NEWS: @SpeakerPelosi says she will not name impeachment managers until she sees what the process will be in the Senate. “So far we have not seen anything that looks fair to us,” she said. Articles will not be sent to the Senate until she names the managers to present the trial. pic.twitter.com/aT8R3qrHzy
— Face The Nation (@FaceTheNation) December 19, 2019
Per a very thorough explainer in the Washington Post, paper of record in the town whose monopoly industry is politics:
… The Constitution only says that the Senate has to hold a trial, with the senators sitting as jurors, House lawmakers serving as prosecutors known as managers, and the chief justice of the United States presiding over it. Senators must take a public vote, and two-thirds of those present must agree on whether to convict the president and thus remove him from office. But the Constitution doesn’t lay out exactly how to hold a trial.
Rules the Senate approved in the 1980s give some guidelines, but the really important stuff — such as whether to call witnesses and what kind of evidence to admit and how long to make it — is up to the senators themselves to decide. The only modern guide we have is the Clinton impeachment trial, which allowed no new evidence and only taped witness testimony of key witnesses. It was largely considered a successful example of bipartisan cooperation, as Republicans worked with Democrats to put together as fair a trial as possible.
A majority of senators need to agree on the rules for Trump’s impeachment trial. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) will probably try to come to a compromise beforehand on what witnesses to call to avoid a big, dramatic battle during the trial. But they have vastly different views on how to do this. Schumer has said he wants people close to the president during the period scrutinized in the impeachment inquiry, such as Trump’s acting chief of staff, Mick Mulvaney, or former national security adviser John Bolton, to testify. The Washington Post has reported McConnell wants no witnesses at all. Republicans are also feeling pressured by Trump, who appears ready to use the Senate trial to attack his political opponents and try to undermine his impeachment…
Minutes after the vote, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told reporters she wouldn’t be naming House managers until she saw the parameters of the Senate trial and was assured it was fair, strongly suggesting that she believes a fair trial includes witnesses.
Assuming they get the articles without delay, senators will come to an agreement on a start date for a trial. We expect that will be in January. Senators will start by taking an oath of impartiality and will work six days a week until they’ve voted on both articles of impeachment. If there are witnesses, senators can ask them questions in writing, which the presiding official, Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., will read out loud. The president can choose his own lawyers, and they can cross-examine witnesses. The chief justice can overrule something that happens in the trial that he feels is out of line with the rules, but senators can overrule him with a vote.
If Trump is convicted on even one count, the Constitution says he has to be removed from office. Senators could take yet another vote to prevent him from running for office ever again…
If @SpeakerPelosi is indicating she will hold the articles until McConnell guarantees a trial with witnesses, she's probably looking at this:
71% of Americans say Trump aides shud testify (ABC/Wapost)
Also, even Rooney, who voted AGAINST impeachment says they should testify.
— Heidi Przybyla (@HeidiNBC) December 19, 2019
She is doing precisely as some of us suggested: Using what leverage she has to pressure the Senate to adopt fair rules. She did not say she absolutely would send over the articles. If she does not Trump is never acquitted.
— Jennifer Rubin (@JRubinBlogger) December 19, 2019
BTW, if any of you “Dems will never impeach/Dems do everything wrong” people are reading this, psst…Nancy Pelosi is good at tactics & strategy.
You are not.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) December 19, 2019
And @Lawrence just made a bigger point: it was Americans who made Nancy Pelosi Speaker. If you think Dems are incompetent , weak, & corrupt, you’re really saying you think the millions of us who canvassed, called, donated, & voted are suckers.
We’re not the suckers.
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) December 19, 2019
On The Road – dagaetch – Acadia National Park in October
Quinerly
Good morning from Poco and his chauffeur from the warmth of our Wink Bed, St. Louis, basking in impeachment afterglow. We are very glad to be home after 2 and 1/2 months. Plus, nice homecoming present.
satby
@Quinerly: welcome home Quinerly. Bet it’s nice to be back.
JPL
@Quinerly: Welcome home.
JGabriel
Face The Nation via Anne Laurie @ Top:
How will this work for us? If McConnell doesn’t want a Senate trial, doesn’t this just give him an excuse to avoid the trial while blaming it on Democrats?
