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You are here: Home / Organizing & Resistance / Enhanced Protest Techniques / Noisy Futility Open Thread: Friday Night Party Edition

Noisy Futility Open Thread: Friday Night Party Edition

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There’s a subsect of Performatively Woke social media that will never stop resenting the Boomer Generation who (according to some vaguely remembered high school history slideshow) unfairly scored all the really cool public protests. Willowy young people with flowers’n’beads! Wall-to-wall coverage on the three existing tv news channels! LBJ and Kissinger, who were worthy opponents!…

Today’s big public protests are all ‘whinemoms’ in silly hats, cheerily organizing bus drop-offs and handing out water bottles and snack bags. No more transgressive than your average suburban soccer practice, except the under-18s swarming these modern protests have no respect for their expensively-educated elders.

Obviously, this is all Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi’s fault.

Reader Interactions

219Comments

  4. 4.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Damn, shades of 1930s Germany were the Communists thought it was great the Nazis took over because the Nazis would purge all the moderate liberals.

  5. 5.

    Adam L Silverman

    I have two major issues with Senator Sanders and his supporters. The first is his unwillingness to be straight with everyone about the actual impediments to implementing his platform should he be elected, not the aspirational nature of much of it. He and his supporters seem to not understand that you campaign in poetry and govern in prose. And the second is that he just doesn’t have a very good understanding of Americans and revolution and rebellion. Every major and successful revolt and rebellion in US history, from the War of Independence, to all the small, localized rebellions (Shays’, Whiskey, Gilbert’s, the Carlisle, PA one) between the founding and the refounding with the Constitution and Bill of Rights to the Great Rebellion now DBA as the Civil War to the late 19th and early 20th Century populist revolts, such as the progressive one that led to the Wisconsin Idea to the Civil Rights Movement to the great conservative lurch among major organizations in the late 1970s (NRA, Southern Baptist Convention, the GOP) were all led by and driven by elites. It is not that the non-elites and non-notables didn’t have important roles to play or do important and necessary work or weren’t supportive, they did and were, but that elites revolt and rebel in the US when they feel their interests are at stake and being negatively impacted not non-elites who are just trying to survive from day to day. The successful ones also bring the non-elites along, but with the exception of some of the organized labor actions in the US, and before that slave revolts, almost all of which ended violently with labor or the slaves on the losing end of the elite directed counter-revolutionary violence, revolution and rebellion in America is something done by elites.

    And this reality ties into the first point. His ideas aren’t bad. I like the passion. But he’s not a team player, he’s not a joiner. And to be honest, neither are most other Americans. Especially if it requires them to be made uncomfortable and risk things. He also doesn’t seem to understand, though Trump seems to grasp it instinctively, that revolution and rebellion always include violence. Especially the successful ones. And while the political violence that accompanies them may break current law, if it is successful, as the Italian fascist (national syndicalist) theorist Sergio Panunzio delineated in the 1920s that successful uses of political violence are self justifying by their success. How many of Bernie’s supporters, let alone his elite and notable surrogates are willing to engage in actual revolutionary violence? I like AOC, I think she’s smart and tough and will hopefully turn into a work horse, not a show pony, but do you think she would take up arms? I’m pretty sure Nina Turner would cut a bitch; I can see her gleefully reveling in such violence. I don’t see Sirota doing so. Or Zogby or Konst or Duss or Michael Moore. Especially because they all have the resources and the wherewithal to ensure they are not affected by the violence that will run wild upon his non elite supporters like hungry wolves in winter. And they all have far too much too lose from actual revolution.

  6. 6.

    A Ghost To Most

    It’s militant ponyism like this that has convinced me to vote for Biden. Well, that and the poltroon wusses around here.

  8. 8.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t see Sirota doing so. Or Zogby or Konst or Duss or Michael Moore.

    Sirota I’d bet is 100% in for “Let’s you and him fight!”. Michael Moore … ugh

    @JPL: He would hate hate hate seeing protests outside his tower, I’d bet. Especially with the trump baby and signs about bone spurs and VD was my Vietnam and….

  9. 9.

    JPL

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to protest in FL where the asshole is?   Wouldn’t it make more sense to protest in KY where the other asshole lives?   I’m not sure what is happening.

  10. 10.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @A Ghost To Most:

    It’s militant ponyism like this that has convinced me to vote for Biden.

    I’m getting there.

    Well, that and the poltroon wusses around here.

    eh?

  12. 12.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Adam L Silverman: I saw a tweet today concerning Wilmer’s anti-war bona fides which stated as fact that he not only did not vote in 1972 (when the choice between war and anti-war was crystal clear) but that he was not even registered to vote.

    I do not know (and do not care to research) the facts, but that would be, as the kids now say, huge if true.

  17. 17.

    James E Powell

    I just saw a Tom Steyer TV ad for the first time (Titans @ Patriots on CBS).

    Why would anyone believe that a billionaire hedge fund manager wants to end the corporate takeover of America? Hasn’t he spent his whole life promoting that?

    And overall, he just doesn’t make much of an impression.

  18. 18.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JPL: You can’t get a decent bagel and a smear in Florida or Kentucky. Also, public transportation is almost non existent in Florida and Kentucky.

  20. 20.

    Suzanne

    Glad to see dengre fighting the good fight.

    As opposed to these dickweeds, who are fighting the stupid fight.

