Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

A consequence of cucumbers

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

There is no compromise when it comes to body autonomy. You either have it or you don’t.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

In my day, never was longer.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Every accusation is a confession.

Every accusation is a confession.

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Have we done this one yet? It’s all over Twitter, and it is amazeballs:

Here’s a transcript for those who wish to avoid the horror of watching Trump’s slimy meat-slab lips opening and closing like a beached blowfish as he frantically waves his stubby hands and the light gleams on the brassy cotton-candy comb-over:

Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. He’s weak, and he’s ineffective. We have a real problem in the White House. So, I believe that he will attack Iran sometime prior to the election because he thinks that’s the only way he can get elected. Isn’t it pathetic.

Yes, it is pathetic because this nine-year-old video is all the explanation we need for the assassination of the Iranian general earlier this week. It’s all projection — every fucking word of it. It always is:

  • During the Obama years, Trump used to complain about how lazy President Obama was. In office, Trump sits around on his lard ass live-tweeting Fox & Friends.
  • Trump lambasted Obama for squandering taxpayer money by occasionally golfing. Since taking office, Trump has spent more than the combined salaries of every president from George Washington to the present on golf trips to self-branded resorts — while praising himself annually for “donating” his salary.
  • Trump whines about Democrats spying on his campaign in 2016. His own campaign eagerly worked with a hostile foreign power to coordinate the distribution of stolen emails to smear Democrats.
  • Trump screams “witch hunt” about an exhaustively documented investigation led by a lifelong Republican who was appointed by a Trump appointee. Then he orders the DOJ to fan out worldwide and investigate alleged malfeasance that previous Trump-appointed officials have fruitlessly investigated multiple times, finding nothing.
  • Trump claims the DNC/Ukraine/Soros worked together to sandbag his campaign and calls critical op-eds from Ukrainians “election meddling.” Meanwhile, Trump’s goons place hit pieces against Biden in U.S. media outlets, and Trump used the power of his office to shake down a vulnerable ally for reelection assistance in the form of a phony investigation of Biden.

I could go on — Trump certainly does, daily demonstrating more capacity for projection than every cinema chain on the planet combined and multiplied by infinity. At this point, would it surprise anyone to learn that TRUMP was actually born in Kenya?

Reader Interactions

178Comments

  1. 1.

    sukabi

    It would surprise me if he was actually born in Kenya.. or anywhere as I’m pretty sure he’s just an animated pile of crap.

  2. 2.

    bystander

    The minute I heard twitler say, “No Benghazi”, I knew we were in for a real sh*t show.

  3. 3.

    Boris, Rasputin's Evil Twin

    Never thought I would find myself considering Nixon’s virtues, or even thinking he had many, but Trump made me think of Tricky Dick almost fondly.

  4. 4.

    JPL

    Wouldn’t it be nice if Steyer or Bloomberg used their money to mock this. That might even embarrass his base.

  5. 5.

    germy

    He accused the Clinton Foundation of being the most corrupt thing in the world. Meanwhile he used funds donated to his own “foundation” to buy crap for himself.

  6. 6.

    hilts

    Betty,
    I agree with every word in your post. Unfortunately, many villagers, especially the crew at Morning Joe will fall in line behind Trump on this Iran story and many commentators on cable and in the pages of the NY Times and Washington Post will say this was Trump at his most presidential.

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    he needs to believe everyone is as dishonest and empty as he is

    Stephen Hayes Retweeted David French
    Donald Trump attacked Pete Buttigieg for “trying to pretend he’s religious,” claiming Buttigieg became “extremely religious” just “two weeks ago.” None of that is true. Six weeks ago, @DavidAFrench offered a fascinating look at Buttigieg, Trump, religion and politics.

    I’m an atheist, and religiosity in pols often makes me cringe– it’s part of why I was slow to get on the Obama train, but I know and admire a great many seriously devout people. And the cynical pragmatist in me just likes having someone who can answer them back in their own language.
    And I can’t believe, especially given the news today (oh, boy), that I’m quoting the guy who wrote a whole book about how Saddam did 9/11 (The Connection), but that’s the way we live now, in the times that trump has made.

  8. 8.

    germy

    @JPL:

    The only campaign commercials I see on TV are from Steyer and Bloomberg.  Mostly Steyer ads, where he claims he “defeated” the NRA

  9. 9.

    Ruckus

    Born in Kenya?
    Nothing stupid would surprise me about trump. He is the epitome of doing stupid stuff to enhance himself and failing miserably at it. Moms could teach their kids about abject failure by just pointing to him. Some will say “He won the presidency!” but he had to have another country cheat for him to do it and that other country and it’s leader own him. Literally. Own. Him. He is everything wrong with human beings, all in one craptastic package.

  11. 11.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I saw there was a clip and assumed it was the one I just saw on twitter in which someone asked him if he had an exit strategy for Iran, and he said we weren’t going to need one.

    I don’t know what that means.

  12. 12.

    hitchhiker

    slimy meat-slab lips opening and closing like a beached blowfish …

    That’s our president. But not for long. I remember when the 2nd W administration was winding down, how it seemed like we’d been stuck with him forever … now in less than half that time it’s much, much worse.

  14. 14.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @germy: I see the one where he tells me we both know term limits are the answer. More than once I have said “Fuck you” out loud back to the TV.

    Somebody posted poll results earlier showing Bloomberg at 11%– one poll, outlier, he’s going nowhere yada yada, but god that was depressing for so many reasons.

  19. 19.

    germy

    “What does it mean to be a citizen of a country on the wrong side of every liberation struggle on this earth?” – Audre Lorde

    — Johnny E. Williams (@jwillia2) January 3, 2020

  22. 22.

    germy

    Stefanik’s favorite books list draws snarky responses
    Congresswoman sought reading suggestions from public

    U.S. Rep. Elise Stefanik, R-Schuylerville, who rose to national prominence this fall by ardently defending President Donald Trump during the House impeachment hearings, got a lesson in being careful what you ask for.

