Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

’Where will you hide, Roberts, the laws all being flat?’

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

75% of people clapping liked the show!

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you do not.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

White supremacy is terrorism.

This fight is for everything.

Fight for a just cause, love your fellow man, live a good life.

The Giant Orange Man Baby is having a bad day.

Disappointing to see gov. newsom with his finger to the wind.

We’re watching the self-immolation of the leading world power on a level unprecedented in human history.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

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Reader Interactions

268Comments

  2. 2.

    Elizabelle

    The clicking of the camera shutters.  The witnesses have returned.

     

    And — just for you, Zhena G — Nunes is up.  He is going to be talking about “FACTS.”

     

    First Q:  Does Holmes know ALEXANDRA CHALUPA?  NELLIE ORR?  BRUCE ORR?  GLENN SIMPSON?

  3. 3.

    Elizabelle

    CHRISTOPHER STEELE.

     

    I was kinda wondering what the howler monkeys were going to do, since Ms. Hill kinda blew their “actually, it was Ukraine that interfered in US elections” lie out of the water before the break.

  5. 5.

    Mike in NC

    O/T, per the Washington Post: “Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu indicted on charges of bribery, fraud, breach of trust.”

    Couldn’t have happened to a nicer scumbag.

  7. 7.

    Elizabelle

    @Leto:   I know.  Just coffee at this hour.  We will be caffeinated this afternoon.

     

    Nunes seemed kind of restrained, and lawyer Castor was very friendly and personable as he took over the questioning.  Although he is a gentle guy to begin with.  Who gets played …

  13. 13.

    Elizabelle

    The treatment of Ambassador Yovanovitch is really what got the State Department/national security staff’s backs up.

     

    Contrast that with all the truthtellers that came forward in the FBI.  Not.

  17. 17.

    Jeffro

    @Elizabelle: apparently the answer to your wondering is, “HOWL LOUDER!”

     

    They are just spectacular in their unfitness for office.  Or breathing, really.

  23. 23.

    Elizabelle

    Wait a minute — Nunes just accused the Dems of precisely what Giuliani and Trump are in a shitload of trouble over.  Will have to find the question, but change the names and …

     

    Nothing but projection with this moron.

  24. 24.

    Cheryl Rofer

  26. 26.

    Jay

    More than 105 members of Congress, 59 civil rights groups, 3 Democratic presidential candidates…and counting have demanded Stephen Miller’s removal since @Hatewatch released 900+ emails documenting how he injected white nationalism into govt policy.https://t.co/bnYDFmBC5J— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) November 21, 2019

    Compare and contrast,………

  28. 28.

    feebog

    Nunes is so bad at this.  Asking witnesses who they know, but failing to connect any dots in his wacko conspiracy theory .

  29. 29.

    Elizabelle

    @Cheryl Rofer:   I know.  I hope that hits Nunes and the GOP back so damn hard.

     

    It’s precisely the same charge, but it’s true for the Republicans and false for the Democrats.

  30. 30.

    Kent

    @Elizabelle: Although I’m no great fan of the FBI, I’m not sure that is a fair comparison.  None of these career diplomatic corps people came forward on their own until the whistleblower blew it all into the open and they found themselves subpoenaed.

  31. 31.

    Martin

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think Nunes knows that he lost that narrative. It’s now established that Trump asked for foreign help. Now it’s about normalizing that by saying that Dems did it first.

     

    The facts here aren’t in question. The only thing that is in question is whether or not the Senate will find an excuse that will allow them to keep Trump in office and not lose their Senate seat in 2020. That’s the only goal.

     

    Nunes isn’t the dumbest guy to pick for that job, but he’s close.

  32. 32.

    Elizabelle

    @Kent:   Good point.  I stand corrected.  I guess the early FBI stuff occurred before we had the Democrats in control of Congress.

  33. 33.

    Kent

    @Jeffro: What is it called in Bingo when you have to cover your whole card to win?  Maybe that’s what he’s up to…

     

    Blackout!   We are going for a Blackout!

  34. 34.

    Martin

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think the real risk to Nunes pursuing that line of questioning is that it gives Schiff more incentive to bring Parnas in for a hearing which likely implicates Nunes in this scheme.

  36. 36.

    JPL

    Nunes is going to get slayed when the democrats are back up.   Now asking about election meddling by Biden.

  39. 39.

    trollhattan

    Hippie judges rule for Trump anyway.

     

    President Donald Trump won’t have to release his tax returns to get on California’s 2020 primary ballot following a unanimous ruling from the state Supreme Court on Thursday that invalidated a new state law.

    Gov. Gavin Newsom signed Senate Bill 27 into law in July to compel presidential and gubernatorial candidates to release five years of tax returns to get on California’s primary ballot. Jessica Patterson, chairwoman of the Republican Party then sued the state.

    Under California’s constitution, the state must administer an “open presidential primary whereby the candidates on the ballot are those found by the secretary of state to be recognized candidates throughout the nation or throughout California.”

    The court ruled the added requirement for tax returns “is in conflict with the (state) constitution’s specification of an inclusive open presidential primary ballot.”

    Republicans arguing against California’s law claimed it would force “recognized candidates” off the ballot and discourage potential candidates from running for office, thus defying the constitution’s mandate for an “open” primary.

  40. 40.

    Yarrow

    @Martin:

     I think Nunes knows that he lost that narrative. It’s now established that Trump asked for foreign help. Now it’s about normalizing that by saying that Dems did it first.

    Agreed. They’re going to go with “everyone does it.”

  41. 41.

    zhena gogolia

    They’re now trying to undermine Sonderland’s credibility. And she’s helping. I’m not impressed with her, frankly.

  45. 45.

    Elizabelle

    A silver lining of this whole shambles:  I think these marvelous professional diplomats and officials are a real recruiting device for young people who are deciding on careers.  Of course, they’re also proof that you need a non-criminal presidential administration in place.  It’s kind of a twofer.

     

    It’s clear one can do some really interesting work serving one’s country.

     

    Has the Trump maladministration’s vendetta against the career professionals been the worst in the past 70 years or so?  Haven’t he and his flying monkeys derailed more careers than their counterparts in the McCarthy era??

