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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Mutual Contempt Society (Open Thread)

Mutual Contempt Society (Open Thread)

by Betty Cracker|  January 14, 20208:50 am| 177 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Trumpery

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Did anyone see Trump’s weird performance at the Superdome prior to last night’s college football championship game? He and the Third Lady participated in the on-field ritual of compulsory jingoism just before the singing of the national anthem. It was surreal.

Fox News is crowing this morning about the “rapturous” cheering Trump received, but there were plenty of boos when he first walked out of the tunnel onto the field. The boos were so pronounced at first that for a few seconds, I hoped for a humiliating PR debacle. But the MAGA chuds in attendance quickly rallied with “USA” chants and cheers. Still, it was no Alabama, and don’t let Fox News tell you otherwise!

Melania appeared to be wearing a fancy belted garbage bag, which is appropriate to her low character and reflective of the poor choices she’s made in life. She and her odious husband lined up near the color guard and a fife and drum corps, and together, they did this odd, short little march as a giant flag was unfurled on the field.

During this whole thing, whenever the two were on the move, Trump grabbed Melania’s hand, hard. It was noticeable and strange. When they stopped, they’d immediately stop touching. It resembled the way an exasperated parent might physically manipulate a sugared-up toddler so as not to cause a scene during a funeral. Here’s an example:

Not that I have any sympathy for her, but same, Melania. Same.pic.twitter.com/7cUvrUU1nL

— Brian Tyler Cohen (@briantylercohen) January 14, 2020

Maybe Trump is getting revenge for that time Melania famously swatted his hand away on an airport tarmac. It’s obvious that they hate each other’s guts. They can’t even credibly pull off a normal couple vibe for five minutes at a massively public event, and I am ashamed to confess that I am SO here for it!

Every now and then, perhaps in response to a signal from a handler, Melania would do that bizarre simulation of a smile that always reminds me of a spider monkey briefly baring its fangs. Perhaps uniquely among women, she’s been told all her life NOT to smile, so it doesn’t come naturally.

Or maybe she’s just so goddamned miserable living with the lumpy, spray-tanned turd she married for money that she’s incapable of faking good cheer. I hope it’s that. They’re both awful people who deserve unhappiness in their personal lives, which they appear to have received in abundance. Good!

Prediction: divorce proceedings will begin the moment those two leave the White House, and some GOP fat cat will pay Melania off not to have a ghost writer produce a tell-all.

Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

177Comments

  1. 1.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 8:56 am

    I believe catty is the appropriate word for this post.

    Mrowr!

  2. 2.

    RandomMonster

    January 14, 2020 at 8:56 am

    Great writing as usual, Betty.

  3. 3.

    Jerry

    January 14, 2020 at 8:57 am

    Just quoting this because it’s worth repeating:

    Melania appeared to be wearing a fancy belted garbage bag, which is appropriate to her low character and reflective of the poor choices she’s made in life.

  4. 4.

    prufrock

    January 14, 2020 at 8:59 am

    Warning, incoming anecdata.

    I’m on a group chat with several of my cousins, who happen to be both Republican leaning and LSU homers.  I mentioned that I was changing the channel for a few minutes when Dolt 45 was on the field.

    It got several likes.  Do with that what you will.

  5. 5.

    JPL

    January 14, 2020 at 9:01 am

    Was it raining the the Dome?

  6. 6.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 9:01 am

    @prufrock: I choose to believe.

  7. 7.

    rikyrah

    January 14, 2020 at 9:05 am

    The Birther Trophy Wife deserves NOT ONE OUNCE of sympathy.

  8. 8.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    January 14, 2020 at 9:05 am

    Maybe he needed to hang onto her for balance or to know where to stand and when to stop moving.

  9. 9.

    MattF

    January 14, 2020 at 9:07 am

    It’s RBF. And, with Melania, one suspects it’s actually a whole-body phenomenon.

  10. 10.

    RandomMonster

    January 14, 2020 at 9:08 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: My thought as well…

  11. 11.

    Josie

    January 14, 2020 at 9:09 am

    It strikes me whenever I see either one of them how really miserable they seem. Makes me so happy with my own mundane, everyday existence.

  12. 12.

    RSA

    January 14, 2020 at 9:12 am

    @Jerry: Yes.

    Melania appeared to be wearing a fancy belted garbage bag, which is appropriate to her low character and reflective of the poor choices she’s made in life.

    And we see what Betty did there.

  13. 13.

    Edmund Dantes

    January 14, 2020 at 9:13 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: He does seem to be hanging onto the Podiums for dear life, even more so than usual, since his 1st phase physical at Walter Reed that he was rushed too. Cause everyone knows you don’t want to be late for a physical as it might effect the results.

  14. 14.

    Jeffro

    January 14, 2020 at 9:13 am

    I’ll admit it: I was triggered by the appearance of Mr. Innocent at last night’s game.  I may have cussed a few times in front of the wife and kids.  But then we saw Ms. Resume Gap shake off his hand not once but twice and we all laughed ourselves silly.

    Also, great job, LSU!  You made another late night of football watching well worth the effort! ;)

    3 more good games and I can go back to getting some sleep/having other interests!

  15. 15.

    Barbara

    January 14, 2020 at 9:14 am

    I suspect no divorce but separate living quarters.

  16. 16.

    psychobroad

    January 14, 2020 at 9:14 am

    The whole spectacle was so bizarre I immediately texted my husband and kids, they missed it, apparently.

  17. 17.

    cope

    January 14, 2020 at 9:16 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Did she pop a Twinkie into his mouth when they took their seats after leaving the field and call him a “good boy”?

    I didn’t watch the whole game, just checked in periodically to see how the good-old-boy coach’s team fared against the insufferable god-botherer’s team so I was happy with the result.  “Maine Cabin Masters” was running a bunch of old episodes which kept me otherwise entertained.

  18. 18.

    FelonyGovt

    January 14, 2020 at 9:17 am

    Her dress did look life a Hefty bag sitting on the sidewalk during a New York City garbage collectors strike. And Vince Vaughn (not that I ever much liked him) is dead to me.

  19. 19.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    January 14, 2020 at 9:18 am

    @cope:

    I didn’t watch so I have no data on whether she fed him a twinkie, so in this era, that means I get to say it definitely happened.

  20. 20.

    Bex

    January 14, 2020 at 9:21 am

    Why would the Third Lady wear a dress that makes her look fat?

  21. 21.

    Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)

    January 14, 2020 at 9:22 am

    “Third Lady” is the best thing I’ve seen so far this year. I can’t believe I haven’t seen it before. It’s so fitting, and seems so obvious. But you get the credit for coming up with it first.

  22. 22.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 9:23 am

    @Bex

    To make him look more svelte in comparison.

    SATSQ.

    “Does this trophy wife make me look fat?”

  23. 23.

    Alien Radio

    January 14, 2020 at 9:23 am

    Isn’t Melania Twitler’s handler? He must have one, other than Ivanka.

  24. 24.

    rachel

    January 14, 2020 at 9:26 am

    Is Melania from one of those cultures where only the simple-minded (and Americans) smile for no reason?

  25. 25.

