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You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Maybe Nancy was right.

Maybe Nancy was right.

by Betty Cracker|  December 13, 20193:48 pm| 141 Comments

This post is in: Domestic Politics, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Politics

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When I first heard about Nancy Pelosi coming to terms with Trump on the NAFTA trade deal earlier this week, I thought WTF? Why give the sloshing orange colostomy bag a “win,” especially while the bastard is being impeached? This makes me kinda rethink that:

News: Sens. Sherrod Brown and Ron Wyden will endorse the USMCA shortly, citing the inclusion of labor standards enforcement they pushed for the deal.

In 25 years in Congress, Brown has *never* voted yes on a trade deal, until now.

— Jim Tankersley (@jimtankersley) December 13, 2019

I haven’t read up on the terms closely, but if Brown is in favor, it sounds like Pelosi was right when she said this deal is worth doing because Democrats ate Trump’s lunch during the negotiations. Nancy was right! I was wrong!

Also, looks like Pelosi and team weren’t the only ones who snatched the KFC bucket and Big Mac out of Trump’s tiny mitts:

Here’s some back of the napkin math on China deal:

China agrees to buy $50B of ag products next year, increase of $29B from pre-tariff trade.

Tariffs cost U.S. farmers $11B. Then taxpayers put up $28B in emergency ag payouts.

So…we lost/spent $39B. Gained $29B.

Nice work!

— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) December 13, 2019

We’ll have to wait to see the details, but it looks like Team Xi hosed Team Trump. Greatest negotiator in the world, fellow citizens — he’s already tooting his own horn about it and will continue to forever, no matter how badly he gets pantsed nor how widely acknowledged and documented the pantsing.

Just yesterday, Trump publicly claimed that his vapid boneheaded fraud of a daughter “created 14 million jobs,” even though only 6 million total jobs have been created during his administration, and ZERO were created by anyone named Trump, unless foreign sweatshop worker jobs, international shakedown henchman positions and undocumented housekeeping gigs, etc., count.

Also, I’ve gotta think the constant lying voids any credit Trump might otherwise receive outside MAGAland, but who knows? Anyhoo…open thread!

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Reader Interactions

141Comments

  1. 1.

    Jacel

    December 13, 2019 at 3:58 pm

    A few days ago I saw Barbara Boxer on MSNBC (I forget which show). The subject of the trade agreement came up. Boxer said she would vote for this one, and she had never voted for one of these during her years as Senator. That’s consistent with the current Senators who are stating their approval of this one.

  2. 2.

    Olivia

    December 13, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    I saw a clip of Doug Collins last night bellowing that someone, he doesn’t know who, slipped wording into that bill that gives federal workers 3 months paid family leave. He was incensed that the American people had to put up with that kind of nonsense and that is why we hate Congress.  I had heard earlier that there are several such Easter eggs hidden in the bill.

  3. 3.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    The China deal is about paying of Patriot Farmers.  They don’t care about whether it’s a net win for the U.S.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:04 pm

    @Olivia:

    That’s the NDAA, not NAFTA 2.0.   The NDAA deal includes:

    • Contains strong prohibition against using the funds for Trump’s border wall vanity project. It also limits “emergency” construction budget to $500 million (the border wall, as Trump wants it, needs $22 billion in funding).
    • Prohibits of the use of defense funds to detain children separated from their families under Trump’s zero tolerance policy against asylum seekers, and requires DoD to certify the housing of any unaccompanied children (even if they came alone and weren’t separated by the US government) meets HHS standards and the Flores Settlement.
    • Ends statutory prohibitions against transfer of detainees in Guantanamo Bay – this is the Republican scaremongering obstructionism that kept President Obama from being able to close the facility.
    • Eliminates cost-sharing for birth control services for members of the military through TRICARE.
    • For the first time ever, requires the military to collect data on white nationalism, racism, and extremism among its members.
    • Sets a goal of 25% renewable energy for military facilities by 2025, and the DoD is required to report progress.
    • Directs the military to establish a Tenants’ Bill of Rights for military families in military housing managed by private companies.

     

    ETA:  Official House Summary of NDAA

  5. 5.

    Olivia

    December 13, 2019 at 4:06 pm

    @Baud:  Thanks!

  6. 6.

    Lapassionara

    December 13, 2019 at 4:06 pm

    @Olivia: The family leave was in the funding bill for space force, not in the trade deal. That one made me cringe, because of course Javanka will take credit for family leave, and the space force is nonsense, but as BC would say, “Anyhoo….”

  7. 7.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 13, 2019 at 4:08 pm

    *Charge of The Gaslight Brigade*Manu Raju: "Why is it ever okay for an American president to ask a foreign power to investigate a political rival? Why do you think that’s okay?"Rep. Debbie Lesko: “He didn’t. He didn’t do that.”The President didn't. He didn't do that. pic.twitter.com/uUJgG9K7iz— toma (@tomablogger) December 13, 2019

  8. 8.

    Lapassionara

    December 13, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    @Baud: so thanks for posting that good information.

  9. 9.

    Kent

    December 13, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    Well, it looks like the Dems got hosed on the recent defense bill so I guess this one was the exception.

  10. 10.

    Yutsano

    December 13, 2019 at 4:10 pm

    @Baud: As a fed, it will be interesting to see how the family leave is going to work. There’s a lot of federal workers who don’t necessarily have family that would qualify under the new leave rule, and benefits are supposed to be spread to the workforce as equitably as possible. Should make the next round of bargaining very entertaining should this pass.

  11. 11.

    Leto

    December 13, 2019 at 4:12 pm

    Nobody wins with a colostomy bag :(

  12. 12.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 13, 2019 at 4:13 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: ? I suppose there was no “Russia, if you’re listening…” moment either, according to these gaslighting a-holes.

  13. 13.

    hells littlest angel

    December 13, 2019 at 4:15 pm

    Pelosi is one of the best political leaders this country has ever had.