  46. 46.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Hill: I was angry at Sondland for the wrong reason. I just realized yesterday that he was on a domestic political errand, reporting to Trump, Mulvaney, Pompeo, and we were on a national security mission, and the two had diverged. I told him this would all blow up, and here we are.

    Not an exact quote. Wow

  47. 47.

    Ella in New Mexico

    If you’re not following @chunkled on Twitter you’re missing some hilarious shit. This was AFTER lunch

  48. 48.

    Kent

    I gotta wonder what the GOP powerbrokers are gaming out at this point for 2020 and beyond.  Obviously Trump is completely out of control and actually undermining all kinds of policies that are actually in the national interest like the pullout of Kurdistan and the insane endless tariffs that are eviscerating farm country.

     

    Do they really want to see the Senate exonerate Trump and then have him completely off the leash for the next 4 years?  I can’t imagine so.  But every other path (resignation, or conviction in the Senate) leads to a leadership crisis and a weak short-term Pence administration that would likely get crushed in the 2020 elections.  Personally I think if there is maybe a 10% chance that Trump gets convicted in the Senate there is probably a 0.0001% chance that they would also convict Pence.

     

    If I’m a GOP Senator or say a Koch Brother, I think the way you thread the needle is sit Trump down in a secret meeting with the Senate leadership and tell him that the ONLY way he gets acquitted in the Senate is if he announces he is not running for re-election in 2020.  Let him pull a Palin (or Johnson) and just serve the next 12 months of his term doing a MAGA victory tour in red state America while they arrange the succession in a rational manner.   If Trump actually announced he was not running for reelection say in January that would completely take the winds out of the sails to convict him in the Senate and give all the cover to milquetoasts like Collins to vote for acquittal “for the good of the Country”

     

    That’s the best path out for the GOP at this point, I think.  And it would instantly change the conversation from Trump to whomever GOPer they would want to put forward as the new standard bearer.  Some normal business conservative like Romney or Kasich I would suspect who isn’t Trump-tainted.  Which, of course, means they won’t take it.

  49. 49.

    cain

    @Martin:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think the real risk to Nunes pursuing that line of questioning is that it gives Schiff more incentive to bring Parnas in for a hearing which likely implicates Nunes in this scheme.

    That would be delicious.

  54. 54.

    Jay

    It’s interesting, watching all the ReThugs, Deplorables, Evangelicals, Pundits and Talking Heads throwing their bodies into the line of fire to take a bullet for Putin.

  55. 55.

    wvng

    @Betty Cracker: Wasn’t that amazing. Hill making it clear that Sondland’s group was doing POLITICAL work, not policy.  And that political work was kept away from the policy people.

  57. 57.

    Martin

    @Kent It’s hard. And I say that from experience as I’m going through a whistleblower action myself. It’s hard to know when that line has been crossed, and it’s hard to know how to report it. In my case I’m walking a pretty fine line because the group I should be reporting it to has an incentive to not fully investigate. That’s not a ding on the people that work there, they’re very good, but they’re still acting in the best interest of one organization.

    The FBI is in a trickier spot. They’re in the business of wrongdoing, so how do you decide when your organization is incapable of dealing with a problem like this. In one respect you can’t see the whole picture because you’re too far removed from the whole organization – not many will know what the FBI director is doing or the head of DHS or the Atty General. Most career professionals are institutionalists, and most have a built-in bias that the institution works as intended. In a way, you have to have that or else you can’t really do your job – you become unmoored. So when you do decide that your institution is busted – first, that hurts. I’m much more disappointed that someone in my organization did what I found than I am worried about what the repercussions to me might be. And then once you’ve determined the institution is busted, you can’t report the problem to that institution – you’ve already deemed it to be busted. So you need to find a functional organization that is motivated to address this and then figure out how to report to them. First, that’s not always easy without breaking some policy or law. You need to be very careful there – so you can’t go running off to the NYTimes. And second, that organization needs to exist, and sometimes even the NYTimes doesn’t care because it doesn’t look like a story.

    I would be willing to bet a lot of career FBI folks seeing this stuff couldn’t identify a functional organization until Jan 2019 when Dems took over the House.

  61. 61.

    cain

    @Kent: If I’m a GOP Senator or say a Koch Brother, I think the way you thread the needle is sit Trump down in a secret meeting with the Senate leadership and tell him that the ONLY way he gets acquitted in the Senate is if he announces he is not running for re-election in 2020. Let him pull a Palin (or Johnson) and just serve the next 12 months of his term doing a MAGA victory tour in red state America while they arrange the succession in a rational manner. If Trump actually announced he was not running for reelection say in January that would completely take the winds out of the sails to convict him in the Senate and give all the cover to milquetoasts like Collins to vote for acquittal “for the good of the Country”

    That will never happen. They are fucked. Trump is not a normal actor and does not think as a politician. He’s used to be an authoritarian. He will instead tell them that they better acquit him or things will go bad for him. Even better, Russians if they actually have something on them will also push the same narrative.

  62. 62.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Ella in New Mexico: Trying to repost the broken link in your post. Let’s see if this works.

    do you know where I can find nudes#DevinNudes pic.twitter.com/jgD5f3jqQA
    — ᑕᕼᑌᑎK (@chunkled) November 21, 2019

    Yep. And not only that, I managed to type quote outside a blockquote in Visual mode, an operation which was defeating me the last couple days.

    I think you pasted your link in Visual mode, which made them show up as text instead of as HTML tags.

  63. 63.

    zhena gogolia

    I take back what I said about her up above! She’s making Nunes and Castor look like such doofuses (which they already did, but still).

  64. 64.

    Martin

    @trollhattan: Honestly, I think that’s the right decision. Granted, I voted for it, more out of curiosity, but holy shit if the states that  are gerrymandering the fuck out of things decided to put the equivalent of a literacy test to qualify for the ballot, it would be very bad for Dems.

     

    It serves as a statement of principle from California voters, but I think Dems would quickly come to regret if it was used nationally.

  66. 66.

    Mnemosyne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

     

    It’s only improper if you’re not the president. Duh! ?

     

    Apparently Nunes’s parents never had the crucial “I don’t care who started it, you’re not allowed to hit your brother/sister” conversation with him.