    Betty Cracker

    January 14, 2020 at 9:26 am

    @Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): Pretty sure I read it somewhere else first! I don’t blame people for leaving marriages that don’t work and trying again in a triumph of hope over experience. My mom was a serial wife, lol! But the Trumps want all the respect and reverence accorded to that title without doing the work of setting a good example, so fuck that bullshit — Third Lady it is.

  26. 26.

    Joe Falco

    January 14, 2020 at 9:27 am

    I noticed the hand grab too when I watched it. Honestly, I was and still am too tired to give more than an eye roll at both of them trying so hard to look like a married couple. His face seemed more interested in the adulation that was thrown his way. I didn’t know the singer for the national anthem, but she dressed better than the 3rd Lady.

    So tired of having to pay attention to the walking embarrassment. Please let it be November already.

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 14, 2020 at 9:27 am

    Perhaps uniquely among women, she’s been told all her life NOT to smile, so it doesn’t come naturally.

    I suspect that was they way she grew up. My grandparents came from Slovenia and my old man and his sibs were taught to keep their emotions very close to themselves. They were much looser than my grandfather was but I could see them doing it, especially in stressful situations. I rather suspect marriage to trump is a 24/7 stress test.

  28. 28.

    SFAW

    January 14, 2020 at 9:33 am

    “Third Lady”?

    I’m (slightly) confused. Are the First and Second Ivanka and Stormy? Or Ivanka and some as-yet-unknown 15-year-old he tried to grope? Or do I have it worng

     

    ETA: I see from your comment at #25 that you (apparently) meant Ivana and Marla. But I like my version better.

  29. 29.

    Steppy

    January 14, 2020 at 9:33 am

    I confess I didn’t see that much detail. The dual middle fingers I deployed mercifully obscured most of the vile scene.

  30. 30.

    germy

    January 14, 2020 at 9:34 am

    They don’t see what we see, and we don’t see what they see.

    One more thing… Just take a look at @FLOTUS. Look at that coat. She is without question one of the most STUNNING First Ladies ever and if she was a Dem she would have literally been on the front cover of Vogue every month for 4 years.pic.twitter.com/CDMMQe99CM— Jason Howerton (@jason_howerton) January 14, 2020

  31. 31.

    germy

    January 14, 2020 at 9:36 am

    Third lady only smiles warmly for non-presidents:

    What a group – Vince Vaughn, First Lady Melania Trump, President Trump, and Rep. Scalise! pic.twitter.com/erlCrDVzQO— Students For Trump (@TrumpStudents) January 14, 2020

  32. 32.

    gvg

    January 14, 2020 at 9:37 am

    @SFAW: Third wife. He was married and divorced twice before. Cheated on all of them, etc.

  33. 33.

    MazeDancer

    January 14, 2020 at 9:38 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Trump cannot walk in a straight line by himself. It has been building for over a year, but now it is becoming obvious.  He sways from side-to-side, cannot always put one foot in front of another.

    Someone alerted that he no longer has finite motor control of his hands. Doesn’t make that circle sign with the stabby index finger so often in speeches anymore.

    Have to confess to becoming a little obsessed with all this. But once you watch for it in videos, you can’t miss it. Watch his feet in this vid.

    He’s had a stroke. Could have been a small one. But something is wrong.

  34. 34.

    Patricia Kayden

    January 14, 2020 at 9:41 am

    THREAD: Trump visits Milwaukee today after repeatedly failing Wisconsin families and farmers. From jobs to health care to his reckless trade war, it’s time to call him out on his broken promises.https://t.co/gmcUnBzRtP— Ryan Zamarripa (@ryan_zamarripa) January 14, 2020

  35. 35.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    January 14, 2020 at 9:42 am

    @MazeDancer:

    That would explain why she was there in the first place. It’s not a natural couples event.

  36. 36.

    Amir Khalid

    January 14, 2020 at 9:44 am

    I don’t think that’s a dress. I think it’s a coat. Either way, like most of her wardrobe choices it looks awful. Does Melania not have a stylist?

  37. 37.

    Wilson Heath

    January 14, 2020 at 9:45 am

    Re: not smiling, Melanoma is the cheap foreign-made knockoff handbag version of Nancy Reagan, who also looked like a hostage whenever she did her simulacrum of smiling.

  38. 38.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 9:46 am

    OT:  What are the odds this is happening? From The Week.  I will be pleased and flabbergasted if there are actually 4 or more GOP senators who demand witnesses, and we get Bolton, Mulvaney, Pompeo and OMB staffers testifying.

    Also remember. The Trump White House refused to turn over any documents requested for the investigation.

    President Trump tweeted Sunday that he would like the Senate to immediately dismiss the House’s two articles of impeachment against him, but despite Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s (R-Ky.) backing of such a plan, he doesn’t have the 51 votes to approve it when the Senate begins the impeachment trial as early as next week. Republicans have a 53-47 majority in the upper chamber. “I think our members, generally, are not interested in the motion to dismiss,” Sen. Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said after a caucus meeting Monday. “They think both sides need to be heard.” At least three Republicans have said they not only want a full trial but are also open to allowing witnesses, notably former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton.

  39. 39.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 9:48 am

    @MazeDancer: Have to confess to becoming a little obsessed with all this. But once you watch for it in videos, you can’t miss it. Watch his feet in this vid.

     

    Don’t tempt me. So far I have resisted.

  40. 40.

    cmorenc

    January 14, 2020 at 9:48 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    You should quit being so damn polite and tell us what you really think about Trump and Melania.

    :=)

  41. 41.

    Wyatt Derp

    January 14, 2020 at 9:49 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Yep

  42. 42.

    Wyatt Derp

    January 14, 2020 at 9:50 am

    @MazeDancer:

    Dementia?

  43. 43.

    MattF

    January 14, 2020 at 9:50 am

    @catclub: Pretty good odds, apparently. Romney, Collins, Murkowski, and Gardner are all fairly solidly in favor of witnesses, so they say.

  44. 44.

    narya

    January 14, 2020 at 9:51 am

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Yes, that’s exactly what it was. His balance is such that he would not have gotten through w/o that.

  45. 45.

    bystander

    January 14, 2020 at 9:55 am

    Third Lady Melania undoubtedly signed a prenup that bars her from discussing anything that involves twitler or her gravy train brakes will hit so hard, her colorist will cross the street to avoid talking to her. I am also guessing the fidelity clause is one way, so she will not be able to throw Stormy D. in his face. Keep in mind, she has a whole family of jobless lumps to support.

  46. 46.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 9:56 am

    @narya

    Lugging along a traveling escalator is not feasible.

    :)

  47. 47.

    laura

    January 14, 2020 at 9:56 am

    I kept looking away hoping it would end but it did not end – just the worst looking date night in all of America. Skankflotus in a garment made to throw rotten garbage at and her fella desperately clutching her hand every time they were on the move. His inability to keep up with the representatives of the Armed Forces was reminiscent of his walk away from Queen Elizabeth. They clearly loathe each other-and they are each unique in their loathesomness. I cannot stand to see either of them and this public display and ego massage was a reminder why.

    On the other hand, my Forever FLOTUS loves and respects her husband and he, in turn, always looks as though he is lucky to find himself in her radiant presence.