  14. 14.

    piratedan

    December 13, 2019 at 4:16 pm

    labor standard enforcement is kind of a big deal, if all worker standards are raised and adhered to, less motivation for companies to pick up or offshore, so that’s actually a big-Biden-deal.   Now, it may be post Trump before any of this gets actually honored and monitored but getting it on the books is a good thing imho.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    It’ll be interesting to see if Warren and Bernie decide to support NAFTA 2.0 or say it’s not good enough.

  16. 16.

    zhena gogolia

    December 13, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    @hells littlest angel:

    I am so proud of Pelosi, Schiff, Swalwell, Himes, Neguse, Demings, Harris, Murphy, Hirono, and a host of other Democrats in Congress. WE HAVE THE BEST PEOPLE. Just hands down — smarter, nicer, better. I wish it could keep me from despairing.

  17. 17.

    MaxUtil

    December 13, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    Can someone explain how the changes to NAFTA 2.0 work? This is a trade deal between Canada, the US and Mexico. How do negotiations between congress and the administration then make it into a trade treaty without consulting the other two countries? Or is it just domestic aspects of the agreement that they’re making changes to?

  18. 18.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    @zhena gogolia: You’re funny.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:21 pm

    @MaxUtil: That’s a good question.  I don’t know the mechanics.

  20. 20.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    December 13, 2019 at 4:23 pm

    I think the most important factor is the AFL-CIO and United Steel Workers are in favor of it.

  21. 21.

    Gravenstone

    December 13, 2019 at 4:23 pm

    @Olivia: Um, that federal leave was ostensibly traded for Trump’s Space Farce! Surely Collins wouldn’t want to deprive Dear Creeper of one of his signature items?

  22. 22.

    The Moar You Know

    December 13, 2019 at 4:24 pm

    Sets a goal of 25% renewable energy for military facilities by 2025, and the DoD is required to report progress.

    @Baud:  The usual suspects will holler and whine, probably not knowing that the DoD is totally on board with anything that will insure that they don’t literally run out of gas.  This is right up their alley, and they’ve already been instituting it.

  23. 23.

    Betty Cracker

    December 13, 2019 at 4:24 pm

    @Baud: That WILL be interesting! But if Sherrod Brown is for it, I’ve got to think it’s pretty pro-worker.

    Also, speaking of Sanders, he withdrew his endorsement of Uygur.

  24. 24.

    The Moar You Know

    December 13, 2019 at 4:26 pm

    How do negotiations between congress and the administration then make it into a trade treaty without consulting the other two countries?

    @MaxUtil:  They don’t.  But Mexico has already given what is essentially a blanket signoff on anything we choose to put into the USMCA.

    Canada has not, so that could get interesting.

  25. 25.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:26 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Thanks for the update on Cenk.  Do you know why?  Was there pushback?

  26. 26.

    zhena gogolia

    December 13, 2019 at 4:27 pm

    @Baud:

    Why?

  27. 27.

    NotMax

    December 13, 2019 at 4:29 pm

    Let a thousand taco trucks bloom.

    :)

  28. 28.

    clay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:29 pm

    This has been observed before, but the media (and many others) are simply not prepared to deal with a compulsive liar like Trump.  Most politicians will spin, and fudge a number here or there, but most of the time when an elected official makes a claim, it’s based off of SOMETHING.  And so your typical journalist might look at that claim about Ivanka and think, well that number may be off by a bit, but the real number must be something close to that.

     

    But there is no real number!  It’s completely fabricated!!  It isn’t even something that can be fact checked — there’s nothing to check!

     

    There was an article in (I think) Forbes a while back that talked about this.  The author talked about covering Trump in the ’80s and ’90s. And Trump would send in his (supposed) net worth for their list, and they would think, well it might be off by a few percentage points, everyone does that, it’s no big deal.

     

    And the author described how it eventually dawned on them — no, it’s not off by a little bit.  His claims might be fully double what Trump was actually worth.  But he got away with it for so long because none of them ever imagined that he would bullshit that much.

     

    We see the same thing happening now, in real time.  Trump says he’s about to close a deal with China — people react like there’s something there.  After all, a President wouldn’t say something like that unless it were true!  But he’s been “about to close a deal” for almost three years now!  The media is structured to treat a President’s Statements as Very Important, not as complete bullshit.  Something has to give, but I don’t know if it will.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:31 pm

    @zhena gogolia: You seem simultaneously enthusiastic and pessimistic at the same time.  It’s like you have a devil and an angel on your shoulder competing for you attention.

  30. 30.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:31 pm

    @MaxUtil: 

    Canada and Mexico were kept informed and were part of the negotiations through out the process, and encouraged the changes, to the point that less than 4 hours after Nancy had garnered the votes for NAFTA 2.1, both Canada and Mexico had signed the new agreement.

    Mexico had already ratified NAFTA 2.0 so 2.1 should just fly through the process.

    Canada had tabled NAFTA 2.0 for a ratification vote, but the election intervened. NAFTA 2.1 should face even fewer hurdles in ratification.

  31. 31.

    Patricia Kayden

    December 13, 2019 at 4:32 pm

    Trump reelected will be Trumpism unleashed, across the country and the world. Impeachment is essential but unlikely to remove him, leaving 2020 as the best hope to limit the damage. The Dems can follow the Corbyn path of the self-righteous martyr or win.— Garry Kasparov (@Kasparov63) December 13, 2019

  32. 32.

    sdhays

    December 13, 2019 at 4:32 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: She’s technically correct. The President demanded an announcement of an investigation of a rival. He didn’t care about an actual investigation because any supposed wrongdoing wasn’t even part of the point.

  33. 33.

    Betty Cracker

    December 13, 2019 at 4:32 pm

    @Baud: [Trying this again since the last comment was a code train wreck] TONS of pushback. Here’s the statement:

    .@cenkuygur has been a longtime fighter against corruption. However, our movement is bigger than any one person. I hear my supporters who were frustrated and understand their concerns. Cenk today said he is rejecting all endorsements for his campaign and I retract my endorsement.

