Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Not all heroes wear capes.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Election Year Open Thread: BIDEN 2020 – You’ll Come Around, Folks!

Election Year Open Thread: BIDEN 2020 – You’ll Come Around, Folks!

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One way we can tell most voters haven’t been paying as much attention as we have over the last many months: This is still a new idea to a lot of people…

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317Comments

  1. 1.

    trollhattan

    Kind of does have the bouquet of inevitability, but I’ll wait for Iowa and NH et al before I’m willing to put a stamp on it. Al Gore had that same bouquet and we all know how that played out.

    He seems to have stanched the gaffs to some extent. That’s good.

  4. 4.

    japa21

    People that think that Biden is not progressive should also remember that he basically forced Obama into coming out for same-sex marriage by publicly supporting it.

     

    Biden has become my number one choice. I actually believe he represents the best opportunity for a progressive agenda being passed in the future.

  5. 5.

    David Hunt

    If Biden gets the nod, I’ll fall in behind him, but I seriously hope that I don’t have to.

  6. 6.

    clay

    @oatler.: Joe “Violence Against Women Act” Biden.

    Joe “assault weapons ban” Biden.

    Joe “for gay marriage before Obama was” Biden.

  8. 8.

    JDM

    <blockquote>This is why I hate the “he doesn’t excite people” line. Good. I’ve seen what you people look like when you’re “excited” and I’d give anything to make it stop.</blockquote>

    I can see this attitude.

  10. 10.

    sdhays

    @trollhattan: Gore basically coasted to the nomination. And without the banana-republic shenanigans in Florida, he would have been President. Hopefully Joe, if nominated, doesn’t let it get that close.

    One thing that I keep wondering about the general election is how many less-engaged people will be very happy to vote for Biden just to get “the President” out of the hourly news cycle. Dump is such a media whore, and so pathetically needy, that everything is always about him. You have to work at ignoring him, which defeats the whole purpose of trying to be disengaged.

    There was “Clinton fatigue” in 2000 (although that was mostly concentrated in the media and Republican Party); I wonder if there’s an actual “Dump fatigue” among people who might otherwise just vote for the incumbent.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    don’t underrate how many voters want to go back to the age when politicians didn’t have an army of online psychos ready to die for their leader on command.

    That does not bode well for me.

  14. 14.

    germy

    Any Kiko’s House readers here?

    Shaun D. Mullen, 72, a blogger and author whose journalism career included two decades at the Philadelphia Daily News, was found dead Thursday, Dec. 12, at his home in East Stroudsburg, Pa. He died of natural causes, relatives said.

    Mr. Mullen covered the Vietnam War, the O.J. Simpson trials, the Clinton impeachment, and 12 presidential campaigns including posts on his politics blog, Kiko’s House.

    His last article (written the day before he died) was about Barr:

    http://kikoshouse.blogspot.com/2019/12/barr-keeps-covering-for-trumps-crimes.html

  15. 15.

    MattF

    I was for Harris, but I’d be happy with Biden– and I suspect he’ll get the Harris fans. It looks like he’s getting and accepting good advice, which is either good staffing or learning from experience. Either one is fine with me.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    I have never quite understood the theory that candidates who lose the primary will excite more voters than candidates who wim the primary.

  18. 18.

    Mnemosyne

    Crazy Uncle Joe was not my first, or second, or third, or even fourth choice, but if any “leftist” assholes come at him with the kind of half-true divisive bullshit that they used against Hillary in 2016, I swear to Christ that I will rip off their heads and shit down their necks.

    Guaranteed.

  21. 21.

    Mnemosyne

    @Baud:

    The theory is that there is a group of voters who won’t normally vote for a Democrat but would be so excited by a certain independent’s campaign that they would break their own rule for him.

    This seems to work about as well as any plan that depends on voters acting sensibly and in the best interest of the country as a whole, but the people who believe it REALLY believe it.

  23. 23.

    Baud

    I wonder I’d be more upset about Biden’s lead if I weren’t so upset about Bernie doing as well as he is.

  25. 25.

    Kent

    Thought experiment.  What would this race look like without Biden?   He was the last major candidate to come in and the one who seemed most ambivalent.  I have a really hard time gaming that out.

    I think Harris might still be around and Klobuchar might be gaining more traction.  But from reports, Harris’ problems were at least party self-inflicted.   I’m not sure where Sanders would be without Biden.  I think Biden’s presence probably hurt Warren more than Sanders.   The REAL question is where would the large numbers of Black voters in the South and Hispanic voters in the Southwest have gone without Biden.  That’s really tough to say.

  26. 26.

    Yutsano

    He’s (so far) the choice of the backbone of the Democratic party. And I don’t see anyone dislodging him from that position any time soon. He can afford to be middling in Iowa and New Hampshire. Once this goes through South Carolina, Nevada, and Super Tuesday Unca Joe is gonna have him a commanding lead. At that point other candidates will start dropping, and his nomination gets clearer.

    But wait until Barack starts campaigning for him. HOO BOY…

  29. 29.

    Major Major Major Major

    Of the pile of candidates (including Trump), Biden is the one most likely to be elected President this year. Which is… fine, idk.

    I’m still in mourning over Harris. If Joe selected her as VP it would raise my chances of voting for him.

    lol, why should I pay attention to somebody who says this? What Harris supporter is on the fence about voting for Biden in the general?

  31. 31.

    Baud

    @Mnemosyne:

    Right, but why would someone who didn’t inspire enough Democratic voters to win inspire independents to that degree.

    I guess the assumption is that there are a lot of “both siders” who will always prefer the least “partisan” candidate.

  32. 32.

    PJ

    @schrodingers_cat: There are a lot of Twitter “journalists”/”activists” who think Biden is either a joke or their worst nightmare, and they also think the Democratic Party is hopelessly corrupt and inept and that, if it can’t be Bernie, Trump will do.  They believe that if the Democrats nominate Bernie, the sheer enthusiasm of his relatively small group of followers will ignite a blissful revolution that will sweep the country.  For them, Obama was a terrible President, and Trump was only possible because of Obama’s failures.

     

    My opinion is that most Americans liked or loved Obama and his policies, and they see Biden as a continuation of that  – incremental change in the right direction with no drama.  He’s not my first choice, but if he’s the nominee, he’d be fine.

  33. 33.

    Yutsano

    @Mnemosyne: Secondeded! Hell I WANT the Senate to call him into the impeachment trial now. Let Unca Joe have some free (if limited) advertising.

  35. 35.

    Ohio Mom

    I’m okay with Biden, and if he scares Trump and the rest of the Republicans, that’s icing on the cake.

  37. 37.

    lumpy

    “A Democrat who won’t shake things up” is a big reason the party was unable to crush Trump in 2016, one of the least qualified candidates imaginable.

    “Aim low” is a losing strategy. We can do a whole lot better than Biden.

  39. 39.

    dmsilev

    So, 538 has their primary tracker up and running, since (thank God) the voting is almost ready to start. Right now, Biden has about a 40% chance of winning the nom, followed by Sanders, a brokered convention, Warren, and Buttigieg. Everyone else put together is <1%. I wouldn't say he's a sure thing, but he is most definitely the front-runner.

  40. 40.

    hueyplong

    A possibly unintended consequence of how Trump has played the Biden candidacy is that every time I see a post here reminding us of some awkward prior quote from Biden, and the poster isn’t a recognized regular, I assume it’s a troll or a bot.  I’m conditioned not to believe negative things about him as a reflexive pushback against Trumpsters.

    I’m a Harris guy but I’m already at the point at which I’d shrug my shoulders and then crawl over glass to vote for Joe over Trump.

  43. 43.

    clay

    @Major Major Major Major: Yes. Joe picking Harris as Veep is a great idea. I’d love it. But it would have zero effect on me voting for him, because I am 100% going to enthusiastically vote for him in November.  As should any person with even the slightest bit of sense.

  44. 44.

    Keith P

    Biden is so much better a possibility than my lowest bar (Bloomberg) that I have absolutely zero problem with the idea of having a President Joe, unless he picks some #NeverTrump GOP veep, but it’s obvious that he’d pick Kamala Harris.

  45. 45.

    MomSense

    @Kent:

    Bernie and Gabbard, their supporters and operatives, with the help of Russia, took out Harris with the ADOS bullshit and the bogus Kamala is a cop stuff. None of the other candidates had her back and the media erased her.

  46. 46.

    chopper

    @japa21:

    well, TBH i’d rather have biden and a democratic senate than warren with mcturtle shutting every goddamn thing down, i’ll tell you that much.

    question is, who’s gonna have democratic coattails? (the answer is ‘i dunno quite yet, but def not fucking bernie’)

  48. 48.

    dmsilev

    @lumpy: Hillary Clinton lost because she was slammed by three decades of right-wing propaganda plus was attacked by the intelligence services of both Russia and the US.

  49. 49.

    Eljai

    I can get excited about any Democratic president who will staff his or her administration with qualified people and sign any law that a Democratic congress passes.  I will dance for joy when we keep the House, take back the Senate and kick Mitch McConnell to the curb.  And after I’m done dancing for joy, I’m going to hound my elected officials until they kill the filibuster, expand the Court and do something about guns and climate disaster.  I hope that people like David Dayen will take time off from his busy schedule of bitching about Obama to join me.  We have a narrow window of time to turn things around.  Let’s do this!

