Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Books are my comfort food!

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

The fight for our country is always worth it. ~Kamala Harris

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Fight them, without becoming them!

“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

In my day, never was longer.

Also, are you sure you want people to rate your comments?

People are complicated. Love is not.

He really is that stupid.

You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment / Impeachment Trial Live – January 21, 2020

Reader Interactions

116Comments

  2. 2.

    EriktheRed

    We’re less than a year to inaugurating a Democratic President.

     

    Assumes facts not in evidence

  4. 4.

    BGinCHI

    Will the GOP pay a political price for a corrupt, law-breaking President and a complicit response?

    That’s the question, fundamentally.

    They have a majority in the Senate and can do all the bullshit they want. How all this affects the next election is the ballgame.

  5. 5.

    zhena gogolia

    @BGinCHI:

    I guess we have to channel our anger into action.

    My only cheering thought is that the impeachment slowed him down and wounded him, like a raging rogue elephant.

  8. 8.

    debbie

    I didn’t make it past 10 minutes listening to McConnell’s denture-impaired smugness and instead am listening to some Telemann. It was working very well until I read Aleta’s post from this morning with Juan Cole’s remarks about Dershowitz’s “degrees of civilianity.” An alleged member of the Jewish faith speaking as calculatingly as Goebbels! I am destined to be very angry today.

  11. 11.

    jayjaybear

    @oatler.: Ugh! Husband had one of the morning shows on when he got up to go to work. I was laying in bed, involuntarily listening and occasionally screaming SHUT THE FUCK UP, YOU REPUBLICUNT SHILL! It wasn’t really a calm morning.

  13. 13.

    CaseyL

    Called my two Senators, Cantwell and Murray, who are definitely among the Good Ones.  First thanked them both for fighting the good fight against Trump and the GOP.  Suggested, in both calls, that Democrats do daily en masse press conferences to state the fact that Trump is an at-best unwitting and at worst entirely deliberate asset of an enemy, working to undermine the US; and that the GOP, in protecting him, is an accessory to that.

  15. 15.

    Librarian

    Well. at least Roberts didn’t put gold stripes on his robe like that vain jackass Rehnquist.

  16. 16.

    zhena gogolia

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I left messages for Romney and Collins. I’m now on hold for murkowski listening to martial music

    OMG, first “When Johnny Comes Marching Home,” now “The Caissons Go Rolling Along.” These people are all about cardboard patriotism, aren’t they? My God, my God.

  17. 17.

    germy

    Q: "Sen. Romney says he is satisfied with McConnell's resolution. Where are you going to get the votes?"

    Schumer: "Well, he either hasn't read it or he's gone along with this cover-up, which I hope that isn't true. We need four votes."https://t.co/H4re2VtUrS

    — Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) January 21, 2020

  19. 19.

    germy

    In other news:

    Federal prosecutors in Brazil on Tuesday charged Glenn Greenwald with cybercrimes for his role in the spreading of cellphone messages that have embarrassed prosecutors and tarnished the image of an anti-corruption task force. https://t.co/trkZP1uzev— Julia Davis (@JuliaDavisNews) January 21, 2020

  20. 20.

    MJS

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Seconded. The Eeyore-ing gets tiresome. What’s happening is bad enough without pretending November, 2018; Kentucky and Louisiana, 2019; 70% supporting witnesses; and 51% supporting Trump’s removal never happened.

  21. 21.

    zhena gogolia

    I actually talked to a staffer in Murkowski’s office who said she was going to make up her mind after hearing the opening statement. “She will be following the Bill Clinton procedures” or something like that. I’m sure that’s code for “Fuck you.”

  22. 22.

    JPL

    I turned it off.   I still wish the democratic senators would stand up and say this is bull shit and walk out

  26. 26.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @germy:

    As much as I dislike Greenwald, I can’t help but see this in a negative light, given who’s in power in Brazil

  27. 27.

    Baud

    @germy:

    In a 95-page criminal complaint, prosecutors say that The Intercept Brasil, the news organization Mr. Greenwald co-founded, did more than merely receive the hacked messages and oversee the publication of newsworthy information.

