I was undecided on whether it makes sense to hold the articles of impeachment in the House rather than sending them over to the Senate for a trial, but crybaby here adds his whiny weight in the idea’s favor:
Trump isn’t the only one meeping about the unfairness of it all. Obsequious toady Lindsey Graham had this to say this morning:
If House Dems refuse to send Articles of Impeachment to the Senate for trial it would be a breathtaking violation of the Constitution, an act of political cowardice, and fundamentally unfair to President @realdonaldTrump.
Not allowing the Senate to act on approved Articles of Impeachment becomes Constitutional extortion and creates chaos for the presidency.
It also sets in motion a tremendous threat to our Constitutional system of checks and balances.
Graham is a craven lickspittle, but I suspect he has a better grasp of how this shit works than Trump does (low bar alert: the same could be said of both my dogs). Is Graham subtly trying to disabuse Trump of the notion that there’s a “default” option here, like in Little League?
As we discussed a few days ago, the objective is to extract maximum political pain from elected Republicans. I’m not sure which course would best achieve that goal. Maybe Pelosi is attempting to use her leverage to negotiate better terms for the Senate trial. Regardless, if Speaker Pelosi wants to play DC Hold ‘Em, I trust her. She’s earned that.
Open thread!
JMG
It’s Christmas and New Year’s. Just send everybody home for the holidays and let Trump stew. No voters will mind the break. In fact they will welcome it.
Baud
She won’t hold them indefinitely like some people are suggesting.
On the other hand, the Republicans want to be able to say they MADE her send impeachment over when she eventually does it.
The Internet will then second guess everything she does.
Yarrow
I trust Nancy Pelosi.
dmsilev
Yes, definitely.
germy
chopper
pelosi is going to send them over precisely when they should be. not a day sooner.
Yarrow
@Baud: Agree that she will not hold them indefinitely. She knows holding the articles will drive Trump even crazier and look, it’s working! Meanwhile the Senate holding a “fair trial” is now a discussion point. People will take a look at it. Having witnesses and so forth seems fair to the American people. That increases the pressure on Republicans.
I commented last night that there is still a lot of dirt to drop on Republicans and Trump. It would be excellent timing if some of that dirt on Republicans and the Republican party itself dropped now–after all those House R’s are on record loudly supporting Trump and before it gets to the Senate. That would mean all those Republican Senators would have to decide what to do given the new information out there. Heh.
VOR
Graham was a House Manager for the Clinton Impeachment so he has first-hand knowledge of the process. He knows better.
Do Nothing Democrats has alliteration going for it. How about Russian Republicans? Or President Putin Puppet?
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
Really, why should they send them over? Republicans are already on public record telling us all that they aren’t going to fulfill their Constitutional burdens. Let them twist in the wind.
painedumonde
[southern effeminate accent on] Turn about is not fair play, sah!
Sloane Ranger
Non American here but I would think there is a limited time in which she can hold off sending them to the Senate without running into the law of diminishing returns. If she leaves it too long, Democrats lose momentum and they risk eating into the campaigning time of prospective Presidential candidates.
I think she can safely sit on them until mid January at the latest. I see her and Moscow Mitch engaging in a contest to see whose nerve breaks first.
germy
Baud
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):
(1) It lets GOP senators off the hook.
(2) We lose public support if the House doesn’t flow through with the constitutional plan.
(3) It distracts from the campaign.
jonas
Refusing to send over articles of impeachment! That’s outrageous! A total violation of the Constitution! It would be as if the Senate majority leader simply refused to hold a vote on a SCOTUS nominee out of naked political calculus
ETA: oops, germy was there first
SW
The best thing to do now is to make this statement. “We in the House have carefully considered our Republican friend’s learned objections and have decided that we should let the courts decide the issue of whether or not the witnesses that we requested will be compelled to testify. Therefore we will not be sending the Articles of Impeachment to the Senate until the Courts decide this matter and we have a determination regarding the evidence that will be used in that trial. We hope that the White House will move to help us to find a speedy resolution to this matter so that we can gain this testimony and move on to the next phase of the process”
M31
During the wait to send the Articles over, the House should be preparing more Articles — it’s not like the Ukraine thing was the only overt crime Trump committed.
Trump Articles of Impeachment should be like shark teeth — always more in the pipeline ready to grind his useless pathetic loser ass
Yarrow
Nancy Pelosi’s decision to delay sending over the articles must be a good idea because Chuck Todd says it’s doing McConnell a favor. “McConnell does not want this trial.” Sure, Jan.