    — Bernie Sanders (@BernieSanders) December 13, 2019

    Kind of passive-aggressive too, what with the “Cenk is rejecting all endorsements.” Uygur said he wouldn’t accept any FURTHER endorsements, and Sanders took that opportunity to walk it back.

    His organization is just godawful at vetting, in every respect. How many people have they had to cut loose? And there are plenty on board who SHOULD be cut loose, including the comms director who outs rando Twitter critics. This tells me Sanders would be a really shitty president.

    ETA: Code still fucked up but less so. [insert eyeroll emoji…]

  34. 34.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:33 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

     

    the Corbyn path of the self-righteous martyr

    I thought that was my path.

  35. 35.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    He’s awful.  I am also saddened and ashamed that we constantly ding other candidates for long-ago transgressions, but nobody has the courage to call Bernie to account for the acknowledged sexism and racism of his 2016 campaign.

  36. 36.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    December 13, 2019 at 4:35 pm

    @Baud:

     

    Update: Bernie Sanders withdrew his endorsement of California congressional candidate Cenk Uygur after reports about the online talk show host making crude and degrading comments about women and provocative statements about Jews, Muslims and other groups. https://t.co/tjEJeQhnju
    — Los Angeles Times (@latimes) December 13, 2019

  37. 37.

    Mary G

    December 13, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    @zhena gogolia: I agree. I think all these proceedings have been excellent free advertising for the Democratic Party. And I enjoy all the “progressives” on Twitter who spend all their time calling Nancy SMASH names yelling “SQUIRREL” about other stuff right now.

  38. 38.

    gene108

    December 13, 2019 at 4:36 pm

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I suppose there was no “Russia, if you’re listening…” moment either

    That was a joke, locker room talk. Quit being such a snowflake.

  39. 39.

    Betty Cracker

    December 13, 2019 at 4:37 pm

    @clay: You’re right on all counts. But this time, the Chinese also say there’s a deal in principle, so maybe it’s really true. The last several times Trump made the claim, China either disputed that or remained silent…

  40. 40.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:37 pm

    I truly believe the best things in life are a result of being bold and being real. I’m proud to endorse Elizabeth Warren today, for being bold, for being real, for listening to ALL of us, and for being prepared to navigate the unique challenges we face today as a country @ewarren pic.twitter.com/9hX3gQYjvo— Megan Rapinoe (@mPinoe) December 13, 2019

  41. 41.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:37 pm

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch:

     

    provocative statements about Jews, Muslims and other groups.

    Interesting that he gets reported on like a Republican would.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:38 pm

    @Jay:

    Oooh.  Good get.

  43. 43.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 13, 2019 at 4:40 pm

    @clay: Yeah, when I saw an alert on my computer about Phase I of a China deal, I said I’ll just wait until I see some paper with Xi’s signature on it.  Trump is the king of vaporware(old term for software that endlessly hyped but never makes it to market).

  44. 44.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:41 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: It wouldn’t surprise me if there’s a deal.  It would surprise me if the deal is fair to the U.S.

  45. 45.

    smintheus

    December 13, 2019 at 4:41 pm

    The only thing that matters about any deal with China is whether there are effective teeth to punish China when it renegs/obstructs/forgets to enforce all the provisions it agreed to. With Trump there was never going to be any meaningful enforcement mechanism, and now that he’s in panic mode over impeachment he’ll probably agree to adding teeth to punish the US when China renegs.

  46. 46.

    Kay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    But it isn’t going to help us politically and it is going to help Trump. So if what you’re saying is win/win I can accept that. Democrats got concessions on a trade deal in exchange for Trump getting a political win.

    that’s the trade off. The political value is to Donald Trump and more than Trump- it’s to midwestern Republicans, so senate seats too.

  47. 47.

    FelonyGovt

    December 13, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Ted Lieu as well. Hopefully he is now recovering after his heart procedure.

  48. 48.

    zhena gogolia

    December 13, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    @Baud:

    I do!

  49. 49.

    Cacti

    December 13, 2019 at 4:44 pm

    Jonathan Chait with another inconvenient take on the parallels between the Corbynites and the far left of US politics:

    American Leftists Believed Corbyn’s Inevitable Victory Would Be Their Model

    The British election results, like any election results, are the result of unique circumstances and multiple factors. They are also, however, a test of a widely articulated political theory that has important implications for American politics. That theory holds that Corbyn’s populist left-wing platform is both necessary and sufficient in order to defeat the rising nationalist right. Corbyn’s crushing defeat is a decisive refutation.
    Many writers, not only on the left, detected parallels between the rise of Corbyn and the movement around Bernie Sanders. The latter is considerably more moderate and pragmatic than the former, and also not laden with the political baggage of Corbyn’s widely derided openness to anti-Semitic allies. And yet many leftists have emphasized the similarities between the two, which are indeed evident. Both built youth-oriented movements led by cadres of radical activists who openly set out to destroy and remake their parties. Both lost in somewhat close fashion, Sanders in 2016 and Corbyn the next year. And fervent supporters of both men treated their narrow defeats as quasi-victories, proof of victory just around the corner.

    Corbyn also had Wilmer’s formal endorsement.

    Go figure.

  50. 50.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:44 pm

    China’s vice-commerce minister, Wang Shouwen, said in a late night briefing on Friday that the US had agreed to cancel some of its existing tariffs on Chinese goods, while Donald Trump tweeted that the two countries had agreed to a “very large Phase One Deal”.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/13/china-confirms-phase-one-trade-deal-us-tariffs

    So, that’s about it for now from the Chinese view.

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    December 13, 2019 at 4:45 pm

    Okay, everyone else can drop out now:

    I truly believe the best things in life are a result of being bold and being real. I’m proud to endorse Elizabeth Warren today, for being bold, for being real, for listening to ALL of us, and for being prepared to navigate the unique challenges we face today as a country @ewarren pic.twitter.com/9hX3gQYjvo

    — Megan Rapinoe (@mPinoe) December 13, 2019

  52. 52.