    Citing intercepted messages between Mr. Greenwald and the hackers, prosecutors say the journalist played a “clear role in facilitating the commission of a crime.”

    For instance, prosecutors contend that Mr. Greenwald encouraged the hackers to delete archives that had already been shared with The Intercept Brasil, in order to cover their tracks.

    Prosecutors also say that Mr. Greenwald was communicating with the hackers while they were actively monitoring private chats on Telegram, a messaging app.

    Brazil has a fascist government too, so I’ll root for injuries with this one.

  28. 28.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @MJS:

    Exactly. It’s not completely hopeless.

    Also, does anybody else think that Congressional leaders shouldn’t have complete control over the C-Span feeds?

  32. 32.

    Immanentize

    @germy: In other, other news:
    Sanders Apologizes for Surrogate’s Claim that Biden is Corrupt

    The opinion piece, published in The Guardian on Monday, was authored by Zephyr Teachout, a prominent law professor and former New York state attorney general candidate who endorsed Sanders early on in the 2016 election cycle and announced her support for his 2020 bid last month.

    She isn’t an official member of the Sanders campaign, but has stumped for him on the campaign trail. Her piece, which argues that “Biden has a big corruption problem and it makes him a weak candidate” was circulated Monday in a newsletter curated by Sanders campaign adviser David Sirota.

    It is who they are. Who he is.

  33. 33.

    debbie

    @Immanentize:

    B.S. from BS.

    By the way, I just saw your and G&T’s consensus that Dersh went nuts with 9/11. I disagree; he first became enamored of himself during the OJ trial.

  34. 34.

    Immanentize

    @Baud: This is the question I had when I saw it earlier — Did GG and the Intercept just publish stolen emails and messages (like the NYTimes) or did he direct or conspire with others to do the stealing (a la Wikileaks).  If the former, fuck Bolsanaro, and I will do all I can to support GG.  If the latter, I am on record saying the “reporters” in England who themselves stole voice mails of the rich and famous should do time.  But still, fuck Bolsanaro.

  36. 36.

    Immanentize

    @debbie: He was all about him before then — the whole Claus Von Bulow representation (early 1980s) was primarily a Dershowitz publicity event.

  39. 39.

    hitchhiker

    I just read that Romney is advising Democrats not to be outraged about everything, because in his opinion if everything is an outrage, then nothing is an outrage.

    I understand the point to be, “Just wait, suckers! If you think this is bad, you’re going to be really mad when you see what comes next.”

    Thanks, Mitt. We already know that.

  40. 40.

    germy

    @Immanentize:  In other, other, other news:

    Tony Perkins, president of the anti-gay religious lobbying group the Family Research Council, had his home destroyed by the massive flooding ravaging Southern Louisiana this week.

    Although no one wants to celebrate a person losing their home, the destruction of Perkins’ house isn’t without irony, considering that he’s claimed in the past that natural disasters are God’s way of punishing an increasingly gay-friendly world.

    Calling into his own radio show, Perkins described the flood as being of “biblical proportions,” adding that he and his family will have to live in a camper for 6 months until the damage is repaired.

    https://deadstate.org/guy-who-says-god-sends-natural-disasters-to-punish-gays-has-his-home-destroyed-in-a-natural-disaster/

  41. 41.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    @debbie:

    I don’t know. Stopped clocks are right at least twice a day. Greenwald is an arrogant ass, but I think Bolsonaro would love nothing more than to get rid of GG if he could and is taking his chance here. Did GG actually reveal wrongdoing among the anti-corruption task force?

  45. 45.

    catclub

    @zhena gogolia: “She will be following the Bill Clinton procedures” or something like that.

     

    McConnell is also claiming he is following them, except when its not quite convenient. I am glad Pelosi is calling him a liar for saying he would. No beating around the bush.

  49. 49.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Immanentize:

    If he did directly conspire, then he broke the law. Then again the question remains: do you trust the prosecutors and the police in Brazil?

