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You are here: Home / Politics / Impeachment Inquiry / Impeachment Hearings / Senate Impeachment Open Thread: Snapshots from Day One

Senate Impeachment Open Thread: Snapshots from Day One

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The Washington Post has a full spread of reports across the top of its webpage. If you haven’t subscribed yet, this would be a good time:

The first substantive day of President Trump’s impeachment trial opened Tuesday with unexpected internal GOP dissension over its structure, as Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) was forced to revise his proposed rules at the last minute to accommodate a brewing rebellion in his ranks.

That abrupt reversal from Senate leadership began a deeply acrimonious day in the chamber, which dramatically escalated in its final hours when the House managers and the president’s attorneys engaged in language considered so toxic for the staid Senate that Chief Justice John Roberts, who is presiding over the trial, admonished both sides.

In the end, the final parameters of the third impeachment trial of a U.S. president was approved on strictly partisan lines, but the measure passed only after revisions that allowed both sides more time to present their cases, and for findings from the House impeachment probe to be automatically entered into evidence as part of the trial…

Now, both the Democratic impeachment managers and Trump’s defense team will have up to three days each to make their case, and evidence from the House will be entered automatically unless there is an objection. The changes were so last-minute that there were handwritten scribbles in the legislation marking the revisions.

The White House had initially requested condensing the opening arguments into two days for each side, according to several people familiar with the drafting. One senior administration official said it had done so while cautioning that the language could change depending on the needs of Trump and various senators, and that the number of days for opening arguments was a lower priority for the White House…

In a sign of fatigue, at least on the GOP side, McConnell (R-Ky.) halted the trial proceedings shortly before 9:30 p.m. in a bid to negotiate an end to the hours-long debate that seemed destined to go on for much longer. But after a brief recess that allowed for senators to talk, the two sides did not reach a deal to speed things up…

The Oval Office Occupant wants to trumpet his ‘exoneration’ at his State of the Union address in early February. His handlers are terrified that the longer the proceedings run, the more chance he’ll say something so disqualifying, there won’t be a State of the Union speech this year.


Reader Interactions

74Comments

  1. 1.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    *sigh*

    Twitter Greenwald fans don’t like it when you say mean things about Greenwald. Seems like they swarm complained and I lost another twitter account.

    To badly paraphrase Niemoller:

    ”After they came after the meek, the oppressed and the good, they came after Glenn,

    And I was like all ‘fuck that guy, this is the world he helped build and he deserves the pain….’”

  2. 2.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    pundits were criticizing Pelosi for delay,

    It’s telling how the pundits were attacking Pelosi for delaying but the very same pundits had no problem with McConnell delaying Scalia’s replacement for a full year.

     

    From time to time, bloggers will complain that Dems don’t break the rules in their favor the way repukes do, but this is largely due to the corporate media undermining Dems at every turn, while at they same time offering full support and protection to the repuks, no matter how low they go.

  7. 7.

    Matt McIrvin

    There’s been lots of, “I don’t like or agree with Greenwald but this is terrible,” and now his fans are getting upset about the fact that people feel compelled to use the prefatory disclaimers. Only unadulterated love of Glenn is acceptable.

  13. 13.

    Montanareddog

    I only watched the opening statements from Schiff, Sekulow and Cipollone. Schiff’s was astonishingly impressive; the other two – a Gish Gallop of lies and irrelevancies and misdirection. Kay is right; Trump’s hires are bad at their jobs.

  14. 14.

    Bruuuuce

    So while the Democrats are making the case that this trial is a sham and a coverup, the Republicans are doing what they do best: tone policing and scolding. And Chief Justice Roberts, to appear fair and neutral, scolded  both sides for their lack of decorum while utterly failing to reprimand the Rs for doing what should be his job, if it needs to be done (which it did not).