    Kay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:45 pm

    I went to a D political event last night and they trust Sherrod so they aren’t unhappy with the trade deal. But to a man or woman they all think the political value is to Trump. I agree. I think that’s obviously true.

    So if it’s “substance over politics!” okay. We know how well that works :)

  53. 53.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:46 pm

    Supreme Court granted cert. on Trump’s subpoena cases. Good thing the House didn’t wait on the courts.

  54. 54.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm

    Immigrants held in Immigration and Customs Enforcement jails around the US received medical care so bad it resulted in two preventable surgeries, including an 8-year-old boy who had to have part of his forehead removed, and contributed to four deaths, according to an internal complaint from an agency whistleblower.

    The allegations appear in an explosive Department of Homeland Security memo, obtained by BuzzFeed News, containing reports of detainees being given incorrect medication, suffering from delays in treating withdrawal symptoms, and one who was allowed to become so mentally unstable he lacerated his own penis and required reparative surgery.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/ice-immigrant-surgeries-deaths-jails-whistleblower-secret

  55. 55.

    smintheus

    December 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm

    @Baud:  Ever so slightly better than calling them “contentious” or “colorful”.

  56. 56.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:49 pm

    Iz our Media learnin?

    Andy Ngo wrote an op-ed about "Antifa's deadly year" … in which he cited examples of antifascists getting murdered by non-antifascists to demonstrate how violent antifascists are. Seriously, @Newsweek? What even is this? pic.twitter.com/uTHR945BXl— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) December 13, 2019

    Hard no.

  57. 57.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:51 pm

    We are in no way ready for this:

    Great report by @marcowenjones on how two back-to-back disinformation campaigns — “both of which appeared to benefit the Conservatives” — spread across social media platforms and into mainstream media in the crucial days & hours ahead of #UKelection2019.https://t.co/SbOIv1gwcc— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) December 13, 2019

  58. 58.

    Betty Cracker

    December 13, 2019 at 4:52 pm

    @Kay: If any kind of deal is a win for Trump, I guess that’s true. My original WTF reaction was based on reports that the new deal was just reshuffling the NAFTA deck chairs so Trump could claim victory. But it sounds like Trump wanted XYZ but got force-fed ABC. He’ll still call it a win, of course. (He calls everything a win.) But maybe you’re right, if it indeed improves his (and other Republicans’) prospects and doesn’t let Dems make the case that they’re the ones who got the goodies for workers.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:52 pm

    And I feel like you can tell the political value is to Trump- that’s why Sherrod is reassuring his supporters that it’s a good deal.

    Trump doesn’t have to sell this- he was at “zero”- anything is an improvement. Democrats have to sell it to their voters. Trump could have scribbled on a napkin with a Sharpie and the Trumpsters would have supported it. It’s all upside for him.

  60. 60.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:53 pm

    One of the most significant stats of the election. 88% of the Facebook ads put out by the Tories contained a lie.To paraphrase John Bercow: “the lies have it, the lies have it”#ElectionResults2019 pic.twitter.com/iYyQ4nsUS0— David Schneider (@davidschneider) December 13, 2019

  61. 61.

    Mary G

    December 13, 2019 at 4:54 pm

    @Baud: Do you follow any women on Twitter?

  62. 62.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 13, 2019 at 4:55 pm

    @Kay: Democrats would have been painted as obstructionist if they’d not agreed to a deal they liked on substance.  If you watched the Judiciary committee hears that was the Republican line.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:55 pm

    @Baud: We’ll find out in June whether the president is above the law (when not being sued by Paula Jones).

  64. 64.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 4:55 pm

    @Mary G: I don’t really do political twitter.

  65. 65.

    hilts

    December 13, 2019 at 4:57 pm

    OT

    Mayor Buddha Was Part of McKinsey Team That Pushed Postal Service Privatization

    h/t https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pete-buttigieg-mckinsey-postal-service_n_5df3dca0e4b0ae01a1e00863

  66. 66.

    Kay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:57 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t know because I don’t know what the “Wyden-Brown” mechanism is. I assume it’s an enforcement method because that’s what trade deals lack- the only enforcement method that works is tariffs.

    All I heard was Trumpka saying he got 16 dollars an hour for new-hire auto workers. That’s not a meaningful concession. I mean, it is in Mexico, which is great, but it’s probably a wage cut in Canada and a break even in the US. Of these three countries Canada would be the “gold standard” on workers- despite US claims to be the “gold standard”, we’re not. We’re like the..bronze standard.

  67. 67.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 13, 2019 at 4:58 pm

    @sdhays: Comey interference 2016 was going to be Ukraine interference 2020.

  68. 68.

    Cacti

    December 13, 2019 at 4:58 pm

    @Baud: We’ll find out in June whether the president is above the law (when not a Democrat).

     

    FTFY

  69. 69.

    Kay

    December 13, 2019 at 4:59 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I don’t believe “obstructionist” is valid politically for one simple reason- Democrats said it about Republicans all thru Obama’s two terms and it made not a bit of difference. No one cares about “obstructionist” other than political media.

    So you have to give me something else :)

  70. 70.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2019 at 4:59 pm

    We’ll have to wait to see the details, but it looks like Team Xi hosed Team Trump.

    Trump’s trade war with China has always been stupid.  It has no meaningful goals.  And yet the GOP will continue to give him props for this.

    I would like to see something about the projected impact on the remainder of the holiday shopping season on removing/not applying tariffs.

    News: Sens. Sherrod Brown and Ron Wyden will endorse the USMCA shortly, citing the inclusion of labor standards enforcement they pushed for the deal.

    In 25 years in Congress, Brown has *never* voted yes on a trade deal, until now.

    Interesting.  I would like to know more why this is a big deal, and what the ramifications for the Democrats are.

     

    Of course, isn’t the other side of this the fact that Trump also gets a massively bloated defense bill approved?

  71. 71.

    Kay

    December 13, 2019 at 5:00 pm

    But I am glad Sherrod is talking about it because if it has to be sold to Democrats (and it does) he would be a credible salesperson.

