anyone with a brain could tell was for the consumption of Fox News:
Then, she went out of her way to laud Yovanovich with praise, and finished her precious time by reading some horseshit about the whistle blower into the record. Look, I’m loyal but reasonable! Don’t primary me!
Stefanik has been elected three times in a R+4 district by at least 10 point margins. It’s a tough district for Democrats: it has Fort Drum and the Adirondacks, which are both fairly conservative places, yet it has had a Democrat (Bill Owens) get elected there three times (first in a special when Obama appointed John McHugh to be Secretary of the Army, then twice in the general). I don’t think her 2020 race will be as easy as her last three.
What are your thoughts?
Update: Here’s a link to donate to Tedra Cobb, Stefanik’s Democratic opponent in NY-21.
Patricia Kayden
henrythefifth
I just donated to Tedra Cobb. Yes, this was a stunt that was blatantly lined up. It’s so obnoxious. Those are my thoughts.
Betty Cracker
I hope the Dems are grooming someone good to knock Stefanik out of that seat. You’re probably right that her Jekyll and Hyde shtick was an attempt to appear both loyal to a lawless lunatic and reasonable at the same time, but I initially read it as part of a team cleanup of Trump’s awful attempt at witness tampering. I haven’t seen a lot of the hearing, but it seemed like a lot of Republicans became solicitous of Yovanovitch after the break.
MattF
FWIW, Jen Rubin has been merciless towards Stefanik.
Ruckus
The entire republican party has jumped off the top floor of trump tower and are accelerating towards the ground.
That’s about it in a nutshell.
They invested everything in this losing dipshit and they have no idea what else to do but thrash about like children with their tongues stuck to the wall plug. He was their savior, their shinning light, their rich daddy. It’s all a scam. Only thing is that they are the rubes who swallowed the con.
How it will work out is anyone’s guess, but it’s not looking good for the wrong side of the aisle at the moment.
Eric NNY
I live in NY-21. We’re R+4 and frankly most R’s here aren’t all that wingnutty. Her decision to carry Trump’s water in these impeachment hearings baffles me. She’s not been afraid to oppose (gently) Trump’s policies in the past. She’s been more toward the moderate R side thus far. Had she continued to stay moderate I think she would have won re-election safely (still think she will). I’m not seeing the strategic benefit of her going batshit crazy here. She may lose a couple points because of this. Tedra Cobb isn’t the greatest, but damn I wish she’d take Elise out.
Also, I’m horrified that Evan Hurst from Wonkette is now calling her the Louie Gohmert of the Intelligence committee. So proud NY-21…..
Marcopolo
According to reporting at Talking Points Memo we were only about 48 hours away from Zelenskyy doing his CNN interview announcing the Biden investigation when the shit hit the fan w/ the WB report. Yep, that close to all the news being all about Biden/ /Burismagate:
talkingpointsmemo.com/news/zelensky-nearly-announced-the-investigations-trump-wanted-then-everything…
Fareed Zakaria says he was all set to do the interview.
That’s a close shave.
Patricia Kayden
Baud
@Marcopolo: The whole thing is so weird because they seem to have confidence than we do that Biden will be the nominee.
hueyplong
My thought about Stefanik is that I’m thrilled Stone was convicted on all counts.
Gin & Tonic
@Marcopolo: What the fuck does Zakaria know?
Marcopolo
@henrythefifth: It might just be me but I’d love it if folks posted a contribution link when they announce they’ve given to a worthy candidate. I’m currently in a state of mind (which I suspect will carry through next Nov.) where throwing $5 or $10 to a D trying to flip a congressional seat is therapeutic.
clay
@Baud: Or they were trying to kneecap him before he was nominated, figuring they could beat the others easier?
Patricia Kayden
Schiff is fantastic. Knocking his closing statements out of the park.
[Individual 1] mistermix
@Eric NNY: Unfortunately what we saw around here (in the old NY-29) is that it takes an extraordinary Democrat to beat a less-than-ordinary Republican.
