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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / McConnell weasels out on witnesses

McConnell weasels out on witnesses

by Betty Cracker|  December 17, 201911:37 am| 208 Comments

This post is in: Foreign Affairs, Impeach the Motherfucker!, Open Threads, Politics, Trump Crime Cartel

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Breaking from The Post:

[Senate Majority Leader Mitch] McConnell on Tuesday rejected a call from his Democratic counterpart to subpoena new witnesses to testify during a Senate impeachment trial.

Speaking on the Senate floor, McConnell said the request by Schumer on Sunday was “dead wrong” and suggested that the House’s case against Trump is “deficient.”

“We certainly do not need jurors to start brainstorming witness lists for the prosecution,” McConnell said, referring to the role of senators during the trial.

Of course, if senators were really jurors, McConnell would be stricken from the panel since he told Sean Hannity last week that he’s letting Trump’s lawyers set the terms of the trial and has prejudged the outcome. Extending the analogy McConnell is (dishonestly) using at the moment, the House Managers, who will serve a role similar to prosecutors in a Senate impeachment trial, should be able to call witnesses as prosecutors do, but McConnell will surely find another excuse to bar witnesses if that happens.

Meanwhile, Rudy Giuliani is now telling anyone who will listen that he was driving U.S. foreign policy in Ukraine. That’s a hell of a thing to brag about since he’s also said on camera that his only role in Ukraine was to serve Trump’s personal interests (via TPM):

Giuliani told the Times that he informed Pompeo and Trump that Yovanovitch was blocking visas for Ukrainian officials who were trying to come to the U.S. to share “evidence” with him that could bolster his conspiracy theories surrounding Biden and his son Hunter Biden. The pressure campaign to push Ukraine to probe the Biden is at the center of the House’s impeachment inquiry, with articles of impeachment set for a vote in the House on Wednesday.

Giuliani also told the Times that he told Trump about rumors that Yovanovitch spoke poorly of him. Giuliani’s remarks to the Times pull Trump deeper into the inner folds of efforts to recall Yovanovitch from Ukraine. In a New Yorker profile published Monday, Giuliani fully admitted he wanted the veteran ambassador “out of the way” because she was making it difficult for him to pursue his investigations.

He took it a step further during an interview with Fox News’ Laura Ingraham on Monday evening, taking full ownership of her demise — “I forced her out because she’s corrupt” — and baselessly claiming he had records that prove she committed “perjury” during her House impeachment testimony, citing documents related to the denial of a visa to the Ukrainian prosecutor at the heart of the Biden probe scheme.

“There’s no question that she was acting corruptly in that position and had to be removed, she should’ve been fired if the State Department weren’t part of the ‘deep state,’” he said.

(Emphasis mine.) This was all on TV. Will the House Managers be able to introduce video evidence? I have no idea, but here’s hoping the Senate trial produces wider public exposure to that facet of the Crackpot Dome Scandal. It plays well in MAGAland, but it’s so obviously stupid and corrupt that it has the potential to embarrass Republicans in front of non-brainwashed people.

Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

208Comments

  1. 1.

    Lapassionara

    December 17, 2019 at 11:42 am

    I thought the Chief Justice presided over the Senate impeachment proceedings. Why does McConnell get to decide whether there are live witnesses?

  2. 2.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 11:45 am

    I have zero faith in the media to deliver the contents of these proceedings accurately to the public. Obviously I’d like to see a full trial with as many fireworks as possible, but without the Democrats pursuing a media strategy other than “expect the New York Times to give us good headlines”, how much does it matter?

    This is not to say we shouldn’t do it. But it would be nice to see an actual media strategy, with big ad buys and lots of social media stuff. If only there were somebody like Tom Steyer who likes to spend millions on this sort of thing.

  3. 3.

    tobie

    December 17, 2019 at 11:49 am

    I found this statement from McConnell in the NYT even more damning:

    [I]n remarks on the Senate floor on Tuesday morning, Mr. McConnell said there was no reason for the Senate to take testimony from officials who might bolster Democrats’ case against the president.

    They know witnesses would implicate Trump so they just won’t call them and instead will put their fingers in their ears and will babble, “Lalalalalalalala” and then run to the cameras and say Democrats just want to undo the election.

  4. 4.

    Betty Cracker

    December 17, 2019 at 11:53 am

    @Major Major Major Major: I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the impeachment media coverage I’ve seen so far. Of course, there are truly no good, awful and terrible examples of both-sidesing, etc., particularly in the analysis pieces. But as far as the substance of the House witness testimony goes, it was better than I anticipated, TBH…

  5. 5.

    Ocotillo

    December 17, 2019 at 11:55 am

    Trump cheated customers (Trump University)

    Trump cheated on his taxes (NYT article)

    Trump cheated on his wife (Stormy and McDougal)

    Is there any doubt he will cheat in an election?

    He is currently cheating the country with his slimy business deals.

    Dems need to repeat this over and over until he is sitting in jail.

  6. 6.

    Emerald

    December 17, 2019 at 11:56 am

    I cannot WAIT to see Giuliani frog marched off to prison. I cannot WAIT.

  7. 7.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 11:56 am

    @Betty Cracker: I guess I probably only see the bad stuff that people complain about.

  8. 8.

    Brachiator

    December 17, 2019 at 11:57 am

    “There’s no question that she was acting corruptly in that position and had to be removed, she should’ve been fired if the State Department weren’t part of the ‘deep state,’” he said.

    So, the entire State Department is part of the “deep state?”

    It is very unsettling to watch these goons declare the entire government, with the exception of the president and his GOP loyalists, to be illegitimate.

  9. 9.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 11:58 am

    @Betty Cracker: Peter Baker– whom fellow Villager Chait once called conservative-leaning– has been out-doing himself, and others at the Times seem to be have seen Baud’s FTFNYT posts and responded, “Oh yeah? We’ll show you some fucking stupid!”, but the WaPo and MSNBC (the more centristy day crew, as opposed to prime time) have been doing a good job, and even CNN, which I think of as The USAToday for TV, seems to be doing a good job from the clips I saw

    ETA: Y’all see the piece the other day that reported as fact that Debbie Wasserman-Schultz had rigged the primary debates against Bernie, and that’s why Tom Perez was fucking up so badly?

  10. 10.

    The Moar You Know

    December 17, 2019 at 11:59 am

    Obviously I’d like to see a full trial with as many fireworks as possible

    @Major Major Major Major: It’s not a trial.  Totally different process with rules largely made up for the occasion.

  11. 11.

    oatler.

    December 17, 2019 at 11:59 am

    Collins is working himself into a state. Does this mean Gohmert is next up?

  12. 12.

    cmorenc

    December 17, 2019 at 12:00 pm

    But…but…the GOP didn’t get to call Monica Lewinsky as a witness in Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial, did they?  They didn’t even get to bring the semen-stained dress onto the floor of the Senate.  So why should the dems get to call Mick Mulvaney to show off Trump’s dirty underwear?

    OK, I apologize if I caught anyone fresh out of brain bleach.

  13. 13.

    Elizabelle

    December 17, 2019 at 12:04 pm

    Rick Gates got 45 days in prison, 3 years probation, and a $20,000 fine.  That is lenient.  He was smart enough to cooperate.

  14. 14.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 12:04 pm

    @The Moar You Know: The constitution literally refers to “try”ing an impeachment, as an action which is “tried” and presided over by a judge, with a possible result being “conviction,” I think it’s fair to call it a trial.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    December 17, 2019 at 12:05 pm

    Once the House votes for impeachment — and South Carolina Democrat Joe Cunningham just announced he’s a yes — when does the control switch to McConnell?

    Can Pelosi and her managers hold it a bit before sending it over to the Senate??

  16. 16.

    pat

    December 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm

    “Crackpot Dome Scandal”

    Perfect.

    I honestly can’t imagine what is going on at the State Department when they see Gouliani smear Yovanovich like this.  Will anyone have the courage to speak up?

  17. 17.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm

    America's still traumatized by Trump's victory & makes him out to be an unbeatable behemoth. Nonsense. He only won by 78K votes across 3 states. The GOP has shrunk. Ds got a blue wave in 2018. They won in LA, Kentucky & Virginia. Stop being hijacked by fear. Mobilize & fight.— Wajahat "Abu Khadija" Ali (@WajahatAli) December 17, 2019

  18. 18.

    Elizabelle

    December 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm

    FWIW:  even more than today’s impeachment marches and activities:  I think it would be very smart to participate in a bunch of at-office protests and demonstrations over the Congressional holiday.  Especially at the Republican offices.

    Let the GOP get a good earful of what real people — not just Twitter and the Fox universe — think.

  19. 19.

    The Moar You Know

    December 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm

    Can Pelosi and her managers hold it a bit before sending it over to the Senate??

    @Elizabelle:  They can hold it forever, if they like.

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    December 17, 2019 at 12:09 pm

    @The Moar You Know:   Thank you.  I suspect the Dem leaders will be strategic on that.

