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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

I really should read my own blog.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Republicans don’t trust women.

In my day, never was longer.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

Come on, man.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

After roe, women are no longer free.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

We still have time to mess this up!

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

The revolution will be supervised.

The republican caucus is already covering themselves with something, and it’s not glory.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Two Idiots Back on the Take

Two Idiots Back on the Take

by $8 blue check mistermix|  November 26, 20191:47 pm| 184 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, Assholes

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Like a bad penny:

As President Trump’s White House battles impeachment, he turned to a familiar face last week: Mark Penn, one of President Bill Clinton’s top strategists.

Penn came to the Oval Office for more than an hour last Monday, three people familiar with the meeting said, and brought polling data and impeachment advice for the president. Penn reassured Trump that he wouldn’t be removed from office, according to people familiar with the meeting, and encouraged him to travel the country like Clinton did when he was fighting impeachment over 20 years ago, officials said.

Vice President Pence and counselor Kellyanne Conway were also present for the meeting, where Diet Cokes were served. Penn was escorted by Andrew Stein, a longtime Trump friend from New York who recently penned a Wall Street Journal op-ed calling for Nikki Haley to replace Pence on the ticket.

Just how much shit does Mike Pence have to eat on a given day? It’s like his appetizer, main course and dessert.

And then we have this gem:

Mike Bloomberg’s presidential pollster has ended his years-long representation of a Ukrainian oligarch briefly scrutinized by U.S. law enforcement during its investigation into Russian election-meddling.

Pollster and pundit Doug Schoen told The Daily Beast on Tuesday that he has signed on to work on the former New York mayor’s 2020 Democratic presidential bid. In anticipation of that role, he said, he terminated a contract with billionaire investor Victor Pinchuk.

Mike Bloomberg’s campaign is like the script for a film called “Dumb Money”. Also, I love this bit from Schoen’s Wikipedia bio:

Schoen currently serves on the Advisory Council of Represent.Us, a nonpartisan anti-corruption organization.

Because nothing says anti-corruption like working for a Ukranian oligarch.

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Previous Post: « Why Do The Investigations Seem To End Too Early?
Next Post: Tuesday Evening Open Thread: The Neverending Shower »

Reader Interactions

184Comments

  1. 1.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 1:54 pm

    Melania Trump was just booed for nearly a minute at an opioid event held in Baltimore.

    After being met by a chorus of boos, talking and sporadic booing continued during her address.

    Video: @EMN pic.twitter.com/UGx4MGYrqL

    — Travis Akers (@travisakers) November 26, 2019

  2. 2.

    mistermix loves your ass

    November 26, 2019 at 1:57 pm

    @germy: What have the Trumps ever done to Baltimore? /s

  3. 3.

    scav

    November 26, 2019 at 1:58 pm

    Trump revealed as an under-cover Clinton functionary! Is this finally what will give their o!-so-tender egos cover to cut and run?!

  4. 4.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 2:04 pm

    https://dailygazette.com/article/2019/11/26/third-parties-fears-realized-as-election-commission-tightens-screws

    Third parties’ fears realized as election commission tightens screws
    Slew of changes approved that will make it harder for political third parties to survive in New York

  5. 5.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    November 26, 2019 at 2:04 pm

    Excellent, now we can taunt our wingnut relatives at Thanksgiving Dinner “Oh, I see Trump hired Penn, who hid the bodies from Hillary’s murder spree”

  6. 6.

    guachi

    November 26, 2019 at 2:07 pm

    I came here to mention Melania getting booed and it’s right there in comment one.

  7. 7.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 26, 2019 at 2:07 pm

    New video explaining how there is evidence that Trump defrauded THOUSANDS of his own supporters.More details here: https://t.co/2de4xHOcCH https://t.co/5DplRN96Dm— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) November 26, 2019

  8. 8.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    @guachi:

    Full service blog.

  9. 9.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 26, 2019 at 2:08 pm

    @germy: She needs to stick to the red states.  Her husband insulted Baltimore so here we are.

  10. 10.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 26, 2019 at 2:11 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Penn is such scum.  He’ll defend anyone.  So now he’s defending Trump.

  11. 11.

    Origuy

    November 26, 2019 at 2:12 pm

    “Just how much shit does Mike Pence have to eat on a given day?”

    Hey, at least they give him Diet Coke to wash it down.

  12. 12.

    James E Powell

    November 26, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    @germy:

    I expect all the reporting on this will attack the people of Baltimore for their lack of civility.

  13. 13.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 2:17 pm

    @James E Powell:  Of course.

  14. 14.

    the Conster

    November 26, 2019 at 2:19 pm

    Mark Penn has an exclusive contract with The Hill to push his bullshit Harvard-Harris polls and his *opinons*.  He’s responsible for pushing that BERNIE MOST POPULAR POLITICIAN IN THE UNIVERSE crap (the one where Mike Pence came in 2nd) that the Berniebots clung to for 2 years.   He’s the f’ing worst

  15. 15.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 2:22 pm

    We’re missing the most important story of the day, though:

    ?UPDATE: Two defense officials have now contacted us to say Conan is *for sure they say* a BOY. One official said they triple checked.

    I guess the important thing here is that Conan, boy or girl, is a good dog who did excellent work with the US military.

    The end. https://t.co/bSQJifnMxx

    — Elizabeth McLaughlin (@Elizabeth_McLau) November 26, 2019

    Honest to Christ, they are all over the map on this.

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    November 26, 2019 at 2:23 pm

    @Origuy:

    “But he petted a dog!”

    #relatable

  17. 17.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 26, 2019 at 2:25 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I’m not a veterinarian or a professional dog handler, but I’ve always found it pretty easy to distinguish.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 2:29 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I mean, if it was a PARROT, I could understand the confusion…

  19. 19.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 2:29 pm

    One official said they triple checked.

    Dog probably thought “This is quite the hero’s welcome… First I get to meet the president, and now I just got three hand jobs!”

  20. 20.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

     I’m not a veterinarian or a professional dog handler, but I’ve always found it pretty easy to distinguish.

    The girl dogs have prettier eyes.

  21. 21.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 26, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    @germy: Only if they smile.

  22. 22.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    When the opposition unites BJP loses. Maharashtra will have a BJP free government!

    #आज_देवेंद्र_उद्या_नरेन्द्र (Today Devendra, Tomorrow Narendra)

     

    Devendra is the BJP chief minister who had to resign yesterday because he didn’t have the votes to survive a confidence test on the floor of the assembly.