Roger Moore
@Eric NNY:
This. It isn’t as if she had to choose between helping the Democrats and being a total wingnut. If she couldn’t think of a non-crazy line of questioning, she could yield her time to another Republican who wanted to go crazy. That would be a reasonable compromise of not doing anything crazy herself while also not turning on her party.
lollipopguild
@Baud: They started this back when Biden was the front runner and in trumpworld Biden(white,male) is seen as the only rightful person to run against trump.
Kent
I’m guessing it’s just Trump who feels that way. He probably sees Biden as the most Trump-like of the field and so therefore, the greatest threat. I doubt the entire GOP establishment is necessarily on board with that assessment but then Trump never seems to listen to anyone else. At least not anyone else who isn’t speaking to him via Fox News.
Roger Moore
@Marcopolo:
It’s not obvious to me that things would have been that much better for Trump if he had managed to get Zelenskyy to do the CNN interview. Imagine if he had done it and then it came out that it was in response to Trump bribing him. In that case, the Republicans couldn’t even turn to the “well, attempted bribery isn’t a crime” defense. The bribery- he goes on TV to announce the investigation and the funds are immediately released- would be even more obvious.
narya
I like the characterization of a “haywire Roomba.” I’ve been following a couple of recaps (Hoarse and Wonkette) and . . . DAYumm, they really do not have a plan on this.
Marcopolo
@Baud: Well, at the time this was all happening (remember this has been going on for a while) thinking Biden would be the nominee was the best bet.
[Individual 1] mistermix
@Marcopolo: I just posted a link, go ahead and get some therapy.
Wapiti
@Marcopolo: with a shave that close… Bolton being the WB might not surprise me.
hueyplong
Let’s say an entity you recognize as a deity appeared before you and said you could choose between (1) a guarantee of Biden beating the GOP candidate in 2020 or (2) rolling the dice on the current timeline.
As of today I’d choose (1) despite absolutely not wanting Biden to get the nomination.
Look forward to a tipping point when I’d go with (2).
trollhattan
Whoever Ryan Saavedra is, he’s under the impression there is an organization named “the Democrat Party.” Can somebody please correct “RealSaavedra” on the RealName Democratic Party? Thanks.
takebakawashi
Roger Moore
@narya:
I think they do have a plan. There are two parts:
I’m not sure this is a good plan, but it clearly is a plan.
Patricia Kayden
Hopefully, Holmes will testify in public.
Matt McIrvin
The centrists at 538 thought Stefanik came off well.
trollhattan
@Roger Moore:
Every Republican move seems like a Gish Gallop. Paired with “The French Mistake” production from “Blazing Saddles.”
[it just might work]
Marcopolo
Thanks for adding the Tedra Cobb campaign donation link to the post. Her campaign just got two, yes two, more donations. I have been watching the hearing w/ another person. :)
https://www.tedracobb.com
Immanentize
The Stephanic ploy would not have been so bad if the Republicans had more members without members, if you know what I mean.
Give it to the girl who will do it or we cut off her sweet party cash….
hells littlest angel
I almost felt sorry for the Republican lawyer. He had no way to attack the witness
I repeat: ALMOST.
Question for movie mavens out there: I never saw the movie, but weren’t the Three Amigos basically a trio of idiots?
MattF
The real problem is that all the Trump defenses made by R politicians are made in bad faith. They’re dishonest, ignore the facts and the law, and the people making the arguments don’t actually believe them. Trump’s own defense, that whatever he may or may not have done is perfectly fine, and that anyone who accuses him of anything is a weakling and a traitor is likely what he actually believes.
Marcopolo
@Wapiti: Except the WB is from the intelligence community.
The Moar You Know
Well, if we can’t flip it then let’s get a real psycho in there who doesn’t have time for this “moderate and reasonable” shit.
Steve in the ATL
It’s a been a looooong week, but I just TA’d a deal with over 9,000 brothers and sisters of [union name redacted]. What have you slackers accomplished?
I hate that I have missed all the impeachment fun, but thanks to you jackals for keeping me up to date here in between caucuses.
Love the new site too. How has no one posted Balloon Man?
