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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

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You are here: Home / Politics / America / Some Context on the Naval Air Station Pensacola Shooting

Some Context on the Naval Air Station Pensacola Shooting

by Adam L Silverman|  December 6, 20192:08 pm| 86 Comments

This post is in: America, Domestic Politics, Education, Foreign Affairs, Immigration, Military, Politics, Saudi Arabia, Silverman on Security

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Some Context on the Naval Air Station Pensacola Shooting

NBC/MSNBC is now reporting that the shooter at Naval Air Station (NAS) Pensacola is a Saudi national. Which will, of course, turn a tragedy into an absolute shitshow.

I wanted to just take a moment and provide some context here for our readers and commenters who don’t have a lot of exposure to the US military education system. The US military education system, referred to as Professional Military Education (PME), governs how we prepare the force across all three cohorts (officer, enlisted, and warrant) and across the scope of one’s career in the military. At the Joint level – encompassing all four services – the controlling instructions can be found in Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction (CJCSI) 1800.01E, better known as the OPMEP (Officers Professional Military Education Policy and CJCSI 1805.0B, the Enlisted Professional Military Education Policy referred to as the EPMEP. Each Service has their own Service specific guidelines and policies, which are further broken down by branch, military occupation specialty, and/or functional area and are supposed to be nested within the Joint policies. US military personnel spend significant parts of their careers, no matter how long or short, in the schoolhouse or training center. A significant part of generating the force is educating them, training them, and running them through exercises as experiential learning. We’re also supposed to be encouraging them to do individual self development, but that usually gets lip service rather than incentivized. Overall, PME is something the military really does well – it invests in educating and training and then continuing to educate and train the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines throughout the course of their career arcs. This is largely a function of scale as the force, across all the Services, is large enough to have significant portions in the schoolhouse or in training without compromising readiness or operational capability.

Part of US PME includes multinational training. There are several reasons for this. One is that the US military is intended to operate within a JIIM – Joint, Interagency, Intergovernmental, and Multinational – environment. So we want our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines exposed to our allies and partners through PME, as well as operationally. But we also want our allies and partners military personnel to be exposed to how we prepare our forces and how we operate. And this means that large numbers of foreign nation military personnel are in the US attending PME programs alongside our own forces. Another reason for doing this, especially at the higher education levels (Senior Leader Colleges/War College, strategist schools, Command & General Staff Schools, and, in some cases even at the Service academies), is to try to socialize these foreign military personnel to US Civil-Military (CIV-MIL) norms. It is also to have personnel from opposing sides of conflicts have to learn and socialize together across their careers. The goals here are aspirational. That these foreign officers, especially from states without strong, or even any, liberal democratic systems will internalize some of our CIV-MIL norms, take them home, and when they’re senior enough actually put them into effect if the opportunity presents itself. It is also to create and foster relationships and friendships that survive the course of study, so that if a conflict looks like it will break out, potential adversaries might call their former classmates and try to deescalate. Like I said, very aspirational. Also, somewhat quintessentially American.

Almost all of these foreign military personnel attending US military PME are covered under the International Military Engagement and Training (IMET) Program. The who, what, and why of IMET are:

Purpose:

The goals of IMET are to:

Train future leaders

Create a better understanding of the United States

Establish a rapport between the U.S. military and the country’s military to build alliances for the future

Enhance interoperability and capabilities for joint operation

Focus on professional military education

Allow countries to use their national funds to receive a reduced cost for other DoD education and training

Provide English Language Training assistance

Who:

Secretary of State determines which countries will have programs.  Secretary of Defense executes the program.

Funding:

Annual appropriation

The now identified shooter at NAS-Pensacola as a Saudi national was most likely in training there under the IMET program as a pilot. And that’s how a Saudi national would most likely be assigned to Naval Air Station Pensacola. The foreign nationals in the IMET program are usually selected by their own countries and there are usually no significant problems as they’re vetted by both their own governments and by the US military. But like everything else involving humans, you do get the occasional issue, though usually nothing like what happened this morning. Sometimes a coup or other change of government will happen and we’ll have foreign military personnel as students that can’t really go home because they were sent by the previous regime and they and their families’ lives are at risk. Sometimes you just get a knucklehead. My second year at USAWC, one of the foreign officers in the resident course got himself into a serious gambling problem, went AWOL trying to run for the Canadian border, got picked up by law enforcement, and ultimately wound up escorted back to his own country by two senior law enforcement officials sent by his government to babysit him. The point here is that these aren’t really problems with the IMET program itself, they’re individual problems that arise because the people in the program are humans. And humans do all sorts of stupid things.

