Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let me file that under fuck it.

They want us to be overwhelmed and exhausted. Focus. Resist. Oppose.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

Welcome to day five of every-bit-as-bad-as-you-thought-it-would-be.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

In after Baud. Damn.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Let the trolls come, and then ignore them. that’s the worst thing you can do to a troll.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

If you don’t believe freedom is for everybody, then the thing you love isn’t freedom, it is privilege.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

“Just close your eyes and kiss the girl and go where the tilt-a-whirl takes you.” ~OzarkHillbilly

You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment Inquiry / Impeachment Open Thread: I’m All for Making the Oval Office Occupant Suffer, As He Does to Us

Impeachment Open Thread: I’m All for Making the Oval Office Occupant Suffer, As He Does to Us

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  2. 2.

    Hildebrand

    Not that this will happen, but I would really like to see the Senate Republicans get royally thwacked because their fearless leader said that he will vote to acquit regardless of evidence.

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    Got to wonder about those people in the ‘impeach but not remove’ bucket. Is this the ‘if we send him a sufficiently strongly worded letter, he’ll stop doing crimes’ theory? Seems a tad poorly thought out.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    At this point, polls don’t really matter, but it’s nice to see there’s no reason not to impeach.

  8. 8.

    Gvg

    @dmsilev: I think those might be people who are trying to please other people or who are surrounded by GOP or maybe in the middle of a split family. Also possibly not understanding the question, or not being aware of what the constitution actually allows.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    @NotMax:

     

    I think Pelosi has set the right attitude about the gravity of the situation. It’s good to see the House enforcing constitutional standards but I hope more prominent places like Twitter don’t get too flip in expressing their understandable joy about holding Trump accountable.

  10. 10.

    Kent

    @dmsilev:Got to wonder about those people in the ‘impeach but not remove’ bucket. Is this the ‘if we send him a sufficiently strongly worded letter, he’ll stop doing crimes’ theory? Seems a tad poorly thought out.

    Clinton was impeached but not removed.  For a certain strain of low engagement voter that might seem the middle road solution.

  13. 13.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Also far more are viewing GOP conduct as political than Dem. conduct.

    If this is true, then just imagine how “acquittal” in the Senate will go for Republicans and Trump, at least in the short-term

  16. 16.

    Hildebrand

    @Lapassionara: I am with you.  Pence is a stiff, has negative charisma, is deeply weird, and generally unlikable.  He will never be able to keep Trump’s Magats together.

  17. 17.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Lapassionara:

    @Baud:

     

    Makes one wonder why McConnell et al are so keen on keeping Trump in office. Is it really because they’re afraid of their base, they don’t want a repeat of 1974, or something more nefarious? I honestly don’t know at this point

  18. 18.

    Lapassionara

    @Baud: Pence has the charisma of a turnip. Part of Trump’s appeal is his celebrity. I wonder sometimes how many people just thought he would be an ok president because he had been a reality tv star. Anyway, that is my reading of the zeitgeist.

  21. 21.

    Baud

    U.S. Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer proposed in a letter released on Sunday that at least four witnesses including acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and former national security adviser John Bolton be subpoenaed to testify in the expected impeachment trial of President Donald Trump.

     

    In the letter to Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Schumer proposed that Mulvaney and Bolton be subpoenaed for the trial expected in January along with a Mulvaney adviser, Robert Blair, and a budget official, Michael Duffey.

  22. 22.

    debbie

    I was surprised there wasn’t more outrage when Trump shrugged off the news about Russia’s suspension for doping by saying we probably did it too.

  24. 24.

    Kent

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):Makes one wonder why McConnell et al are so keen on keeping Trump in office. Is it really because they’re afraid of their base, they don’t want a repeat of 1974, or something more nefarious? I honestly don’t know at this point

    I think they are afraid of the feeding frenzy that will occur when he is gone and they all start to eat their own.  It will be U G L Y.

  32. 32.

    Belafon

    @Baud: We should applaud that Trump is getting impeached, and stay angry at Republicans for refusing to do their constitutional duty.

  33. 33.

    geg6

    @Kent:

    I think this is a large part of it.  But there is also the usual cult behavior if going down with dear leader, regardless of the craziness dear leader has unleashed.  Think of all the Peoples Temple people who drank the Flavorade, even though in their more rational moments they knew Jim Jones was nuts.  Or the Nazis in the bunker who knew it was over even as Hitler ranted about how they could still win this thing. They are so far in that they can’t see a way out.