  67. 67.

    bemused

    @Cheryl Rofer:

     

    Jennifer Rubin said, “On a bad day Fiona Hill’s IQ is higher than that of the House R’s collectively”.

     

    Same goes for morals, character and patriotism.

  68. 68.

    trollhattan

    @Kent:

    Sounds a little like a Grisham novel, but not impossible I guess. My main question is whether there’s anybody in the U.S. with the ability to redirect Trump? (Besides Ivanka, I mean.) We have a smouldering heap of folks who have tried.

  69. 69.

    Elizabelle

    Adam Schiff warning the witnesses that sometimes the members get it wrong.

     

    LOL.  That’s a bite for the evening news.

  71. 71.

    Mandalay

    A reminder to Republicans: Do not even think about messing with Fiona Hill. She will fuck you up.

  73. 73.

    japa21

    @Martin: Curious, why do you think that would be bad for Dems.  Do you really think Dem candidates are more illiterate than GOP candidates.

  76. 76.

    Martin

    @Elizabelle: As one of those professionals in a much more dull job, this is more demoralizing than I can put in words. I genuinely find the Russians and North Koreans and ISIS to be less of a threat than guys like Nunes and Jordan. There’s not really much those outside actors can do to tear down the nations professional infrastructure, but Nunes and Jordan are on the inside and have the keys. They do it very efficiently.

  77. 77.

    Jay

    @Kent:

     

    all current evidence is that there are two ReThug positions,

     

    – doubling down on Dolt45,

     

    – opening up an arms length space, ( Koch’s) between themselves and elected ReThugs, but not on policy.

     

    the ReThugs, ( except the never Trumpers) have elected to eternally tie their fates to Dolt 45.

     

    they did the same thing with Dubya Dubya Me Too, only to pretend he never existed once out of office.

  78. 78.

    Kent

    @trollhattan: Oh, I actually agree.  I think he is going to burn the place down around him.   I’m just trying to imagine what would be the actual best course out for them at this point.  Not suggesting they would actually take it.

  79. 79.

    jonas

    I didn’t know that Fusion GPS and Steele were working on digging up dirt on Trump so that President Clinton would release military aid to…well, whatever country she had corruptly embargoed it for, I guess. It was a terribly complicated conspiracy.

  80. 80.

    Jeffro

    @Kent: I don’t think they’re gaming out jack squat.  They’re just trying to hold on and hope that when it blows up, they’re still left with some semblance of a party and a future.

     

    And it was always going to blow up.

     

    If anything, the GOP should just bank on Americans’ fabulously short attention spans.  Republican candidates in 2024, 2028 at the latest will be able to say with straight faces, “oh come ON, Democrats – it wasn’t all that bad/corrupt/treasonous back in 2019!” And over half the country will believe them.

  81. 81.

    Martin

    @cain: That’s all true, but it also overlooks the very real problem that Trump is who the GOP voters want. The GOP has spent the last 40 years turning their voters feral and now they can’t control them. They’re fucked either way. It’s not like Romney would do any better than Trump in 2020.

  83. 83.

    Elizabelle

    This is as good as a novel.  And Ms. Hill is so descriptive.  All those guys, hanging out in a corridor  …

     

    She does not waste or mince words.

    Fiona Hill for debates moderator!  She is the anti-Rachel Maddow in terms of verbosity.

  86. 86.

    Elizabelle

    That fucker Nunes.  Complaining segment was 8 minutes.

    Schiff:  I don’t cut off a witness in the midst of an answer.  (*Thwack*!)

    And now Jordan is up, shouting.

  88. 88.

    West of the Rockies

    @cain:

     

    Plus, Trump must be afraid of post-presidency convictions.  I don’t think he’d take one for the team even if it might benefit him.

  89. 89.

    Betty Cracker

    I’m not muting Jordan for a change in hopes of hearing Hill verbally curb-stomp his stupid ass.

  90. 90.

    Aleta

    Can’t help but prepare myself for coming attacks on Fiona Hill.

    In her intro she brought up class “socialism ↓↓”    Now she mentions  distorted attitudes toward women’s input—she’s obviously biased  : )  Repeatedly correcting GOP counsel confirms it.  And now she’s all pro-immigrant.

     

    Seriously I thought her moving introduction of herself was also clever, anticipating those who will question her integrity.

  92. 92.

    James E Powell

    @cain:

     

    That will never happen. They are fucked. Trump is not a normal actor and does not think as a politician.

     

    Also too the Republican base would never stand for it. They are ignorant, hateful bigots and Trump is their champion. Turn on him, they will turn on  you. Even if they got Trump to go along with, even if they had an excuse like his health, they would never believe it.

  93. 93.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Gym Jordan. Holy fuck, he is completely unhinged. (But Holmes’ face during that was a study.)

  94. 94.

    Kent

    @Jeffro:

     

    I think you are wrong.   Unless I miss my guess, there are GOP power brokers as well as Senators and other party officials talking about this topic non-stop in country club back rooms all over the country and brainstorming paths forward.  With lots and lots of expensive Scotch and Bourbon being poured.  But, unfortunately for them, they are stuck with Trump and he is not one to be directed anywhere by anyone.  I expect they are gaming out 100 different paths forward and they all end up back with Trump being Trump and fucking them all up.

  95. 95.

    BretH

    Saw him do this yesterday, opens his questioning with an asshole half-question making the witness ask what it is about.

     

    Mr. Jordan…

     

    “Why didn’t he talk about it???!!!!???”

     

    Holmes: “About what?”

     

    Jordan: verbal diarrhea

     

    Jim Jordan needs someone to stuff a jock strap in his mouth.

  97. 97.

    cain

    He’s trying to rattle the witness. It’s not going to work. I can’t wait he starts on Hill. She’s going to kick his ass.

  99. 99.

    PaulWartenberg

    trump won’t resign, trump CAN’T resign.

    every con job he’s got running, every source of income he’s got now is tied into his being the President Loser of the Popular Vote. And even then he’s losing money on properties that most people – aside from the crooks – are avoiding like the plague (thanks, bed bugs!).

     

    Even WITH the criminal charges trump is likely facing down the road, the second trump is out the Oval Office the values of all his properties drop like anvils. the only thing he can do is stay in office (hence his ominous noises about ignoring the two-term limit).