I assume Pelosi is better at this kind of legislative and political maneuvering than pretty much everyone else, so I’m not asking that to be critical or querulous. I’m just … perplexed.
Gvg
So, this should be over before the first primaries. How many states decided not to allow a Trump GOP challenger? How will it work if he is convicted but not barred from running again? What is the deadline for filing to be in the various primaries? I think that even if the Senate doesn’t convict, he will be damaged even amoung some republicans. If it is already too late to file in important states, that pushes the GOP Senators more towards not convicting which they are already inclined to.
Joey Maloney
How will it work if he is convicted but not barred from running again?
The only penalty for being impeached and convicted is a lifetime bar from holding public office, according to the Constitution.
Kay
No, I think he definitely belongs with Donald Trump. It’s a good fit.
germy
Lapassionara
Welcome home! @Quinerly:
Uncle Jeffy
Loudermilk claims Trump is being treated as badly as Jesus. Steven Colbert’s response: “Jesus didn’t pay Mary Magdalene a bribe to keep quiet.” Even Erick Erickson thought the Rethuglikkkans were out of line.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@germy: she’s suing for an article published 5 1/2 years ago
satby
Is it my imagination or has Ozark not been around the last couple of days?
Kay
It’s just amazing how Schumer has disappeared. It’s like he doesn’t exist. All that nonsense about getting rid of Pelosi while this guy was hiding under his desk all this time. He’s done nothing since the day Trump was elected. Is he afraid of Trump? Does Trump have something on him?
germy
Winner of the Gohmert prize
germy
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Out of curiosity, I checked her twitter account. It’s protected.
She’s an investigative journalist? Fox or Sinclair now?
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
Boston Globe with a great front page (photo)
germy
@satby: Was he the commenter who was shot at?
One commenter here said they were shot at while leaving a government facility. Not sure which one.
germy
rikyrah
@Quinerly:
Morning to Poco and his chauffeur☺??
Glad you got home safe?
germy
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ?☺☺
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@germy: Probably RT News.
She can co-host a show with Tulsi
Betty Cracker
I love Pelosi’s “don’t make me come down there” gesture.
Saw a snippet or two of Trump’s impeachment-inflamed butt-balm hate rally in Michigan. He managed to shock the awful people who attend such events with his comments about the late John Dingell. Trump’s orange make-up was weirdly dark. At first I thought it was my TV settings, but nope:
What the hell, fellow citizens? What the hell?
Baud
@Quinerly: Nice to be home.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
rikyrah
Donald Trump Impeachment Anthem Is Epic???????
https://youtu.be/9G8c2jO_oT0
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: I’m here, just lurking, under the weather with a cold from hell and not feeling like commenting much.
Baud
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Good picture.
Baud
I still can’t believe Tulsi managed to make herself less respectable than the Dems who voted no on impeachment. That’s impressive.
SFAW
Apologies for the severe OT, because this happened in October, but I only found out about this yesterday:
I just wanted to note the passing of Professor Woodie Flowers of MIT, the man who made 2.70 [Intro to Design] mechanical engineering course into the practical-applications class it is today (and has been for more than 40 years). Too young, at 75.
germy
@Betty Cracker: Look at the young people in that audience. No mobility scooters in sight.
“When all the boomers die out, things will finally be okay.”
germy
Will Tulsi be at tonight’s debate?
EDIT:
SFAW
@Baud:
How did Tulsi do that? (Sincere question, I didn’t have the stomach to listen to all the traitors giving cover to the Traitor-in-Chief.)
germy
Yang gets in the debate, but not Castro. What a process.
And I see Childish Gambino (Donald Glover) is hosting a Yang fundraiser.
https://www.vulture.com/2019/12/donald-glover-to-host-fundraiser-event-for-andrew-yang.html#_ga=2.35420393.957185508.1576754341-31365281.1576754341
Baud
@SFAW:
She voted present on both articles of impeachment.
I don’t know why she didn’t just call in sick.
Quinerly
Thanks for the welcomes back. Poco sends tail wags. I have a lot of catch up and on the move. Someone should post the Twitter thread of James Martin, SJ. He’s a rock star imo. Have a great day!
