Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

T R E 4 5 O N

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

It’s the corruption, stupid.

This really is a full service blog.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Dear Washington Post, you are the darkness now.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

“woke” is the new caravan.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Weird. Rome has an American Pope and America has a Russian President.

Second rate reporter says what?

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

“I was told there would be no fact checking.”

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Oh God, a Debate Too!

Reader Interactions

421Comments

  5. 5.

    TaMara (HFG)

    Well since my satellite decided the light dusting of snow was too much for it tonight (I think impeachment 24/7 is the real reason) I’m watching online and also watching another episode of Mrs. Maisel because I have a free Prime month.

  8. 8.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I really like the look of an all-female panel. One or two WoC would be even better, but baby steps.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    @Kent:

     

    “Are you going to try to convince your Republican colleagues to vote for impeachment?”

    How is that informative to anything?

  22. 22.

    Marcopolo

    Steve Schmidt last see cashing large checks for giving Howard Schulz (sp) terrible advise.

    Amy is really pale (like maybe paler than Buttigieg). Bernie’s hair is kept. Only expected one of these things.

  25. 25.

    Elizabelle

    “A sociopath will beat a socialist.”

     

    Thanks for that, Betty.  Had been thinking of looking in.  No, no, no.

     

    Time for a novel.  And moar Perry Mason!

  26. 26.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    Pete says Dump should be forced to resign for illegally stealing from a charity.

     

    good.

  28. 28.

    Kent

    Biden sounds like he has cotton in his mouth.  Like he is slurring his words.   Anyone else notice?   Doesn’t look good.  He hasn’t always spoken like that.

  30. 30.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: The Dems should be able to walk and chew gum WRT impeachment and legislation to help working people. Duh. We are.

  37. 37.

    Baud

    I feel like the questions and answers in these debates haven’t really evolved since the first one.

  40. 40.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: You’re not alone in your Klobuchar curiosity — my husband likes her too, which is odd because he’s what some folks here would (falsely!) call a purity pony. (Voted for Sanders in the 2016 primary and has Warren at the top of this year’s list.) He’s impressed with her legislative record and thinks she could get shit done, go figure.

  43. 43.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    I was afraid of this.  Instead of focusing on today’s bombshells, they’re quibbling over well worn, recycled talking points.

  44. 44.

    Kathleen

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch: The main reason Harris is my top choice is because I believe she is the only candidate that really gets in her bones the existential threat Trump and the Rethuglicans pose, as Adam described brilliantly in his earlier post.

  49. 49.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    I don’t know why Kamala isn’t doing better, she clearly performs on a higher level than her competitors at these debates.

  50. 50.

    Kathleen

    @Betty Cracker: I’m impressed with her legislative record also, along with her support for improving the ACA. Plus I’m a former Minnesotan so I usually have a soft spot in my heart for the Dems from that state.

  51. 51.

    Marcopolo

    Warren supporter but the Moderators need to spread the action around. Not a huge fan of Yang & no fan at all of Gabbard but they should have been brought in by now.

  53. 53.

    tobie

    Klobuchar seems a bit nervous tonight. I’m liking Booker. Why wasn’t Tulsi asked about the impeachment proceedings? I would have liked to see that (for laughs and to remind me how odious she is).

  54. 54.

    debit

    I hate debates, and I hate the “let’s you and him fight” format.  But am I enjoying the passion I’m hearing from Warren, Harris and Booker.  It feels like everyone is trying really hard to be measured and not give up a sound bite that might blow up on them later.

     

    I still hate Bernie and his shouting.

  57. 57.

    dmsilev

    @Mary G: Part of that are the questions they’re getting, but really they should be pivoting back against Trump.

     

    Oh Christ, speaking of bad questions, here’s Gabbard.

  58. 58.

    Dan B

    @Kent:  OT but I noticed your request for info about Pete and the Tea Party speech after it was a dead thread.  The Advocate http://www.advocate.com has a very good post.  It’s about 17 posts down at the moment.  They’re summaries so easy enough to scroll through.

     

    The upshot is he expressed to the crowd that he understands their frustration with government even though he has a completely different perspective and approach.

    People responded mostly predictably.  They don’t feel he should be anywhere near racists.  Some said they will cut him slack.

     

    An interesting note is Obama said nearly the same thing three weeks later.

     

    Please note that I believe Obama and Pete have similar optimism.  I wish that they know when to be accommodating and when to fight like hell.

  60. 60.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    Bernie thinks screaming shows hustle.  It’s false hustle.  Which is why he’s sunk to 9%

  61. 61.

    tobie

    Okay…Gabbard talks about the foreign policy cabal dictating the Democratic Party. I’m reminded enough why I hate her.

  65. 65.

    bluehill

    @Mary G:  I think overturning Trump tax cut is an easier sell than wealth tax. Hasn’t produced jobs, exploded the deficit, clear gift to the 1% and unpopular.

  66. 66.

    Leto

    Oh shit, Kamala coming out hard against Tulsi; fuck going for kneecaps, she brought her decapitation axe! Woot!

  71. 71.

    Jay

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch:

     

    Rolling Stone noted that both Buttigieg and Castro are Rhodes Scholars. Castro’s has been mentioned 54 times in news articles, Buttigieg’s 587 times.

     

    The US MSM isn’t just horseracing, misleading, misquoting, carrying ReThug water, engaged in misogyny, but they are fluffing as well.

  75. 75.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    my SO, who isn’t politically active, is openly laughing at Gabbard’s lame response.

     

    that’s how bad it is.

  78. 78.

    Raven Onthill

    Gods, Gabbard the Russian asset. And her face barely changes when Harris calls her on her conduct.

     

    Another sociopath. Danger Will Robinson.

     

    And Harris looks shocked by Gabbard’s response.

  80. 80.

    Dan B

    @Zinsky: Pete may look Jr. High by comparison with the other front runners.

     

    Never mind, he’ll start to look statesman like in ten to twenty years.

     

    In some ways we should all be so lucky… just sayin.

  81. 81.

    Barbara

    @Jay: Booker and Buttigieg were Rhodes scholars.  I didn’t think Castro was.  I am now contributing to 4 candidates:  Booker, Harris, Klobuchar and Warren.

  83. 83.

    BruceFromOhio

    Anyone watching? I am, dog help me.