     

    We can’t expect the Republicans to do the right thing here. We have to ask the Americans voters to do the right thing.

  100. 100.

    Martin

    @japa21: Because CA is putting up an (arguably) arbitrary standard to make the ballot. Why couldn’t Alabama require that  candidates have a concealed carry permit, or have never donated to Planned Parenthood, or whatever.

     

    Releasing your returns shouldn’t be controversial, but the point is that it’s an additional standard, that could be any standard really. My argument isn’t that Dem voters are less literate, by argument is that Dem legislatures are less ruthless. Alabama won’t limit it to tax returns, they’ll look for the hardest standard for a Dem candidate to meet – they may even target specific Dem candidates (which arguably California did with Trump).

     

    This is like gerrymandering, Dems can wield it at power 2 or 3 to our benefit but GOPs will wield it at 11.

  102. 102.

    Elizabelle

    LOL.  Holmes notices he has 4 seconds left on the clock.

     

    Schiff:  you may answer …. Mr. Jordan, please do not interrupt the witness any further …  Mr. Jordan, please do not interrupt … Mr. Jordan — please.  Mr. Jordan, you will allow the witness to answer  ….  Mr. Jordan, Mr. Jordan, Mr. Jordan, you may not like the witness’s answer …

     

    =====

     

    All this rudeness and idiocy by the GOP howler monkeys.  I think the DNC etc should string together all the rudeness — just tone of voice and hyperspeed — into a commercial, with maybe the Blue Danube Waltz underneath.

     

    Are these the congresspeople you deserve?

  103. 103.

    Jay

    CSPAN CALLER: "Howdy. I just want to apologize first & foremost for all the morons on the calls earlier, especially from Alabama. Secondly, I just want to say impeach the fucker. Have a great day!"CSPAN HOST: "That's it for phone calls right now." ? pic.twitter.com/qPfACW2AfY— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) November 21, 2019

  104. 104.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Aww gosh, what a darned shame, that mean old clock ran out before Gym Jordan could get around to questioning Dr. Hill.

    (He must be terrified of her. And rightly so.)

  105. 105.

    dmsilev

    Washington Post: Bloomberg has officially filed paperwork to become a D Presidential candidate.

     

    Not a surprise but still an annoyance. I doubt he’ll go very far though. Not this late in the game.

  107. 107.

    japa21

    @Martin: I agree with you about CA. I was just wondering why you used a literacy test as your example of something that would be bad for Dems.

     

    We actually are in agreement on the basic issue.

  109. 109.

    Jay

    @PaulWartenberg:

    And even then he’s losing money on properties that most people – aside from the crooks – are avoiding like because of the plague.

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate,…..

  114. 114.

    cain

    @Martin:

    @cain: That’s all true, but it also overlooks the very real problem that Trump is who the GOP voters want. The GOP has spent the last 40 years turning their voters feral and now they can’t control them. They’re fucked either way. It’s not like Romney would do any better than Trump in 2020.

    But in turn Republican politicians have also turned feral because the politicians that are successful are of the Trump/Evangelical win. So there are no more moderates and it will continue to get worse. These people do not believe in any of the things that make our country great. Feral is a great word for who they are.

  116. 116.

    Elizabelle

    Ms. Hill really protects Bolton and Trump, in some ways.  And the terrible things other governments said about Trump:  yes, they might have been hurtful.  But were they inaccurate?  Were they not factual?

  118. 118.

    trollhattan

    @Kent:

    The topic has me revisiting the question of what the Republican inner sanctum really thinks about their present situation and what their 2020 odds are. They’ve harvested their tax gifts, their robot judges, their ruination of uncounted federal departments, their privatization of federal resources, their slammed borders, their kiddie prisons. What’s really left, other than continuing same?

    Finally, do they truly believe Trump can be reelected? Because I think they’d conjure “an unfortunate accident” to swap him for anybody else if their internal polling suggests he’s doomed.

  119. 119.

    West of the Rockies

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    That’s all he’s got left.  You can only sigh and compress your lips so often.  After a time, his signature move (staring over his glasses and smirking) loses its impact.

  121. 121.

    Another Scott

    @Martin:

    it also overlooks the very real problem that Trump is who the GOP voters want.

    I think that’s too strong. Even with the ‘weak’ field, he didn’t win the nomination overwhelmingly. 44.9% of the votes, 58.3% of the delegates.

    Lots of GOP people didn’t want him, but they refused to do the work necessary to prevent him from winning the nomination.

    Now there’s rallying around him because of the impeachment stuff, but I bet a lot of GOP voters will be relieved when he’s gone.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  123. 123.

    John Revolta

    @Cheryl Rofer: @Martin: Parnas is ready to talk. His lawyer says

     

    “President Trump’s recent and regrettable disavowal of Mr. Parnas has caused him to rethink his involvement and the true reasons for his having been recruited to participate in the President’s activities. Mr. Parnas is prepared to testify completely and accurately about his involvement in the President and Rudy Giuliani’s quid pro quo demands of Ukraine.”

  124. 124.

    OGLiberal

    @Jay: Didn’t Van Jones have to resign like the day before he did because he stupidly signed some truther-like petition.  Meanwhile, White House Advisor Alex Jones is the king truther.

  126. 126.

    Kent

    @trollhattan: Well, they never actually killed Obamacare.  So there’s that.  And the social safety net of social security and medicare is still standing.   So don’t think they are actually finished.

  128. 128.

    Betty Cracker

    @Elizabelle: I don’t think Hill has an agenda, but IMO, that part of her testimony was devastating for Republicans because she pointed out that politicians and foreign service people all over the world dragged Trump, but the policy changes happened in Ukraine.

  129. 129.

    germy

    BLACK SEA—Relaxing on the luxury ship after having gotten away with the greatest scheme in U.S. history scot-free, the Democratic National Committee server was reportedly celebrating its escape from justice Thursday while surrounded by bikini-clad women on a yacht in the Black Sea. The criminal computer system that was solely responsible for fabricating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was reportedly chuckling to itself, remembering how it had duped everyone by spending months under an assumed identity as a Pentium Pro in Morocco, as beautiful, scantily clad women fanned it with palm leaves and massaged its circuits with the finest cotton swabs. At press time, the grinning server had stood up from its beach chair to embrace its old friend Hillary Clinton as she stepped onto the deck.

    https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-server-celebrates-escape-from-u-s-jurisdiction-sur-1839984213

  130. 130.

