Lamar Alexander has spoken in more detail of his decision to vote against calling impeachment witnesses and, presumably, to acquit Donald Trump.
“The Senate reflects the country, and the country is as divided as it has been for a long time. For the Senate to tear up the ballots in this election and say President Trump couldn’t be on it, the country probably wouldn’t accept that. It would just pour gasoline on cultural fires that are burning out there.”
So many assumptions in those three sentences.
A great many people can’t be on the ballots for the election. Not having enough money is one of the prime causes. Being under 35. Having been held back by color or gender so that the opportunity never arose. The country accepts all of those. But here is a man who has, as Alexander admits, badly abused his position as President already. Perhaps, yes, we should not allow him to do that again.
But Alexander makes such a decision sound arbitrary, as Trump supporters do. And he says it in a way that conflates the fallacious idea that impeachment is not firing for cause, but rather nullification of the election.
As to pouring gasoline on cultural fires, Alexander obviously hasn’t checked his name and variants trending on Twitter. It is only one sort of cultural fire that he is concerned with.
Alexander denies that Trump’s shaking down of Volodymyr Zelinsky qualifies as “treason, bribery, or a high crime and misdemeanor” as specified for impeachment in the Constitution. But soliciting something of value for money is indeed bribery in the general meaning of the term, inviting foreign influence into an American election is a crime, and it is hard to see how any of this is not a misuse of Presidential power. Unless you’re Lamar Alexander.
The article mentions Alexander’s admiration for Howard Baker, who conducted himself with dignity and honor through impeachment hearings for Richard Nixon. There is neither honor nor dignity in Alexander’s abasing himself to fit the Trumpian mold.
The bottom line:
“Whatever you think of his behavior,” Mr. Alexander said of Mr. Trump, “with the terrific economy, with conservative judges, with fewer regulations, you add in there an inappropriate call with the president of Ukraine, and you decide if your prefer him or Elizabeth Warren.”
The Best Laid Schemes o’ McConnell an’ Men Gang Aft Agley
Barbara
Impeachment doesn’t prevent Trump from being on the ballot again. Why are these people so stupid? Or why do they think we are so stupid? Never mind.
Kent
You mean if we impeach Trump then Elizabeth Warren assumes the presidency and not Pence?
cool. Sign me up then.
Sab
The American people didn’t vote for Trump. More of us voted for the other person. The Electoral College voted for Trump.
Lapassionara
@Barbara: it does prevent him from holding public office.
what a contemptible person Lamar Alexander is.
PsiFighter37
I hope Susan Collins still loses. What a complete turd she is – trying to have it all ways.
joel hanes
@Barbara:
Impeachment doesn’t prevent Trump from being on the ballot again.
Conviction and removal might. I think it depends on if that disqualification was written into the Articles of Impeachment.
MazeDancer
“You, sir, are no Howard Baker.”
What I tweeted Lamar. Being from Tennessee, I knew from where I spoke. Didn’t matter he never saw it. I felt better.
jl
Does Alexander think Elizabeth Warren is VP? In any case, that tweet gives the game away, they corrupted a constitutional process for narrow partisan gain. I hope every GOP Senator is asked if they agree with Alexander’s tweets.
I wonder if our corporate press media news celebs and pundits will ask the Senate GOPers about working with the other side, and whether they were being partisan. So far, most of that piffle opionizing on media news is essentially ragging on the Dems for being weak stinking losers.
And, we probably have another Warren scandal. Will voters ever be satisfied with her excuses for wrecking the Senate trial acquittal of Trump?
tokyokie
Gee, one sure as hell wouldn’t want to negate an electoral college vote that was heavily influenced by Russian ratfucking. But I’m sure Lamar is eagerly anticipating getting an entire chapter written about him in the next edition of Profiles in Cowardice.
Barbara
@Lapassionara: Okay. I have had it and my normal acuity is definitely taking a break tonight.
Nora
It really is a stupid argument.
Let’s say someone was legitimately elected president and then did something horrendous, something so terrible both parties recoiled from it and felt that anyone doing this couldn’t possibly be president. I’m not sure what that would be — killing and eating a baby in front of millions of people? — but assume there is such a thing, and the president did it.
Is his argument that you could never remove that president from office for what the president did in office because that would be the same thing as nullifying the election? Is that really the argument he’s trying to make?
