Rebecca Schoenkopf at Wonkette:
What we don’t do is try to dominate. When Robyn and I argue about whether you can get to universal healthcare with a stop at a public option first, otherwise nobody’s helped during the transition ROBYN, I am trying to persuade her, not dominate her. Despite the cat suit and the whip, domination isn’t actually my thing.
If you disagree with what we write sometimes, you are allowed to tell us that. And people in the comments are allowed to disagree with each other! But please — like Joe Biden says! — don’t question our motives or each other’s. Because we don’t do “ends justify the means,” we don’t do dishonest, and we think our “motives” in what we cover are pretty fucking pure. And taking into account some drive-by trollings in the comments, you shouldn’t be nasty to each other either; we agree on the vast supermajority of issues. We don’t need to dominate each other into silence with bullying or shame.
It’s already been a long primary season. The calendar claims there’s an end in sight, but thanks to the Trump Time Distortion Field, it might take decades to get there. There’s a debate tonight, we’ll be blogging it of course, and I’m dreading it.
I have all kinds of fears lately. But not one of them, not one, is that whoever “we” (the right side) nominate will lose to Trump, barring Igor actually burrowing into the voting machines. Yes, Igor could do that! But if he does, it wouldn’t matter whom we’d nominated in the first place.
We’re all running around with our heads cut off in fear of the most unpopular president in recorded history, who already got solidly beat by a bunch of chicks in 2018. No, my fear is the lib-on-lib violence that clutches at my stomach every morning when I go online. Including, even, here.
That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t criticize other candidates. It just means try not to be shitty and mean. Don’t treat people, including the candidates they love and you don’t, with contempt. Criticism is different than dismissiveness, name-calling, and shivs. Try to better-angel yourself onto the right side of that line, and we’ll try to remember that too. Unless we all give into factionalism and let our Inner Bitter Vengeance Girls out, because it’s our way or no way, I believe we — the right side — will win. Even if that’s not my first- or second-choice person. Barring Tulsi, of course.
Be kind to each other. And to us.
There’s a lot more at the link. Read the whole thing. Open thread.
MisterForkbeard
Hear, hear.
Ultimately even Gabbard (ugh) would be a much better alternative than Trump. As someone else said here a few days ago – legislative accomplishments in the next congress are going to be close to zero due to the Senate. But EVERY Democratic candidate will do a bunch of great things on their first day in office:
No babies in cages. Working with allies. Not escalating trade wars and tensions. Relax restrictions on funding for abortion. Improve the ACA. Bring the EPA back into helping the environment, not hurting it. Put decent good regulators in place. Etc.
We’re all the same side, however much the Bernistas on facebook and elsewhere may annoy the shit out of me sometimes.
burnspbesq
Makes perfect sense to me, but alas, there are many who will see it as lack of commitment to The Cause. We all know who they are.
Baud
@MisterForkbeard:
Except for a few stragglers, almost everyone here is a yellow dog, at least for 2020.
Raven Onthill
Really nasty Windows security hole discovered. The NSA is saying “patch ASAP.”
https://media.defense.gov/2020/Jan/14/2002234275/-1/-1/0/CSA-WINDOWS-10-CRYPT-LIB-20190114.PDF
Raven Onthill
In other news, I’ve been on Twitter and, my gawrsh the things they’re saying about Warren. It’s “But her emails” cubed.
HRH mistermix, Lord Bombay Sapphire, Duke of Schweppes
@Raven Onthill: My Twitter feed was all about trusting a woman’s statement about what a man said, and also dunking on the media for always blowing up any Democratic disagreement into the biggest controversy ever experienced. It just depends on who you follow. Apparently I don’t follow some of the same people that others do.
satby
Yeah, as usual the people most at fault for the fratricide won’t pay attention at all.
But it was a good thing for me to read today because I was definitely heading into stabby town.
Betty Cracker
Cheryl Rofer
I won’t be watching the debate tonight. Got a student giving a presentation.
Raven Onthill
@HRH mistermix, Lord Bombay Sapphire, Duke of Schweppes: It was the responses to one of those comments that got me. OMG.
OzarkHillbilly
I just saw this and feel the need to pass it on in case nobody else has yet: FEMA Spent a Ton Fighting California’s Fires. Now It Wants Victims to Pay It Back.
Kent
That’s pretty much all true.
Line up all the 5 major candidates that probably have some sort of track to the nomination (Biden, Sanders, Buttigieg, Warren, Klobuchar) and their administrations are going to look reasonably similar.