  48. 48.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 9:57 am

    @SFAW: Or Ivanka and some as-yet-unknown 15-year-old he tried to grope? Or do I have it worng

     

    There was an SNL skit where Trump was introduced to an 8 year old – who was also his next wife.

  49. 49.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 10:00 am

    @MattF: That is really good news.  Which is depressing in itself: “The good news is that instead of only a kangaroo court, there will be a relatively normal trial.”

    Lowered expectations.

  50. 50.

    Betty Cracker

    January 14, 2020 at 10:00 am

    Regarding Republicans voting to allow witnesses: Hugh Hewitt seems to serve as a dispensary of messaging trial balloons. Makes sense since his son is a Trump admin flunky and Hugh himself undeservedly holds high media perches in the MSM.

    Anyhoo, early on, Hewitt was pushing the summary dismissal line. Looks like that defense is collapsing, so now he’s saying Senate Repubs should insist on a one-for-one deal, wherein they get to call a witness for every witness the Dems call.

    I could totally see “reasonable” Republicans like Romney, Collins, et al, grasping this as a lifeboat. So what’ll happen is that if Schumer wants Bolton and Mulvaney to testify, the Republicans will insist on Joe and Hunter Biden, even though they’re irrelevant to an examination of Trump’s behavior last summer except as victims of the smear. That will be the standoff.

  51. 51.

    delk

    January 14, 2020 at 10:05 am

    She’s wrangling him.

  52. 52.

    FelonyGovt

    January 14, 2020 at 10:06 am

    @MazeDancer: Hoarse Whisperer on Twitter noticed that Trump swings the right leg around himself when he walks. And when he claps he doesn’t move his left hand, just slaps it with his right. Something is definitely off.

  53. 53.

    satby

    January 14, 2020 at 10:08 am

    Blog or John’s Twitter is going nuts.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 10:09 am

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t think the Dems would fight that trade off too much.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 10:09 am

    @satby:

    I thought both were already nuts.

  56. 56.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 10:10 am

    @catclub

    Lowered expectations.

    A memorable feature of MAD TV.

    ;)

  57. 57.

    Leto

    January 14, 2020 at 10:11 am

    Garbage the Hutt and trash bag FLOTUS capped off the perfect night of watching my Tigers lose. Houston/KC all over again. Seeing them was jarring, the entire military bullshit before the game was disgusting, and like rikyrah stared: fuck her. She went right along with it. I hope she stays married for as long as they both live.

  58. 58.

    MattF

    January 14, 2020 at 10:11 am

    @Betty Cracker: IMO, it’s possible that Romney and Murkowski would actually favor a relatively fair trial. But Collins and Gardner are looking to scrape through their coming elections. The ‘deal’ you cite would be weak sauce for that. We shall see.

    ETA: Also, taking Hewitt seriously is a category error.

  59. 59.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 14, 2020 at 10:13 am

    @satby: Did Cheryl pull her post, or is that the recurring hitch in the BJ giddy-up?

  60. 60.

    gene108

    January 14, 2020 at 10:15 am

    @germy:

    They know deep down how trashy & corrupt Trump, Melanie, & the rest are, especially when compared to Barack & Michelle

    They are trying to reassure themselves the reality staring them in the face is not actually real

  61. 61.

    Cheryl Rofer

    January 14, 2020 at 10:16 am

    @satby:  @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Traffic jam among front-pagers. The post, and one other, will reappear in a bit.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    January 14, 2020 at 10:18 am

    I don’t exempt Melanie because Melania is a birther. That’s all you need to know about her, as far as I’m concerned. She’s as mean spirited as he is. Good fit! They deserve each other.

    This isn’t complicated- they don’t get the respect usually accorded the office because they don’t earn it. The idea that “institutions” are somehow separate from the people who make up the institution is nonsense. That’s how we ended up in this mess. It’s not a fucking eternal gift, respect. The individuals have to earn it. Over and over and over. That’s WHY these things are “institutions”. The Trump’s pissed it away in about 3 months, which isn’t surprising, given that they’re chronic bankrupts. Someone who comes after them will have to earn it back. They’re freeloading off a reputation they didn’t earn.

  63. 63.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    January 14, 2020 at 10:22 am

    @Betty Cracker: Same here, sometimes you love someone but can’t live together without driving each other up the wall, sometimes you marry young and out grow each other.  It’s great if a marriage/relationship works long term but different things work for different people.  It’s the Holier than Thou mostly(though not all certainly)  Republicans and supposed Christians that bug me.  Looking at you Newt Gingrich…

  64. 64.

    Betty Cracker

    January 14, 2020 at 10:22 am

    @Baud: You think the Dems would be okay with Hunter Biden being cross-examined in the Senate? Personally, I’d be okay with it. Better to get everything on the table now, prior to choosing a nominee.

    @MattF: Hewitt really does seem to float a lot of admin trial balloons. Taking him seriously as a good faith actor is a category error made by way too many MSM outfits, including The Post.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think a couple of people were creating posts at the same time and didn’t want to step on each other, so they scheduled them at intervals rather than publishing. A rare moment of coordination!

  65. 65.

    trollhattan

    January 14, 2020 at 10:23 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Same rules apply to Newt and Gholiani, with one bonus point awarded for each cousin married. Three monsters, nine wives. That these cretins have the temerity to lecture us about morality (okay, two of them anyway) is icing on a very large turducken.

  66. 66.

    Ruckus

    January 14, 2020 at 10:24 am

    @Joe Falco:

    I’ve worked hundreds of pro sporting events over 31 yrs of hobby and full time and every person I’ve seen sing the anthem was better dressed and more respected and most of them were women about my current age out of the officials gang or a local HS. They were better dressed than the third lady in shorts and a T shirt and far more interested in being there.

  67. 67.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    January 14, 2020 at 10:24 am

    @Kay: Only person in the situation I feel sorry for is their son.  But maybe he will disconnect himself from them somewhat when he goes to college and find something to do that makes him happy.  I hope so.

  68. 68.

    Kay

    January 14, 2020 at 10:25 am

    Melania thinks saying people shouldn’t be bullied is the same as not bullying people.

    It isn’t, and any 3rd grader knows it. She is quite literally a bad example.

    To me it’s even worse than just proudly being an asshole because it assumes 3rd graders are idiots and they’re not. Guess what? If you’re a mean spirited asshole you FORFEIT the right to lecture random children on bad behavior. Why? Simple- you didn’t earn it. That asset – credibility- does not exist as to you. It can’t be borrowed or stolen.

  69. 69.

    Vhh

    January 14, 2020 at 10:25 am

    Eastern Europeans do not smile except in private with family and close friends. Smiling at strangers is a dead giveaway you’re a Yank.

  70. 70.

    trollhattan

    January 14, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Kay:

    “Vee do not knowink vere is de certificate of de birthing.” comes off better with proper lighting and eye shadow. She’s trained, you know.

  71. 71.

    Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)

    January 14, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Barbara: I’m hoping she’ll live in NYC, while he lives in Leavenworth.

