Lindsey Graham is a fool whose comments can’t be taken seriously, but since he’s embedded himself deep in the nether regions of Trump’s anus, we can use his blather to measure Trump’s mood, and it looks like both of them are rattled:
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey O. Graham suggested Sunday that Republicans should try to change Senate rules governing impeachment if House Speaker Nancy Pelosi continues to withhold the charges against President Trump — an unlikely 11th-hour bid to begin a trial within days without the actual documents.
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) was unequivocal in a Senate floor speech on Friday that “we can’t hold a trial without the articles; the Senate’s own rules don’t provide for that.” But Graham (R-S.C.), a close ally of Trump, floated the idea of a unilateral GOP move, saying he would work with McConnell to allow the Senate to proceed without the two charges against Trump for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
Graham, who was a House manager for Clinton’s trial, knows damn well that it’s pretty hard to have a trial without a prosecutor, but I’m sure Trump or Rudy or some other numbskull told this fool to go out and threaten this, so he dutifully did.
Sounds like withholding the documents – or even threatening to slow play them – has really gotten under Trump’s skin, so we should keep it up for a few more days. If the tables were turned and McConnell was the Speaker of the House impeaching a Democratic President the Senate wouldn’t convict, you know god damned well that he would pull out every little trick he could to get as much mileage out of impeachment. No harm, no foul if we do the same.
SFAW
I think Traitor Turtle and JAG-off Graham should start the trial, after naming Rudy Colludy as the prosecutor. Hilarity would ensue.
Where “hilarity” == “shredding of the Constitution,” of course.
Amir Khalid
I’m not quite clear on this. Does it make any sense to start a trial, even in the US Senate, without the charges? Is it the plan to formally begin the trial, and suspend it pending receipt of the articles of impeachment? I don’t see how that achieves anything for the Republican side.
Kay
I just defer to Pelosi. I think she’s earned the trust on how to do her job.
I don’t trust Schumer though- he’s been terrible in the Trump period. Just useless. He’s been effectively AWOL. I have a theory that people who came up around Trump in NY are either ineffective against him or his actual right hand men (Giuliani). The people who know him best see him least clearly. He has captured them to a certain extent. They either defer to him or work for him.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Amir Khalid:
Amir, you are obviously not a Republican member of congress.
Another Scott
RollCall:
I assume talks are going on in the background, but they sound very far apart at the moment. Graham’s proposal should be a non-starter. (groucho-roll-eyes.gif)
I agree that Nancy should continue to wait. Presumably Moscow Mitch will have to come up with something this week.
Cheers,
Scott.
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
I think part of it is Traitor Turtle trying to force Speaker Pelosi to send over the Articles without him having to commit on rules, evidence, testimony, etc.
I also assume — based on nothing other than my hatred of Moscow Mitch and Graham — that they’ll quick-gavel (or the equivalent thereof) any and all proceedings.
If only there were some group — I don’t know, maybe call it the Democrat National Committee? — that was screaming to the MSM every day about Rethugs aiding and abetting a dictatorship. Eventually (I hope), the MSM would have to cover it. And maybe it would wake up all those economically anxious voters, get them to say “WTF?” [I realize this is a naive hope.]
Betty Cracker
Agree that Pelosi’s decision to hang onto the articles has the Republicans rattled, in no small part because new evidence keeps coming to light that makes it even more obvious that Trump is guilty and that his toadies within the administration are complicit. It’s possible Trump ordered the assassination of the Iranian general in part to distract from the parade of bad headlines related to impeachment. He’s an impulsive dimwit, but he does understand how to drive the media herd.
Kay
Twitter wants Maureen Dowd to have to address her crap 2016 political analysis before she churns out more junk for 2020. Seems like a reasonable request.
mapaghimagsik
I love the fact that holding on the articles prevents a quick shutdown by the Senate and allows for more evidence to come in. It helps that the Republicans are displaying how they are not going to be an impartial jury again and again.
Richard Guhl
@Another Scott: Precedents? McConnell? Since when did Mitch the Shredder care about norms, customs or precedents?