  34. 34.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Lapassionara:

    The 1974 midterm elections. The GOP lost a lot of seats following Watergate. They received no electoral benefit from (eventually) voting alongside Democrats to impeach Nixon and later participate in the trial in the Senate. Of course, they never voted for removal because Nixon resigned, probably because he knew the Senate had the votes.

    All of this is to say, the GOP learned the wrong lessons from Watergate and see removing Trump, even if he’s unstable and is actively endangering civilization as we know it every day he sits in the White House, as the worst possible move they could make

  35. 35.

    Baud

    @Belafon: Agreed.  We love to snark and mock, myself included, and it’s often a great approach to deal with what’s going on, but I don’t want us to act like this is entertainment for us.  It’s something I have to remind myself about as well.

  36. 36.

    Mike in NC

    Every time I inadvertently see and/or hear Fat Bastard ranting on my TV or PC, I can feel a brain cell die.

  37. 37.

    Amir Khalid

    @Hildebrand:

    Alas, I concur that this isn’t going to happen. McConnell is a partisan Republican first and last (and indeed exclusively nothing but) so no one ever expected him to say any different.

  38. 38.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Kent:

    That’s definitely part of it and ties into what I’ve said in comment 34. They know the whole thing will collapse if they “do the right thing”, which let’s face it, some of them don’t view as the right thing to do at all. Trump would go nuclear on them.

  40. 40.

    ThresherK

    The narrative of the past week — that impeachment is hurting Democrats broadly…

    I sorta missed that narrative. Was anybody who wasn’t an idiot making it?

  41. 41.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    That’s sort of why I can hardly ever go on LGM. The commentariat there is sometimes too cynical in my opinion to the point of fatalism

  43. 43.

    Kay

    My neighbor saw me in the driveway tonight and came over to tell me to give her a yard sign when there’s a D nominee in a kind of blunt, desperate way that made me laugh because I recognize it- she wants to tell someone sympathetic that she’s mad. Her husband is a surgeon and they have 5 (grown) kids. I always assumed she was an R (most of my neighborhood is) – maybe she is an R.

    I’ll be sure and get her one. I love that she doesn’t care who the nominee is – more people should admit that :)

  44. 44.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Yarrow:

    He wasn’t? Thanks for correcting me. Huh. He really folded like cheap suit then, didn’t he? Then again, I’m sure the writing was on the wall since both chambers had Democratic majorities in the 93rd US Congress

  47. 47.

    geg6

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    He had two choices.  One was to fight it out and be removed.  The other was to take the advice of the group of GOP senators, including Goldwater and Hugh Scott, who told him he didn’t have the votes and was definitely going to be removed.  I think he’d have fought it out but the senators pretty much took all the air out.  He knew he was toast.

  48. 48.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    (Mostly) non-politics aside, since this is an open thread:

    I just got back from seeing Knives Out.

    Go see it. If you like murder mysteries at all, go see it. Don’t read anything else about it; just go see it. The less you know about the story going in, the more it’ll delight you. In terms of plot, it’s basically Agatha Christie for 2019; in terms of content, you get incisive commentary on the American class system, racism, immigration, and more. It’s one of the best films I’ve seen this year, and I’ve seldom come out of the cinema feeling more elated.

    Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

  50. 50.

    geg6

    @John Revolta:

    Yes, he and Hugh Scott, who was the Senate Minority Leader at the time and for years after.  There were some other senators, too, but Goldwater and Scott were the heavy hitters.

  51. 51.

    artem1s

    @Kay:

    she wants to tell someone sympathetic that she’s mad.

    I remember how much people wanted W gone. Even though this has been exhausting, I’m encouraged how much those who want tRump gone, want him gone NOW.

  52. 52.

    Juice Box

    @Hildebrand: Somewhere in the last few days I read that every senator who voted against convicting Andrew Johnson either retired or was voted out of office at their next election. Every single one.

  53. 53.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @planetjanet:

    As often informative but very cynical to the point of fatalism. As in “the GOP is going to emulate the PRI in Mexico during most of the 20th century and establish a defacto one-party state, a period known as, ‘the perfect dictatorship'”.

  54. 54.