I expect that regardless of the actual motivations of the shooter in Pensacola this morning, this will provide further fodder for the neo-nationalists and neo-fascists that have been able to capture the US’s immigration system under the current administration. What is most likely a tragedy in human terms will be capitalized on by a bunch of xenophobic, racist, white supremacists to push their agenda of whitening America as quickly as possible. And, like everything else that gets in the way of achieving their goals, the IMET program is likely to be in for a rough time as a result of this morning’s shooting. Which is a shame, because it is an excellent program that, while aspirational in a lot of its goals, provides real value for the US, its allies, and its partners.

Two final notes:

  1. Firearms are not authorized on Naval Air Station-Pensacola, or any other base, with a couple of exceptions. Military Police, Shore Patrol, and DOD and Service Police are armed as part of their duty assignments. All other Service issued arms are secured in an arms room/armory and can only be checked out for a legitimate training reason and under the supervision of an Armory Officer/Armorer. Those personnel residing on post are allowed to register their personal arms with the Provost Marshal on post. Those arms are also secured in an arms room/armory and can only be checked out under the supervision of an Armory Officer/Armorer. They must be unloaded and secured in locked containers when this is done. We don’t know how the shooter got his firearm on to post this morning, so beware of speculation about how this happened. I have some thoughts, but I’m not going to speculate at this time.
  2. There is always a spike in homicides, especially domestic/familial/intimate partner and workplace homicides, as well as suicides during the holiday season between Thanksgiving and New Years. This happens every year. There is a robust criminological, sociological, and psychological literature trying to understand and explain it. But it is a very real effect. So expect to see increased incidences of violence between now and the first week of January 2020.

Open thread!

Full disclosure: During my four years assigned as the Cultural Advisor at USAWC I directly supervised as the faculty advisor (frontline supervisor) five foreign officers. I also directly supervised as the research advisor (equivalent to a thesis advisor) ten foreign officers. And I served as the faculty sponsor of two foreign officers. These officers ranged in rank from lieutenant colonel to major general.

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Reader Interactions

86Comments

  1. 1.

    Chip Daniels

    December 6, 2019 at 2:13 pm

    So when do we start bombing Saudi Arabia and taking the oil?

  2. 2.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    December 6, 2019 at 2:18 pm

    @Chip Daniels:

    Aren’t we already sending troops there? So the invasion should be a snap!

  3. 3.

    Mary G

    December 6, 2019 at 2:20 pm

    I had an immediate reaction that maybe we should stop training Saudis to fly planes. That was wrong of me. Then I wondered if the president would pander to MBS by saying plenty of Americans shoot up workplaces too. That was possibly not as wrong.

     

    But you’re right. The usual suspects will be off to the races.

  4. 4.

    cain

    December 6, 2019 at 2:28 pm

    Looks like we are heading for war with Iran because (checks notes) a Saudi national by invitation of the military opened fire and killed some folks. Hey I don’t make the rules, folks.

    Can’t wait for what our President is going to say about this. Will he throw the House of Saud under the bus? Or will he travel to SA and gaze upon their glowing ball and all will be okay. Stay tuned!

  5. 5.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 2:28 pm

    US officials said it's "guaranteed" that Russia monitored Giuliani calls with Trump/White House; Moscow may know more about Ukraine plot than impeachment investigators. https://t.co/HxaRin7ia4— Greg Miller (@gregpmiller) December 6, 2019

  6. 6.

    Mandalay

    December 6, 2019 at 2:28 pm

    @Mary G:

    Then I wondered if the president would pander to MBS by saying plenty of Americans shoot up workplaces too

    Not quite, but you aren’t too far off...