  22. 22.

    kindness

    Bernie didn’t vote in ’72?  The Vietnam war was still going till ’73.  WTF is wrong with Bernie?  (and his supporters who think Bernie not voting in ’72 is something to brag about).

  24. 24.

    jl

    @Gin & Tonic: “I thought this was a full-service blog.”

    We’ve all been waiting for the feature that reads commenters’ minds and gives them what they want before they know they want for far too long.

    I, for one, am fed up. And some call it a ‘full service’ blog.

  25. 25.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Gin & Tonic: It was in reporting by someone I consider trustworthy and accurate and it fits both what we know of his early career and what he was doing at that time, so I didn’t feel the need to fact check further.

  26. 26.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Squirrel!

     

    It’s a pathetic attempt to deflect their blame for aiding and abetting Dump’s election.

    Susan Sarandon specifically justification her assistance to Dump on her belief he wouldn’t start a war with Iran.  To maintain this fiction and to deny their culpability they still have to pretend its a Democrat’s fault (“look what you made me do”).

    Sad!

  27. 27.

    zhena gogolia

    NYT: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Vice President Mike Pence were two of the most hawkish voices arguing for a response to Iranian aggression, according to administration officials. Mr. Pence’s office helped run herd on meetings and conference calls held by officials in the run-up to the strike.

  28. 28.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    another account of the road to escalation, a few more details building on the LA Times and Post accounts

    WASHINGTON — In the chaotic days leading to the death of Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani, Iran’s most powerful commander, top American military officials put the option of killing him — which they viewed as the most extreme response to recent Iranian-led violence in Iraq — on the menu they presented to President Trump.
    They didn’t think he would take it. In the wars waged since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Pentagon officials have often offered improbable options to presidents to make other possibilities appear more palatable.
    After initially rejecting the Suleimani option on Dec. 28 and authorizing airstrikes on an Iranian-backed Shia militia group instead, a few days later Mr. Trump watched, fuming, as television reports showed Iranian-backed attacks on the American Embassy in Baghdad, according to Defense Department and administration officials.

    as ever, TeeVee and the ghost of Fred calling him a weakling are what set US policy

    gonna keep reading and see if this account mentions when they remembered to use the words “imminent threat”

  31. 31.

    Gin & Tonic

    @raven: Because if you profess to have been anti-war in 1972 but couldn’t be bothered to actually take 10 minutes to vote for the candidate who campaigned on a platform of ending the war, then your anti-war commitment was pretty thin indeed.

  32. 32.

    James E Powell

    @JPL:

    Sense? They don’t want to make sense. And they aren’t stupid, they just hate the Democratic Party more than any other political organization.

  33. 33.

    raven

    @Gin & Tonic: I don’t know if you have to be registered to vote to run for office but I do  know plenty of people thought voting in the presidential was pure bullshit.

     

    Sanders began his electoral political career in 1971 as a member of the Liberty Union Party, which originated in the anti-war movement and the People’s Party. He ran as the Liberty Union candidate for governor of Vermont in 1972 and 1976 and as a candidate for U.S. senator in 1972 and 1974.[51] In the 1974 senatorial race, Sanders finished third (5,901 votes; 4%), behind 33-year-old Chittenden County State’s Attorney Patrick Leahy (D, VI; 70,629 votes; 49%) and two-term incumbent U.S. Representative Dick Mallary (R; 66,223 votes; 46%).[52][53]

  38. 38.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @kindness:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Bernie is on record saying the first time he cast a vote was for….. wait for it…. himself (when he ran for the Senate in a 1971 special election).

    He couldn’t be bothered to vote in 1964 when desegregation, medicaid,  and medicare were on the ballot or in 1968 when Viet Nam was on the ballot.

    He is who we thought he was.

  39. 39.

    jl

    As for this post, seems to me this is a very small group of people, that makes zero impact.  So, let them make fools of themselves if they want. Everyone needs a hobby. Does the corporate media even bother to cover this nonsense and do their ‘Democrats in disarray!” schtick. This is DSA, but that wouldn’t stop the big media from saying it anyway, if they thought it would get some ratings. But so inconsequential, doesn’t seem so.

    Any commenter have evidence anyone notices these people, let me know and I’ll reconsider.

    What I am wondering is if it will take a spell to get impeachment over to Senate, why not work on some more in the House. Need them on Barr and Ross and DeVos at the very least. If Trump keeps up with his plan to start a war with Iran, one on violation of War Powers Act. That has been violated so many times by both GOP and Dems, that a very good case will have to be made. But if Trump carries through with his announced plans, I think need to do it.

    And, plenty of other things to impeach Trump on.

  40. 40.

    raven

    Over the years, it has selected various Presidential candidates from several national leftist political parties. For the 1971 and 1976 elections, the LUP was a member of the national People’s Party, thus the People’s presidential candidates were the LUP’s

     

    Spock.

  41. 41.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @jl: We’ve all been waiting for the feature that reads commenters’ minds

    Why do you think you got a time out? The blog knows what you thought.

  42. 42.

    raven

    I’m not defending this asshole I’m just saying plenty of activists didn’t vote. I didn’t vote for anything until 71 because i was too fucking young.

  43. 43.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    When Mr. Trump chose the option of killing General Suleimani, top military officials, flabbergasted, were immediately alarmed about the prospect of Iranian retaliatory strikes on American troops in the region. It is unclear if General Milley or Mr. Esper pushed back on the president’s decision.