    The congresswoman, who has posted her favorite books of the year at the end of December since taking office in 2015, recently asked the public for reading suggestions through the internet.

    What she got were hundreds of earnest answers, but also hundreds of snarky suggestions, presumably by Trump critics who felt Stefanik’s dogged defense of the president during impeachment hearings ignored his alleged subversion of the rule of law. And those responses caused a Twitter sensation, again putting the national spotlight on Stefanik, albeit not a polite one.

    Critical writers suggested she read the U.S. Constitution, the Mueller report (which was critical of the president and did not exonerate or accuse him of illegal interference in the Russia investigation) and a wide variety of reporting on Trump and his dealings with Ukraine, as well as other issues relating to the president.

    The hubbub led to a story in the Huffington Post headlined, “GOP Rep.’s Request For Reading Recommendations Goes Spectacularly Awry.” The brief story quoted a number of critical tweets.

  23. 23.

    Ruckus

    @hitchhiker:

    As bad as GWB was, and he was bad, trump is far, far worse. GWB is ten times the human that trump is, and that is not damning with faint phrase because GWB barely qualifies.

  24. 24.

    JaneE

    If you look at whatever Trump accused Obama of doing that Obama didn’t actually do, then you have a road map for Trump’s actions and plans.  It may not even be intentional.

    The GOP chooses to live in a world where everything is the opposite of reality.  Sooner or later it will come back to bite them, but not before they do real damage to the country and the world.

  26. 26.

    Betty Cracker

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Fellow atheist, and I also applaud when Democrats who are Christians reclaim Jesus from the Party of the 7 Deadly Sins. That’s one of the things I found interesting about Buttigieg before he left me on the side of the road with a hard swerve to the center. (To be fair, it paid off for him!)

  27. 27.

    mrmoshpotato

    Glad we have 63 million piles of deplorable Trump trash ready to enlist for their orange god-emperor.  Oh wait…

    When is Susan Sarandon getting drafted?  Will she be leading a company of deplorables?

  29. 29.

    James E Powell

    @germy:

    The only campaign commercials I see on TV are from Steyer and Bloomberg.  Mostly Steyer ads, where he claims he “defeated” the NRA

    I’m only seeing the Bloomberg ad and only when I watch sports. I’m in SoCal. All that money and what’s it bought him?

    I know it’s a useless exercise, but think how that money might have been better spent.

  30. 30.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Ruckus: you’re reading a different NYT and WaPo than I am. The Times leading ME correspondent, Rukmini Callimachi, has a viral twitter thread (she’s apparently on vacation) pointing out that the administration’s justifications are “razor thin”. The top story on the Post’s website is headlined “Trump plunges toward kind of MidEast conflict he pledged to avoid”, and it’s a news piece, not opinion. This is the very right-wing Anne Applebaum’s reaction to the Post story about trump’s decision, which makes pretty clear that they remembered the “imminent threat” language after the fact:

    Anne Applebaum‏Verified account @anneapplebaum 4h4 hours ago
    Here is an example: with all due respect to the good reporting in this piece, why should we believe any accounts, official or off the record, of what Trump claims he is doing in the Middle East?

  31. 31.

    zhena gogolia

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, I’m having the same impression you are. No “aluminum tubes.” Bret Stephens s–t something out but I can’t bear to look at it. Other than that, the NYT is not cheerleading. Yet.

  32. 32.

    SFAW

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    He apparently can’t imagine that someone he strikes or assaults or insults will strike back. It’s bizarre.

    I imagine that’s because he, as with most bullies, only strikes those without the wherewithal to strike back or defend themselves.

    One of the things I had hoped for during the 2016 Debate, where he was stalking Hillary around the stage, was for her to turn around and say to him “Back the eff OFF, you candy-ass, before I pound you into next week.” Now of course, she is too classy to have done that, but I think he would have started crying — literally? Figuratively? Not sure which — if she had.

  33. 33.

    hilts

    @Ruckus:

    We are completely fucked.  Even if a Democrat beats Trump, McConnell will resume his role as the Grim Reaper.

    Just cue the killer asteroid that wipes out all life on this planet.

  34. 34.

    mrmoshpotato

    @SFAW:

    One of the things I had hoped for during the 2016 Debate, where he was stalking Hillary around the stage, was for her to turn around and say to him “Back the eff OFF, you candy-ass, before I pound you into next week.” Now of course, she is too classy to have done that, but I think he would have started crying — literally? Figuratively? Not sure which — if she had. 

    “Waaaaaaahhhhhh!!!!!  I’m gonna tell my daddy Vladdy on you!”

  35. 35.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    a long article from 2016 about how the trumps probably laundered Islamic Revolutionary Guard money through their unfinished and now abandoned project in Baku, Azerbaijan.

    Adam Davidson‏Verified account @adamdavidson 1h1 hour ago
    Soleimani overesaw IRGC effort to avoid sanctions/acquire WMD by using front companies. Very few American businesspeople would work with these fronts and their schemes. But the Trump Org did, knowingly, right through the 2016 election.

  36. 36.

    germy

    @SFAW:

    One of the things I had hoped for during the 2016 Debate, where he was stalking Hillary around the stage, was for her to turn around and say to him “Back the eff OFF, you candy-ass, before I pound you into next week.”

    HRC mentioned that moment during her interview with Howard Stern.  She said she was tempted to turn around and tell him to “back off, creep” but she knew if she reacted… the press would have a field day with the “excitable woman”  and “if she can’t tolerate Trump, how is she going to face Putin”  etc.

  38. 38.

    Another Scott

    @germy:

    Not only did he buy crap for himself with funds from his foundation, he has a history of buying fake crap. He’s too stupid to know the difference (and thinks nobody else does either).

    VF:

    Years ago, while reporting a book about a real-estate developer and reality-TV star named Donald Trump, Tim O’Brien accompanied his subject on a private jet ride to Los Angeles. The plane, as you can imagine, was overly ornate; hanging on one wall, for instance, was a painting of two young girls—one in an orange hat, the other wearing a floral bonnet—in the impressionistic style of Renoir.