Sanders I would expect to bring in more true-believer outsiders for important positions in his administration and cabinet. But I wouldn’t expect them to be more effective. I would expect his administration to focus most on inequality, so taxes, treasury, housing, etc. My fear is that he would elevate too many true believer outsiders to positions of power where they will be ineffective lightning rods. The flip side to all of Trumps horrible cabinet picks who created more news stories than got things done.
Biden and Klobuchar are more likely to stock up their administrations with competent professional Democrats from the usual ranks including lots of Clinton and Obama types. I see them both as 3rd term Obama in style and emphasis and bringing back a lot of the Obama era folks.
Warren is likely to draw more really bright people from academia, especially for health and science agencies. Her focus is likely to be corruption, consumer protection, and inequality like Sanders, but with a more technocratic approach. Finding hundreds of little ways to make differences. Probably a lot more aggressive about chipping away at loopholes in tax regulations. I expect Warren would be the most effective at weaponizing the regulatory state to action as that is her style.
Buttigieg is more likely to bring in young techie and consulting types from the corporate world. But I expect his style and thrust would also mostly be 3rd term Obama like Biden and Klobuchar, but with a different style and flair. But also more susceptible to techbro solutions like Charter schools and standardized testing-based merit pay and school ratings which is worrisome.
As for the big issues that divide the party such as health care, immigration, taxes, etc. I don’t expect any differences as that is all legislation that is not happening. M4A is pointless to argue about as is a new wealth tax or something like a massive new carbon tax. They will all likely pursue the same policies to shore up the ACA and bring back DACA, implementing climate change actions through emissions controls, re-joining the Paris accords, and so forth.
laura
I cannot see any benefit of the debates to date. None. Bullshit and wasted resources. Candidates have dropped out before a single vote has been cast in the primaries. Two billionaire tone deaf bags-o-douche still running “dont touch My Stuff” vanity campaigns and lots of really good people out well before they had any chance with the electorate. Not to mention the panels of awfulness disguised as important personages. Damn right I’m stabby.
This endless campaign industry has been hell on democracy and we are poorly served by it. Harumph!
TS (the original)
@OzarkHillbilly: But of course, if your state didn’t vote for trump. this is what you get.
Those who vote GOP will never understand the good they get under a democratic President. GOP Governor Christie got MASSIVE help under President Obama, despite the best efforts of the GOP in congress at that time.
Dan B
In LGBT news the Supremes are considering rehearing the WA anti-gay wedding florist case. Somebody’s itching to put the LGBT back in the dark.
PJ
@Kent: With regard to legislation, one consideration is whether any of the candidates would have a bigger impact in getting downticket Democrats elected, and, of course, most importantly in Senate elections.
HRH mistermix, Lord Bombay Sapphire, Duke of Schweppes
I gave up weekday drinking (probably won’t last, but whatever) so I won’t be watching the debates tonight. I’ll read a couple of recaps and go to a diner full of swing voters for lunch tomorrow so I can find out how they really went.
Kent
@PJ: Yes, coattails are a big deal. But since none of the 5 are quite the “hope and change” inspirational forces of nature that Obama was, I have a hard time judging. Sanders will inspire the AOC lefty types but they are already concentrated in safe seats. I don’t see him bringing in new victories in red districts. He is more likely to expand the margin in places like Seattle from 79% Dem to 84% Dem or some such. I don’t know who is most likely to coattail flips in red and purple areas. Which honestly is what we are talking about here. Honestly maybe something like a Biden/Klobuchar ticket for winning Senate seats in red states. If it is even possible for the top of the ticket to have that effect. Candidates like Doug Jones may actually want to run more independently of any national candidates, which is fine and their choice.
NotMax
FYI, it is scheduled to begin at 9 P.M. Eastern time..
trollhattan
@laura:
It’s the WHCD without cocktails and jokes. I find little value in them but the kiddo is watching, I think because it’s the first election that presents itself as having dire consequences, plus being a first-time voter.
Another Scott
+1 @CommieGirl1 is very good. Especially as she continues to call out FB for blocking their stuff.
Other Democrats aren’t the enemy. FB and the Teabaggers are the enemy.
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
Kent
I watch the debates with my “woke” 16 year old LGBT daughter. She sees stuff I don’t see and vice versa. She is on twitter on her phone at the same time so getting a different perspective. While I’m on my iPad flipping between BJ and TPM comments. Gives us something to talk about.