    James E Powell

    @trollhattan:

     

    I don’t know what the internal polls show. The 538 averages have had him at 41 point something forever.

    Anecdotally, every low information voter I know (about fifteen people) is sure Trump will be re-elected because (paraphrasing & summarizing) nobody likes the Democrats because they’ve moved too far to the left.

  132. 132.

    Hoodie

    @Elizabelle: She’s way too clever for these yuks.  Notice how she buttered Sondland up before filleting him with the “domestic political errand” line.  She was just saying that it was understandable that Trump could be upset about what had been said about him by various world leaders, not that what they said wasn’t true.   There’s a difference about some official publicly opining about Trump and a foreign government surreptitiously targeting a US candidate using its intelligence apparatus, e.g., disseminating misinformation.

  137. 137.

    J R in WV

    Good news! Orthopedic surgeon recommended arthoscopic work on cartilage in the knee, not total replacement!!

     

    HURRAY!

  139. 139.

    Elizabelle

    Have to laugh.

     

    Turner of Ohio picks up on Rep. Sewell’s comments about professional women being smeared by Trump.

     

    He is sad how badly Elise Stefanik of this panel has been treated.

    Laughed out loud at that.  He said it.  He would have sounded so much better if he did not bring up Stefanik.

    They. Cannot. Help. Themselves.

  140. 140.

    Jay

    @trollhattan:

     

    the few sane ReThugs have realized that it’s not the ReThug party anymore, or the astroturf Tea Party, but instead the feral Deplorable/Nazi Party.

     

    going against Dubya Dubya Me Too or Yurtle would get them censured,

     

    going against Dolt 45 will get them killed.

     

    they can whinge all they want from the sidelines, cosplay at being Never Trumpers, but actually taking action, like Amash, that’s probably fatal.

  144. 144.

    trollhattan

    @Kent:

    Hmmm, yeah, the libertarians still want their cookies. Lucky us Rand Paul doesn’t have more influence. Let’s toss “privatize USPS and loot their pension” onto the prize heap.

  149. 149.

    Elizabelle

    Hill:  Amb Yovanovitch was even being assailed by members of the Trump family.

     

    Trump, Jr.

     

    And then she says she’s very sorry to hear about what has happened to Ms. Stefanik.

     

    Juicers:  remind me.  What HAS happened to Stefanik?

     

    Schiff warns again about members’ misrepresenting previous testimony.

  150. 150.

    Ohio Mom

    @Kent: I certainly hope no Republican strategists are reading your comment — President Kasich is a long-recurring nightmare of mine. I think it is a stronger possibility than people generally think, and I find the pathway you outlined chilling.

  152. 152.

    Leto

    I love that the Republicans are now trying to claim, “Oh no, of course we never said Russia was not to blame; we’re just saying that Ukraine was also involved!” JFC these people.

  155. 155.

    Soprano2

    OMG, Wenstrup is testifying now about lots of conspiracy theory crap.  Are they all doing this?

  156. 156.

    Another Scott

    @trollhattan: No time to check, but my understanding is that Donnie has been spending General Election money and the GOP messed up in writing the rules (indicating that there won’t be contests) months ago, so that he shouldn’t be doing that (and may be breaking campaign finance law in doing so).  So they’re scrambling, trying to shut down GOP primaries to make the issue moot.

     

    As always, it’s about Donnie and his dollars.

     

    Just my recollection – I haven’t checked the status recently.  IANAL.

     

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  157. 157.

    Miss Bianca

    So, what I’m getting is this: the Democrats are questioning the witnesses, and the Republicans are haranguing them. And that’s all that’s going to happen, right

     

    ETA: WTF, “Democrat coup”?

  158. 158.

    Elizabelle

    Is Wenstrup ever going to ask a question.  So far he’s just assailing the process.

     

    Oh gawd.  He brings up the shooting of Steve Scalise, And says it’s time for the Democrat coup to end.

  162. 162.

    Immanentize

    @Elizabelle: What HAS happened to Stefanik?

    Her opponent raised a million dollars since her foolishness. Hill, don’t kid yourself, is a Republican.

  166. 166.

    Kent

    @Ohio Mom: Oh, I guarantee they are talking this out nonstop on the golf courses and country club bars around the country.  And a whole lot of whisky is being poured in the process.   These are not stupid people.  Venal, yes.  Stupid, no.    Every potential path forward is being gamed out.  But of course they all circle back to Trump.

  169. 169.

    The Moar You Know

     

    If I’m a GOP Senator or say a Koch Brother, I think the way you thread the needle is sit Trump down in a secret meeting with the Senate leadership and tell him that the ONLY way he gets acquitted in the Senate is if he announces he is not running for re-election in 2020.  Let him pull a Palin (or Johnson) and just serve the next 12 months of his term doing a MAGA victory tour in red state America while they arrange the succession in a rational manner.   If Trump actually announced he was not running for reelection say in January that would completely take the winds out of the sails to convict him in the Senate and give all the cover to milquetoasts like Collins to vote for acquittal “for the good of the Country”

     

    That’s the best path out for the GOP at this point, I think.  And it would instantly change the conversation from Trump to whomever GOPer they would want to put forward as the new standard bearer.  Some normal business conservative like Romney or Kasich I would suspect who isn’t Trump-tainted.  Which, of course, means they won’t take it.

    @Kent: Let’s boil this down to soup:  without Trump they lose it all.  Presidency, Senate, House, Judiciary.

     

    They will stick with Trump.  They have no choice.

  171. 171.

    Elizabelle

    That’s ridiculous.  Praising Wenstrup for getting the importance of bringing Americans together, when he ended his comments with “Democrat coup.”

  172. 172.

    Jay

    @Soprano2:

     

    yup, when the laws are against you, yell.

     

    when the facts are against you, pound the table,

     

    when reality is against you, embrace conspiracy theory.

     

    who has “Dolt 45 couldn’t have done it because the world is flat and the cats have pushed everything off and over the sides, gotcha libtard!” on their Impeachment Bingo Card?