    Dan B

    @Lapassionara:  Not with you on Pence being unelectable and not as dangerous.  A lot of GOP’ers are tired of Trumps drama and are likely to believe that Pence quiet demeanor and Christian “morality” would make all the arguing and incivility stop.  Pence would nothing more than making all the Geyz invisible and the scary Trans women go away – lock up the scariest…  And his racism and extreme dislike of immigrants, only the brown ones of course is a deal breaker for me.

    I believe Pence has been active in selecting judges that would love to turn many of The Handmaids Tale aspects into American reality.  I’m not sure he’s bright enough to do this slowly.  He seemed to turn off “Liberal Hoosiers” by pushing too hard and being too dogmatic.

  55. 55.

    Ladyraxterinok

    We have messages like this from JimBakker being watched daily by millions of people–Bakker said ‘they’re trying to impeach him on the basis of the anonymous testimony of 1 whistleblower–it’s like calling in a homeless guy off the street and trying to convict somebody with that. Ie, according to Bakker there was zero  testimony of ambassador, military expert, etc

     

    This is the view heard and believed by those whose only info is from shows like this,

    After a long rant, Bakker ended with shouted claim ‘it’s unconstitutional!’ And he got his audience to raise both arms and shout that in agreement.

    And he told reps to see how people thought about this and reminded reps that these people VOTE!

  56. 56.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    “But it was made by Ruin Johnson! Rey is a total Mary Sue!

    /s

    @geg6:

    @John Revolta:

     

    Yes. The Dems controlled both chambers so it was pretty much a foregone conclusion at that point. I find it interesting he would have fought it out under those conditions. It took members of his own party to tell him he was fucked. Those stories of him talking to the portraits in the WH at night must have some validity if he thought he had a shot of brazening out Watergate

  57. 57.

    NotMax

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Once the tapes were made public any purely partisan divide narrowed considerably.

    Also too, he resigned before a floor vote on impeachment at least partially in order to still inarguably be eligible for pardon once out of office (that there was a pre-resignation deal made with Ford is beyond doubt).

  58. 58.

    Kay

    @artem1s:

    I don’t know that she’s an R but if she is I like that she’ll let Democrats pick the nominee. Oh, whichever- you choose – just get RID of him. That’s the spirit!

    The Never Trumpers online are so bossy about it. Annoying.

  60. 60.

    Geoduck

    @(((CassandraLeo))): Small bonus with Knives Out for any child of the 70s or 80s; the name of one of the main characters is a deliberate reference to the Choose Your Own Adventure book/murder mystery “Who Killed Harlowe Thromby?”

  61. 61.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: not everyone is keen on the devil we don’t know.

     

    My RWNJ dad calls him “Mullah Pence”, no lie.

    As if trumpov is somehow less devoted than Pence to his right-wing fundy base!

  65. 65.

    Bill Arnold

    @(((CassandraLeo))):

    I just got back from seeing Knives Out.
    Go see it. If you like murder mysteries at all, go see it. Don’t read anything else about it; just go see it.

    Likewise (well, last night). (Then go home and realize that it is … less clear.)

  66. 66.

    Duane

    @Jeffro: People start paying attention when the Senate hearings begin, realizing this could actually happen. Support for impeachment should increase, his approval decrease and his craziness redline.

  67. 67.

    Bill Arnold

    @Ladyraxterinok:
    Poking at his wikipedia entry, I see:

    In his 1996 book, I Was Wrong, he admitted that the first time he actually read the Bible all the way through was in prison. Bakker also wrote that he realized that he had taken passages out of context and used them as prooftexts to support his prosperity theology.

    That suggests some interesting flexibility. I wonder if he could be turned/convinced to turn against DJT.
    Maybe he’s totally ossified since 1996, but maybe not.

  69. 69.

    joel hanes

    @dmsilev:

    Got to wonder about those people in the ‘impeach but not remove’ bucket.

    Very unfortunately, many people seem to feel that the important thing in politics is “optics” : appearance and tone of voice, instead of outcomes.

  70. 70.

    joel hanes

    @Hildebrand:

    The evangelicals will be solid for Pence.  They don’t care about political charisma — they care about being able to impose their own “moral” standards on the rest of us, and Pence has always been strong for that — it was pretty much his entire political identity in Indiana.

    Evangelicals are a substantial chunk of Trump’s base.

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