Betty Cracker
I wish I had Schoenkopf’s faith that any Dem nominated can beat Trump. I oscillate on that question like a goddamned fan. Some days, I feel confident he’ll lose because even MAGA relatives seem embarrassed by Trump’s erratic antics and exhausted by the constant drama. But then I read letters to the editor in the local rag in this 70% Trump county, and my gawd, such stupid!
The truth is, we don’t just need to win the election handily; we need a cleansing fucking electoral FIRE that decimates the Republican Party. And due to polarization, that is unlikely.
Brachiator
@laura:
Can’t really dispute any of your points!
Cacti
The only Democratic candidate who I suspect of bad faith motives is the non-Democrat
ETA: The only REMAINING Democratic candidate.
dmsilev
@NotMax:
Apple News? That’s …different. I thought AN was just an aggregation service for a whole bunch of regular media outlets. Also, I’ll take “15” in the “how many trite Steve-Jobs-era Apple jokes will be made” pool. That’s during the debate itself, of course.
laura
@Brachiator: https://youtu.be/Yt3GBlVjUd0
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
The accumulation of Trump’s misbehavior might doom him, but the relative strength of the economy, low unemployment and his tax cuts, might give him a slight edge.
The Democrats, perhaps, have more of an eye on the future of the country. Trump is all about fables of the past and the promise that he can stop progress by an angry act of will.
Matt McIrvin
This is not true and it worries me when people say it. His unpopularity is unusually consistent. But he’s far more popular than Carter, Nixon and Bush II in the endgame, or even Clinton and Reagan during their first-term low points.
NotMax
@dmsilev
It’s a whole new landscape. Which studio received the most nominations for an Oscar this year? Netflix.
Kent
I have no faith about anything. I think it is going to be the biggest barnburner of our lifetimes with the volume of fake news, Russian interference, voter suppression, and everything else reaching such a fever pitch that 2016 looks like a PTA election. It will be the last gasp of the alliance between evangelical white supremacy and corrupt right wing billionaire Koch money and they won’t go down without a fight.
I do think it is a winnable election but it will take immense and relentless effort by good people everywhere. And I will fucking scream if Dems start taking victory laps like Clinton did to California in the last days of 2016 election.
Also remember it is winner take all. Trump took over the entire Federal government from top to bottom and implemented his will everywhere with no regard whatsoever to doing any conciliation or negotiation or compromise with “stakeholders” and such. Dems need to be equally ruthless. A one-vote electoral college margin grants the same executive power as a 300 vote margin. Take the power and fucking USE it from day one.
chopper
if i can’t call people who disagree with me trolls and fascists i don’t want to be part of your revolution.
chopper
the closer we get to the wingnut event horizon the more time slows down.
Matt McIrvin
@Brachiator: I think Trump has a huge edge and will be nearly impossible to beat. We can crush him in the popular vote, but is there any state that went for him in 2016 that is going to flip? If we don’t win Ohio or Florida (and I don’t think we will) we need to sweep almost all the other swing states, and it’s a tough ask.
schrodingers_cat
OT Apparently Orange Concealer is planning an India trip. Is it just a rumor or is this for real?
Omnes Omnibus
@Matt McIrvin: Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: BS won’t win against T he will throw the election to T like the good Russian asset he is.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
He’s unpopular in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, and NC elected a Demo governor.
ETA: Iowa has been swinging back to blue too.
yellowdog
@Baud: Well, I certainly am.
Baud
@yellowdog: Nice.
schrodingers_cat
@Matt McIrvin: I disagree with your analysis, 2018 and special elections show that his popularity has decreased since 2016 even in those states he carried and is waning.
H.E.Wolf
I’m spending time and energy working toward Democratic legislator victories in 2020: from US Senators all the way to state reps.
Whenever my spirits need a boost, I take a look at the EMILY’s List Twitter feed, after which I feel much more optimistic about the future of our country.
The Presidential race will be what it will be. The real excitement for me, at this moment in time, is in adding Democrats to the legislative branch of government
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: What is a yellow dog? I am a tabby cat.
Brachiator
@Matt McIrvin:
Don’t know. The primaries and post-primary polling may give us an idea of whether there is sufficient anger and disillusion with Trump.