  50. 50.

    Percysowner

    I’m still a Warren supporter, but I can easily live with Biden. Definitely I’d pick Biden over Bernie.

  51. 51.

    trollhattan

    @Kent:

    Onion Joe was Be Best Biden, and I followed his hijinks with relish. Melarkey, what melarkey? Obama was always settling him down.

    Onion Joe live-tweeted the Biden-Ryan debate and when it was over, the final Tweet showed the wood top of Onion Joe’s dais with “Pantera” carved in it, doubtless with a pocket knife. (Switchblade?)

    Onion Joe, ladies and gentlemen!

  54. 54.

    Fair Economist

    @Kent:

     

    But from reports, Harris’ problems were at least party self-inflicted.

    I keep seeing this, but I haven’t actually seen any real sources. Everything I’ve seen is gossipy/Monday morning quarterbacking and in the age of social media I’ve become VERY suspicious of that kind of “information”. Rumors spread and distort so easily these days.

  55. 55.

    chopper

    @Yutsano:

    if joe locks in the nom, all obama has to do is tweet out a pic of his famously worn-through 2008 campaign shoes saying ‘time to put on my campaignin’ shoes!’ and the entire internet will fucking explode.

  57. 57.

    trollhattan

    @Baud:

    Their chemistry is palpable whenever they appear together. Jill and Michelle, too. It’s infectious and TBH, perhaps my favorite thing about Biden.

  58. 58.

    MomSense

    @hueyplong:

    I do think that people feel like they know him because he’s been around so long and that helps to inoculate him from the Russian attacks.  I also think the fact that he is the subject of Trump’s impeachable offenses helps as well.  Trump’s fear of him sort of fixed the idea that he is the one they fear.

    The Russian attacks on our democracy never stopped and they will only get worse.  I don’t see any of the other candidates with as much familiarity and trust over the long haul to offset the smears that the a Russians will surely inject into this election.

  59. 59.

    PJ

    @MattF: There is a WP journalist, Dave Weigel, now covering the Democratic campaign, who is a libertarian (voted for Ron Paul and Gary Johnson) and is now pretty open about his support for Bernie.  I don’t get this at all from an ideological or policy basis, because if Bernie actually becomes President, he’s going to work to jack up regulation of business and put restrictions on private property and wealth, but there’s the sense that he’s the “outsider” (like Trump) who will come in and shake things up and speak truth to power, despite the fact that he’s been in Congress for 30 years and has accomplished next to nothing in that time.  He and Trump are always jabbering about the corrupt elites (which they, of course, are not part of), and, for different reasons, neither of them would point to white resentment and bias as a major cause of our problems, which naturally appeals to a certain set of white voters.

  60. 60.

    Fair Economist

    @MattF:

     

    There’s also the mystery of the Sanders –> Trump voters.

    They are Republican ratfuckers, not genuine Sanders supporters. Be ready, there will be even more this year with no Republican primaries.

  62. 62.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I just want to say that these posts are very much appreciated as my safe-space/R&R away from the all the damn Messiah BS that so many of my BS-loving friends constantly spout.  Thank you.

  63. 63.

    Mnemosyne

    @lumpy:

    Yeah, misogyny, racism, and Russian interference didn’t have anything to do with that at all. ?

    We would be in a much better position if people on the left could accept that Hillary was not, in fact, a terrible candidate and that she got unfairly fucked over by circumstances beyond her control. Yes, she made mistakes — AS EVERY CANDIDATE DOES — but those mistakes didn’t cause three crucial states to suddenly switch Republican. Massive and targeted suppression of African American voters did that.

  64. 64.

    kindness

    Jesus people Joe isn’t any of our first choices here but if he does end up getting nominated it will still be a way better administration than any Republican one.

    Don’t completely freak out.

  67. 67.

    trollhattan

    @Kent:

    Flipping Biden’s entry point with, say, Harris’ would have been interesting, but at the end of the day Biden had and has the best name recognition and vastly more time in the public eye than the rest of them, and I suspect is unique in his ability to come in late–“late” in this case being exactly right because everybody else was bloodying the others and trying to gain respectability. Even Wilmer, though he doesn’t think so.

  68. 68.

    Fair Economist

    @dmsilev: I am surprised that in such a complicated race the brokered convention is so unlikely (1 in 7). I wonder how they got those numbers.

  69. 69.

    germy

    Although the play [Abie’s Irish Rose] was a tremendous popular success, it was universally loathed by the critics. Robert Benchley, then the theatre critic for Life magazine, nursed a particular hatred for it. Part of Benchley’s job was to write capsule reviews each week. Abie’s Irish Rose he described variously as “Something Awful”, “Just about as low as good clean fun can get”, “Showing that the Jews and the Irish crack equally old jokes”, “The comic spirit of 1876”, “People laugh at this every night, which explains why democracy can never be a success”, “Will the Marines never come?” and finally “Hebrews 13:8,” a Biblical passage that reads, “Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today, and forever.” He also held a contest for an outsider to contribute the capsule review, which Harpo Marx won with “No worse than a bad cold.”

  70. 70.

    Major Major Major Major

    @PJ: Weigel obviously likes Bernie well enough but I haven’t seen him say he’s a supporter? At any rate, it’s entirely possible that the prog-rock-loving libertarian finally matured into a prog-rock-loving Democrat. Plenty of Paul types were more anti-big-business/banks than they were proper libertarians.

  72. 72.

    lumpy

    My previous comment was half baked and I apologize for not doing better. I was not impugning Hillary Clinton (although I can see how someone would interpret my comment that way).

    When I say Democrats should not “aim low” I mean that we need to stop making concessions pre-negotiations, stop triangulating, stop trying to appeal to “swing voters” (who are by definition “low information”).

    If Biden is your top pick in 2020, that’s great (I don’t agree with your pick, but I accept your choice). If you are already at this point “willing to settle for Biden” you need to stiffen up your spine. Weakness doesn’t persuade voters.

  73. 73.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Kent: Rod Morrow and JL Cauvin (two Black comedians) discussed the presidential race on TheBlackGuyWhoTips podcast a couple weeks ago and noted that (paraphrase)

    “The thing is, Joe Biden is the only candidate who can Out-White-Man Trump.”  Like, I don’t think anything that Trump tries to throw at him will really work because the public (aside from the small but vocal, Extremely Online Leftists) largely just likes him.

  74. 74.

    chris

    @germy:

    Any Kiko’s House readers here?

    Occasional reader here, directed there by you IIRC some time ago. He was very good and will be missed.

  75. 75.

    Emma from FL

    @lumpy: Who’s this we?

     

    @lumpy: And did you forget that we WON the damn election? Hillary WON the popular vote. It was only the voter suppression shenanigans in a few states and the Russian ratfucking that saddled us with the Orange Illiterate.

  77. 77.

    TaMara (HFG)

    Just dropping this here. I’m fine with 2020 Mostly Harmless after this week.

    Biden/Harris

    Warren/Castro

    Either would get my enthusiastic endorsement.

  80. 80.

    PJ

    @Fair Economist: Harris was spending too much money, which is a sign her campaign was not properly focused.  When she bowed out, she had collected just $1MM less than Biden, and was in fifth place in national polls.  If Biden could still be in it (or Klobuchar, or Yang, for that matter) there was no reason why she shouldn’t still be in it.    I also think she had a problem figuring out how to distinguish herself in a crowded field, but that’s a subjective take.  Also, her sister was her co-campaign chair, which was not a good sign.

  81. 81.

    lumpy

    @chopper: Sorry if it seemed like a slam against Hillary (who I voted for on 2016 without reservation). Hillary was considered more liberal than Obama when they both ran in 2008, a fact that most Obama voters probably didn’t know. (despite the AUMF vote – a vote Obama conveniently did not need to make).

    If Biden is the candidate I’ll vote for him, but JFC it’s way too early to think about “settling” for a candidate.

  85. 85.

    bucachon

    One thing I would enjoy about a Biden presidency is that no one but no one thinks he’s the messiah. He would just… be president.

    this is the best rationale I’ve heard yet for if he’s the nominee, tho Warren or Sanders please. I live in PR so can’t vote but people please. Vote for whoever they nominate. Primaries have fights. We’ll survive.

    but what’s going on in the senate? That’s going to be fuckin important but from what I’ve heard impossible for the dems to take it.

  86. 86.

    kindness

    No 2 Senators on the ticket please.  We need every damn Senator we can seat.

    I’ll still be voting for Warren on Super Tuesday when California’s voice will finally matter some.

  90. 90.

    PJ

    @Major Major Major Major: I haven’t seen any public proclamations from Weigel, and I doubt we’d ever see any, since he’s covering the race, but his retweeting of pro-Bernie stuff, particularly compared to other candidates, is off the charts.

    ETA: Judging from his tweets, again (don’t know how accurate this is as a reflection of his opinions), I’d guess that Weigel would say that he is an Independent and not a Democrat.  In other words, I don’t think he will necessarily vote for the Democrat if Bernie is not the nominee.

  92. 92.

    germy

    @PJ:

     I also think she had a problem figuring out how to distinguish herself in a crowded field, but that’s a subjective take.  Also, her sister was her co-campaign chair, which was not a good sign.

    Her sister is a professional with an impressive resume (google her).  And if she had a problem distinguishing herself, it was because she was often ignored by the media.