    I suspect impeachment (and conviction!) is a lot more popular in their districts than many Republicans would like to believe.  I would like to see them marinate in that over their break.

  21. 21.

    hitchhiker

    December 17, 2019 at 12:09 pm

    This morning I realized why this current era is so impossible to bear. I was a bright girl in the 50s and 60s. Easy As. Rabid interest in books, but grew up with none in the house, except a few religious things on a dusty shelf. (Lives of the Saints, friends, ain’t recommended reading for an impressionable 9 yr old.)

    At the end of high school, my guidance counselor looked at my test scores and asked me, straight up, whether I wanted to be a teacher or a nurse. Those were the options for a girl from the northern midwest who was good at school. (Neither, was my answer. No thanks.)

    Fast forward through a lifetime of answering to bosses who ranged from dumb as a rock to average, with the occasional relief of working with and for someone amazing.

    Now, today, every day, I have that old sense of being trapped in a room with very stupid people who are somehow in control of things. It’s maddening.

  22. 22.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 12:11 pm

    McConnell opposes impeachment witnesses now — but supported them during Clinton trial
    By Ted Barrett, CNN
    Updated 7:33 PM EST, Mon December 16, 2019

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/12/16/politics/mitch-mcconnell-impeachment-witnesses-flip-flop/index.html

    It’s day ending in “y” right?

  23. 23.

    rikyrah

    December 17, 2019 at 12:15 pm

    @Elizabelle:

     

    still waiting for Flynn’s sentencing

  24. 24.

    rikyrah

    December 17, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    this can’t be a shock to anyone

  25. 25.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    @tobie: They know witnesses would implicate Trump so they just won’t call them and instead will put their fingers in their ears and will babble, “Lalalalalalalala”

     

    I am not so sure we know that. I bet that fact witnesses such as Pompeo or Mulvaney will just lie.  I would expect them to commit whatever levels of perjury seem necessary – to them – to clear Trump. It may be a surprise to some, but even police officers – that sacred blue wall – have been rumored to lie in courtrooms.

  26. 26.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm

    When you read this stuff about Rudy Giuliani, keep in mind that he

    1. Is not a part of the civil service in government
    2. Has not been confirmed by the Senate
    3. Has not been elected.

    And we don’t know who’s paying his salary.

  27. 27.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    between the vote, and the formal notice to the Senate that the House is sending over the Articles of Impeachment, ( a whole ritualized process),

    there are no rules or requirements. The House can hand onto the Articles of Impeachment for a day, a month, a year, and can add as many new Articles as they want.

    <blockquote class=”twitter-tweet”><p lang=”en” dir=”ltr”>My colleague <a href=”https://twitter.com/kyledcheney?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw”>@kyledcheney</a> points out this interesting little nugget on page. 29 of the latest filing, where the House Judiciary Committee tells the court that it plans to continue its impeachment investigations beyond the immediate Ukraine-focused proceedings. <a href=”https://t.co/5Q5zkr4Nch”>pic.twitter.com/5Q5zkr4Nch</a></p>&mdash; Darren Samuelsohn (@dsamuelsohn) <a href=”https://twitter.com/dsamuelsohn/status/1206659285305958402?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw”>December 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src=”https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>

  28. 28.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 12:21 pm

    @cmorenc: The difference in 1998 was that there were no witnesses that had notably refused to speak to the investigators.

    It will not carry much weight when the description is that Democrats refused to hear witnesses in 1998.

  29. 29.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 12:21 pm

    @The Moar You Know: Once there’s an impeachment vote in the House, the Senate is free to try the impeachment.  There are Senate rules, but a majority of the Senate sets those rules.

  30. 30.

    joel hanes

    December 17, 2019 at 12:23 pm

    Open thread?  Swell.

    You know how the GOP-written law in Wisconsin was used to throw a couple hundred thousand eligible voters who “may have recently moved” off the registered voter rolls?

    Well, Wisconsin also has laws that allow those voters to re-register any time up to and including election day.   All we need is an organized campaign to identify those voters and help them get re-registered.

    And the Democratic Party of Wisconsin is doing just that.

    You can help.

    https://twitter.com/benwikler/status/1206606142593490944

  31. 31.

    MrSnrub

    December 17, 2019 at 12:23 pm

    I already knew how the vote was going to play out in the Senate, and for some reason I’m getting mad at it anyway.

  32. 32.

    Betty Cracker

    December 17, 2019 at 12:23 pm

    @hitchhiker:

    I have that old sense of being trapped in a room with very stupid people who are somehow in control of things. It’s maddening.

    Good description of our current predicament!

    I voluntarily moved back to the county I grew up in a while back. In many ways, it’s been good for me because I’m surrounded by nature, which I’ve always found soothing. But talk about stupid people in charge, good lord! Trump-worshiping idiots basically run the county government. It’s maddening.

  33. 33.

    debbie

    December 17, 2019 at 12:25 pm

    Where’s VDE when we need him: Wipe them all out.

    And while we’re at it, also whoever talked the Lead Idiot into turning Jews back into a race. I smell the stink of Stephen Miller’s paw prints all over this abomination.

  34. 34.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 12:26 pm

    @Jay:

    a whole ritualized process

    Ya see, that relies on adherence to rules and norms.  Moscow Mitch doesn’t believe in norms and can change the rules of the Senate with a majority.  We’re left with the text of the Constitution.

  35. 35.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 12:27 pm

    @Lapassionara: as I understand it, the CJ’s role is almost purely ceremonial. The Senate determines what the rules are by simple majority vote.

  36. 36.

    Kent

    December 17, 2019 at 12:27 pm

    @Ocotillo:Don’t forget:

    Trump cheated veterans and other charities with his fraudulent charity, the Trump Foundation

    Trump cheated donors with his fraudulent 2016 Trump Campaign

    Trump cheated taxpayers fraudulent billings from his many properties doing business with the government

    Trump cheated the American public with his illegal emoluments.

    Trump cheated his donors with his fraudulent Trump Inauguration Fund that mysteriously swallowed millions.

    Honest to God, there’s nothing with Trump’s name on it that doesn’t involve fraud.

  37. 37.

    Betty Cracker

    December 17, 2019 at 12:28 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: My guess is Giuliani was supposed to get a cut of that $1 million from Russia that landed Parnas in hot water. Plus a cut of the sweet deal Rick Perry swung for his supporters.

  38. 38.

    trollhattan

    December 17, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    @Lapassionara:

    He’s just there calling balls and strikes, donchano.

  39. 39.

    randy khan

    December 17, 2019 at 12:30 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    You’re exactly right – the Senate sets the basic rules for the trial, by a majority vote.  In Clinton’s case, the rules were negotiated and passed unanimously.

    Obviously, McConnell has some different ideas today.

    What’s most interesting to me is that this suggests that someone has convinced Trump that calling witnesses is a bad idea.  He was all for having Hunter Biden, etc. testify and turning it into a real circus just a week or so ago.  I wonder what changed his mind.

    (BTW, I agree with the point above that we don’t know what Pompeo, Mulvaney, & co. would say, although I have a feeling John Bolton is the kind of guy who’d cheerfully burn everything down given the opportunity.  My feeling about Schumer’s gambit was that, in part, he made it because he knew McConnell would say no, and he wanted to make the point about reasonable requests being denied and the Republicans having no interest in the truth.  Also BTW, there were witnesses at Johnson’s impeachment trial, something that I’m sure McConnell knows.)

  40. 40.

    Kent

    December 17, 2019 at 12:30 pm

    @catclub:I am not so sure we know that. I bet that fact witnesses such as Pompeo or Mulvaney will just lie.  I would expect them to commit whatever levels of perjury seem necessary – to them – to clear Trump. It may be a surprise to some, but even police officers – that sacred blue wall – have been rumored to lie in courtrooms.

    Maybe so.  But the statute of limitations on perjury doesn’t run out on January 2021.  Attorney General Harris will be happy to lock up all those motherfuckers with extreme prejudice.  No “bygones” on this one.  No fucking way.

  41. 41.

    Cheryl Rofer

    December 17, 2019 at 12:31 pm

    @Betty Cracker: And I’ll bet many more.

  42. 42.

    Kelly

    December 17, 2019 at 12:32 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    @hitchhiker:

    I have that old sense of being trapped in a room with very stupid people who are somehow in control of things. It’s maddening.

    Good description of our current predicament!

    I voluntarily moved back to the county I grew up in a while back. In many ways, it’s been good for me because I’m surrounded by nature, which I’ve always found soothing. But talk about stupid people in charge, good lord! Trump-worshiping idiots basically run the county government. It’s maddening.

    Same. I moved back to the timber country I grew up in. People are still mad about the spotted owl. Anything to protect the environment is regarded as a scam.

  43. 43.

    trollhattan

    December 17, 2019 at 12:33 pm

    @cmorenc:

    Trump’s dirty underwear presents a technical problem, not fitting into a standard banker box (1.2 ft cu).