    Curious, O’Brien asked Trump about the painting: was it an original Renoir? Trump replied in the affirmative. It was, he said. “No, it’s not Donald,” O’Brien responded. But, once again, Trump protested that it was.

    “Donald, it’s not,” O’Brien said adamantly. “I grew up in Chicago, that Renoir is called Two Sisters on the Terrace, and it’s hanging on a wall at the Art Institute of Chicago.” He concluded emphatically: “That’s not an original.”

    Trump, of course, did not agree, but O’Brien dropped the conversation topic and moved on with his interview. He thought that he had heard the last of the Renoir conversation. But the next day, when they boarded the plane to head back to New York City, Trump again pointed to the painting, and as if the conversation had never happened, he pointed to the fake and proclaimed, “You know, that’s an original Renoir.” O’Brien chose not to engage, and dropped the conversation.

    Years went by.

    […]

    You can guess the rest, but it’s worth a read.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  39. 39.

    opiejeanne

    @mrmoshpotato:  Yes! We shouldn’t just lie down and die, not just yet. We need to work to elect more Democrats to the US Senate and House. We need to take it all.

  40. 40.

    trollhattan

    @germy:

    Glaring at him and pointing to his lectern without a word could have been epic.

    It’s what Nancy would do.

  41. 41.

    Brachiator

    @JPL:

    Wouldn’t it be nice if Steyer or Bloomberg used their money to mock this. That might even embarrass his base.

    It would just go over their heads.  And besides, this presidency is a travesty of a mockery of a sham.

  44. 44.

    MattF

    @Another Scott: Repetition of the same lies, over and over again, is a Trump trademark. It’s called perseveration— well-known (and irksome) behavior for a toddler, a tell-tale sign of neurological problems in an adult.

  47. 47.

    Yutsano

    @hilts:  With all due respect: fuck your defeatism. We ain’t lost  the election yet and there are Dems all over the country dying to get Dolt45 out of the White House. And that means coming for Yertle too.

  48. 48.

    dww44

    @JPL: Yes to the first sentence and hardly likely on the 2nd one. The malevolent force is strong with that group.

  49. 49.

    jc

    It’s a shame that Trump is going to need to be considered credible in spades in the coming year. Unfortunately, credibility has to be earned, it can’t just be claimed in his alternate reality spin machine. And damn, sir, you’ve done an amazing job of not earning it. I hope your bottomless bad faith is your undoing.

  51. 51.

    Ruckus

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    OK it’s not all knob polishing for him but there are a lot of people rushing to say how presidential this is and how valuable this attack is. And yes I’m paraphrasing but the majority of pushback I’ve seen is not coming from the MSM.

  52. 52.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Animal Farm Explains It‏ @animal_farm_84 4h4 hours ago
    Animal Farm Explains It Retweeted Lindsey Graham
    “Squealer was sent to make the necessary explanations to the others.”

    Lindsey GrahamVerified account @LindseyGrahamSC
    President as Commander in Chief has the authority and obligation to protect American forces in harms way. He did the right thing.

  53. 53.

    John Revolta

    I think her best reaction would’ve been along the lines of “Donald…………are you okay? Can we get somebody to lead Donald back to his podium? I think he’s lost…………”

    Pelosi would’ve been more like “Donald, go stand over in your spot. The grownups are talking”.

    That would’ve worked too, but Pelosi has always had fewer fucks to give.

  54. 54.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Dave Weigel‏Verified account @daveweigel 6h6 hours ag
    Something I’m looking out for in Iowa/next week is how the Soleimani/assassination test manifests. Talking to Sanders voters last night in Iowa, I did not find people with strong opinions about whether the US should kill foreign generals under AUMF. (1/2)

    Bernie-twitter, of course, is outraged at the suggestion that Bernie supporters are not appropriately and righteously outraged about something. Same at Warren town-hall today

    Dave Weigel‏Verified account @daveweigel 57m57 minutes ago
    We are 47 minutes into this Warren town hall, her first since the Souleiman killing, and no one has asked about it. Klobuchar got no Qs about it, Sanders got two over two days. Just not dominating as an issue yet.

  58. 58.

    trollhattan

    @senyordave:

    Thankyavermuch. I’ll take good care with it.

    When I think of Trump collecting “art” I flash to Carmella Soprano’s Lladro collection. WWCSB

    Much of what I understand about Trump I learned from “The Sporanos” and “The Godfather” although their food was much better.

  59. 59.

    mrmoshpotato

    @opiejeanne: Little edit here.

    Yes! We shouldn’t just lie down and die not just yet. We need to work to elect more Democrats to the US Senate and House. We need to take it all.

    That’s better.

  60. 60.

    Butter Emails

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Most American’s aren’t going to give a rat’s butt about offing Soleimani one way or the other unless it causes blow back that exceeds what is now the current background noise of death and destruction in the region.

  61. 61.

    Ruckus

    @hilts:

    That’s not what I said.

    Yes it’s not all daisies and caviar but we do have to fight and we can still do that. This is a democracy, of sorts, and in any democracy there will always be a segment that doesn’t want anyone else to get anything, just like in any other political system. Right now those people seem to have won, in Vlad’s trying to overthrow our system and make himself richer. But they haven’t. They are losing more and more as every day goes by and their “leader” makes an even bigger ass of himself.

    I thought Vietnam was a bad time but this is worse. Which means we have to work harder to make it better.

    I’m going to suggest that after we do that, maybe we should reflect upon on our internal weaknesses as a country and address those. We started out with 3 equal branches of the government but have lost control of that. We need to take that back.

  63. 63.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @trollhattan: my mom had a bunch of lladro, I originally wrote “has” but now that I think of it, I don’t remember it in her apartment. Maybe it went to the goodwill when they downsized.

    This has me thinking of the movie The Freshman, which I love, but the relevant clip is not on the youtube

    ETA: WWCSB? what would Carmela Soprano buy?

  66. 66.