    Sounds like leaks and non-denial denials. Are we at modified-limited-hang-out yet?

  44. 44.

    Ruckus

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’m a little wary of holding someones past from almost 50 yrs ago against them. Most people can learn, often they don’t, but still, a lot of people do not mature till later. That said my question of BS would be what have you ever done in your 78 yrs that would suggest that you are politically, physically, mentally, egotistically  prepared to be president? Because I see no evidence of any justification for that other than he can be shouty and fixed in his views and those aren’t very much positives.

  45. 45.

    Anne Laurie

    @Gin & Tonic: I saw a tweet today concerning Wilmer’s anti-war bona fides which stated as fact that he not only did not vote in 1972 (when the choice between war and anti-war was crystal clear) but that he was not even registered to vote.

    TBF, Sanders’ defense (during his 2016 campaign) was that if he’d registered to vote, he’d have been cited for not registering for the draft.  Even in 1972, this was an actual threat.

    On the other hand, Sanders continued to not-vote until he found a loophole in his town’s laws that gave him a shot at running for office.  His very first vote was for himself, which… As the old saying goes, Begin as you mean to go on!

  46. 46.

    Immanentize

    @Adam L Silverman:. I read on this very blog that we need to dig deep and learn to understand and respect Birdie Bernie and his followers because. Money? Something something? The Doors? Or, well,

    I got nothing

  47. 47.

    Anne Laurie

    @PsiFighter37: Wouldn’t be surprised if Bernie becomes the new LaRouche.

    Becomes?  I’d say that’s been his goal since at least 2016, and the behavior of his Biggest Stans right now is proof-of-concept.

  48. 48.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    ian bremmer‏Verified account @ianbremmer
    Mattis said he would speak out about Trump policies when time is right. If he stays silent through this, he’s no patriot.

    He was cool with babies in cages and the Gallagher pardon. You kinda have to think Mattis wears a MAGA hat as he wanders through the woods, or goes from speaking fee to speaking fee. Colin Powell too.

  52. 52.

    raven

    @Ruckus: At the dinner after the funeral an old friend started on how badly Nam vets were treated when we came home. I was sitting with my tracker buddy who got hit in the face and shoulder in Cambodia and I said “that wasn’t my experience”. The guy asked my pal about his experience and he said, “they said there were demonstrators at Travis so they sent up through another door. When I got home “Raven” picked me up, took me to all the places to get ready for school and financial stuff for the GI Bill. That was my experience”. It’s been driven into us so much that those dirty hippies were anti-soldier that I don’t think it will ever go away. No one I knew in the anti-war movement was anything but PRO soldier. They wanted them to stay alive and get out of that motherfucker.

  56. 56.

    joel hanes

    @James E Powell:

    Why would anyone believe that a billionaire hedge fund manager wants to end the corporate takeover of America?

    Steyer is my third-to-last choice (ahead of Bloomberg and Gabbard)

    Nevertheless, if you look at his history of philanthropic giving, he seems to have actually made some significant attempts to do the right thing.

    But yes: anyone who thinks that their first ever elective office should be the Presidency has a real problem with entitlement, arrogance, and delusion.

  59. 59.

    jl

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

     ” You know what to do, jl…email to Cole in ALL CAPS. ”

    I’m just cranky because when I read the title of the post, I thought it was a way to go back and party again on Friday night, even though it was Saturday.

    But, it turns out it’s some stuff about politics.

  61. 61.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Someone on twitter was wondering about all those Pentagon officials who resigned in the last month and wondering if that was connected to Trump’s Iran actions and threats. Possible?

  62. 62.

    raven

    @Ruckus: Swell, you and I are the same age. I voted when I could partly because I was denied the right for over a year after I came home.  I just don’t see what he did in that regard as any big deal. Voting was part of the “system” and lots of people didn’t believe in it.

  64. 64.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Anne Laurie: That’s not true.  He was registered with the draft. He applied and received conscientious objector status, claiming to be a pacifist.

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, the Kochs are funding research and education into Bremer’s “America Alone” theory of US defense, nat-sec, and foreign policy. Specifically that they US should pull back and retreat from the world, thereby ceasing to spend money on anything that is outside the US. Bremer is an isolationist. Despite turning himself into an inordinately wealthy for profit/for hire analyst, he’s also a fool.

  69. 69.

    jl

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:  Maybe some people sensed legal exposure if involved in Trumpsters’ latest threats. Preselecting 52 targets of historic, cultural and economic value to iran? Bomb them if Iran makes ‘threats’? WTF?

    Sure, given corruption of DOJ and Senate, they are untouchable now, but what about after Jan 2020?

  71. 71.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    I traveled mostly in uniform when I was in because mostly I flew and if you were in uniform the cost was a lot less and you got first standby preference. And the only time I saw anything remotely bothersome was when taking a buddy to LAX in for his flight to boot camp, watching the baggage loaders putting everything on the conveyer. One guy would take every duffel bag and slam it on the belt. Every suitcase, box, whatever got set on. That’s my extent of seeing harassment to military personal during Vietnam. I enlisted in  69 discharged in 73.

  74. 74.

    Another Scott

    Trump is now claiming that the Iran Revolutionary Guard is a threat to America.

    Odd, that didn’t stop him from laundering their money through his failed hotel in Azerbaijan.