    King Salman of Saudi Arabia just called to express his sincere condolences and give his sympathies to the families and friends of the warriors who were killed and wounded in the attack that took place in Pensacola, Florida….

    ….The King said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people who love the American people.

    IOKIYAS

     

    O/T, but is there an increasing trend to now label anyone in the military as a “warrior”? I don’t think it’s just Trump doing that.

  7. 7.

    Yutsano

    December 6, 2019 at 2:29 pm

    “Saudi National”
    Welp…this is about to go all to shit.

    @Mary G:  I actually agree that we should not be training Saudi pilots. It’s not like it’s going to stick anyway. The command structure of the Saudi military isn’t compatible with the methods Adam just described above. It’s also part of the reason why they can’t close any kind of deal in Yemen. They can just bomb shit and make the population miserable there.

  8. 8.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:29 pm

    @Steeplejack (phone): We have the normal deployed forward training component in Saudi. These troops are operating under both the US Military Training Mission-Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (UMTM-KSA) and the Office of the Program Manager for Saudi Arabian National Guard (OPMSANG).

    https://www.centcom.mil/OPERATIONS-AND-EXERCISES/USMTM/

    https://www.army.mil/OPM-SANG

  9. 9.

    Mary G

    December 6, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    @Mary G:

     Well. That didn’t take long:

    King Salman of Saudi Arabia just called to express his sincere condolences and give his sympathies to the families and friends of the warriors who were killed and wounded in the attack that took place in Pensacola, Florida….— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 6, 2019

    ….The King said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people who love the American people.— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) December 6, 2019

    It takes him weeks, if ever, to say anything about blue states (fires in CA, nothing but rake-blaming), but kisses up immediately when the autocrat calls.

  10. 10.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    Nikki Haley says the Confederate flag was about "service, and sacrifice, and heritage" until Dylan Roof "hijacked" it pic.twitter.com/pqdhKIezRl— Jason Campbell (@JasonSCampbell) December 6, 2019

  11. 11.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    @Mary G: They don’t really fly them once they get back home. Saudi basically has the best parade and display Army and Air Force that money can buy.

  12. 12.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    @Jay: How many front page posts have I done on this? Three, four?

  13. 13.

    cain

    December 6, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    @cain:

    Looks like he’s heading to SA to gaze on their glowing orb then!

    Re:Mandalay’s post

  14. 14.

    Mary G

    December 6, 2019 at 2:32 pm

    @Yutsano: I imagine getting to be a Saudi officer involves being born into a wealthy family connected to the ruling class rather more than being a good worker or student.

  15. 15.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    @Mandalay:

    ….The King said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people who love the American people.

    Most of these pilots are somehow related to the royal family. Or part of the families that are the senior retainers of the royal family.

  16. 16.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:34 pm

    @Mandalay:

    O/T, but is there an increasing trend to now label anyone in the military as a “warrior”? I don’t think it’s just Trump doing that.

    Started creeping in post 9-11. The more accurate term is warfighter, but even that is a misnomer.

  17. 17.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    In my 10-15 years working at Fort Leonard Wood (you probably know it as Fort Lost in the Woods) security went from fairly tight (I had to be registered just to get onto the base) to all but “drive on in” whenever you want for what ever reason you want by the time I stopped working there. They still did random searches of vehicles but it was very rare and coming in via one of the back gates as I did it was all but nonexistent (I’m sure after a while some of the guards recognized me as I recognized them). At the main gate they searched more vehicles but considering the #s it would not surprise me if proportionately it was less.

    I haven’t worked there in 6 yrs or so, and I know things have tightened up a little bit since then, but if Pensacola is anything like FLW (and I really have no idea, Navy may have an entirely different security culture than Army), it wouldn’t be all that hard to bring one in.

  18. 18.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    Toyota land cruiser,made for Africa pic.twitter.com/srkpGjLpE3— alex (@africaken1) December 6, 2019

  19. 19.

    catclub

    December 6, 2019 at 2:35 pm

    @cain: Looks like we are heading for war with Iran because (checks notes) a Saudi national by invitation of the military opened fire and killed some folks.

     

    Qatar or Kuwait are probably better choices than Iran.

    Iran has a a real military.