  72. 72.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 10:26 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Front page posts come
    And front page post go
    Talking of the Toddler Tangelo

    (apologies to T. S. Eliot)

  73. 73.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 14, 2020 at 10:27 am

    @satby: Cheryl had a post up briefly about an article she wrote for Inkstick. What Does It Mean to Reestablish Deterrence? I guess she pulled it because she felt she was bigfooting Betty.

  74. 74.

    Kay

    January 14, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @EmbraceYourInnerCrone:

    Melania also hired their press secretary, who is both a dumb person and a person who collects a paycheck but does no part of her job. That low quality hire is her pick. A twofer- lazy and dumb as a fucking rock.

    As I said- good fit, the Trump marriage. No accident.

  75. 75.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @NotMax

    Damn FYWP randomly inserts an extra blank line just when it is most inappropriate.

  76. 76.

    trollhattan

    January 14, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Since I’ve virtually never seen the younger Biden in a public forum, how well will he handle eight continuous hours answering some version of “when did you stop beating your wife?”

  77. 77.

    trollhattan

    January 14, 2020 at 10:29 am

    @NotMax:

    Space.

     

     

    Final frontier.

     

     

    It is.

  78. 78.

    Ruckus

    January 14, 2020 at 10:30 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Isn’t calling her a lady disrespectful to all the other ladies in the world?

    Lady seems like a title for someone who actually appreciates her gender, not uses it like a job resume or fortune accessary.

  79. 79.

    JoyceH

    January 14, 2020 at 10:30 am

    @Betty Cracker: I don’t think you can get a majority of Republican Senators to vote to call the Bidens. There are fewer senators who actually believe the swill that Trump and Giuliani and Nunes have been pushing, and most of them know that testimony from the Bidens would backfire. They’re not willing to look as crazy as House Republicans look.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    January 14, 2020 at 10:32 am

    @trollhattan:

    What I especially love is the Special Melania Lower Standard. Political media practically rifled thru Michelle’s undies drawer but no one knows shit about Melania and no is even allowed to ask.

    It’s a new lower standard, just for the Trumps. Another one. How many do you set before you’re a country with incredibly low standards? Raise the fucking bar. It’s in the cellar at this point. Her entire background story is bullshit and we’re all ordered to pretend it’s not. I won’t. I refuse.

  81. 81.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 14, 2020 at 10:34 am

    @JoyceH: I suspect the “call Hunter” stuff is more an effort to give Cory Gardner, who has apparently decided to end his Senate career auditioning for his next one, an excuse to vote against witnesses because the process is “unfair”

  82. 82.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 10:34 am

    @trolattan

    FYWP’s mission: to boldly glork where no blog has glorked before.

  83. 83.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 14, 2020 at 10:35 am

    @trollhattan: “Fuck you. Next question.”

  84. 84.

    MazeDancer

    January 14, 2020 at 10:36 am

    @Wyatt Derp:

    Certainly, dementia is present. But motor control hints at stroke.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    January 14, 2020 at 10:36 am

    I know we’re forbidden to make ordinary, rational comparisons, but if you really want to see a contrast compare the deferential treatment of Melania to the fucking insane feeding frenzy Hillary Clinton inspired as First Lady.

    Any explanation for that, or is it another mystery?

  86. 86.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 14, 2020 at 10:38 am

    @MazeDancer: Dementia can effect motor control too.

  87. 87.

    Bill Arnold

    January 14, 2020 at 10:39 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    if Schumer wants Bolton and Mulvaney to testify, the Republicans will insist on Joe and Hunter Biden,

    Go for the max; perhaps Schumer should ask D.J.Trump to testify.

  88. 88.

    trollhattan

    January 14, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @Kay:

    100% true. The actual Melania backstory would be a nice project for, say, Ronan Farrow.

  89. 89.

    MattF

    January 14, 2020 at 10:41 am

    @Kay: It would be, ah, special, to see the prenuptial agreement. Also, the prefucktial agreement.

  90. 90.

    Ruckus

    January 14, 2020 at 10:42 am

    @Kay:

    But Hillary wasn’t a nude model! The highest form of female republican career.

    And Hillary has a brain and knows how to use it, that’s republican repellent.

  91. 91.

    Ruckus

    January 14, 2020 at 10:45 am

    @MazeDancer:

    But something is wrong.

    On so many levels.

    Actually on all the levels.

  92. 92.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 10:46 am

    @Ruckus

    Binders of nude Hillary pix in Ukraine. Under the server.

    //

  93. 93.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    January 14, 2020 at 10:50 am

    @Kay: Partly because President Clinton appointed her to head the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, which he pretty much campaigned on.  She was supposed to be ornamental and not involved in politics.  Apropos of nothing: If you look at the details of the Clinton 1993 Health Plan it contains most of the ideas that eventually became part of the Affordable Care Act…

  94. 94.

    MazeDancer

    January 14, 2020 at 10:50 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yes, that’s true, but the swiftness of the loss of hand gestures is possible stroke. But he definitely has dementia.

    My horribly abusive mother has dementia. For a while, it was hard to spot the difference between how the two monsters would talk. She has devolved, thankfully, to a benign state, now, and is enjoying her rosy glow.

    But combo platter plus who knows what kind of drugs and scary live blood transfusions, or worse, they give him.

    Something is wrong. Many somethings are wrong. Anyone who can bear to watch a rally knows something is deeply wrong. Doesn’t matter what it is.

    Smartly, they have never allowed any footage of him on the golf course to be released.

    But if he lasts til the fall, there will be no debates.

  95. 95.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 10:51 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I was told it didn’t matter how good my Russian was, I’d always be spotted as an American because I smile too much.

  96. 96.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 10:53 am

    @MazeDancer:

    People get upset around here when you point this out. I’m not sure why — it’s clear for all to see. You don’t need to be an MD or be in the room with him. Just watch a rally, then compare the footage to any interview with him before he was put in office.

  97. 97.

    Wgkrueger

    January 14, 2020 at 10:53 am

    Maybe we could start a FundMe to pay Melania for that tell all.

  98. 98.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 10:54 am

    @germy:

    Oh. My. God.

  99. 99.

    Jamey

    January 14, 2020 at 10:54 am

    Alternately, I think some GOP fat-cat will bankroll this enterprise to heap all of the party’s misdeeds on Trump in an effort to isolate the rot and rehabilitate its image.

    Prediction: divorce proceedings will begin the moment those two leave the White House, and some GOP fat cat will pay Melania off not to have a ghost writer produce a tell-all.

  100. 100.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 10:55 am

    @catclub:

    I worry that it’s kind of like Jeff Flake’s FBI “investigation” into Kavanaugh. A fig leaf.

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 14, 2020 at 10:56 am

    @MazeDancer:

    Anyone who can bear to watch a rally

    That would be people not named OzarkHillbilly. I avoid all videos and sound recordings of him. My loathing is such that it is all but impossible for me to watch clips of late night TV and when I do, as soon as trump comes on? I go off.

  102. 102.

    OzarkHillbilly

    January 14, 2020 at 10:57 am

    @zhena gogolia: It’s a dead give away.

  103. 103.

    NotMax

    January 14, 2020 at 10:58 am

    OT.

    Just my impression or has SiubhanDuinne been scarce ’round these parts?