  94. 94.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Joe Biden skated through the last four months of debates, 

    The Bernie Bros are on some hard narcotics.

    yes, after Biden was bludgeoned and Warren and Pete took the lead the scrutiny turned on them. That’s how it works.

  99. 99.

    Mnemosyne

    @lumpy:

    Eh, fair enough. I just wouldn’t underestimate people’s desire to have another “no drama” president where they don’t have to cringe every time they get a news alert.

    Here in CA, my spouse is 100 percent on board with Senator Professor Warren and will crawl over broken glass to vote for her in the primary. She’s been his top choice since he saw her in that documentary about bankruptcy and he’s been dying to vote for her ever since.

    Of the remaining nominees, I will probably be voting for Warren or Biden depending on how things develop between now and then.

  100. 100.

    PJ

    @Major Major Major Major: Harris wants to be President, and VP to a man who might not run after one term (or make it through two terms if he does), is not a bad spot to be in.  But she may decide it’s better to stay put and run again for President in four or eight years as a Senator.  Her national profile will have risen in that time (assuming we still have a functioning democracy) regardless of whether she is VP.

  101. 101.

    Kay (not the front-pager)

    @robmassing: So what stage of grief am I in? Acceptance. I accept that, even though I don’t think Biden would be the best president, even of the candidates still running, probably he is the candidate least likely to be gang-up-on by the media mean-girls/boys. Therefore probably he has the best chance of winning, all things being equal.

    I will work for, donate to, and vote for Elizabeth Warren in the primary. But I will vote for whoever is the Democratic candidate in November. Just please, I don’t want to have to vote for Steyer, Bloomberg, or Putin & Trump’s boy, Bernie.

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne

    @MattF:

    Well, kind of. Best evidence seems to show that Sanders to Trump voters were the ones most likely to be racist and sexist. Bernie’s “it’s all about social class!” focus does tend to attract racist, sexist white men who want an explanation for why they’re not getting ahead in life like they were supposed to. They like that Sanders downplays everything except economics.

    ETA: Sorry, forgot link with statistics.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

  103. 103.

    Served

    My main issues with Biden are

    1. His flippant comments towards student debt and millennial issues in general
    2. His lack of comprehension on how there is no “going back” to the way it was. When you’re in power, you seize what you can. Those are the rules now.
    3. His lack of urgency when speaking about issues like healthcare and climate change

    He won’t be changing any of those things, and I feel like we waste 4 years while the right regroups and we haven’t gained any ground from the last 4 years of demolition. So I’ll just have to shrug my way to vote for a past-his-prime placeholder.

  104. 104.

    sab

    @japa21: Also he thought the ACA was a BFD. It saved my life. Rahm Emanuel thought the issue should be postponed. Biden didn’t.

    On the other hand, his campaign site has sad bling. Just a mug and some t-shirts. I want good ice-scrapers.

  105. 105.

    germy

    @Kay (not the front-pager):

    probably he is the candidate least likely to be gang-up-on by the media mean-girls/boys.

    I don’t know.  I think they’d go after any Democrat.  I’m not sure Biden’s immune to the mainstream meanies.

    I will work for, donate to, and vote for Elizabeth Warren in the primary. But I will vote for whoever is the Democratic candidate in November.

    Yes. I’m in the Warren camp, but I’ll get behind the nominee if it isn’t her.

  107. 107.

    Mnemosyne

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Is that big dip when Warren laid out her M4A plan?

    If so, I now have to agree with the people who say that it was a mistake to do that. M4A just isn’t as popular with regular people as it is with Twitter bots.

  110. 110.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    An interesting thing: I saw a CNN propaganda opinion piece talking about how the Democrats play for Parnas’ evidence was “weak” because the Republicans could vote not to enter it into the record.

    Notice how this sets the tone: it’s okay to do something, if you’re strong enough to make it happen, i.e., “might makes right”, a renunciation of any and all moral principles.

    And, right and wrong don’t matter – we “know” the Republicans will hang together. Whether this is supposed to fill you with elation or despair, it’s intended to temper expectations – to make it cost more to vote to convict Trump for a lawless, Republican (of course, I repeat myself, in this context) Senator, and hinting to journalists and news consumers that it’s all normal and expected for that to happen, so you might as well just sigh in existential despair and have another drink, but not worry too much, because it’s just dirty politics as usual.

    It’s interesting the amoral bad faith it shows, and how it cues in the reader to view it as a political battle only (like dismantling the ACA), when it’s clearly not.

    Next to asking the DOJ to investigate the Bidens, knowing there’s no call for it, the worst thing a President could possibly do to a US citizen is put them in legal jeopardy,  hinting that you expect a foreign government to find “terrible things” happened.

    Doing so to harm a political opponent clearly makes it worse. And, sure, the Republican congresscritters have opened dozens of bad faith investigations, because they can, and lapdog reporters wouldn’t *dare* question whether Benghazipalooza was in bad faith or not; but those were investigations that they could *control*. Telling Ukraine to find “terrible things” happened is beyond their control.

    Since we know damn well that the DOJ was going to open parallel investigations, *because* of the Ukraine investigations, makes it worse still – oh, wait, we haven’t proof of that. Strange how we need “proof” when it’s a Republican targeted.

    If you even *needed* icing on this turd-cake, remember who knows, better than anyone, how awful, horrible, life-shattering, nasty, etc., it is to be *INVESTIGATED* – the man who cries like a toddler every time people want to know more about his wrongdoing. You can’t excuse this behavior by saying “he was only asking for an investigation” because Trump can’t pretend an investigation is no big deal.

    There are a lot of people (including Paul Callan) who really want you to think that right and wrong don’t matter, because impeachment is a political process. However, politics is about power; partisanship is a different thing, and a much nastier thing, and what these people want you to think that “political” and “partisan” are identical. They’re not. Senators really do have a duty to the American people. The GOP senators just get to ignore it,  unless enough  people get angry.

  113. 113.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

     

    @MattF: dumbed down politics

    not a huge gap between “there is NO reason” and “it’ll be easy, believe me”

  114. 114.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Mnemosyne: it started with that, which dragged on for a while, and since then her campaign hasn’t quite regained its footing. I dunno why—Weigel today said they seem to have the yips, which I thought seemed sorta fitting.

    And speaking just for myself, her M4A disaster really did put me back on the sidelines of the race. Dunno who I’ll vote for come March.

    ETA: the big dip started when she was squishily defending Bernie’s plan, then released her crazy funding proposal, then flopped back to introduce her phase-in approach. Honestly very out of character for her, the whole thing.

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    @Baud:

    The things that hurt Warren’s campaign were all the times she listened to Sanders’ people about what she should focus on.

    She would probably be in the lead if she had embraced Hillary and her voters early on.

  116. 116.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @lumpy:

    If you are already at this point “willing to settle for Biden” you need to stiffen up your spine. Weakness doesn’t persuade voters.

    On the contrary.  I would say it’s a sign of Democratic strength.  WHOEVER is nominated, we are ready to fall in line and kick Trump out.  Fuck demanding a pony, this is more important.

  117. 117.

    Chris Johnson

    @Mnemosyne: I’m thinking it’s when the Russians seriously targeted her because they really want to be running against Biden, against whom they are prepared.

  119. 119.

    japa21

    @sab: Sad bling is almost, but not quite disqualifying.

     

    I have said before, the Biden post the Obama administration was a different man than the one before he was VP.  Trump has the ability, as has been noted many times, to drag everybody who works for him down to his level. Obama had (and still has) the ability to bring out the best in people and to get them to see the world in different ways.

  120. 120.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    On Thursday Arizona Senator Martha McSally called CNN reporter Manu Raju “a liberal hack” after Raju had asked the first-term Republican senator about her position on new evidence being considered in President Trump’s Senate impeachment trial.

    ***

    refuses to answer impeachment question

    BWHWHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

    Repubs in Disarray

    Freaks out over a weak tea, softball question that any competent politician would laugh at.

  121. 121.

    Baud

    @Mnemosyne:

    I would like to have seen that. I can see why someone wouldn’t want to risk it if they’re in the lead, but if you’re behind, why wouldn’t you try to tap into our anger? Makes no sense to me.

  122. 122.

    Mnemosyne

    @Chris Johnson:

    I think the Russians *think* they’re prepared against Biden, but I don’t think it’s going to be as easy as it was with Hillary, because Biden is a white dude. Sad but true — he’s going to get a certain automatic credibility and benefit of the doubt that Hillary did not because he’s a white man.

    That’s why Trump impeached himself so he could try to damage Biden’s campaign — the more subtle attacks weren’t working.

  125. 125.

    jl

    @Baud: This is just my guess, but I think Warren boxed herself into a corner on health care fairly early on.

    Most of the public debate on health care reform is total BS.

    “Can people keep their private insurance”  the correct answer is NO, not in its current form, regardless of whether we do M4A or go stronger ACA. Stronger ACA that guards against medical bankruptcy and prevent unsustainable cost increases will require much much stronger regulations, and major changes in private policies.

    “How you going to pay for it?” Silly question. US pays 18 percent of GDP, maximum of others is 12. For some reason even though Sanders is only one to make this point explicitly, even he shies away from it and moves on asap.

    “Millions will get kicked off their policies!”: Cheap GOP talking point.