    Oh baby, Gaia doesn’t pay no never mind, you are on your own.

     

    You do the dirty work so we don’t have to.

     

    Has the dumpster fire resigned yet? I have things that need doing.

  86. 86.

    zhena gogolia

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    Shoot, I missed it. By the time I got there it was fucking Tulsi. I’ve been listening to fucking Nunes all day, I’m not going to listen to fucking Tulsi. Please excuse my language.

  87. 87.

    JMG

    I’m sorry, this is just like the first day of the NCAA tournament. Twelve straight hours of politics, like 12 straight hours of basketball, sounds good when you start, but now I’ve hit the wall. I’ll read about the rest of the debate tomorrow.

  91. 91.

    Leto

    Dear Tom Steyer: term limits are already built into our political process. Maybe use some of your money to take a basic civics class.

  97. 97.

    Butter Emails

    @Baud:

    Buttigieg hasn’t performed particularly well in the debates thus far. I’m assuming they are just going to leave him alone so he doesn’t make any mistakes and continue with the fluffing and tongue bathing he’s enjoyed for the last few weeks as the emergency Biden.

  101. 101.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Leto:

     

    Well, the GOP also had “Did you know John McCain was a POW?”

     

    It sickens me that Gabbard uses her service as a shield from criticism

  103. 103.

    Marcopolo

    So in terms of the kinds of topics/questions that get asked: we sorely need some questions about climate change & women’s reproductive health/body autonomy.

    And I wish, wish, the moderators would just figure out a different way to approach these things, like radically different.

    Really liked Klobuchar just now.

    Yay, Yang gets a question!

  108. 108.

    dmsilev

    @Raven Onthill: He missed the point, badly. That was part of Newt Gingrich’s war against the Federal Government, and there’s a straight line between that and the Trump administration.

  110. 110.

    Mary G

    STFU Tom Steyer. You come from California; you’ve seen the damage direct voter legislating did with Prop 13, and term limits hand government to lobbyists.

  111. 111.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    How feasible would it be for the League of Women voters to host and moderate these debates again? Surely some wealthy D donor could put up the cash. PBS/NPR could even broadcast it

  120. 120.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    Amy and Kamala are winning  – hands down.

     

    Pete and Biden are dull.

     

    Warren is missing the tone of the night.

  121. 121.

    Dan B

    @Betty Cracker: Klobuchar rubs me the wrong way.  She must remind me of someone who made my life miserable, a stuffy judgemental great aunt or something.  And on capability she’s probably top notch.  It’s what we need now to fire up the Constitution, and apply some holy fire in the right directions.

     

    The country will need some charisma as well but the GOP is so lacking that any of the Dems will qualify.

  129. 129.

    Kent

    Well, that was a kickass answer by Harris.  She’s been my #1 since the beginning and I’ve been disappointed she hasn’t caught fire.   I’m 10 minutes behind the rest of you because I had to pause the TV when my wife was on the phone to work.

  130. 130.

    Mary G

    I’m on the Amy K. wagon now. She’s nervous but hitting the ball out of the park.

     

    Healing and unity are not what I want. I want a fighter.

  133. 133.

    zhena gogolia

    @WaterGirl:

     

    When I reply to a comment, half the time (or more), my comment doesn’t appear to me. I have to close BJ, open it again, click on the comments, go to the bottom, and THEN refresh in order to see my own comment. It also happens sometimes when I’m making a new comment.

  136. 136.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    Not currently watching the debate. Don’t want Wilmer’s wagging finger to come through the screen and break my tv. Was it one of the moderators crying about “civility”?

  145. 145.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    Ah, gotta love that double standard. Dems are always expected to act like grown-ups and tie both hands behind our backs

  147. 147.

    Cacti

    @Mary G: I also think Klobuchar would be a good candidate for the center lane that Biden has mostly had to himself.  And she has a much more impressive resume than Mayo Pete.

  148. 148.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    Biden finally had a good response.

     

    seems to be better speaking extemporaneously, rather then relying on a talking point

  149. 149.

    MomSense

    Went to an awesome craft night and then dashed over to a bar to hear my son’s  band tear it up.  I haven’t seen them play in awhile and it was killer.

     

    Now it’s back to open mic and this cute ginger millennial is singing a satirical song about trump on the toilet set to ukulele.   I love the youngs.

  150. 150.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    I don’t give a flying fuck about these debates any more. Same ol’ bull.  The wife makes we watch.  No issues so far with the new site on my android.

  153. 153.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Harris and Klobuchar are killing it.  Warren is not doing well.  Pete and Joe are holding serve.  Booker, why isn’t he catching on?  Fuck the rest of them.

  158. 158.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: According to this WaPo quiz I took, apparently Booker is my guy – at least, in how we apparently each feel about certain issues.

     

    Harris was my #3.

  159. 159.

    tobie

    Amy K’s last answer wasn’t her best but there’s she’s doing really well tonight as is Booker. Harris’ answer on 6 months paid family leave is good.

  161. 161.

    cmorenc

    @Scott: A sociopath won’t necessarily be able to beat a socialist in a us presidential election, but the socialist is spotting the sociopath a small handful of points- which could turn an election another otherwise progressive-friendly candidate could have won by a decisive margin into a close election that the sociopath can win with the aud of voter suppression and other sorts if corrupt interference

  162. 162.

    Marcopolo

    Klobuchar loses me with the over worrying about how we will pay for everything. We are a very wealthy country. If we really decide we want something we can find the resources—and R’s are not held to the same standard.

  168. 168.

    patroclus

    I like Biden.  He’s right about accomplishing more than everyone else put together.  But every time he speaks, I just cringe; waiting for the out-of-touch clueless gaffe.  I just don’t want him as President.

     

    So, I’ve been leaning towards Kloubuchar and am Harris-curious.  Aside from Biden, Amy has actually shepherded major bills through Congress.  She’s closest to me on actual issues.  Not so Wilmer or Warren.

  171. 171.

    Marcopolo

    Steyer is right about housing. It’s a CA issue so he is surely super aware of it.

    Would love a full question segment on housing. Big big issue.

    Warren is good on housing answer.

  174. 174.