Another Scott
I’ve given (several times) to Doug!’s Senate thermometer, but think it’s appropriate to give to the DSCC as well. We need to fight as a team, and for individuals.
Until we have public financing (and reverse Citizens United), politics requires money.
Donated.
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
I wonder how long it will be before the corporate media opinionizers will be openly salivating over the prospect of an absolute monarch presidency. The drama of the greatly increased palace intrigue will be very tempting to them. They have a well developed affection for and knowledge of drama of the exercise raw and implacable power, discipline and punishment, from their own mega-corporate careers. They can cover something that they really know.
My Side of Town
Get ready for announcement at SOTU if you are a democrat, you are an enemy of the state, if you are fake news, you are an enemy of the state. There will be no elections in 2020 and Republicans will cheer that their ultimate goals have been achieved. Hitler has returned. Get your guns out. We will be under martial law by November.
Nora
@tokyokie: I think that’s going to be an awfully long book. He might not rate a whole chapter, given the competition. Maybe a paragraph.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: The Republicans where blathering on about “overturning the election”, so I thought that means Hillary would become President.
My Side of Town
Republicans just voted for Imperial rule. Who could have guessed? Their election cheating was going nowhere.
Kay (not the front-pager)
This sounds like he believes that if witnesses were called they would have no choice but to impeach Trump. Combine this with Rubio saying “Just because actions meet a standard of impeachment does not mean it is in the best interest of the country to remove a President from office.” and it becomes clear that Republicans are not only not interested in protecting our constitutional democracy, they are actively working to undermine it.
This is naked. This is a finding of guilt, not just of Donald Trump but of all Republicans in the Senate.
Ivan X
So as I read this post and comments there is an ad at the top of my phone that says “‘Make liberals cry again.” I think that tells you all you need to know. I’m not trying to make Republicans cry, I just want fairness and decency. Apparently, at least some “Conservatives” (or Russians) want to make me cry.
My Side of Town
Republicans, who have been cheating in elections for decades, have now found a new hero at cheating in iTrump. Did you expect anything else?
smintheus
It’s the Republicans who are taking Trump’s name off of ballots – by cancelling GOP primaries to protect him from challengers.
Steeplejack (phone)
Alexander’s bottom line: complete partisan hackery.
jl
@Kay (not the front-pager):
Basically, ‘Protecting our partisan political interests is more important than preserving the Constitution’ is the bottom line. Something like that will fit into a short attack ad, though I leave the precise wordsmithing to the experts.
grumbles
This shitbag thinks he sounds so reasonable. Of course if he were reading these words, he’d completely write them off as partisan sniping, while completely failing to recognize the inherent partisanship in his of out-the-door fuck-you.
Lamar is not fit to lick Baker’s boots, so it makes sense that he’s licking Trump’s anus instead.
Jeffro
Lamar, this is pretty bottom-feeder RWNJ-think: the president* has been delivering for Republicans; therefore, I’m going to give him a pass on his obviously criminal behavior.
IOKIYAR, delivered by what passes for a GOP ‘statesman’ these days.
Frankly, nothing to see here, folks. Just ol’ Lamar and Republicans casting about for excuses to not honor their oaths.
Another Scott
No matter who you support in the primaries, I hope we can agree with SPW here.
Well said.
Cheers,
Scott.
The Dangerman
Does he know what will REALLY pour gasoline on cultural fires burning out there? It’s to admit that Donald J. Trump broke the law (which he apparently does) and then does jackshit about it. No conviction. No censure. Not even so much as sending him to bed with a single scoop of ice cream instead of 2.
Fuck, I just realized, this HAS to be a parody account comment of the Senator, right? It can’t be real. If it’s real, he should resign and then go DIAF (hope that doesn’t violate too many rules of civility).
Jeffro
Petri’s column today was so-spot on: we can’t have an election in 2020! That would overturn the results of the 2016 election!!
(LOL and also not LOL)
It really was the wingnuts’ dream election, and trumpov sure has turned out to be everything the hard n’ kooky Right ever dreamed of in a president*.
I’m looking forward to the House drafting additional charges on Thursdays, just to send him over the edge.
Martin
@joel hanes: I’m not sure they have the authority to do that. The constitution is pretty black and white regarding the qualification to run for President. If an impeached and removed President wanted to run, it would be on the wisdom of the voters to not elect them again.