    Suzy

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: publicity works. I find it outrageous that a billionaire can buy himself relevance in a primary. And Bloomberg doesn’t even participate in debates.

    I wonder… who is/are the second choice(s) of Bloomberg supporters ?

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    @MattF:

    It’s also a trademark of narcissists. They tell the same lies over and over again until the people they’re dealing with give up and let them “win.”

    In many ways, narcissists are emotional toddlers in adult bodies, so it makes sense that they would still be doing toddler behaviors.  

  69. 69.

    SFAW

    @germy:

    HRC mentioned that moment during her interview with Howard Stern.  She said she was tempted to turn around and tell him to “back off, creep” but she knew if she reacted… the press would have a field day with the “excitable woman”  and “if she can’t tolerate Trump, how is she going to face Putin”  etc.

    I understand her reasoning, and agree that the Villagers would have responded “poorly,” but I think that poor response would have lasted for one, maybe two weeks. I think she could have also turned it to her advantage: “Hillary will handle Putin, Kim, Iran, or [insert appropriate name] as easily as she handled den Scheissgibbon.”

  71. 71.

    JPL

    @oatler.: I read that they are considering giving the entire 4-6 pm time slot on MSNBC to Nicolle.   Chuck would go to 9 am when Stephanie Ruhle moved over to NBC as their full time business reporter.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    @SFAW:

     I think she could have also turned it to her advantage: “Hillary will handle Putin, Kim, Iran, or [insert appropriate name] as easily as she handled den Scheissgibbon.”

    See, she IS a Warmonger!

  73. 73.

    patrick II

    I don’t think he sits around all day just because he is lazy.  I think he doesn’t know what to do.  He knows how to con and how to appeal to the lowest of low denominators.  That’s it.  He doesn’t understand even how to have fun, to enjoy music or arts, to have a kid’s science fair, or even what science is, let alone the complexities of affairs of state.

    That is more than lazy, that is a very damaged human being afraid to admit his inadequacies even, or especially, to himself.  Unfortunately it seems contagious.

  74. 74.

    trollhattan

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    ETA: WWCSB? what would Carmela Soprano buy?

    Si. It was endlessly fascinating to me how Tony would always eventually buy Carm off no matter what awful thing she caught him in. Made it all the more devastating when he bought Anthony Junior off with an M-series Bimmer. Only Meadow seems to have escaped the Soprano grasp (or did she…?)

  75. 75.

    Kay

    Speaking of birthers:

    On April 20, 2011, Melania appeared on the Joy Behar Show and backed up her husband’s allegations that Obama wasn’t born in the state of Hawaii like live birth records suggest.
    “It’s not only Donald who wants to see [Obama’s birth certificate], it’s American people who voted for him and who didn’t vote for him. They want to see that,” she argued. Behar then made the point that the birth certificate had already been on display and all over the internet. “We feel it’s different than birth certificate,” Melania responded.

    Every single Trump is awful.

  77. 77.

    trollhattan

    @patrick II:

    “He’s in Executive Time. And it’s all Executive Time.”

    Have they converted the WH briefing room into a TRUMP casino yet?”

  78. 78.

    Ksmiami

    @Ruckus:  literally the reason I’m unhappy with the Democratic primaries is this: We are in a cold-but heating up Civil War with people (Republicans) who are against Constitutional Democracy and I don’t think we have time to figure out whose health plan is best etc – literally we are in an existential battle and the lead guys don’t seem to understand this fact

  79. 79.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:

    That Melania quote reads wonderfully in a Natasha Fatale accent. That same afternoon:

    “Okay Donald, I am saying everybody who voting is, thinking Obama not American is, on the teevee. I can have Saks card of credit back now?

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @trollhattan:

    The double standard for the two First Ladies is interesting, to say the least.

    The NYTimes tracked Michelle Obama back 4 generations, yet not a word on Mrs. Trump’s background or family.

    No explanation why one was treated like they were conducting a background check and the other was given a complete pass.

  82. 82.

    John Revolta

    @patrick II: He knows how to have HIS kind of fun. But since he can’t screw around with hookers or hang out at beauty pageants or grab starlets by the p***y anymore, yeah. He’s bored and has no idea what to do with himself.

  84. 84.

    jimmiraybob

    @Betty Cracker: “…the Party of the 7 Deadly Sins.”

    There was a time that I would have reflexively assumed that this meant “against” the 7 Deadly Sins (negative virtues).  But I can’t think of one that they don’t embrace like a stuffed teddy bear.

  85. 85.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud:

    I feel as if Biden is the one who gets it more than the others. He wasn’t my first choice but I’m coming around.

  87. 87.

    trollhattan

    @Kay:

    No kidding. I’ve been “informed” with straight face that Michelle’s mom was on the WH payroll as the girls’ nanny. Meanwhile those Trumplings are all there for free, surrendering millyuns because they love their country so much. Ugh.

  88. 88.

    JPL

    @Baud: Andy Lack.   I googled and came up with this article

    wallace     https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/report-mtp-daily-could-be-dropped-from-the-5-p-m-time-slot-giving-nicolle-wallace-2-hours-on-weekdays/425639

     

    I need a tutorial  in how to link..

  89. 89.

    Baud

    @zhena gogolia:

    Biden has been the best over the past 4-6 weeks in taking a more “visionary” view of what Trump represents. I don’t know that it’s affected the polls much though.

  90. 90.

    Chetan Murthy

    @zhena gogolia:

    I feel as if Biden is the one who gets it more than the others.

    @Ksmiami:

    ​We are in a cold-but heating up Civil War with people (Republicans) who are against Constitutional Democracy

    Wait, wut?  [to be clear, I’m Team Broken Glass]  Sure Biden gets that he’s gotta throw actual punches at Don Bedsore.  But I don’t think he extends that to the entire GrOPer establishment; quite to the contrary, he’s on record as believing that GrOPer Senators will change their tune if he meets ’em halfway.  He can’t even fucking call ’em out for wanting him to testify — when he was one of their colleages for god-knows-how-many fucking years.