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    December 6, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    @Mandalay:

     

    O/T, but is there an increasing trend to now label anyone in the military as a “warrior”? I don’t think it’s just Trump doing that.

     

    Yes, my ears perked up at that, right away.  It is sickening, and I say that as the daughter of a military family.

     

    It’s more us vs. them, and it’s not accidental usage.  The good Americans are military and police and law enforcement.  The rest of us ….

  21. 21.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    @Mary G: It helps. I know several. The pilots tend to be members or more distant relations of the royal family. They are usually very highly educated, speak fluent English often with an English accent as they were educated in England. Among the other Services, branches, and occupation specialties of the Saudi military it varies.

  22. 22.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 2:38 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    at least 4 major front page, 14 minor front page, 179 comments going back over 4 years,……

  23. 23.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:39 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: If you have a US military and/or governmental ID and/or your vehicle is registered with the base Provost Marshal’s office if that is still required at that base, then your vehicle will only be searched if selected for a random additional screening, including the bomb sniffing dog. My guess is that is how the shooter got the gun on post. He had a US Navy issued CAC card as an ID and was allowed through security because having the card means he was vetted and approved and therefore not a security or safety risk.

  24. 24.

    catclub

    December 6, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: When? Post or pre-911?

    Security has only ratcheted up (relatively slowly) here, since 9/11.

  25. 25.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    @Jay: Do you, perchance, know where my missing sock is? I’m missing one crew cut athletic sock. Thanks!

  26. 26.

    Citizen Alan

    December 6, 2019 at 2:40 pm

    @Mandalay:

     

    O/T, but is there an increasing trend to now label anyone in the military as a “warrior”? I don’t think it’s just Trump doing that.

    The one that annoys me is “war-fighter” which sounds like what a toddler would call a soldier.

  27. 27.

    WereBear

    December 6, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    It’s very true about the holiday season. One horrific such time on Long Island had five incidents in two weeks time: all ex-husbands killing their wives, then themselves.

     

    The kids were not targets, but orphans.

  28. 28.

    boba

    December 6, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Au contaire mon ami, They are quite skilled in dropping munitions on Yemeni civilians and other unarmed noncombatants.

     

    (And if you are old like me, and served in the USAF, you may have worked with, *gasp*, Iranian pilots and officers)

  29. 29.

    Elizabelle

    December 6, 2019 at 2:42 pm

    Honestly, is it hard imagining someone shooting up a workplace anywhere in the United States?

    I guess not a courthouse or secure government facility (metal detectors) or an airport once you’ve been through security.  Or a Capitol Hill Congressional office — the pawns of the NRA get the very best in taxpayer-paid security and layers of personnel between their bods and the great unwashed they “represent” …

     

    And, again, an employee or person familiar to the security in a building could still make it in with a weapon if security is lax.

     

    But what is coming to US Naval bases and other military facilities has been with Americans for a long, long time.  Workplace shootings.  Schools.  Churches.  Theatres.  You name it.

    Greatest country in the world.

  30. 30.

    Mary G

    December 6, 2019 at 2:42 pm

    Best response I’ve seen so far:

    "This person in no way, shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi government. We expressed those feelings in an embassy in Turkey." https://t.co/KpFCjWJ06R— Walter Shaub (@waltshaub) December 6, 2019

  31. 31.

    Martin

    December 6, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    I don’t have a problem with us training allied pilots. In fact, I think that’s a great thing.

     

    I do question Saudi Arabia as an ally though.  It seems like we have some very, very, very fundamental disagreements on some really important issues, unlike, say, France or Japan or Togo or Ukraine. In fact, I think we have fewer fundamental disagreements with Iran, TBH.

  32. 32.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 6, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    @Chip Daniels: Never.  MBS is best buddies with Trump.

  33. 33.

    rikyrah

    December 6, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    Remember,

     

    according to  Dolt45, the Saudi’s PAY US

     

    So, yes, I am awaiting for Dolt45 to tweet something.

     

    If only this was a Muslim from a country not lining his pockets.

     

    PS- isn’t a Saudi the largest shareholder of Newscorp outside of Rupert Murdoch?

  34. 34.