    Narendra as in PM Modi.

    P.S. Not that anyone cares but me, I am happy that my ancestral state showed the goonda duo of Modi and Shah their place.

  23. 23.

    JaySinWA

    November 26, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Obviously the dog is gender fluid. The anti-LGBTQ activists will be up in arms.

  24. 24.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 26, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    where Diet Cokes were served.

    This is one of the most baffling non-sequiters in journalistic history.

     

    @schrodingers_cat:

    On the contrary.  I, and I suspect many others, would love an explanation of how this fits into overall Indian politics.

  25. 25.

    Quinerly

    November 26, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: ?

  26. 26.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 2:45 pm

    As compared to the 2013-2016 time period, the number of attacks timed before class commenced and after classes are finished for the day have increased 300% each.

    In total, nine of the 20 (45%) shootings occurred outside of the time period of normal school hours. That’s actually a significant percentage. Why is that number important?

    Very few schools practice lockdown/evacuation drills before or after school classes. The staff isn’t all present. Students aren’t in their classrooms. People are hanging out in hallways. An organized lockdown is very difficult at this time. That’s why shooters choose these times to attack. Schools need to practice lockdown/evacuation drills before classes commence to be fully prepared to respond to a realistic threat.

    https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/timing-school-shootings-to-get-the-highest-body-counts

  27. 27.

    scav

    November 26, 2019 at 2:45 pm

    @JaySinWA: That’s certainly my takeaway.

  28. 28.

    japa21

    November 26, 2019 at 2:46 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

     

    @Frankensteinbeck:

     

    Agreed. I noticed SC’s comments earlier and would like more info.

  29. 29.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 2:47 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Seconding Frankensteinbeck’s comment/request.

  30. 30.

    Splitting Image

    November 26, 2019 at 2:48 pm

    Penn reassured Trump that he wouldn’t be removed from office.

     

    So there is not only hope, but a virtual certainty.

  31. 31.

    Quicksand

    November 26, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Don’t believe it – it’s all just official cover for Pence having touched a female who isn’t his wife.

  32. 32.

    jonas

    November 26, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    I strongly encourage Trump to listen carefully to Mark Penn throughout the 2020 campaign and do exactly what he says. He’s always spot on. *stiffled giggle

  33. 33.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    On Nov. 23, Turkish/FSA forces attacked Ein Issa, #Syria. The refugee camp is burning. We’re giving medical help as we can and will report more tomorrow. pic.twitter.com/0KI7ZT7qeH— David Eubank (@DaveEubankFBR) November 24, 2019

  34. 34.

    randy khan

    November 26, 2019 at 2:49 pm

    I would like Trump to follow Penn’s advice and focus all of his appearances on impeachment.  24/7 impeachment from now until Election Day.

  35. 35.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Well thank dog that’s cleared up!

     

    How is this even a mystery?  Does this hero dog not pee?

  36. 36.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 2:51 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    Baud!/Conan! 2020!: The less you know, the better.

  37. 37.

    RedDirtGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Sounds like a good thing!

  38. 38.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    where Diet Cokes were served.

    This is one of the most baffling non-sequiters in journalistic history.

    I thought so too!

     

    ETA – it’d make more sense to be talking about this military dog and then segue into Dump being Putin’s bitch.

  39. 39.

    Amir Khalid

    November 26, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Ddn’t TaMara get in trouble (with Facebook, if I’m not mistaken) recently for posting a photo of Bixby that made his maleness very, very apparent?

  40. 40.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    @japa21: @Frankensteinbeck: I will write about it. But the story has more twists than your average thriller!

  41. 41.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    Canadian tech firm AggregateIQ, which (covertly) created Cambridge Analytica's election software, broke privacy laws over Brexit, an investigation by federal and provincial watchdogs determined today. https://t.co/XJirQe4AT7— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) November 26, 2019

    "Fake news need not convince anyone, but merely muddy the waters to the point where voters give up in exasperation. This is when only the most committed get their chance to take control." Brilliant from @Carlsonsports @ArcDigi https://t.co/sGLuF4onHh— Bonny Brooks (@brooks_bonny) November 26, 2019

  42. 42.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    @RedDirtGirl: It is! I have to warn you that no one is a boy scout here but the 80 year old lion (Sharad Pawar) roared and beat Modi-Shah at their own game. Shah is Modi’s Rove who is now the Home Minister.

  43. 43.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 2:59 pm

    @Jay: Or, and hear me out, they could fucking regulate guns!

  44. 44.

    Amir Khalid

    November 26, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Re the mention of Diet Cokes, perhaps it was to remind the reader that Trump called the meeting, i.e. that sometimes he does take a break from goofing off all day in the Residence.

  45. 45.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 3:04 pm

    Trump’s new appointee to the federal panel that resolves disputes between federal workers unions and the government is a guy from a law firm that specializes in suing public unions. https://t.co/Y2HOEthI81— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) November 26, 2019

    Everywhere, high and low, the befouling of the US Government continues.

  46. 46.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 3:04 pm

    @Baud:

    Baud!/Conan! 2020!: The less you know, the better.

    Less we know because you wouldn’t be on the news every damned day due to being busy running a competent government?

  47. 47.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 3:11 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

     

    Let’s go with that.

  48. 48.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 3:11 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

     

    I didn’t post it as a recommendation that Active Shooter Drills take place before and after school as well,

     

    I posted it to note that actively or organically, school shooters are adapting and evolving their tactics to compensate for Schools and Law Enforcement’s countermeasures.

     

    of course, the one countermeasure they would have a very hard time adapting to is getting rid of all the guns and ammo.

  49. 49.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 3:14 pm

    In history, "whenever nationalism went bad there were intellectuals who tried to smooth it over, to make it more palatable, to justify supporting it despite the problems."https://t.co/zrKmJpgw61— Nicholas Grossman (@NGrossman81) November 26, 2019

  50. 50.

    Aleta

    November 26, 2019 at 3:16 pm

    The event was rushed, so maybe the dog wasn’t even ‘Conan’ ?