    His inability (unwillingness?  does it matter which?) to call it what it is: a cold-but-warming Civil War, is part of what makes me think he’s a bad choice.

  93. 93.

    Ruckus

    @Ksmiami:

    How can they run on “There is fire everywhere, and the president – and his party have their heads lodged in the exit orifice. Elect me to fix that!” It’s what’s needed but saying it out loud doesn’t elicit the warm response that one might expect in professional vote getting circles. Clinton actually won, but is she president? And if it were someone just saying I’m better, I’m better at the top of their lungs, BS would be the overwhelming candidate. How’s that working out? I would think that most people running for a top national office would have at least a touch of narcissism, an appreciation of their accomplishments and record, and little shame in discussing that over and over. That President Obama seemed to have none is, in my mind, a testament to him as a person, and to his mom as a parent. It’s the overwhelming level of narcissism that’s bad and trump isn’t the only one with a case of it.

  96. 96.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    Well no overt or spoken reason.

    The one that needs no explanation of course is “she’s a democrat!”

  97. 97.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    Trump’s birth certificate says that he was born in JAMAICA, not Kenya.

    Tots jerk chicken, he is.

  98. 98.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Baud:

    But who has?

    To be elected to high office in America, as a Democrat, one must genuflect in the direction of bipartisanship.  So it is written.  So you won’t find other candidates saying it, but you will also not find them arguing that they can bring Moscow Mitch to the table to deal fairly.  Only Biden argues that.

  99. 99.

    Ksmiami

    @Baud: I know I was accused of being anAnti Bernie troll but   I am genuinely fearful that Trump’s re-election is the end of everything- I know Joe appears to make nice overtures to the GOP but I’m hoping that it’s to try and get the 3-5 percent of ppl we need in swing states – the other candidates are lobbing shit at eachother

  100. 100.

    hitchhiker

    @Chetan Murthy: he’s on record as believing that GrOPer Senators will change their tune if he meets ’em halfway. He can’t even fucking call ’em out for wanting him to testify — when he was one of their colleages for god-knows-how-many fucking years.

    Well, okay. Let’s say Biden imagines a future in which Pelosi is the speaker with a healthy majority and Mitch has lost his majority by a hair.

    What does he lose by suggesting he’d be happy to work with them? I mean, there are now more people who want to call themselves Independents than people who want to call themselves R or D.

    Of course the Rs are not going to play ball, no matter what, ever. It’s become their brand to be assholes, and they’re stuck with it.

    But right now, during the campaign, he’s got to talk to Independents and convince them that he really is the generous-spirited, well-seasoned, sane elder who wants to be done with all this ugliness.

    (I think this is how he sees himself, for real.) He can only govern if he has a majority, and I don’t think for one second he really believes that Mitch would come around, or allow any of his members to cooperate.

    But he still has to signal willingness, because that’s his brand.

  101. 101.

    LuciaMia

    At this point I would almost welcome a military coup. At least it would take the nuclear codes out of his hands.

  102. 102.

    Baud

    @Chetan Murthy:

    That’s a different issue. The fact that Biden is limiting his fight to Trump doesn’t change the fact that he is only candidate a making broad thematic arguments against Trump, while the others seem to be focusing on policy, right or wrong.

  103. 103.

    prostratedragon

    At this point, would it surprise anyone to learn that TRUMP was actually born in Kenya?

    Just joining the thread, but if anyone has already nominated this for the rotating tags, I second.

  106. 106.

    ThresherK

    In that thread there’s a pic of the FTFNYT front page of the day when Bill Clinton, in the middle of being hunted by impeachment, ordered the strike which came within 90 minutes of hitting Osama Bin Laden (three years before 9/11, five years after the “little” World Trade Center attack).

    Replete with “wow, history repeats itself” shit comments.

    Republican? No, Bernie fan.

    What a good look for them!

  107. 107.

    mrmoshpotato

    @debbie: Years of being the Kremlin’s bitch and yelling about a black man who’s infinitely better than you will do that.

  108. 108.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Baud:

    he is only candidate a making broad thematic arguments against Trump

    *cough*

    After the Mueller report, Congress had a duty to begin impeachment. By failing to act, Congress is complicit in Trump’s latest attempt to solicit foreign interference to aid him in US elections. Do your constitutional duty and impeach the president.
    — Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) September 20, 2019

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/19/18508224/elizabeth-warren-mueller-report-trump-impeachment

    Elizabeth Warren calls for Trump’s impeachment
    She and Julian Castro are the first 2020 contenders to do so.

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) has called for President Donald Trump’s impeachment after the release of the Mueller report.

    The senator and 2020 hopeful reacted to special counsel Robert Mueller’s 448-page report, which was released on Thursday and detailed the findings of a nearly two-year investigation, in a series of tweets on Friday.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/22/kamala-harris-impeachment-donald-trump-1287206

    Harris calls for impeachment

    Democratic 2020 hopeful Kamala Harris wants the House to impeach President Donald Trump, but doesn’t necessarily expect it to be a successful effort.

    “I believe Congress should take the steps towards impeachment. But I want to say this, because it doesn’t end there,” the California senator said on a CNN-hosted town hall Monday. “I’m also a realist. … I have also witnessed folks in the United States Congress, and in particular in the GOP, who have been presented with many reasons to push back against this president and they have not.”

    I got bored and stopped there.  Warren, Castro, Harris, all back in April 2019.  And sure, Harris & Castro are gone now.  But Warren is a top-tier candidate.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    @Chetan Murthy:

    I’m talking about how they’re implementing their primary campaign strategy. Not individual statements about specific events.

    ETA: edited to clarify I’m talking about the primary so far.

  110. 110.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: Eh?

    E.g. Warren called for Trump’s impeachment after the Mueller Report was released.  Biden didn’t call for Trump’s impeachment until October.

    I think you’re making a bigger deal of Biden’s limited recent public statements than what Warren and others have done.  Warren’s been after Trump for a long time – she hasn’t just been pushing her Plans for That.

    My $0.02. YMMV.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  113. 113.