Nora
It’s interesting that all these Republicans who are moaning and groaning about “overturning the results of the election” didn’t seem to have any concerns about the electoral college’s overturning the results of the votes of the millions more people who voted for Hillary than voted for Trump.
Gin & Tonic
In case anyone is interested, here are some photos and at least one English-language article about Pompeo’s visit to St. Michael’s monastery in Kyiv and his meeting with the head of the (newly independent) Ukrainian Orthodox Church. It appears that Pompeo at least went through the motions correctly.
My Side of Town
@Jeffro: ’m looking forward to the House drafting additional charges on Thursdays, just to send him over the edge
That is what I hope. There is a lot.
scav
“Oh!” weeps the Republican Senate cosplaying Judge Aaron Persky, “think of the impact of prison / impeachment on his future!”
NotMax
@Lapassionara
No it doesn’t, unless that is voted on (and passed by majority) separately after conviction to be applied as an additional stricture. Removal and disqualification have been interpreted (and applied by precedent) as individual conditions, not as punishments automatically tethered in tandem.
My Side of Town
So I’m wondering if these traitorous Senators, ever show up to these big gun rallies, where everyone is carrying. Just asking for a friend.
Omnes Omnibus
@My Side of Town: You must chill!
Another Scott
Eyes on the prize(s).
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
@The Dangerman: “this HAS to be a parody account comment of the Senator, right? It can’t be real.”
At least it looks like that a whole flock of them are going to to on record explicitly agreeing with Alexander. Puzzling for hem to be so open about it unless they think rousing the Trumpster base is their best, maybe only, chance to keep WH and Senate majority, and their own seats.
chris
The former President of Estonia forgot the snark tag.
Amir Khalid
The convoluted bullshit on display here from this Republican Senator and his fellows is a tacit admission that there is a compelling case for calling witnesses. It seems to me that, given the inevitability of Mitch McConnell’s rigging the trial to favour Trump’s acquittal, it was always Nancy Pelosi’s best bet to make him do it — armtwisting of his caucus and all — in the open. I conclude that this is her strategy playing out as planned.
Frankensteinbeck
@Nora:
Only the votes of white people count, and at that it’s not individual white people, it’s White People as an identity group. They either actively hate or do not grasp the relevance of what anyone else wants.
NotMax
Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Decision.
Whatever reputation your political career may have garnered lies now in scraggly, smoldering tatters, Lamar.
My Side of Town am
@Omnes Omnibus: Just finished watching Colony on Netflix. So I don’t trust anything. I had refrained because I thought it was THE colony, which I had already seen. But no, it was 100 time better. Now I am suspicious about everything. :)
My Side of Town am
@My Side of Town am: fuck your moderation. What the fuck is the matter with you ?
James E Powell
Was anyone expecting a good explanation for not having witnesses? For not presenting relevant documents? There aren’t any. Although the press/media will never come out and say, the only reason is that allowing the public to hear from witnesses and see the documents would destroy the Trump administration. It is a cover up. Except the press/media are not calling it that.
NotMax
Also, the abject quavering cowardice of Marco Rubio.
Kay
I really do worry about the level of corruption. Endorsing obstruction and blocking oversight and transparency, as they have done here, is a blank check for corruption. It is inevitable.
If you’re a potential whistleblower and you’re watching this you aren’t going to report. You’ll know going in you’re the only one who will suffer repercussions. The only person who suffers is the one person who did the right thing.
It’s the same thing over and over again- the powerful are held harmless and the less powerful do all the sacrificing. I don’t think you can have a functioning justice system grounded in that philosophy. It’s simply not credible.
sukabi
“For the Senate to tear up the ballots in this election and say President Trump couldn’t be on it, the country probably wouldn’t accept that. It would just pour gasoline on cultural fires that are burning out there.”
Impeachment and conviction / removal isn’t akin to nullifying an election or tearing up ballots. It’s removing an unfit person from an office he’s abusing.
It would be nice if the people making these dumbass, self-serving statements were shoveling shit in a hog farm, instead of stinking up the capitol with their bullshit.
Hoodie
Lamar is definitely past his prime, even if that wasn’t much to write home about. Complete inanity.