Feathers
My ex is from her district. Yeah, Republican but not wingnut is my take on the place. Part of the reason is that it’s really fucking snowy up there and without effective local government keeping the roads clear everyone will die. It’s up on the Tug Hill Plateau, which means that if it is below freezing (basically all winter) and the wind is blowing off Lake Erie (same) it is snowing. When you drive around, towns don’t mark their borders with signs and a little garden, they plant the big honking wedge plows they have retired from service by the side of the road with the name of the town painted on it, in fancy script. Yes, they use railway style wedge plows on the roads.
They may still all watch Fox News, and hate the Clintons, but the we-don’t-need-no-stinkin-gubmint shit gets shut down real fast. And, yeah, they are racist AF. My ex, who is half-Italian, one quarter Sicilian, got beat up all the time for being black. Until he got big enough to fight back.
Steve in the ATL
@hells littlest angel: [spoiler alert] they were moronic actors who thought they were in a movie rather a truly dangerous real world situation. See also: Tropic Thunder
The Moar You Know
@clay: It’s this. Back when they were cooking up this stunt, Biden’s GE polling against Trump was in landslide territory and nobody else came close.
That hasn’t changed, BTW.
Roger Moore
@hells littlest angel:
No. They were a trio of actors who played heroes in the movies who were then asked to do the hero stuff in real life. That put them out of their depth- they couldn’t do all the stuff their characters could- but didn’t mean they were idiots.
Roger Moore
@The Moar You Know:
Yes, it has. Biden still does a bit better against Trump than the other Democratic hopefuls, but they’ve closed the gap. Nate Silver helpfully pointed out that the big difference was name recognition. You could successfully figure out how a Democratic candidate would do against Trump just by looking at their name recognition. People who didn’t recognize the candidate were less likely to pick them over Trump. As the rest of the field has closed the name recognition gap with Biden, they’ve also closed the gap in their polling vs. Trump.
Patricia Kayden
Steeplejack (phone)
Elise Stefanik:
I'll be Frank
@hells littlest angel: actors confused by rubes as the real thing get dragged into the real thing by said rubes. Cluelessness is a key characteristic for everyone involved. Plot recently reused in Galaxy Quest.
germy
Mike S (Now with a Democratic Congressperson!)
@Baud: Because in the Rethuglican/RWNJ mind the old white man (who isn’t a socialist!) deserves and will obviously get the nomination. It’s always happened in the past.*
*not intended as a factual statment.
Cheryl Rofer
hells littlest angel
@Roger Moore: Thanks. But playing a non-idiot must have been a stretch for Steve Martin.
germy
I’ve despised Elise for years.
Nice to see her go from local to country-wide loathing.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Steeplejack (phone):
Fuck you, fucked-up comment editor.
Marcopolo
@Cheryl Rofer: Um, maybe not? Honestly, I tried to do this this morning & got a big assed “blocked!” reply on my screen.
germy
The New Comment Editor has gained sentience, and is now attacking commenters and front-pagers.
spudgun
@Patricia Kayden: And Yovanovitch got a standing ovation as she left, while the rethugs whined about “deserving” to respond to Schiff’s closing.
There’s your “pizzazz”, media mothereffers…
Steeplejack (phone)
@germy:
Get a grip on your reply-fu. If you don’t get the Reply @person, press X to get out of the comment, then press Reply again. That will put you back in the comment editor with the @Person.
Immanentize
@Patricia Kayden: does anyone else get the impression that maybe Sondland had Trump on speaker phone during that conversation in Kyiv. You know, just to impress the lackies? Both witnesses that we have heard from said they “overheard Trump tell Sondland.” Now we know Trump is a shouter, but my scenario seems as likely.
Cheryl Rofer
@Marcopolo: I think the “blocked” thing has been removed. Still not sure about some of what we have to do to post tweets.
germy
@Steeplejack (phone):
.
Marcopolo
@Marcopolo: That was so odd. When I posted my initial reply all I was seeing in Cheryl’s post was a bunch of cut & paste link text. By the time my reply posted, the text had magically transmogrified into the actual link. Guess that’s the FPrr benefit.