I know, I know, you’re not saying he does. But putting his name in the same sentence with precedent really triggered my gag reflex.
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
Unpossible. I sincerely believe assassinating Soleimani prevented the Iranian Air Force from launching an all-out attack on Washington and Mar-a-Loco, using their vast arsenal of lasers, phasers, photon torpedoes, and spitballs.
Baud
@Kay:
The NYT has a rule against introspection.
germy
SFAW
@mapaghimagsik:
But Chuck Schumer is working with Speaker Pelosi, so it’s OK for the Republican Senate to circle the wagons around that pore innocent POS!
Omnes Omnibus
@Kay: Given the rules of the Senate and powers available to the Minority Leader, what should Schumer have been doing that he has not?
Richard Guhl
@mapaghimagsik: What do you call someone who aids and abets a crime after the fact?
Guilty!
SFAW
@Baud:
Not sure I agree. After all, the Mustache of Understanding (among others) is known for his navel-gazing.
Kay
The bizarre NYTimes attacks on Hillary Clinton in 2016 should make people question their coverage of the 2020 Democratic field. This is a rational response to lousy work and no one should be bullied into thinking otherwise. You’re permitted to use past performance to anticipate future performance. That’s allowed. The burden shifts to them to show they won’t repeat the bad work. It is possible to lose the benefit of the doubt. It’s not an eternal gift. It can be withdrawn.
Kay
The bizarre NYTimes attacks on Hillary Clinton in 2016 should make people question their coverage of the 2020 Democratic field. This is a rational response to lousy work and no one should be bullied into thinking otherwise. You’re permitted to use past performance to anticipate future performance. That’s allowed. The burden shifts to them to show they won’t repeat the bad work. It is possible to lose the benefit of the doubt. It’s not an eternal gift. It can be withdrawn.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
He should have gotten Cy Vance Jr. not to kill the pre-2016 Trump-related investigations.
Oh, you mean lately?
Amir Khalid
Off topic: how do I adjust colour balance on a Lenovo Thinkpad running Win 10? This new one looks a bit reddish.
germy
MattF
WaPo:
So, Graham’s proposal is completely bananapants.
Cheryl Rofer
@Amir Khalid: Verdict first! Trial afterwards!
— Red Queen, Alice in Wonderland
germy
zhena gogolia
I got a 524 when I tried to comment on the lower thread. First time since Christmas, I think.
TS (the original)
@Another Scott:
The media reporting McConnells “both sides” as if it was legitimate. Pelosi just happens to be part of Congress – McConnell has been talking this b.s. since 2008.
Nicole
Put me also in the “what is Schumer supposed to be doing that he actually has the power, as Minority Leader, to do?” I am so old I remember everyone complaining about Harry Reid for being weak when he was in the same position Schumer is, and now Harry is remembered as a tough guy because nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
For the record, I thought Harry Reid did a fine job and I thought it at the time, too, because the Minority Leader is really stuck in a thankless position. And honestly, Schumer is doing as much as can be expected. He can’t force the media to put his face on the teevee and he’s dealing with a Majority Leader whose sole interest is in maintaining single party rule for… god only knows what reasons, seeing as how he’s old and unlikely to see the effects of single-party rule by the GOP, but sure seems determined to break the country before he goes, rather than actually enjoy anything in his miserable life. I had a riding instructor who once said some horses have had their ears pinned back since the moment they dropped out of their mamas and I think that applies to some humans, too.
Amir Khalid
@Cheryl Rofer:
I used to be a court reporter. Every trial here in Malaysia (and I would presume anywhere else) begins with a reading of the charge. No charge, nothing to try.
oatler.
@Cheryl Rofer:
“We’re all mad here.”
TomatoQueen
@Amir Khalid: In my experience with Lenovo products, answers to all questions will be found by hunting in the Lenovo help pages. Lenovo likes to fiddle with things, then make elaborate notes.
Snarki, child of Loki
Oh, poor, poor widdle Lindsey is getting his panties in a twist.
I’ll work on caring about his problems when the nano-fabricator finishes making the next batch of tiny little violins.