  51. 51.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 3:19 pm

    Holy hell. Kentucky’s Republican Gov. Matt Bevin just pardoned a man convicted in 2001 of raping his 6 year-old stepdaughter. The man was found guilty of 3 counts of sodomy in the first degree and 2 counts of sexual abuse in the first degree. Bevin commuted his life sentence. pic.twitter.com/2Ylesjq2gO— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) November 26, 2019

    the back story is even more astounding: https://t.co/2qlEcwZfb6— Chris O'Brien (@obrien) November 26, 2019

  52. 52.

    Aleta

    November 26, 2019 at 3:20 pm

    “Just bring  us a German Shepard that won’t bite him.”

    “ANY dog that looks like this,  we need it NOW”

  53. 53.

    Aleta

    November 26, 2019 at 3:23 pm

    @Aleta Belgian Malinois not GS 

  54. 54.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 3:26 pm

    @Aleta:

     

    “Just bring  us a German Shepard that won’t bite him.”

    “There are none, sir. Tell them to keep the Veep between the dog and POTUS at ALL TIMES, or our ass is grass.”

  55. 55.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 3:27 pm

    Not a fan of this new Q poll.

    New Q-poll has good news for Biden/Buttigieg, terrible news for Warren, flat for others.

    Biden: 24% (+3)⁰
    Buttigieg: 16% (+6)
    Warren: 14% (-14) ⁰
    ⁰Sanders: 13% (-2)⁰
    Harris: 3% (-2) ⁰
    Klobuchar: 3% (-)⁰
    Yang: 2% (+1)⁰
    Booker: 2% (+1)
    ⁰Castro: 2% (+1)⁰
    Gabbard: 1% (-)

    — Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) November 26, 2019

    Except the part about Gabbard being at 1%.

  56. 56.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 3:28 pm

    Russia invaded Ukraine, stole Crimea, and continues to murder Ukrainians in Putin’s war on its soilTucker Carlson announces he’s rooting for Russia.Team Putin-Trump in action… https://t.co/CDCNfDCrVO— Alexandra Chalupa (@AlexandraChalup) November 26, 2019

    Shouldn’t Faux News have to register by now as an Agent/Lobbiest for a Foreign Government like their allies RT and Spudnik?

  57. 57.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 3:29 pm

    @Jay:

    Makes me wonder what drumpf will get up to when he learns he’s lost.

  58. 58.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 3:30 pm

    @Jay:  He walked it back.  He says he was joking.

  59. 59.

    Searcher

    November 26, 2019 at 3:30 pm

    @germy: Yes, please.

    New York’s third-party system is insane.  I’d personally be happy to just get rid of multi-lining, so that people stop spinning up shell parties to give themselves another ballot line, but anything that kills off half of them is fine with me.

  60. 60.

    sdhays

    November 26, 2019 at 3:30 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: Product placement is a real thing.

  61. 61.

    Calouste

    November 26, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Trump’s razor says that the dog that was in the photo op wasn’t the dog that was involved in the raid, because the shitgibbon was scared.

  62. 62.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    -14??? That’s nuts.  Maybe it’s an outlier.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    -14??? That’s nuts. Maybe it’s an outlier.

  64. 64.

    Kent

    November 26, 2019 at 3:33 pm

    Is Jay a bot who just takes random off-topic twitter posts and recycles them here?

  65. 65.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    @Calouste: That would explain it, and he did say weird things about the dog during the event, such as that he thought a muzzle would be a good idea but that it might make the dog “even more violent.” It wouldn’t be surprising if he was too chickenshit to meet the actual raid dog.

  66. 66.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 26, 2019 at 3:35 pm

    @germy: Watch the segment. He wasn’t.

  67. 67.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 3:36 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

     

    As you know by now, Republicans are the sole arbiters of their intent.

  68. 68.

    Aleta

    November 26, 2019 at 3:37 pm

    @Baud:

    “Sir, this dog  loves your ass.”

    “A muzzle!  Get a muzzle!”

    “No time sir. We need that story out NOW.”

  69. 69.

    germy

    November 26, 2019 at 3:37 pm

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Watch the segment. He wasn’t.

    I know.  But he’s insisting he was joking.  Doesn’t drumpf do that, too?  “I was joking!  Can’t take a joke??”

  70. 70.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 26, 2019 at 3:37 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve tried to be pretty careful about what I have said about the various candidates because anyone of them could end up on top and I am voting D.  I am starting to doubt that Harris (despite my enthusiasm for her) is going to be the one.  The  Biden/Buttigieg haters may have some crow to eat or they may go PUMA.  Fuck these fucking interesting times.

  71. 71.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 26, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    @Kent: No, but the end result is the same.

  72. 72.

    NCSteve

    November 26, 2019 at 3:41 pm

    For the first time, I’m feeling optimistic Trump will be convicted in the Senate

  73. 73.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    @Baud: Could be an outlier, or it could be the M4A effect. M4A is popular with Democrats but not so much with Democratic leaning independents (included in the poll). In my most pessimistic moments, I suspect Biden will win the nomination and face-plant in the general. Maybe not enough for Trump to get reelected but sufficient to make what should be a blow-out a squeaker and hamstring any post-Trump progress.

  74. 74.

    Aleta

    November 26, 2019 at 3:44 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I thought I remembered a story weeks ago that reported the actual dog is female.  (Also remember wondering if Trump picked the wrong dog when he broadcast the name. )

  75. 75.

    scav

    November 26, 2019 at 3:44 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe he was confusing the dog with that Seal he pardoned (as he likes him some berserker military violence machines).

  76. 76.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 3:45 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Agreed.

     

    @NCSteve: Why?

  77. 77.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 3:46 pm

    @Kent:

     

    A) all threads are “open threads” unless that tradition was changed with the upgrade,

     

    B) there is a shitload more going on in the US and the World than just shitgibbon, but like most of the US Media, this place has become obsessed with Trump. More words have been written here on the sex of Conan, than what has been happening in Hong Kong, or with LGTBQ rights, or Immigration and Refugees.

  78. 78.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    November 26, 2019 at 3:50 pm

    Doug Schoen

     

    BWHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHH

     

    For those of you unfamiliar, he’s a Fox News “Democrat”.   He’s also an idiot, no different than fellow idiot pollsters Mark Penn and Pat Caddell

  79. 79.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 3:53 pm

    You cannot make this sh*t up.After being presented with the fact that a Pentagon official just told @ABC that Conan is FEMALE, a White House official tells us that the WH is still standing by its story that Conan is MALE (as Trump said). The official would not go on the record. https://t.co/XR63R0SD1l— Terry Moran (@TerryMoran) November 26, 2019

    Once again, Occam’s Razor strikes true,………

  80. 80.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    @Jay: Trump is going to draw a dick on that dog with a Sharpie before this is all over, isn’t he?