Immanentize
@Steve in the ATL: I put up Alejandro Escovedo’s Teenage Luggage before. But if you are going with the Egyptians, why not the Yip Yip Song?
JPL
@Immanentize: It’s certainly possible, but no harm. Since he was on a cell the Russians were listening anyways. just sayin
germy
That should please Chuck Todd. Theatuh!
Cheryl Rofer
@Marcopolo: I tried to post the tweet one way, got code rather than tweet, deleted the comment, tried another way, which worked.
Steeplejack (phone)
@germy:
There you go, bruh!
germy
A humorist over at LGM said that Richard Nixon will finally become a prison tattoo.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
If we would start calling it the Democrat party they would immediately start using Democratic. They use Democrat because it pisses off some people. They are 5-6 yrs old. Their development level will never reach adult because that would be looking forward and their only view is rear view mirror.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Cheryl Rofer:
You have to post tweets in Text mode, and I always remove the “script” snippet at the end.
Immanentize
On an unsecured cell phone in a restaurant! These Maroons.
This is a part people have discussed but is always worth repeating — You know who has actual recordings of Trump’s bribery attempts and other crimes? Everyone, that’s who.
Gin & Tonic
@Immanentize: I’m curious which restaurant they were in. Kyiv is like DC – you go to a “name” restaurant and there are guaranteed to be other people there who know who you are and are very interested in what you’re saying, even if *you* don’t know who *they* are.
Gin & Tonic
@germy: That’s deep, man.
Marcopolo
@Cheryl Rofer: Although it is quite possible that Steeple already tried to explain this to me (apparently it did not take), would you explain the second method you used since this morning I actually did wind up with the first result you got & I did not figure out how to fix it.
Thank you and I really really will try to absorb this knowledge.
Mary G
Stefanik isn’t very good at the grandstanding. Her imitation of honest outrage is terrible and you can tell she knows she’s spewing bullshit.
And like spudgun said above, the clapping and cheers for the ambassador at the end were TV ready. People started lining up for the public spectator seats at 1 a.m.
germy
Who is the next witness for public hearings?
Bolton? Rudy?
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: I really must visit one day. Perhaps you (or your son) could show me around? I will buy dinner at one of those interesting restaurants for you and him.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Marcopolo:
See mine at #67.
Cheryl Rofer
@Steeplejack (phone): I knew that, but WaterGirl gave the FPers a heads-up this morning that sounded like something had changed.
ETA: I think that what changed was that the BLOCKED page no longer appears if you do it wrong.
Shana
My suspicion is that she was pressed into it because she’s a woman.
trollhattan
Every Democrat: JAZZHANDS!
trollhattan
@Immanentize:
With the candlestick.
Gin & Tonic
@Immanentize: Funny, he just sent me a pic of some fresh persimmons from Azerbaijan that he picked up at the market today. Bet you can’t find those at the Market Basket.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Shana:
The only Republican woman on the committee.
Immanentize
@Gin & Tonic: Mmmmm. Nope, not at Market Basket. Or Whole Foods even. Although at H Mart you can get some seriously weird stuff.
Chief Oshkosh
@trollhattan: FINALLY. We’re getting closer to mustard. In this case, Col. Mustard with a candlestick while on a cell phone in a restaurant!
Well shit, it only took several years, an impeachment, and a new blog interface, but soon the mustard will be found!
Roger Moore
@Cheryl Rofer:
This makes sense if the only goal is to acquit Trump, but that’s a narrower goal than the Republicans should be aiming for. The goal is not just to acquit Trump in the Senate but to convince swing voters that the whole thing is a Democratic witch hunt. If the swing voters think Trump is guilty and the Republicans let him off from pure partisanship, they’re going to vote for the Democrats in 2020.
Marcopolo
Testing
zhena gogolia
@Shana:
She was also the very first one to raise BS objections as Schiff was trying to start the testimony of Kent and Taylor. Totally orchestrated.
topclimber
Haven’t read thru all comments but did anyone notice that the one GOPer too dumb/despicable to not even THANK the ambassador for her testimony, much less her service, was Cow Man(ure)?
