Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

People are complicated. Love is not.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

I was promised a recession.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

This fight is for everything.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Bark louder, little dog.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Cold Grey Pre-Dawn Impeachment Recap Open Thread: Sondland’s Testimony

Cold Grey Pre-Dawn Impeachment Recap Open Thread: Sondland’s Testimony

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56Comments

  1. 1.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    “Secular Talk/@KyleKulinski” is one of the assholes from the young turks who maintained russia didn’t interfere, and even if they did it’s okay because the US interfered in other elections, and even if it wasn’t okay,  forget about it because it’s a distraction from Bernie’s agenda.   Ukrainegate proves he’s just an asshole who hates Democrats.

  2. 2.

    Freemark

    Nunes and Jimmy were so shrill nails on a chalkboard would have been soothing in comparison. ‘How can we have a fair trial if we can’t slime the 911 caller and Hunter Biden, guy who has nothing to do with the crime we’re investigating’. Boo f-ing hoo.  There are mob bosses in jail with a hell of a lot less proof of their crimes than what we are seeing here.

    The bad news is we know that the top mob boss, Putin, outright owns at least seven Republican Senators on the jury.

  3. 3.

    NotMax

    Have to punch the Page Down key seven times to scroll down enough screens to be able to see the first comment on the PC monitor? Really?

    Have mercy. There’s less available real estate, width-wise, than previously (plus more vertical white space than before within each blockquote box) so every additional tweet individually blockquoted subsequently adds more length to wade through than it used to.

  4. 4.

    montanareddog

    2 points that the MSM s finally waking up to following today’s testimony have been obvious for weeks, and just illustrate the sheer Twitter-bubble incompetence of the media :

    1. Trump was never interested in an investigation of 2016 conspiracy theories and Burisma/Biden. The deliverable was the public announcement of investigations, that he could use as a weapon in the campaign
    2. Walker revealing that Sondland told him that he (Sondland) had spoken to the President and there was “No QPQ” (abbreviated because I can only hear the full phrase in Trump and Jordan’s voices now) was a giant CYA tell that Trump knew the game was up (the Trump-Sondland conversation occurred in early September as the whistleblower complaint was about to break)

    I hope they continue to hammer it

  5. 5.

    Chyron HR

    What if Amb. Sondland was named GLIBBENSFLORP?  That would make his testimony ridiculous, and therefore nobody should listen to it!

  7. 7.

    p.a.

    1) A corollary of the continuing ‘stupidification’ of the Republican electorate is the stupidification of their elected reps.  “Incompetence in defense of criminality is no crime.”

     

    2) I remember a line graph of Fox News coverage of, I believe, the leadup to ACA act passage. A sharp drop in coverage after its successful votes, and a sharp increase in whatever next white person outrage issue Murdoch decided on.  Nothing currently has been decided, but I might assume increasing Fox coverage about what a WONDERFUL economy we have, at least until they formulate some new b.s. impeachment firewalls.  OTOH, see 1).  Maybe they just keep repeating themselves.

  8. 8.

    montanareddog

    Pompeo and Pence knew what was going on and were threading the needle of not angering Trump while keeping their hands as clean as possible.

     

    The key figure here is Mulvaney. He held up the military assistance and even admitted to it in a press conference. He can testify as to why the aid was held up and produce the documents to prove it – meeting minutes, emails between departments discussing how to resolve the reasons for the hold. That he is not producing anything exculpatory is clear evidence in itself and Democrats have to keep hammering this to the public, and that he is refusing a subpoena to appear before the committee. Now it is time to use inherent contempt and any other tools they may have to put pressure on him. And subpoena the OMB records.

  9. 9.

    Rusty

    I was driving most of yesterday so missed a lot of the news and commentary on the hearings.  Coffee and gas breaks I quickly caught up.  I did flip on the hearing for a few moments, which was deeply sad.  A Republican was trying to find up sympathy for Sondland by asking questions about protests at his hotel and how the guests had to leave their way inside.  Think of the weaving guests!  Is that that the best they have, I thought?  I turned it off.  They have wanted to go full Kavanaugh and attack the witnesses and make themselves victims, but so far it’s not working.  I expect them to amp it up as a last defense.

  10. 10.

    Kay

    Of the Never Trumpers, I loathe Tom Nichols. His Party collapsed in a heap of corruption, xenophobia and grifterism and yet he scolds Democrats constantly.

    This isn’t how it works, Republicans. It isn’t the Democrats fault that the Republican Party is a shit show and it doesn’t mean Democrats have a duty to adopt all your Right wing policy preferences.

    Don’t take your bullshit about belt tightening and bring it over here. No one ordered you to run up huge debt every time you’re in power.