  44. 44.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 12:33 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Rudy Nutti Tutti Frutti Colludy Noun Verb 9-11 is also Doltus’ “unpaid” Lawyer, ( if there’s no payment, is he Doltus’s Lawyer? Is there Client-Attorney, Executive? No), with out a Law License, ( so ex-Lawyer?),

    and has a burn rate of $16.2 million dollars a year just to keep up on debt payments and allimony, not including the lifestyle of the Rich and Famous.

     

    Gotta love that there inequality.

  45. 45.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 12:33 pm

    @The Moar You Know:

    Can Pelosi and her managers hold it a bit before sending it over to the Senate??

    @Elizabelle:  They can hold it forever, if they like.

    Well, technically, they can, by delaying a full House vote on the Articles of Impeachment. But once those Articles have been voted on, and assuming they pass, which seems likely, I think control passes to the Senate.

    Which is of course today totally controlled by one man, Moscow Mitch McConnell, the most despicable member of the Senate, followed closely by Lindsey Graham, Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

  46. 46.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 12:34 pm

    @randy khan:

    (BTW, I agree with the point above that we don’t know what Pompeo, Mulvaney, & co. would say, although I have a feeling John Bolton is the kind of guy who’d cheerfully burn everything down given the opportunity.)

    I think Pompeo would lie for Jesus without blinking a pause in his speech. Mulvaney and Giuliani are wildcards for the Rs because both are addlepated. I think Bolton wants trump taken down, but for a variety of reasons–like Lindsey, he wants to be “relevant” in politics and for both of them that means the Republican party, also he makes money through speeches and such with people who find trump vulgar but hate Elizabeth Warren with a  passion– doesn’t want his fingerprints on the knives. The only thing stopping him from testifying is his own stubbornness and self-interest.

  47. 47.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 12:34 pm

    @randy khan: The only thing the Constitution requires is that there be articles of impeachment passed by the House and that the Chief Justice be there to  preside over the trial(for the impeachment of a President).

  48. 48.

    Betty Cracker

    December 17, 2019 at 12:39 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: As Kay once put it, we’ve only lifted one corner of a very lumpy rug. Speaking of Rick Perry, former energy sec:

    NEW: Ukraine’s state-owned energy company Naftogaz has filed a lawsuit seeking to overturn a deal in which a US company co-owned by a former donor to Rick Perry got the rights to develop a huge complex of oil and gas fields while he was Energy Secretary https://t.co/UyCyXOapM5

    — Vera Bergengruen (@VeraMBergen) December 17, 2019

    Sometimes I feel like contacting random Ukrainians and apologizing on behalf of my grifty-ass bullying country.

  49. 49.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 12:41 pm

    @Jay:

    Rudi G is a member of the N Y state Bar. Sorry!

    I heard somewhere that his burn rate is under $250,000/month, which would put the annual rate under $3 million. But this is an IIRC thing, which I won’t swear to in a court of law.

    Have you ever tried using buckwheat flour to roll out a pie crust? I want to make a pecan pie for dinner at the Solstice party and at least a couple of folks are sensitive to gluten… buckwheat is gluten free, not being actually wheat.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    according to twitter, Jamie Raskin is lighting up the room

    Jesse Lee‏Verified account @JesseCharlesLee 22m22 minutes ago
    Raskin on “crimes” and high crimes: “Of course if you go back to the Richard Nixon case, we didn’t have to see that Richard Nixon had been convicted of burglary…before he was charged with abuse of power as a high crime and misdemeanor.”

  51. 51.

    Betty Cracker

    December 17, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    @Kelly: Ugh, that must be infuriating. But on the whole, do you feel like you did the right thing, moving back?

  52. 52.

    jonas

    December 17, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    Adam Entous’s New Yorker piece on Giuliani’s Ukraine scheme is really something to behold. You basically have a bunch of corrupt AF Ukrainian pols and oligarchs scrambling to regain a toehold in Kyiv and weasel out from under various kinds of legal jeopardy by sucking up to Giuliani and Trump with fabricated allegations against the Bidens. It’s a whole boatload of cray cray.

  53. 53.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 12:44 pm

    @J R in WV: does that include whatever it’s costing to keep the soon-to-be-third-ex-Mrs Giuliani quiet? I imagine Judi knows some stuff….

  54. 54.

    The Moar You Know

    December 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm

    I am not so sure we know that. I bet that fact witnesses such as Pompeo or Mulvaney will just lie.  I would expect them to commit whatever levels of perjury seem necessary – to them – to clear Trump. It may be a surprise to some, but even police officers – that sacred blue wall – have been rumored to lie in courtrooms.

    @catclub: I spent a decade in and out (largely out, thankfully) of courtrooms as a digital forensics expert witness.  Most people under oath, well, they lie.  Oddly enough, when I’d dismantle some idiot’s defense, and they’d been shown to have been lying their ass off, nothing ever happened.  I never saw one person get busted for perjury, even though I saw dozens commit it.

     

    Might be different on the criminal side, but on the civil side, where I worked, perjury just doesn’t seem to be a big deal.  Makes me wonder why they even bother having people take the oath.

  55. 55.

    jonas

    December 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm

    @J R in WV: I heard somewhere that his burn rate is under $250,000/month,

    I believe that was alleged in papers filed in his ongoing divorce proceedings.

  56. 56.

    sdhays

    December 17, 2019 at 12:49 pm

    @randy khan: I keep coming back to “these guys really aren’t very smart”. Yes, we don’t know what they’ll say, but we already have a lot of evidence collected and they haven’t been silent, so coming up with workable lies is pretty much beyond them at this point. That’s why the Republicans don’t want them to testify. Either they’ll get caught in simple, damning lies (because that happens regularly), or what they testify will be even more damning than the testimony collected in the House.

  57. 57.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    @The Moar You Know: anecdata, but I think it has some relevance to how a lot of people approach politics: I was on a jury for retrial that involved a new defense witness coming forward. Said witness on cross-examination admitted to having two felony convictions, one for perjury and the other for fraud. All my fellow jurors heard was that he had volunteered for two tours in Vietnam. This was in the late 90s.

    With the legal education I’ve since gotten from The Internet School of Law, I understand prosecutions for perjury are rare, and felony perjury even more so.

  58. 58.

    Just Chuck

    December 17, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    The Deep State seems to be running things a lot better than the real one.  I say we put them in charge.

  59. 59.

    sdhays

    December 17, 2019 at 12:52 pm

    @J R in WV: But this is an IIRC thing, which I won’t swear to in a court of law.

    So, good enough for a Republican Senate hearing.

  60. 60.

    Kelly

    December 17, 2019 at 12:55 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Yes, I’ve enjoyed rambling around in the mountains and rivers I grew up in. Cost of living is lower than the Portland metro area so I was able to retire several years earlier which has been priceless.

  61. 61.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

     The Internet School of Law

    Better Law School than Harvard, Yale, or Stanford; at least that’s the word on the internets.

  62. 62.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 12:57 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    there is a formal process for the House to send over the Articles of Impeachment, covering how the House formally notifies the Senate, after the vote, whom in the House membership is authorized to carry over to the Senate the Articles of Impeachment, and how the Articles are presented to the Senate and received by the Senate.

    Once formally received by the Senate, the Senate “Rules” and “norms aplly, except where Yurtle decides they don’t, so it’s really more of a “guideline”,…

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ojK9Q_ARE

     

    between the vote in the House, and the formal process of notifying the Senate of the results of the vote and formally sending over the Articles of Impeachment, there are no “Rules”, just a norm.

    The norm is 2-3 “business days”, ( 1 day to notify, 1 day to carry, sometimes 1 day because of a vote that goes late or rolls in early). Weekends and Holidays arn’t included in the norm for notice or delivery, nor are days when either the House or Senate or both, start recess.

     

    so, there is no “Rule” in the House, that says that the House has any mandated timeframe, in which they have to send formal notification to the Senate of the Results of the Vote on the Articles of Impeachment.

    The House can take as much time as they are willing to,

    no matter what non-Constitutional Lawyers opine on the Web or Faux Nuz.

    It’s called Impeach and Withhold, and there is precident for it.

  63. 63.

    sheila in nc

    December 17, 2019 at 12:58 pm

    @J R in WV: There are gluten-free piecrust recipes that use rice flour. May make a flakier crust than buckwheat.

  64. 64.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 1:02 pm

     

    Since this is as usual an open thread, and because Balloon Juice sponsors this kind of thing, I thought I would share some news from WSAZ TV here locally. I combined several reports from the TV station into this small news bit:

    Nearly two months after getting dog-napped from Butte, Montana, a dog found in our area is back home with his family late Monday night or very early this morning. Zeus was found in November in the Kroger parking lot in St. Albans. He was with a man named Jason Mounts, who has outstanding theft warrants in Montana. Mounts was arrested that night after police say he assaulted an officer and objected to being finger-printed.

    A Nitro humane officer dropped Zeus off at the Kanawha-Charleston Humane Association.