James E Powell
@Kent:
You left out the NYT running a constant stream of baseless accusations against the Democratic nominee and the entire world of cable news following along.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_dog_Democrat
piratedan
@Betty Cracker:
I look at the following to restore faith:
a) look at the elections that we’ve had in the interim – pretty good Dem results overall
b) Trump has been impeached
c) he shivved the kurds, the ukrainians and NATO
d) he’s pardoned war criminals
e) he’s continued to be a lying sack of shit about EVERYTHING
f) other heinous shit (political shoes) has still yet to drop into the public eye, i.e. his tax returns, all of the loose ends from Mueller, plus all of these additional foreign policy debacles
g) he’s tied at the hip to Mitch McConnell, who everybody loathes
h) I don’t bother looking at the polling, I still see people protesting and demonstrating about all of the evil shit that is going on and realize that if he’s pissed off THIS many complacent Americans to get off their asses and raise hell, I can increase that amount by about a 100 fold who are seething behind their keyboards but have bills to pay else they would be out there too.
just saying
yellowdog
@Baud: Baud noticed me! I am verklempt.
dmsilev
@schrodingers_cat: Someone who will vote for a Democrat, no matter what.
Wikipedia: “Yellow Dog Democrats was a political term applied to voters in the Southern United States who voted solely for candidates who represented the Democratic Party. The term originated in the late 19th century. These voters would allegedly “vote for a yellow dog before they would vote for any Republican”. The term is now more generally applied to refer to any Democrat who will vote a straight party ticket under any circumstances.”
zhena gogolia
@Betty Cracker:
That tweet somebody posted in your thread about how elegant FLOTUS is really shook me. How can they think that? It’s just an alternative reality. I made the mistake of clicking on it and seeing the replies. There were a lot of Hefty bag jokes, but there was also a lot of “They’ve restored class to the White House.”
Kent
@James E Powell: Yeah. Well my MAGA Trump relatives in Michigan don’t read the NYT but they do spend a lot of time on Facebook and listen to a lot of Rush Limbaugh and “Christian” media.
H.E.Wolf
@Matt McIrvin:If we don’t win Ohio or Florida (and I don’t think we will)
***** I can’t get the Quote box to work today *****(at all)*****
Oh, I think it’s quite possible we’ll swing Florida, if we pitch in and do the work to get voters to the polls.
There’s a huge Democratic GOTV effort underway in FL; a re-enfranchisement of large numbers of ex-prisoners who’ve served their time; and a largely under-reported groundswell of very motivated voters. (I wouldn’t write off the FL teens and adults who have become politically active because of gun violence.)
gene108
@Kent:
My fear with Sanders is not his brand of outsiders, but the fact he did piss off a lot of rank and file Democrats in 2016.
He can’t fully staff the White House, and all Cabinet departments, with his brand of outsiders. There aren’t enough of them.
Will he make peace with qualified Democrats for positions like Assistant Under Secretary of Transportation, Treasury, State, Labor, etc., if they were critical of him?
The early reason Trump couldn’t fill out these positions is he refused to appoint anyone, who was ever critical of him.
I hope Sanders can put his ego aside, and make peace, but I am not confident
?BillinGlendaleCA
@yellowdog: You’ll get over it.
zhena gogolia
@piratedan:
Good comment.
Baud
@yellowdog:
https://youtu.be/xffOCZYX6F8
Kent
@zhena gogolia: It’s just pure racism. Thinking that any of the Trumps are classy while the Obamas were not is the American version of the Brit Tabloid coverage of Meghan Markle.
Racists are going to do their thing. It is as predictable as clockwork.
zhena gogolia
@yellowdog:
It’s quite an experience, isn’t it?
??
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
Yep.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I wuz kidding.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
अच्छा
joel hanes
@zhena gogolia:
How can they think that?
Melania’s skin is less darkly pigmented than Michelle Obama’s.
Kent
@gene108: He doesn’t have to fill out the entire government with his collection of non-Democrat outsiders. Just a few key appointments in key agencies could create a shit-storm and the media will be gathered around waiting for them all to make the slightest mis-step Which they will do in spades. Like the Van Jones mini-scandal in the early Obama administration. And then we will be off chasing the next Sanders “scandal” instead of actually getting shit done.
That was the key to Obama’s effectiveness. He ran the most scandal-free administration in history. They had nothing on him so they had to make shit up like Benghazi and Solyndra. They will, of course, do the same to Sanders and any other Dem administration. I’m just fearful the Sanders bunch of amateurs will give them a lot more ammo.
Betty Cracker
@Brachiator: True, and well said.
@piratedan: All great points, thanks!
Emma from FL
(Had a partially completed post disappear on me, so if it appears, mods please delete). I am really good at considering diverse points of view, but the presentation counts. When we get one of the let-me-gift-you-with-my-superior-understanding lectures, I grow fangs. I need to develop a thicker skin.