    Ksmiami

    @Baud: yeah Twitter talk is cheap- Trump is a goddamn menace to society, nature and the world and a fucking mobbed up criminal who has no right to make life and death decisions for  the rest of us. He is a sick sadistic pos who has no respect for America’s institutions or failsafes and I and 65 million other voters are  not committing suicide for him

  116. 116.

    Spanky

    MIAMI — In his first public appearance since the strike that killed Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani of Iran, President Trump rallied his evangelical Christian base of supporters on Friday, portraying himself as the restorer of faith in the public square and claiming that God is “on our side.”

    Mr. Trump brought to the stage Cissie Graham Lynch, a granddaughter of Billy Graham, the founder of Christianity Today, to offer an implicit rebuke of the magazine’s recent editorial calling for his removal from the White House .

    Ms. Lynch’s appearance underscored how sensitive Mr. Trump was about any signs of fracturing in his base; many evangelical allies denounced the editorial , and Ms. Graham Lynch vowed on Friday to help Mr. Trump win re-election. She then welcomed a supporter to the stage who told attendees that they could not trust what the news media wrote about the president.

  119. 119.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Given the length of the campaign season and the many, many appearances made by all candidates, there’s no reason why each of them couldn’t do both

    ETA: This is the one thing I like about what he’s doing.

  120. 120.

    Another Scott

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m not so sure.

    E.g.Politico from December:

    Warren’s top foreign policy aide Sasha Baker, Sanders allies point out, is a more traditional choice, having served as deputy chief of staff to Barack Obama’s Defense secretary Ash Carter.

    Warren’s worldview is most distinct when she ties it back to her message of the political and economic system being rigged. “Washington’s focus shifted from policies that benefit everyone to policies that benefit a handful of elites, both here at home and around the world,” she said in her speech last year.

    Warren spokesperson Alexis Krieg told POLITICO that “Elizabeth believes that by pursuing international economic policies that benefit American workers instead of an elite few, and using diplomacy to amplify strong yet pragmatic security policies, we can achieve a foreign policy for all.”

    Sanders’ top aides and surrogates argue that his international, worker-focused vision makes him best equipped to take on the so-called “Blob,” a term of derision for what is seen as bipartisan Washington group-think on foreign policy. Sanders has railed against establishment U.S. foreign policy since his time as mayor of Burlington, Vermont, in the 1980s — cultivating relationships with Nicaragua, Cuba and the Soviet Union — and his team believes only radical new leadership will avoid repeating past mistakes.

    There are substantial differences between them. Warren is her own person in this race.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  121. 121.

    Baud

    @debbie:

    It’s all about strategy. No campaign can do everything worth doing. They all decide what they think will work best for them.

    Biden could not get away with being an in-the-weeds policy person IMHO.

  122. 122.

    Kent

    @germy:

    One of the things I had hoped for during the 2016 Debate, where he was stalking Hillary around the stage, was for her to turn around and say to him “Back the eff OFF, you candy-ass, before I pound you into next week.”

    HRC mentioned that moment during her interview with Howard Stern.  She said she was tempted to turn around and tell him to “back off, creep” but she knew if she reacted… the press would have a field day with the “excitable woman”  and “if she can’t tolerate Trump, how is she going to face Putin”  etc.

    If he pulls the same shit again, I think the pitch perfect response by Warren or Klobuchar would be to turn around and say:

    “Are you lost Donald?  Do you need to take a moment?”  turns and looks off stage and waves  “can we get someone to help Mr. Trump back to his podium?  He seems a little disoriented”

  125. 125.

    Mai naem mobile

    Leave Kenya out of this Betty. Kenya deserves no connection to this asshole even though it is consistently  in the top ten most corrupt countries in the world.

  126. 126.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    What Biden says about Republicans, whether he believes it or whether he’s appealing to those “suburban” voters who like to hear about bipartianship means dick-all. The way to deal with Mitch McConnell is to take his majority away. That’s it. Willard Romney is a coward. Susan Collins is a fraud. Lamar Alexander is likely to be replaced by someone much much worse.

    So which candidate is the least likely to inspire tote-baggers to go with split-ticket voting in the name of the kind of “keep them honest” clichés that stupid people who read the NYT and think of as high-minded and above-it-all?

  127. 127.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud:

    Biden could not get away with being an in-the-weeds policy person IMHO.

    That’s what Ron Klain is for.

  128. 128.

    sukabi

    @Baud: Biden would get hopelessly lost if he tried to get into details. He’s never been able to tell a simple story without wandering off after some random thought.

  129. 129.

    Kent

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    What Biden says about Republicans, whether he believes it or whether he’s appealing to those “suburban” voters who like to hear about bipartianship means dick-all. The way to deal with Mitch McConnell is to take his majority away. That’s it. Willard Romney is a coward. Susan Collins is a fraud. Lamar Alexander is likely to be replaced by someone much much worse.

    So which candidate is the least likely to inspire tote-baggers to go with split-ticket voting in the name of the kind of “keep them honest” clichés that stupid people who read the NYT and think of as high-minded and above-it-all?

    Um yes.  This EXACTLY

  131. 131.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    The Beast now saying on twitter that we have identified 52 sites (one for each of the hostages from 40 fucking years ago) in Iran as bombing targets if they retaliate. I’m sure they’ll back down now. Peace Through Strength.

    If my math is right following the graphic TRMS had last night of active duty personnel in Iran’s neighborhood, from Syria to Afghanistan, that number is close to 60,000.

  133. 133.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    John Hudson‏Verified account @John_Hudson 16m16 minutes ago

    Trump appears to be now threatening to bomb/destroy cultural sites inside Iran

    Donald J. TrumpVerified account @realDonaldTrump
    ….targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets, and Iran itself, WILL BE HIT VERY FAST AND VERY HARD. The USA wants no more threats!

  134. 134.