    When the shelter microchipped him, they found out Zeus was from Butte, Montana. That kicked off Zeus’ journey home, taking 30 volunteers to get him back to his family. Zeus, who’s a pit bull, was about eight hours into his journey, as of last Tuesday night, he was in the St. Louis area. He ate cheeseburgers from Wendy’s on the drive, and we are told he was a perfect gentleman.

    One volunteer is closing out Zeus’ journey. They are chauffeuring the pit bull the final 650 miles.  The pit bull’s owner says he was taken along with some other items while a “family friend” was staying with them around Halloween.

    He arrived shortly after midnight this morning, and had what looked like a pretty joyous reunion with his family in the film clip from WSAZ…

    I thought everyone would enjoy a little bit of good news like this. The puppy is really cute as you can see in a photo at the link up above.

  65. 65.

    Kelly

    December 17, 2019 at 1:02 pm

    @Betty Cracker: The currently maddening subject is wildfires. The locals are convinced we just need more logging. The long dry summers from climate change have nothing to do with it since climate change is a scam.

  66. 66.

    Hoodie

    December 17, 2019 at 1:03 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: True, but the current Senate rules give the CJ control of which evidence is admitted, relevance, etc.  McConnell will have to change the rules from that, but he has to make sure that he has 51 votes.  If you are an R senator up for election in 2020 in a purple state, the preferable outcome may be to have what at least appears to be a “fair” trial and vote to acquit.  Railroading the process may risk goosing the Dem base and even cause “both-sides” GOP leaners to get wobbly.  The fast track approach is also inconsistent with GOP messaging that there is insufficient evidence because, if it’s so insufficient, then it shouldn’t take that long and can be easily dismissed at trial.

    Seems to me that Dems should focus on those vulnerable GOP senators and pressure them to have a full trial, with the understanding that it’s fine if they want to call Joe and Hunter Biden as witnesses.  Personally, I’d love to see Roberts squirm with that one.  They’re obviously irrelevant to the issues in the case and will provide nothing of any significance.   It’s one thing to have Gym Jordan or Matt Gaetz spout off nonsense in a House committee hearing, another thing to make the Chief Justice participate in the nonsense.

  67. 67.

    MagdaInBlack

    December 17, 2019 at 1:05 pm

    @hitchhiker:

    Boy, that sounds just like my experience,from the guidance counselor on. Trapped in a room with stupid is a great description of the feeling.

  68. 68.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 1:06 pm

    @Jay: Is this “formal process” in the Constitution?  No?  It doesn’t matter then.

    ETA: Justice Garland would like a word with you about “formal process”.

  69. 69.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 1:08 pm

    @sheila in nc:

    @J R in WV: There are gluten-free piecrust recipes that use rice flour. May make a flakier crust than buckwheat.

    Thanks for the tip. I have buckwheat flour on hand for pancakes, but have never used rice flour before. I’m sure the grocery has it on the other hand.

  70. 70.

    Kathleen

    December 17, 2019 at 1:12 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: FTFNYT ran its Bernie Wuzzz Robbed piece about the about the same time Boston Globe  ran theirs. I found that unsettling.

  71. 71.

    ET

    December 17, 2019 at 1:13 pm

    Rudy’s lawyers are pulling their hair out.  Going on camera and saying that….. Was he ever a good lawyer himself or was he like tRump – all talk and bragging but no substance?

  72. 72.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 1:15 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    it is for Law, it’s not for becoming a Federalist Judge or continuing the Meritocracy of Dunces that run the US.

    on the Internet, not everybody can pretend to be a Crew Champion, a MVP Male Field Hockey Captain, but SAT scores, run Fake Charities, or buy the Deans a new Country Club.

    Internet Social Clubs also don’t result in “prestigious” Internships, no matter how hard the parents pimp the kid out, bury bodies, give character references at Senate Hearings, or backscratch, but racy online photo’s can help one enter the rareified air of  Epstein, Dershowitz, Ghoulianni, Barr and Weinstein.

  73. 73.

    sdhays

    December 17, 2019 at 1:16 pm

    @Kathleen: Isn’t the Boston Globe owned by the NYT Company?

  74. 74.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 1:17 pm

    @ET: I suspect Rudi has supreme confidence in a pardon, if any of the fabled “career prosecutors” at DoJ are ever allowed, or bold enough, to piss off Boss Barr by initiating a file. Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham would trip over each other trying to get to a camera to bemoan the political prosecution of America’s Mayor.

  75. 75.

    gene108

    December 17, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    @Jay:

    I try to remind people of that, but Trump has gotten away with so much, so out in the open, with undying Republican* support, it’s hard to remember how much broke  his way

    * Seems to be the only people the media interviews are Trump supporters, so their numbers seem larger than they are

  76. 76.

    sdhays

    December 17, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: If the President’s (not) personal attorney does it, it isn’t illegal.

  77. 77.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 1:18 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: no edit button today– that should read “pre-emptive pardon”, another norm waiting to be shattered

    ETA: on this comment, I have an edit button

  78. 78.

    Bobby Thomson

    December 17, 2019 at 1:21 pm

    Manafort didn’t kill himself. Too early?

  79. 79.

    Ruckus

    December 17, 2019 at 1:24 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Nothing should be a shock to anyone paying any attention. Either republicans really are this stupid or they decided that acting this stupid was the right thing to do. There is one other possibility, and that is that the are in it deep, all the way deep, and owe their souls and money to trump’s paymaster.

  80. 80.

    rikyrah

    December 17, 2019 at 1:33 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

     

    And, these frauds, cowards and traitors should never be forgotten

  81. 81.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 1:35 pm

    @J R in WV: Which is of course today totally controlled by one man, Moscow Mitch McConnell, the most despicable member of the Senate,

     

    Baloney. The majority leader is a creature of his majority. He does not tell them to do things they do not want to do.

  82. 82.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 1:37 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    Is this “formal process” in the Constitution? No? It doesn’t matter then.

    Some people don’t know or understand the hierarchy of these things. Constitution on top, Laws secondary to the Constitution, Rules usually secondary to Laws, when the law applies.

    But laws almost never overrule the Constitution, and the rules of the Senate ( and House ) only count until a majority of Senators (or congress critters) want to change them.

  83. 83.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 1:38 pm

    @Kent: No “bygones” on this one. No fucking way.

     

    I would like to agree with you.

    The history of the last Democratic administration is not reassuring on this.  Torture and financial crimes by powerful people got essentially ignored.

    Going after torturers was considered making political differences criminal – and the Democrats bought that.

  84. 84.

    sdhays

    December 17, 2019 at 1:39 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The whole preemptive pardon thing pisses me off. How on earth was that shit ever accepted as a real thing?

  85. 85.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 1:39 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA

    I. Whensoever the Senate shall receive notice from the House of Representatives that managers are appointed on their part to conduct an impeachment against any person and are directed to carry articles of impeachment to the Senate, the Secretary of the Senate shall immediately inform the House of Representatives that the Senate is ready to receive the managers for the purpose of exhibiting such articles of impeachment, agreeably to such notice.

    II. When the managers of an impeachment shall be introduced at the bar of the Senate and shall signify that they are ready to exhibit articles of impeachment against any person, the Presiding Officer of the Senate shall direct the Sergeant at Arms to make proclamation, who shall, after making proclamation, repeat the following words, viz: “All persons are commanded to keep silence, on pain of imprisonment, while the House of Representatives is exhibiting to the Senate of the United States articles of impeachment against —— —— ”; after which the articles shall be exhibited, and then the kids Presiding Officer of the Senate shall inform the managers that the Senate will take proper order on the subject of the impeachment, of which due notice shall be given to the House of Representatives.

    III. Upon such articles being presented to the Senate, the
    Senate shall, at 1 o’clock after noon of the day (Sunday
    excepted) following such presentation, or sooner if ordered by
    the Senate, proceed to the consideration of such articles and
    shall continue in session from day to day (Sundays excepted)
    after the trial shall commence (unless otherwise ordered by the Senate) until final judgment shall be rendered, and so much longer as may, in its judgment, be needful. Before proceeding to the consideration of the articles of impeachment, the Presiding Officer shall administer the oath hereinafter provided to the Members of the Senate then present and to the other Members of the Senate as they shall appear, whose duty it shall be to take the same.

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CDOC-99sdoc33/html/CDOC-99sdoc33.htm

  86. 86.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 1:42 pm

    @catclub:

    @J R in WV: Which is of course today totally controlled by one man, Moscow Mitch McConnell, the most despicable member of the Senate,

     

    Baloney. The majority leader is a creature of his majority. He does not tell them to do things they do not want to do.

    You seem to miss the point. The current batch of Republican Senators appear to be willing to be led around by McConnell, holding their ear. None of them have, so far, rebelled against McConnell’s desires in any tiny way.

    Now, that doesn’t mean 4 of them couldn’t get together with the Democratic caucus and overrule McConnell, even throw him out of the Majority Leader’s chair. But, really! How likely is that? Not for a femtosecond!