Kay
@Baud:
i love how she issues those statements. “I will…” Unbearable person. It’s hysterical too because her fake political persona is she’s selfless. A humble “servant” which she incessantly ties to her military service, yet she’s absolutely incapable of being effective in anything other than a special, carved out spot where she’s singular- play acting as a “leader”. A leader with no followers. Another one of those. Our society seems to produce thousands of them. “Born leaders”, but no one actually chooses them to lead anything. Doesn’t matter.
Steeplejack
@rikyrah:
Good morning. ?
SFAW
@Baud:
Thanks. Sounds like she witnessed the courage displayed by that other cult member (Romney), and said “Hold my beer.”
mrmoshpotato
@Quinerly: Good morning to Poco and his chauffeur. Get some good basking in for it’s chilly outside.
Amir Khalid
@Betty Cracker:
Maybe the mockery over his unnatural orangeness has been getting Trump’s goat, so he had his make-up person try a different shade of colouring gloop.
mrmoshpotato
@Uncle Jeffy: Noooo.,.not even Erick son of Erick!
Steeplejack
I’m happy to have my Internet working again since yesterday afternoon. (It was out since Saturday morning.) I was able to get on line via my cell phone, but that’s not a good substitute for the big screen and a real keyboard. Replaced my vintage 2011 cable modem with a new one (Motorola MB7621), everything working fine again. #InfrastructureWeek!
debbie
I’ll tell you what needs to come next.
My local news last night was filled with persons on the street interviews. Whether they supported impeachment or not, most mentioned that the House needed to also attend to their jobs and legislate. The perception of the Do-Nothing House has taken hold, true or not.
Pelosi needs to release a list by name of all of the bills the House has passed and sent to the Senate which are just sitting on McConnell’s dusty desk. She needs to do this today.
SFAW
@germy:
I’m amazed at the perpetual “demographics will destroy the Republican Party, long-term” chant. Yes, I saw the figures David Anderson posted yesterday, and it gives me hope (not that I’ll still be on this side of the grass when it finally happens), but I do get a little tired of the opiners who keep spouting that.
Baud
@Kay:
For the first time, I’m sad she isn’t in the debate. I would have liked to see her face the music.
SFAW
@mrmoshpotato:
Don’t worry, he’ll walk it back, or weasel out of it somehow.
Citizen_X
How can McConnell and Graham swear oaths of impartiality, when they’ve already said, out loud with their fool mouths, they won’t be impartial? Any American who’s done jury selection knows they’d be kicked out in any court in the country. They get to just laugh at us ’cause they’re special, or something?
Baud
@SFAW:
As if young people won’t become old people one day.
debbie
@germy:
If she isn’t questioned on her “present” vote, I’ll be suspicious of leadership.
mrmoshpotato
@Betty Cracker: Even the Deplorables are tired of Dump’s crap. Amazing.
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
I don’t care how devoted Trump supporters are- that they will stand there while he goes on for two hours after making them wait for an hour? A two hour “speech”. That alone means he’s horrible. He treats them like shit, just as people. He just takes and takes and takes. The neediness is off the charts.
The (awful) NYTimes described him as “unbowed”. They’re delusional. He’s leaning on those people like they’re his crutch. They leave he collapses.
Betty Cracker
@debbie: I don’t think Pelosi has held an impeachment-related press conference without a preamble about all the bills the House has passed. In yesterday’s debates, there was a big stack of paper labeled as bills languishing in the Senate. The media just isn’t covering it. I’m not sure what Pelosi can do. You’re right. It is a problem.
debbie
Nicole
@Kay: Oh my god, really? That guy. Maybe he’s panicking now that at least six of his staff quit over his threat to party switch. I guess he wasn’t aware that “the help” might have principles.
SFAW
@debbie:
Someone posted a picture of all the bills in McConnell’s “in-box.” The stack looked about two feet tall. [I’m guessing it was some Dem’s doing, and not McConnell’s actual desk, of course.] Speaker Pelosi and an appropriate attack dog need to highlight that every day, along with the list you suggested.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
The Twitter comments on the “Pelosi look” are great:
“I ducked out of habit.”