    Jay

    @Marcopolo:

     

    nobody asks how to pay for wars,

     

    Mexico pays for walls,

     

    China pays for farm bail outs,

     

    almost like there is some kinda double standard,……..

  176. 176.

    debit

    None of this is changing my mind.  My choices have always been Harris first, then Warren.  I’ve always liked Booker but he hasn’t done anything yet to make me see him a my first or second choice.

  181. 181.

    debit

    Watergirl, I am not always getting the option to edit.  I post a comment, sometimes have to refresh to see it, and if so, there’s no edit option.  Windows 10, Firefox 70.0.1.

     

    ETA: and then after yet another refresh the edit option is there.

  187. 187.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jay: Mexico will also pay for M4A.

     

    “Don’t you like that, Russthuglican base?  You were screaming it about your orange emperor’s stupid, racist, climbable, border wall.

  189. 189.

    lamh36

    Castro should be on this stage but Yang or Stoyer or Tulsi

    Y’all should have seen @JulianCastro’s smile when they finally asked a housing question in #DemDebate. He literally just said “Housing is a Human Right!”

    #JuliánDebates

  190. 190.

    Kent

    Klobuchar makes me crazy with the austerity bullshit like we have to means test college tuition.  Atrios goes apeshit over this train of thought.  With a progressive income tax, nothing is ever free if you are wealthy.  Stop worrying about some millionaire’s kid getting a free pass in college.  Make things like education universal.  Otherwise you have to create complicated bullshit means tests for everything.   Anyone who has suffered through the FASFA knows exactly what I mean says this middle class parent with a kid in college.

  194. 194.

    Betty Cracker

    It’s always fun to complain about the moderators, but so far, there’s been very little “let’s you and him/her fight” framing. It’s refreshing.

  195. 195.

    Marcopolo

    @dmsilev: Its the NIMBY problem & lack of enough incentives to build affordable housing.

     

    Matthew Yglesias is actually a good person to read on this.

  196. 196.

    tobie

    Tulsi went there. “This is not a Democrat (sic) or Republican issue.” No ma’am. It’s Democratic.

  200. 200.

    Dan B

    @Raven Onthill: Is there a site to find out more about Klobuchar’s austerity beliefs.  One of the last things we need is an austerity / balanced budget push if the GOP has engineered a 2021 recession.  We would get a GOP wave in 2022 and 2024.

  206. 206.

    Marcopolo

    Idiotic answer on climate change from Gabbard.

     

    But yay Climate Change question.

     

    Steyer’d do better to leave out gratuitous attacks on fellow candidates who do have serious climate change policies/plans.

     

    Good Biden rebuttal.

  209. 209.

    sdhays

    @mrmoshpotato: Canada will pay the same percentage of M4A and free college and paid parental leave as Mexico has paid for Wall.

     

    It’s time our other neighbor received some absurd empty threats so that they don’t feel neglected.

  210. 210.

    Kent

    @tobie:Tulsi went there. “This is not a Democrat (sic) or Republican issue.” No ma’am. It’s Democratic.

     

    Anyone who can’t distinguish between a noun (Democrat) and adjective (Democratic) on national TV is too fucking uneducated to be president.

  211. 211.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense: The kids are alright!

     

    We are percolating (barely).  Want to fix some apartments in Greece.  Know anyone who could fix us up with that job?

  213. 213.

    Marcopolo

    This could be a place where Warren could talk about climate change informs all of her other policies/plans. That’s how you walk & chew gum at the same time. But she does seem a little off her game tonight.

  214. 214.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @lamh36:

    Good god, that Twitter thread is a shit show. Split between, “She’s a cop! She’d arrest for anything! Hur hur, and “she’s pretty unlikable tho”. Poor Harris.

  216. 216.

    sdhays

    @Kent: Anyone who can’t distinguish between a noun (Democrat) and adjective (Democratic) on national TV is too fucking uneducated to be a Democratic president.

    FTFY

  217. 217.

    Miss Bianca

    @Omnes Omnibus: I will say that Tulsi came in dead last on my personal “how close are you and the candidates” results.

     

    That said, continuing the catty pile-on, what’s with the white streak in her hair? Does she think that the “Cruella deVille: The Early Years” look is a winning one?

  221. 221.

    waratah

    I kind like Amy myself. I don’t want to.

    without Beto I have migrated to Kamela because she seems real. I Like Warren but she is not politician enough to deal with everything that is going to be faced.

    amy is a polished politician

  228. 228.

    lamh36

    Aww snap…Kamala is ??

    Kamala Harris: “Donald Trump got punked. He has conducted foreign policy since day one borne out of a very fragile ego.” @MSNBC

  231. 231.

    Marcopolo

    What, no mention of Trump’s threat to raise costs by 500 percent on Korea for our troops there? That South Korea is now talking to China on security issues? Missed opportunity.

    Reminds me there are way too many folks on the stage.

  232. 232.

    Kent

    I do gotta say I think this is the first debate I can recall that had a serious discussion of paid family leave, child care, and housing policy.   And a LOT on climate change.  Maybe having an all-woman panel is a big improvement.

  235. 235.

    Kent

    @tobie: When I lived in Texas, I was the one who would write irate emails to the NPR station managers when the local NPR hosts would borrow that affection.  Which they did a lot.   Maybe it’s a southern thing, a little bit.  But still, no excuse.

  239. 239.

    tobie

    @waratah:

    I’m homeless too. Everyone I give to doesn’t make it. Inslee, then Beto. I’ve given Klobuchar and Booker too. I’m hoping my donations are not curses. Kamala’s third on my list. Liked her response on paid family leave tonight. Was less taken with what she had to say on Korea…but that could be because she was trying to address Trump’s failures and her own approach at once.

  242. 242.

    Marcopolo

    @Kent: Yep.  Now 45 minutes left for them to bring up women’s health care.  Election security would be a good one too—or assuring voting rights/ease of voting.

  243. 243.

    mvr

    Interestingly, even the people who I don’t want to win are saying stuff I admire (well with one exception).  Steyer’s emphasis on climate was welcome and Klobuchar was smart about several things.

    (Though some of them are also saying some dumb stuff  – term limits FFS?!.)

    And Harris is sharp as always, though I wish she would not end her comments with herself as much as she does.

  246. 246.

    Dan B

    @Omnes Omnibus: Miyw*, because the full phrase is long.