  87. 87.

    Betty Cracker

    December 17, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    @Kelly: People here think climate change is a scam too and will probably believe it until the water rises over their nostrils. I’m convinced the human race will go extinct from stupidity. Oh well. Glad you’re happy in your old home. I am too, aside from all the stupid people. :)

  88. 88.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 1:46 pm

    @Jay:

    And all that applies exactly as long as McConnell wants it to apply. The moment he wants to replace all those rules, he shows up with a new set of rules, and his caucus approves the change.

    Done deal.

    Remember the appointment of Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court? That never came to the floor for a vote. It was never taken up by the Judiciary committee, either. McConnell didn’t want it to happen, so it didn’t. Sometimes we can learn from things as they happen, sometimes some of us don’t.

  89. 89.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 1:48 pm

    @Jay: Those are Senate rules.  The Constitution allows each chamber of Congress to set it’s own rules.  Rules can be changed by majority vote of the members of the body.  The Senate doesn’t need the House to  concur on changing it’s rules.  So once the House impeaches someone, the Senate(via a simple majority) can change their rules to have a trial immediately(subject to the availability of the Chief Justice for a Presidential impeachment).

    So sure, those are the current Senate rules and how things have been handled in the past, BUT a simple majority of the Senate can change those rules.

  90. 90.

    TomatoQueen

    December 17, 2019 at 1:49 pm

    @sdhays: Yes, FNYT owns the FBGlob.

  91. 91.

    WhatsMyNym

    December 17, 2019 at 1:52 pm

    @J R in WV: GF pie crust recipes I’ve seen tend to use brown rice flour and some starch (potato and/or tapioca).  Still to lazy to try, since I can buy pre-made crusts in most grocery stores around here.

  92. 92.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 1:56 pm

    @Ruckus:

    “might as well be hung for a sheep or a lamb”.

    Once a ReThug steps up to defend Doltus on a minor issue, or dismisses the issue as minor they become trapped in a one direction gerbil wheel, because Doltus blows the minor issue up into a bigger issue.

    Backtracking and admitting errors, ( judgement, charater, law, etc) is anti-Deplorable, so the ReThug has to double down on the defence. It becomes a parade of deminishing returns.

    Because the first defence is based not in logic, morals, law, etc. but instead, nothing more than abandoning any principals they might have once held, ( deficit, debt, trade, National Defence, Warrior Worship, LEO worship, pocket “Constitution”, government intrusion, it’s an endless list) for nothing more than rank tribalism, there is no “ephipany” moment or sudden “enlightenment”.

    Should the ReThug “wake up” to the position they have put themselves in, they triple down because they think that if they dig deep enough, post Doltus, win or lose, they can hide the bodies.

    It worked after Dolt 43.

  93. 93.

    WhatsMyNym

    December 17, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    Are the “Refresh” and arrows no longer working on the blog?

  94. 94.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    @J R in WV: The current batch of Republican Senators appear to be willing to be led around by McConnell, holding their ear. None of them have, so far, rebelled against McConnell’s desires in any tiny way.

    So you agree that McConnell is not making them do anything they don’t want to do.

    I don’t think they are being led. McConnell is their front man, and he says and does what they want. If they had objections, he would change.

  95. 95.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 2:02 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    could be worse. In Alberta they think that the forest fires, even the Fort Mac ones are being deliberately started by Secret ISIS Sleeper Cells in a Secret 45,000 sq foot Mosque hidden somewhere in Fort MacMurrey.

    all part of a Global Islamic Plot to seize Alberta and install Sharia Law.

  96. 96.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 2:03 pm

    @WhatsMyNym:

    I can buy pre-made crusts in most grocery stores around here.

    Yeah, I have a box full of two pie crusts… but not gluten free. Do you see gluten free crusts packaged up in your grocery? My cousin has developed a sensitivity to gluten in his late adulthood, and I want to bake a pie he can enjoy…

  97. 97.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 2:04 pm

    OT: the federal employee raise.  It seems to me that the Democrats have fought harder for federal employees under Trump than they did under Obama.  The results certainly indicate that.  Obama had two years with pay freezes. So far I think Trump has zero.

  98. 98.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 2:04 pm

    @catclub: one thing the trump era has clarified for me: I used to think Susan Collins was a weak and dithering but sincere Eisenhower moderates, now I know she’ every bit the cynical R partisan McConnell is.

  99. 99.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 2:06 pm

    @catclub:

    So you agree that McConnell is not making them do anything they don’t want to do.

    No, I don’t agree with that, and I don’t see how you derived that thought from what I said. McConnell has them by the wallet and whatever evidence the Russian GRU holds against many of them.

    He might as well have a ring in their noses, and a leash on that ring. Look at Lindsey’s former hatred of Trump,which went away one day after a round of golf. I suspect Lindsey heard a bit of the scoop the GRU has on Lindsey, and decided to not go to jail.

  100. 100.

    trollhattan

    December 17, 2019 at 2:07 pm

    @Jay:

    Crazy talk. Everybody knows they’re mad excited to take over Quebec.

  101. 101.

    WhatsMyNym

    December 17, 2019 at 2:10 pm

    @J R in WV: Yes, they are GF, but I’m on the west coast.  Also. Whole Foods does their own GF baking. They have a bakery in the midwest that supplies all the stores with frozen goodies..

  102. 102.

    tomtofa

    December 17, 2019 at 2:11 pm

    @J R in WV: Haven’t done it myself, but there are enough recipes for it online to make it seem like a mainstream process.

  103. 103.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 17, 2019 at 2:12 pm

    @J R in WV:

    What a nice story with a happy ending.

  104. 104.

    sdhays

    December 17, 2019 at 2:13 pm

    @J R in WV: I originally thought that Lindsey’s deal was just wanting to survive his primary as usual, but he’s way past that at this point. They have something on him.

  105. 105.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 2:13 pm

    Potomac Conservancy comments after @TuckerCarlson says immigrants are making river dirtier: "We … feel compelled to respond to this groundless accusation not just because it’s factually incorrect, but because it’s racist plain and simple." https://t.co/rbJvKgPUI1— Oliver Darcy (@oliverdarcy) December 16, 2019

  106. 106.

    nyrobbin

    December 17, 2019 at 2:15 pm

    @Ruckus:

    Door number three.  They’re all in it up to their eyeballs.

  107. 107.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 2:17 pm

    lol, Andrew Yang’s healthcare proposal is out, and it’s all “telepresence” and “tort reform”

  108. 108.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 2:19 pm

    @trollhattan:

    see, if the Islamic Jihadists seize the two separatist Provinces, Alberta and Quebec, they will control all the tar, all the poutine, and 1/4 of all the illegal cigarettes and piss beer.

     

    Canada will have no choice but to surrender.

  109. 109.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 2:19 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I was, and remain, baffled by the Cult of Bernie. I can’t even get to baffled by the Yang phenomenon.

  110. 110.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 2:19 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

     

    He’s reliving his childhood, when those things are popular ideas.

  111. 111.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 2:21 pm

    @catclub:

     

    I think who is in control of the House is the real difference.

  112. 112.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 2:23 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    what?

    No Linux based WebMD?

  113. 113.

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ

    December 17, 2019 at 2:23 pm

    @hitchhiker: I can SOOOO relate to your experience.

  114. 114.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 2:26 pm

    another “front line” freshman for impeachment

    Rep. Cindy Axne‏Verified account @RepCindyAxne
    When I took the oath of office, I swore to protect the Constitution and our democracy. After carefully reviewing the evidence presented, it’s clear the President abused his power and obstructed justice.

    I think I heard someone say on TV this morning that Peterson may well be the only Dem voting against Impeachment. Josh Gottheimer of NJ, whom the Obama Bros were scorching on their podcast last week, is a yes on both articles.

  115. 115.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 2:27 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I used to think Susan Collins was a weak and dithering but sincere Eisenhower moderates, now I know she’ every bit the cynical R partisan McConnell is.

    Yes, but she plays weak dithering idiot SO well, doesn’t she?

  116. 116.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    December 17, 2019 at 2:30 pm

    @J R in WV: that nervous stammer and scared rabbit mien do help her play the stooge

  117. 117.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Excellent.

  118. 118.

    J R in WV

    December 17, 2019 at 2:33 pm

    @WhatsMyNym:

    Whole Foods does their own GF baking. They have a bakery in the midwest that supplies all the stores with frozen goodies..

    I’ m a long way away from any Whole Foods. If Kroger’s doesn’t have it, I’m on my own. I’ll let everyone know how the Buckwheat crust does. Not that Kroger’s doesn’t have rice flour, etc. They have lots of GF flours, but I already have the GF buckwheat flour.

    Interestingly, I recently learned that Whole Foods attempted to buy a facility across the highway from the biggest local Kroger’s, but wouldn’t bid high enough to interest the current owners. Sad, isn’t it?

  119. 119.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 2:37 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    the Cult of Bernie is easy,

    https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1173676299577176064?lang=en

    it’s personal narratives on the failures of Capitalism, a Festivus of sorts that is community building.