Geoboy
@germy: Damn! That’s some harsh (though accurate) interfamiliy psychodrama!
Dorothy A. Winsor
The NYT tweeted about Castro endorsing Warren, and I made the mistake of reading the comments. Now I’m in despair about humanity.
Amir Khalid
@TomatoQueen:
Should I try taking it back to the shop?
MisterForkbeard
@Amir Khalid: They would get around this by just announcing that they already have the charges – what was voted on in the House.
Illegal, but that hasn’t stopped them before
Gin & Tonic
@Nicole:
If there is one thing that Schumer knows, it’s how to get on teevee. The guy has never seen a camera anywhere that he didn’t stand in front of.
Gin & Tonic
@Amir Khalid: I’m not sure what model you have, but Lenovo has a Pantone color calibration program available.
Nicole
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t dispute he loves being on television, but he can’t force the media to report on what he says and they just don’t care. Anything that doesn’t fit the Dems in Disarray story they aren’t interested in.
Coincidentally, we finally committed to dropping cable this weekend. I was pretty much just watching news programs, and then stopped watching after the 2016 election when it fully hit me just how bad coverage had been, and three years later, we realized we’re watching so little live TV that it’s just throwing money away. I’ll have to figure out some way to see the Kentucky Derby in May, but that’s about it.
Frankensteinbeck
@germy:
Heh. Yeah, one thing I noticed in the article is that she’s an asshole. However, she happens to be an asshole dedicated to transparency and who hates her father’s gerrymandering legacy. I’ll take a win even delivered by a twit.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Not sure why “if roles were reversed, Mitch would do it” is the best rationale to cite for this course of action.
Seems like there are many other, and more legitimate, reasons to do this.
JPL
@Nicole: I’m outside of Atlanta and my antenna works just fine.
brantl
Nancy needs to instruct her committees to continue investigating, in lieu of the Senate showing any inclination to do their duty, and she should have a press conference saying exactly that.
The Moar You Know
He would certainly never go so far as to refuse to hold confirmation hearings for a Supreme Court justice from the loyal opposition.
Far as I’m concerned, the articles can stay in Nancy’s office until the heat death of the universe.
Chyron HR
@Omnes Omnibus:
Since the alleged “left” is currently protesting Schumer for singlehandedly starting the Iraq war, you’ll probably have to wait until 2040 for them to get around to the things he’s doing wrong right now.
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
A few years ago, I would have called you a “commie.” But since this Maladministration and the Rethug Partei have become a wholly-owned subsidiary of Russia, that epithet no longer has any meaning.
On the Windows thing: sorry, I’m still running XP. Not sure if Win 10 will work with my 14.4 modem. Maybe if I use my buggy whip on it?
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
No, don’t use the buggy whip. You don’t want to use a buggy product with any tech device.
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
Thanks for that one, I wish I had thought of it. I’m still laughing.
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
You type “how do I adjust colour balance on a Lenovo Thinkpad running Win 10? ” without the quotes into Google Search.
It will say:
Obviously, there are About 2,820,000 results (0.66 seconds) so there are plenty of opinions.
Roger Moore
@Amir Khalid:
No, but the Senate Republicans don’t care about making sense. This is part of the argument about the terms of the impeachment trial. The Republicans want to have the absolute weakest trial possible, just enough so they can claim they did their job and acquitted Trump for lack of evidence. The House Democrats are withholding the impeachment documents to try to pressure the Senate Republicans into agreeing to a real trial. Now the Senate Republicans are proposing an even more farcical trial in an attempt to reverse the pressure and make the House Democrats release the impeachment papers before the rules of the trial are defined.
OzarkHillbilly
@Amir Khalid: How’s about framing hammers, sawzalls, demo saws, drills, and rotozips?
Jay
al Shabaab attack in Kenya, aftermath.
A combined US AfriCom SOF Base, Intel base and Kenyan Army base, hit by al Shabaab, the Sunni product tracing their roots back to Operation “Restore Hope”, Dolt 40, 1992.