    I think Warren lost her nerve in calling BS on these junk debate questions and junk centrist arguments, and boxed herself into a proposal that many interpreted as waffling, and is simply politically clumsy and infeasible (IMHO, even though I am still a Warren supporter)

  127. 127.

    Mnemosyne

    @Baud:

    Unfortunately, I think SPW drank a little too much of the Berner Flavor-Ade and thought she knew that Hillary lost because everyone secretly hated her. I kind of wonder if she still had some lingering anti-Clinton feelings from her days as a Republican (IIRC, she first voted Democrat in 1996).

  128. 128.

    Rob in CT

    He’s not my favorite, or even my 2nd choice, but yeah, there’s some truth here.  Cultists annoy me.

  132. 132.

    Baud

    @Mnemosyne:

    Kamala made a similar mistake IMHO. She signed on to Bernie’s M4A bill and then tried to walk it back.  Too bad, because I kind of like where she ended up on health care.

  134. 134.

    Kent

    @Major Major Major Major:@TaMara (HFG): Harris is a youngish Senator For Life, I can’t see her enjoying being VP… Castro would love the job I imagine.

    VP for a 78 year old president means “president in waiting”.  She would INSTANTLY be the front-runner for 2024 or 2028 if Biden lasted 2-terms.  In fact, Biden’s VP stands a good chance of stepping into the presidency if his health declines and he is forced to resign.

    Of COURSE she would take the job.  If she wants to be president anyway.

  135. 135.

    Barbara

    @lumpy: I read the rest of your comments so I appreciate that they are more nuanced than they first appeared.  I donate monthly (at this point) to Warren and Klobuchar, and I will be transferring my Booker and Harris donations to Biden, probably dividing them a bit with the others.

    My issue with Biden is, a bit, age, but also that he might not feel the urgency that Klobuchar and Warren do.  My issue with Sanders is age, health, and the fact that I honestly do not see that he has the chops or skills to bring about change however much he thinks it is necessary or urgent.  I think those are all very defensible positions and not a sign of settling.

  136. 136.

    Mnemosyne

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Oh, dear God, have you missed that? It got so bad that Bernie’s campaign had to start pleading with people to knock it off.

    My favorites were the people who spelled out “SNEK” using the snake emoji.

    (Because, yanno, Warren is a snake and a backstabber for being mean in public to St. Bernie the Pure.)

  140. 140.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Major Major Major Major:

    snake idiots?

    After Warren said Sanders said a woman can’t win – and note Warren doesn’t think the statement was a very big deal because it’s a comment on America’s misogyny – Sanders denied it, and holy shit, you cannot imagine the screaming monkey fit his followers on Twitter have gone in on.  Mention the issue, even if you’re a nobody, and they will FLOOD your replies.  It’s insane and it’s turning people against Sanders.

  141. 141.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    According to new book by WaPo reporters-Trump doesn’t seem to grasp the fundamental history of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

    “Hey, John, what’s this all about? What’s this a tour of?” Trump asks COS Kelly as they prepare to take a private tour of USS Arizona Memorial.
    — dmgs (@dmgshuey) January 16, 2020

    How do you get to the age of 70+ and not have a vague idea of what happened at Pearl Harbor? You do not need to be particularly knowledgeable with history to know the main point of it?
    — Craig Grainger (@CraigJCG) January 17, 2020

  145. 145.

    jl

    I think one thing forgotten in these arguments is that the field will narrow. Unless Biden can get a majority of delegates all to his own, then the winner will be the one that can gather enough delegates from progressives and centrists coalescing into two camps, or maybe some unexpected combination across camps. When I look at the polls and count up support for centrist and progressive candidates I see things about 50-50. It might depend on how much drop out subsequent coalescing happens before Super Tuesday.

    And most recent polls suggest tight four way races between the leaders, Biden, Sanders, Warren and Buttigieg. For whatever Iowa, NH and Nevada are worth for later elections.

  147. 147.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @jl:

    the winner will be the one that can gather enough delegates from progressives and centrists coalescing into two camps, or maybe some unexpected combination across camps.

    That won’t be Sanders.  He’s the only major candidate who is viewed seriously negatively by his non-supporters.  Everybody else gets an “I would be fine with” or better from over 90% of Democrats.

  148. 148.

    Mnemosyne

    @Immanentize:

    I guess he thought that if it worked for Manafort and Weinstein, it would work for him?

    (Nobody tell him that it’s not working for Manafort or Weinstein, either.)

  150. 150.

    sab

    @Immanentize:I passionately hate the man, but he did have polio. I am old enough that I remember when the disease was a real threat. I have friends whose older siblings got it. It is a terrible insidious disease. If you survive i intitially and claw your way back to functionality, it still reappears wwhen you age. you have to refight those old battles again, and failing is much more likely.

    I try to be a good, caring person, but Moscow Mitch with his serious pre-existing condition has spent his whole life trying to cut the rest of us not so well-connected off. I will not be sad if he has a pre-existing condition that all the benefits and money in the world cannot fix.

  151. 151.

    Barbara

    @Mnemosyne: I won’t get too far on my soapbox but most people who talk about “M4A” have only the vaguest notion of how Medicare actually works.  What they are reacting to is its political popularity, such that it cannot be torched or screwed with too badly.  But they have no inkling that it is now and has always been administered by private insurers, that close to 50% of beneficiaries have chosen to enroll in privately contracted plans, that it silos inpatient, outpatient, and prescription coverage in ways that are nightmares for people who have certain kinds of chronic conditions and I could go on.  I just find it exasperating.

  153. 153.

    Hoodie

    A lot of this commentary seems couched in a kind of irony and resignation, with some merit, but one could also say that Biden has run a pretty good campaign, arguably better that  his competitors.  He seems to have a good staff and I think his messaging has been top notch.  He knows his strengths and, now, he has a better handle on his weaknesses and lets the game come to him.  Yeah, you can say he has name recognition, etc., that gives him an edge, but he’s largely earned that.  For example, he probably gets a lot of cred from black voters because he was willing to happily be second fiddle for a black president, never missing an opportunity to sing Obama’s praises.

     

    Bernie has as much name recognition, but he turns off a big chunk of the Dem base because he’s tone deaf, egotistical and can’t rope in his cultish followers.  Warren is brilliant, but she has been inconsistent and made a lot of unforced errors, e.g., she’s trying to stay in step with Bernie, then she’s fighting with him.  It was a questionable strategy for her to initially go after his voters, precisely because of the cultishness of a lot of his support. Harris has potential but was too disorganized and scattered, from what I’ve seen.  I really like Castro, but his stance on immigration was going to be a tough sell.  Buttagieg is too inexperience and blew the South Bend police and McKinsey issues.   Klobuchar might be doing better if Biden wasn’t running.  Don’t be too surprised if Biden considers her for a running mate as part of an upper Midwest EC strategy.  It’s hard for her to get exposure coming from MN, so being VP would give her a chance to get more widely known.

  154. 154.

    WaterGirl

    @dmsilev: Interesting.  If I recall correctly, Al Giordano gave Biden and Warren each a 3 in 10 chance, and Buttigieg and Bernie each a 1 in 10 chance.  Amy K didn’t get a rating because her chances are so low, but she is a wild card.

  155. 155.

    jl

    @Frankensteinbeck: Fine. I’m a progressive supporting Warren, not Sanders, this cycle. So, I don’t care at all how well he does, as long as whatever he does doesn’t harm chances of a big Democratic sweep in November. I hope it’s Warren, but if it’s not, that is water under the bridge.

  157. 157.

    Barbara

    @Hoodie: Klobuchar would be doing better if Buttigieg weren’t running.  She knows it too.  That’s why she goes after him.  And Buttigieg correcting Steyer about which low level position he actually filled at McKinsey didn’t do much to persuade me that he is not much more than a bag full of credentials.

  158. 158.

    sab

    @Barbara: BS talks about M4A as if it has no premiums and no copays. I am on actual Medicare and it has all of the above (as I know that you know.) His Medicare for All doesn’t even faintly resemble Medicare.

  161. 161.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Hoodie:

    Klobuchar might be doing better if Biden wasn’t running.

    I was listening to the O’Bros debate recap, and they played a clip of AK talking about her grandfather the iron miner who saved money in an old coffee can to put her dad through college. I never heard that story before, and I suspect at this point I could lip-sync Warren’s Aunt Be a story. By design or by chance, AK got pegged as the anti-bernie, the ‘we can’t have big stuff’ candidate. If she had sold herself as the iron-miner’s granddaughter , I think we’d be in a different race.

  162. 162.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: hmmm, your milage varries, he looks to me like he has Kennedy’s (?) arm and is grimacing. I’d like to see viddy. He has already taken a fall or two. He is not doing well.

  163. 163.

    Kay (not the front-pager)

    @bucachon: from what I’ve heard impossible for the dems to take it.

     

    Nope. Cory Whatsisnaname in Colorado is very vulnerable. McSally in AZ lost to Sinima (is that how you spell her name?) in ’18 and had to be appointed; she’s vulnerable in ’20. Susan Collins? Hahahaha! That ust leaves 1 more to pick up, and Tillis in NC isn’t doing all that well, GA may even be shaky. So the Senate definitely is not out of reach.

  164. 164.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lumpy:

    If Biden is your top pick in 2020, that’s great (I don’t agree with your pick, but I accept your choice).

    Do you really? Oh, that’s very kind of you.