    Ruckus

    December 6, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    Adam
    This sounds no different than when I was in the service decades ago. I went to school for 25% of my enlistment. We had, in advanced training school, people from foreign military. Their military used American made, in this case ships and equipment and they needed to know how to operate/fix them.
    On the second issue, guns on base, I served for a short time in the Shore Patrol, while on temporary duty. The only people to carry guns on base were the gate guards. None of us on patrol carried a projectile weapon, only night sticks and handcuffs.
    Now the answer to your question. At least at that time not every car was searched, just not enough time and on duty personnel. I rode with the enlisted man in charge, a Marine gunny who would on occasion select cars to be searched. He was the best drug sniffer I have ever seen, no matter the rank of the person driving, if he stopped them there were drugs in the car. But I only ever saw about 5% of the cars entering stopped by anyone for any reason.

  35. 35.

    Elizabelle

    December 6, 2019 at 2:45 pm

    “Warfighter”?

    Good lord.  Had never heard that before.  I would have guessed that was from a foreign language.

     

    It’s a ridiculous word.  Why aren’t the previous words good enough?

  36. 36.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 2:45 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

     

    A review of the survelliance tapes say it’s stuck by static electricity inside of the left lower leg of the black Haines Press Free Pleated Dress Pants you laundered on Wednesday.

  37. 37.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 6, 2019 at 2:46 pm

    @Jay: So when do Republicans rage about this news the way they raged about Secretary Clinton’s email server?  Ditto the New York Times?

  38. 38.

    Searcher

    December 6, 2019 at 2:47 pm

    @cain: It’s a shame that Balloon Juice doesn’t have upvotes sometimes.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    December 6, 2019 at 2:47 pm

    Flawrence of Arabia.

  40. 40.

    Cacti

    December 6, 2019 at 2:48 pm

    @Martin: I do question Saudi Arabia as an ally though.  It seems like we have some very, very, very fundamental disagreements on some really important issues, unlike, say, France or Japan or Togo or Ukraine. In fact, I think we have fewer fundamental disagreements with Iran, TBH.

     

    Casting our lot with the barbarian monarchy of Saudi Arabia, rather than the nascent democracy of Iran, might be America’s greatest strategic mistake of the postwar era.

  41. 41.

    Martin

    December 6, 2019 at 2:48 pm

    @Citizen Alan: Gun-boy! Call-of-duty-shoot-a-man! Doctor-pew-pew!

  42. 42.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

     

    when Hell Freezes Over?

     

    and given Global Warming,……

     

    Never?

  43. 43.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 6, 2019 at 2:50 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:   That’s what I would expect. When i first started in ’02-’03 we had to have a sponsor (the contractor we were working for) register our vehicles, have our DL run, and then we were issued a permit we had to display in our windshields. It was only good for a month so then we had to go thru it all again. A PITA. I was really surprised when FLW just stopped doing all that and all one needed was a current driver’s license they scanned and waived you in.

    @catclub: as above ’02-’03 till about 2015.

  44. 44.

    Elizabelle

    December 6, 2019 at 2:51 pm

    @Martin:   Agreed, re your second paragraph.  The Saudis are a very poor partner.  Problematic in many respects.  We should be much better aligned with Iran and Cuba, who share more interests (and even culture) with us than Republicans will allow us to admit.

     

    Kind of glad to see this blowing up on Trump’s watch, although who knows what he and Pompeo and his other underbosses will do.

  45. 45.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Jared actually.

  46. 46.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 2:54 pm

    @Jay: I don’t have a single thing made by Haines. But thanks for playing.

  47. 47.

    Ruckus

    December 6, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    @Jay:

    That’s funny. And not even close to funny.

    I was stationed in Charleston SC for 2 yrs while in the navy. If that flag didn’t represent racism 50 yrs ago, I will eat something disgusting in the next 5 seconds. Times up, didn’t eat a thing.

    It has been about racism for over a hundred years and Nickki knows that. Or she is a f********* idiot. Which may also be true in any case. This may be her given name but I notice that she’s missing one k in there.

  48. 48.

    Martin

    December 6, 2019 at 2:56 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: I remember going to the local marine base with my grandmother. She would go every week because the PX was the only place in California at the time where you could get english muffins.