  72. 72.

    Nicole

    December 13, 2019 at 5:01 pm

    The Mary Sue has a pretty good summary of the vote yesterday for those of us in the colonies.

    https://www.themarysue.com/uk-votes-conservative-labour-snp-brexit/?utm_source=mostpopular

    One thing that stuck out- 18 million voted against Johnson, and 14 million voted for, but due to the number of parties, the votes against Conservatives (because to this Yankee, they seem to be more different from the Tories than they are different from each other) were divided.  The bit in the article is from a tweet by someone saying this is why we need ranked voting, but it’s also a reminder that a multi-party system comes with its own issues (since I know “third party! third party!” is a clarion call to a certain type of voter here).

  73. 73.

    gene108

    December 13, 2019 at 5:01 pm

    @Cacti:

    Sander’s 2016 loss to Hillary wasn’t close.

    Hillary got 55% of the vote to Bernie’s 43%.

    He had a stronger showing, than anyone expected, but he was out of it be early spring.

  74. 74.

    gene108

    December 13, 2019 at 5:02 pm

    @Cacti:

    Sander’s 2016 loss to Hillary wasn’t close.

    Hillary got 55% of the vote to Bernie’s 43%.

    He had a stronger showing, than anyone expected, but he was out of it be early spring.

  75. 75.

    germy

    December 13, 2019 at 5:02 pm

    Bernie Sanders has retracted his endorsement of @cenkuygur in #CA25 pic.twitter.com/koa0bMlElt— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) December 13, 2019

     
    So there was frustration and pushback.

  76. 76.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 13, 2019 at 5:03 pm

    @clay: clay, They. Don’t. Care.

    This is the same media that spent the 2016 election screaming about 3 fucking emails, read from a hacked email dump on the air, and vomited hours of Dump’s empty podium onto voters’ TVs even if Clinton or Sanders was giving a speech at that very moment.

  77. 77.

    Percysowner

    December 13, 2019 at 5:04 pm

    @Baud: Eh, I’m somewhat convinced the Court will find a way to hold off making a decision until AFTER the election. If Trump wins, then he gets everything he wants. If he loses then it’s open season on subpoenaing Presidents.

    I hate the fact that I no longer trust our court system, but thanks to McConnell and Trump, there it is.

  78. 78.

    gene108

    December 13, 2019 at 5:04 pm

    @Kay:

    Problems that come from actually wanting to govern, and not just rule to handout patronage to your benefactors.

  79. 79.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 5:07 pm

    @Percysowner: I don’t see how they’ll be able to put it off.  Roberts would know how that would look.

  80. 80.

    Mary G

    December 13, 2019 at 5:07 pm

    @Baud: There was pretty much a shitstorm of blowback consisting of clips of horrible things Cenk has said about women where I hang out.

     

    Here’s a Jezebel article about him from today:

    And Uygur’s history of making sexist and derogatory comments about women (as well as his penchant to throw around the N-word) is not exactly a secret. In fact, in 2017, the progressive group Justice Democrats kicked Uygur, a founding board member, out of the organization after it was revealed that Uygur had written some incredibly sexist blog posts in the late 1990s and early 2000s. “We do not feel that Mr. Uygur is fit to lead or participate in an organization that truly believes women’s issues and the issues of black and brown people are all of our issues,” Justice Democrats executive director Saikat Chakrabarti, who would go on to become Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff, said at the time.

    Here’s some of what Uygur, who was in his late 20s and early 30s at the time he authored these blogs, wrote (per HuffPost):

    “Obviously, the genes of women are flawed,” Uygur wrote in a 1999 post lamenting the inadequate amount of sex he was having while living in Miami, Florida. “They are poorly designed creatures who do not want to have sex nearly as often as needed for the human race to get along peaceably and fruitfully.”

    In a 2002 entry in which Uygur described the “rules of dating,” he specified that “there must be orgasm by the fifth date.” And in a 2003 column, he described drunken revelry at Mardi Gras in New Orleans, Louisiana, where he “kissed over 23 different women, saw and felt countless breasts.”

  81. 81.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 13, 2019 at 5:09 pm

    @Cacti: Haha, 4.1 million more primary votes is close in Chait’s eyes.  That’s adorable.

    She beat him like a rented mule, and he had no chance at the nomination come May.

  82. 82.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 5:09 pm

    @Percysowner: Roberts would know how that would look.

  83. 83.

    JPL

    December 13, 2019 at 5:09 pm

    @Baud: Is there a non political twitter?

  84. 84.

    danielx

    December 13, 2019 at 5:09 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yowsah! Now THAT is a top shelf endorsement.

    Also, too, since the shitgibbon’s followers proudly proclaim they believe anything and everything he tells them, I hope he tells them they can walk on water. Today.

  85. 85.

    m.j.

    December 13, 2019 at 5:11 pm

    I don’t really care for the name. It replaces a unified North America with borders. Also, I can’t get the Village People out of my head.

  86. 86.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    @Mary G: I hope Bernie doesn’t get away with just “retracting” his endorsement, but he probably will.

  87. 87.

    Fleeting Expletive

    December 13, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    @Baud: This seems to be a huuuge tarpit the Supremes will find themselves in, in that they’ll have to contemplate some bottom line separation-of-powers issues that no one right now is prepared for.  This is some scary constitutional shit.  I just left MSNBC, their legal hot take people, the ones on deck for the previous segment, seemed genuinely astonished.

    How did the cert vote go when they agreed to take up this question?

  88. 88.

    mrmoshpotato

    December 13, 2019 at 5:15 pm

    @Baud: Supreme Court granted cert. on Trump’s subpoena cases. Good thing the House didn’t wait on the courts.

    Cert?  And are you being sarcastic about the courts?  I can’t tell.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 5:16 pm

    @JPL: Aren’t there some accounts that focus on dogs and cats?

  90. 90.