    If you are already at this point “willing to settle for Biden” you need to stiffen up your spine. Weakness doesn’t persuade voters.

    but the smarmy condescension of an adolescent (whatever your actual age) know-it-all? That draws voters like bees to honey! I sure do hope you’ll come back!

  166. 166.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: Interesting.  When I was first trying to walk again after my broken ankle, I could walk okay if I were in my hallway, even if my fingers were just barely brushing against the wall.  Without that, I was super wobbly and off balance.

    That was the first thing I thought of when I saw that picture, but I don’t know that i would have gotten there on my now if I had just seen the picture with no lead in.

    edit: are you thinking there were 2 spotters in case he went wobbly?

  167. 167.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Immanentize: If he wasn’t wearing a black suit we could see whether or not the fabric is tightened around the arm as if he was gripping the sleeve. As is I see no finger tips, nor do I see a thumb, as I would expect to see one or the other or both, if he was holding his arm.

  169. 169.

    Patricia Kayden

    Pro-life, my behind.

    Rep. Higgins, R-Louisiana, says “While unfortunate, the deaths of migrant children may be unavoidable.”Since Higgins is on the Homeland Security committee, it is literally his job to avoid causing the deaths of people in custody.Help me replace him in Congress. pic.twitter.com/231PVJV0df— ⚜️Rob Anderson for Louisiana (@RobAnderson2018) January 16, 2020

  170. 170.

    Mnemosyne

    @Barbara:

    I can’t even tell you how many people seem to think that traditional Medicare is free for patients. ?

    I’m happy to have a conversation about how we get to a workable universal healthcare system, but not with people who can’t even get the facts of our current system right, much less how other countries’ systems work. “Single payer” systems are far from universal.

  171. 171.

    sab

    @Baud: It ain’t medicare and it ain’t doable.

    I collapsed on the kitchen floor while we debated whether or not to incur the expense and pointless wait of the emergency room. We finally decided on urgent care. They called an ambulance because they thought I was dying. EMS restarted my heart in the parking lot. None of that would have happened if I had not had insurance. I would have died on the kitchen floor.

    Okay for me. Seriously traumatic for my husband.

  173. 173.

    Baud

    @sab: I have seen remarkably little analysis on how M4A would work operationally. Most of the analysis I’ve seen has been about it’s ability to control medical costs.

  174. 174.

    feebog

    As Biden would say, here’s the deal.  Whatever you think of Joe Biden’s political baggage and accomplishments, he is moral and decent human being.  Does he come out with some shit that makes you cringe?  Yeah.  Does he come across as the guy who can barely figure out the basics of his Iphone or how to order a pizza online?  Yep.  But he also comes across as a caring, affectionate, likable person.  In other words, the Anti-Trump.  That’s what a lot of people see and care about, as opposed to us wonky nerds who actually are concerned with political issues.  We are going to need someone following Trump who can bring this country back to some semblance of normal.  Biden may be that guy.

  175. 175.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: UPDATE!  That picture wasn’t even from today.  He was wearing some grey striped mafia suit today.  But I can’t find really any CSPAN footage of him walking.

  177. 177.

    Mnemosyne

    @Hoodie:

    Biden has been campaigning for Black candidates since at least 2008 and probably before. He has a lot of favors he can call in and Black voters know that he will owe them if he wins, and that they can trust him to pay up.

    @Kay (not the front-pager):

    McSally’s Democratic challenger is Mark Kelly, former astronaut and current husband of Gabrielle Giffords. McSally is toast and she knows it.

  180. 180.

    Kent

    @Barbara:@Hoodie: Klobuchar would be doing better if Buttigieg weren’t running.  She knows it too.  That’s why she goes after him.  And Buttigieg correcting Steyer about which low level position he actually filled at McKinsey didn’t do much to persuade me that he is not much more than a bag full of credentials.

    It was his Dwight Schrute moment:  “Assistant TO THE Regional Manager” not “Assistant Regional Manager”

    for all you “The Office” fans.

  181. 181.

    Mnemosyne

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’m only sanguine because Sanders ain’t getting the nomination, and he won’t be able to pull the shit on Biden that he did on Hillary. Crazy Uncle Joe can be meaner and more cutting than Hillary was allowed to be.

  182. 182.

    sab

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes. Though you live in Mass, so y’all aren’t as much at risk as the rest of us. My baby sister in Mass doesn’t understand the panic the rest of us have about health insurance. I used to be healthy, but this has haunted my whole adult life, being female.

  183. 183.

    PJ

    @sab: Medicare for All is a misnomer, based on its popularity with people who are unfamiliar with how actual Medicare works.  As I understand it, the candidates who are advocating for Medicare for All have a plan in mind which does not operate like Medicare.

  184. 184.

    Kay (not the front-pager)

    @germy: You are right, the mainstream media (can we still call them the MSM?) will be critical of any Democrat. But Good Ole’ Joe is ever’body’s buddy, sort of like McCain.No identity, you know, no race or religion or sex, just a regular guy. White male Christian isn’t an identity doncha know. So when  Castro or Harris say something tough or confrontational on the debate stage it’s not taken quite the same as criticism of any of the other candidates. And he’s good at milking it. He isn’t outraged about attacks on his son. He’s resigned to attacks on his surviving son. So he knows how to get sympathy without overtly asking for it, and it works.

    I’ll work for and vote for anyone with a D behind their name. But there are a couple-3 that I will be a little begrudging about doing so, and Joe is not one of ’em, that’s all I’m saying about that.

  185. 185.

    MomSense

    @Served:

    If millennials want politicians to take their issues seriously then they have to fucking show up at the polls every election.  There are as many millennials as there are boomers but only 19% of those eligible to vote showed up in 2016.  38% showed up in 2018 and created the blue wave!

    No politician is going to go all out for the millennial cohort if they are not dependable voters.  It’s really that simple. If millennials had voted in 2016 we wouldn’t be in this mess.  They could have defeated Russia, GOP voter suppression, and Comey.

  186. 186.

    Kent

    @PJ:@sab: Medicare for All is a misnomer, based on its popularity with people who are unfamiliar with how actual Medicare works.  As I understand it, the candidates who are advocating for Medicare for All have a plan in mind which does not operate like Medicare.

    About 1/3 of Medicare is Medicare Advantage which is private insurance subsidized by Medicare.   That’s the obvious difference.  Not to mention the co-pays, supplemental premiums and coverage gaps and supplemental insurance.

    So yes, I agree.  It is incredibly sloppy.  The whole debate is a hot mess.

  187. 187.

    sab

    @PJ: I know that. I just really hate the phucking misleading terminology. Sets up a stupid fight that has notjing to do with facts.

  189. 189.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Hot mic on purpose?

    I’m glad Elizabeth called him out on the hot mic.  But I’m not much of a strategist.  I thought it as classy that she waited until the debate was over, and I found it very believable that she should have / would have wanted to confront him ASAP since he basically called her a liar in front of millions of people.

    Pretty sure she is now reconsidering what kind of “friendship” she has with Bernie, or what kind of friendship Bernie has with anyone.

    If someone I was knew/was friends with came at me and said “You all but called me a liar in front of …” I would have said “I would never do that, we obviously remember this differently, but I would never call you a liar, Elizabeth”.

    I would not have said, “um, this is awkward, could we talk about this later?”  Unless, of course, I was a fucking liar.

  190. 190.

    Jay

    Havn’t seen this reported elsewhere in comments, so:

    Patrik Mathews, who had been missing since he was accused of recruiting for a global neo-Nazi terrorist group while serving in Canada’s army reserves, has been arrested in the United States.

    He was taken into custody in Delaware on Thursday and is scheduled to appear in court in the afternoon.

    Mathews, 27, was one of three arrested by the FBI, according to a release from the U.S. Attorney’s Office. The others are Brian Mark Lemley Jr., 33, and William Garfield Bilbrough IV, 19, both from Maryland.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/patrik-mathews-reservist-neo-nazi-group-army-reservist-1.5429218

  191. 191.

    Kai-two

    Biden 2020 – He’s Not Trump

    Warren 2020 – She’s Not Trump

    Sanders 2020 – He’s Not Trump

     

     

    Any of those work for me.

  195. 195.

    BC in Illinois

    @feebog: 

    But he also comes across as a caring, affectionate, likable person. In other words, the Anti-Trump. . . .We are going to need someone following Trump who can bring this country back to some semblance of normal. Biden may be that guy.

    I am fairly firmly in the Warren camp. Yesterday, I went to the new Warren-for-Missouri headquarters in the St. Louis area (there is another in KC), asked them what they needed in setting up, and returned an hour later with a table, a wastepaper basket, a package of toilet paper, a package of paper towels, and a coffee-maker. Where I am sitting, I have two of her (non-lawbook) books within arms reach. There is a “But She Persisted” magnet on our fridge and a similar slogan on a totebag.

    But I also have four pictures of Joe Biden in my cellphone.

    He came to StL in 2016 to fire up the crowd for Jason Kander and he came again in 2018 to speak up for Claire McCaskill. I have always dreamed of him in 2020, firing up the crowds for the eventual nominee, reminding us of why — on a personal level — we were proud to be Democrats.

    If he is the nominee, then we can send the Obamas around the country to barnstorm on his behalf. As well as every other Democrat. He still isn’t my first choice, but I can get excited. A Blue Wave 4% higher than 2018, and we will have a Democratic House, Senate, and a replacement for my present useless Rep, Ann Wagner (R – safe Republican vote).