  104. 104.

    charon

    January 14, 2020 at 10:59 am

    During this whole thing, whenever the two were on the move, Trump grabbed Melania’s hand, hard. It was noticeable and strange. When they stopped, they’d immediately stop touching. It resembled the way an exasperated parent might physically manipulate a sugared-up toddler so as not to cause a scene during a funeral.

    Melania is Trump’s 5′-11″ cane, he needs help with balance when walking.  The progressing dementia is affecting his sense of balance.

  105. 105.

    Betty Cracker

    January 14, 2020 at 10:59 am

    @Kay: It really is insane, the double standard, and it’s one thing that makes me think the folks who believe mainstream media outlets are consciously and directly involved in a plutocratic conspiracy to control what we see and think have a point. It can’t be all about clicks because an exposé on Melania would get traffic. The tawdry stories about Trump’s so-called “modeling agency” would even inspire the Fox crowd to click through, if only in hopes of seeing an exposed boob.

  106. 106.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 11:01 am

    @NotMax:

    I’ve seen her recently, but she does seem to be posting less.

  107. 107.

    Esme

    January 14, 2020 at 11:01 am

    @Kay: Misogyny. I recommend Kate Manne’s book, Down Girl, where she argues that misogyny largely works through punishing women who step out of the traditional gender roles (and rewarding those women who abide by them). Excellent book – made me see ordinary life in a new way. She calls misogyny the “law enforcement arm” of the patriarchy.

  108. 108.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 14, 2020 at 11:02 am

    are comments disappearing? or am I having sinus-related hallucinations ?

  109. 109.

    MisterForkbeard

    January 14, 2020 at 11:03 am

    @catclub: I’m pretty sure that if we get witnesses, it’ll be: Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Peter Strzok and Lisa Page.

    I’m only half kidding. If they do call witnesses, they’re only going to call favorable ones (and maybe Bolton, if they’re convinced he’s happy with Trump’s Iran posturing), and they’ll structure interviews so that Democrats can’t follow up on obvious lies.

    Then they’ll call the whole thing a “robust” trial, unlike what the Democrats did.

  110. 110.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 11:03 am

    @NotMax: A diplomat is someone who can convince his wife not to get that new fur coat  because it will make her look fat…. and still stay married.

  111. 111.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 14, 2020 at 11:06 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: never mind– too many open tabs and I wandered into a dead thread. Thankfully my friend Harvey pointed that out to me.

  112. 112.

    jnfr

    January 14, 2020 at 11:06 am

    @Kay:

    The difference is Democrats don’t shit on family members like Republicans do. This is a good thing.

  113. 113.

    Bill Arnold

    January 14, 2020 at 11:07 am

    @MazeDancer:
    Here’s a video, for others.
    https://twitter.com/Jeff_Nowak/status/1216894254179672064
    In this video at least, D.J.T appears to be struggling to control his right leg and foot. Right hip pain might do that (perhaps a block to block the pain?), but it looks more or other than that. (Somebody else in the house said “it looks like his foot is made out of wood.”)

  114. 114.

    Betty Cracker

    January 14, 2020 at 11:07 am

    @MisterForkbeard: Someone on Twitter suggested that Bolton might pull a Frank Pentangeli if called to testify, and I wouldn’t put it past him. He’s pretty damned evil. On the other hand, Trump humiliated him badly, and though he (Trump) greased that general, the U.S. position vis-a-vis Iran is weaker than it was to begin with, and Bolton is smart enough to know that. He’s a wild card, IMO.

  115. 115.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 11:08 am

    @Betty Cracker: You think the Dems would be okay with Hunter Biden being cross-examined in the Senate? Personally, I’d be okay with it.

     

    Hell yes I would go for that. Hunter Biden can repeat every time; 1) What law did I break? 2) I was a private citizen, what law did I break? Trump is president and took an oath.

  116. 116.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    January 14, 2020 at 11:09 am

    @Betty Cracker: David Jolly suggested this morning on the MSNBC that Bolton could throw Mulvaney and Giuliani under the bus while insisting that as far as he knew trump was only guilty of listening to corrupt advisers. Protecting his role in the RW grift/influence network by protecting The Beast.

  117. 117.

    MattF

    January 14, 2020 at 11:11 am

    @Bill Arnold: It certainly looks like he’s hanging on to Melania for support. He’s probably already fallen down a few times.

  118. 118.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 11:11 am

    @MisterForkbeard: I’m only half kidding. If they do call witnesses, they’re only going to call favorable ones (and maybe Bolton, if they’re convinced he’s happy with Trump’s Iran posturing), and they’ll structure interviews so that Democrats can’t follow up on obvious lies.

     

    Once witnesses are allowed, then it will be the prosecution and defense that call witnesses. If the Senate then unfairly permits only defense witnesses and forbids prosecution witnesses – all on live TV, that will be obvious. Hence the reason the GOP doesn’t really want ANY witnesses called.

  119. 119.

    Bill Arnold

    January 14, 2020 at 11:12 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’d always be spotted as an American because I smile too much.

    I’ve been counseled for smiling too much by Americans. That might explain some interactions with a few Eastern Europeans. (Smiles :-)

  120. 120.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 11:13 am

    @Betty Cracker: Yes, my greatest fear is wholesale perjury by any Trump admin witnesses. I can certainly see it from Mulvaney and Pompeo.  Of course Barr would lie.

  121. 121.

    patrick II

    January 14, 2020 at 11:14 am

    I don’t care about Melania that much one way or the other.  As that family goes, she seems to at least take care of her kid and make some effort to be first lady-like, but she just doesn’t know how.  And she gets no help from the Trump “sophisticates”.  Plus, making some special interest in some first lady-like program is hard.  She picked anti-internet bullying, which is of course ridiculous.  But what is she going to pick?, considering who she is married to — science education? Gun laws? tolerance?  Environmentalism?  She’s stuck, there is not much she can pick that is good and not look like a hypocrite because of her husband. And her all-white Christmas walk thru the White House was mocked by sophisticates (why is she wearing a white coat? why is everything white?  ) I think she thought it would look beautiful — all white just like after a snow storm where she was taking a stroll through the forest when the winter world looks it best.  People purposely misunderstood and mocked. I’m not saying it was a visual delight, just the best she knows.

    I’m not saying she’s a great person.  She was a not particularly well educated, high-class call girl, probably insecure in her long term outlook, no special skills, no great education, who thought she won the lottery when she married a rich American so she could stay here and live in comfort. It was a bad bet.

    I’m not saying I like her, but the misery on her face gets to me sometimes.

  122. 122.

    Frankensteinbeck

    January 14, 2020 at 11:15 am

    Kay:

    Any explanation for that, or is it another mystery?

    #MeToo revealed that the national political press was constructed and run by rapist level misogynists.  Kicking two or three of those out does not change the dynamic.  Melania knows her place (as a sex worker) and Hillary Clinton was a direct threat to the primacy of men.

  123. 123.

    Betty Cracker

    January 14, 2020 at 11:16 am

    @catclub: True, but it would showcase the upcoming “both sides are corrupt” campaign that we’ll be treated to for the next year if Biden is the nominee. Legal though it is, it looks bad, the VP’s son collecting millions of dollars for a job he obviously got because of his last name. The Obama people knew that, which is why they raised objections about the appearance. Might as well get it all on the table now. It’s coming either way.