Gravenstone
Unlike say, presidential obstruction of investigations undertaken by a co-equal branch of government? That wouldn’t threaten the system of check and balances at all, would it now? Kindly fuck yourself, Lindsey.
Yutsano
@SW: The courts unfortunately would have zero standing to decide this. It’s strictly an Article 1 issue. Let the Republicans squawk. Pelosi will send them over when her terms are met: all the witnesses are allowed and both sides get a fair hearing. But nothing that can’t wait until after the holidays.
Now getting the Senate to pass the budget…that’s the harder trick.
Yarrow
@Yutsano:
Yeah, are we heading for a shutdown?
Professor Bigfoot
My dear sainted mom would have said, “Lindsey, you just a lie an’ the truth ain’t in ya.”
‘Course, that would apply to all Republicans right now, wouldn’t it?
Major Major Major Major
artem1s
As I told a friend yesterday, no way does Nancy move this to a vote unless she has a plan for every contingency. Extracting the most pain and keeping the public aware of the abuses of power going on in real time is going to be a moving target. I trust her more than anyone to make the call on when and how to send it to Moscow Mitch.
WaterGirl
@germy: Kangaroo court! Yes! I am beyond pleased to see multiple Democrats calling this what it is.
robmassing
“lose by Default!”
Christ, what a dipshit
JoeyJoeJoe
Mark Meadows came up earlier. He’s retired because NC’s congressional maps have been redrawn, and Meadows now lives in the same district as another republican, Ted Budd. Most of the area in the new district has been represented by Budd, so Meadows is unlikely to win a Republican primary against him. Most of Walker’s old district is now part of a strongly Dem district that he can’t win either, so he’s screwed. George Holding’s seat is also now strongly Dem, so he’s also retiring. Democrats should pick up two seats in the state in the next election
ciotogist
So it’s unconstitutional to impeach Trump but it’s also unconstitutional to not send the articles of impeachment to the Senate?
randy khan
I see this as an opportunity for Pelosi to suggest that it’s important to have a fair trial so that Trump’s fake complaints about due process are addressed, and that she agrees that Trump should have the opportunity to call witnesses and even testify himself.
tamiasmin
“When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside…” US Constitution, Art. I, section 1.6
But the document does not say what powers, if any, the word ”preside” confers. That is apparently left to the senators to decide case by case, which probably means Sen. McConnell will decide any contentious matter. John Roberts will sit up straight and rule judiciously on innocuous questions.
Or maybe I’m wrong.
The Moar You Know
Well, Ms. Pelosi is doing it. Anytime the Republicans start meeping about “gross abuse of power”, all that means is that we’re treating them the way they treat Democrats, and we should double down on whatever that strategy is.
I don’t like the phrase, but “a hit dog will howl” is very accurate and appropriate here.
I think we should hold off on passing the articles to the Senate for as long as the Senate held off on confirming Justice Garland. Forever.
Bill Arnold
Nancy Pelosi is also winning news cycles. News people are intrigued. And Trump’s desperate attempts to steal some oxygen of attention are being mocked.
So there’s more than just purely political tactics in play.
MCA1
@Yutsano: Yep. She’s brought a gun to a shootout, and is being ruthless the way we on this side of the aisle are always trashing Democrats for not being. Republicans are going to break every rule and every norm, and are going to attack you for being unfair and biased no matter what you do. So play ball instead of trusting that people will, on their own, come to the conclusion that Democrats acted responsibly and deserve support instead of the GOP who are acting like screeching monkeys shitting all over the Constitution. In today’s environment it just doesn’t work that way.
The talking points seem pretty simple here. 1. Mitch McConnell has already indicated, right there on the teevee, that he will do whatever it is the White House wants, and is colluding with Drumpf, so until he recants that we’re not going to allow him to just flush this momentous process down the toilet. 2. Lindsay Graham and others have already indicated, right there in the open, that they will break their oath of impartiality, so until they take those statements back we cannot trust that the Senate majority will act in good faith. 3. 70+% of America has indicated in polls that they expect a fair and good faith trial in the Senate and we won’t allow the will of the people to be thwarted by Moscow Mitch and his naked partisanship.
Every Democrat in every interview should have Mitch and Lindsay’s recent quotes memorized and recite them and then ask whether people trust those two complicit hypocrites.