    Fleeting Expletive

    December 13, 2019 at 5:17 pm

    @Baud: This seems to be a huuuge tarpit the Supremes will find themselves in, in that they’ll have to contemplate some bottom line separation-of-powers issues that no one right now is prepared for.  This is some scary constitutional shit.  I just left MSNBC, their legal hot take people, the ones on deck for the previous segment, seemed genuinely astonished.

    How did the cert vote go when they agreed to take up this question?

     

    @Percysowner:

  91. 91.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 5:17 pm

    @Fleeting Expletive: They never announce who voted for cert, but it only takes four, so it’s possible Roberts was forced to take this.

  92. 92.

    cokane

    December 13, 2019 at 5:19 pm

    People are not going to vote for Trump based on a trade deal passed a couple of weeks before Christmas.

    Trump being a corrupt and awful president doesn’t preclude getting some necessary stuff done.

    People need to calm the hell down about the electoral consequences of this deal. It’s not going to be an issue come October/November 2020. It’s barely being covered by the news right now!

  93. 93.

    Miss Bianca

    December 13, 2019 at 5:19 pm

    @Betty Cracker: God, I must be old/out of it. I have no idea who this is.

  94. 94.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2019 at 5:19 pm

    @Nicole:

    One thing that stuck out- 18 million voted against Johnson, and 14 million voted for, but due to the number of parties, the votes against Conservatives … were divided.

    This is somewhat misleading.  You’re not talking about a national vote, but a vote in numerous constituencies.

    The Conservatives were annihilated in Scotland. But Corbyn lost constituencies which had voted Labour since the beginning of time.

    You also have things like the continuing righteous oddity of Sinn Fein winning 7 seats, but refusing to sit in Parliament.

    I am not sure that proportional voting would have been any better, but I would like to see someone run alternative numbers. The noxious BREXIT Party did not win a single seat. I wonder how they might have done under a different voting system.

     

    ETA: One wild thing I got from watching the news. The candidates in the various constituencies had to all stand together, so you got to watch those who lost stand and deal with their defeat when the vote was finally announced.

  95. 95.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 5:20 pm

    @Fleeting Expletive:

    If the Supremes rule for Trump in the Vance case, we’ll probably need a constitutional amendment.  The other case will probably just lead to the restoration of the House prison, since they won’t be able to enforce their subpoenas anymore.

  96. 96.

    TS (the original)

    December 13, 2019 at 5:20 pm

    @Baud: For trump, the China deal is why he created the tariffs in the first place.

  97. 97.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    December 13, 2019 at 5:21 pm

    @Baud: which means they’ll likely sit on a ruling until the last week in June, before they break for the summer.

  98. 98.

    Baud

    December 13, 2019 at 5:21 pm

    @David ??Booooooo?? Koch: It’s not even going to be argued until March.  It’ll definitely be among the very last opinions.

  99. 99.

    randy khan

    December 13, 2019 at 5:22 pm

    @Kay:

     

    The Union sign off tells me it will be politically helpful to the Dems as well.

    And with all the reporting about Trump giving away the store, he may not benefit that much.

  100. 100.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    December 13, 2019 at 5:25 pm

    SCOTUS will craft a nuanced ruling stating Congress can only subpoena Democratic office holders and IOKIYAR

  101. 101.

    Ruckus

    December 13, 2019 at 5:25 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    He is 78 thousand yrs old, without the benefit of having done anything positive his entire career, just the sort of person who would be a real replacement for trump. All his so called wonderful ideas, how is he going to get one of them made into law? I mean what experience does he have of at least trying to get anything passed as a law? Does he even know any one in congress?

  102. 102.

    Jeffro

    December 13, 2019 at 5:25 pm

    @Lapassionara: Watching Ivanka promote family leave and job creation yesterday (well, I watched the clip yesterday…no idea what day it was that she actually got behind a podium) scared the crap out of me.

    If the GOP ditches the corrupt tangerine and starts putting smiling, pretty faces up there that lie about all the right things while looting the country blind…we’re going to end up looted and blind.

     

    Looted-er and blind-er, that is.  Completely looted and blind?  You know what I mean.

  103. 103.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 5:28 pm

    @Brachiator:

    NAFTA 2.1 “internationalizes” some wage, worker protections and environmental standards across borders. As a result, there is less benifit for Corporations to shop for the lowest environmental and labour costs for some products.

    while a Ford “plant” might move jobs from Canada or the US to Mexico, because of commonality and efficiencies created by the construction of a new plant in Mexico, they won’t be moving as many jobs around due to lower wages, benifits and environmental costs, ( if enforced).

    NAFTA and NAFTA 2.0/2.1 have supernational Trade Courts which can be used if a country, Corporation or other actor is not in compliance with, or fails to address NAFTA 1.0, 2.0, 2.1 Trade rules.

    The WTO would also be a regulatory body, except that the US has broken the WTO compliance system, has refused to allow it to be fixed, so everybody else , other than the US, has agreed that a shadow WTO compliance system will be used instead.

    The only upsides for the Democratic Party is an economic stabilization, a NAFTA 2.1 that is a bit more “fair” to trade, workers and the environment than NAFTA 1.0, includes trade forms that didn’t exist/have changed since NAFTA 1.0, and if they can sell it, credit for not allowing Trump to blow up NAFTA or trash a working system that is the key foundation of North American industry and trade.

  104. 104.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2019 at 5:30 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Looted-er and blind-er, that is.  Completely looted and blind?  You know what I mean.

    Ha! Yeah. The ongoing Trump con requires more descriptive superlatives for their audacious thievery.

  105. 105.

    Jeffro

    December 13, 2019 at 5:31 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I’ll take an “LFG” t-shirt, size XL, plz Liz and Megan.  Sign me up!

  106. 106.

    randy khan

    December 13, 2019 at 5:33 pm

    @Percysowner:

    That’s my working theory about what will happen. Any decision during the 2020 election cycle would be dangerous for the Court.

  107. 107.

    Betty Cracker

    December 13, 2019 at 5:34 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Soccer goddess and activist. Led the US team to World Cup victory this year.

  108. 108.

