prepping tomorrow's class. pic.twitter.com/Lzl0SjMHZh
— Bethany Albertson (@AlbertsonB2) February 2, 2020
First, an excellent idea concerning last week’s Republican clown show: Commentor Debbie suggested people nominate Adam Schiff for the JFK Library’s Profile in Courage Award, because he has earned it, and because it will piss off all the right people. Here’s a link to the nomination form. And here’s what commentor Zhena Goglia submitted:
Adam Schiff has done heroic service to his country in chairing the impeachment hearings in the House Intelligence Committee and as House Manager of the impeachment trial of Donald J. Trump. His performance in both of these roles was nothing short of miraculous — he displayed keen intelligence, broad and deep knowledge of the facts and of the legal issues, and unerring moral insight and courage. During the impeachment trial he spoke eloquently, vividly, and forcefully for hours on end. He was threatened by our mob boss of a president in the middle of the trial, but never lost his composure or his steadfast determination. In the face of unbelievable bad faith and pusillanimity on the part of the president’s counsel and the Republican senators, he never lost his focus on the truth and on his valiant attempt (perhaps a failed one) to save our democracy.
***********
Elsewhere, out in The Field… ICYMI, this mishap had the Politically Online extremely busy Sunday:
The Des Moines Register and CNN cancel the release of their highly anticipated Iowa poll tonight after Pete Buttigieg’s campaign complained he was left out of at least one phone call, per NY Times.https://t.co/ewrlbxAN5V
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) February 2, 2020
my sources tell me that the Selzer Iowa poll was extremely good for my preferred candidate, and very bad for my least favourite candidate
— The Online-Normie Complex (@canderaid) February 2, 2020
The Iowa polls we’re all obsessing over consistently show a huge number of undecideds – like 50 percent. The polls don’t have to be wrong for the outcome to differ from what they’ve shown so far.
— Adam Jentleson ?????? (@AJentleson) February 2, 2020
Note from a Iowa inhabitant:
This has been the general theme of my interactions with normal 20- & 30somethings here. Happy to get moving & not judgemental about primary preferences, just want a D in Nov. The toxic bullshit I encounter inevitably comes from students, salaried campaign staff & pro activists.
— The Mall Krampus (@cakotz) February 1, 2020
From a professional election observer:
Observations from seeing Biden, Warren and Sanders today:
-Would be shocked if Biden wins Iowa. Not a lot of excitement
-Warren seemed to have the best demo cross section young/old. Most substantive event
-Sanders needs high turnout, big but very young crowd— Michael McDonald (@ElectProject) February 2, 2020
Warren was on top of game interacting with questions. The crowded debate stages sap her strength in connecting with voters. Her prepared stump speech was not as good as her one-on-one interactions
— Michael McDonald (@ElectProject) February 2, 2020
Political tourism is a thing. And yes I’m contributing to it. It was cool to see these events, but we kept running into people not from Iowa. All the candidates’ crowds are inflated with tourists
— Michael McDonald (@ElectProject) February 2, 2020
The reporters are getting cranky. (Linskey is the one being paid to hate-stalk Warren.)
WaPo reporters also showing a bit of fartigue https://t.co/DUVHkPZF1H
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) February 2, 2020
“…the campaigns and voters acknowledged a palpable sense of unpredictability and anxiety as Democrats begin selecting which candidate to send on to a November face-off with President Donald Trump” ?@jpaceDC? ?@sara_burnett? https://t.co/o7M2rQo8bp
— Michael Tackett (@tackettdc) February 2, 2020
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ???
John S.
I like Warren a lot. But I do worry about her ability to win if she’s the nominee.
When I was out to lunch last week with some colleagues, I was shown (allegedly) a clip of her saying a transgender kid would pick her Secretary of Education. When I looked at the “proof”, I saw the usual right-wing puke funnel on Google: Fox, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Washington Times, etc. Eventually I found a clip from a not completely batshit crazy source, and lo and behold – she didn’t say what she was alleged to have said.
Now these are not stupid people I was dealing with. Yes, they voted for Trump, but they are also not very happy with him. Alas, they saw what they wanted to see with Warren. And they aren’t the kind of people to stay home, so they would hold their nose and vote for Trump again rather than vote for someone they have been convinced is a radical socialist crackpot.
I honestly don’t know how we overcome the alternate reality that so many people live in. Yes, we can win with sheer numbers – but there’s just way too many people out there who are aggrieved when they win, let alone when they lose. And there doesn’t seem to be any way to get through to them.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
geg6
Good morning!
So glad some voting is finally starting. Well, not exactly voting, but caucusing. Which I hate. So undemocratic, so stupid. But at least it’s starting. My distaste for the Iowa scene, I must admit, is exponentially increased by the joy in the stupid process and Russert reminiscences of the Morning Joe gang. They love it all so much that it makes me hate it all the more.
germy
Won’t they do what he tells them to do? If he loses the nomination and tells them to vote for the nominee, will they really disobey?