“Whoa. I turned down the stereo, took out the trash and cleaned my bedroom after viewing this.”
debbie
@SFAW:
And also ask McConnell about it. We’re being swift-boated all over again.
SFAW
@Citizen_X:
They’ll (conveniently) say that “it’s not a criminal trial, so reasons.” Of course, that is after they (or their minions) have been whining about “due process.”
Gin & Tonic
@germy: All roads lead to Firtash.
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
I like to say, those who comfort themselves by hoping that bigotry will die out with the old bigots forget that, every day, young bigots come of age. The same applies to Republicans dying out.
Kay
@Nicole:
I think it’s funny. He’s done all the damage he can do. From here on out all the damage he does accrues to hi. I love the “soul searching” language he uses. “I must center myself and meditate..” Oh, STFU. I would have more respect for him if he spoke like the hack that he is. At least that’s honest.
Princess
My crazy theory for a long time has been that Tulsi is running for president to set her up to be Bernie’s VP. They run on an anti-establishment pro-working class, soft on guns, soft on abortion rights, ticket that sacrifices urban and suburban women’s votes for the rural white vote that elects Republicans. Once they’re elected, they ally with whatever Palin and Huckabee style Republicans are left (ie. socially conservative but pro social programs that help white people) for a healthcare bill that excludes all abortion/family planning. I don’t think it will work — I don’t think there are anough of those Republicans out there. But that’s my theory and it fits with a lot of Bernie’s previous stances and endorsements.
Barbara
@SFAW: Even when a broad demographic votes 70/30 in a particular way that means the minority still consists of millions of people.
Steeplejack
@OzarkHillbilly:
Feel better. We’ll throw in a “blecch” for you.
Raven
@OzarkHillbilly: I got it too, day 4.
Baud
@Princess:
Best solution is to nominate someone else.
debbie
@Betty Cracker:
Boy, I recognize that hand gesture of hers! “End of discussion!”
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Hope your misery is over soon. I’m finally getting over my 12-week version of it.
Betty Cracker
@Nicole: I hope Van Drew possesses enough self-awareness to realize how small he looks in comparison to the Trump district Democrats who had the courage to vote to impeach. Probably not, though. More likely he’s realizing he read the room all wrong.
m.j.
Testimony.
The cry of the vanguard.
Kay
@Princess:
I thought Bernie was terrible in the 2016 race- I don’t buy his wide-eyed innocent thing where he accused Clinton of corruption but wouldn’t stand by it face to face, BUT, he’s no Tulsi. He votes with the Democrats in the Senate. As a senator, he always held up his end of the bargain. Tulsi’s a whole different thing. Sanders was a perfectly acceptable senator. His supporters are kind of delusional about it. Sanders made a deal to privatize part of the VA. He will and has compromised, and in ways his supporters wouldn’t accept from anyone else.
mrmoshpotato
@debbie:
We’ll have to send out a search party to make that even remotely possible.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
“Ok, it says “defend the Constitution.” In thought it said “upend the Constitution.” My bad!”
debbie
@Kay:
He better be careful before McConnell places a horse’s head in his bed. //
Anne Laurie
Was wondering if he’s mad at the fact that his (former?) brand was disclosed, so now he’s experimenting with new tints. You know how hard it can be to match a discontinued shade…
If so, dumb mistake, because it has people speculating he’s got some kind of skin disease he’s trying to disguise!
Baud
@Kay:
According to comments in the Obama thread last night, his supporters don’t think Bernie is an old, white guy.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Baud with the early morning funnies!
debbie
@Anne Laurie:
Maybe some sort of chemical reaction between the orange makeup and his angry, red-flushed face.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I see that Mark Meadows won’t run again and is talking of leaving Congress early. Wonder what that’s about.
I was out last night and am still catching up. I heard a bit of Steny Hoyer’s speech in the car, but that’s it. I need to make coffee and settle in.
mrmoshpotato
@Anne Laurie: Alex, I’ll take “He is a skin disease” for $500.
TS (the original)
@Kay:
Only time he is seen is when standing next to Nancy Pelosi and saying nothing. Way past time the democrats replaced him.
gene108
@Kay:
Van Drew was a reliable Democratic vote.