  81. 81.

    Kent

    November 26, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: My evaluation of the election and the candidates isn’t issue-based or trying to figure out where candidates fit on a left-right spectrum.  I think that is almost entirely irrelevant to governing in post-Trump America.  I’m looking for the candidate with the chops and courage to root out Trumpism limb for limb in every branch of the government without mercy or hesitation.  I’ll give one example which can be multiplied 1000-fold across the entire government.

     

    Trump has appointed the most corporate bad-faith actors ever to the EPA and they have dismantled hundreds of Obama-era environmental regulations that were years in the making through endless consensus-reaching process, which is why most of them didn’t take effect until late in the Obama years.  They have done this through sheer unmitigated exertion of power and cutting process corners everywhere.  Dismantling advisory boards, ignoring science, ignoring community input.  Sometimes environmental groups have gotten some of it stopped in the courts.   But they can’t possibly block all of it.

     

    The next president needs to use the same level of ruthlessness to root this stuff out and reverse it.  Finding all the right bureaucratic knife-fighters in each agency who know how to get shit done.  And turning them loose.   The progressive versions of John Bolton.  Yes, they are out there.   I think Hillary Clinton is the they type of candidate who could have done that.  Of the current crop I think Warren, Harris, and maybe Klobuchar.  I don’t think Bernie or any of his people would even know how.  And both Buttigeig and Biden are too worried about consensus and appearances to really have the courage.  My fear with someone like Buttigeig is that he would get sucked into an Obama-esque search for consensus at every step of the way in every agency with every rule when there is frankly to consensus to be had when you are dealing with orcs.  He and his people would undertake some sort of 6-year collaborative process with dozens of veto points along the way to reverse every bad faith action by the Trump administration.  And in the end would only accomplish 10% of it.  You have to strike hard and viciously to get anything done.  In the EPA example, corporate polluters are never going to support Democrats and Democratic environmental objectives.  Don’t give them 6 years of process and gumming up the works trying to reach some sort of ephemeral consensus when they didn’t do the same when they were in power.  Just fucking roll back the Trump legacy with no mercy in every agency and branch of government.

     

    That’s pretty much all I expect out of the next president.   Maybe if we get a Dem Senate we might get one or two major pieces of legislation through as well.  Maybe something on immigration or taxes or health care or the environment.  Pick one or two.  The rest of the job of the next president will be to repair the executive branch.  I don’t think Biden, Sanders, or Buttigeig are up for that job.  I honestly think it’s going to take a woman with no fucks left to give to get that job done.

  82. 82.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 4:01 pm

    Whoa: new report finds that Indiana officials "quietly absolved Amazon of responsibility" for a warehouse worker's death in order to aid state's bid for HQ2. "They deleted every fine levied and accepted the company’s argument—that the worker was to blame." https://t.co/zKdAfZPs6G— Alec MacGillis (@AlecMacGillis) November 26, 2019

  83. 83.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    I have the same fear as you, but for all we know, he’ll end up beating Trump in a landslide.

    A lot of people aren’t like us.

  84. 84.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 4:05 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    yup, and Two Boobs and a Couch will claim it’s proof, and Tucker will root for the Russian dog,……

     

    MAGAt’s will go along,

     

    but in 6-10 months you will be able to repel MAGAt’s like Vampires vs. garlic with an uncapped Sharpie.

  85. 85.

    Aleta

    November 26, 2019 at 4:07 pm

    @Betty Cracker: too funny

  86. 86.

    JaySinWA

    November 26, 2019 at 4:11 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Surely on a picture of the dog. I doubt he could face the dog himself even if she was sedated.

  87. 87.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 4:14 pm

    @Jay: I get that.  I wasn’t yelling at you.  It just immediately pisses me off that someone coming to a school to commit mass murder is treated like a possible fire or possible tornado.

  88. 88.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 26, 2019 at 4:16 pm

    @Kent: I understand where you are coming from, but I am not sure that progressive version of John Bolton is a good thing.

    Part of what we need to restore is simply doing things the right way.  The process is as important as the substance.

  89. 89.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 4:16 pm

    @Baud: I wasn’t offering a cover for the Baud!/Conan mayhem. (Though mostly Baud!) :)

  90. 90.

    John Revolta

    November 26, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Dog’s gonna have to have surgery.

  91. 91.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I am nominating this as a rotating tag.  For real, with the form.

     Fuck these fucking interesting times.

    Officially nominated.

  92. 92.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    @Baud: That could totally happen too! A Biden candidacy wouldn’t excite young folks or lefties, but the former are unreliable voters and the latter are a minority within the party. I’d worry about how a Biden nomination would land with feminists, but Biden isn’t stupid — he’d probably pick someone appealing like Harris or Stacey Abrams as VP to bring them on board.

  93. 93.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 4:20 pm

    @Jay: Only one way to settle this – pissing contest.

  94. 94.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 26, 2019 at 4:21 pm

    @WaterGirl: I can die a contented man.

  95. 95.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:22 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Why can’t all the actual Democratic candidates learn to say:

    “I’ll be for whichever of these health plans that we can get through congress, which depends on the Democrats having the house and the senate, so PLEASE, let’s stop quibbling about details.”

  96. 96.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:24 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I scared my cat laughing out loud at that.

  97. 97.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:25 pm

    @Betty Cracker: @Aleta: I had to nominate that one as a rotating tag, too, once I got done laughing.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 4:26 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I would hope feminists wouldn’t think Biden is comparable to Trump, even if he’s disappointing as a general matter.

     

    @mrmoshpotato: Ah, the Balloon Juice way.

     

     

    @WaterGirl: Bernie 2016 is why.

  99. 99.

    Yutsano

    November 26, 2019 at 4:26 pm

    @WaterGirl:  Because it’s not the general election yet. The candidates are vying to be the standard bearer of the Democratic party. Once we have a candidate (which might not happen until the convention) then we can start discussing what we can get past the Mayhew formula of 218-60-1-5.

  100. 100.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:27 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Now we just have to get Cole to approve it. But with 3 fucks in a single sentence, I’d say it has a pretty good shot! :-)

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:29 pm

    @Yutsano: I apparently need to read more Mayhew. Or work on reading comprehension, one of the two.

    then we can start discussing what we can get past the Mayhew formula of 218-60-1-5.