     

    Where’s my prize?  /

     

     

    *Misogynist If You Want,

    Because OO asked nicely.

     

    And knitting is sooo old fashioned.  But I don’t want her to go back to being a brunette ideologue on FUX either.

  248. 248.

    jl

    ” Kill me now. ”

    Like Trump, Mr. Cole will have to accept that we commenters will make many sacrifices for him, surrender our honor for him, but won’t do hard time for him.

     

    As for the debate, just started listening. From what I heard so far, some moderator questions are better than before, but most of them are just as bad as what we see before.  And the candidates are showing them the respect they deserve by mostly ignoring them.  And often the moderators just give up and don’t pester when the candidates don’t answer a stupid, or malicious, or childish question, and at least that kind of surrender is the kind of phoning it in that I can get behind.

     

    The foreign policy questions are particularly irritating, stated in a childish way, designed to extract a gotcha more than anything. But so far, questions like that on all topics.

  249. 249.

    Jay

    Andy Ngo is posting the names and photos of random people who’ve been arrested, and labeling them “Antifa Mugshots.”At the very least, this will lead to innocent people being harassed & threatened, but I fear it will lead to far worse. This isn’t journalism; this is a vendetta. pic.twitter.com/NeaJUeJge5— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) November 21, 2019

    Keep in mind that Andy Ngo is a threat to our communities and provides kill lists to Atomwaffen.

  261. 261.

    Jay

    Wow. Indicted Giuliani associate Lev Parnas helped arrange meetings & calls in Europe for Rep. Devin Nunes in 2018. The meetings “were arranged to help Nunes’ investigative work.”And now Nunes is overseeing an impeachment inquiry that involves Parnas. https://t.co/h7WtzaYpcv— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) November 21, 2019

  263. 263.

    Marcopolo

    @Baud: She actually brought it home at the end by saying it doesn’t have to be military service.  But her family story bit messed up the progression of the thought.

     

    I think a national service requirement is a great idea.  My dad, who was a poor white boy from rural Ohio always said being in the army is what opened his eyes to the existence of AA folks, and people from other backgrounds.

  268. 268.

    waratah

    @tobie: The problem is that Beto is what is missing on that stage tonight.

    He was able to attract  the votes of all ages all colors and the young  and  independents and some Republicans in the senate race and I think he would have the national race with a little more time.

  273. 273.

    bluehill

    Dems need to make an executive decision about Gabbard. I have a feeling that whatever the threshold is to appear in the debates she will squeak by. Does she do any campaigning outside of these debates and conservative talk shows?

  274. 274.

    Marcopolo

    Okay, I would love to see Yang run for mayor or some other lower level office because I do think he has some good ideas & he does seem to think about things. I’d like to see how he’d do.

  275. 275.

    sdhays

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch: They can still make up for it by similarly aggressive coverage of Nikki Haley’s failure to use a secure email system because she “forgot her password”.

     

    I’m sure that’s what they have lined up for Friday’s edition.

  276. 276.

    jl

    @Baud: ” I don’t get Warren’s answer on military service. ”

     

    I thought Warren said we need to include option of military service in the context of a broader national service program, but not sure. Not the best Warren ‘clearsplaining’ episodes.

  280. 280.

    lamh36

    “At some point, folks get tired of being told thanks for showing up but not showing up for me.”

    — Kamala Harris

    #DemDebate

    On Black women voters!!!

    THANK U KAMALA

  282. 282.

    Marcopolo

    Great response by Kamala.

    Cynically pretty sure Buttigieg will get like 1000% more media attention for his response.

  283. 283.

    Emerald

    I’m not watching. Will catch the rerun. Haven’t seen much  in this thread or in Twitter about Biden, Pete or Bernie. Are they still participating? Whattup?

  285. 285.

    lamh36

    “The question has to be: where you been, and what are you going to do?”

    — Kamala Harris, on the neglect and erasure of Black women, who consistently show up for the rest of us

    #DemDebate

  287. 287.

    sdhays

    @Marcopolo: Such an office is beneath billionaires like Tom Steyer and Andrew Yang. The fucking presumptuousness of these assholes that they think because they amassed a disgusting amount of money that they have what it takes to be President makes it impossible for me to listen to a thing they have to say.

     

    At least Pritzker in Illinois started out as governor of a large state. If he runs in 2028 and has had a successful 2 terms, I’ll be willing to give him a hearing. But these lazy-ass rich fools who want to go straight to the White House can GTFO.

  291. 291.

    lamh36

    good point!

    They’re not attacking Buttigieg bc he’s not doing much nationally and a lot of the people he does have—in particular in Iowa—like him because they dislike conflict. Attacking him would just harden their support of him.

    Also, if you’re Warren or Harris why wouldn’t you want Buttegieg to be doing well in Iowa? His votersarent likely to come to you, but they would go to Biden.

    https://twitter.com/danahoule/status/1197358820571459589?s=21

  293. 293.

    Jeffro

    Dems missed a good soundbite moment just now, about “would they tear down whatever portions of trumpov’s wall have been built”

     

    how about “ Let it stand as a monument to racist stupidity?  An object lesson”

  294. 294.

    Gin & Tonic

    @sdhays: Andrew Yang is very far from a billionaire. I’m not a fan, for many reasons, but he’s only worth in the single-digit millions.

  295. 295.

    MomSense

    @Immanentize:

     

    i just might.  It’s already so bone chilling cold up heah- reno in Athens sounds ideal. I’ve got stuff to figure out given the economy there.

  298. 298.

    patroclus

    LOL – Biden’s gaffe on ganja and Carol Moseley Braun…(with Senator Harris standing right there).

  299. 299.

    sdhays

    @lamh36: Also, if you’re Warren or Harris why wouldn’t you want Buttegieg to be doing well in Iowa? His votersarent likely to come to you, but they would go to Biden.

    I wonder how true this is. I remember earlier this year being rather surprised that Biden’s entry into the race actually hit Bernie pretty hard, even though you wouldn’t think of those two guys as having overlapping voters. It’s left me wary of accepting the conventional wisdom of who the supporters of one candidate would like if said candidate dropped out.

  300. 300.