  196. 196.

    jl

    @Kay (not the front-pager): I’m more cynical than you. Biden may be a Non-Hispanic White guy, but he’s still a Democrat, so will be worthy of coverage that emphasizes his problems, with a general mood of loserdom and defeat, worthy of endless discussion ‘problems’ and many ‘questions’ and his answers do not ‘satisfy’ voters. No bad news for a Democrat ever becomes old news, unworthy of chewing again, like a dog returning to its own vomit.

    And then there are the ratings and profit considerations. Endless footage of Trump’s empty lectern is very profitable way to do news, especially if get lots of clicks and eyeballs. Biden, for all his faults, will actually say something with substance. Have to spend some money covering him, researching what he says, have to cover the dreaded substance and issues.

    I predict “Biden’s a good guy, everyone likes him, but…” Probably first time there will be questions about whether the average voter wants a president they’d like to have a beer with.

  198. 198.

    WaterGirl

    @chris: He’s still around.

    I was never convinced that his me-too moment was real or ginned up.  Never saw anything concrete, and after what happened with I-don’t-even-dare-say-his-name, I’m not going to go by some rumors.

  202. 202.

    jl

    I think both Trump and Biden don’t use alcohol. If they are both in the general, will this be first time two teetotaler candidates?

    But, OTOH, Trump is probably doped up to his gills on something or somethings, so maybe that makes the issue uninteresting.

  203. 203.

    Immanentize

    @zhena gogolia: He does have a seizure disorder.  But the comb-over is egregious!

    Also, where is SteveIn?! I noticed today in the oath signing procession, they called Mc names after all of the Ma names (Markey being the last ). I am OUTRAGED! As are all my gradeschool teachers, I’m sure.

  205. 205.

    Kelly

    Ha! The Trump twisting Ukrain’s arm to dig up dirt on Biden is an elaborate ruse to convince us Biden is the candidate Trump fears most. Trump is scheming for a rebound effect that will make his weakest opponent, Biden, the nominee.

    /s

  206. 206.

    Brachiator

    @feebog:

    But he also comes across as a caring, affectionate, likable person. In other words, the Anti-Trump. That’s what a lot of people see and care about, as opposed to us wonky nerds who actually are concerned with political issues. We are going to need someone following Trump who can bring this country back to some semblance of normal. Biden may be that guy.

    Well said, and I do not disagree.  But it also is not what I am looking for.  I want someone who will rebuild trust and honesty, and who will govern well and go forward into the future, dealing with new challenges, and with old challenges in new ways.

    Biden is an old guy who should be retired and at best advising a new generation.

    I will happily vote for any Dem nominee, because they are all superior to Trump.  I will eagerly support and vote for Biden if he is the party’s choice. But I am not just looking to “bring the country back.”  I see Trump as an unfortunate detour, an interruption, a false move back based on phony nostalgia.  Where we have been is never as interesting as where we might go next.

    The part that I liked about Biden was the part that was linked to Obama, who for me represented new hope.  We still need that.  Not a cleanup person or placeholder.

  208. 208.

    Patricia Kayden

    Not corrupt at all.

    RNC chair Ronna McDaniel, White House aides, lobbyists, top party officials and Super PAC aides gather for an “off the record” dinner at Trump Hotel every month. It costs about $3,000, and the president’s party pays the president’s hotel. https://t.co/E1owcydfr7— Josh Dawsey (@jdawsey1) January 17, 2020

  209. 209.

    joel hanes

    @germy:

    I will miss Kiko’s House, which I’ve read for years.

    Just as I miss Doghouse Riley and Jon Swift and Steve Gilliard.

  211. 211.

    Kent

    If Obama campaigns with Biden like of course he will.  Then fall 2020 is going to be lit.  Because those two have serious chemistry.  I expect Obama to campaign for any of them but with Biden it will be the most genuine.  With Bernie the most forced I think.

  212. 212.

    Mnemosyne

    @MomSense:

    There’s always a group of people on the left who are totally convinced that if they don’t vote, politicians will be forced to cater to them to “earn” their votes.

    As we all know, what actually happens is that they get ignored and politicians go after the people who actually SHOW UP, which is why Biden made a point of sewing up the Black vote early on.

  213. 213.

    LongHairedWeirdo

    I can just say, kudos for the perfect summation, that looks like trolling, but clearly is merely meant to be ironic enough to press a shirt if we can find an inonicing board.

  214. 214.

    Steeplejack

    @WaterGirl:

    According to Wikipedia, McConnell had polio when he was two years old. It didn’t stop him from going into the Army Reserve at age 25 (in 1967, right after he graduated from law school and lost his Vietnam student deferment). ? His (suspiciously short) service lasted little more than a month, when he was diagnosed with optic neuritis and deemed medically unfit for service. (No mention of polio.)

    He will be 78 next month. What it likely is that he has the weak legs of an overweight, sedentary old man. I don’t think one needs to reach for polio or post-polio as an explanation.

    His brief time in service has repeatedly been put at issue by his political opponents during his electoral campaigns. Although McConnell has allowed reporters to examine parts of his military record and take notes, he has refused to allow copies to be made or to disclose his entire record, despite calls by his opponents to do so. His time in service has also been the subject of criticism because his discharge was accelerated after his father placed a call to Sen. John Sherman Cooper, who then sent a wire to the commanding general at Fort Knox on August 10 [, 1967], advising that “Mitchell [is] anxious to clear post in order to enroll in NYU.” He was allowed to leave post just five days later, though McConnell maintains that no one helped him with his enlistment into or discharge from the reserves. According to McConnell, he struggled through the exercises at basic training and was sent to a doctor for a physical examination, which revealed McConnell’s optic neuritis. McConnell did not attend NYU.

    Then a gap until he went to work for Sen. Marlow Cook (R-KY) in 1968.

    (Couldn’t resist the opportunity to once again bring up McConnell’s sketchy military service. Not bone spurs, but still . . .)

  215. 215.

    Martin

    I’m fine with Biden. Not my preference, but to be honest, the only thing that matters is getting Trump out. We’ll be elated with anyone after that. If Biden is the winning formula, then so be it – I’ll channel my need for more modern policies through my legislative reps.

    My preference was Harris because I was convinced (and remain convinced) that she’s the most electable, the most likely to get the Democratic base out and knocking on doors.

    IOW, my preferred candidate is the one who wins. I don’t give a shit about Biden’s prior bad votes. Presidents veto and signal priorities to Congress, and at least in the House, I think we have an independent Democratic caucus. They have their own priorities.

  218. 218.

    feebog

    @Brachiator:

    I agree with almost everything you said.  But I’m just two years younger than Biden, still gainfully self employed, so I think the “old guy” moniker is a tad ageist.  I would certainly like to see a younger candidate myself, but his age is not that great a concern to me.

  225. 225.

    Steeplejack

    Just a reminder that Part 2 of the Parnas interview is coming up on Maddow’s show in a few minutes. (I think.)

  228. 228.

    trollhattan

    @WaterGirl:

    I’d be afraid to “have a beer” with Bernie because he’d start yelling at the beer. Liz, I’d have a beer with just to watch Bailey fetch them.

    Bailey’s mom for president!

  229. 229.

    trollhattan

    @Steeplejack:

    IIUC one never fully “recovers” from polio and while it will be completely dormant, it often manifests in old age. Has the good senator taken a stance on vaccination? [asking for a friend]

  230. 230.

    PsiFighter37

    I will be happy as long as Bernie is not the nominee. At this point, I would probably vote for Biden. Not thrilled, but it’s fine. I have no great expectations of what will be accomplished if he is president, since McConnell will kneecap everything possible, but a return to sanity would be very much appreciated.

  231. 231.

    252man

    @MattF: l’ve
    always believed the the supporters of either Sanders or Trump were two sides of the same coin: they want an obnoxious old white guy in charge.

  232. 232.

    Raven Onthill

    Oh, man. If he becomes President, he’s going to give away more to the financial services industry, possibly cut Medicare and Social Security. You’re broke? Forget it; Biden will make sure you’ll stay broke, and even accumulate more debt. It’ll hit white people this time.

    Yeah, he’d be better than Trump or Pence, but, gods.

    On top of which, can he even win? Can he turn out women and African-Americans in the general election?
    Still supporting Warren.

  233. 233.

    Ksmiami

    @sab: I tried to have his wife’s degree rescinded from my alma mater. I loathe them both and hope they suffer agonizing declines since he has harmed so many

  235. 235.

    Steeplejack

    @trollhattan:

    I’m not saying that McConnell absolutely doesn’t have polio-related symptoms, but why jump to that immediately over other more common, more plausible reasons? Occam’s razor.

  237. 237.

    Kirk Spencer

    For myself, I will vote D in both the primary and the general, and I will vote in both.

    Warren remains my favorite in the primary, but I have to admit I like:
    “Biden. It’s a BFD.”

  238. 238.

    cokane

    Do agree with the thrust here. I’ve just never seen a campaign turn around this late given his polling lead.

  239. 239.

    Brachiator

    @feebog:

    I agree with almost everything you said. But I’m just two years younger than Biden, still gainfully self employed, so I think the “old guy” moniker is a tad ageist. I would certainly like to see a younger candidate myself, but his age is not that great a concern to me.