JoeyJoeJoe
@Baud: Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina, and Texas to an extent also showed movement towards Democrats in 2018 as well. All, maybe even Texas (though that one’s unlikely) could flip too.
debbie
You’d think, remembering back to the considerable resistance to the ACA, people would realize that extreme, sudden change might not be welcomed.
randy khan
@Betty Cracker:
My working theory for the campaign is that I think that, with a few exceptions, the name of the Dem candidate is unlikely to have much effect on the general election. (I worry a bit about Sanders, and I would worry a lot about Gabbard if I thought she had a snowball’s chance.) To a large extent, the election is going to be about Trump, not the Dem. We’re stuck with that, for better or worse. In 2016, it was for worse, but in 2018 it was for better.
The big differences between 2016 and 2018 were that more people realized what a disaster Trump is and that a lot more people committed to working to elect Dems. We can’t do too much about the first point, but collectively we can do something about the second one. My plan is to work on that, and I think it will make me feel better as well as increasing the chance for a Dem win.
Kent
@JoeyJoeJoe: If any Democrat’s path to the White House has to run through Texas, then we are truly Fucked. I say this as a former Texan. People get old and die waiting for Texas to turn blue. A state that Ted fucking Cruz can beat one of the most charismatic young Democrats in a generation is not turning blue that fast. Even Republicans in Texas don’t like Ted Cruz.
debbie
@OzarkHillbilly:
Where does FEMA think think their funding comes from? ??
debbie
@Brachiator:
He inherited the economy and employment rate; the tax cuts have not benefited the majority of Americans.
Hopefully, this will be emphasized throughout the campaign.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: आपकी हिंदी बहुत बढ़िया है
TS (the original)
@zhena gogolia: Their definition of class is white
burnspbesq
@OzarkHillbilly:
i expect the Bankruptcy Court will fuck FEMA good and proper. We’ll see what the Ninth Circuit has to say about it.
Martin
@Raven Onthill: Shorter NSA:
We’ve gotten as much espionage out of this zero day, it’s now in the wild, don’t be a victim (unless we previously wanted you to be).
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
You mean Rebecca doesn’t wag her finger and scream at people.
Yutsano
@H.E.Wolf: I heard a video about that the other day. It was just a talking head who happens to be a native of Florida but he was almost giddy about how there was a massive loophole in the law the Republicans put up that allowed the four largest counties in Florida to skirt the fine requirement. It was almost ingenious. I think a Democrat must have snuck that little nugget into the law.
JoeyJoeJoe
@Kent: it definitely wouldn’t depend on Texas, but if a Democratic victory was big enough maybe it would happen, kind of like how Obama won Indiana in 2008. Numerous states would flip first, for sure
Betty Cracker
@randy khan: Exactly right.
Brachiator
@debbie:
Presidents get praised or blamed for the economy in place during their term, whether or not they were responsible for it. So Trump gets credit for this and can rightfully run on it.
In fact, I think that if Trump had relented on his stupid tariff war, and a couple of other areas, I think that he might have been unbeatable with respect to the economy.
mrmoshpotato
@Raven Onthill: Thanks Onthill.
mrmoshpotato
@Raven Onthill: Ugh.
danielx
Whichever Dem gets the nomination, I will work for and vote for – though I’ll have to swallow hard if it’s Bernie because he irritates me beyond words. I want the best (IMHO) candidate, but…
Repeat after me:
The orange crested shitbird has to be knocked off his gilded perch.
satby
@James E Powell: seems like a good time to share this excellent article, I hope everyone reads it (naked link to show title, it’s that important): https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/russia-troll-2020-election-interference-twitter-916482/
satby
@zhena gogolia: every time a magat says something about how classy the third lady is, I respond with the naked Melanie soft core porn photos. Usually shuts them up.
satby
??? yeah, I’m pretty confident he won’t.
Kent
He could have rammed through some big infrastructure bill and did like Obama with putting up Trump signs all over every bridge and freeway project in the country and avoided the trade war and he would have been hellaciously tough to beat.
EmanG
@Kent: Damn dude, well put! Thx.
Brachiator
@Kent:
Infrastructure is important, but I doubt that many voters give a shit.
MisterForkbeard
@zhena gogolia: Honestly, it’s because Melania is a fairly pretty white woman. That’s it.
Her taste is super weird, as is Ivanka’s. Not avante-garde, just weird. But she’s “pretty” and white, so they’re in love with her. It’s the same sort of thing we saw with Sarah Palin.
BruceFromOhio
If I’d a pie’d your front-paging click-bait ass like I wanted to the other day, I would’ve missed this.
Good read, thanks for sharing!
Right fucking back at you =)