  102. 102.

    TomatoQueen

    November 26, 2019 at 4:29 pm

    @WaterGirl: My last reply (to Kent) got eated with a 405 error, and it didn’t have a fuck in it. I’m disappointed.

     

    Pie filter works in IE yay.

  103. 103.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 4:30 pm

    @Kent:

     

    so, if you had read one of my off topic “bot tweets” earlier, you would have noted that Trump has appointed a rabid anti union person, to a Government position that you have never heard of, that has powers you never dreamed of, of f€cking over unionized Government employees.

  104. 104.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    November 26, 2019 at 4:32 pm

    @WaterGirl: Any successful legislation must have… 218 votes in the House, 50 votes in the Senate, 1 signature from the President, and be ruled Constitutional by 5 or more members of the Supreme Court.

  105. 105.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:32 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I just noticed that two of the 8 rotating tags that have been nominated are things you said.  I only nominated one of the two.  I think that might give you bragging rights.

  106. 106.

    M31

    November 26, 2019 at 4:33 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    yeah, and he’ll also pick Donald Trump to be his opponent

  107. 107.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 26, 2019 at 4:33 pm

    @WaterGirl: What is the other?

  108. 108.

    mrmoshpotato

    November 26, 2019 at 4:34 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Fuck these fucking interesting times.

    For ever and ever and ever and ever, Amen.

  109. 109.

    karensky

    November 26, 2019 at 4:34 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: ?

  110. 110.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    @TomatoQueen: That’s not good, were you typing something unusual or exotic, or did this appear to be random?  If it gave you the Cloudflare screen, there’s usually a number at the top or at the bottom that provides a clue as to what happened.  IF it’s at the bottom, it’s usually low enough that a scene capture doesn’t catch it, unless you intentionally capture the right spot.  Or you can copy the number and submit it through Site Feedback. That works too.

  111. 111.

    Emma

    November 26, 2019 at 4:38 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I just spit up my tea, dang it!

  112. 112.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:38 pm

    @TomatoQueen: Yay!  I have actually been surprised by home much DOES work in IE.  I really thought more people would be excited by the pie filter.  I should have gotten the high-end crystal ball.

  113. 113.

    Kent

    November 26, 2019 at 4:39 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @Kent: I understand where you are coming from, but I am not sure that progressive version of John Bolton is a good thing.

    Part of what we need to restore is simply doing things the right way.  The process is as important as the substance.

     

    I agree to a point.  But the reality is that we spent years and years of process and reaching consensus to achieve most of the actual achievements of the Obama Administration.  It was tough hard work and took years and I was a part of it in some narrow ways related to fisheries regulations.  And the Trump folks came in and just vandalized everything, pissed on it, and set it all on fire with no regard to any of the norms.  We can spend the next 6 years playing the sort of game you suggest which would mostly involve giving those same bad actors endless veto-points in the long struggle to get back to normalcy in government.  Or we can not worry about what the other side thinks and just get the job done.  They will never vote or support Dems anyway.

     

    That doesn’t mean we don’t follow all the process required by  law. You have to do that or face failure in the courts.   What I’m talking about is the sort of endless negotiating with one’s self and attempting to reach pointless consensus with bad actors on issues that should be non-negotiable.   Like whether corporations can poison our children with lead or wipe out endangered species for profit or drill in national parks.

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:40 pm

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Thank you!  I need to clean my glasses because I read that as 1.5, and I could not figure that one out!  I thought it was some fancy Mayhew thing!

  115. 115.

    TomatoQueen

    November 26, 2019 at 4:41 pm

    @WaterGirl: It appeared to be random, except that much earlier today another comment of mine never appeared at all, so maybe today isn’t my day. I’ll watch for that Cloudflare thing.

  116. 116.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:42 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Think of it like Cole’s new house – you walk in and find Walter, but then you fall through a hole in the front porch.

    An inspired choice, I thought.  Not sure if i have permission to say who nominated it.

  117. 117.

    John S.

    November 26, 2019 at 4:42 pm

    @Baud: I honestly don’t think we can win with Mayor Pete as the candidate.

  118. 118.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 26, 2019 at 4:42 pm

    @TomatoQueen: You know what you did.

  119. 119.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    @TomatoQueen: Definitely speak up if your comment doesn’t show up at all, after refreshes.  I’ll see if you landed in spam for some reason.

    edit: the sooner you speak up, the more likely it is that we can wade through the spam to find it.  we get an amazing amount of spam. most of it cyrillic, so I’m looking at you Gin & Tonic.  (totally not true!)

  120. 120.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 26, 2019 at 4:44 pm

    @WaterGirl: Cool.  I don’t need to know who nominated it.

  121. 121.

    TomatoQueen

    November 26, 2019 at 4:44 pm

    @WaterGirl: That’s a pie filter to be proud of, with many applause points, especially for the immediacy of it.

  122. 122.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 4:45 pm

    @John S.:

     

    Don’t know, but it may be a moot point.  I’m doubtful he will be able to surpass Biden, however, despite his current surge in the polls.

  123. 123.

    Dan B

    November 26, 2019 at 4:47 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Please get a trans flag for her/him so that he/she/they can be tossed out of the service.  Sorry Conan.   /s

     

    Sheesh the people who suck up to our demented president and make fools of themselves to save their careers.  We edge closer to civil unrest but ya gotta keep your job.

     

    Fortunately we are at my brother’s friends for T-day and not at the Koch relatives.

  124. 124.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:48 pm

    @TomatoQueen:  Nope, sorry, not in spam.

    I did find Handheld Electric Bidet, though, that was a treat. bye bye

  125. 125.

    jeffreyw

    November 26, 2019 at 4:49 pm

    Flight attendant: Is there a doctor on this flight?Dad: *nudging me* that should've been youMe: Not now DadDad: Not asking for a cinematographer to help, are they?Me: Dad, there's a medical emergency happening right nowDad: Go and see if “moody lighting" helps— Jackson Hayes (@jacksonhvisuals) November 26, 2019

  126. 126.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:53 pm

    @TomatoQueen: I wasn’t fishing for compliments, just expressing a bit of disappointment.  I love the pie filter and thought others might, too.  Catcake is my favorite image, though I also really like the line drawing desserts.  Sadly (or not) I haven’t pied anybody on the new site yet, but I got to be in it a lot for testing.  Having said that, thank you!  I’m sure Catcake feels much better.