    Republicans have always been bad with a budget. Always. Every single one of them runs up the debt and deficit yet they still see themselves as excellent managers. It had nothing to do with Trump. They’ve been telling themselves this lie since Reagan. They pay for NOTHING.

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Annie Grayer‏Verified account @AnnieGrayerCNN

    Governor @DevalPatrick was supposed to have an event at Morehouse College tonight. An organizer with the college who planned the event told CNN that Patrick cancelled the event when he arrived and learned that he would not have an audience. (Note, two people came, not pictured)

  12. 12.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kay:

    Of the Never Trumpers, I loathe Tom Nichols. His Party collapsed in a heap of corruption, xenophobia and grifterism and yet he scolds Democrats constantly.

    Kay, don’t you know it was the Democrats’ fault for driving the Russthuglican base into Dump’s arms because…ummm…..brain can’t come up with a stupid enough reason this early?

    So….ummmm….how about that “Never Trumper” Rick Wilson? (To hell with him too.)

    I guess my point is we should nominate someone the Russthuglicans approve of.

  13. 13.

    Kay

    Just don’t let us kid ourselves about these people. The Never Trumpers and the Trumpers alike still all believe in the magical formula of reducing revenue and increasing spending and “growth” will magically end up with a net.

    Jeb Bush is right now, today, giving speeches about how the Trump tax cuts would have worked but for “entitlement” outlays. They’re still all salivating to get their greedy paws on Social Security and use it to pay for another round of tax cuts. They’d like nothing goddammned better than to means test Medicare while plowing endless unlimited sums into “national security”.  It’s nice that they complain ineffectually about Donald Trump on Twitter but that’s the extent of the alliance.

  15. 15.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kay:

    They’re still all salivating to get their greedy paws on Social Security and use it to pay for another round of tax cuts. They’d like nothing goddammned better than to means test Medicare while plowing endless unlimited sums into “national security”.

    Screwing over the old, white Republican base now and screwing over the young Democratic base later. It’s a winning combination! – for party destruction.

    (Yes, I know they don’t care as long as they can get their paws on all the cash.)

  16. 16.

    Kay

    @mrmoshpotato:

     

    Why do they still have a shred of credibility on budgets? It’s mystifying. Republicans at the federal level haven’t balanced a budget in some of these peoples adult lifetimes. Are they harkening back to fucking Eisenhower?

    It’s akin to their insistence that they’re somehow the civil rights party.  That was sixty years ago. Is he even 60 years old?

  17. 17.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kay:

    Why do they still have a shred of credibility on budgets?

    Because some tax dollars help non-white people? I don’t know. They have no credibility in reality. Whatever happened to Bill Clinton’s budget surplus by the way?)

  18. 18.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

     

    It’s nice that they complain ineffectually about Donald Trump on Twitter but that’s the extent of the alliance.

    I don’t think any jackals believe otherwise, but that doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy the circular firing squad.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    I love that Sondland rushed back to work after the third revision of his sworn testimony, presumably to insert himself into another couple of sleazy Trump schemes in various countries.

    Is he currently involved in any crime-committing he’ll then lie about? We could save time and air fare by deposing him while he’s in town on this one. Just a rolling deposition. Apparently he requires constant supervision.

    There’s no possible way to get fired in that job, I guess. You buy it, you own it for X months. We’re stuck with this serial liar for the duration.  Can they restrict him to Brussels at least?  Just stop showing up for work, Sondland. Please. We insist.

  20. 20.

    ThresherK

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch: I have seen the channel Secular Talk pop up on my TubeTube suggestions and figured as such simply by his video titles. Yeah, way to ruin the word secular for the rest of us.

     

    Not sure what historic figure he reminds me of, Baghdad Bob or maybe someone in the Warsaw Pact or Axis sides.

  21. 21.

    Amir Khalid

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Deval Patrick should read the omens and cancel his day-late-and-a dollar-short run for president. At this late stage a lot of Democratic voters already have some other preferred candidate, and he doesn’t stand out enough to have much chance of winning them away.

  22. 22.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

     

    Oh, it isn’t jackals. It’s the Democrats who respond to him on Twitter. “Thank you, sir, for validating the Democratic Party with your stern-daddy scolding. We’ll aspire to be better Republicans”

     

    This doesn’t happen on the other side. There are no conservatives who plead for validation and acceptance from Lefties. It isn’t just him, either. Right leaning Democrats did the same with Andrew Sullivan. Sullivan would be on there pulling nonsense out of his ass on health care – a subject he knows nothing about – and half the online Democrats took his “concerns” seriously. Sullivan did an entire elaborate series where he monitored Sarah Palin’s pregnancy in this absolutely disgusting and invasive way like some kind of insane nosy neighbor and people were insisting it was about “transparency”.  He’d post photos of her pregnancy bump and they’d all speculate on whether she looked pregnant “enough”.