    This is going to be a very long, sad, farcical week

  15. 15.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Baud:

    To be fair, my suspension  comment was harsh, but still not as bad as Trump:

    No, I’m OK with it. He helped build this world by actively tearing down the liberal international order, and I hope he’s beaten with garden hoses while hanging by his heels.

  16. 16.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Giving evidence at a military commission on Guantánamo Bay, James Mitchell gave a detailed account of the 2002 decision to interrogate suspected al-Qaida leaders using waterboarding and other techniques which the US later admitted constituted torture.
    ……………………

    In testimony which veered from the gruff to jokey to tearful, Mitchell said the methods he had recommended were based on a course given to US armed services to help them withstand enemy interrogation, known as Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE). The measures, which included slamming detainees repeatedly against a wooden wall, cramming them in a small box sometimes with insects, and waterboarding, simulated drowning, had been approved by the justice department in July 2002 under the George W Bush administration. Mitchell claimed those measures were within the limits of what was legal, and were designed to force detainees to give up information rapidly that could help prevent a further attack, possibly involving a nuclear weapon.

    “The CIA was never interested in prosecution,” he told the court. “They were going to go right up to the line of what was legal, put their toes on it, and lean forward.”

    Mitchell, who was recruited by the CIA in 2002 to first observe and then apply coercive measures, said the agency was determined to “get tough” and he wanted to make sure it was done within limits.

    “What I was told was: ‘The gloves were off’,” Mitchell, now aged 68, a tall, thin man with a trimmed white beard, dressed in a charcoal suit and red tie. “They were going to use some form of physical coercion … My concern was that they were going to make it up on the fly.”

    Mitchell has accused other CIA interrogators of using waterboarding far in excess of guidelines as well as other unauthorised interrogation techniques. In court on Tuesday he described these excesses as “abusive drift”.

    “When people are left to make up coercive measures, it tends to escalate over time,” Mitchell said. “They dehumanise the detainees. They think they are justified in using a higher level of pressure. They think: If a little is good, a lot is better.”

    He said he had tried to stop several interrogations that had got out of hand, in particular by the head of CIA interrogations of the CIA’s newly formed rendition, detention and interrogation group, an unnamed officer he referred to by the nickname, the “new sheriff”.

    “The agency had not approved the techniques he was using,” Mitchell said. He described the approach underlying the abuses as: “Hurt the person until they tell you what you want to know and then you hurt them some more, to find out if they are lying to you.”

    See? He was one of the good guys.

    “I felt my moral obligation to protect American lives outweighed the temporary discomfort of terrorists who had taken up arms against America.”

    Moral obligation, Temporary discomfort… This is the language of war criminals.

  17. 17.

    Butter Emails

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:

    From time to time, bloggers will complain that Dems don’t break the rules in their favor the way repukes do, but this is largely due to the corporate media undermining Dems at every turn, while at they same time offering full support and protection to the repuks, no matter how low they go.

    Democrats can’t do what Republicans do because they’ll actually get called out on it and taken to the mat by the press. Think Hillary’s emails vs. the Trump administration’s email practices.

  21. 21.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    I’ll add this – people’s email accounts are equivalent to the basket of opened mail you keep on your kitchen counter. The sorts of “l33t haX0rs” that assholes like Greenwald and Assange assist, facilitate, coddle and encourage in reaching into third party communications are doing the equivalent of “black bag” jobs in breaking into homes and stealing documents. That isn’t journalism and isn’t whistleblowing – it’s a crime.

  22. 22.

    germy

    The Washington Post (and my own local paper) made it front page news that Roberts “admonished both sides” for their behavior.  Because Nadler said the president’s lawyers were telling lies.  But they were.  Under oath.  How is this a “both sides” issue?

    "A lawyer does not stand in front of the chief justice of the Supreme Court and lie. And Cipollone said the following: 'Not even Mr. Schiff's Republican colleagues were allowed into the SCIF.' That is a flat lie. A demonstrable lie." — @clairecmc pic.twitter.com/Bqdlzwu6Pf— Stephanie Kennedy (@WordswithSteph) January 21, 2020

  24. 24.