  173. 173.

    Immanentize

    Here’s my fantasy….  That at the end of the questioning of all witnesses, while the Republicans are still bleating about the whistleblower, it is revealed that Hill was the whistleblower.   And Schiff says, you already cross-examined the whistleblower….

  174. 174.

    OGLiberal

    @Martin: All the Trump fans I know – and some of them are actually smart people – will deny all facts with “deep state” and “fake news”.  They are impervious to facts that don’t align with their core belief system – and I actually don’t even know what that is…they seem as transactional as Trump.

     

    And half of them are crazy Christians who would banish a close family member who acted like Trump.

  178. 178.

    Soprano2

    The next Democrat should remark on how many hearings the Republicans held about Benghazi even after the Obama administration was cleared of any wrongdoing, and that it was done just to weaken Hillary Clinton.

  179. 179.

    Elizabelle

    Chris Stewart whinging about the Impeachapalooza.

    These palookas make me despair for America.  Talks about people who hate the president.

    Zero evidence of bribery or extortion.  Yeah, right.  What a dipshit.

     

    He talks about Schiff etc being dishonest.

    These are fuckers on parade.  I despise Chris Stewart.  He stuck out at the Mueller hearings too.  A howler among howler monkeys.

  180. 180.

    Elizabelle

    But the U.S. Senate is going to have honest leadership.  …. So we’ll finally be able to get to the truth.

    Chris Stewart.  He is to the Air Force as Mike Pompeo is to First in Class at West Point.

  181. 181.

    mrmoshpotato

    To hell with you Chris Stewart, this isn’t anything someone wants to do out of spite.  We’d like a President that actually upholds and defends the US Constitution like the office should.

  182. 182.

    Soprano2

    I read somewhere (maybe on this blog) that the reason the Republicans are so obsessed with revealing the whistleblower is that they all know who it is, and have a file on this person, so they are champing at the bit to use it against him/her.  It’s so silly, at this point it’s irrelevant who the whistleblower is.

  185. 185.

    trollhattan

    Good god, is Gator Betty C in the house? [warning FTF YNT link]

    Why We’re Impeaching Our Student Body President Over Trump Jr.

    The president’s son spoke at the University of Florida for a $50,000 fee. We dug deeper.
    [an excerpt–Michael Murphy is UF student body pres, and quite the baby Republican operative]
    In response to our impeachment inquiry, the student body president hired Daniel Nordby — the one-time general counsel of former Florida governor and current senator Rick Scott — as his attorney. Mr. Scott called Murphy’s pending impeachment “shameful.” On Nov. 14 the Florida G.O.P. publicized a page on their website where supporters can add their name to support Mr. Murphy (and, one click below that, “contribute to keep America great”). That same day, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted colorful language about the Murphy impeachment inquiry and added: “Enough of this nonsense.”
    After the Oct. 10 event, University of Florida alumna Mariana Castro submitted a public records request for all emails to and from Murphy concerning the invitation of the president’s son to campus. Her request returned an email thread from Caroline Wren, a veteran Republican fund-raiser. Ms. Wren works as a financial consultant for the Trump Victory Committee, a joint entity between the Trump 2020 re-election campaign and the Republican National Committee.
    On Sept. 11, Ms. Wren emailed Mr. Murphy, referencing a Fourth of July meeting with him at her house. She added that she “would like to bring Donald Trump Jr., Kimberly Guilfoyle and RNC Co-Chairman Tommy Hicks to the University of Florida.”
    When our local paper, the Independent Florida Alligator, called Ms. Wren for comment on Oct. 30, she first stated that she didn’t know who Murphy was — which for sure doesn’t raise any eyebrows at all. Ms. Wren later responded via email to The Alligator, acknowledging that she and Mr. Murphy met over the summer. She insisted she had been acting in her personal capacity and that she “mistakenly forgot to remove my Trump Victory signature.”

  188. 188.

    Geeno

    @japa21: I think he was referring to the literacy tests of the Jim Crow Era.  Illiterate whites would pass, college educated blacks would fail.  The tests were always administered by whites.

  190. 190.

    Soprano2

    It’s funny and revealing that the Republicans aren’t even trying to get any information from her; they’re using their time to preach to the choir, since they know there’s no way they can defend Trump.

  191. 191.

    Jay

    @Soprano2:

     

    that’s the rumour.

     

    the ugly reality is the whistleblower is Mike Pence, or Don Jr, or Guilfoil, or Bannon,……

     

    well, it’s irresponsible not to speculate,….

  195. 195.

    yellowdog

    @trollhattan: Of course Trump can, and probably will, be reelected. We have no election security! The GOP, or at least certain leading members of the party, know that the fix is in regarding the election.

  196. 196.

    trollhattan

    @Soprano2:

    You mean the Benghazi server with Whitewater running through it? I seem to recall a hearing or five about that. I do not particularly miss Trey Gowdy’s migrating hair.

     

    And oh, Darryl Issa is pondering running for congress. There otta be a law.

  197. 197.

    Elizabelle

    Stefanik up.  She says not a single Republican has said that Russia did not meddle in the election.  She’s making the point that it is the Democrats who have lied.

     

    But I think the actual point is the Republicans are saying that Ukrainians meddled in the election.

    And did Nunes sign off on Russia having interfered?  Did he?

     

    Stefanik wants to ask fact-based questions.  And she is so strident in her comments.

     

    One contribution to candidate Tedra. Coming up today.

  199. 199.

    Soprano2

    Well that was dumb but at least she asked questions.   I wish a Democrat would ask if the Javelins are deployed.

  200. 200.

    Ohio Mom

    @Ohio Mom: Sorry for that mangled comment. The new system doesn’t work for me when it comes to responding and editing. I’m going back to lurking for a while.

  202. 202.

    Elizabelle

    Stefanik was deplorable.  Utterly ugly.

     

    I wish she and Chris Stewart could be locked together in an airliner to Hell for months on end.

  203. 203.

    Martin

    @OGLiberal: I think we underestimate a little bit that by turning  on Trump, they’re more or less having to admit that Clinton would  have been a better choice, and there’s way too much water under that bridge for Republicans to admit that.