    WaterGirl

    December 13, 2019 at 5:34 pm

    @Baud: Bernie gets away with pretty much everything.  Why would this be different?

  109. 109.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 5:34 pm

    @Brachiator

    The noxious BREXIT Party did not win a single seat. I wonder how they might have done under a different voting system.

    Brexit bailed on the Election handing everything over to the Tories and UKIP,

    Until 11 November, many had assumed that Nigel Farage’s Brexit party was revving up for a general election. But that morning, Farage told an audience of supporters and journalists in Hartlepool that his Brexit party would be standing down in 317 Conservative-held seats to avoid splitting the leave vote. The audience was stunned; there was muted applause after he finished.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/brexit-party-nigel-farage-boris-johnson-labour-leavers

  110. 110.

    Kent

    December 13, 2019 at 5:35 pm

    @Kay: Honestly, I don’t think it makes any difference what Dems do or don’t do and what the truth is or what was actually contained in NAFTA2.  Trump is going to like like mad about it like he does everything and it will just become noise.  We are way way past the boy who cried wolf with Trump.  Fox and the rest of the RW media are going to praise him regardless.  And will attack dems regardless.  There is, of course, benefit in doing the right thing.  But don’t expect any credit for it.

  111. 111.

    Ryan

    December 13, 2019 at 5:35 pm

    Kim of North Korea knows Florida Man is up for re-election.  I wonder what he’ll want to not cause mischief.

  112. 112.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    December 13, 2019 at 5:36 pm

    The Deutsche Bank & Mazars cases stem from congressional subpoenas (Financial Services & Oversight, respectively). The other is a grand jury subpoena from Manhattan DA Cy Vance. All of the subpoenas seek Trump’s personal financial records.

     

    The cases are about Dump’s taxes and financial records, not Congress’s overall subpoena power.   SCOTUS will issue a narrow ruling striking down the tax laws saying if you can force someone to turn over their tax returns then you can force them to eat broccoli.

  113. 113.

    WaterGirl

    December 13, 2019 at 5:36 pm

    @Baud: My prediction, which is worth absolutely nothing, is that they will delay a ruling until whatever they decide has absolutely no impact on the outcome.

  114. 114.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 5:38 pm

    America, wondering what UK election means for 2020? Think: zero idea what is going on in real time. Zero idea who is being targeted with what data. Zero idea who is placing 1/3 ads. Mainstream media still being gamed. Lies absolutelyfuckingeverywhere. Like Britain except worse— Carole Cadwalladr (@carolecadwalla) December 12, 2019

  115. 115.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 5:40 pm

    .@holden summed up Pinterest's algorithm problem pretty nicely in this piece, in which he explained how in less than 15 minutes, a new user "could move from pins on 'How to Make the Perfect Egg' to something out of the Infowarverse."https://t.co/L4yEum9yEK— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) December 13, 2019

  116. 116.

    randy khan

    December 13, 2019 at 5:42 pm

    @Baud: Just come up with some question that requires additional briefing. They can make it look legit.

  117. 117.

    Philbert

    December 13, 2019 at 5:46 pm

    @WaterGirl: Bingo, the Court hopes something, anything, will happen to make their decision moot. LIke just f’rinstance LEAKS.

  118. 118.

    trnc

    December 13, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    @Brachiator: Trump’s trade war with China has always been stupid. It has no meaningful goals.

    Sorry, this is wrong. The goal has been

    – a combo of nationalist crap posing as policy

    – a platform for lying about Obama trade

    – a plausible reason for making trade announcements large enough to sway the markets, preceded by e-mini trading that potentially were timed with trade announcements that, in some cases, were patently false

    Remember, DT always risks other peoples’ money for his deals, and now he has ours to play with. He personally comes out on top no matter how any given deal turns out.

  119. 119.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    @DFRLab's Secondary Infektion is a good case study, where we found disinformation moving from one platform to the other. From weird internet forums to Reddit to Medium and finally on Facebook. https://t.co/bAOP62ZZSj— Kanishk Karan (@KaranKanishk) December 13, 2019

  120. 120.

    debbie

    December 13, 2019 at 5:48 pm

    @Baud:
    Did you see this tweet:

    Here’s some back of the napkin math on China deal:

    China agrees to buy $50B of ag products next year, increase of $29B from pre-tariff trade.

    Tariffs cost U.S. farmers $11B. Then taxpayers put up $28B in emergency ag payouts.

    So…we lost/spent $39B. Gained $29B.

    Nice work!
    — Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) December 13, 2019

  121. 121.

    Miss Bianca

    December 13, 2019 at 5:49 pm

    @Betty Cracker: *googles*

    Oh, HER! Wow! Yeah, all right!

  122. 122.

    trollhattan

    December 13, 2019 at 5:50 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    The both have the right enemies, that’s for sure!

  123. 123.

    debbie

    December 13, 2019 at 5:52 pm

    I emailed Nancy Pelosi’s office and thanked her for guiding her caucus throughout the impeachment hearings. I then asked her to do what she could to strip Gohmert of his committee assignments because he BROKE THE LAW by revealing the whistleblower’s identity during the nationally televised hearings on Wednesday night.

  124. 124.

    trollhattan

    December 13, 2019 at 5:53 pm

    @Jeffro:

    Heh! “Warren 2020, LFG!” would be an epic slogan.

    Also, “Warren 2020, game day best day” might could work.

  125. 125.

    Ruckus

    December 13, 2019 at 5:54 pm

    @Nicole:

    Our system doesn’t reward third parties so the vast bulk of folks fall into one of our two parties. Parliamentary systems are designed to have more than 2 active parties. It allows you to vote however you want and elect representatives but requires cooperation to form an actual government. In the end it’s six of one/half dozen. At least that’s my take.

  126. 126.

    debbie

    December 13, 2019 at 5:55 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

     

    I listened to NPR interviewing Rapinoe while out walking (around 3:30pm). I don’t know when it was actually taped, but she said she wasn’t ready to endorse anyone. ¿Huh?