    Maybe Trump just kills people when he can no longer squeeze a buck out of them. https://t.co/hWDAfkv1dY https://t.co/qhJ2R4L417— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@BettyBowers) January 3, 2020

    Mrs. Betty Bowers doesn’t mess around.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  75. 75.

    Chyron HR

    I love that Bernie’s worshipers are too deranged to keep up the pretense that he’s a “democrat” even as he runs for the Democratic nomination.

  76. 76.

    John Revolta

    These people are assholes.

    The B train, which is RIGHT THERE, will get you a couple blocks from Trump Tower in like 20 minutes. You wouldn’t even have to CHANGE TRAINS.

    What the everlovin fuck?

    ETA: The more I think about this the madder I get. I wonder how many of these jackoffs actually CAME OVER FROM MANHATTAN do do this little dance? Jeebus Crist

  77. 77.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    I don’t disagree. It was definitely a different time. And lots of people didn’t think that anything they did would make any difference whatsoever. I’d bet that many feel the same way today.

  78. 78.

    Another Scott

    TRUMP: “We have the best intelligence anywhere.”

    ALSO TRUMP: “Our intelligence that says Russia is interfering with our elections is lying because Putin told me to say that!” https://t.co/aDLzEOXmLY— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@BettyBowers) January 4, 2020

    Mrs. Betty Bowers doesn’t mess around.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  79. 79.

    raven

    @Baud: As much as I can recall it was just that he was really dull and didn’t stand much of a chance against the “silent majority”. The republican pukes managed to make a bomber pilot look like a wimp. . . sound familiar.

  83. 83.

    Mike in NC

    We’re watching Scorcese’s 3-1/2 hour epic about Jimmy Hoffa and other old school mobsters in “The Irishman” on Netflix. Trump would fit in perfectly with these goombahs from the 60s and 70s if he ditched the stupid red MAGA hat and got himself a nice fedora.

  85. 85.

    NotMax

    @raven

    Voting was part of the “system” and lots of people didn’t believe in it.

    When it came to exercising the vote, your “small circle of friends*” differed diametrically from mine at the time.

    *hat tip to Phil Ochs

  87. 87.

    Baud

    @raven:

    Yep. I still think people mostly believe what they want to believe, but the Republicans are good at understanding what people want to believe.

  88. 88.

    Another Scott

    @raven: My recollection (and I was just a tyke then) was that Kissinger’s “peace is at hand” announcement made a huge difference.  So many people were sick of Vietnam and wanted it to be over.

    Also too, Nixon had a huge campaign warchest – it was just flabbergasting.  He spent over twice what McGovern spent, and his $61.4M in 1972 wasn’t topped until Reagan in 1984. My father’s mother was a stamp collector and she had a bunch of Dick and Pat stamps (not legal postage, of course).  They were putting him and his message everywhere.

    No Democrat would have had a chance against him in ’72. Not even RFK.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    Ruckus

    @Anne Laurie:

    TBF, Sanders’ defense (during his 2016 campaign) was that if he’d registered to vote, he’d have been cited for not registering for the draft.  Even in 1972, this was an actual threat.

    Forgot about that. A side note, on the LA Metro commuter train 2 weeks ago saw an ad reminding those men turning 18 to remember to register. It is still the law and it’s still only men who can be drafted, even though women can fight and many have been seriously injured doing exactly that, Tammy Duckworth for example. There is a recent case that a judge decided that it was discrimination to not draft women now that they can fight in combat but the law hasn’t be changed yet.

  90. 90.

    raven

    @NotMax: Well our asses were on the front lines of the resistance so I’m not sure what your point is? Like I said, I voted when I was allowed to but I didn’t really think it meant shit. Marching on Washington with my brothers in the VVAW seemed more effective. If we’re going to cite Phil I’ll go with

    I Ain’t Marching Anymore

  91. 91.

    Ruckus

    @raven:

    The only people that fuck with me on twitter are Bernie bros.

    But logic isn’t their friend so whata ya gunna do?

  94. 94.

    lamh36

    Huh.  I seem to recall there being a 202 presidential candidate who spoke about Chumps twitter being a national security risk and should be suspended…went so far as to write a letter to Jack at twitter about it.

     

    Evem spoke about it at a debate and fellow Dem candidates to join with her, but she was scoffed at and attacked about it by some lefty podcasts and pundits.

     

    Now here we are…and huh…exactly what she brought up, he has done…and now folks calling on Jack to suspend Chumps twitter

  95. 95.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    @Baud:

    Republicans are good at understanding what people want to believe.

    I wonder if it’s just that they’re more willing to dishonestly pander to what people want to believe.

    I believe that’s referred to as the “hack gap”.

  97. 97.

    Patricia Kayden

    In Bush's Iraq War, they tried to shame us into silence with "if you're not with us, you're with terrorists."That war was a LIE.NOW, an admin that lies about EVERYTHING wants us to believe Iran is different?IT IS A LIE, meant to distract us from impeachment. #NoWarOnIran— BrooklynDad_Defiant! (@mmpadellan) January 4, 2020

  99. 99.

    NotMax

    @raven

    Was right there in the thick of it as well. For years. The difference of which I speak is we also organized voter registration among the protestors, employing voting as yet another tool to be used in the struggle to affect change to the system.