  50. 50.

    Baud

    @JPL:

    Voting for Hillary is a precondition for being a decent person. It does not demonstrate decency when there is other evidence to the contrary.

  53. 53.

    Baud

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    The excerpt I quoted has two allegations. The first, if true, seems illegal. The second does not. Of course, both allegations are being paraphrased by the NYT and are not the actual allegations.

  54. 54.

    Bill Arnold

    @Another Scott:

    McConnell backs off the 12-hour argument days.

    Interesting. But the 12 hour days, with no (bathroom or meals) break, 1:00 PM to 1:00 AM format was not in any universe a reasonable ask. (OK maybe for young soldiers in basic training. Not for older senators. Probably not even for M. McConnell. )
    So if he tries to spin this as compromise, he will be (is?) absolutely, totally full of shit. I would have walked out of a car dealership if they made an first move analogous to that, loudly complaining to the floor manager and anyone within earshot.

  56. 56.

    Sloane Ranger

    Adam Schiff is making a very strong opening argument. I see Moscow Mitch has already made changes to his proposed procedures.

  59. 59.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Now misrepresenting the Mueller Report.

    I keep thinking back, over these weeks, to what we used to say about Lyndon Johnson.
    – How do you know when he’s lying?
    – When his lips are moving
    Back then, I thought that was excessive. But it’s all too accurate now for pretty much anyone with an (R) after their name.

  61. 61.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Baud:

    I think the paraphrasing is close enough, isn’t it?

    As you said, they’re only allegations at this point.

    Re-reading your comment, I can see you meant that you wanted the Brazilian government to get egg on it’s face too.

    @germy:

    @Immanentize:

    I feel exactly the same way

  63. 63.

    Fleeting Expletive

    Just a hypothetical, but after this trial is over, if worse comes to worse, what if Senate Dems were to introduce a resolution that would make Republicans individually vote to validate and affirm every fucking rotten thing this admin has done? Like, call it The Glorious Path of Maximum Pressure through Shock and Awe, or the We Support Everything Our Fearless Leader Can Think Of in Perpetuity Act, or Climate change is a Hoax Act and make Republicans put their precious majority votes on the record supporting them.

    The on the record votes currently underway on impeachment kind of serve the same purpose, in that conscience and shame are still appropriate appeals from the Democratic side.  It’s so disheartening that so many are knaves and fools.

  64. 64.

    Kay

    I think the trial doesn’t bother me as much as you-all since I think we’re gonna win the election. I do! Policy and ideology and criminality aside these people just suck as people.

    I know many of you are superstitious but since I’m not I don’t have to worry about “jinxing” things :)

    The magic of jinxing is only operative if you’re a believer.

  65. 65.

    Rommie

    This is basically calling the House Managers traitors that need to be punished after this business is settled.  This isn’t going to end well, and I had dim hopes to start with.

  67. 67.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Now misrepresenting the Mueller Report.

    I wonder how Robert Mueller feels about all of this? Is he unable to comment publicly about this? Or is he still a loyal Republican?

  68. 68.

    Kay

    There are some charming criminals. You get to know them, they have some good qualities. You think “you could have made an honest living!”

    Not here. These people are otherwise unemployable.

  69. 69.

    J R in WV

     

    NBC/MSNBC have carried the video and audio feed uninterrupted so far, although we lost our over the air NBC broadcast, when I shifted to MSNBC audio feed. Schiff did a good job.

    Republican lawyers are now lying about how grand juries work, how the House wanted to function, lying about everything…

  70. 70.

    Kay

    michaelscherer
    @michaelscherer
    · 3h
    New: Mike Bloomberg shifts presidential ad campaign to focus on impeachment. Message will go into states with vulnerable GOP senators like Arizona, Maine, Colorado and N.C.

    I don’t know if it works but it’s delightful because it drives Trump crazy.

  71. 71.

    dww44

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):  Yes, I appreciate Cheryl’s positivity.  That’s the only way we can win. Succumbing to the negativity is not going to bend the arc towards justice. We keep the focus on the complicity of the GOP Senate in supporting Trump.  Then we win next November.