    Marcopolo

    @sdhays: Um, Andrew Yang ain’t a billionaire.  Bloomberg is (but he was NYC mayor) Schultz is. If Steyer wanted to be a mayor or governor that would be great but I don’t find him to be as interesting as Yang.  I’d genuinely like to see what Yang would be like/do in elected office.

  308. 308.

    sdhays

    @Gin & Tonic: I had thought I had read that he was also a billionaire. But it’s still the case that the only reason he’s on that stage is that he’s rich. And I find that irritating.

  310. 310.

    Kent

    @Marcopolo: Yeah.   I don’t think you can remotely triangulate who’s supporters will go where.   A huge section of the Dem Party electorate are just looking around for who they think can best have wide appeal and beat Trump.  They aren’t caught up in all the partisan twitter fights over irrelevant policy issues like M4A.  They just want to pick a winner.   Mayor Pete’s following could easily switch over to Warren or Harris or whoever seems likely to beat Trump.  I don’t think it is mostly ideology.

  311. 311.

    Marcopolo

    Yay, a women’s health care question. Now ask one about election/voting security.

    Good to see Warren get some good responses in in this half hour.

  315. 315.

    jl

    @sdhays: From what I’ve seen, a lot of movement in Sanders and Warren have not been between the two of them, but between each of them an different sorts of more centrist candidates.  Warren supporters, for the most part, not quite the purity ponies that Sanders supporters are.

     

    That may be changing now, since more lefty Warren supporters may be moving to Sanders because they see Warren as not being properly steadfast and pure on M4A. I disagree, I think Warren’s approach is best way to get something substantial done if we get Presidency and Senate. And Warren’s plan has already gotten some important union support, which will be very important in getting something passed, and to counter onslaught of insurance and corporate hospital and medical group chain propaganda.

  317. 317.

    tobie

    @jk: Yeah…that’s an option but I’d rather put what money I can to the causes/candidates I believe in.

    On another note: Warren gave a great answer on abortion rights and I resent Sanders jumping in to talk about what men can do (even if it was to say they should support choice).

  318. 318.

    smintheus

    @Dan B:  Statesman like? The guy who announced he didn’t need to develop any policies, he was just going to go around impressing people with his personality?

  321. 321.

    Marcopolo

    @sdhays: Sorry, you’re plain wrong. Yang’s net worth is only $1-3 million.  Maybe you are thinking of Delaney?  Yang is up on that stage on the strength of his UBI message & using social media/non regular media channels very adeptly.

  328. 328.

    Kent

    @Marcopolo: @sdhays: Sorry, you’re plain wrong. Yang’s net worth is only $1-3 million.  Maybe you are thinking of Delaney?  Yang is up on that stage on the strength of his UBI message & using social media/non regular media channels very adeptly.

     

    It’s weird.  Because I somehow thought he was a tech millionaire too. Not sure how I picked that up.   I just haven’t paid him that much attention.

  335. 335.

    tobie

    @zhena gogolia: I don’t like Tulsi and think she has no judgment but Pete’s comments on sending US troops to Mexico to take on the cartels was awful. Even if Mexico approved this, it’s a bad call. This was our policy in Colombia with the war on drugs and it did’t work out at all.

  338. 338.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    Pete had a meh night – until the end when he clobbered the Russian agent, ushering him in the debate’s winner circle with Kamala and Amy.

  343. 343.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense: I am slouching toward sabbatical.  The Immp and I are working on a Mediterranean cruise.  In calling it The Oligarch Trip.  Stops at Malta, Athens, Turkey.  Stop over in Israel for some meetings?  So, c’mon along.

  345. 345.

    dmsilev

    I feel we need a Gabbard “aloha” drinking game. Take a sip from a tropical cocktail, presumably.

  346. 346.

    Jay

    @Jeffro:

     

    problem is factual. 0 miles of Dolt 45’s wall have been built.

     

    some amount of previous fencing and “wall” has been repaired, augumented, repainted or had the concertina wire stolen.

  347. 347.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    I took the Washington Post Quiz, too.  My top 2 were Biden and Yang.  Klobuchar was 3rd.  Warren and Sanders came in last.  Biden is too old to be a two term president.  Yang has a lot of good answers, but I don’t think he is ready to be president.  I like Warren as a happy warrior, but I just disagree with a number of her policies.  I am not a progressive.

  348. 348.

    jk

    @tobie:

     

    I think it’s an incredibly risky proposition to nominate someone who’s 77 years old.  People need to wake the Hell up.  If Biden is the nominee, it’s going to be wall to wall Burisma Ukraine and Biden’s health.  Any Democratic nominee will leave weaknesses that Rethuglicans can exploit,  but Biden’s negatives dwarf the negatives of all the other viable candidates.

  349. 349.

    Marcopolo

    By the way, the field shrank today when Wayne Messam announced he was pulling out. So there’s that.

    I don’t really have clear sense anyone won this debate clean. Gabbard & Steyer did the worst. Yang had a moment. Everyone else has had some good moments. Biden had his gaffe. Of course, it could just be I am effing exhausted from watching political TV for way too many hours.

    I was totally pleased that these moderators did at least cover issues previously ignored. And we really need to winnow this down by another 3 or 4 folks.

  351. 351.

    smintheus

    @Marcopolo:  National service is a terrible and wasteful idea. I’ve lived in countries that have national service requirements. The great majority of young people forced to spend a year or two of their lives on that resent it rather deeply, and because it churns massive numbers of people through with little likelihood they’ll make a career of it, there’s almost no thought given to them. They’re barely trained at all, and what little effort that is expended on them is spent trying to find some place to park them for a year or two until their service time is over. It’s like sentencing your youth to work release prison because, hey, maybe they’ll learn something edifying. What young people mostly learn from the experience is that their government doesn’t give a shit about them. Only last week I had this conversation with a foreign student who is still virulently angry that he was forced to waste two years doing nothing before he could start college.

  352. 352.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    @Marcopolo: Debates are won by who has the best moments that then get amplified by mass secondary coverage.

     

    A single sound bite can get repeated ad infinitum (ie “Please proceed, Governor”).

  354. 354.

    jl

    @Marcopolo: ” I was totally pleased that these moderators did at least cover issues previously ignored. ”

     

    I dissed the moderators earlier, but forgot to thank them for at least covering some neglected but very important issues. I think the questions on domestic policy were better than in previous debates.