    It’s not just chronological age. It is a matter of vision, and what some people are looking for. I went back and looked at some of the stories about Biden and Obama. Biden seemed to indicate that the VP job would be his last political contribution, after a long career.  He was ready to call it a day, and could see the end of his political contribution. He seems to have gone back on that promise.  It might not just be ambition, maybe he thinks he is the better candidate, and that he is what the country needs.

    Neither Warren nor Sanders are young and hot, but they both seem to be more forward looking than Biden (although I think that Sanders is stuck in a progressive pas that he thinks is meaningful). And I don’t think much of Mayor Pete.

    So, it is not just an age thing.  However, I would also prefer a president who I believed would comfortably be able to serve two full terms.

    ETA:  I am a little younger than you, and also still gainfully employed.  But I also know that I have to pace myself, and there are some things that I simply cannot do as easily as before.  Even if we still have much more to contribute, unless you are very lucky, you have to spend more time on maintenance and upkeep. Hell, my mother is in better shape than I am, and she is positively ancient.

  240. 240.

    cokane

    @japa21: I still gotta say, Biden represents the best chance, according to matchup polling, for a Dem senate majority. i.e. best chance for a blowout victory

  248. 248.

    zhena gogolia

    @Baud:

    Mrs. Betty Bowers is watching too.

    Reason Lev Parnas is speaking while he is under investigation by the DOJ? He thinks AG William Barr is a crook and he's more scared of him than other criminals. #Maddow— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@BettyBowers) January 17, 2020

  251. 251.

    zhena gogolia

    This sounds so good I should make myself watch it. But I can’t.

    Lev Parnas: Trump was directly involved in having Biden accusers come from Ukraine to brief Lindsey Graham. So Lindsey Graham is the Devin Nunes of the Senate: a coconspirator in a criminal scheme to shakedown Ukraine to benefit Trump personally. Good to know. #Maddow— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@BettyBowers) January 17, 2020

  253. 253.

    Bupalos

    I think Biden is the candidate of an America that thinks Trump happened by accident.

    Trump didn’t happen by accident.

    But I do respect the idea that in a country this fat, stupid, white, racist, sexist, and complacent, the way out might have to run through Joe Biden.

  255. 255.

    sdhays

    @Kay (not the front-pager): There are potentially two pickup opportunities in Georgia as well. If we get two strong candidates there, plus all of the extra work Stacy Abrams’ group has been doing, plus a Presidential campaign actually trying to win there, it seems within reach.

    There’s also some less likely, but somewhat interesting possibilities in Kentucky and Texas. Democrats in Texas finally showed some signs of life in 2018 and Dump is not that popular there compared to other red states. I wouldn’t bet on it, but with the right confluence of events, it seems like John Cornyn could potentially go down (at least at this stage). And while Kentucky is deep, deep red, Moscow Mitch is still loathed there. I definitely wouldn’t bet on him losing, but I wouldn’t automatically concede it either. If there’s a landslide, those two could get swept away too.

  257. 257.

    Chyron HR

    @Emma from FL:

    Well, Trump’s made it harder for Bernie’s insane worshipers to accuse Biden of plotting to invade Iran, so they have to accuse him of SOMETHING.

  258. 258.

    Bupalos

    If it’s Biden though, we need to get to work ASAP figuring out Step 2. Because the Trumpublican party is going to go into overdrive finding the next Trump, and they will. And he’ll be less of a sub-human moron and better able to appeal to the folks you drew back over the line with Biden. And 90 year old Biden is going to be sitting there like a stupid duck.

  259. 259.

    jk

    When it comes to Republicans, Biden is hopelessly naive.  He claims they’ll have an epiphany once Trump leaves office.  Where was Joe when McConnell and his fellow Republicans were busy fighting Obama every single day on every issue?

    Given their ages, I huge reservations that Biden or Sanders could make it through 4 years in office.  This isn’t simply a matter of will they live out their term.  One also has to consider the possibility of dementia.

    If Biden is the nominee he needs to take public speaking lessons from Greta Thunberg because his communication skills are atrocious.  If Biden is nominated, get ready for clarifications being issued every other day from his staff to clean up his gaffes.

  265. 265.

    Steeplejack

    @jk:

    If Biden is nominated, get ready for clarifications being issued every other day from his staff to clean up his gaffes.

    I think Trump has neutralized that issue.

  266. 266.

    clay

    @Brachiator:

    Biden seemed to indicate that the VP job would be his last political contribution, after a long career.  He was ready to call it a day, and could see the end of his political contribution. He seems to have gone back on that promise.  It might not just be ambition, maybe he thinks he is the better candidate, and that he is what the country needs.

    I think Biden truly intended to fade from public life because he, like everyone else, thought Hillary would win.  I think he feels somewhat guilty about Trump’s victory because he thinks that if he had run in 2016, he would have won. (This is likely true!)

    So I think he’s running this year to try to make amends, and course correct the nation before he can finally retire.

  267. 267.

    Ruckus

    @sab:

    I went to school with a girl who had polio. I had 2 friends moms who had polio. In my senior apt building there is a woman my age who has polio. Yes it takes a unimaginable toll on it’s victims.

    Didn’t know that about moscow mitch but I agree, that he’s lived with this and fucks over so many people makes me despise him far more.

  268. 268.

    Eljai

    @Raven Onthill: I am a woman and an enthusiastic Warren supporter. If Biden gets the nomination then I will enthusiastically vote for him along with every other person running with a D after their name because I’m fighting for our future and I fucking hate the fascists.

  270. 270.

    PJ

    @Bupalos: The next Trump is Don Jr.  He is also a moron.  This is a cult – if they reach outside the Trump family, the appeal dwindles.  Jared and Ivanka are a little smarter, but still stupid.

    Someone like Ted Cruz with a Republican Congress would be far more dangerous than Trump was in his first two years, because he is, for all his sociopathy, not a moron and sensitive to breaking laws, but he wouldn’t get elected, and certainly wouldn’t be acceptable to the Trump believers, because no one likes him.  Trump is a phenomenon 40 years in the making.  Nikki Haley or Tom Cotton, or whoever else is mean and cruel enough to appease the base, is just not going to cut it.

  272. 272.

    chris

    @zhena gogolia: prison for the rest, yes, but I’d like to see the entire Trump family crammed into a 3bed/1bath apartment in Norilsk with free wifi and a standard Russian state pension. Tough but fair I think.

  274. 274.

    sdhays

    @Bupalos: I think Biden is the candidate of the America that is so disturbed and frightened by Dump that they want the closest thing they can get to a sure thing. You can dispute whether Biden actually fits that description (I’ve been skeptical, but he hasn’t imploded the way I expected him to, so I’m starting to see it), but I think that’s the number one concern of his supporters.

    Biden worries me when he talks about Republicans coming to their senses and things like that, but I don’t think that his supporters are primarily backing him because they believe that. They just want someone who will win, and hopefully in a landslide.

  275. 275.

    Immanentize

    @Ruckus: My primary care doctor is originally from South Africa and he had polio.  Shortened body, deformed legs and feet.  But he went to med school and is one of the most empathetic men I have ever met.  Wicked smaht too.  Just goes to show that adversity can let character blossom or shrivel it into bitterness (add Texas Governor Greg Abbott in that pile too)

  279. 279.

    PJ

    @clay:  I think you are right.  Even before Beau got sick, he was hesitant about running in 2016 – family issues aside, I think he genuinely did not want to run for President again (though I think he wanted to be President, just not do the two years of campaigning) and considered it as much a matter of duty as of ego.

    Like anyone who runs for President, he has to have a massive ego to think that he should be the person to have that job, but I also think he believes he can beat Trump and it is his duty to do it.  If he isn’t the nominee, you can be sure he will be out actively campaigning for whoever is.

  280. 280.

    sdhays

    @clay: I think it’s definitely possible that Biden would have been, in retrospect, a stronger candidate against Dump than Hillary, but I honestly don’t believe he could have defeated Hillary in the Democratic primary and the fact that it was surely going to be at least an uphill battle for the nomination was a major reason he decided not to run.

  284. 284.

    Immanentize

    @jk: Did you ever consider the possibility that Biden keeps saying that Republicans will work with him not because he believes it, but because it polls better than any other position.  C’mon man, these guys and gals have the best fine tuned message people available.  He doesn’t have to believe it, but many Americans WANT to believe it and really like hearing it.

  292. 292.

    Brachiator

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    What promise?

    According to reports in Newsweek and elsewhere:

    Former Vice President and 2020 Democratic hopeful Joe Biden once promised that Barack Obama “would never have to worry” about him running for the White House, according to a report from The New York Times.

    During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama had gone back and forth over who to choose as his running mate. The final three picks included Biden, Indiana Senator Evan Bayh and Virginia Governor Tim Kaine.

    Obama’s top two strategists, David Plouffe and David Axelrod, traveled to meet all three candidates during the campaign. The two were worried about Biden’s inability to stop talking, which often results in verbal gaffes. But they were ultimately impressed by Biden’s insight into Senator John McCain, who was the Republican nominee, and his bond with his family.

    Plus, Biden promised that he would never try to usurp Obama by launching another presidential bid. The Delaware senator told the two aides that he was too old to make another run for the White House. He also said he viewed being vice president as a “capstone” to his long political career.