TriassicSands
@Barbara:
It can mean that Trump is prevented from holding office again. That’s up to the “jury.”
Sab
I just read Portman’s statement. What a weasel.
TriassicSands
@Lapassionara:
Not necessarily. That is a possible, but not mandatory, penalty.
Duane
Keep talking, Republicans. The whole lot of them are as dumb as the rocks they overturn while digging that hole deeper and deeper.
unrelatedwaffle
He doesn’t actually believe these things. It’s just what he’s saying to make believe he’s voting based on some sort of principle. My question is, who are these clowns pretending for? Are there people out there who vote GOP who ARENT blindly loyal, authoritarian, dictator boot lickers? If Lamar Alexander came out there and said “I’m voting against witnesses because I don’t give a shit about anything but money and power” would a single voter in this country change their party affiliation?
These people are corrupt beyond measure and they know they can get away with anything. I guess I just don’t get keeping up the pretense.
Baud
@unrelatedwaffle:
They lie to themselves all the time. They like to pretend they are morally superior to us.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I wish there were gif of John Gielgud from Arthur saying, “Who is this person?”
?BillinGlendaleCA
@The Dangerman:
The Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishment.
Kay
@Hoodie:
It’s amusing they still can’t settle on a coherent defense for their President. It’s tearing up ballots or it’s Schiff was mean to them, or it’s Hunter Biden, or it’s the legal theory Dershowitz pulls out of his ass- it’s a bunch of excuses.
They can’t even conduct something approximating a real trial, something that happens all over the country hundreds of times a day. They couldn’t manage and present a halfway credible process. That was too heavy a lift for these people, even knowing they were going to acquit no matter what they heard. Too scared of Donald Trump to even protect the institution they serve in. There are traffic court judges with more competence and courage.
unrelatedwaffle
@James E Powell: exactly! It blows my mind that anyone is surprised or even pays attention to their mealy mouthed justifications.
TriassicSands
@Nora:
i think the argument he’s making is that the American people (with some outside assistance) are stupid enough to elect a criminal to be their president, but they are so stupid (and violent) that they won’t tolerate having that criminal face the consequences of his actions.
The Republican argument frequently comes down to a recognition (or assumption) that the American people are incapable of accepting the responsibilities and burdens our system places on them. See Scalia in Bush v Gore. The country couldn’t survive a constitutional crisis (at least not one that resulted in a Democrat being elected president).
Barbara
@Kay: Amen. They sit there, exposed and naked, as being devoid of any principles except preservation of their own privilege and abject fear of anything that threatens it. That’s it. God, country, rule of law, none of it matters a bit. At least they are making it clear.
Kay
They simply refused to do the job. They didn’t want to acquit after hearing evidence because that’s humiliating for them, that public spectacle of how corrupt they are, so they simply blocked all the evidence and did only half the job. They don’t function in their role at all.
Baud
@Barbara:
I can relate.
sdhays
@TriassicSands: That was the argument for Ford doing the “noble” thing by pardoning Nixon, which really hasn’t aged well. It was also the reason that LBJ didn’t reveal that Nixon was a traitor for torpedoing the Paris peace talks before the 1968 election.
Baud
Is anyone watching Rachel? Parnas is on and his attorney mentioned the public authority defense. Basically, he was following Trump’s orders.
Kay
@Barbara:
Impeachment is dead letter. They killed it. Maybe they want that. Maybe that, like all the other checks and balances they’ve done away with, simply gets in their way.
Makes the stakes for elections VERY high, though, I must say. You’re electing a dictator to a four year rule. They can destroy a lot in 4 years.
TriassicSands
@jl:
There is little danger of that. The Republicans will completely reverse course as soon as the next Democrat is elected president.
TriassicSands
@sdhays:
Right, another example.
mali muso
Well I for one was inspired to go donate to Warren. At least it made me feel a tiny bit better.
TriassicSands
@sdhays:
I’ve long argued that Ford’s pardon set the precedent for never holding a president accountable. It didn’t end “our long national nightmare,” it simply put the president above and beyond the reach of the law.
Kay
@Barbara:
I watched part of it and what it looked like to me was a group of powerful people who were put out that they had to do their jobs because that exposes them to risk- resentful people who were mad that they had been put in a position where they had to do something difficult and unpopular or take actual responsibility for their decision to acquit.