    Then, as now, the youngest cohort didn’t show up to vote in great waves either. That wasn’t a consequence of being anti-establishment; it’s just the way it has always been – and still is.

  100. 100.

    debbie

    I wonder if one of those Evangelical loons put a bug in Trump’s ear about bombing cultural sites. They’re all heretical anyway. //

  104. 104.

    Another Scott

    @Anne Laurie:

    This story of his sounds weird to me, so I checked Snopes:

    tl;dr – he had a student deferment until 1964 while he was in college in Chicago. He sought “conscientious objector” status (at some point?) and that application was rejected, but by that time he was too old to be drafted when his number came up.

    Registering to vote seems to have nothing to do with it, but maybe, somehow, it did…

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  107. 107.

    Ruckus

    @NotMax:

    I think that’s changing, what with Greta and all the school shootings, social media, people do pay more attention when it directly involves them. And they are the ones that will be around for decades of climate change. And a lot of them get that. It isn’t our world any longer. It’s theirs. Every march I’ve been to in the last 4 yrs has had a lot of young people, with signs and being pissed. They won’t all be but a lot more than when I was their age.

  108. 108.

    raven

    @NotMax: “the youngest cohort didn’t show up to vote” well since the voting age was 21 the “youngest cohort”  was in the street but not the polls. Some of us also were otherwise occupied for two or three years so it was hard to be “in the thick of it” depending  on what “the thick of it? meant.

  109. 109.

    J R in WV

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Because if you profess to have been anti-war in 1972 but couldn’t be bothered to actually take 10 minutes to vote for the candidate who campaigned on a platform of ending the war, then your anti-war commitment was pretty thin indeed.

    I have seen (like Adam) reporting by well regarded folks that informed us that Sanders didn’t register to vote during the Vietnam war.

    Irresponsible fool~!~

  111. 111.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The purity ponies need to be gelded, to include the FSB agent purity ponies, looking at a jackass in Brazil here.

  113. 113.

    The Moar You Know

    I fear that we’re going to get exactly the government we deserve in the 2020 elections.

    Not the one we need.

  114. 114.

    NotMax

    @raven
    21 and up was well represented in the protests where I was present. Protests to reverse and halt that “otherwise occupied” status.

  119. 119.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @John Revolta: I don’t know NYC geography and public transportation, but I’m gathering that it’s harder to get from Brooklyn to Manhattan on a Friday evening than to conduct a (peaceful) political revolution that revamps the economy and creates a would-be Nordic-style social safety net?

  120. 120.

    chopper

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: 

    i imagine the ‘menu’ of options they present to trump is literally done up like an IHOP menu where he just points to the picture of what he wants.

    “oh, i want that”

    “OKAY WE NEED ONE ROOTY TOOTY FRESH N FRUITY PEOPLE! I REPEAT, WE ARE GOING TO WAR WITH BURMA”

  121. 121.

    Fair Economist

    @Adam L Silverman:

     

    Every major revolt and rebellion in US history … was all led by and driven by elites

    I wish people paid more attention to history like this. It’s true in most other places and times too – the French Revolution was led by elites too – intellectual and business elites, not so much political ones, but elites all the same.

  122. 122.

    patrick II

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    which they viewed as the most extreme response…they didn’t think he would take it.

    I don’t know why thy thought he wouldn’t take the most extreme response. It seems they should be better judges of his character by now.
    I’m glad thy put no nuke options on the table. But the war is Young.

  123. 123.

    chopper

    @John Revolta:

    right. it is not hard at all to get from prospect park to the city on a weekend. i used to live by schumer’s place in brooklyn and did it a million bloody times.

  124. 124.

    laura

    @Adam L Silverman: aren’t Jared and Ronna Romney McDaniel hosting a re-election shin-diggy at the home of a Koch brother in the next week or so? It would seem to be either at cross purposes or covering the spread?

  125. 125.

    RobertB

    @raven: I was 11 years old at the time, but I did read Hunter Thompson’s Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail ’72 recently.  Thompson’s and the folks he interviewed’s take was that the voters who favored McGovern in the primaries felt betrayed by picking Thomas Eagleton, the party hack’s party hack, for VP.  Then to make matters worse, McGovern didn’t stand behind his pick when it was found out that Eagleton underwent shock therapy and didn’t bother to tell anyone.  It not only made him a party hack, but a gutless incompetent party hack.  Nixon just had to sit back and watch him implode.

    The whole ‘losing a war’ thing didn’t help either, and that I do remember.  Nobody in my neighborhood (I was in WV, don’t judge me) liked him, and they all thought he was a coward.  And WV was generally yellow-dog Democrat country back then.  It wasn’t until much later that I found out he was a B-24 pilot, and you had to have big brass ones to do that in WWII.

  126. 126.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @RobertB: and didn’t it turn out later that it was Eagleton who fed Bob Novak the line about “Acid, Amnesty and Abortion”? I guess I can make a google. Google says yes.

    The circular firing squad is an old pattern.

  127. 127.

    HalfAssedHomesteader

    I just want to say Thank You for curating Twitter for me so I don’t have to wade into that swamp myself.

  128. 128.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    sounds like there’s a lot of prep work going on on the No Malarkey Bus

    Cleve R. Wootson Jr.‏Verified account @CleveWootson 19m19 minutes ago
    Biden faces a questioner who brings up his foreign policy missteps. ‘That’s not to suggest that I haven’t made mistakes in my career, but I will put my record against anyone in public life on foreign policy.’ ‘By the way,’ he adds, ‘it’s a totally legitimate question.’ 