    GOVCHRIS1988

    @Kent: 

    As much as people keep believing the bipartisanship talk should hurt, Biden’s lead this whole time is proof that this might not be a bad strategy. We’re political junkies, so we of course know who Mitch McConnell is and how evil he is, but ask anyone outside of Kentucky who he is and it would be like Jimmy Kimmel asking who the vice president is outside his studio. Suffice it to say, you have to convince THOSE people to vote for you and in spite of them living in a blue state, probably believe the current Republican problem is a Trump problem that gets fixed with Trump than a longtime Republican one.

    I don’t believe Joe Biden believes he will have true “bipartisanship” once he gets elected. Senator Voinovich told him as much when he was the new Vice President. But, an election is not about being right or forward, its about winning, and as of now, Joe Biden is winning.

  137. 137.

    Mnemosyne

    @sukabi:

    I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Biden has ADHD. I have it myself, so I don’t see it as disqualifying.

    Trump probably has it, too, but he’s also a toxic narcissist, which is a way bigger problem than mere ADHD.

  138. 138.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    trump’s top military advisor

    Jason Campbell @ JasonSCampbell
    On the possibility of an Iranian cyberattack, Fox’s Pete Hegseth says “I just have visions of Iranians throwing computers at us”

    Hurr hurr hurr

  139. 139.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @Kay: 

    No explanation why one was treated like they were conducting a background check and the other was given a complete pass.

    It could be as simple as the genealogist that they hire every four years knows nothing about researching the area, and they decided it wasn’t worth hiring a specialist for. Or Melania’s parents declined to give them the necessary information to get started.

  140. 140.

    Baud

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Trump appears to be now threatening to bomb/destroy cultural sites inside Iran

    Donald J. TrumpVerified account@realDonaldTrump
    ….targeted 52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture, and those targets

    I can’t recall. Did the media say that Obama appeared to be wearing a tan suit?

  141. 141.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Looks like Trump has decided to re-enact 1979, only this time the American hostages will be the troops that we just sent overseas, because taking a bunch of Americans hostage seems like the logical counter-move for the Iranians here. Great job, Donnie! ?

  143. 143.

    Mai naem mobile

    I was at CVS the other day and they had a sign for Epoch Times on their very small magazine rack in the front of the store. I was in a hurry so I didn’t take the time to see if they had the actual magazine on the rack. This store is a couple of miles from ASU not some rural redneck area.

  144. 144.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I know next to nothing about Islamic culture and Persian history, but it occurs to me that if anything could at least make Shi’ites and Sunnis hate somebody more than each other, it would be blowing up some thousand-plus year old shrines that both sides consider sacre

    ETA: wondering what idiots drew up the list for him, could just as easily been Bolton or Stephen Miller doing a google search like I just did.

  147. 147.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @debbie: yup, first time they came on my radar

    I imagine the police chiefs of every cathedral city in Europe is now updating their own security protocols.

  150. 150.

    Kent

    @GOVCHRIS1988:

    As much as people keep believing the bipartisanship talk should hurt, Biden’s lead this whole time is proof that this might not be a bad strategy. We’re political junkies, so we of course know who Mitch McConnell is and how evil he is, but ask anyone outside of Kentucky who he is and it would be like Jimmy Kimmel asking who the vice president is outside his studio. Suffice it to say, you have to convince THOSE people to vote for you and in spite of them living in a blue state, probably believe the current Republican problem is a Trump problem that gets fixed with Trump than a longtime Republican one.

    I don’t believe Joe Biden believes he will have true “bipartisanship” once he gets elected. Senator Voinovich told him as much when he was the new Vice President. But, an election is not about being right or forward, its about winning, and as of now, Joe Biden is winning.

    Several issues here:

    1.  We only watched the 8 years of the Obama Administration.  Biden lived it day in and day out.  As he is currently living having his name being drug into the Ukraine impeachment scandal.  I’m quite certain he has ZERO illusions about the current composition of the Republican Party and the likelihood of bipartisan anything.
    2. As a General Election strategy it is probably not a bad thing and probably helpful to tone down the partisanship.  Especially when trying to win back swing voters in swing states.  Talking about “working with sensible Republicans” is probably the right way to attract former Republican voters.
    3. How this sort of thing serves to rally the base and generate coat tails?  Honestly I have no idea.   I don’t think they are mutually exclusive.  You can have someone like Warren putting together 100 different progressive plans for everything and then also say she is looking forward to working with sensible Republicans to pass them (knowing full well there isn’t a snowball’s chance of hell of that happening).

    Honestly I think political talent trumps carefully calculated policy positions every time.  Obama and Bill Clinton won elections because they were generational political talents, not because of any policy positions they put forward.  Honestly, Trump basically did the same thing but coming from the dark side.

  152. 152.

    Mnemosyne

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Older than that — remember that the ancient Greeks were battling the powerful Persian empire at least 4,000 years ago. Some of the oldest historical sites known to humans are in that area. And Donnie’s going to bomb them because his fee-fees are hurt. ?

    Hopefully the curators and other staff are packing up and moving what objects they can to protect them from the fate of the historical objects that were in Iraq that we didn’t give a shit about, either.

    Also, someone can correct me, but I believe that deliberately bombing World Heritage Sites is an actual war crime. Again.

  154. 154.

    Mnemosyne

    @raven:

    Oh, I know. And Pence and his buddies are happy to get rid of any evidence that human civilization is way older than their pastors told them.

    I’m still pissed about the incalculable damage to our collective history, though.

  155. 155.

    joel hanes

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    if he had an exit strategy for Iran, and he said we weren’t going to need one.

    I don’t know what that means.

    I’m afraid that it may mean that the fucking moron thinks we can successfully invade Iran, occupy it indefinitely, and “take their oil”.

  158. 158.

    Citizen Alan

    @debbie:

    Remember the destruction of the statues of Buddha?

    I sure do. I also remember that before 9/11 probably not 1 American in 10,000 had a clue what the Taliban was. It was when I realized that the overwhelming majority of American have zero clue about what happens in other countries until it affects us and only the vaguest clue thereafter.