    She’d pull up, show her id. They’d salute her (officer) and we’d drive in. There was never a search or anything, not that a 60 year old woman and 13 year year old kid in a Honda likely were carrying.

    It was always fun. Not a lot of WWII era female retired officers roaming around. We’d get funny looks and she’d go over and start conversations. They’d get a kick of hearing her stories from the war, and the 6 months in traction after her ship was fired on got respect. That was always good for getting the teenager an audience to ask some questions about the helicopters or whatever.

  49. 49.

    Martin

    December 6, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    For the record, I’m just assuming this is nothing more than a rando shooting, of which we seem to have infinite of. I doubt it was an act of terror.

  50. 50.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    @Elizabelle: the deification and fetishization of the US Military, started after the Vietnam War, as the military moved to an all volenteer force and in the wake of losses and immoral wars, glorified mythology had to replace reality to justify the status quo. After the Iraq War, then 9/11, it just became worse and worse with a trickle down effect on any LEO ajacent armed Uniform.

  51. 51.

    catclub

    December 6, 2019 at 3:02 pm

    @Martin: I do question Saudi Arabia as an ally though.

     

    I was just thinking that when a discussion came up of “Israel or Turkey, worst ally ever?”  What is Sawdi Arabia, chopped liver?

     

    ans:  why not all three!

  52. 52.

    Ruckus

    December 6, 2019 at 3:07 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: 
    Another thing that’s creeping in is the thanking me for my service at the VA. Before then I’d heard it once and that was from an employee. Now I hear it about once a visit from an employee. I’d bet that is supposed to make up for the “cost” cutting that is soon to happen. Oh wait, it already has happened. Any copays or drug costs used to be sent to the actual VA. For the last year payments go to a private company, who gets paid for collecting the money. And all the employees of the department that used to collect the funds? Gone. Wanna bet it costs more to do this than the employees that no longer have jobs?

  53. 53.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 3:08 pm

    @Ruckus:

     

    she ain’t stupid, she knows her audience and constituency.

     

    spreading the same faux justifications in defence of the Treason In Defence of Slavery Flags as the rest of the closet and overt Nazis is a  prerquisite for any one aspiring to taking Dense’s place in the ReThug hierarchy.

  54. 54.

    catclub

    December 6, 2019 at 3:09 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:  wow .

    after 9/11 :

    1. nobody retired automatically gets back on site.

    2. No more drive through site as  shortcut.

     

    upgrades:

    A. car pass is irrelevant show an id.

    B. Guard has to touch ID – not just see

    C. All ID’s registered electronically

    D. Each ID is scanned on every entry.

     

    next??

  55. 55.

    Kent

    December 6, 2019 at 3:10 pm

    When I taught HS in Waco TX we used to sometimes have away football games scheduled at Fort Hood Stadium https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fort-Hood-Stadium/457636904288979 when the local Killeen High Schools needed a spillover stadium. The four Killen-area high schools share a single football stadium and would just use next door Fort Hood as their second stadium.

    Texas HS football gets big crowds and they would basically just wave all the student and parent fan cars through the gates. The guards would ask if you were going to the game, maybe check the drivers license of the driver, then wave you through.

    I mean seriously, what kind of numbskull is going to try to crash a US military base full of young soldiers?

  56. 56.

    trollhattan

    December 6, 2019 at 3:11 pm

    @Cacti:

    IIUC the 1979 siege of the Grand Mosque was the opening the religious fundamentalists needed to get their hands on the levers of power, putting a halt on what had been a period of social moderation, including [shock] allowing women various rights. And show movies (something only recently restored).

    Hate drawing the parallel but to a lesser extent, Reagan gave our homegrown fundamentalists access to power and look where the US is today because of it.

  57. 57.

    eclare

    December 6, 2019 at 3:12 pm

    @Mary G: That is brilliant.  Sad, but brilliant.

  58. 58.

    trollhattan

    December 6, 2019 at 3:15 pm

    @Kent:

    Ft Hood, twice now, has been a sad reminder of the workplace’s vulnerability, be it an office, a factory or a military facility.

    I don’t know what the lesson might be.