    Bruuuuce

    @germy: Roberts is either spineless, complicit, or both in this farce. His only concern is appearing fair and impartial even while he steps on the House case at every opportunity

  26. 26.

    Chyron HR

    Shorter GG: “NOOOO I only wanted the rest of the world to be ground under the boot of fascist oppression!”

  27. 27.

    p.a.

    • The rethug ‘defense’ was to provide soundbites for hate media, since trump has pretty much self-impeached and self-convicted simply with his public statements, at least for any honest judges.

    22 senators are in their 70’s, 5 are in their 80’s

    I guess I’m abt to engage in ageism, but: jeeze!  (I’m 60.5)  Honestly never been able to come to a decision on term limits as I think both sides have legit arguments, and it’s all entwined with related issues like the advantages of incumbency, Citizens fucking United electoral hacking,  bps (billionaire politician syndrome), and even population trends like the extension of health and well being into old age.

  28. 28.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Bruuuuce:

    I vote “spineless exemplar of the mediocrity endemic in the Federal judiciary”.

    He’ll “both sides” it and retreat into the appearance of process and delay before patting himself on the back about his great and sage wisdom in justicing.

  29. 29.

    germy

    Anyone keeping count of how many times Pat Cipolline and Jay Sekulow have lied today, so we know how many false statements charges they'll face once President Warren's AG is confirmed?
    — emptywheel (@emptywheel) January 22, 2020

  30. 30.

    Baud

    I wonder if there’s even a single tweet by civil libertarian Greenwald defending Hillary against all the false crimes she was accused of.

  31. 31.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Chyron HR:

    Yup. I’m so stealing that.

    My tweak, though, would be to add “white nationalist” in there – Glenn has been as curious about that as Milo ever since his interactions with Gluteus Maximus.

  32. 32.

    germy

    On day one of my presidency, I will take aggressive steps to root out the corruption and incompetence of the Trump administration, starting by removing all political appointees, except those necessary to preserve continuity and protect national security.
    — Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) January 21, 2020

  33. 33.

    Quinerly

    Good morning from the newly refurbished, beautiful Castenada Hotel (an old Fred Harvey Hotel, been following on line the restoration process for 5 years) in Las Vegas, New Mexico! Great day yesterday. Arrived driving from Tulsa just before the wintery mix hit. Breakfast at Charlie’s Spic and Span. Bopped around town a bit hitting some galleries and antique shops. (Check out Tito’s Gallery and Rough Riders Antiques if ever in this sweet little town). La Cumbre Elevated IPAs at Byron T’s Saloon and dinner at the newest Range Cafe inside the old Plaza Hotel with a friend who took the train in from Lamy with her dog (Wildhorse Harry… first doggie snuggling for me in 2 weeks ??). Hopping the train to Winslow early afternoon today. I went an entire day politics free which is a first for me for many years, and I’ll catch up on the train. Life be good. Happy belated birthdays to all those jackals on yesterday’s thread. Thanks for all the kind comments and interest in my journey. Have a great day, jackals!

  35. 35.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Baud:

    Sadly, the Juice has no handy animated gif showing groups of people guffawing….

  39. 39.

    SectionH

    @Quinerly: Las Vegas? The cool one? My Mom went to Highlands there a Very Long Time Ago  (just pre-WW2)- I had to go there in the early ’80s just to see, It was kind of sad then – so happy to see it’s getting some love!

  40. 40.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @p.a.:

    The problem with the overrepresentation of the old in politics and the economy is resistance to social and economic change – a lot of ossification comes into play.  Add to that a generational selfishness and the fact that they’re not going to have to live long term under the conditions they impose, and you have a toxic brew that tests legitimacy.

  41. 41.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Add to that a generational selfishness and the fact that they’re not going to have to live long term under the conditions they impose, and you have a toxic brew that tests legitimacy.