    Elizabeth Warren however interrupts the narrative stream with solutions.

    The Bernie Cult is the “I don’t want you to fix it, I just want you to listen” Cult.

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/skills-healthy-relationships/201606/stop-trying-fix-things-just-listen%3famp

  120. 120.

    WhatsMyNym

    December 17, 2019 at 2:39 pm

    @J R in WV: Kroger’s might have them.  QFC does and they are owned by Kroger’s.

  121. 121.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 2:41 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Sounds very, eh, Republican.  He just needs to add selling insurance across state lines.

  122. 122.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 2:44 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: oh, I forgot “cross-state licensing”

    ETA: if his proposal were an actual bill I’d support it, since it has some good stuff (especially government production of Rx meds), but as a candidate proposal for his entire reform effort, it is… exactly the 2008 republican plan in many ways

  123. 123.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    December 17, 2019 at 2:51 pm

    @J R in WV: I’ll be interested to hear how the buckwheat crust turns out (and eternally grateful that I don’t usually have to deal with gluten issues, because I love making pies). It may be too late for your current purposes, but the nut-based crust from this linzer tart is terrific – as is the whole tart. I’ve made it with various combinations of the suggested walnuts, almonds, and hazelnuts and it’s always good. The dough is a little prone to tearing, but easy to just patch back together. A half recipe or even a third is enough for a normal single-crust pie. Bon appétit!

  124. 124.

    artem1s

    December 17, 2019 at 2:52 pm

    Is there any choice but to start impeachment proceedings against those who are obstructing justice? Barr, Moscow Mitch, Graham…. who am I missing. If MM refuses to hold just proceedings and starts to make up rules as he wishes, why not beat him at his own game? If the GOP leadership protests that the House can’t do such and such, ask them to provide precedence on why they can’t. If the GOP insists on playing Calvinball, go full metal Calvinball.

  125. 125.

    Renie

    December 17, 2019 at 2:53 pm

    Anyone have comments about The Lincoln Project set up by George Conway, Steve Schmidt, Rick Wilson and others.  Think its legit or is there some ulterior motive in here.

  126. 126.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 2:54 pm

    @J R in WV:

    all the buckwheat crusts are pressed crusts like a graham cracker crumb crust.

    • 10 tablespoons salted butter
    • 1 cup gluten-free or regular all-purpose flour
    • ¼ cup buckwheat flour
    • 3 tablespoons almond flour
    • ⅓ cup sugar
    • ½ teaspoon kosher salt

    they all use “real” flour of some sort to get the “stickyness” needed to replace some or all of the gluten,

    except for one recipie I found, which requires cooking the buckwheat flour, then lots of “sweet” spice to hide the flavour of the cooked buckwheat.

    Not sure you will want it but:

    240 g buckwheat flour

    10 g unsweetened cacao powder

    2 eggs

    100 g butter (unsalted)

    100 g brown sugar

    1 tsp lemon zest

    1/4 tsp nutmeg powder

    1/4 tsp ground cloves

  127. 127.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    December 17, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    You appear to have a bad link there. It doesn’t go anywhere, at least for me.

  128. 128.

    Bill Arnold

    December 17, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    @Jay:
    Here’s a list of GOP Senators who were Senators during the Clinton impeachment.
    IIRC I correlated the R votes for Clinton’s conviction with the current Senator list.

    Charles Grassley
    Mitch McConnell
    Pat Roberts
    Susan Collins

  129. 129.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    @Renie:

    It’s a Never Trump ReThug PAC, that alone should tell you everything you need to know.

  130. 130.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 3:01 pm

    @Baud: you and your sensible answers. And I wanted to nurse a grievance.

  131. 131.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 3:03 pm

    “Pushed on why he was opposed to further witnesses being called if the impeachment process reaches the Senate, Graham said: “Well, I’d tell the president if somebody’s ready to acquit you, I’d sort of get out of the way.”

    https://www.newsweek.com/lindsey-graham-doesnt-need-hear-witnesses-impeachment-trial-senate-1477384

  132. 132.

    MattF

    December 17, 2019 at 3:05 pm

    OT.

    The Far Side website has gone live.

  133. 133.

    Kathleen

    December 17, 2019 at 3:05 pm

    @sdhays: You are right. I forgot that.

  134. 134.

    JoeyJoeJoe

    December 17, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    @Bill Arnold: Also Mike Enzi, Richard Shelby, Jim Inhofe, and Mike Crapo

  135. 135.

    different-church-lady

    December 17, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    @sdhays: Sold it to John Henry (Red Sox principle owner) long ago.

  136. 136.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    @Bill Arnold: There is a current Senator that was a House impeachment manager during the Clinton impeachment, Lindsey Graham.

  137. 137.

    Kathleen

    December 17, 2019 at 3:09 pm

    @sdhays: You are right. I forgot that.

     

    @WhatsMyNym: They do not.

  138. 138.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 3:17 pm

    It didn’t help that, on Twitter at least, Buttigieg’s remarks got condensed to the snippet “I trust you to figure out your own health care,” which launched any number of threads from people pointing out that America’s clusterfuck of healthcare “systems” is difficult even for physicians to figure out, let alone the average person. Again, Buttigieg wasn’t advocating throwing people to the tender mercies of the free market (his public option would automatically enroll those who are uninsured, with an opt-out). That out of context quote may haunt him forever, like the time Nancy Pelosi never said we’d have to pass Obamacare to find out what’s in it.

    My point here is that all this talk of “choice” actually buys into a talking point that comes straight from the health insurance industry, and for fucks sake could Democrats please be smarter than to let those vultures frame the debate, please?

    https://www.wonkette.com/healthcare-choice-is-a-humbug

  139. 139.

    catclub

    December 17, 2019 at 3:19 pm

    Trump’s ‘letter’ to Pelosi tops the one sent to Erdogan on the bugfuck scale of crazy.

  140. 140.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 17, 2019 at 3:21 pm

    Trump sent a letter to Pelosi ranting about the impeachment. (Notice I did not say “wrote a letter.” There are a lot of big words in it.) Among other things, he annoyed that she says she’s praying for him. He says that’s a lie.

     

    NEW: @realDonaldTrump send angry letter to @SpeakerPelosi protesting impeachment. pic.twitter.com/qsLfZjAOdp— Andrew Feinberg (@AndrewFeinberg) December 17, 2019

  141. 141.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:24 pm

    @catclub:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    A sternly worded letter?

  142. 142.

    CaseyL

    December 17, 2019 at 3:25 pm

    @Jay: I would be a lot more sanguine about our chances in 2020 if it weren’t for the fact that the GOP is doubling down on purging voter rolls in critical areas (like Wisconsin).  I am also not sanguine about purged voters getting themselves re-registered, as doing so would mean, one, knowing they have been purged; two, finding out in time to re-register; and three, caring enough to actually do so.

    One distressing but true fact is that an awful lot of people have bought into the bothsides argument that all politicians are corrupt and there is no meaningful difference between the parties.  This is a particularly pernicious affliction of the left.

  143. 143.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 3:25 pm

    I’m telling you, the House needs to hold the hearing. They can do that, they just can’t remove from office, which is fine because there’s an election coming up.

    Vote to impeach, and hold the trial. Invite the chief justice to oversee it. Invite the Senate to participate. Invite Trump to testify. Get the WH to reject subpoenas with the backing of the chief justice.

    And use McConnell and Grahams statements that they clearly can’t hold an impartial hearing as the justification. Let the electorate be the ultimate jury.

  144. 144.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:26 pm

    @Jay:

    My point here is that all this talk of “choice” actually buys into a talking point that comes straight from the health insurance industry,

    Yeah, no.  Right or wrong, voters are attracted to messages about “choice.”  It has to be dealt with one way or another by any candidate who wants to talk about health care.

  145. 145.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:28 pm

    @Martin: Why do you believe the House can hold any kind of “trial”?

  146. 146.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 3:29 pm

    @Baud:

    A sternly worded letter?

    No a cray-cray worded letter.

    I read though a portion of it, a lawyer wrote it, but with Trump’s cray-cray in pretty language.

  147. 147.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:30 pm

    Rep. Tulsi Gabbard calls for President Trump’s censure

    She remains undecided on impeachment on eve of House vote.

    Link: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/rep-tulsi-gabbard-calls-president-trumps-censure/story?id=67782104

  148. 148.

    laura

    December 17, 2019 at 3:30 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: “Tort reform” – weasel speak for denying an individual access to a court of competent jurisdiction to seek redress of a harm. So, in medical malpractice cases we decide to protect the medical industrial complex (who barely get by) and the patient or their survivors can hang fire because they shouldn’t have exposed themselves to risk.

    Andrew Yang and his ilk can just go do their douche bro Ill conceived techno solutions somewhere else and leave the hard work to those who can do so without the blind spot they seem to all have with giving in to the worst ideas that have been around long enough for them to know better. At this rate we can expect a balanced budget amendment and a return to the gold standard.