  358. 358.

    Kent

    @smintheus: There are right and wrong ways to do national service.   My wife is from Chile and went to medical school down there for free.  The quid-pro-quo was that she had 2 years of national service obligation AFTER she graduated from medical school in a rural health clinic in an underserved part of Chile.  Every doctor who graduates from a Chilean medical school has the same obligation.  If they blow it off they get a bill for the 6 years of med school tuition.  Which some of the wealthy actually do.

     

    National service for 18 year olds is stupid.  But free college followed by national service requirements for newly trained and skilled people makes some sense, at least for some degrees.  Not loan forgiveness with a bunch of hoops to jump through.  But actual free college with a service requirement at the end.

  361. 361.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:

    It still makes me feel good that I replied to a TS email using that same type of language. Something about go the fuck away and spend your money electing actual people who give a shit about something other than money.

    At least I never got another email from his dumb ass.

  364. 364.

    tomtofa

    @smintheus:

    But if their service is in the military, they’ll learn the difference between a clip and whatever the other word for it is. Could serve them well in their talks with gun nuts.

    Other than that, kind of agree, depending on what the scope of national service opportunities might be.

  365. 365.

    Marcopolo

    @smintheus: So make it voluntary.  Was the Peace Corps a disaster? Was Americorp a disaster? What incentives did the other countries offer participants?  I’m an optimist & think there is a way to do it that would work.  And as to kids ages 17-21, yeah the vast majority will resent being asked to do something for a year or two just by nature.  But I definitely won’t ruleit out of hand.

  366. 366.

    sdhays

    @tobie: You have to be extraordinary. As an example, Warren is 70 going on youthful 60. Her stamina is really impressive. She’s kind of old, numerically, but I have no doubts about her physical or mental ability to perform the job.

     

    I’m sure there are 77 year olds out there who seem 10-15 years younger and would be plausibly up to the rigors of an 8 year Presidency and 2 Presidential campaigns, but Joe Biden isn’t one of them. If anything, he seems closer to a vigorous 85 to me. The post-Obama years seem to have really accelerated his aging.

  367. 367.

    Marcopolo

    @jl: I was unhappy at the half hour & hour mark but they won me over by the end.  Of course, the other half of the issue is too many candidates.

  368. 368.

    tobie

    This is a little off topic but I’d be hard pressed to say that any of the candidates tonight displayed the rhetorical power and moral force that Adam Schiff has shown in the hearings. I want that so much but maybe that’s an unfair expectation.

  371. 371.

    smintheus

    @Kent: If it’s only imposed as payment in kind for college tuition, then it’s not universal national service. Yes there are better and worse ways to do the kind of thing you’re describing – rewarding people for investing in their careers – but there are only bad ways and worse ways to do mandatory universal national service.

  372. 372.

    NotMax

    Fell into Deep Nap™ about a half hour before it began, woke up only in time for the closing statements. Noticed that Steyer essentially repeated Adam’s post from earlier today.

  374. 374.

    jl

    @Marcopolo: ” So make it [voluntary service] voluntary. ”

    Would have to provide programs of high enough quality to mean something on a resume, if there were no other special incentives for participation.

     

    I wouldn’t dismiss the idea of national service. But does Warren really have a plan for that? I’ll go check, but doesn’t sound like it from her answer.

  375. 375.

    jl

    @Duane: ‘ I was almost asleep till Joe yelled,” Get up! Get up!” ‘

     

    Well, there you go. Uncle Joe Biden speaks to all of us who tried to hang on to the debate to the very end.

  377. 377.

    Eljai

    I kind of wish I could coach Amy Klobuchar, even though I’m wildly unqualified.  I just think there’s got to be a way for her to reframe her positions so that she doesn’t sound like that friend or relative who tells you to smother your dreams in favor of something more practical.  Because her ideas could actually lead to something really good if we take back all three branches of government.

  379. 379.

    MomSense

    @Immanentize:

     

    I’m envious.  That should be an amazing trip.  In Athens of course you have to see the Acropolis and the museums, but one of my favorite places is Lekavitos. I think there is a tram, but I always walk up.  Light a candle in the small sanctuary (icons are amazing) then watch the sunset from the patio.  To the left is Piraeus, in front of you on another high point is the Temple of Athena, and to your right the Parthenon.  The color of the stone temples with the rosy late sun is something really special.

  381. 381.

    Ruckus

    @jk:

    Knowing when it’s your time to retire is always a question for olds. Not knowing when you are past that time is a tell as to getting too old. Joe has passed his sell by date. What amazes me is that after how badly he did the last two times he ran, is how he’s managing to have hung on this long. It’s that President Obama spotlight that he thinks he’s still glowing in. He’s not a bad guy, just the wrong age, wrong political sense at the wrong time.

  382. 382.

    jl

    @Eljai: Klobuchar is my favorite centrist solely in terms of policy. But she really has a tin ear for national politics.

     

    Sometimes when she gives answers that  sound so sour and dispiriting, I think about all the ways she could express the same policy ideas in a more optimistic positive encouraging way. And I am sympathetic to more progressive policies, but I feel that I am not a vicious person, and I feel sorry for the reasonable centrist policies that she presents in such a downer way.

  383. 383.

    The Lodger

    Just saw Harris with Chris Matthews. Hell, I want her to win just because it would give Tweety a stroke.

  384. 384.

    jl

    @Ruckus: Biden looked much better in the context of Obama presidency, Obama cabinet. Some people can grow in unexpected directions with an experience like that. I don’t think Biden has, unfortunately. His primary candidacy reminds me very much of his previous attempts, and in some ways, not favorably to what he is doing now.

  385. 385.

    jl

    @The Lodger:  ” Just saw Harris with Chris Matthews. Hell, I want her to win just because it would give Tweety a stroke. ”

     

    Maybe at least get a hell of fart out Matthews. Which would be fitting since Matthews’ problems with women in leadership positions is ridiculous and pathetic.

  386. 386.

    jk

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

     

    When it comes to age, I have one rule of thumb.  I don’t believe in voting for any candidate over 75 years old.  I didn’t mention Sanders because I’m confident that he’ll fade away after NH.

     

    With respect to Biden, Democratic voters need to get their shit together.  He’ll be eaten alive if he’s the nominee.  Republicans will beat him over the head about Burisma and his age and as we’ve seen he’s a horrible counterpuncher.