He badly misread his district, when he came out against impeachment.
He failed on responding to it. He could’ve changed his decision. Gave a mealy mouthed “I saw new evidence, and changed my mind”, but he then said he’s switching parties.
He’s screwed.
I just hope the folks in NJ-2 will be able to find a good replacement. They are working on a very short time frame to come up with one.
I feel sorry for them.
Patricia Kayden
@Citizen_X: The problem is that Republicans like McConnell and Graham feel that they can d anything they please with zero consequences. And voters keep re-electing them.
SFAW
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
With any luck, that scumbag will take his accrued sick days/vacation, and leave right effing now.
Ken
@mrmoshpotato: I’m voting lizard person. Sure, it’s a deranged fantasy normally found only in the fringe areas of the internet, but such things seem to be the basis for our foreign policy these days.
Anne Laurie
From what I know of Battle Creek, the young’uns may be there to assist their grannies / gramps get those mobility scooters into the arena from the frozen parking lot.
Like so many places in the Rust Belt, the only young people left are the ones with family obligations, from elders who need daily support to the babies they had as teens (because ‘sex ed leads to promiscuity’)… and / or ‘personal challenges’ (some mix of mental / behavioral health issues, frequently concurrent with addiction).
Steeplejack
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
On Morning Joe they said it’s to take some (unspecified) position with Trump.
debbie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
He said his work with Trump “had just begun.” Sounds like a threat!
mrmoshpotato
@Ken: Hmmm….I stay away from the “Turn the freaking frogs gay!” territory.
Kay
@TS (the original):
Amen. I’ve reached the point where I’m like “hey! asshole! You have to pitch in“. It would be nice if Pelosi could point to the stack of bills she’s passed and hand off explaining the Senate to the D leader over there. Where is he?
Trump goads him at rallies. Says he’s known him for years and that Schumer kisses his ass. Okay, probably a lie, but they have had a decades long relationship and I wonder.
Betty Cracker
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Read some speculation earlier that Meadows may have resigned to replace Mulvaney. IIRC, Meadows was considered for the CoS role at the start of the admin but not picked because of embarrassing scandals on his record. Given how things have played out since, it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s being considered again. The stuff he did was small potatoes compared to the scandals that have engulfed the Trump admin, and the quality of hires always goes down, not up.
satby
@debbie: photos of the House passed bills piled up on McConnell’s desk has been a FB and Twitter meme for the last few days. Senator Duckworth has one on her FB wall, and probably also in her Twitter feed, and she’s not the only one.
TS (the original)
@germy:
Probably the only young ones at the event – they find them as they find non-white people to show to the cameras – probably pay some of them as well.
BobS
@Betty Cracker: He’s ratcheting up to full blackface.
Steeplejack
@Kay:
Supposedly Schumer is a big fundraiser. Dunno why he needs to be minority leader to do that. ?
Nelle
@OzarkHillbilly: Did yours come with laryngitis?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Trump invoked Baron’s name in his speech to attack Warren. I thought that was the worst thing you could do.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
Plus Mulvaney may be coming under scrutiny for his role in holding up the Ukraine funds and generally enabling Trump’s malfeasance. Possible underbussing ahead?
satby
@OzarkHillbilly: feel better soon OH!
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly: That sucks, man.
Barbara
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Waiting for the other shoe to drop on that one too.
Kay
I ask my older kids to send me links to what they want for Christmas. My middle son is always the last.
I just got his link and laughed out loud. It’s a 10,000 dollar dirt bike. He’s getting a flannel shirt. Has gotten, because he waited so long. I think it’s nice he shared that with me, though. Dreams are good. Hopes. Aspirations.
p.a.
@Anne Laurie: It’s proven that Fux etc would darken Obama’s skintone to make the scary black man blacketty blacker; do they ‘humanize’ trump’s radiation glow to lower his freak quotient?
Betty Cracker
@Kay: LOL, $10K bike!
My daughter wants a $1K camera, but she knows there’s no way that’s happening, at least not solely from us. She asked me to tell all the relatives who ask me what she wants (that’s how it works — no one asks her directly, they ask me) that she wants Amazon gift cards so she can amass enough for the camera. Maybe it’ll work, if she saves up enough on her own to supplement the gifts.