     

    Here I reference Obama’s question time comment that the GOP are painting themselves into a corner. Some of us were concerned about this aspect of Clinton as a candidate, but I at least didn’t consider that Republicans might be unable to step back from a bad GOP candidate because of it.

     

    Put another way, to a Republican voter, is Trump worse than what they believe Clinton did from decades of watching Fox? I think the answer is ‘no’.

  207. 207.

    Elizabelle

    @Ohio Mom:   My condolences on Wenstrup being your congresscritter.

     

    I have to say, even though Ohio has Sherrod Brown, I made a point to not spend one single penny in Ohio during a recent drive to the midwest.  I am just disgusted with what they send to Congress.

     

    I would have been OK spending in a blue city, but my route did not take me that way.  Fuck rural Ohio for sending this ugliness to fuck up our politics.

  208. 208.

    danielx

    @Kent:

     

    If I’m a GOP Senator or say a Koch Brother, I think the way you thread the needle is sit Trump down in a secret meeting with the Senate leadership and tell him that the ONLY way he gets acquitted in the Senate is if he announces he is not running for re-election in 2020.

    That might work with a rational person, but consider who we’re talking about here. I suspect Hair Furor’s response would be something along the lines of “you are not the boss of me” and “if I go down I’ll take every last one of you with me”…one way or anter.

  209. 209.

    Martin

    Whoa. Lev Parnas makes an appearance and an accusation against Nunes. Not sure if Schiff is okay with Swalwell going there, but we’re there.

  213. 213.

    Miss Bianca

    “Hi, I’m Will Hurd, and I’m going to pretend that I give a shit about the facts and Ukraine and OH, WHO THE HELL AM I KIDDING”

  214. 214.

    OGLiberal

    @Martin: These people I have referred to have no doubt – they are 100% certain – that Hillary/the Clintons – have murdered people.  It’s not even conjecture – they take it as a firmly established fact.   Vince Foster, Chris Stevens, Seth Rich – likely others – the Clintons murdered all of them.

     

    Again, these are not stupid people, just nuts. In addition to Fox and Alex Jones, their main source of news is some Falun Gong paper call Epoch Times.  When all your “facts” come from grifters and lunatics, I guess your “reality” is a bit – a lot – weird.

  215. 215.

    jimmiraybob

    I’ve missed everything until now and have only had the chance to see several clips of Hill’s and Holme’s testimony and exchanges with R attorney and Nunes.  Was it really as damning as it seems?

  218. 218.

    Kay

    Barak Ravid
    @BarakRavid
    · 1h
    BREAKING: Netanyahu says indictments against him are “an attempt for a coup”

  219. 219.

    OGLiberal

    @Miss Bianca: Hurd will likely be giving the Dems another House seat, thanks to him retiring.  These Trump “opponents” in Congress can’t stick around – they wus out and quit.  Amash is the exception but he had to switch parties. (plus, his district’s demos are changing so he may not have won as a Republican anyway)

  223. 223.

    Elizabelle

    I have to learn to look at these Intelligence Committee Republican howler monkeys as a gift.  They are one of nature’s best stress tests.

     

    Do not let them push your buttons.  Yes, they’re loud and they’re rude and they’re lying and they’re ugly.  But learn to just regard them dispassionately, like a lawyer or diplomat would.  They’re a show.

     

    Realize that every single one of them showed enough organization and personal interaction to get elected to Congress.  There are only 435 of those seats.

    And this is the best that they can do.  It’s all they can offer up.  Lie and shout about the process and partisanship.

    Because none of the facts are in their favor, and they have taken some real body blows in the course of testimony this week.

     

    The reason they are frightening is that their words can be accepted as truth by other citizens who will pass on the ugliness.  And vote.

     

    But don’t let them upset you.  They’re turbulence.  They’re a storm you have to get through.  Fly the plane.

  225. 225.

    danielx

    @Elizabelle:

    It would not surprise me if he had some sort of cardiac- or stroke-type event, put it that way.

     

    Not that I would wish that on anyone (he says piously).

  226. 226.

    catclub

    @Martin: keeping Trump in office is easy with the GOP senate.  … also getting re-elected is a little trickier.

     

    ETA:NOW the edit bar appears.

  227. 227.

    Elizabelle

    And now GOP critter is suggesting Adam Schiff has temperament problems?  Carry on, howler monkeys.

  228. 228.

    Elizabelle

    Conaway lets the cat out of the bag.  They decided on the break that they were going to smear Schiff and the unfair process.  Cuz they got nothing.  They’re just playing to FoxWorld.

  229. 229.

    catclub

    is whether or not the Senate will find an excuse that will allow them to keep Trump in office and not lose their Senate seat in 2020.

    keeping Trump in office is easy with the GOP senate. … and also getting re-elected is a little trickier.

  230. 230.

    mrmoshpotato

    @NotMax: Back to “overturning the election”?  Drink?

     

    Seriously, overturning the election would involve throwing out a lot of judges and at least the GOP tax scam.

  231. 231.

    Kay

    @mrmoshpotato:

     

    Lock him up. I’ve adopted a zero tolerance approach to white collar crime. I’m hoping it catches on.

     

    Too many repeat offenders. Too much recidivism. Send a message.

  232. 232.

    catclub

    @Elizabelle:

    I think the Democrats should hammer the GOP reps on which high ranking first person observers of the phone call they want to come testify.

    Mulvaney, Pompeo and Bolton jump to mind.

    How about Trump?

  234. 234.

    Baud

    @Elizabelle:

     

    And now GOP critter is suggesting Adam Schiff has temperament problems?

    I hear he also accepts foreign emoluments and sleeps with porn stars.

  236. 236.

    Elizabelle

    I really like Danny Heck, D-Wa.  Speaking on the big lie and the big truth.  It’s a patriotic speech.

     

    Pointing out, with examples, that Trump did this.  And Giuliani did this. And that our nation was founded on the rule of law.

     

    Balm for having had to put up with the howler monkeys.

     

    “So when the president DID IT, he put at risk the security of Ukraine … and he put our own national security at risk.”

     

    And that is the big truth.

  241. 241.

    Elizabelle

    I wonder if Ms. Hill is right that Steele’s dossier is “a rabbit hole.”  Because it would seem quite a bit of it has been confirmed.