  59. 59.

    NotMax

    December 6, 2019 at 3:16 pm

    @Ruckus – @Mandalay

    Not to mention the creeping application/invocation of “commander-in-chief” to duties, policies and things quotidian which have no connection to anything military.

  60. 60.

    Jay

    December 6, 2019 at 3:19 pm

    When the Russian Orthodox Church isn't busy denouncing legislation against domestic violence, its high priest flies around in a $43-million private jet with shady ties to VTB Bank. https://t.co/1y3iU7PB0E— Meduza in English (@meduza_en) December 6, 2019

  61. 61.

    Kent

    December 6, 2019 at 3:21 pm

    @trollhattan:

    I’m sure there are lots of lessons.  But the place is an absolutely massive sprawling complex the size of a small city.   No possible way to completely secure it as it exists now.  According to Wikipedia:

     

    Fort Hood website lists 45,414 assigned soldiers and 8,900 civilian employees with Fort Hood covering 214,000 acres (87,000 ha), making it one of the largest military bases in the world

  62. 62.

    MaxUtil

    December 6, 2019 at 3:23 pm

    @Jay: Good god. Silverman wears pleated slacks?!? And I thought he was a deeply informed and trustworthy source of insight. Goes to show you just can’t trust anyone these days.

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 3:24 pm

    @MaxUtil: I do not.

  64. 64.

    chris

    December 6, 2019 at 3:25 pm

    Malcolm Nance was just on MSNBC saying we shouldn’t use the “t-word” until matters of the heart and/or honour are ruled out. Thanks, Chief.

  65. 65.

    trollhattan

    December 6, 2019 at 3:34 pm

    @chris:

    Absolutely! Trump already assured us the Saudis “love” us and they’ve always been big fans. That 9/11 thing was just a big misunderstanding (and the barracks bombing and the embassy bombings and the WTC bombing and…).

  66. 66.

    PPCLI

    December 6, 2019 at 3:38 pm

    @Jay:

    She also said, in a tone of condemnation, that the “national media came down in droves” because they “wanted to make this about racism.”

  67. 67.

    Barbara

    December 6, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    @Jay: She has to “redeem” her image in order to get the white supremacist vote for 2024.

  68. 68.

    Ruckus

    December 6, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    @NotMax:

    Speech has always had popular or tag words. They change with time and they have a faster rise time and farther reach due to communications we have only had for a while and they have also often been a bit off of the actual or even sometimes intended meaning. Humans like to label everything. Doesn’t mean the labels are accurate or even appropriate. Hell we even have machines for labels so that we can all use the same ones.

  69. 69.

    catclub

    December 6, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    @trollhattan: There was a report on a podcast about that, as the start of a whole lot of bad things.  I think it was from

    NPR?  Basically, in exchange for allowing the military to behave violently within Mecca,  to oust the occupiers,

    a whole lot of power was ceded to the  religious authorities.

  70. 70.

    Mike in Pasadena

    December 6, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    The shah of Iran sent many students to the same Air Force training bases where I was sent for training. Those students could not return home because they quickly learned that those who went home were executed by the revolutionaries. Most of the Iranians I met were good kids.

  71. 71.

    satby

    December 6, 2019 at 3:54 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: visiting my exchange daughter earlier this week in San Antonio I met one of her friends, a young Saudi air defense captain attending school here. I always worry about the blowback these Arab students like my daughter and her friends face after incidents like this.

  72. 72.

    Mandalay

    December 6, 2019 at 3:57 pm

    @Jay:

    Nikki Haley says the Confederate flag was about “service, and sacrifice, and heritage” until Dylan Roof “hijacked” it

    St. Ronnie has nothing on Haley when it comes to teflon coating. She was all for the Confederate Flag, right up until she wasn’t, when the winds of public opinion turned abruptly. As I recall it was around the same time that Amazon decided they wouldn’t sell anything with that flag. And for that craven act she was sanctified in the press for her “courage”.

     

    She is a fraud and an opportunist of the first order, and makes Trump seem principled. At least Trump believes in shagging anything that moves, shitting on brown people and not paying taxes. I don’t think Haley gives a flying shit about anything at all beyond her own advancement.