Kay
@Steeplejack:
Schumer got a lot of credit for the ’06 wave but that whole thing became fanciful. Every faction took credit. Both Howard Dean and Rahm Emanuel took credit, at the same time, in opposite directions. It was either a bold progressive victory (the 50 state strategy) or a reasonable centrist victory (also 50 state strategy). I thought Emanuel had the better argument because what a 50 state strategy does is elect Democrats from more Republican areas- they tend to be centrists. No one ever mentions that last part.
Butter Emails
@SFAW:
As Kay noted, the Turtle’s failure to bring this mountain of bills up for a vote or pass Senate versions is something Pelosi brings up at nearly every if not all of her press conferences and media appearances. She’s not the only house member who does so. Individual members also trumpet key pieces of legislation they’re involved with.
The issue largely seems to rest with the media who devoted far more time to each Republican vote to repeal Obamacare than to the bills the House has been passing – often with bipartisan support.
Not sure how to fix this. Maybe Democrats need to add some theater. Create the appearance of disarray and contention before ultimately passing the legislation.
BobS
@Kay: One possible reason:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh8rpFTVBuM
They share a similar high regard for the United States Constitution they ostensibly swore an oath to.
JoeyJoeJoe
On a thread last night, someone asked about which Republicans In the House represent Hillary Rodham Clinton districts. There are three: John Kati from Syracuse, Brian Fitzpatrick from Bucks County, and Will Hurd. Here’s a link to full results for all districts:
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2012/11/19/1163009/-Daily-Kos-Elections-presidential-results-by-congressional-district-for-the-2012-2008-elections
Patricia Kayden
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
Oh, that’s a good plan. I hope she gets it. It IS kind of nice to see what he likes. He’s very quiet.
Of my kids he’s the one who thinks I have the capacity to be “fun”, which I really appreciate. He was here last weekend. He had bought a Lime scooter at an auction and he spent the day getting it running. He needed a warm garage. He’s like “try it- if you like it you can keep it”. None of the others would ever consider I might like a scooter. I’m not that fun but I like that he thinks I might be, if given a chance.
Jinchi
So… Trump thinks you owe him personal allegiance if he doesn’t explicitly cancel your spouse’s funeral?
Betty Cracker
Beyond grotesque:
Not sure the “counter-puncher” thing works to excuse attacks on dead people and widows, but what else have they got?
Patricia Kayden
Steeplejack
@Butter Emails:
I will note that Morning Joe had Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) on this morning, and she made lengthy mention of the legislative logjam on McConnell’s desk, to general tut-tutting. So the issue is getting a little coverage.
Baud
@Jinchi:
Hard to believe someone like that would solicit political favors from a foreign country in exchange for congressionally authoritized aid.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Did you try it yet?
Ken
@Jinchi: She’s lucky Trump doesn’t have Dingell’s corpse dug up and whipped. Such a Cadaver Synod is within his Evangelical-granted authority of the Mandate of Heaven and next-best-thing to Jesus.
Immanentize
@SFAW:
He was the co-creator with Dean Kamen of FIRST — the Lego Robotics league my son competed in for years. The Immp’s team jersey (The Brainstormers) is signed in sharpie by both Kamen and Flowers after the teams epic underdog win at Ford Field in Detroit…. Flowers was such a great and kind hippy nerd. Everyone revered and loved him.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kay:
Did you try it? Is it living in your garage now?
SFAW
@Butter Emails:
Unfortunately, I don’t watch a lot of TV (nor similar), so I didn’t know about the Speaker’s modus operandi re: mentioning the bills every time. So, thanks to you and Kay for enlightening me. That said, I still think it would be helpful for some prominent Dem, with attack-dog skills, to bring it up at every opportunity.
I agree that the media are (for the most part) pretending the Dem issues/complaints don’t exist. But with enough “working the refs,” that might change. That’s part of the Rethug 1980-and-beyond playbook which got us to this stage, Dems should try to reverse that trend. If only there was something like the RNC, but for the Dems, who could maybe (help) coordinate that effort.