  160. 160.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Baud: I saw a short video of hers at one of her campaign stops where she is said that she is still BS’s friend and still supports M4A. This was posted by an EW supporter who was upset that EW was not taking the fight to BS like she did with Pete B.

  161. 161.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Omnes Omnibus: I could be wrong about this, but ISTM the citizens of other countries must necessarily know more about the USA, b/c what we do can so easily affect them.  I know that when I lived/worked in Europe, the Europeans I met all knew far more about the USA (all facets) than I did about any of their countries.

  163. 163.

    Kent

    @Chetan Murthy:@Omnes Omnibus: I could be wrong about this, but ISTM the citizens of other countries must necessarily know more about the USA, b/c what we do can so easily affect them.  I know that when I lived/worked in Europe, the Europeans I met all knew far more about the USA (all facets) than I did about any of their countries.

    This is exactly true.  My wife’s family is from Chile so we spend a lot of time in Chile and I have lots of political conversations down there over wine and pisco sours.   Once in a while we swing around to the observation that Chileans always know more about American politics than we do about theirs.  To which I respond.  “Fine.  Tell me what you know about politics in Romania or Malalwi or Kazakhstan.  Those are the countries most similar to Chile in size.”

  165. 165.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Kent: How aware were they of the politics of other South American countries?  I’d guess *very*?  Europeans were very aware of the politics of other European countries; less of countries further away.  Thing is, most Americans know nothing of even Canadian or Mexican politics.

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I saw a short video of hers at one of her campaign stops where she is said that she is still BS’s friend and still supports M4A. This was posted by an EW supporter who was upset that EW was not taking the fight to BS like she did with Pete B.

    I saw a tweet about that town hall and I got the impression that frame of the question (assuming we’re talking about the same one) is that she’s gone soft on Single Payer

    WATCH: Asked by a potential caucus-goer why she wouldn’t go straight to M4A–essentially why she thinks we need a 3-yr transition while @BernieSanders doesn’t–@ewarren says, “We need to get the votes, & we need to give people some experience with it,” referencing ACA transition

  167. 167.

    StringOnAStick

    @Kent: Mmm, pisco sours!  I had one made with ginger juice in Puerto Natales last year that remains my favorite hard alcohol drink ever.

  168. 168.

    Kent

    @StringOnAStick: My in-laws know better than to show up here without a couple of bottles of pisco and pisco sour mix packed in their bags!

    It is astonishingly hard to find pisco here in the US.  The very biggest liquor stores sometimes have a few bottles.  Usually some moderate priced stuff from Chile and some ultra-expensive stuff from Peru.  But you really have to search hard.  The other problem is that liquor stores here don’t know what it is or where to put it.  Pisco is white wine brandy. But they usually hide it with the Caribbean rums or some such.

  171. 171.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @Chetan Murthy:

    So you won’t find other candidates saying it, but you will also not find them arguing that they can bring Moscow Mitch to the table to deal fairly.  Only Biden argues that.

    Sanders has some interesting theories about getting Republican Senators to vote for his M4A and other big plans. Biden’s not the only one who spins fantastical tales about R Senators.

  172. 172.

    Suzy

    @zhena gogolia: Joe Biden says he entered the race precisely because Trump is an existential threat to the soul of the nation. From his interviews in the past few years, he wasn’t necessarily convinced about running, but felt the urgency after Charlottesville. Was revulsed at the damage Trump was inflicting, and felt that he was better positioned than many other democrats to rally a large coalition in order to restore governance on a normal, and more generous, footing. His domestic agenda is pretty progressive, but less so, obviously, than those of Warren and Sanders.

    Warren and Sanders, at the core, have always been running on domestic policy, to confront income inequality and corporate power.  In both cases, this domestic agenda has also been the core motivation of their entering politics.

    Buttigieg, Booker, Castro entered the race to get more name recognition and maybe the vp slot. I think Kamala Harris wanted the same thing, maybe more.

  173. 173.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:

    Sanders has some interesting theories about getting Republican Senators to vote for his M4A and other big plans.

    Oh ha, yeah, his “we’re gonna have a RevolLUtion, and they’ll be FORCED to do it” shit?  Yeah, that’s ridiculous.  And that’s why he’s low on my list of candidates.  And in any case, I’ve never heard him say that he can reach some sort of bipartisan agreement with the GrOPers.  But they’re both pretty awful, sure.

  174. 174.

    Baud

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, a top-tier candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, sparred with the hosts of “The View” on Wednesday as he defended his policies and electability.

     

    The 77-year-old independent said he would work with politicians on the other side of the aisle if elected president in 2020.

     

    Sanders said he has “conservative friends that I like and respect” while expressing his view that President Donald Trump is a danger to the country.

  175. 175.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Suzy: I think Harris was absolutely in it to win. Booker, too. There’s an old story that when CB was watching Obama’s 04 speech the friend he was with leaned over and said, “Well, Book, maybe you can be the second black president.”

    I agree with what you say about Biden, but also I’d add in his son’s death. Beau was gonna be President Biden, and the father has picked up the torch from the son.

  177. 177.

    sab

    @Kent: Thread dead, but I LOVE your reply. My dad has dementia and is lives in a memory unit. This is how we talk to the residents. I caught one of them escaping down an open stairwell. When I told her she had to go back she called me a piece of crap. I stood my ground. Fun times in eldercare. And I am 65 and keeping the very olds in line.

  178. 178.

    barb 2

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    OMG — Trump intends to nuke Iran. That is sort of like the Biblical mythology of destroying a nation, their people and the land they lived on. Their blood thirsty god told them to salt the land so that nothing could grow.

    With Trump’s claim of not needing an exit strategy — we can translate that to a threat to nuke Iran and do nothing about any survivors?????

    Early in his occupation of the white house – he claimed he could get out of various hot spots in just days. Turns out he was going the just nuke the nasty bits into compliance. Then one of his staffers told him he could not do that. I’ve read about that early threat to use nukes where ever he wanted. Perhaps he now has new staff who never say no?

    I guess Trump would inform Putin first?

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