  124. 124.

    Geeno

    January 14, 2020 at 11:17 am

    @FelonyGovt: That says stroke to me.

  125. 125.

    Another Scott

    January 14, 2020 at 11:18 am

    @MazeDancer: I think Donnie (obviously) has dementia, but it’s really hard to make remote diagnoses of these things.  My MIL had symptoms of Alzheimer’s (severe memory issues) and of Parkinson’s (jiggling thumb, feet “stuck to the floor”).  There’s a continuum of these symptoms.

    Personally, I’d be surprised if they’d be letting him do all of these rallies and “public” appearances if he had a stroke recently (though, of course, there are TIAs and the like.)

    A TIA is a brief interruption of blood flow to part of the brain, spinal cord or retina, which may cause temporary stroke-like symptoms but does not damage brain cells or cause permanent disability.

    TIAs are often an early warning sign that a person is at risk of stroke. About 1 in 3 people who has a TIA goes on to experience a subsequent stroke. The risk of stroke is especially high within 48 hours after a TIA.

    The symptoms of a TIA are similar to those of a stroke and include:

    * Numbness or muscle weakness, usually on one side of the body
    * Difficulty speaking or understanding speech
    * Dizziness or loss of balance
    * Double vision or difficulty seeing in one or both eyes

    Symptoms of TIA usually last only a few minutes but may persist for up to 24 hours. Since the immediate signs and symptoms of TIA and stroke are identical, it’s important to seek medical attention.

    So maybe the recent hospital event was related to something like that. Dunno.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  126. 126.

    MisterForkbeard

    January 14, 2020 at 11:19 am

    @trollhattan: This. All Hunter is guilty of is that he accepted a well-paying job by someone who hoped that his hiring would influence Joe Biden. That’s it – zero evidence he asked his dad for anything, zero evidence Biden interceded on Burisma’s behalf – quite the opposite actually.

    But I also don’t think he’s someone who’s trained to handle these kinds of televised high-pressure shenanigans. He’ll say something taken out of context and they’ll crow about how Trump was right to insist on this. We’ll see some well-timed ‘leaks’ from the Russian Burisma hack to back that up, etc.

  127. 127.

    Kent

    January 14, 2020 at 11:20 am

    @catclub:@Betty Cracker: Yes, my greatest fear is wholesale perjury by any Trump admin witnesses. I can certainly see it from Mulvaney and Pompeo.  Of course Barr would lie.

    Statute of limitations on perjury doesn’t run out in January 2021 when a new president is inaugurated.  These folks can afford good lawyers who will tell them that.  Even a conviction without jail time can ruin the rest of your life financially.  I’m not sure I would count on Trump issuing blanket pardons for crimes of which they have not even been investigated or indicted.  That would be an admission of guilt right there.

  128. 128.

    Amir Khalid

    January 14, 2020 at 11:21 am

    @NotMax:

    As far as I can tell, Subaru Diane’s been around as much as ever.

  129. 129.

    Kent

    January 14, 2020 at 11:23 am

    @MisterForkbeard: I’ve seen discussion that they weren’t even looking to influence Joe Biden, per se.  Just looking for big name westerners to put on their board to reduce the taint of corruption.  If you are a Ukrainian company looking to do business with the west and you have a history of corruption.  You put some big name westerners on your board to make it look like you are a more legit international western style company.  In other words, it may have just been an attempt at PR.

  130. 130.

    Mart

    January 14, 2020 at 11:25 am

    @FelonyGovt:  Vince Vaughan is a right wing asshole. Very concerned poor people are getting too much of his huge salary for his piss poor acting.

    Also too re: Melania, “…spray-tanned turd she married for money”; she also married him so she could chain migrate her parents to the USA.

  131. 131.

    MisterForkbeard

    January 14, 2020 at 11:27 am

    @catclub:

    Once witnesses are allowed, then it will be the prosecution and defense that call witnesses. If the Senate then unfairly permits only defense witnesses and forbids prosecution witnesses – all on live TV, that will be obvious. Hence the reason the GOP doesn’t really want ANY witnesses called.

     

    I don’t think they care about this. Seriously, if McConnell only allows for Republican-friendly witnesses, he’ll say they’re doing exactly what Democrats asked for and now Democrats are moving the goalposts again.

    The media will think about it for awhile and say “Democrats want more witnesses, but Republicans say they’ve already budged and done far more than the Clinton impeachment in the 90’s.”

    These guys do not care that they’re doing obviously immoral acts or even that they’re televised. They can hang together and they know through long practice that the media will back them up with the smallest fig leaf.

  132. 132.

    Kent

    January 14, 2020 at 11:28 am

    @Mart: Wait, what did I miss.  What did Vince Vaughn do?

  133. 133.

    Served

    January 14, 2020 at 11:28 am

    @Another Scott: I definitely think it was a TIA. The urgency of the visit and the timeframe of his disappearance from the public eye line up perfectly.

    My grandpa had a few of these ranging from extremely minor to almost mirroring a full stroke, and he was essentially back to normal after a few days.

  134. 134.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 11:30 am

    @Kent: These folks can afford good lawyers who will tell them that. Even a conviction without jail time can ruin the rest of your life financially.

     

    Even without pardons, I think the Right-wing welfare department would generously take care of anybody who lied for Trump. (Even if Trump won’t.)  Consider the poverty and misery of Ollie North after he committed crimes and was tried for them.

    Oh, I’m sorry, he ran for Senator and is probably taking in millions a year  as a commentator for Fox News.

  135. 135.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 11:31 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    You support Warren, and you know they’ll say she lied about her heritage to succeed professionally.  The fact that it’s false is largely irrelevant to their argument, and in some ways it’s worse because Warren did the acts herself rather than being tarred with a family member’s sins.

    The only response to all of this is to state clearly and proudly that Joe Biden (or Warren, as the case may be) did nothing wrong, and to not worry about the haters who refuse to believe.

  136. 136.

    joel hanes

    January 14, 2020 at 11:34 am

    @germy:

    she would have literally been on the front cover of Vogue

    I’ve seen Vogue cover photos.

    From my perspective, this is not a compliment.

  137. 137.

    Citizen Alan

    January 14, 2020 at 11:34 am

    @Betty Cracker:

    Legal though it is, it looks bad, the VP’s son collecting millions of dollars for a job he obviously got because of his last name.

    Was he paid “millions”? I have yet to hear from any source I consider reliable how much he was paid. I have heard it suggested that he made less from Burisma in six months than Shitgibbon paid for one night with a porn star.

    Seriously, what are the children of rich and influential people supposed to do? And by “people,” I mean Democrats because clearly no one gives a shit about the worthless spawn of Republicans. But the children of prominent Democrats can’t get jobs that make too much money (because that’s obviously a bribe to their parents) nor can they  get jobs that pay too little (because that just proves what shitty parents they had to have raised unemployable wastrels).

    By the way, The Hill has a story up about the $9 million Chelsea Clinton got from serving on the board for a company owned by Barry Diller “who is a friend of Hillary Clinton.” What are the “optics” of that like?

  138. 138.