    Yeah but the fly in the ointment of that reasoning is that outlawing the Republican party would probably run into constitutional roadblocks.

  43. 43.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Yup. You should have a longer term stake in the policies you’re proposing.

    The biggest lie foisted by human culture is that the elderly are somehow all a bunch of wise sages. In my life, they’ve generally  been mentally lazy, bigoted dolts.

  44. 44.

    SectionH

    So, first time No Edit (guess it would be 3 inna row)

    anyway, Quinerly – STL-Tulsa-NM in 2 days? You are Iron Woman! (And I type as woman who’s

    driven SAN-LEX with added LEX-SAN since October.) But I know from those legs.

    Hint – way home? US 70/60 through Clovis etc to Amarillo. Much less 40.

  46. 46.

    Dog Mom

    @Quinerly: Congrats on the puppy snuggles and have a great trip!  I have been cleaning out dog gear and supplies – but still keeping what I will need for future pup.  I can’t believe how much I had acquired in 22 years of having dogs.  A co-worker is transporting a pup for a leg of a cross country reunion with her owner – so I gave a doggy jacket and a few treats for the pup.  On Saturday, I picked up Dottie’s ashes at the vet – felt horrible, but donated a bunch of stuff for their associated rescue group.

  48. 48.

    Quinerly

    @SectionH: Thanks for piping in! Out here for 6 weeks with a return on a Northern route after leaving Chinle, AZ or Farmington, NM. (depends if I wander over to Canyon de Chelly again) I have done the Clovis/Portales route a few years ago on the front end when hitting Roswell on a drive to Cloudcroft. Beautiful drive. Very different. The northern route coming into New Mexico by way of Clayton and Raton when heading to Taos is also beautiful with a much different feel. Certainly a study in contrasts! Have a wonderful day!

  51. 51.

    Quinerly

    @JPL: thanks! And it was National Squirrel Appreciation Day, I am told, and by luck we stayed in The Castenada’s “Squirrel Room!” Each room is named after an animal with a painted transom (Squirrel!) and a door placard. Our room was patterned after a room in Gallup’s El Navajo Hotel designed by Mary Colter in 1923. The Castenada is a work in progress, that’s for sure. Amazing to me that it sat vacant for 70 years but yet the floors and tin ceilings remained mostly in tact.

  52. 52.

    SectionH

    @Quinerly: LOL! I only went via Clayton back East once, and that’s a long story. Meade, KS… two flat tires in 2 days… And the one time I went through Cloudcroft is also kind of a long story. That one I have to srsly Thank a Dodge dealership in Sulpher Springs TX for.

  53. 53.

    Quinerly

    @Dog Mom: you are doing great. Stay focused and thanks for your kind words. I couldn’t bear to get Poco’s ashes before I left. They are holding them until my return in March.

  55. 55.

    Quinerly

    @SectionH: I love this little town. Been making visits here on and off since 2012. Speaking of Highlands.. Met the Department chair for the education department in the bar last night. Interesting woman originally from California. She loves it here.

  58. 58.

    Zinsky

    I don’t know how many Juicers caught the incredibly embarrassing malapropism that White House counsel Pat Cippoline got snagged in yesterday but what an embarrassment!  Some Democrat (Schiff, maybe) had said that the truth about this whole sordid affair is going to come out eventually, due to “FOIA lawsuits “.  Cippoline came to the mike and started railing about “lawyer lawsuits” and why there were so many of them.  My wife and I looked at each other, like, “WTF is he talking about”??  When your hotshot, $1,000 an hour fee lead lawyer doesn’t even know what the Freedom of Information Act is, I would say you have a weak team….

  59. 59.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Ohio has upper age limits for judges and it’s fine. They’re re-elected so reliably most of them age out. One of those “mysterious groups” behind ballot measures (the judges, probably) put a ballot measure up to get rid of the upper limit and it went down in flames. They can be “VJs” after they age out- visiting judges. It works well, particularly in the rural counties. There’s a pool of replacements to cover vacations and sick leaves and conflicts.