  127. 127.

    Baud

    November 26, 2019 at 4:54 pm

    @WaterGirl: I’ve never pied anybody, but I think it’s a nice setup.

  128. 128.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:56 pm

    @Baud: I actually think anything is possible once Pete makes it through Iowa.  It looks like he certainly would if the caucus was held today.  I wonder what will happen to the candidates that can’t get to the 15% so then those “voters” get to pick their second choice.

     

    I think Iowa will shake things up a lot.  But I don’t care how well you do in Iowa, if you can get black votes in South Carolina, I don’t think you make it anywhere near the finish line.  It will be interesting to watch, or it would be interesting if there weren’t so much on the line.

  129. 129.

    Dan B

    November 26, 2019 at 4:56 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m happy to hear the BJP is on the outs in Maharashtra.  It helps all of us, however indirectly, to have places where tolerance and acceptance of the full spectrum of humanity.

     

    And I have fond memories of being made a part of a family in Mumbai and New Delhi.

  130. 130.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:56 pm

    @Baud: Thank you!  I was going to say you could pie me, but then what if you forgot to set me free?????  sniff sniff

  131. 131.

    pamelabrown53

    November 26, 2019 at 4:57 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Please don’t succumb to your most pessimistic self! IF Biden is the nominee, he won’t necessarily “face plant”. He would no longer flailing & defending a long and mixed-storied career to our left flank. Plus, People like the Obamas will be all in.

  132. 132.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 4:58 pm

    Since we’re two hours into a thread and no new thread in sight, maybe this is a good place for a PSA?

    This afternoon I moved On The Road from Featuring to the Category Bar at the top… I don’t want anyone to be alarmed because they can’t find it in the morning.

    edit: Sorry, Election Year, people will just have to go find you under View by Topic.

  133. 133.

    chris

    November 26, 2019 at 5:00 pm

    @Kent:

     

    Like whether corporations can poison our children with lead or wipe out endangered species for profit or drill in national parks.

    Coming soon! These really are the fcking mole people. (Thanks, Charlie Pierce.)

  134. 134.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 5:00 pm

    <blockquote class=”twitter-tweet”><p lang=”en” dir=”ltr”>Just a totally normal former pro athlete fantasizing about murdering his political opponents. Nothing to see here. <a href=”https://t.co/FB0Z9kQYAe”>https://t.co/FB0Z9kQYAe</a></p>&mdash; Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) <a href=”https://twitter.com/ParkerMolloy/status/1199430127068831745?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw”>November 26, 2019</a></blockquote>

  135. 135.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 5:01 pm

    @Jay: Try pasting the same thing again after clicking the Text tab on the top right.

    edit, if it tells you that’s a duplicate, speak up and I can delete the one at #134 and you can try again.

  136. 136.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 5:05 pm

    @Dan B:

    Sheesh the people who suck up to our demented president and make fools of themselves to save their careers.

    When people show you who they are, believe them.  A lot of people are showing their asses.

  137. 137.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 5:10 pm

    @WaterGirl:

     

    edit is dead, also just for fun, sometimes text/visual forms don’t load, just text with nothing to note it’s the text form except for the header functions.

     

    while wonked twits and quotes can be awkward to read, they are still readable, so I don’t worry too much.

     

    also, twice, once Saturday night, once Sunday night, a lengthy and link filled , (not too many) reply to a poster just hung after hitting post comment.

     

    Don’t know if it was at my end or yours because the rest of the intertubes worked just fine.

  138. 138.

    karen marie

    November 26, 2019 at 5:14 pm

    @germy: Didn’t sound like joking to me.

  139. 139.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    This reporter Trump just called on, who lobbed a softball question about his "great peace deal" in the Middle East, is from TruNews, an far-right/ultra conservative, christian media site that posts Trump-friendly "news" articles. pic.twitter.com/R0KWno6FXd— Melanie Schmitz (@MelsLien) September 26, 2018

    Yesterday, TruNews, a far-right outlet, published a video about this on YouTube that also suggested Pizzagate was real & that Comet Ping Pong had nefarious activity, along with linking to a Pizzagate hashtag with more videos pushing it. The video was monetized via super chats. pic.twitter.com/qrCCcJaEsZ— Alex Kaplan (@AlKapDC) June 11, 2019

  140. 140.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    @pamelabrown53: We’re Democrats, remember? The left-guard action doesn’t necessarily stop when the primaries are over. And flailing seems to be Biden’s natural state as a presidential candidate. For these reasons, I don’t think my pessimism is unfounded, but I am wrong a lot, and I sincerely hope I’m wrong about this too. :)

  141. 141.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    @Jay: I am pretty sure that the rate of fixing things that aren’t working properly will speed up again after Thanksgiving.

    The site was down for 10 minutes on Saturday night and long than that last night.  It seems like database/indexing issues; we are going to figure an approach to that out after Thanksgiving.

  142. 142.

    karen marie

    November 26, 2019 at 5:16 pm

    @Betty Cracker:  I find that baffling.  Dogs who do that kind of work are highly trained.  Any dog that was unreliable would be retired.

  143. 143.

    Aleta

    November 26, 2019 at 5:16 pm

    This turkey thing is grating for me because he enjoys having power over life v death and abuses it and shouldn’t have any.

  144. 144.

    Phoebe's Pet

    November 26, 2019 at 5:21 pm

    @sdhays: I see what you did there ;)

     

    ..and product placement was my first thought, too.

  145. 145.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 5:22 pm

    @karen marie:

     

    “just joking” is the old racist excuse that has been repurposed by ReThugs who accidentally or otherwise, make their confessions, projections or inner truths public.

     

    so when Trump said at one of his rallies that he hopes that “ the US slowly dies of starvation and radiation poisoning including all you MAGAt f€ckers”  after his BFF Rocket Man nukes the US,

     

    he walked it back with a “just jokeing libtard FAKE News” to Jim Acosta.

  146. 146.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 5:26 pm

    @WaterGirl:

     

    happier than a pig in truffles or a lamb in clover over the new site and everybody’s hard work.

     

    minor glitches are no biggie, ( I’m a Tupac fan) and are a fraction of what happened on the old platform, regularly.

     

    thank y’all again,….. and again,….. and again,…….