    DCrefugee

    January 14, 2020 at 11:36 am

    I lol’d at this for a good while. Best part of my morning so far…

    He and the Third Lady

  139. 139.

    Kent

    January 14, 2020 at 11:36 am

    @MisterForkbeard: They know that the House impeachment already has Trump dead to rights.  There is really no need for any additional witnesses.  They case is already air-tight.

    The GOP really has its nuts in something of a bind.  If they try to claim that the House intelligence committee hasn’t adequately made the case because some of the evidence was 2nd hand and we haven’t heard from the primary witnesses then they paint them selves in a corner because the obvious answer is:  OK, let’s hear from the primary witnesses if they are going to contradict the House and exonerate Trump.  However the know the exact opposite is true, if they tell the truth then it is more nails in the coffin.  That’s why McConnell doesn’t want any witnesses.  He figures he has the votes to exonerate regardless of the evidence.

    As for the rules.  I don’t see how the Senate gets away with a rule change that allows defense witnesses but not prosecution witnesses.  No one would agree to that and the House managers would just walk away and raise a shitstorm.  And frankly, what the hell kind of defense witnesses are they going to call anyway?  The Bidens?  I’m not sure that plays out for them other than as a distraction and if they aren’t deposed in advance that is one hell of a risk not knowing how they are going to answer questions on live TV.

    The GOP has the votes to exonerate Trump no matter what.  But it doesn’t look like they have any way to have any sort of fair appearing trial.  The House Managers can also tie them into knots by reading into the record endless amounts of testimony from all the previous witnesses that the GOP defense won’t really be able to contradict or argue against because the easy answer is.  Fine, let’s call the witness and let them explain what they meant.

  140. 140.

    MazeDancer

    January 14, 2020 at 11:40 am

    @Another Scott:

    Yes, totally agree that Walter Reed jaunt was something.

    And, yes, should have said TIA instead of mini-stroke, or not qualifying “stroke”.

    Part of that was truth be told, I couldn’t, and still can’t, remember how to spell the I part of T IA.

    But well outlined on your part. Thanks.

  141. 141.

    MisterForkbeard

    January 14, 2020 at 11:46 am

    @Kent: Honestly, I think you’re thinking this through too much. The case against Trump IS airtight already. But there’s a lot of pretend that it isn’t.

    The trial works the same way. The “call witnesses, don’t call witnesses” conundrum you describe doesn’t really apply, because they don’t care.

    If they don’t want to call witnesses, they’ll just say (as they do now) that it was the House’s job to do the interviews and they’re sorry but the Democrats fucked it up. No witnesses. There will be some grumbling but there’s a significant amount of semi-engaged people who think the Dems should have waited on impeachment until they got their subpoenas through, and they’ll all nod sagely and move on.

    If they DO decide to call witnesses, they either limit what witnesses are called, or structure them in such a way that Democrats have a very hard time doing anything. Like… 5 minute sessions, no outside counsel, and you can’t give your time to another Senator. Then just let everyone run out the clock with platitudes.

    There, done! Witnesses and the Democrats failed to prove anything. That this will be recognized as complete bullshit by the left and some media outlets won’t matter, because some media will still buy into it and the entire conservative mediasphere will just crow about witch hunts.

    No real consequences for any of them, regardless of which path they take.

  142. 142.

    Betty Cracker

    January 14, 2020 at 11:50 am

    @Citizen Alan: The optics of that suggest to me that Chelsea Clinton has no political ambitions, and who can blame her? You can whatabout this all you want, but there’s a reason the Obama people raised objections to Hunter Biden taking the gig, and we’re seeing why right now. It’s not fair, but it’s reality.

  143. 143.

    Chris Johnson

    January 14, 2020 at 11:57 am

    I still think she’s his Kremlin minder. She’s not smiling because she’s at work, and because it’s risky: if some nutjob attacked her, it would be a nasty setback for Russia. She’s probably wearing a massive bulletproof vest, as is he.

  144. 144.

    chopper

    January 14, 2020 at 11:57 am

    Melania appeared to be wearing a fancy belted garbage bag, which is appropriate to her low character and reflective of the poor choices she’s made in life

    she is a garbage person.

  145. 145.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 11:58 am

    @Citizen Alan: The Hill has a story up about the $9 million Chelsea Clinton got from serving on the board for a company owned by Barry Diller “who is a friend of Hillary Clinton.”

     

    They could also report on the ‘job’ that Tim Russert’s son got – I also suspect millions.  But that might be rude.

  146. 146.

    Kent

    January 14, 2020 at 12:03 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:If they DO decide to call witnesses, they either limit what witnesses are called, or structure them in such a way that Democrats have a very hard time doing anything. Like… 5 minute sessions, no outside counsel, and you can’t give your time to another Senator. Then just let everyone run out the clock with platitudes.

    Impeachment doesn’t work like that.  The Senators have no role other than to sit quietly and then vote.  These are not hearings where they get 5 minutes each or whatever.  They are the jury, not participants.  They will only vote on any rule changes prior to the start.  The only ones to speak will be the House Managers and whatever defense attorneys that Trump decides to send up.  And then any witnesses they decide to call.

  147. 147.

    Kay

    January 14, 2020 at 12:07 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    I wish you could depend on Hunter just admitting he got a nepotism job and then saying that the Trumps are public employees so it’s different, but he won’t. A central part of nepotism jobs is denying that’s the reason you got one. I think his best bet would be to just say it- the Trumps will never admit it so he’ll come off as more honest. I would advise him to do so- in these situations testifying against yourself is the best of bad options. They’re going to say it. It’s best if he says it first. He’ll take the wind out of the whole hearing. Guilty as charged. Got a job based on who my dad is, like thousands of other people in their circles.

  148. 148.

    Mart

    January 14, 2020 at 12:09 pm

    @Kent:

    “Now, in a new Playboy magazine interview, Vaughn makes his libertarianism explicit, as these excerpts make clear:

    “I would use the term libertarian to describe my politics.

    “I’m a very big fan [of Ron Paul]. Ron Paul woke a lot of people up to the fact that government can’t handle everything for you. Once you start playing that game, where does it stop? I like the way it was until 1913 [when the 16th Amendment was ratified, legalizing a federal income tax], when locally you had sales taxes and property taxes. That seems ethical to me, because I can move to a different neighborhood or area if I like the services they provide.”

  149. 149.

    Melusine

    January 14, 2020 at 12:09 pm

    No one can do schadenfreude and contempt like you, Betty! ?  You are the Dorothy Parker of modern politics.

  150. 150.

    cliosfanboy

    January 14, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    @catclub: i wish we had an upvote function

  151. 151.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 12:13 pm

    @Kay:

    ABC News’ Amy Robach asked the former VP’s son in an interview published Tuesday: “If your last name wasn’t Biden, do you think you would’ve been asked to be on the board of Burisma?”

     

    “I don’t know. I don’t know. Probably not, in retrospect,” Biden, a lawyer and international consultant, answered. “But that’s — you know — I don’t think that there’s a lot of things that would have happened in my life if my last name wasn’t Biden.”

     

    Biden added: “Because my dad was Vice President of the United States. There’s literally nothing, as a young man or as a full grown adult that — my father in some way hasn’t had influence over. It does not serve either one of us.”