  75. 75.

    Juju

    @Kay: I agree 100%. As you have pointed out numerous times garbage people make garbage choices in hiring people. All who come in contact with Trump end up being charmless garbage. The people raised by Trump typically have an extra layer of charmless slime oozing about the garbage.

  76. 76.

    WaterGirl

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thanks for the note that Adam Schiff had started speaking.  I was able to catch him almost from the beginning.

    He really is terrific, and kudos to Nancy Pelosi for spotting talent, grooming him, and helping to put him in the position he holds today.

    I couldn’t even listen to a full 2 minutes of the lying liar who lies, aka the president’s lawyer who started speaking next.

    Then I watched Now This on twitter.  (everyone should watch it)

    I felt so angry after watching that that when my conservative evangelical sister texted me right afterwards to ask if I am feeling better after being under the weather, I answered “yes”.  when she replied that this is not a very cheery time of year, I wrote this:

    That is true.  And watching our constitution be shredded by people who don’t care about the rule of law because they love power more than they love our country is very depressing.  We need to have a fair trial and let the chips fall where they may.

    That is not going to go over well.  It was in total violation of our “we don’t talk about politics” rule of thumb.

    Looks like it’s time for me to run a couple of errands and try to cool off.

  78. 78.

    JPL

    @WaterGirl: Good..    If she is upset, mention this is how hitler became who he was.  You are not accusing him of mass murder but he is demagogue who needs to be stopped.

     

    good job

  79. 79.

    Kay

    @Juju:

    Pelosi delivered it to the GOP and they are, of course, desperately protecting these awful people because the more that comes out the worse it is for them. But they can’t avoid an election and they’re not going to get any better between now and November. They always get worse.

  81. 81.

    Wakeshift

    I note that Sekulow and then Cipolline wasted no time embodying the “pound the table” clause of the “When the facts are on your side…” dictum.

     

    Tried to count the logical fallacies in their statements and failed utterly, but they seemed intent on full coverage.

  84. 84.

    Fair Economist

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Did GG actually reveal wrongdoing among the anti-corruption task force?

    Very much so. The judge leading the whole project, and making the rulings, said in some of the revealed messages that the entire project was just a show to attack Rousseff and da Silva, the left party leaders.

  86. 86.

    Wakeshift

    Schiff back up to address Schumer’s amendment; begins by eviscerating Defense’s lack of defense.

    He is outstanding.

  88. 88.

    satby

    Jim Wright at Stonekettle Station.

    They know he’s guilty. They know it. And thus, they have no intention of putting country over party. No intention of an actual trial.

    No, they intend to put on a show.

    Because they know Trump’s guilt doesn’t matter.

    The truth doesn’t matter.

    Duty doesn’t matter.

    Facts do not matter.

    The integrity of the Office and of The Republic does not matter.

    All that matters is the spectacle. Win that, and you win the debate.

  90. 90.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    Also, does anybody else think that Congressional leaders shouldn’t have complete control over the C-Span feeds?

    Personally, I think Congress shouldn’t have any control over the C-SPAN feeds. First Afuckingmendment.

  93. 93.

    Juju

    @Kay: I agree, and that doesn’t matter with Trump’s base, it’s just a matter of how many gullible people in some swing states can be swayed to vote for Trump again.  My guess is not as many as before.

  95. 95.

    MazeDancer

    Don’t care if he”s a white guy, Adam Schiff for Veep.

    He smoked those lying stunt lawyers

  98. 98.

    Barbara

    @Immanentize: The Guardian’s consistently gullible coverage of Sanders is why I have trouble sending it money.  IMO, they view him through the lens of the Labour Party in the UK without a lot of thought about how differently U.S. politcal parties and the U.S. political system are.

  100. 100.

    Wakeshift

    @Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ:

     

    Rep Lofgren is speaking to the necessity of receiving subpoenaed WH documents, which is the purpose of Schumer’s amendment.

    she is doing so in a way that uses the 1-hr time block to present/augment the core case broadly, as well as supporting the amendment in particular.