Mnemosyne
@I’ll be Frank:
To be fair, Galaxy Quest is a far superior movie, because they picked a much funnier and more specific premise that audiences were more familiar with (“Star Trek” vs old Western movies).
Marcopolo
@Marcopolo: Yay! Definitely progress, but yet still not as pretty as what Cheryl accomplished. That might be a FPer privilege.
Steve in the ATL
@Immanentize: because it’s not about a Balloon Man, which everyone was talking about earlier in the week!
Shana
@Steve in the ATL: Isn’t Balloon Man the official blog song? It should be.
Do you know “Freeze” with the line “There’s a justice in this world and I know just what it’s called. It’s called Elaine”? While pregnant with our first daughter we were looking for a name with an L in it to name her after Hubby’s father who had died the year before. Hubby argued, as a Classics student, that “El” was the same root as “L” so Elaine she was. Now, 29 years later, she’s worked on numerous campaigns and is working as a Public Defender.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Marcopolo: ? For style points, I put a couple of line feeds before the &mdash (before Josh) to set off the author.
Mike in DC
Eager/desperate to see post-first week polling on public support for removal. The highest level recorded to date was 52% in a Gallup poll. The “Nixon number”(the last public poll of support for his removal in August 74) is 58%.
I think that 55% is the fracturing point, where a handful of Rs get fidgety about continuing to gamble their party’s future on that guy.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Marcopolo:
Front-pagers get to include pictures. You’ve come as far as you can as a lowly commenter, Grasshopper. ?
pluky
@Steeplejack (phone):
where were you when I need to know this earlier?
I'll be Frank
@Mnemosyne:
no doubt, much better script writers too.
Steeplejack (phone)
@pluky:
Oh, sorry, I was in multiple other threads posting this since yesterday. My mistake! ? Welcome aboard the Reply chain train.
gratuitous
Two things: Normally, I hate change, but the new site design is very well done. Congratulations to all who worked so hard on it. Hopefully it will have better behind-the-scenes functionality for everyone. Second, the Republican counsel’s questioning of the ambassador. Allow me to quote eminent philosopher Krusty the Klown: What the hell was that?! If the golden rule for attorneys is to avoid asking questions you don’t know the answer to, whats-his-name stepped on a garden full of rakes for his entire time. When he wasn’t grandstanding, he was asking dumb questions that had nothing to do with anything. And when he wasn’t doing that, it was pretty clear that he had no idea how anything in the State Department works, and got knocked on his keister again and again.
germy
Stefanik makes Time Next 100 list
Former House speaker Paul Ryan praises North Country congresswoman
dailygazette.com/article/2019/11/14/stefanik-makes-time-next-100-list
Ruckus
@gratuitous:
That’s how you know he’s a republican. He’s unprepared for real life, he doesn’t know what day it is or even the year, how anything works – his job – his duty – the law. He’s a republican, they want the world they see when they hold their collective breaths until they pass out. IOW they want bullshit they think they see, not real life.
I see that we are only working in text now.
Steve in the ATL
@Shana: don’t know it and didn’t see it on Spotify. Who’s the artist?
Juju
I read that as Gomert’s butter knife, but Gomer works too.
JPL
@Immanentize: uhoh He listened through the ear phone speaker..Is it true that the president didn’t give an s about Ukraine..
This is good news for McCain and Hillary is going to finish off her bottle of Chardonay.
Uncle Cosmo
@Steve in the ATL: See also Galaxy Quest. (See it if you haven’t seen it – IMHO Tim Allen deserved a special Oscar for a truly devastating send-up of Shatner as Kirk.)
Shana
@Steve in the ATL: Robyn Hitchcock!
Dmbeaster
@Betty Cracker:
The plan for the hearing seemed to be cordiality toward the witness rather than snotty vitriol. They all followed the plan making it obvious. And then President Temper Tantrum blew up whatever good will may have built up by insulting her as she testified. Its tough trying to build a strategy with someone who ignores his own allies.