    Nothing he says will ever be good enough, Kay.  We are digging our own graves by allowing the GOP to control our conversation.

  152. 152.

    Kent

    January 14, 2020 at 12:16 pm

    @Mart: But of course if Vaughn is going to do an interview it would be in Playboy.

    I actually liked his character on Swingers.  Then I figured out it was actually his whole schtick and not a just a role.

  153. 153.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    January 14, 2020 at 12:19 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: They may also mention, based on nothing to do with Ukraine, his substance abuse issues. Which he probably would prefer not to have splash everywhere again, although he has been fairly open about his difficulties.  Probably partially so people could not use them as a Gotcha on his father.

  154. 154.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    They may be much more emphatic, but this is really weak tea:

    A day earlier, GOP Senators Susan Collins of Maine, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Mitt Romney of Utah said they wanted to ensure there will be an opportunity to vote on calling witnesses or other information later in the trial.

    They only want an opportunity to vote on witnesses, but are not saying they actually want to hear relevant witnesses.

  155. 155.

    SFAW

    January 14, 2020 at 12:25 pm

    @NotMax:

    Binders of nude Hillary pix in Ukraine. Under the server.

    With the candlestick?

  156. 156.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 12:26 pm

    @Kay: Got a job based on who my dad is, like thousands of other people in their circles.

     

    I would push him to say he got a job because he had useful connections to the US political scene. Kind of like how Paul Manafort got his work in Ukraine – with useful connections to the US political scene.

  157. 157.

    SFAW

    January 14, 2020 at 12:28 pm

    @catclub:

    They only want an opportunity to vote on witnesses, but are not saying they actually want to hear relevant witnesses.

    Excellent point, and it would be in keeping with Collins’s other profiles in cowardice/sycophancy. [“I stood my ground until Leader McConnell promised he would bring X to a vote!”]

  158. 158.

    charon

    January 14, 2020 at 12:32 pm

    @Bill Arnold:

     

    I have seen previous videos of him using Melania as a cane.  He is losing muscle control in his feet, thus the abnormal gait.  He is getting worse, his gait and balance issues were not as pronounced in earlier videos I have seen – dementia progresses.

     

    He will be needing a walker by November.

  159. 159.

    glory b

    January 14, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe others can chime in on this, but when has stuff like this not happened? I always assume the progeny of anyone rich and famous get their great, cushy jobs at least in part because they belong to the lucky sperm club.

    And this goes for the guy who gets the custodian position because his uncle works for the same company up to presidents, Senators ,Congressmen, etc. And how many people are qualified from the beginning and how many figure it out as they go along?

    Everyone has seen the articles that say the vast majority of people get their jobs because of who they know, not what they know. Am I the only one who assumes this?

    Hey, maybe he got the job because they wanted to show how much better they were doing. Hunter could have just as easily reported any shenanigans. I may not believe that, but if he said it, what could they say?

    Black girl cynicism? I’m guilty.

  160. 160.

    glory b

    January 14, 2020 at 12:47 pm

    @charon: I seem to remember something about him being afraid of stairs…

  161. 161.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 12:50 pm

    Betty Cracker writes,

    You think the Dems would be okay with Hunter Biden being cross-examined in the Senate? Personally, I’d be okay with it. Better to get everything on the table now, prior to choosing a nominee.

    I was unaware that Hunter Biden had declared his candidacy.

  162. 162.

    laura

    January 14, 2020 at 12:51 pm

    If anyone’s feeling the slightest bit is sympathy for the third lady, please remember that she was ALL IN as a birther. I’ll save my sympathy for the asylum seekers this administration is cruelly jailing, exploiting and killing.

    YMMV

  163. 163.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 12:52 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    The Chelsea Clinton/Hunter Biden ticket is going to be amazing.

  164. 164.

    MisterForkbeard

    January 14, 2020 at 12:52 pm

    @Baud: This is the sort of thing I’m concerned about:

    “Because my dad was Vice President of the United States. There’s literally nothing, as a young man or as a full grown adult that — my father in some way hasn’t had influence over. It does not serve either one of us.”

    Republicans: “Hunter Biden admits his father influenced his Burisma job! Trump was right!”

  165. 165.

    Kent

    January 14, 2020 at 12:53 pm

    @laura: She was also not Trump’s first wife who married him while young. Everyone on the planet knew EXACTLY who Trump was by the time they got married in 2005.  She knew what she was getting.

  166. 166.

    Baud

    January 14, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    Sure.  They will be misleading.

  167. 167.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    @NotMax:

    I’ve seen her in the last couple of days.

  168. 168.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 12:58 pm

    @patrick II:

    I’m saving my sympathy for kids in cages and species going extinct.

  169. 169.

    zhena gogolia

    January 14, 2020 at 1:00 pm

    @Mart:

    He just doesn’t want to pay tax on his vast income from being one of Hollywood’s most legendary stars. /s

  170. 170.

    grubert

    January 14, 2020 at 1:59 pm

    @Betty Cracker: thank you. For twenty years I’ve understood that media corporations are *not* just about profits.

    They *also* are conduits for their owners to influence the American people according to the owner’s beliefs about how society should be, *even* if that means slightly less profit.

  171. 171.

    catclub

    January 14, 2020 at 2:37 pm

    @charon: He will be needing a walker by November.

     

    There is a tradition at Ballon Juice of predicting Trump will not last until … May … the Convention… the general election… etc.

     

    So far all have looked pretty foolish. I did the “he will be pooped out by the general election campaign” one.

     

    Also, Franklin Roosevelt was re-elected three times and could not even walk.

  172. 172.

    artem1s

    January 14, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    the Republicans will insist on Joe and Hunter Biden,

    let em. It will be like a debate preview.  I seem to remember the GOP thinking another Benghazi hearing was going to make a Dem candidate look bad too.

  173. 173.

    Just One More Canuck

    January 14, 2020 at 2:46 pm

    @Mart: jesus, what an asshole

  174. 174.

    artem1s

    January 14, 2020 at 2:47 pm

    @Kay:

    Any explanation for that, or is it another mystery?

    Headbands and not baking cookies

  175. 175.

    Kay

    January 14, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    @artem1s:

    The headbands meant that she was conniving, creating an insincere image, as did the next hairstyle, as evidenced by the fact that she ditched the headbands. Inconsistent hairstyles. Lock er up.

    Clinton (actually) made me smile in the ’16 race because she is one of those people who does not give one shit about clothes. She wears them like “where did this come from?” I thought it was endearing. It’s pretty common, too.

  176. 176.

    Tehanu

    January 14, 2020 at 3:43 pm

    @Leto: Garbage the Hutt — brilliant! I’m adding it to my list of Nicknames for Dump right after #1 – American’s Wealthiest Hemorrhoid (h/t John Oliver) and #2 – Last Year’s Rotting Halloween Pumpkin (h/t Vicente Fox, ex-pres. of Mexico).

  177. 177.

    SWMBO

    January 14, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @NotMax: As I recall she was doing physical therapy for her broken wrist.  It may be more difficult to type after such sessions.

    Has SteveinATL been around lately?

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