    The house managers seem to be taking the approach that they will use all available procedural time to make the case, knowing that McConnell will seek to limit or obstruct them at all times.

    Seems realistic and smart.

  101. 101.

    Citizen Alan

    @Barbara: And also without acknowledging that Labour just self-destructed under the leadership of the man viewed (fairly or not) as the British Bernie Sanders.

  103. 103.

    Wakeshift

    Philbin, and apparently the entire defense strategy:

    We can’t defend the indefensible, so we’ll attack the prosecution and the process. Why didn’t House Dems get the evidence we actively hid from them? Invalid!

  105. 105.

    smintheus

    When did Democrats admit that they lacked evidence to convict Trump, or that they had no case? I must have missed that.

    Not being a lawyer, I’m also unfamiliar with the Republicans’ principle that testimony and other evidence should not be presented during a trial, otherwise the judge should sanction you.

  106. 106.

    wvng

    Really impressed by the House Managers. They are certainly laying out a case that republicans will not be able to contest on the facts, but if facts mattered they would just stop now and vote to convict.  And wouldn’t that be a good joke on Trump!

  107. 107.

    Wakeshift

    @wvng:

    Defense is basing its case on an entirely separate (meaning imaginary) set of facts. The history of the process they’re discussing only took place in Fox News coverage. It’s an interesting strategy, impressive in their diabolical commitment to a consistent fiction.

  109. 109.

    Wakeshift

    Vote to kill the amendment to subpoena WH documents:

    Y 53

    N 47

    Rs kill it

     

    Schumer introduces amendment to subpoena documents from State Dept.

    Round 2: Fight!

  113. 113.

    Wakeshift

    Another interesting contrast:

    both prosecution and defense came prepared with message, strategy, talking points, etc.

    but the House Managers are also flexible and adapting to the arguments of the defense, who cannot deviate from the script.

    its odd to watch them repeat statements that were just dissected minutes earlier, like they stop listening whenever a Democrat speaks.

    Deming is passionate, and driving ahead with the narrative in this next block.

    there is clear and effective coordination with Schumer; Schiff et al came prepared to use each amendment debate segment to advance the case as well as demonstrate the willful blindness of the R senators. I know they are shameless (sinverguenza was it?) but hopefully not all viewers are.

    The Senate itself is on trial – exactly right

  114. 114.

    Wakeshift

    Cipollone:

    ”we’re not interested in hearing any facts. Why didn’t the house do the thing the WH blocked?!”

    Sekulow:

    ”here’s what those people testified, and you need to ignore all the stuff that contradicts it. You’re not allowed to think or decide for yourselves, here’s the correct way to think.”

    <Scary Stuff! Aaaaahhh!>

     

    alright, I’m done. I can’t listen any more.

    Lurker penance fulfilled for now, done live-spamming the thread. Thanks all

  115. 115.

    Skepticat

    During the Watergate hearings, I worked in a television station and thus watched them all day long. I’ll never forget Alexander Butterfield rather casually dropping the bomb about the tapes. Of course, this never went to impeachment. During the Clinton debacle, I didn’t have access to a TV, was working long hours, and thought it was so aggravating that I didn’t want to dignify it by paying that much attention. Now I have neither electricity, a television, the time, nor the stomach or mental fortitude to watch the Rethuglicans brazenly and without apology destroy democracy. Even thinking or reading about the run-up is enough to make me profoundly sick and angry. My senators used to be Bill Cohen and George Mitchell, back in the days when I had faith in my country and its institutions. I still respect Angus King, but now I waste pixels on Susan Collins and know I might as well not bother. I fear the outcome of this charade, as I think it’s predetermined. Wake me when it—and our country—are over.

  116. 116.

    WaterGirl

    @Skepticat: As it is, I am struggling with this.  If I were in your shoes, I think it would put me over the edge.  Which just goes to show that you must be a tougher person than I am.

    Keep hanging in there, and we’ll try to keep the shitshow from winning again in November.

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