  23. 23.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch:

    I used that watch that asshole before the 2016 election. After a certain amount of Hillary-bashing and “PC!SJW” fear-mongering, I just gave up in disgust. Same with the Amazing Atheist back in 2013 wrt feminism. At a certain point, I just couldn’t ignore it anymore because I agreed with other things they said

  24. 24.

    satby

    ??? ads have shown up (not obtrusively, TYVM) and the first one is from Dumps’s PAC with a petition to make Adam Schiff resign.?

    I think I’ll click it a few dozen times just so they have to pay John.

  25. 25.

    ThresherK

    @Kay: As anything involving both Sullivan and Palin, I’ve totally forgotten all about that.

     

    Now all I want to see is Andrew Sullivan ‘shopped as Mrs Kravitz, the archetype of the nosy neighbor, from Bewitched. Get on it, internet!

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay:

     He does have a rather convenient relationship with the truth in that, he adheres to it when it’s convenient. I wonder how many more times he will need to modify his testimony after having his memory refreshed.

  27. 27.

    Shalimar

    @Kay: Trump says Sondland’s testimony was so great for him that the inquiry should be shut down immediately.  What cause could Trump possibly give for firing him?  In Foxworld, Sondland is apparently a hero now.

  29. 29.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    I’ve been fairly absent, mostly been tied up with a middle daughter returned home and continually getting kicked off of Twitter in multiple forms (generally related to having the audacity to be mean to Christers in a blunt form).  Anyway, current takes:

     

    A. Giuiliani

     

    1. Trump has always used an attorney as a fixer, a thug who doesn’t do legal work, but does have the fig leaf of privilege.  It has always turned out to be bad for the thug, but in the stupid world of local New  York game journalism, it’s just a “haha, our assholes are bigger than life and really famous” moment. Giuliani should be paying attention to how it went for Cohen, who also wasn’t a particularly great legal mind, but had the requisite bombast.

    2. Yesterday, I posted a clip of “Goodfellas” to Twitter, about how Paulie Cicero gave vague commands to top lieutenants so that the crimes were harder to track back. That’s how Trump uses Giuliani – as a consigliere, delivering his wishes, but as a shielding layer.

     

    3.  Yes, Giuliani really chased down Italian mobsters as US Attorney. He also was working with the vodka-swilling, pierogi-eating boys in Brighton Beach, who seemed to step right in to the vacant space the Mafia left behind.

     

    B. Trump Lies

     

    1. As a developer, he is accustomed by habit and lack of meaningful consequences to always be selling. Every project is the best, everything is proceeding ahead of schedule and under budget, I’m the best at X, no failure is ever my responsibility. Fluffing is second nature, and there’s always a fixer to send out to trash a victim if accountability looms.

     

    2. The constant lies are borne not of mental confusion or forgetfulness – the bloated mediocrity is hyper-reflexive with a clinically assessable level of narcissism. Everything he says to anyone at any time is tinted with “I need to make myself look better”.

     

    3. Related to this is his penchant for vengeance. Omarosa Marigault actually warned of this without realizing it in fall of 2016, when she proclaimed that “every knee will bow” (IIRC). He seeks vengeance even when the other side is in the right.

  30. 30.

    Anne Laurie

    @Kay:

    Of the Never Trumpers, I loathe Tom Nichols. His Party collapsed in a heap of corruption, xenophobia and grifterism and yet he scolds Democrats constantly.

     

    @Kay: I certainly wouldn’t buy a used car (candidate) from Nichols, but as long as he’s pointing his ire at his fellow Repubs, I trust his instincts for the jugular.

     

    ETA:  The new pop-up comment boxes are *not* my favorite part of the site revamp, sorry!

  31. 31.

    mrmoshpotato

    @satby:

    I think I’ll click it a few dozen times just so they have to pay John.

    I admire your courage. Please take as much recovery time as needed.

  32. 32.

    Kay

    @ThresherK:

     

    Just the ignorance and fake “science” of it should have repelled liberals. Repeat after me- Andrew Sullivan doesn’t know jack shit about pregnancy. It was fucking NEWS to him that women wear scarves and loose fitting clothing to play down a pregnancy at work. “VERY suspicious!”

    I mean honestly how dare he go on and on about whether or not Palin’s water broke on an airplane? Why doesn’t he mind his own fucking business?

  33. 33.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: l laugh every time I hear on the news that growth is at 2% and slowing. I was told by Trump supporters that the economy would grow at 4% or more once Trump was elected,  because the slow growth was all Obama’s fault. They really thought a huge,  unnecessary tax cut and getting rid of regulations would guarantee that for all time. I remind them of this every chance I get.