  60. 60.

    Ken

    I’m still expecting Trump to tweet a demand that the Senate allow witnesses so he can clear his name.  I can only imagine that his aides are keeping his unsecured cell phone locked up until after the trial.

  61. 61.

    Kay

    Weijia Jiang
    @weijia
    ·18m
    Trump said he would “love” to attend his Senate trial, sit in the front row, and “stare at their corrupt faces”. When I asked who was paying for his private lawyers—him or taxpayers—he smiled but did not answer.

    So he got exactly what he wanted from this exchange- he attacked his political rivals- repeated, verbatim, and he didn’t answer the question. Good job. This approach is working well. For Donald Trump.
    50 years he’s been beating them at their own game and they never switch it up even slightly. He could do it in his sleep.
    Thank God for the whistleblower, is all I can say.

  63. 63.

    randy khan

    I wonder if it’s occurred to Trump and McConnell that the Dems can coordinate what they do.  (Well, I’m sure it’s occurred to McConnell.)  Yesterday was a great example of that – they obviously planned out all of the amendments to give Schiff & co. a chance to lay out the key elements of the case and why the witnesses and documents were important.

  65. 65.

    EmbraceYourInnerCrone

    @Quinerly: Glad you are enjoying your trip, I have never been to New Mexico but may have to put it on the list of places I need to go see, it sounds beautiful.

  66. 66.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Kay: Yet Trump is off in Switzerland. Had plenty of confrontations with the Dems and they’ve been quite unimpressed.   Talk is cheep with that guy.

  67. 67.

    trnc

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Twitter Greenwald fans don’t like it when you say mean things about Greenwald. Seems like they swarm complained and I lost another twitter account.

    Curious – was that GG’s personal twitter account, or the Intercipt? I’d like to see Twitter add a user policy that says users with over X number of followers should be considered to have a public forum and should not block follower accounts just for disagreeing. They should have to show that the follower broke some existing twitter rule or was threatening, etc.

    I don’t have a twitter account, so this may be something most users don’t care about.

  68. 68.

    trnc

    @David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: It’s telling how the pundits were attacking Pelosi for delaying but the very same pundits had no problem with McConnell delaying Scalia’s replacement for a full year.

    Even aside from the IOKIYAR aspect, it’s infuriating because it was a reasonable expectation to ask the senate for some trial standards up front (even if it wasn’t the bad faith McConnell in charge) AND there was no point in delivering the articles over the holiday break. That’s on top of the fact that the defendant threw sand in the gears every step of the way during the inquiry.

  71. 71.

    J R in WV

    Northern New Mexico is so different from the desert like southern end of the state. And it is beautiful, both ends. We drove through Las Vegas NM n the way home one spring, and just north of town we rolled the F-350, bed full of tools and cargo, back seat full of puppies. Totaled the vehicle.

    The NM State Police were helpful, and an EMT was at the truck by the time we stopped bouncing…they were on their way to a ski slope, had their kit in the trunk, saw the whole thing. No serious injuries, though I wasn’t over my concussion for several weeks.

    A friend from Pueblo rented a PU truck and came to get us the next day, huge rescue. After we recovered somewhat staying with them for several days, we bought another truck to drive everything we saved back home.  In retrospect it may have been a better decision to rent a U-haul truck and a car to get home.

    Would like to stay in Las Vegas for a couple of days. We love the old western parts that are still around, old hotels, Rt 66 stops, etc. My aunt and uncle once owned the newspaper in Tecumcari NM if I recall correctly, this would have been in the early 1970s probably.

  73. 73.

    Captain C

    @germy: The difference, of course, is that Delta House was far more sympathetic than their opponents.  The opposite is true of the Republican stooges.  Also, the Democrats have a much more solid case than Dean Wormer, Marmalard, and the rest

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