    Like an actor reading the stage directions

  129. 129.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, AlJazeera:

    Libya’s eastern-based parliament has voted unanimously against deals on security and maritime cooperation the UN-backed government in Tripoli signed with Turkey, days after Turkish legislators approved a troop deployment to chaos-wracked Libya.

    The country has been split into rival eastern and western administrations since 2014.

    The UN-recognised Government of National Accord (GNA) currently controls Tripoli in northwestern Libya, and a parallel administration holding the east of the oil-rich country, supported by renegade military commander Khalifa Haftar’s self-styled Libyan National Army (LNA).

    Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Fayez al-Sarraj, the head of GNA, signed the two controversial deals at a meeting in Istanbul in November.

    On Saturday the parliament, which backs a rival administration in eastern Libya, rejected the deals.

    The parliament also voted unanimously to cut relations with Turkey and refer al-Sarraj for prosecution on a charge of “high treason” because he sought a foreign power’s military help, the house’s spokesman Abdullah Bleihaq told dpa news agency.

    On Thursday, Turkey’s parliament passed a motion to allow a military intervention in Libya, voting in favour of a one-year mandate to deploy troops amid an escalating civil war.

    It is not yet clear if al-Sarraj’s administration will comply with the vote by Libya’s elected parliament.

    Al-Sarraj’s internationally recognised government is battling eastern forces led by Haftar.

    In April, Haftar’s LNA launched an offensive to seize Libya’s capital, Tripoli.

    Haftar’s LNA has been threatening to target Turkish nationals and businesses in Libya and Turkish ships off the country’s coast, the motion passed by Turkey’s parliament said.

    The civil war also threatens Turkey’s interests in the Mediterranean and North Africa, it added.

    Haftar’s forces are backed by Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Russia.

    On Saturday, Saudi Arabia condemned “the recent Turkish escalation in Libya” and the Turkish parliament’s approval for troops to be deployed to Libya.

    The foreign ministry said in a statement on the state news agency SPA, it considered the move a violation of United Nations Security Council decisions.

    “The kingdom affirms that this Turkish escalation poses a threat to the security and stability in Libya and a threat to Arab and regional security, as it is an interference in the internal affairs of an Arab country in flagrant violation of international principles and covenants,” it said.

    The Arab League has warned that foreign military interference in Libya will facilitate the arrival of foreign terrorist fighters into the war-torn country.

    Let’s see. The UN-backed government wants Turkey’s help against eastern rebels backed by Russia and KSA and others. Turkey has been battling KSA in various ways for a while over Syria (and KSA’s killing of Jamal Khashoggi was used quite effectively by Erdogan to damage them). Erdogan bought a bunch of Putin’s advanced weapons, which messes up NATO and the F-35 program. And he wants to beat up on the Kurds no matter what that does to the US’s interests with them and to stability in Iraq.
    Putin needs higher oil prices to have the economy recover and hope to maintain power, and wants to divide NATO and the west.

    And Donnie just threw a bunch of missiles into Iraq to piss off the Iraqis and the Iranians who have already shown that they can easily attack KSA production facilities.

    Four days in, 2020 is already shaping up to be quite interesting… :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  130. 130.

    Martin

    @patrick II: This is the problem we’re in. Iran has to respond. They can’t not respond, even though they know Trump will escalate.

    That’s what voters need to learn – who supports the US foreign policy of de-escalation and who doesn’t. Wars can de-escalate. That’s not the metric.

  131. 131.

    EmanG

    You know Schumer voted to authorize the Iraq war right? Maybe they’re just starting with the low hanging fruit…

  132. 132.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @EmanG:

    You know Schumer voted to authorize the Iraq war right?

    You know this isn’t that, right? Jesus fucking christ, I wonder if Kellyanne’s gonna figure out and explain to trump he doesn’t need Putin this time, he has Rose Twitter.

  137. 137.

    MomSense

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Since the latest actions against Iran seem to have been hastily decided, my cheery thought for the evening is that they could have resigned over something worse that is in the works.

  142. 142.

    Gravenstone

    @JPL: The news cameras aren’t nearly as thick in KY. Although that doesn’t excuse their laziness in not targeting a Trump property.

  144. 144.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Ding-dong, the witch is dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch
    Ding-dong, the wicked witch is dead
    Wake up, you sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed
    Wake up, the wicked witch is dead!
    He’s gone where the goblins go below, below, below, yo ho
    Let’s open up and sing, and ring the bells out
    Ding-dong! the merry-o sing it high, sing it low
    Let them know the wicked witch is dead
    Ding-dong, the witch is dead! Which old witch? The wicked witch
    Ding-dong, the wicked witch is dead

  150. 150.

    CaseyL

    I have already reached the point where anything Bernie, RoseTwitter, and WokeTwitter say makes me figure the opposite is the way to go.  I really really REALLY loathe those people.

    Maybe Joe Biden is the best choice.  He doesn’t have these loons flocking around him.  And he’s sharper-tongued and -witted than I thought.

  151. 151.

    cain

    I suppose that these protesters are too scared of Republicans that’s why like cowards they have to go hit the Democrats.

  153. 153.

    Another Scott

    @Bill Arnold: Thanks.