  387. 387.

    Ruckus

    @sdhays:

    Many of us on this blog are in our 70s. EW and I are less than 3 weeks apart in age. She does seem to have the vitality of a very healthy 60 yr old. I on the other hand am not so lucky. And neither are most of us this age. We show the effects of living, some more some less. But it gets rarer and rarer to see as much difference among us as we get towards 75-78 yrs old. Yes there are those who live to over 100, and quite a few who live into their 90s. But able to do the level of work actually required and deal with the stress reasonably at 75 or above? NFW. And BTW my docs all tell me I don’t look my age. Looks are/can be rather deceiving. Which I tell my docs every time they say that about my age.

  388. 388.

    Eljai

    Oh Jesus, Brian Williams is having Michael Moore on the MSNBC panel.  I think it’s time to pull away from the TV now.

  389. 389.

    jk

    @Ruckus:

     

    What amazes me is that after how badly he did the last two times he ran, is how he’s managing to have hung on this long. It’s that President Obama spotlight that he thinks he’s still glowing in. He’s not a bad guy,

     

    I think many voters are too lazy to study the candidates and simply latch on to Biden because he’s a known quantity, but given the monstrosity of Trump we need someone who can think quick on his feet to combat bullshit Republican talking points and that ain’t uncle Joe.

  390. 390.

    Ruckus

    @Eljai:

    There is a point about being practical.

    But in politics practical usually ends up being the status quo.

    As in, it’s not practical to have free college at this point, or it’s not practical to upset the health insurance industry, or any number of reasons not to do something to make life better. It’s just not practical, now, come back and see me in 20 yrs. We have too may issues to always be politically practical. We have to change some things, because where we are isn’t working for a whole lot of citizens.

  391. 391.

    jk

    @sdhays:

     

    Warren is 70 going on youthful 60.

    I have no reservations about Warren with respect to age and I think there’s a world of difference between 70 years old and 77 or 78 years old.

  392. 392.

    Jay

    @Ruckus:

     

    funny thing is how many of the things that arn’t “practical” right now, were not only practical 3 decades ago, but were taken for granted.

  393. 393.

    mrmoshpotato

    @jk:

    I have no reservations about Warren with respect to age and I think there’s a world of difference between 70 years old and 77 or 78 years old.

    Especially when it comes to yelly men. Jeez, they’re so emotional.

  394. 394.

    206inKY

    @Eljai: Agree when it comes to the primary. But it’s also why she’s managed to win red counties in Minnesota by blowout margins despite an impressive track record of progressive legislation. Up thread, some folks claimed Klobucher supports austerity. That’s just false. Finding a way to pay for things is not the same as austerity, which sees cutting deficits as a policy goal to protect creditors by preventing inflation, even at the cost of great suffering for ordinary people. I didn’t hear that from Klobucher at all. She wants to do stuff, not cut stuff. But she also recognizes that a lot of moderate voters like the sound of trying to pay for what you buy. It might sound a little dream-crushing, but it also conveys a sense of responsibility that some voters find highly appealing, like she can be trusted with the credit card while they go back to ignoring politics.

  395. 395.

    Mandalay

    @jk:

    With respect to Biden, Democratic voters need to get their shit together.  He’ll be eaten alive if he’s the nominee.

    This, many times over.

     

    I have many concerns about  Biden, but the biggest is that Trump would destroy him in televised debates. Biden has been Bambi in the headlights during the debates when he’s been under relatively friendly fire facing predictable attacks.

     

    Trump would skin him alive him in front of millions of viewers.

  396. 396.

    Eljai

    @Ruckus: There is a downside to being practical.  I can see that.  And I can understand why many folks would be impatient.  I’m kind of torn because I love Warren and I’m fine with M4All, but I also see a path forward, say, if we got a majority in the senate, no matter how slim, of strengthening the ACA and adding a public option, which is Klobuchar’s position.  I mean, that’d still be pretty great in my book.

  398. 398.

    moonbat

    @Ruckus: I agree with this. If we keep just picking up the pieces of good governance left to us after every disastrous Republican presidency, we’re just slow sliding into the abyss. The reason I like Warren is that she forces us to acknowledge that the status quo is broken and something major needs to be done about it. Can she get all her plans enacted as they are written at this moment? Almost certainly not, because that’s not how politics works. It will have to go through LOTS of hands before anything is passed and the end product will be different. But by getting everyone to focus on the structural issues that are wrong with our way of doing government, she is shifting us away from the “can we save Medicare/SS/public education?” Democratic framing which is so defensive and self defeating and into a “This is how we make the system work for everyone.” That in itself would be a HUGE step forward and one we desperately need in this country if we don’t want to end up a banana republic without the bananas.

  399. 399.

    Jay

    @206inKY:

     

    the deficit and debt of the US since Dolt 45 means that if you are the least bit concerned about “how you are going to pay for stuff”, then you can’t afford to pay for anything.

     

    all the money’s already spent on endless wars, war toys, tax breaks for billionaires, welfare for Big Ag and corporate subsidies.

  402. 402.

    lamh36

    I think is was Kay who said she likes how Kamala Harris turns a bad question from an interviewer around and is yess answers the question she WANTS to be asked.

    Oof. @DanaBashCNN asks @KamalaHarris about Mayor Pete comparing his struggle with black people’s. “I’m never going to engage, or allow anyone to engage in comparing struggles. I think that is just misdirected.”

    this might be an example of that…Dana Bash was trying to bait her into tearing into Pete

  403. 403.

    jk

    @Mandalay:

     

    I have many concerns about  Biden, but the biggest is that Trump would destroy him in televised debates. Biden has been Bambi in the headlights during the debates when he’s been under relatively friendly fire facing predictable attacks.

    Trump would skin him alive him in front of millions of viewers.

    You just described the almost daily nightmare I’ve had since Biden entered this race.

     

    Another new concern I’ve been having is that Mitch McConnell might try to drag an impeachment trial out for as long as possible in order to keep Harris, Booker, Warren, Klobuchar, and Sanders off the campaign trail.  I’m not suggesting that Dems are wrong to pursue an impeachment against Trump, but I hope McConnell doesn’t manage to outmaneuver the Democrats in a way that insures Trump faces the weakest candidate in November.