  127. 127.

    Shana

    December 13, 2019 at 5:56 pm

    @Baud: I’m seeing the SC agreeing to hear arguments on the tax documents subpoenas not the testimony the House is/was trying to get.  Your comment kind of makes it sound you were referring to the latter.  Am I misinterpreting?

  128. 128.

    Ruckus

    December 13, 2019 at 5:56 pm

    @Baud:

    You think that most of them care? I’m not sure, especially if they think they get to rewrite or just write history.

  129. 129.

    gene108

    December 13, 2019 at 6:01 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Parliamentary systems the Party controls, who gets to stand for seat, who the leaders will be, etc.

    You don’t get primaries to choose, who will contest the election.

    The Party is an actual, centrally, controlled entity and unless you put your time in working for the Party,  you don’t get a say in what the Party does.

    This allows Parties to be more tightly focused, if they don’t think they cannot appeal to a broader group of the electorate.

  130. 130.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2019 at 6:03 pm

    @Jay:

    NAFTA 2.1 “internationalizes” some wage, worker protections and environmental standards across borders. As a result, there is less benifit for Corporations to shop for the lowest environmental and labour costs for some products.

    In the long run, I think this a futile gesture.  You cannot protect jobs in a global economy. Automation and frictionless relocation is becoming easier and more efficient. Investment moves easily to where it is most profitable.  Free movement of people is not a total solution, but it may be better than trying to “save” jobs.

    The WTO would also be a regulatory body, except that the US has broken the WTO compliance system, has refused to allow it to be fixed, so everybody else , other than the US, has agreed that a shadow WTO compliance system will be used instead.

    This is one of the great under-reported business news stories of recent weeks.  And I don’t think that Trump was smart enough to come up with this idea all by himself.  But throttling the WTO definitely works to Trump’s advantage in trade issues.

    The only upsides for the Democratic Party is an economic stabilization, a NAFTA 2.1 that is a bit more “fair” to trade, workers and the environment than NAFTA 1.0, includes trade forms that didn’t exist/have changed since NAFTA 1.0, and if they can sell it, credit for not allowing Trump to blow up NAFTA or trash a working system that is the key foundation of North American industry and trade.

    Sadly, most people will view this solely as a Trump victory, making the Democrats come around to his way of thinking.

  131. 131.

    Bill Arnold

    December 13, 2019 at 6:07 pm

    @Jay:

    <blockquote>We are in no way ready for this:</blockquote>

    Getting there though. An order of magnitude faster and vigorous targeted responses would make it a real fight/have an significant blunting effect.  Have those accounts been properly characterized yet?

     

     

     

    @Jay:

  132. 132.

    chris

    December 13, 2019 at 6:08 pm

    @Miss Bianca:Deleted. I should read more closely.

  133. 133.

    WaterGirl

    December 13, 2019 at 6:08 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Did you see her acceptance speech earlier this week?  She is a powerhouse off the field, as well as on.

  134. 134.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    December 13, 2019 at 6:18 pm

    @trollhattan: Warren FC!

  135. 135.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 6:20 pm

    @debbie:

    as I posted upthread, China says that all that Trump’s yuuge trade deal consists of is removing the tariffs on Chinese goods.

     

    there is no quid pro quo.

  136. 136.

    Jay

    December 13, 2019 at 6:33 pm

    @Brachiator

    In the long run, I think this a futile gesture. You cannot protect jobs in a global economy. Automation and frictionless relocation is becoming easier and more efficient. Investment moves easily to where it is most profitable. Free movement of people is not a total solution, but it may be better than trying to “save” jobs.

    We have had versions of this in North America since the 1980’s. Free movement of labour doesn’t work, because the movement isn’t free, and the movement of labour is used to drive down wages and benifits.

    Free Trade blocks are not about “free trade” they are about regulated trade within a fixed trading block.

    Workers will never be able to move anywhere near as fast as capital, which can jump the globe in a fraction of a second.

    NAFTA 2.1 comes closer to ensuring that all the players inside NAFTA 2.1 are bound by the same rules, and that trade deals with partners outside of NAFTA cannot undercut NAFTA.

    In a globalised world where free trade is actually fully free, 1% of the world will be like the Hamptons and 99% will be Somalia.

  137. 137.

    Kathleen

    December 13, 2019 at 6:34 pm

    @Nicole: I’m playing comment catch up this evening and I was hoping I’d see you on a recent thread. I just want to send healing light to you and let you know you are in my prayers. Please take good care of yourself. I hope you have the energy to work on your writing and podcasting. Exercising your creativity and experiencing your brilliance would be healing for you. Besides, our creative power is our greatest weapon against this darkness, both the personal and the political.

  138. 138.

    West of the Rockies

    December 13, 2019 at 6:55 pm

    @germy:

    Dicks arose, ensued, were stepped upon…

  139. 139.

    Brachiator

    December 13, 2019 at 7:00 pm

    @Jay:

    We have had versions of this in North America since the 1980’s. Free movement of labour doesn’t work, because the movement isn’t free, and the movement of labour is used to drive down wages and benifits….

    Workers will never be able to move anywhere near as fast as capital, which can jump the globe in a fraction of a second.

    One of the principles of the EU is the free movement of people. I noted that this is not a perfect solution to the ability of capital to move instantaneously, but it is an attempt to provide some kind of remedy.

    In a globalised world where free trade is actually fully free, 1% of the world will be like the Hamptons and 99% will be Somalia.

    Not necessarily.  And the world is globalized. This is reality.  And in the long run, you cannot really protect jobs.  We have to rethink this issue. There is no easy answer.

  140. 140.

    J R in WV

    December 13, 2019 at 9:03 pm

    @Baud:

    @Percysowner: Roberts would know how that would look.

    But would Roberts CARE how that would look? Some think not…

  141. 141.

    burnspbesq

    December 13, 2019 at 10:15 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Trump also gets a massively bloated defense bill approved?

    That hardly makes Trump unique. “Massively bloated defense bill” is redundant.

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