    They have, though, demonstrated the ability to cause mischief in the recent past. AP (from yesterday):

    BOSTON (AP) — Iran’s retaliation for the United States’ targeted killing of its top general is likely to include cyberattacks, security experts warned Friday. Iran’s state-backed hackers are already among the world’s most aggressive and could inject malware that triggers major disruptions to the U.S. public and private sector.

    Potential targets include manufacturing facilities, oil and gas plants and transit systems. A top U.S. cybersecurity official is warning businesses and government agencies to be extra vigilant.

    In 2012 and 2013, in response to U.S. sanctions, Iranian state-backed hackers carried out a series of disruptive denial-of-service attacks that knocked offline the websites of major U.S. banks including Bank of America as well as the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ. Two years later, they wiped servers at the Sands Casino in Las Vegas, crippling hotel and gambling operations.

    The destructive attacks on U.S. targets ebbed when Tehran reached a nuclear deal with the Obama administration in 2015. The killing early Friday in Iraq of Quds Force commander Gen. Qassam Soleimani — long after Trump scrapped the nuclear deal — completely alters the equation.

    “Our concern is essentially that things are going to go back to the way they were before the agreement,” said John Hultquist, director of intelligence analysis at the cybersecurity firm FireEye. “There are opportunities for them to cause real disruption and destruction.”

    Iran has been doing a lot of probing of critical U.S. industrial systems in recent years — trying to gain access — but has limited its destructive attacks to targets in the Middle East, experts say.

    It’s not known whether Iranian cyberagents have planted destructive payloads in U.S. infrastructure that could now be triggered.

    “It’s certainly possible,” Hultquist said. “But we haven’t actually seen it.”

    […]

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  154. 154.

    Another Scott

    Hmm…  2 attempted comments got eated, without any indications of an error.

    (sigh)

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  156. 156.

    cain

    If Iran really wanted to piss of the U.S. they should just say that they are going to hack the election for the Democrats. That will force the Republicans to take cyber security actually serious.

  158. 158.

    mad citizen

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Funny!  Not a huge fan but live in Colts country, so always nice to see the Pats lose.  Belichick continues to show what a tremendous A hole he is.  If Brady keeps playing seems like he will go elsewhere.  His coach can’t even publicly acknowledge him.

  159. 159.

    ruemara

    they fucking suck and a good portion of the reason AOC won is gentrifying idiots like these DSA/Justice Dem morons.

  160. 160.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kay: It’ll always be the No Malarkey bus in my heart

    if he wins, the plane will be No Malarkey One

    the cornerless room will be the No Malarkey Office

    that retreat up in the mountains will be Camp No Malarkey

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @EmanG: I don’t need your link to 2002, you halfwit little shit-weasel

    you know what Schumer doesn’t do? torture children and defund Medicaid

    but if you really want to make a statement about Iraq, drive down to Houston and set yourself on fire in front of George Bush’s house. I’ll buy you a bus ticket and a can of gasoline

  170. 170.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @EmanG: what does a vote on Iraq 18 years ago have to with Dump starting a war with Iran today?  This new war (which they were protesting) was started specifically by Dump tearing up the Iran nuclear deal (which everyone said was working) to please his knuckle dragging, Obama hating base and to please Sheldon Adelson.   If you want to protest someone in NYC, protest Susan Sarandon for aiding and abetting Dump’s election.

  172. 172.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: thanks– I haven’t bought the bus ticket yet

    they sold the Lazy Potemkin Ranch as soon as he didn’t need brush-clearin’ photo-ops, didn’t they?

  175. 175.

    SFAW

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    what does a vote on Iraq 18 years ago have to with Dump starting a war with Iran today?

    “You know the connection.”

    “No, I don’t. Please enlighten me”

    “Well, if you don’t know, then I’m not going to explain it to you.”

  177. 177.

    SFAW

    @Jackie:

    Poor Trump can’t invite the Patriots to the White House to celebrate this year! Baaahahahahaaa!

    He can invite whomever he wants. And I would not be surprised if he were to invite Brady and Gisele, and try to play grab-ass with her.

  180. 180.

    SFAW

    @mrmoshpotato:

    I wasn’t thinking his “art” would be in a library, but ok.

    A fair point. I was thinking that his vast collection of “See Spot Run”-type books needed matching wall hangings, but I admit it’s a bit of a stretch.

  184. 184.

    EmanG

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: I believe the initial pearl clutching was that they were protesting outside Schumer’s house, as opposed to a Trump property. Many aspersions were cast due to the lack of distance involved in their target. Are there other targets? Why, my goodness yes! Is Schumer absolved because there are other targets? I would say no. But you do you.

  186. 186.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @SFAW:

    King Arthur: Look, you stupid bastard, you’ve got no arms left!

    Black Knight: Yes I have.

    King Arthur: Look!

    Black Knight: Just a flesh wound.

  188. 188.

    EmanG

    @SFAW: You know there’s no connection, right? That is, to the actual content of the post, or my comment on it. But if you need to yell at clouds please do.

  192. 192.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    It’s the DEMOCRATS FAULT!!!!

    Anyone and everyone can fuck off right now with that false equivalency BS.

    The only way out of this madness is to elect Democrats all over the country. More Democrats, please. From purple and red states, preferably!

    How on earth is slagging Schumer for…[what was it again?] helping to stop Trump from getting us into a war with Iran?