Jinchi
@Baud: Tulsi’s base is largely made up of Trump supporters who kept her polls high enough in New Hampshire to qualify for the first 5 debates.
Being a troll is her campaign strategy. She can’t quit now.
SFAW
@Immanentize:
I’m envious of The Immp, and glad that he got to meet Woodie. My contact with Professor Flowers was (regrettably) minimal, but he was a good guy.
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly:
@Raven:
You two take care. If it’s the same chest crud I had, it lasted a looooong time.
E
@JGabriel:
It’s really very simple. Trump desperately wants a trial so we can be acquitted. Democrats really don’t care if there is a trial or not. Democrats will be more than happy to just leave it like this. The president is impeached. End of story. Trump however would go crazy with this hanging over his head that he’s just an impeached president. He’s the one that desperately wants the trial. Yet they can’t have one until Pelosi allows them to. She holds all the cards. Trump wants the trial. Democrats really don’t care if there is one. But he can’t have one until Pelosi sends over the Articles. She has all the leverage here.
JMG
@Betty Cracker: People have always believed Congress is doing nothing. It’s an element of our national mythology, like Grant being drunk all the time, the Pilgrims eating turkey at Thanksgiving or the Founding Fathers being devout Protestants. When random people say that, it just means they pay little attention to politics.
Betty Cracker
@JMG: Good point.
chopper
@Betty Cracker:
so he thinks debbie dingell should have voted against impeachment because ‘he did her a favor’, but quid pro quo didn’t happen cause he would never even consider that sort of thing.
Amir Khalid
@chopper:
Trump never thinks his bullshit through, does he? He flings it reflexively at his target as soon as it occurs to him.
Jean
Over at TPM:
McConnell Plans To Mock Pelosi For Being ‘Too Afraid’ To Give ‘Shoddy Work’ To Senate
rikyrah
@Gin & Tonic:
Literally all roads lead to Firtash.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
I was just thinking that this morning!
Dorothy A. Winsor
A cry in the darkness
zhena gogolia
@Quinerly:
Thanks, good suggestion.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack:
Yay!
rikyrah
@Kay:
I love your way with words, Kay :)
zhena gogolia
@debbie:
What’s interesting is that it’s a motherly expression in terms of also being affectionate. I find it so adorable that she feels that way about them. With good reason, as the Dems in the House presented themselves beautifully yesterday, and through this whole process.
utterdregs
@Gin & Tonic:
@Gin & Tonic: And thence to Vlad.
Another Scott
@SFAW: As I recall, Moscow Mitch’s standard answer when questioned about it is something like, roughly, “The Senate will take up the bills when we have the President’s agreement that he’ll sign them. We’re not going to waste our time otherwise…”
The framing of that is even more treacherous than just sitting on them, IMHO. He’s saying the Senate is nothing more than a lapdog for the President. That it has no independent role. That the cannot over-ride a President’s decision via a 2/3 vote with the House. That the Senate has no business having policy views of its own.
But he rarely gets questioned about that. It’s just, “Well here’s what Moscow Mitch said, so there’s nothing that can be done. In other news, here’s 10 minutes of Donnie’s latest rally. See how the totally representative black and hispanic people and the women and the young people love him! Democrats are obviously dooooommmmeeddddd!!”
Grr….
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
No- it was dark by the time he was done and I was too scared to go the first time in the dark. He’s coming for Christmas so I might try it then. He did leave it so maybe it’s mine now? Maybe this was a gift? Who knows. He’s inscrutable. He’s living in a mobile home in rural Michigan because he broke up with his gf. He seems happy though- it’s 300 dollars (!) a month so he must have plenty of money. I’m afraid to see it, so I haven’t been out there. Not that he invited me. I picture it as one of those ones with insulation covering the windows. I get it- they’re freezing, but boy that must be grim. I hope it’s a newer model.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: Arguing with Jesuits rarely goes well.
SFAW
@Another Scott:
Your last paragraph makes me think of the LGM post today re: Cillizza has reached Peak Cillizza. Not exactly the same, but certainly the lazy-ass, stupid framing which we have come to expect from Cillizza. [Just to be clear: I’m of course not saying that you are the lazy-ass, stupid one.]