So, you know, what a county court judge or jury does on any given day. They couldn’t handle that. Too hard. They couldn’t rise to the level of…..jury duty.
Another Scott
In case you get in an argument with a Teabagger:
Yeah…
Cheers,
Scott.
John Revolta
@NotMax:
Wow. It’s like, “How much more Rubio could this be?” and the answer is, None. None more Rubio.
West of the Rockies
Another Scott
@John Revolta: Let’s dispel this notion that Marco Rubio doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing.
Cheers,
Scott.
Barbara
@Kay: They signed up for power. If they wanted sacrifice they would have joined the army.
jl
@Baud: “[Parnas’] attorney mentioned the public authority defense. Basically, he was following Trump’s orders.”
That will probably have to be presented without the benefit of Trump. Trump has no idea who Parnas is. Nunes can’t help either, he has no idea who too many people are with similar names, like Parness, Par-NASS, Parnaz, Parnez, to remember Parnas.
darms
FYI – When I google
I see ‘About 5 results’ all skeezy…
James E Powell
@TriassicSands:
I’ve long argued that Ford’s pardon set the precedent for never holding a president accountable. It didn’t end “our long national nightmare,” it simply put the president above and beyond the reach of the law.
It’s only been applied to protect Republican presidents. Reagan, Bush, Bush II, and Trump have all been protected from accountability by other members of their party and by the press/media.
John Revolta
@Another Scott: Classic.
debbie
To instead look the other way, Lamar, would betray the Constitution. Meh, eh?
Any chance the Dem Senators could propose a vote to censure?
Kay
@James E Powell:
It’s more than “the President” though, because this crackpot theory of avoiding hard or unpopular or scary decisions and letting bygones be bygones is applied over and over to hold powerful people harmless.
They’re too big to fail.
LongHairedWeirdo
Shorter Lamar Alexander: “Look, I might be retiring, but if I do my *job*, people might be upset, and you can’t expect me to *upset* anyone, except for people who believe in the rule of law.”
debbie
@Sab:
I haven’t seen it. I can certainly imagine. Bastard should self-expel himself from whatever pro-Ukraine group he prides himself on belonging to.
More importantly, this is the first time I have seen your number since reading of your loss. I’m so very sorry for you and your family.
Kay
@LongHairedWeirdo:
They’re all essentially saying “it is impossible for me to make an unpopular decision and it is unimaginable that you would even ask”
debbie
Please help. A g snuck into my email and my post got stuck!
eddie blake
@Kay:
“4 year rule”
guess that’s assuming facts not in evidence. if they can ignore ONE part of the constitution, what makes you think they’ll not ignore OTHER parts that inconvenience them?
Duane
If the Republicans think they’ll get away with their cowardly acts they should think again. Trumpov won’t learn from this, he’s incapable. He’ll keep criming away. They’ve made a really bad bet.
Scott Alloway
@MazeDancer: You wrote what I thought. Will send my postcard with one word. Coward.
joel hanes
@Martin:
OK, I’m interested. You’re usually better informed than I.
But in the comment to which you are responding, I quoted the Constitution itself, and the part I quoted seems to me to explicitly anticipate that convicted impeachees may be barred from holding any further federal office.
What am I missing?
ETA: Never mind. NotMax answers at 34, for which I am grateful.
NotMax
@joel hanes
Contemporary example is Alcee Hastings, impeached and convicted federal judge removed from the bench, subsequently (and currently) an elected member of the House.
Sab
@NotMax: Andrew Johnson was elected Senator from Tennessee after his impeachment.
NotoriousJRT
I don’t give a flying or garden variety f#ck what these fools have to say. They are coward parasites. Posts with their crappy rationalizations are wastes of pixels.
darms
most of us (at least those of us who think) really do have a point…
Ladyraxterinok
@Kay:
Could a few people from Lamar’s state do a citizen’s arrest for failing to do what he was hired to do. They’d be ‘interested, affected’ parties.
Several groups do same for their GOP senator.
Or a different charge that’s true and .hits home to low info voters
Matt
Shorter Lamar Alexander: “I care so much about the rule of law that I’m helping hold it down while my buddies all take a turn!”
Every time a conservative starts talking about “morality”, the only reply should be to spit in their face and walk away.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@scav: I am, I am, and few things warm the cockles of my coal-black heart so much.