  200. 200.

    Jay

    @Another Scott:

    some of this “shit”, doesn’t fit into “neat boxes”.

    the US is also supporting Haftar, after all, he is/was a US IC asset for decades, while also supporting the GNA.

    Russia is also supporting Haftar, with tech and PMC’s off book, while also supporting the GNA with weapons and on book support.

    at a certain point in time, it’s not dogma, but cash flow and opportunities.

  201. 201.

    Jay

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    it’s about “learning from history”,

    one of the few bills Yurtle the Turtle allowed to pass the Senate, funded:

    – the Pentagon, ( for short)

    – Kiddy Concentration KKKamps,

    – ICE roundups, amongst other War Crimes.

    yes, with out House and Senate approval for soap for the Kiddy KKKoncentration KKKamps, there would be no soap.

    But there is no soap because HLS/ICE/CBP have not yet approved boiling down the dead to make soap.

    Meanwhile, the KKKamp Guards get full pay, overtime and pensions.

    the Rose Twitter POV, along with the Plowshares Movement note that every $$$$ without massive strings attached, since WWII, ( along with other abdications of authority and responsibility) have allowed US Presidents to do, what ever the fu€k they want to do.

    The drone that killed Sulamenii(sp) and many, many, others, including innocent weddingd, was paid for with tax dollars funding the Democratic Party and the ReThugs approved.

    The ReThugs, don’t give a shit.

    theoretically, the Democratic Party does.

    So you remind, with protest, the people whom in theory, are supposed to give a shirt,

    the reality is, no matter how Americans protest, they are always doing it wrong,

    one is supposed to influence policy with money and access.

  202. 202.

    Chyron HR

    @Jay:

    If you sincerely believe the Democratic party has been chiefly responsible for every bad thing in the world for the past 50-100 years (or more?), how can you justify your psychotic temper tantrums with “DEMocrAtS thEOreTiCAlLy gIVe a ShiT?”

  203. 203.

    evodevo

    @raven: Yes.  This.  I get this crap from my career Army brother-in-law all the time (“If it wasn’t for all those protesters, we would have won Viet Nam!!11!!!”) …at the time, my husband and I WERE the dirty hippies, and so were all our friends (at least the ones who didn’t get drafted), and there is NO WAY we were anti-soldier…we wanted EVERYONE home, safe and alive from that debacle..  tees me off bigly…

  206. 206.

    Shalimar

    @Jay: You’re opposed to everything Republicans are doing, so you’re going to flog your allies for not having enough power to change things?  Beating them will make them stronger?

    That seems really stupid somehow.  The message you’re sending is that you can’t be trusted as an ally.

  211. 211.

    SFAW

    @Jinchi:

    Jesus, how long have these guys worked for Trump? Thank god they didn’t think “nuke Tehran” was a sufficiently outlandish option to sell their preferred one.

    Yeah, I was wondering about that, too. Maybe the Traitor-in-Chief felt threatened by having non-morons advising him, and decided to bring in a bunch of aspiring Cletus Spucklers, so he didn’t feel inadequate. Well, more inadequate, I guess.

  212. 212.

    TerryC

    @raven: Yep. When I returned home after three tours in Vietnam everyone was VERY nice to me and a still have a stack of notes and cards welcoming me back and for my service.

    Returning to college I found that it wa much easier than before and I got nothing but respect from the other students.

  213. 213.

    Another Scott

    @Shalimar: We’ve seen this play many, many times before.

    Anderson running as a spoiler in 1980.

    Nader running as a spoiler in 2000.

    Wilmer running far too long as a spoiler in 2016.

    Etc.

    As long as we have a two-party system in the USA, candidates who run to weaken Democrats, and people who support those spoiler candidates, enable the GOP to win close races.  They’re not pushing us toward progress, they’re putting up obstacles to progress.

    Watch their actions, don’t listen to their rhetoric.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  214. 214.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @laura: Speaking of Kushner, did anyone see this moment of shade on Project Runway?  I had no idea about Karlie’s connection to the loathsome family, though apparently she and her husband are both very liberal.

  215. 215.

    SFAW

    @Another Scott:

    They’re not pushing us toward progress,

    I thought heightening the contradictions would take care of that. And so what if millions suffer for it, before progris is made — it’s not as if anyone I know will suffer, right?

  217. 217.

    WaterGirl

    @Another Scott: We cleared the list of “words that send you directly into moderation” when we moved to the new site, and nothing has been added back in.

    So whatever WordPress didn’t like, it was at the WordPress level, not at the BJ level.

  218. 218.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @SFAW: The same can be said about Susan Sarandon.  She has her own fortune to insulate her from the pain.  Millions of us don’t have it so fuckin’ easy.

  219. 219.

    Bill Arnold

    @SFAW:

    I thought heightening the contradictions would take care of that. And so what if millions suffer for it, before progris is made — it’s not as if anyone I know will suffer, right?

    I’m a little harsher about this sort of old-school BS (enhance the contradictions), and want to see some serious urgency, and focus on real enemies.
    What matters most in the several decades is trying to avert worst-case global heating scenarios. Since Republicans are trying to destroy the globe’s ecosystems (potentially including most humans) via global heating per their party platform, those who try to get Republicans elected are genocide supporters by proxy, on a scale (potentially) hundreds of times the numerical (if not moral) size of the holocaust.

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