Quinerly
@zhena gogolia: just popped in and saw you posted this. The entire feed is great. I’m essentially Agnostic but love me some Jesuits.
Quinerly
@Gin & Tonic: ❤️
VOR
@germy: Per WaPost, Lara Logan began working for Sinclair in 2019 as a “temporary special correspondent”.
Amir Khalid
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
That lovely Spanish word comes to mind: pobrecito.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I have to go see my cardiologist. Back soon. (Just a regular 6-month checkup)
Gin & Tonic
So Pompeo is planning a visit to Ukraine, where he will meet with Zelensky. As I commented yesterday, the WSJ is reporting (based on just the headline, the rest is paywalled) that he wants Bill Taylor out of Kyiv before he arrives. Taylor took on the acting Ambassadorship on a temporary basis (he’s 72 and basically retired) and his posting was always supposed to end fairly soon, but this is, in my opinion, wholly unprecedented – SoS visiting a foreign capital wants no US ambassador there at the time. Great way to show support for the Foreign Service – I lack words here.
Also odd, the dates – I don’t know exactly when, but Ukraine’s Channel 5 is saying “beginning of January.” If the US had anyone in a position to impart local knowledge, they might tell Pompeo that the capital more or less shuts down between New Year’s and Orthodox Epiphany (January 19.) If he comes during that time he’s spoiling a lot of people’s Christmas vacation (Christmas is on January 7.)
gene108
@SFAW:
Or a billionaire, who hates Trump, who doesn’t mind lighting a few ten’s of millions of dollars on fire for shits and giggles, could run ads highlighting this.
Why the Do-Nothing Dems narrative has taken hold is Trump and Republicans repeat it over and over again, and the media selectively plays those highlights, as well as nothing gets done, because of Senate Republicans.
Kosh III
” Senators must take a public vote”
I did two searches for “impeach” and “impeachment” and found nothing in the Constitution about public vote.
IMHO if it’s a private vote he’ll be convicted.
Kosh III
@Another Scott:
Unlike the ACA or anything else when the illegal alien Muslim colored boy from Kenya was in THEIR “White” House.
Quinerly
@Gin & Tonic: thanks for this post. Very interesting.
SFAW
@gene108:
I am a little embarrassed I did not think of that. Thanks!
SFAW
@Kosh III:
Nice dream, but not likely he’d be convicted, even with a private/secret vote.
Based on nothing more than my “read” of the Party of Traitors, and their wish to keep hurting non-wealthy/brown/”other” Americans.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Sounds like it’s your scooter now. :)
@Gin & Tonic: Wow. Assuming for the sake of sanity that we get rid of Trump next year, it’s going to take a lot of work to rebuild relationships.
PsiFighter37
@SFAW: Given the GOP’s penchant for cowardliness, I think he would be. I have to think Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio would like nothing better than to shiv Trump in the back. They’re just too chicken to do it in public.
Bill Arnold
@Betty Cracker:
Projection blurting forth from some vestigial guilty conscience? (Somebody had to say it.)
Gin & Tonic
So I’m getting word that Pompeo’s visit to Ukraine is scheduled for Jan 3-4. That’s like scheduling an official visit to D.C. for December 28-29. Between New Year’s and Christmas (January 7) basically nobody works. This is either idiotic or grossly insensitive, or perhaps both.
Bill Arnold
@Another Scott:
That doesn’t eliminate the truth that the bills are sitting in his inbox. Either the Senate (MM) or D.J. Trump are blocking them; the House is doing its job; the Republicans are not.
mrmoshpotato
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Old material! Lame! Sad! Impeached!
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic:
Ridiculous.
J R in WV
Not a lawyer, but have owned a lot of vehicles… won’t even a scooter have a DMV title? Which says who owns it?
Even rickety little trailers full of lawn mowers and weed eaters have license plates…
LongHairedWeirdo
Is that correct? The Constitution says “Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”
I’d always read the “and” as inclusive – removal from office, and disqualification for any other office. It seems crazy that a person would be removed from office for high crimes and misdemeanors, but, hey, you can have another shot at it, if you want.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
Based on my experience, it was never affectionate!