  149. 149.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 3:31 pm

    @Baud: They can’t, it would be seen as a pure partisan exercise.  They can, however, continue with oversight hearings.

  150. 150.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 17, 2019 at 3:32 pm

    @Baud:

    “Sternly” is not the word I’d use.  It reads as if there are probably flecks of spittle on the paper.

  151. 151.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 3:33 pm

    @Baud: The simple solution (and unavoidably necessary step) is that under the new single payer system, employers may not reduce employees overall compensation.

    If unions negotiated for $10K in extra healthcare over the value that single payer provides, then the employer needs to give that $10K back to workers  – and the union can negotiate that – it can be salary, it can be pension contributions, it can be an additional healthcare rider above single payer for things not covered, etc. under an umbrella of allowed benefits (that are already defined.)

    Enforcing it for non-represented employees will be tough, but not impossible. It’s part of employers reporting for payroll taxes. We know how much they’re paying for health insurance, and the actuarial value of single payer is a single number, so the difference is what’s owed to the employee. If the new value is higher than the old value, then the employer owes the employee nothing. Any represented employee will go straight to the union if they’re shortchanged.

  152. 152.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:35 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I was riffing off the traditional contempt that people have had to Democratic letters sent to Republicans.

  153. 153.

    Bill Arnold

    December 17, 2019 at 3:36 pm

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    So once the House impeaches someone,

    So, when exactly does the impeachment in the House house take effect?

    The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

    Mitch McConnell can ignore stuff in his inbox as long as he wants; Senate makes its own rules. Are you saying that he can define House rules on impeachment?

  154. 154.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 3:36 pm

    @Baud: They have that constitutional authority. They’ve always had it. They just don’t have the authority to remove from office. They can find him guilty, they just can’t levy a punishment.

  155. 155.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    December 17, 2019 at 3:38 pm

    @Baud:

    I figured.

    I always assume the best about you, Baud. You’re my candidate!

  156. 156.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:38 pm

    @Martin:

    That might work for the first year since you know what health insurance costs were the year before the transition.  I don’t see how that’s maintainable going forward.

  157. 157.

    WaterGirl

    December 17, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    @Martin: this must mean you are fixed!

  158. 158.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    @Martin:

    I mean, they can say anything. They don’t even need a trial.  I just don’t know why it would have any more legitimacy than a Balloon Juice trial.  Unless trial is just another word for “really fancy hearing.”

  159. 159.

    West of the Rockies

    December 17, 2019 at 3:41 pm

    @CaseyL:

    It’s frustrating.  We have to get the young voters out to vote, but will they stay home and pout if they don’t get their chosen one?  Ditto with the purity ponies, with those who insist on ol’ Joe or they stay home, etc.

  160. 160.

    patrick II

    December 17, 2019 at 3:41 pm

    @sdhays:

    “these guys really aren’t very smart”.

    They are smart enough to know they can openly keep committing crimes because no one will hold them accountable, while we are dumb enough to think there will be consequences because of the constitution and laws and other irrelevancies.

  161. 161.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:42 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Isn’t it a HIPAA violation to discuss his snip, snip in public?

  162. 162.

    Jim

    December 17, 2019 at 3:42 pm

    MoscowMitch is doing what Moscow is paying him to do .

  163. 163.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 3:42 pm

    @CaseyL:

    as I pointed out to a twitter idea, there are solutions,

    there lists of purged voters, containing enough data, to digitalize the lists, and target the individuals purged, with targetted broad spectrum social media ads, letting them know they have been purged, and letting them know, State by State, how to get the vote back. It would cost as little as $0.07 per person purged.

    the only issues are:

    1:1000 to 1:10,000 notifications will be wrong due to similarities,

    some number will not see the social media ads or be non-responsive,

    and a geek, team of geeks, State or National Party, or some Tech Billionaire, would have to see this as important.

    So it’s not going to happen.

  164. 164.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 3:42 pm

    @Baud: In the case of the unions, that would be in the contract, so problem solved. In the case of individuals, yeah, they could cut your salary by $10K, but there will be consequences to that.

    Plus, if you have the votes for single payer, then throw in a minimum wage increase, paid maternity leave, and anything else you want to balance the soup because you’ll have the votes for the whole lot.

  165. 165.

    Ksmiami

    December 17, 2019 at 3:43 pm

    @Martin: why give the GOP any voice at all since they clearly don’t believe in Democracy – I say impeach and withhold and make the Republicans sweat

  166. 166.

    karen marie

    December 17, 2019 at 3:44 pm

    @Betty Cracker:  “got the rights … while he was energy secretary” is doing a lot of work there.  The guy got the 50-year, low-bid contract less than a week after Perry handed Zelensky the paper with the guy’s name on it at Zelensky’s inauguration.

    I realize there’s a lot going on but the lack of attention to this bit of corruption has been blowing my mind.

  167. 167.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 3:44 pm

    @Baud:

    helps to have read the article.

  168. 168.

    patrick II

    December 17, 2019 at 3:45 pm

    @Martin:

    I would use the current health care benefits for a worker as a tax to pay for his single-payer, with leftover money (hopefully single-payer is actually cheaper) as an increase to his salary.  The owner doesn’t loser anything, and the employee gains twice, a more robust health care system and a few bucks in his pocket.

  169. 169.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 3:46 pm

    @WaterGirl: Yes, indeed.

    Props to WaterGirl for fixing my account. Somehow I’d gotten banned (John did it) and whatever was wrong (John banned me) she worked with the devs to sort out and got me back online (haha John)

    Long story short, WaterGirl rules, and if you disagree, fight me.

  170. 170.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    @Baud: I think I’ve admitted to that here myself. It was probably in the 9th paragraph of one of my comments.

  171. 171.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    You are very wise.

     

     

    @Martin: A double whammy on employers, since they’ll have to pay single payer taxes and can’t reduce their current health care expenditures.

  172. 172.

    Bill Arnold

    December 17, 2019 at 3:47 pm

    @JoeyJoeJoe:

    Mike Enzi, Richard Shelby, Jim Inhofe, and Mike Crapo

    Ouch. My script didn’t work apparently. So the complete list is (note: Susan Collins voted not guilty for both articles):
    Mitch McConnell
    Pat Roberts
    Mike Enzi
    Richard Shelby
    Jim Inhofe
    Mike Crapo

    Any (more) corrections?

  173. 173.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 3:48 pm

    @Bill Arnold: Once the House votes to impeach, the officeholder is impeached.

  174. 174.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:49 pm

    @Jay: In the age of Twitter? Who does that?

  175. 175.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 3:49 pm

    @Ksmiami: I’m not sure the GOP is helping their case any right now. The sooner they get this over with the sooner they get past it. A House trial drags that out effectively indefinitely given the timing to the election.

  176. 176.

    rp

    December 17, 2019 at 3:50 pm

    Anyone who argues that impeachment is a waste of time and that Trump is “winning” need to read that letter. It’s all the evidence needed to prove that it matters A LOT to Trump.

  177. 177.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 3:50 pm

    @Martin: The Constitution says “The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. “

  178. 178.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 3:52 pm

    @Baud:

    Unless trial is just another word for “really fancy hearing.”

    As long as the flag has a fringe on it.

  179. 179.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 3:53 pm

    @Martin: This feels super easy to game. Okay, so you don’t reduce employee compensation the first year–what about the second year? Does churn just sort of obviate this regulation within a short amount of time anyway? etc.

    No, I don’t have a better answer, just curious.

  180. 180.

    Baud

    December 17, 2019 at 3:53 pm

    @rp:

     

    The Republicans will always be deemed to be wimning until white people vote for Democrats.

  181. 181.

    WaterGirl

    December 17, 2019 at 3:54 pm

    @Baud: Oh, I didn’t say a word when we did that procedure, this was the one where we… oh, I’ve already said too much!  Let’s just keep this between you and me.  Forget I said anything!

  182. 182.

    rp

    December 17, 2019 at 3:57 pm

    @Baud: Is “wimning” a typo? Because it kind of fits.

  183. 183.

    sdhays

    December 17, 2019 at 3:58 pm

    @patrick II: They sure seem worried that someone actually might start holding them accountable if everything they’ve been doing comes to light.

  184. 184.

    Bill Arnold

    December 17, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    Yeah, D.J. Trump did not write that. It even couched the accusation of a lie about prayer carefully. Ugly 4 page stupid rant with all sorts of accusations not grounded in reality.  (Haven’t found a searchable/copy pastable text yet.)

  185. 185.

    WaterGirl

    December 17, 2019 at 3:59 pm

    @Martin:

    …and if you disagree, fight me.

    Have you guys been talking about me behind my back? :-)

  186. 186.

    Kay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    @Baud:

    until white people vote for Democrats.

    Until. Ha!

  187. 187.

    Kay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:01 pm

    @Baud:

    until white people vote for Democrats.

    Until. Ha!

  188. 188.