Nicole
@JPL: That’s what I figure we’ll do. My spouse did get talked into upgrading to highest speed internet, but the increased cost is only $5 a month (technically $20, but on the higher speed deal they then waive the usual $15 rental fee on the router OH GOOD GRIEF IT’S LIKE A PUZZLE FIGURING OUT HOW THEY DO THESE THINGS) and because he took the time to chat with them online they’re sending a $150 Visa gift card, too. Woohoo!
Most recently we’ve been on Spectrum (previously Verizon, which is what we’re going back to as FIOS was much better than Spectrum’s internet), and while I thought, when we switched back to Spectrum two years ago, that I’d be happy to have the 24 hour local NY1 back on my channels, since Clear Channel had bought them I could see the right-wing creep happening to the programming since last we had it. :(
germy
Amir Khalid
@OzarkHillbilly:
I really don’t think so. But you’re welcome to try it and report any results.
MattF
@Amir Khalid: The audience that Graham and McConnell are addressing here is the Orange one in the White House. They know that ‘making sense’ is unnecessary. And, possibly, dangerous— people in cognitive decline can be unpredictable.
germy
Amir Khalid
I think I’ve figured it out on the screen tint. Thanks for the pointers.
germy
Judith Miller has thoughts to share now.
zhena gogolia
Interesting piece from Jennifer Rubin:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/06/iran-one-presidential-contender-rises-moment-another-doesnt/
OzarkHillbilly
@Amir Khalid: Well, I’ve never had to resort to anything other than the framing hammer but I can report that I get 100% satisfactory results with one. Any tech device receiving such ministrations has never dared to piss me off again.
germy
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
That punchline was actually inspired by a One Ronnie sketch.
Jay
@germy:
yeah, that’s a scary thread, it starts here:
turns out that the whole Administration including the JCS and the Pentagon are batshit crazy and filled with revenge fantasies.
Oh well, with Solaimeni dead, looks like the only bat shit crazy, “extremist” option, left on the table for the “Planners”, is nuke Iran.
cleek
They just want it to start now so it can get buried by Iran news.
zhena gogolia
Also very interesting:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/06/adam-schiff-time-open-hearings-trumps-iran-mess/
zhena gogolia
@cleek:
I think Iran is going to get added to the articles. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/06/adam-schiff-time-open-hearings-trumps-iran-mess/
germy
@Jay:
Yes, I remember seeing it yesterday and reading the whole thing in horror. Imagine if shows like Meet The Press paid attention to this?
Kay
@Omnes Omnibus:
He can be an effective advocate against Trump instead of all but disappearing for the last 3 years.
Republicans seem to use minority status effectively- they wouldn’t shut up for the entire impeachment proceeding. They were quoted endlessly. These people aren’t simply mechanics. They’re not there solely to pull levers. They’re advocates. He’s been a lousy, weak advocate. I want a better one in that role or at least he should delegate and turn that part over to a stronger senator.
He’s lucky both Warren and Harris were in the presidential race and speaking out against Trump. They made his absence less obvious.
OzarkHillbilly
@germy:
The whole thread is worth reading. Thanx.
randy khan
As of today, the enormous delay between the vote on impeachment and the trial is exactly the same as the time between Clinton’s impeachment and the beginning of his trial.
The 1998 impeachment vote was on December 19 and trial officially started on January 7. In fact, though the first day was just the introduction of the charges. They didn’t vote on the rules until January 8, and went into recess immediately after that until January 14 to allow the two sides to file briefs.
The 2019 impeachment vote was on December 18, and today is, of course, January 6.
The delay in Clinton’s case was because of negotiations between the White House and the Senate about the rules. (By the way, what’s interesting here is that Pelosi has only said she’s waiting to know the rules before naming the managers; she hasn’t actually demanded any specific rules before sending the articles over to the Senate.)
germy
@OzarkHillbilly: And already, trump is doing the “dare me to leave” thing with Iraq. Demanding payment. So the predictions in the thread are coming true. It’s terrible.
schrodingers_cat
OT:
How do you cope with the fact that people you love and look up to may be fascists or fascist enablers.