    “That was helpful,” Plouffe told the Times. Biden was apparently the only one of the three candidates to promise to never run for president.

    Emphasis added.

  293. 293.

    jk

    @WaterGirl:

    At what point during this campaign has Biden shown that he’s nimble or could think quick on his feet?

    From the moment he entered this race, the media has graded him on a curve.

    I seriously doubt that a woman of his age who demonstrated his level of incoherence would be leading the field.

  294. 294.

    sdhays

    @jk: Realizing that Biden is actually working around his stutter has put his occasional inarticulateness in a different light for me.

  295. 295.

    clay

    @sdhays: I don’t think he declined to run because he was scared of Hillary.  I think it was mostly his son Beau’s recent death — he just didn’t have it in him to run.

    But an alternative 2016 with Joe in the primary… who knows how that would’ve shaken out?  Way too many variables at play. For one thing, with TWO high-profile party favorites running, I’d bet that there would have been a lot of other candidates jumping in, because Hillary wouldn’t have been seen as inevitable.

    Which means, I think, that Bernie wouldn’t have gotten nearly as much traction since he wouldn’t be the “anti-Hillary”. Which means no “Wall Street speeches”, no “the primary is rigged against me”, etc.  Who knows, maybe Biden losing in the primary means Hillary actually does better in the general?  Impossible to say.

  297. 297.

    James E Powell

    @Immanentize:

    Did you ever consider the possibility that Biden keeps saying that Republicans will work with him not because he believes it, but because it polls better than any other position.

    I take it for granted that’s why he says it. Hillary said the same kind of things at times. For some reason (I know, I know, I know) Democrats have to talk like this or they get pilloried in the press/media. I just question whether it’s the message that Democratic voters want to hear. So far, it hasn’t killed him.

  298. 298.

    Aleta

    @sdhays: I wonder if debating at 9pm is  more challenging  for him than speaking at daytime functions.  Fatigue and time pressure are said to have an effect on fluency, including stuttering.

  299. 299.

    dww44

    @Barbara: I agree.  I’m not a Biden enthusiast and honestly he’s just too darn old.  To me, he’s aged lots since 2016 and I just wonder what 4 years as President will do.  Serving 2 terms is out of the question, much as it is with Sanders.  I suppose one could lump Warren (my favorite) in that group as they would all be older than Trump was at his inauguration. But Warren is sharp and energetic.

  300. 300.

    jk

    @sdhays:

    Beyond Biden’s public speaking, I think he’s demonstrated horrible judgement throughout his career – support for the Iraq war, support for the crime bill, his unforgivable treatment of Anita Hill, etc.

    I find the prospect of Biden or Sanders as  the nominee nauseating.

    For the good of the Democratic Party and the nation, Warren, Klobuchar, and Buttigieg should meet and cut a deal.  Two of them should withdraw and endorse the third candidate and God willing that candidate will beat Biden and Sanders and then beat Trump.

  302. 302.

    PJ

    @Brachiator: It’s kind of shocking that Evan Bayh was considered.  Maybe that was part of Obama’s many attempts to “reach across the aisle”, since Bayh was basically a Republican.

  303. 303.

    Brachiator

    @James E Powell:

    I take it for granted that’s why he says it. Hillary said the same kind of things at times. For some reason (I know, I know, I know) Democrats have to talk like this or they get pilloried in the press/media. I just question whether it’s the message that Democratic voters want to hear. So far, it hasn’t killed him.

    Biden tries to suggest that he is strong enough and savvy enough to try to bring back bipartisanship. And, as you note, so far selling this idea has not hurt him.

    I think that Newt Gingrich was the first to heavily push the lie that the GOP was the only legitimate political party in the United States.  And look where it got us.

    But the plain fact is that as long as you have multiple political parties, you have got to get them to work together on major issues.

    And the other plain fact is that the GOP and the Democrats have often worked together even when they presented themselves as implacable enemies for public consumption.

    But things got bad when the GOP freakin refused to work with Obama, and has sunk to where we are now under McConnell and Trump.

    Of course, along the way, the Republicans seemed to have squeezed out all their moderates.  And they have embraced lies and stupidity in order to secure power for themselves.  They have not earned the right of co-operation.  But ultimately, you have to deal with the Republicans you have, not the Republicans you wish you had.

  304. 304.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Getting back on one of my hobbyhorses– and I’ve got a stable of them: it doesn’t fucking matter a flying fuckdamn what Biden says about Republicans, or whether he believes it or he’s just saying it to appeal to voters who think of themselves as high-minded. President Biden will be as progressive as Congress, both branches, allows or compels him to be. This is also true of President Warren or President Sanders or President Klobuchar.

    Who do you think Mark Kelly and Babara Bollier and Sara Gideon and Doug Jones are most comfortable appearing on a literal and metaphorical platform with?

  305. 305.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @PJ:

    since Bayh was basically a Republican.

    If Bayh was “basically a Republican”, what were Mary Landrieu, Mark Pryor, Byron Dorgan, Kent Conrad, Blanche Lincoln, Ben Nelson, Tim Johnson, Bill Nelson, Claire McCaskill, Bob Casey and Jim Webb? And where was this “aisle”? I could include Joe Lieberman, but he was just a troll motivated (I believe) by personal spite as much as ideology, and Bobby Byrd, but he might well have been the most liberal one on the list by 2008

    ETA: Forgot Max Baucus, Jon Tester and the not-exactly flaming liberal Tom Carper

  308. 308.

    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon

    Joe Biden’s closing statement at the debate really spoke to me. I just gave him some dough. Go Joe!

    Here’s to November! I can’t wait to take down Trump and his Republican enablers.

  310. 310.

    Emma from FL

    @jk: Sure, why don’t they spite the effin’  we-are-black-and-vote-all-the-time bloc of the party. That would go over really well. Really white of you.

  311. 311.

    jk

    @Emma from FL:

    Biden is a very weak candidate with many vulnerabilities and Republican opposition researchers will rip to shreds. Nominate him and get ready for 4 more years of Trump in the White House.

  312. 312.

    Emma from FL

    @jk: Is that why the President and his goons have been so desperately trying to pre-emptively strike? The idiocy that led to the impeachment shows that Biden’s the one they are afraid of.

    And really, if your scheme comes to fruition you’re more likely to have African-Americans sit it out. And then what?

  313. 313.

    Raven Onthill

    @Emma from FL: sure. Here’s a discussion of the times Biden has tried to cut social security: https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/05/17/joe-biden-has-called-for-social-security-cuts-3-ti.aspx.
    Biden in 1995: “For example, I’m going to go on record. I’m up for reelection this year, and I’m going to remind everybody what I did at home, which is going to cost me politically. When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security, as well. I meant Medicare and Medicaid. I meant veterans’ benefits. I meant every single solitary thing in the government. And I not only tried it once — I tried it twice, I tried it a third time, and I tried it a fourth time. Somebody has to tell me in here how we’re going to do this hard work without dealing with any of those sacred cows, some deserving more protection than others.” –
    https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/06/21/3-presidential-candidates-who-previously-broke-fro.aspx.

    This isn’t crankery. He really said it. He also is responsible for the bankruptcy law changes that made 2008 so much worse. (And Warren opposed him at the time. They are old enemies.)

  314. 314.

    Raven Onthill

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: maybe so, but I’m right about this. Here’s something on Biden, Warren, and bankruptcy:

    Warren’s quarrel with Biden isn’t personal. It’s about a 2005 bankruptcy bill he supported as a senator. Warren opposed the bill so vehemently that its passage inspired her transition from a Harvard bankruptcy law professor, who studied middle-class economics, to a senator and now a presidential hopeful. – https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/5/6/18518381/baccpa-bankruptcy-bill-2005-biden-warren

    He’s pretty much as awful as I say he is, and the only reason he’s going anywhere is that policy isn’t something most voters think about.
    Seriously, guy, you know I bring receipts. Ask first, before calling names.

  315. 315.

    Richard Guhl

    @MattF:  In the 2008 primary, Hillary walloped Obama in West Virginia. In 2012, a white male and convicted felon garnered 40% of the primary voters in West Virginia against the sitting blackity, black President. In 2016, Sanders walloped Hillary in the same West Virginia primary.
    The equation is simple white person> black person, white male>white female.

  317. 317.

    low-tech cyclist

    If these were normal times apart from Trump, I’d be good with a Biden restoration.

    But they aren’t.  We need to move swiftly on democracy restoration in multiple ways. We need to move swiftly and massively to respond to global warming. And it would be nice if we could do stuff that makes a real difference in people’s lives, so that we don’t get blown off the map in 2022 like we did in 2010 and 1994.

    But none of this will get done by a President who isn’t interested in pressing a hopefully Dem-controlled Senate to kill the filibuster, but rather expects to be able to negotiate with Mitch McConnell to pass needed legislation.

    Mitch and the GOP aren’t going to work with us on climate change. Nor on increasing the minimum wage.  Nor on making it easier for unions to organize workplaces.  Nor on voting rights or anti-gerrymandering. Nor on undoing the damage that Trump’s done to the courts these past few years.  Nor on DC (and possibly PR) statehood. Nor on reining in gun violence.

    Mitch and the GOP will work with Biden on some token things.  Maybe increased funding for Alzheimer’s research or something noncontroversial like that.  But to attack major problems that the GOP has helped create? [Insert bitter laughter here.]

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