    And we have a restrained Jim Jordan up.  Although he’s building up steam.  It’s about the Steele dossier.  And the FBI running amok …

  243. 243.

    Kay

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Exactly:

    Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr.’s criminal investigation of the Trump Organization is scrutinizing the actions of one of the president’s oldest and most trusted deputies, ProPublica has learned.

    This crook is like 1000 years old. How did he evade the long arm of the law so long? Stop him before he crimes again.

  245. 245.

    Elizabelle

    @catclub:   All of them!

     

    And Pompeo, whether he is Secretary of State or a private citizen by then.  We want to hear from Bolton and Pompeo and Mulvaney and Trump.

     

    And Parnas and Giuliani and whoever else is found under their rock.

     

    And yes, Jim Jordan.  The president is an imposter.  That’s the biggest horror of all.

  246. 246.

    cain

    Jim is misrepresenting himself quite a bit isn’t he? Especially about the nature of the dossier report.

    Jim is not healthy to anyone. I especially he wasn’t healthy for a certain sports team in Ohio.

  247. 247.

    mistermix loves your ass

    Another speech from Welch.  D’s have been really good so far to run a tight hearing with good questions but it’s breaking down.

  248. 248.

    cain

    Uh oh, Jim is raising his voice, I think he’s getting excited.. he’s probably stroking himself under the seat.

  250. 250.

    mistermix loves your ass

    @Elizabelle: If they are, they could just yield back their time.  But it’s just a reflex to use up your time however you can.  Let the R’s bloviate.

  251. 251.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Sorry to disappear. The power went out for about an hour in the thick and heavy snow we’re getting. The kitties are giving me a hard time, so I’m going to see if they really want to go out.

  252. 252.

    Elizabelle

    @mistermix loves your ass:   They’re reading in statements for the hearing record.

    These are statements of principle, and Welch was very clear with his example of the mayor not funding the police department unless the police chief agrees to investigate the mayor’s political opponent.

  253. 253.

    bluehill

    @Elizabelle: And to create fodder for facebook. Guess we have an idea what the secret meeting was about between Trump, Zuck and Thiel.

     

    Last Wednesday, Bill Taylor, the acting US ambassador to Ukraine, struggled to understand Castor’s questions about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election. “The run-up to the 2016 election — there are many facts that remain unresolved, agreed?” Castor said, trying to get the ambassador to agree the Democrats had done something suspicious in 2016.

    “I’m sorry. What’s the question?” Taylor replied.

    These exchanges may seem irrelevant, but they create content for the pro-Trump information machine, which is running parallel to the hearings. Nunes’ probes of Vindman were the perfect hook for right-wing outlets like Gateway Pundit to publish stories connecting the lieutenant colonel to the CIA officer and former National Security Council staffer whom pro-Trump media has accused of being the whistleblower. (BuzzFeed News does not know the identity of the whistleblower.) Those stories have gone viral, despite Facebook telling BuzzFeed News earlier this month that it would be blocking the CIA officer’s name. Since it was published on Monday, Gateway Pundit’s article had been shared a thousand times on the platform.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/republican-conspiracy-theory-counterprogramming

  255. 255.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Cheryl Rofer: God, you guys and even Albuquerque are getting hit hard today! All we have is cloudy skies, a bit of rain, wind. Not even that cold yet.

  256. 256.

    lgerard

    Someone should point out to Gym Jordan that Zelensky has not gotten the meeting he wanted.  At the White House, not some side conversation at a meeting in a third country.

     

    Who is the blonde always sitting behind Gym playing with her phone?  Does she have some function here?

  258. 258.

    Fleeting Expletive

    Nick Confessore has the receipt (via Chris Hayes’ twitter) for $95 grand that RNC paid to something called Booksamillion for DJTJr’s book just ahead of its release.  Tee hee.

    On another note, I feel pretty sure that Ukraine and other countries in the neighbohood are quite familiar with Russia’s habit of coercing denunciations of those  whom the rulers wish to depose or diminish.  Russian history is something Western democracies forget to their peril.  Not that I have any real depth of knowledge  on that subject.

    Duck and cover, the Russians will bomb us!  That’s a muscle memory for this boomer.

  259. 259.

    Jeffro

    @dmsilev: Yes – definitely too late for him and more importantly, he has almost no support within the party.  Or as a blessed ‘independent’ for that matter.

     

    If he really wanted to change the dynamic of the race, he’d enter the Republican primary with all his gazillions of dollars.  But no – he has to try and take on the not-really-all-that-far-left ‘left wing’ of the party.

  261. 261.

    Elizabelle

    @bluehill: Joseph Goebbels is smiling, somewhere in hell.  The reach and immediacy is more than he could have ever dreamed.

     

    It’s terrifying.  I think one of the reasons some of the Democrats were reading statements into the record was to lay out the importance of these hearings, and to lay down a marker.

  262. 262.

    Jeffro

    @danielx: Agreed.  He’s not about to leave willingly – he’s convinced in his own rat’s nest of a mind that he’s innocent, the Dems this and the Dems that, etc etc.

     

    He’s so guilty (and probably, so sick) that he knows he’ll have to ride this one all the way in.  To which I can only offer him a hearty, “stroke out, jerk”

  263. 263.

    wvng

    @Elizabelle: The Fox nation is the direct descendant of Goebbel’s propaganda machine, now made immeasurably more effective through the use of social media.  I don’t know how it can be ended, but until it is governance in our country will remain impossible.

  265. 265.

    James E Powell

    @Elizabelle:

     

    Ohio is my beloved home state. I’m an OSU graduate. I worked in the Ohio House when I was in college. I do that thing when they play Hang On Sloopy. I never thought white supremacy would come to dominate the state. I never thought the people I grew up with – we all swore we weren’t going to be like our parents – would turn out to be racist morons. On the rare occasions I go back – weddings, funerals – I cannot wait to leave. Makes me sad.

  266. 266.

    Elizabelle

    @James E Powell:   My sympathies, James.  That would be awful.

     

    I am so relieved that Virginia is trending bluer and bluer. I could not live here if not.  It is tragic how the country is pulling apart.  Does not have to be this way.

Comments are closed.