Another Scott
@Bill Arnold: She was excellent in her just-concluded news conference. She said they’d decide on how many managers, how to pay for it, and write the bill and send it over once they know the Senate process. That she “hopes” the trial is a fair process. That “the founders envisioned the possibility of a rogue President, but didn’t imagine that there’d be a rogue Senate Majority Leader at the same time…”
Talked about several excellent bills they’ve passed and are working on. Today they’ll pass a bill to fix the state-and-local tax deduction issues with the Teabaggers tax-giveaway. To be paid for by higher taxes on the highest-tax-bracket.
Refused to be goaded by the press into talking more than she wanted on the Impeachment stuff. “Does anyone want to ask about the issues that American workers care about? The SALT fixes? The excellent USMCA that is very different from what Donnie proposed and is strongly endorsed by labor? Anyone?”
Just excellent. Nancy SMASH!
Cheers,
Scott.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@VOR: “Don the Con” is catchy and to the point.
Apparently Fat Hands missed that a lot of Republicans refused to vote no on the impeachment.
Betty Cracker
@The Moar You Know: Glad to know I’m not the only one who dislikes that saying!
MCA1
The other great thing about letting pressure build on the GOP to hold a real trial is that Democrats are attempting to force the GOP into a public decision on whether or not they’ll take the off ramp that’s been provided. Their last and final off ramp is now here.
While more and more of them act like debased cult members these days, there is simmering, seething resentment of tRump still residing within the majority of the party. They f’ing loathe him, too, just not in the way we do. Having a full trial in the Senate, controlled by Republicans, is a shiv that Nancy’s handed to the GOP. They could orchestrate it however they wanted, and slowly bleed out R Senators sadly announcing that they’re very concerned about the evidence they’re seeing, and setting up the final knifing of a vote to remove. They control the message and the tone and could easily, subtly push more independents and softer or uninformed R voters toward favoring removal. And all the while McConnell can be going over to Pennsylvania Avenue and explaining that BLOTUS is losing support and should consider just resigning.
They won’t take that off ramp, but then Democrats can bludgeon them for that next year on the campaign trail, too.
brantl
Since Mitch said that this is under-researched, she should say: “You know what Mitch, the current evidence shows many promising leads, according to Mr. Schiff and Mr. Nadler, and we will continue to investigate those areas, as is our duty. We will hold these articles, until the investigation shows no more evidence ,and/or any subsequent charges to be laid.”. And every day, she should address the news media with new evidence of Trump’s continuing sleaze, ethical violation, and just enough about the actual crimes, to have him jumping around like a june bug on a hot griddle.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@MCA1:
They f’ing loathe him, too, just not in the way we do.
That’s likely a factor in Pelosi’s calculation. Turtle wants to railroad the impeachment threw to keep his caucus from thinking and getting ideas (I think Turtle wants to keep Trump happy because the MAGA hat vote is Turtle’s only chance of being re-elected)
Also, let us note; Trump is a bully, he is going to take his humiliation out on the Republicans because he knows they won’t fight back.
Kay
Perfect. This particular member of Donald Trump’s base is sticking with him. Two corrupt authoritarian leaders who do nothing for their people while padding their own nests. They have a lot in common.
Remember! It inexplicably got little or no media coverage but there was Russian government interference in congressional elections too, and it ALL benefited the GOP. Exclusively. Putin knew he needed a GOP Congress to protect his boy.
Kay
Do other international leaders outside of Putin announce support for a US political Party?
It’s bizarre that Putin is attacking “Democrats”. He’s now officially not just a passionate Trump supporter but also a Republican? Will he be weighing in on congressional and governors races now too? Attending the GOP convention?
“The Democrats”. Jesus.
Kay
They were always authoritarians. Always. Putin didn’t influence them- he recognized people who share his approach. A match made in heaven.
James E Powell
@MCA1:
This is one of those things we Democrats are not really very good at.
JaneE
How about waiting till next year’s GOP convention to release the articles? How about one at a time so the Senate has to do its show trial thing twice? When is Trump’s birthday? That might make a good day to release them too. Whatever makes the GOP complicity more obvious and causes them more pain is good for me.
Jim
Poor ol` Baldy is *losing* the spotlight . Tantrum time .
Ella in New Mexico
I’m with HER
dww44
My apologies for not reading thru the comments, but in the last couple of hours I read this piece at Slate that makes me look at Pelosi’s delay in a bit of a different light:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/impeachment-update-nancy-pelosi-articles-pause.html
Well worth the read. Author comes down on the side of this is constitutionally the right thing to do.