Some background: I had a fight with my mother for the first time in 25 years over fucking BJP sending masked goons to beat up students in JNU.
One girl, a student leader, she looks so young, she ended up with 15 stitches to her head. And my mother is defending the monster in the PM’s seat.
catclub
Donald the Dove, Hillary the Hawk?
yeah, right
TomatoQueen
@Amir Khalid: Second try at replying, got a 405 before. Before you go back to this shop, about which I Have Serious Doubts, the ‘lenovo’ help pages on your machine are worth investigating, so you will know what to expect: the company has its proprietary way of doing a lot of routine and non routine processes & updates which maybe you’re used to doing on your own (oh look, let’s download some drivers and mangle the whole system forever), and ‘lenovo’ would like you to not do that, please, only they’re a bit too polite to stop you. In the course of wandering among the help pages on the machine there should be a stop at hardware or display, which may be the issue, or maybe it’s some windoze settings that are acting up. Anyway do look at the help pages first.
catclub
There was one bit of interesting news in the Iraq parliament vote. It was split by sect, and the Kurds and Sunnis abstained. Not sure how both those can be true,
but it is still interesting.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: I am so sorry you are dealing with this pain of estrangement from family and the horrors of human rights abuses India. Sending healing energy.❤❤❤
schrodingers_cat
@Kathleen: Here is the photo of Ghosh who was injured in the attacks.
TomatoQueen
@TomatoQueen: or what other folks said faster and without all the gah-damned page errors I got. Often it’s something wonderfully simple.
Nicole
@Kay: But how, if the media won’t give him the platform? Here’s his Twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/SenSchumer
He’s saying all the right things there. But if the news isn’t interested in covering the Minority Leader, his words aren’t going to get out and the news is not interested in covering the Minority Leader. How, specifically, would you suggest he advocate, in ways that he can actually do, in his position as Minority Leader, that he’s not doing?
The media is very happy to cover AOC saying in another country, she and Joe Biden wouldn’t be in the same party, because that fits the narrative they want to sell. Schumer saying McConnell isn’t interested in holding a fair trial? Yawn.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat:
I really don’t know. My parents are gone (Daddy was a diehard Dem so no problem there, and although Mom was a Repub, it was of the Nelson Rockefeller variety), and the only family member I talk to is someone who introduced me to BJ, so I don’t have this problem. It’s very hard. Maybe you have to just not discuss it with her for the time being.
Ian R
@germy: Was the top Iran advisor in question Mike Pence?
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: I called her a cheerleader for a mass murderer and hung up on her. I am going to give myself some cooling off period.
Kathleen
@schrodingers_cat: Heartbreaking.
artem1s
@germy:
I’ve always postulated that the GOP’s hatred of Obama stems largely from knowing that no matter what happens, they can’t undo the fact that their children got to witness a Democrat, professional, happy, educated, family in the WH for eight years. And the bookend GOPer administrations looked liked incompetent rubes and con men in comparison. Not all of the GOP trust fund babies are going to follow in their parent’s criminal, racist footpsteps. Some of them will be downright motivated to undo the damage that was done to the country in their family’s names. Nice first step, Stephanie. Keep up the good work.
Roger Moore
@artem1s:
I think you’re overthinking it a bit. The thing that scared the Republicans the most about the Obamas is that they were Other. All the crap about birtherism, being a secret Muslim, etc. was an expression of their fear of The Other. The Obamas were going to be terrifying to them whether they were happy and successful or miserable failures. Seeing The Other in a position of power is always terrifying to them, and seeing The Other in the supreme position of power is supremely terrifying.
rikyrah
@germy:
yes yes yes
dead men DO tell tales
catclub
@artem1s: Not all of the GOP trust fund babies are going to follow in their parent’s criminal, racist footpsteps.
I read the New Yorker article. Stephanie Hofeller is kind of the opposite of a trust fund baby. Her father was ALWAYS the enemy. and the good thing she did was mostly due to luck – not any good intent.
rikyrah
@germy:
Because, of course…..
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
I don’t have an answer for you. Did you compare yourself to the young woman? That didn’t hit home for her?