  35. 35.

    Kay

    @Anne Laurie:

     

    I actually prefer the GOP political operative never trumpers over the sanctimonious scolds. Them I will take advice from – they might offer us something useful. Basically, I only trust the never trumpers who swear a lot.

  36. 36.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

     

    It’s definitely slowed in the (formerly) hugely important rust belt diner areas. We’re already seeing auto loan repos and wage garnishment on health care bills. In Ohio, wage garnishment on health care bills means they’re under a lot of pressure because they let it go to judgment. If they have the money they make small payments to hold off the court action. They only start ignoring bills when they can’t make even a small payment. Those are the precursers to a wave of bankruptcy filings, so much so that we already have the part-timer assistant who does exclusively bankruptcy set up to pick up an additional  day after the first of the year.

  37. 37.

    SFAW

    @Kay:

    I don’t know if I’ve said it before — I think I have, but some days I can’t remember my own name, so to speak — but I deeply appreciate your comments. Always thoughtful, always on point, you’re never snide (unlike me, for example) — just someone I look forward to reading. Adding to that, all the work and activism you do to try to lead Ohio out of its darkness, and I am constantly in awe of you. And, no, I don’t think I’m being hyperbolic.

  41. 41.

    Karen S.

    @Kay: Agreed on all of this. I don’t mind the Never Trumpers weighing in, but when they get into “let me tell you Dems what you should do” mode is when I take whatever they say with a grain of salt. They should start their own party or fix the GOP instead of trying to remake the Democratic party in their own image.

  42. 42.

    Ken

    @Freemark:

    The bad news is we know that the top mob boss, Putin, outright owns at least seven Republican Senators on the jury.

    I just figured out the big twist ending the showrunners have planned: Putin will shiv Trump by summoning the seven back to Moscow during the Senate vote.

  43. 43.

    SFAW

    @Ken:

    I just figured out the big twist ending the showrunners have planned: Putin will shiv Trump by summoning the seven back to Moscow during the Senate vote.

    I’m usually pretty good about figuring out plot twists beforehand. But, damn, that was excellent.

     

    The Dems would still need another 10-plus to “defect” — I guess both meanings (as verbs, in case Steve in the WTFKW is awake this early) — but seven would be a good start.

  44. 44.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    “We followed the Presidents Orders”

     

    Good to see the NYT finally come clean on that.

  46. 46.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @mrmoshpotato:

    (Yes, I know they don’t care as long as they can get their paws on all the cash.)

     

    Or… it’s they are all a bunch of privileged people who never faced adversity in their life, now suddenly looking at their own deaths and lashing out the world to punish the rest of us for not making them immortal? They all are old white guys after all.

  47. 47.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Soprano2:  How in the hell can the economy grow at 4% with the unemployment this low? Who are they going to higher? Were I live companies are basically stealing employees from each other now.

  48. 48.

    SFAW

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Were I live companies are basically stealing employees from each other now.

    But on the plus side, out-of-work persons who only meet 90 or 95 percent of the requirements/qualification are ignored, because “the moon is in veeblefetzer.” Same as it ever was.

  49. 49.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @SFAW: It’s even more dumb than that, it’s because the applicant doesn’t know how to play the damn game with HR screening software so no human gets to look at the resume.

  52. 52.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    They aren’t trying to manage everyone’s money, the economy, they are trying to enrich themselves. They obviously give no shits about the country or the people in it other than the wealthy and being in that group. My feeling is that conservative politics is never, ever about anything unselfish and never has been. And Tom is just a prime example of that. Look how many never trumpers are still republicans. They haven’t woken up, they are the same, they just know better than to say and do the quiet parts out loud. trump knows nothing about shutting up. His personality and mental defects make him their worse choice for pulling off the con on society.

  53. 53.

    JGabriel

    @Anne Laurie: ETA: The new pop-up comment boxes are *not* my favorite part of the site revamp, sorry!

    I’m not loving them either, but I seem to be getting a little more accustomed to them as time goes on.

     

    Still prefer in page editing to a pop-up, though.

  54. 54.

    Miss Bianca

    @Kay: Tom Nichols was talking about Trump and Trumpers being a disgrace “to the party of Lincoln, Eisenhower, and Reagan”.

     

    REAGAN. Jesus Chicken-Fried Christ. I almost joined Twitter on the spot just so I could tweet-yell at him: “Are you fucking KIDDING me? Reagan led DIRECTLY to Trump, you asshole! The only differences between them is that Reagan could actually read a script, and the crimes of his administration came primarily from ideology rather than naked greed.”

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