  73. 73.

    Elizabelle

    December 6, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    @Mary G:   Walter Shaub is great.

     

    However, look at Trump’s original tweet.  Leaves a hole big enough for a truck bomber to plow through:

     

    ….The King said that the Saudi people are greatly angered by the barbaric actions of the shooter, and that this person in no way shape or form represents the feelings of the Saudi people who love the American people.

     

    However, for those Saudis who despise the American people, these actions describe their feelings perfectly.  Lock and load.

  74. 74.

    NotMax

    December 6, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    @Ruckus

    Nevertheless I cannot object strongly enough to the rank being trundled out as some sort of talisman.

  75. 75.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 6, 2019 at 4:19 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve got some single socks from a couple of pairs, one might be yours.

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 4:33 pm

    @satby: It became a major issue post 9-11, people found a way to profit off it to the extent of becoming obscenely wealthy off of spreading conspiracy theories and hate/intolerance. And as long as that’s the case, it won’t go away any time soon.

  77. 77.

    MaxUtil

    December 6, 2019 at 4:39 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Read the transcript. Next you’ll claim to wear “perfect” slacks.

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    December 6, 2019 at 4:42 pm

    @MaxUtil: I wear trousers, but I’m funny that way.

  79. 79.

    420Flownder

    December 6, 2019 at 4:46 pm

    Huffman Aviation, Rudy Dekkers, Mohammed Atta, Venice Florida.

    Something, something September 11, 2001 ?

  80. 80.

    Ella in New Mexico

    December 6, 2019 at 4:49 pm

    @Martin:

    I don’t have a problem with us training allied pilots. In fact, I think that’s a great thing.

     

    I do question Saudi Arabia as an ally though.

    We’ve been doing it on New Mexico AF bases for a while, now. Turks and Israeli’s too. For obvious reasons, I find them all problematic right now.

  81. 81.

    ronno2018

    December 6, 2019 at 5:16 pm

    What a terrible tragedy.  I am always torn by these foreign training programs as I remember far too well the School of the Americas issues back in the 1980’s  — http://www.soaw.org/home/  .  The hope is those trained by us don’t violate human rights and democratic norms when they return to their countries but in Latin America I think the trained soldiers have done the reverse many times.

  82. 82.

    pluky

    December 6, 2019 at 5:58 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly: I was an Army brat. These bases are so big that, no matter how tight the security is at the gates, there are always any number of ways to get in/out on foot or bicycle.

  83. 83.

    pluky

    December 6, 2019 at 6:03 pm

    @Kent: As I replied to OzarkHillbilly up-thread, this Army brat concurs.

  84. 84.

    Amir Khalid

    December 6, 2019 at 7:50 pm

    @Mandalay:

    IOKIYAS?

    The King’s remarks are boiler-plate thoughts-and-prayers stuff; there is nothing in them to suggest condonation of his subject’s actions.

     

     

    @Elizabelle:

    I wouldn’t read his words that way. He would not, in a message of condolence, be making a distinction between Saudis who love Americans and Saudis who don’t, even if he sympathises with the latter. I think the intention was to say, “… the Saudi people, who love the American people …”

  85. 85.

    central texas

    December 6, 2019 at 8:56 pm

    …and then there is the School of the Americas, one of our military’s contributions to spreading our liberal values and principles to the rest of the Americas who could not train their own dictators, strongmen, torturers, and other murderous thugs quickly enough…

  86. 86.

    Rekster

    December 7, 2019 at 6:46 am

    A couple of days ago I was going through tubs of photos and memorabilia that has accumulated in our house since forever. I spent a lifetime in the US Navy, retiring in 1989. One of the tubs contained photos and other items. I graduated from Hospital Corpsman A school in February 1968. There happened to be a graduation program listing all of the instructors at the school along with the students in the class. I remembered some of my fellow graduates by name though I haven’t seen or spoken to any. Of them in many years.

     

    One of the instructors was a Nurse Corps officer, LCDR E. Bednowicz, she was married to marry Admiral Hyman Rickover, the “father of the nuclear navy.”

     

    There also was a student in my class who was a Chief Petty Officer of the Iranian Navy.

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