  404. 404.

    Cacti

    @Kent: late 70s?   Bernie would be what?   87 at the end of his 2nd term?  And Biden would be 86.  How about mid-80s.

    Having had a heart attack, it’s questionable whether Bernie would live to see the end of a first term.

    The median life expectancy for patients having a heart attack at age 75 or older is 3.1 years.

  405. 405.

    Mandalay

    O/T, but this tweet from Trump yesterday is an instructive example of the pervasive and pathetic nature of his lying:

    Today I opened a major Apple Manufacturing plant in Texas that will bring high paying jobs back to America. Today Nancy Pelosi closed Congress because she doesn’t care about American Workers!

    The plant opened in 2013.

    It’s such a pointless lie. He’s been busted for it, and he had nothing to gain by telling it, yet still he lied.

    Lying about Ukraine and Stormy Daniels is at least rational. But lying about a opening a manufacturing plant? I don’t buy the notion that he don’t realize he’s lying for a moment. But is it a compulsion that he can’t really control?

  406. 406.

    Jay

    @jk:

     

    Yurtle the Turtle dragging out an Impeachment Trial has no significant impact on 2020 Campaigning by the Cantidates. Dragging out an impeachment however mean’s that most of the Election subject(s), will be Impeachment Testimony and Evidence.

     

    You don’t need almost 2 years to elect a President. Most Western Democracies manage to choose an entire Government in 90 days or less.

     

    If you are going to worry about Yurtle, worry that Yurtle jams through both the “trial” and the vote in one day, making a complete mockery of US Democracy.

  410. 410.

    janesays

    @Jay: I think you’re confusing Castro and Booker. Castro’s academic credentials are solid – Stanford (BA) and Harvard (JD) – but he wasn’t Rhodes Scholar. Cory Booker was a Rhodes scholar – Stanford (BA, MA), Oxford (MA), Yale (JD).

  411. 411.

    janesays

    @lamh36: I love Castro, but the reason he wasn’t on the stage (while Yang, Gabbard, and Steyer were) is because he didn’t meet the minimum polling threshold. Not even close. He needed to be at 3% in four different polls, and he wound up being at 3% in exactly zero polls. Anybody who can’t hit 3% in a single major poll three months before the voting begins has absolutely no hope of being the nominee.

     

    I vastly prefer Castro to the other three you mentioned, but we either have criteria to get on the stage or we don’t. To be honest, I think the biggest problem right now is that it’s still way too easy to get a spot on the debate stage – we should be down to single digits in the number of candidates whose campaigns are still being treated as viable at this point. It looks like everybody on the stage tonight is likely to make the December debate, with the exception of Cory Booker – he has yet to hit 4% in a single poll, and he needs to hit that mark in four of them in the next three weeks to have a spot. Doesn’t seem very likely to happen. Biden, Warren, Sanders, Buttigieg, Harris, and Klobuchar have already secured their spots. Unfortunately, it looks highly likely that Steyer, Yang, and Gabbard will all be on stage as well, as they are all just barely shy of hitting the required benchmarks to be there.

  412. 412.

    janesays

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: It looks like they’ll probably be wrapped up in the Intel committee by the end of the month, and I’m guessing Judiciary will have articles ready to be voted on right before they break for the end of the year. I’ll be surprised if the House isn’t wrapped up with their end of the deal by mid-January, at the latest. Which would give McConnell the opportunity to launch a lengthy impeachment trial literally right as the voting is about to begin.

  413. 413.

    206inKY

    @Jay: You identify a pretty good pot of money — “endless wars, war toys, tax breaks for billionaires, welfare for Big Ag and corporate subsidies” — that can be raided to pay for things like the Klob’s 3-month paid leave proposal. Warren is proposing to do just that — her plan to pay for M4A includes 800bn in military cuts. But I don’t see anyone accusing Warren for supporting austerity. Klobucher is just a little more modest in her vision.

  415. 415.

    Ruckus

    @Mandalay:

    But is it a compulsion that he can’t really control?

    It may be that he’s just so used to making up crap to hopefully make himself look good that he’s forgotten the difference. He obviously has at least one major psychological issue, if not multiple ones. Nothing surprises me about this human basket case.

  417. 417.

    Dan B

    @smintheus:  Pete looks like a kid in 10 or 20 years he might look like a Hollywood version of “statesman”. In other words, superficially.

    Harris has rolled out a similar number of plans. At this point in the election cycle it could be argued that putting policy first is less important than building a brand and getting noticed.

    Pete’s youthfulness comes in handy as one ages. It’s an obstacle to being taken seriously as a world leader. Such is life.

  419. 419.

    Miss Bianca

    @Immanentize: My father and I were going to go on a cruise like that before he died. Sigh. Maybe I’ll make it back to the Greek islands and to Turkey before I die too.

  420. 420.

    janesays

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I don’t think that’s clear at all. Pelosi is hedging on putting a firm timeline on it, but it sounds like most House Democrats want the inquiry portion wrapped up by the end of the year.

     

    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/17/pelosi-impeachment-democrats-trump-071315

    Pelosi and other senior Democrats have long declined to publicly commit to an end date to their impeachment investigation into whether Trump violated his oath of office by pressuring Ukraine to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden, a top political rival.
     
    Democrats have said privately they hope to finish the inquiry by the end of the year, allowing enough time for a possible Senate trial before voting starts in the presidential nominating contest, beginning with the Iowa caucuses on Feb. 3.
     
    But with House investigators still conducting closed-door depositions, a slate of public hearings set for next week and no indication yet of when the process will move to the House Judiciary Committee, Democrats have started privately worrying that the inquiry won’t be finished before Congress leaves for Christmas next month.

  421. 421.

    janesays

    @Betty: I dread the idea of Schumer being Majority Leader after the 2020 elections, but I see no reason to believe that won’t be the case.

     

    Generally speaking, these Congressional leadership spots stay with the leader until the leader retires or no longer wants the job. Occasionally a major scandal will derail them out of the job (Trent Lott), but I can’t imagine Schumer is going to just willingly step aside two years from now (especially since he’s only had his leadership spot since 2017 and has never gotten the opportunity to be Majority Leader), and I can’t imagine his senate colleagues forcing him out of the job.

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