  147. 147.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 5:29 pm

    @Dan B: I see it more as an assertion of regional independence.  Mumbai doesn’t trust Gujarat, it goes back to the history of the Bombay Province (which consisted of both the current day Gujarat and Maharashtra) in British India and the movement for the formation of Maharashtra in the late 50s and early 60s.

  148. 148.

    Immanentize

    November 26, 2019 at 5:31 pm

    I don’t understand the dod issue.  Is the fear that if Trump thought it was a female dog, he’d try to grab her by the p—sy?

  149. 149.

    pamelabrown53

    November 26, 2019 at 5:34 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    True, so very true re: left guard action after the primary has been decided. Just look at the Steiners and the Bernie protesters at our convention!

    Still, while these elements won’t vanish, we won’t have a blase general electorate as we did with a 2 term president.

    In sum: I think that many, many people of all stripes and creeds will work to save our democracy.

    Pollyanna Pam?

  150. 150.

    NotMax

    November 26, 2019 at 5:34 pm

    @WaterGirl
    Minor, minor thing but noticed that the word Judean is spelled incorrectly on the rotating tag I’m currently seeing, as “Judaen.”

    Probably been that way for ages; dunno as rotating tags didn’t show for me on last iteration of old site.

    As for the pie filter, have never used it, never shall. Found it in contradiction of Mr. Cole’s expressed desire to keep the place open and accessible. Am a big enough boy to trot through threads without wearing blinders. As always, YMMV.

  151. 151.

    Betty Cracker

    November 26, 2019 at 5:38 pm

    @pamelabrown53: Prescient Pam, I hope! ?

  152. 152.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 5:39 pm

    @Dan B: But it was a good push back against the fascist duo in charge of India and their machinations.

  153. 153.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 5:47 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

     

    is Indian “regional independence” more an expressed form of federal/provincial ( state ) separation of powers/history as an independent state “thing” or is it a post Independence backlash/separatism reaction of Federal excesses, “insults” and failures?

     

    or both?

  154. 154.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 5:50 pm

    @NotMax:

    I’m currently seeing, as “Judaen.”

    It was actually in as Judaean, copied from the old site.  I removed the first “a”.  Let me know if it’s correct when you see it again.

  155. 155.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 5:53 pm

    @NotMax: The way I see it, everybody gets to say it (within limits) but not everybody has to listen to it.  I don’t see that as a contradiction, and as far as I can tell, it doesn’t seem to bother John since he put the words “All Hail, Cleek” in the comment policy.  IN ALL CAPS!

  156. 156.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 5:58 pm

    @Jay: I so appreciate hearing that!  It can be frustrating to have a shiny new plaything and not have it work perfectly.  But you are so right, glitches are a part of life with a new site.  We’ll get there!  Not that it will ever be perfect, but it will definitely be trustworthy and reliable, just like a boy scout.

  157. 157.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 6:01 pm

    @Jay: A bit of both. India is like what Europe would be if it were a country. The states are linguistically organized. There are cultural overlaps between states in the same geographic region. All of present day India was never one political unit before the British but the alliances and kingdoms have been fluid for the past 5000 years. If you ask me more than religious differences, regional differences have been more important throughout the history of the subcontinent.

  158. 158.

    karen marie

    November 26, 2019 at 6:04 pm

    @Jay: Hear hear.

     

    Not having to retype my nym/email every time I comment is worth the small farts that are occurring.

  159. 159.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 6:24 pm

    @schrodingers_cat

    I probably wasn’t clear. Most of the Canadian Provinces existed as independent colonies prior to Confederation.

    Sometimes, antifederal actions/sentiment by individual Provinces are dominantly based in the pre-Confederation history of the Province. Eg, Land Title/Language/Civil Law, Quebec, Indigenous Treaties/Commercial Fishing, British Columbia.

    Sometimes, it’s based in the post Confederation relations between the Province and the Federal Government, ( everything Alberta).

    So is the recent F/U to the Feds, more about “now”, or more about “then”, or a big mix of “both” and “other”?

  160. 160.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 6:29 pm

    @Jay: The tensions between Maharashtra and Delhi are historic both in the  past (Shivaji – Aurangzeb, 17th and 18th centuries), Nehru-Sanyukta Maharashtra agitation (1950s) and more recent with Modi-Shah’s moves towards  centralization and meddling in state level politics. Added wrinkle is that Modi and Shah are from Gujarat which wanted Mumbai to be a centrally administered area and not be a part of Maharashtra.  With the recent usurpation of Kashmir’s statehood. People are remembering the not so distant past.

    I hope that answers some of your questions.

  161. 161.

    Dan B

    November 26, 2019 at 6:33 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s one of those odd things about the world.  My favorite restaurant meaks were at Thackers, a Gujarati restaurant in Mumbai, and takeout from a Muslim place in New Delhi.  Both groups have a degree of support for authoritatian politics but the cuisines are wonderful.  It may be the authoritarian impulse arises when societies are in rapid transitions.  Christianists are horrified at womens’ empowerment, LGBT rights, and Muslim immigration.  Their “stable world” strikes them as insecure and threatening to their vision.

     

    Modi gets blamed for the riots in Gujarat but the details seem opaque to me.  Chicken or egg?

  162. 162.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 6:36 pm

    Suketu Mehta a Gujarati writer who wrote the “Maximum City” whose contempt for Marathi speaking people is evident in that book is pretty representative of Gujarati people. I have a Gujarati sounding last name, so many Gujaratis have expressed similar feelings to me in person.

    I tweeted about this some time back

  163. 163.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 6:38 pm

    @Dan B: He is blamed because he was responsible. He was the CM of Gujarat who did nothing while Gujarat burned.His tolerant image is a facade. He was the BJP firebrand in the 80s and 90s saying incendiary things like Muslims have 4 wives and 25 children and that they would outbreed Hindus.

    The police officer in charge Sanjiv Bhatt who blew the whistle is rotting in prison currently.

    Thakkars at Birla Krida Kendra? Did you ever got to Mafatlal Bath right next door ?

  164. 164.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 6:47 pm

    @Dan B:

    Don’t take my word for what happened in 2002 in Gujarat, check out the Human Rights Watch report. Modi was denied a visa to come to the US before he became the PM. So that was the conclusion our State Dept as well.

  165. 165.