    PJ

    December 17, 2019 at 4:01 pm

    @Renie: I don’t know anything about it, and so will be glad to comment on it!

    Before Trump, these guys were gung-ho Republicans.  They don’t seem to be overtly racist, but it’s probably fair to say that they believe in 1) little or no social safety net (including any kind of public health care); 2) little or no regulation of industry (and particularly of banking); 3) low or no taxes on the wealthy; 4) maintaining insane levels of spending on the defense industry and other contractors; 5) sale of natural resources and other public assets to the lowest bidder; 6) gutting of environmental regulations; 7) maintenance of immigration at a level that is exploitative; 8) weakening unions; 9) reducing civil liberties, etc.

    They will never feel comfortable voting for a Democrat, so it makes sense that they would try to form a new Republican party minus the white supremacy/Trumpistas.  But without the attraction of white supremacy, this is going to be a much smaller, albeit well-funded, party.  If they want to win elections, they will need to peel off the Joe Manchin types from the Democrats, and I don’t know how much room there would be for them to grow there.  But the media would be all over them, praising them as a return to the days of the Very Serious People who ran this country so well from Reagan through W.

  189. 189.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    December 17, 2019 at 4:01 pm

    @rp: Yup, Trump really doesn’t want this phase in the first paragraph of his bio on Wikipedia. “In 1998 2019, Clinton Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives.”

  190. 190.

    Kay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    Sorry I keep posting twice. I can’t use this website anymore :)

  191. 191.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    My new hobby is taking graphs of economic data over time and indicating the year that Ronald Reagan was inaugurated, in case people find that helpful or informative. pic.twitter.com/jdLwHv8VNK— The Ward on Christmas (@WardQNormal) December 15, 2019

  192. 192.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    @patrick II:

    I would use the current health care benefits for a worker as a tax to pay for his single-payer, with leftover money (hopefully single-payer is actually cheaper) as an increase to his salary.  The owner doesn’t loser anything, and the employee gains twice, a more robust health care system and a few bucks in his pocket.

    Right. I’m assuming the former is the case – that single payer levies a tax of some form. I’d prefer it to be a VAT rather than a traditional payroll tax to reduce the incentive to turn employees into contractors, etc. but regardless, any employer currently paying health coverage should win out – the federal tax should be lower than their current premiums, and the employee gets a raise of the difference. The employer doesn’t pocket anything, but they get rewarded by having done right by their employees by everyone getting a raise, which is a better value for the dollar from the employer. In time, pay will balance out but Democrats would be on record of saying that single payer is not a way for employers to boost profits, that employee benefits at worst will stay the same and at best will go up (by employees gaining health coverage if they previously had none).

    The pay-fors will be the difficult spot to address.

  193. 193.

    WaterGirl

    December 17, 2019 at 4:09 pm

    @Kay: Hi Kay, what’s it doing?  It should come back with something like “You already said that.” if you hit post comment more than once.

  194. 194.

    Kay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:17 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    I don’t know. I hit it once and it just kind of hangs there and then posts twice. Thanks for asking, though. I think you do a great job. You’re very responsive.

  195. 195.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    @WaterGirl: As long as we’re complaining: when I post a comment on my phone (Safari, iOS 13.x), it goes into some sort of form-submission loop and then errors out after a few iterations. The comment is there, but I have to go back a few pages to see the thread, or else I end up back in the loop. It’s… hard to describe? This is new.

  196. 196.

    Bill Arnold

    December 17, 2019 at 4:19 pm

    @Jay:
    Another is the steadily increasing Gini ratio since the Reagan cuts of the top tax rates.
    (via (Mark Thoma, January 27, 2014))
    Somebody pointed out to me that that also corresponds with the rise of the US tax avoidance industry. FWIW.

  197. 197.

    Ruckus

    December 17, 2019 at 4:20 pm

    @nyrobbin:

    This my take as well.
    They act like someone has their balls in a vice and isn’t letting go of the handle. Even Lindsey himself, the change of what he said two years ago, to what he says now is the opposite. He was lying then or now, so why?

  198. 198.

    joel hanes

    December 17, 2019 at 4:23 pm

    @catclub:

    As I understand it, Moscow Mitch, as Majority Leader, has complete control over the Senate floor schedule.   No other Senator has anything to say about it at all, barring a vote to remove him from the Senate.

    So that fact that only a handful of the hundreds of bills passed by the Democratic majority in the House have come to the floor of the Senate is all on him.

  199. 199.

    Kay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:23 pm

    Sam Brodey
    @sambrodey
    ·50m
    NEW from me: Dem Rep. Jeff Van Drew, who’s reportedly decided to switch to the GOP over his opposition to impeachment, has privately trashed Trump, calling him “crazy” and unfit for office, according to several Democrats

    Trump’s magic touch. This person will be destroyed. No one knew how horrible he was until he hitched his wagon to the worst person in the world- now he’ll be infamous. He takes ’em all down with him. It’s amazing to watch. Get anywhere near him and you’re covered in shit.

  200. 200.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:24 pm

    @PJ:

    the Lincoln Project is just a Never Trump PAC.

    in the short term, aside from getting Billionaires and Millionaires cash, suckering a few lower economic scale ReThugs into donating, along with Gullible Democratic peeps, it will if sucessful, will:

    – generate a lovely source of income for the principals

    – create a modest ReThug employee pool for now and the future,

    – provide socialized income streams for ReThug Ad Agencies, Consultants, Writers, Advisors, Lobbiests and the rest of the political remora class.

    – provide a modest amount of contributions to “libertarian”, “independent” and ReThug campaigns that are somewhat anti-Trump, irrespective of the impact on Democratic Campaigns in those districts.

    – provide for and broadcast on a variety of platforms some amount of “Never Trump Ads” along with lots and lots of Blegs for Mor. Money.

    – create a salable list of donors and potential donors that can and will be marketed to Campaigns, PAC’s, Stink Tanks and Bric a Brac merchants,

    – and post Doltus 45, will immediately pivot to selling Doltus 45 Amnesia Koolaide and attacking all Democratic members, supporters and policies.

    Like I said, it’s just a Never Trump PAC, sonit’s a no-brainer.

  201. 201.

    Martin

    December 17, 2019 at 4:25 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: This feels super easy to game. Okay, so you don’t reduce employee compensation the first year–what about the second year? Does churn just sort of obviate this regulation within a short amount of time anyway? etc.

    Yeah, eventually that will happen anyway. I mean, there’s always this temptation to directly regulate, when its probably better to indirectly do it. Set up a framework where employers are incentivized to do the thing you want. So you give this direct regulation just to make sure there isn’t a race to the bottom, but after a year of employees having that extra pay, it’s going to be damn hard to take it from them without losing them. Some employers will do it anyway, and some won’t, and workers will migrate.

    I mean, we don’t tell employers what to pay, other than setting a minimum. I don’t see why this should change beyond the transition. But the argument has been 100% about unions, and so long as the feds determine that the monetary value of the contract can’t go down due to single payer, then you can trust the union to perform their role. At least Democrats should do that.

  202. 202.

    Major Major Major Major

    December 17, 2019 at 4:29 pm

    @Martin: That makes sense.

  203. 203.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:30 pm

    In cooperation with @bellingcat, @BILD identified one of the two “diplomats”, extradited after the murder of Zelimkhan #Khangoshvili in Berlin.

    Big surprise: He was a major in ??’s GRU.

    Even bigger surprise: He worked on #NordStream2 and spied on the @CDU. https://t.co/bO9awPRk5B— Julian Röpcke (@JulianRoepcke) December 16, 2019

  204. 204.

    Jay

    December 17, 2019 at 4:34 pm

    In moderation for retweeting a tweet with too many hashtags,

    Removing them in edit mode didn’t help.

  205. 205.

    pajaro

    December 17, 2019 at 4:43 pm

    @Lapassionara:

    I believe you are right.  Everyone seems to assume that Mitch can treat this like his does the rest of his work.  I don’t think that’s right.  Roberts should get to rule on issuance of subpoenas and while a majority of Senators may have the right to alter the rules, I don’t know that the Moscow man has the right to do anything solo.

  206. 206.

    SiubhanDuinne

    December 17, 2019 at 4:45 pm

    @PJ:

    I don’t know anything about it, and so will be glad to comment on it!

    Nominated as a rotating tag.

  207. 207.

    WaterGirl

    December 17, 2019 at 4:51 pm

    @Kay: Thanks for your kind words!

    That’s interesting.  Hangs and then shows up twice. Which it shouldn’t be able to even do because it’s basic WordPress, not the developer’s programming, that comes back with the “I think you already said that” message.

    I’ll see what the developers think.

    It doesn’t happen every time, correct?  Once it does it once, does it keep doing that on a thread? No, I see that it didn’t do it in your comments after that. I would love to know what device and browser combination you are using.

  208. 208.

    Ruckus

    December 17, 2019 at 6:19 pm

    @PJ:

    I hope that’s tongue-in-cheek about them running the country well.

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