    Dan B

    November 26, 2019 at 6:54 pm

    @Dan B: To follow up on my somewhat simplistic observations is there are things to appreciate about every culture but no culture perfect for everyone.  Some details provide valuable insight into a culture and our own prejudices and others are just noise.  Sharpening our skills to separate the Benghazi from the delicacy of foreign relations and determining what is culture versus dangerous dogma is of prime importance at this moment.

  166. 166.

    J R in WV

    November 26, 2019 at 6:55 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

     

    Don’t feel all alone on this issue…

     

    I was privileged to work with many young Indians on major software projects using state-of-the-art technology–many of them now citizens today. I very much hope that India becomes more accepting of the multiple different groups in that great and ancient nation.

     

    Not like we are here today,  but the way we were 6 years ago with a patriot in the Oval office.

  167. 167.

    Dan B

    November 26, 2019 at 7:00 pm

    • @schrodingers_cat: Didn’t go to Mafatlal Bath.  I’ll try the Google.
    • Re: Modi, I seem to recall that he did nothing  / Nero but had bern a firebrand previously.  It seems as though there are many well-financed right wing Think Tanks in the US that are dancing on the edge of plausible deniability at the moment, like Modi.  That scares me.
  168. 168.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 7:03 pm

    @Dan B:

    Its a private club. You have to be a guest of a member. I still am a member!
    CCI is pretty nice as well. It is the oldest cricket club in India. I am not a member but have family members who are.

  169. 169.

    J R in WV

    November 26, 2019 at 7:22 pm

    Not Max,

     

    You should give the pie filter a trial run just for amusement purposes… put a frequent commenter in there,  cruise down the thread,  change from pie comments to pictures and back, then drop them out of the filter.

     

    It is a work of silly art!

  170. 170.

    Dan B

    November 26, 2019 at 7:25 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: I recall the Thakkars / Thacker’s we ate at was by a rail line, half a flight downstairs, not on Chowpatty.  It’s been 17 years so it may have moved.  The Bath looks splendid as does the current Thacker’s.

     

    We stayed just northwest of Chowpatty Beach at the penthouse of the widow of the poet laureate of India.  Umma Massi, which is her affectionate title, as you know.  She wanted ideas on landscaping the pool.  It seemed out of my depth – landscaping with houseplants, ha!  We were a block from a tennis club on the Aranian Sea and seversl blocks from the towers of silence / sky burial.  (If I’ve got that right.)

  171. 171.

    WaterGirl

    November 26, 2019 at 7:25 pm

    @J R in WV: Just what I was going for!  With utility, also, but not required.

  172. 172.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 7:50 pm

    @Dan B: They have more than one location.

  173. 173.

    Bill Arnold

    November 26, 2019 at 8:28 pm

    href=”#comment-7487647″>@schrodingers_cat:

    Devendra, Tomorrow Narendra

    Dead thread, smiled big on reading this, tx.

  174. 174.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 8:45 pm

    Thanks!

  175. 175.

    frosty

    November 26, 2019 at 9:40 pm

    @WaterGirl: I really thought more people would be excited by the pie filter.

    The lack of excitement could be caused by no one using it because of the civil discourse and erudite comments*. I haven’t reached for it since the new site became live. The last commenter I pied disappeared, too.

    *No, really! It surprises me too.

  176. 176.

    Procopius

    November 26, 2019 at 9:57 pm

    Victory!!! If he’s going to take Mark Penn’s advice he’s toast. The Senate will convict him and remove him. All hail President** Pence. /s

  177. 177.

    Procopius

    November 26, 2019 at 10:03 pm

    @Frosty @Watergirl: What’s a pie filter, what’s it used for, how do you use it? I was a computer nerd 40 years ago. I haven’t been able to keep up, especially the change of language. What used to be directories became folders with Windows 3.0. Maybe you need a roll-over tooltip. Is a pie filter anything like a kill-filter? I had a great one for usenet news — I could filter people based on their IP address (essential when people change their handle [nym?] every other day). None of the popular ones could do that, and I never understood why.

  178. 178.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 10:10 pm

    @Procopius:

     

    the old pie filter here, allowed you to pie a commentator, and afterwards, instead of seeing their comment in the threads, you would see snark instead.

     

    apparently the new pie filter is even better, worth trying not to pie someone, but instead ,just to see the pie for entertainment purposes.

  179. 179.

    NotMax

    November 26, 2019 at 10:47 pm

    @Jay

    Doesn’t it strike anyone else as more than passing odd that the very first thing one encounters on a comment page is a way to block comments?

  180. 180.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 26, 2019 at 11:09 pm

    #174 was in response to #173.

  181. 181.

    Jay

    November 26, 2019 at 11:15 pm

    @NotMax:

     

    only when the internet was new,

  182. 182.

    Chris Johnson

    November 27, 2019 at 7:31 am

    @Betty Cracker: I read polls like that as ‘50% Russian’ and see them as a sign of what someone DESPERATELY WANTS us to believe and act on.

    Especially in the absence of, you know, any actual elections, this stuff is more of the same manipulation and unreality we’ve been seeing for years.

    It doesn’t even have to be specifically Russians. We could have Jeff Bezos, or Bloomberg, spending a bunch of money on astroturfing a poll. Who, exactly, would want to see Liz Warren cratering by 14 points and suddenly less popular than Tulsi Gabbard? There are people out there who want that and can afford to do this. Cheating? It’s all fucking cheating at this point. None of it can be taken at face value, and that is exactly what the Russians wanted.

  183. 183.

    RobNYNY

    November 27, 2019 at 6:09 pm

    Andrew stein of the bad wig and nicotine yellow teeth?
    https://www.alamy.com/april-2-2018-new-york-city-new-york-us-news-personality-geraldo-rivera-and-politician-andrew-stein-attend-the-book-party-hosted-by-sean-hannity-to-celebrate-the-publication-of-the-geraldo-show-held-at-del-friscos-restaurant-credit-image-nancy-kaszerman-via-zuma-wire-image178692316.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=96ACF296-2414-4E29-8874-119532C24330&p=151045&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3dandrew%2520stein%26qt_raw%3dandrew%2520stein%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d0%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0%26pl%3d

  184. 184.

    am

    November 28, 2019 at 1:09 am

    “Penn reassured Trump that he wouldn’t be removed from office, according to people familiar with the meeting, and encouraged him to travel the country like Clinton did when he was fighting impeachment over 20 years ago, officials said.”

    Mark Penn might a double agent. Either way, he’s either feeding bad advice or he’s a moron. Win/win.

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