Baud
@John S.:
As they will with whoever our nominee is.
germy
Are you sure?
I mean, they seem to believe an awful lot of bullshit.
John S.
@germy: Sadly, these are actually very bright people. I wish I could just write them off as being stupid, but I can’t. Which is what makes the situation that much more frustrating.
Baud
@germy:
That’s what gets me. There are progressive news sources I no longer use because I don’t like being lied to. But these people want to be lied to above all else.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
God the corporate media is useless. This like how they freaked out over Obama putting mustard on his cheeseburger.
Baud
@John S.:
Intelligence has nothing to do with goodness.
Chyron HR
@germy:
Will it be a real endorsement, or will he go around back afterwards and assure his supporters that he’s only doing it because the DNC threatened to kill his wife?
(Again.)
germy
POTUS gets simple geography wrong, and the Washington Post puts this on its front page:
What happens when 4 Democratic candidates come to your city? There’s nowhere to park.
Steeplejack (phone)
@rikyrah:
Good morning. ?
Kay
@John S.:
Trump isn’t an IQ test – he’s a character test. They failed an easy question on the character test, too. Would this have even entered the “puke funnel” if this part hadn’t been included?
There’s a real clip of Warren telling a NYC teacher that she would pick a teacher. They didn’t choose that one to take out of context and blast out.
Steeplejack (phone)
Note: Valued commenter YY_Sima Qian has posted downstairs.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@germy: I don’t see Wilmer supporting anyone, even Warren. He’s always been a sore loser. 50 plus years of bitter political behavior doesn’t change at age 79.
Three days ago he was ranting to the Vichy Times about the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn. They left 62 years ago – and he’s still gnawing at it. It’s not normal to hold a grudge that long over something so superficial.
Kay
@germy:
Someone on Twitter said if a Democrat from the east cost had done that we would be subjected to two solid weeks of how Democrats don’t understand the heartland.
Which is 100% true.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Kay:
Excellent point.
Jeffro
CONGRATS CHIEFS!!!
Now I can quit watching replays of the Eagles beating the Patriots a couple years ago. =)
OzarkHillbilly
@John S.: They may be intelligent but they are not smart.
debbie
Thanks for posting the link, Anne Laurie. I hope everyone takes the less than a minute (seriously) to submit a nomination.
I’m still focusing on the impeachment hearings. It may be a forgone conclusion Trump won’t be convicted, but the Dems should take every opportunity today to call out the Republicans who have chosen to stand for the president. Make them own it. Tell them they are supporting a man who has been aided by a bunch of pseudo-constitutional lawyers to commit crimes against the Constitution, a man who has dragged this country further from its founding ideals than could ever have been imagined.
OzarkHillbilly
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
It is for him. I know a # of people like that.
debbie
@germy:
At least he didn’t say they were from Bangladesh. //
Baud
Today show places Yang in the “progressive” camp.
Barbara
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch: Talk about dating yourself.
Ohio Mom
When people who appear smart support Trump, I take it as a psychological issue.
Anna Freud said, “All learning is overcoming resistance,” and boy are those types well-defended.
Which is another way of saying, they don’t have enough
intellectual and emotional courage to do an honest self-evaluation.
Or, if you’re not a touchy-feely type, they have no character.
Princess
@John S.: People who voted for Trump will find, and be given, a million reasons to vote for him again, even if we put up Biden or Bloomberg. Maybe some will stay home; most won’t. We need to boost our own turnout. Warren is the only candidate who is friendly to both the Bernie wing and Hillary wing of the party.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
As befits the favorite of those progressive scamps at 4chan.
debbie
@John S.:
I just listened to an NPR interview with an Iowan farmer who had had to take an additional job to make ends meet. He wasn’t happy with Trump but didn’t trust Dems because he didn’t know where all the money they wanted to spend was going to come from. Does the man not have eyes to read and see how much money Trump is wasting and misspending?
These people may not be stupid, but they sure as fuck are oblivious.
Barbara
@debbie: Should have said “all the money they want to spend on other people” because somehow that is the only spending that is suspect for people who usually vote Republican.
OzarkHillbilly
FTFY, and the answer to your question is yes, but someday he’s gonna be rich and he too will get the Daddy Warbucks money.
Kay
NPR’s still exploring the nuances of Trump voters, I see.
Interesting approach to take while supposedly “covering” the Democratic primary. Who speaks for the Trump voters? Why do they have no voice? Let’s travel to Iowa, the day of the Democrats election, and interview them. There is, after all, this ONE fucking day where they’re not the center of attention. That injustice will not stand.
Immanentize
@Kay: I was going to say something similar, but less well. What’s funny is how Trump voters are already pre-testing their reasons for voting for Trump. They know they shouldn’t, but by gum, they’re gonna. No one is going to find the magic reason that will pursuade then because there is a closet filled with vague reasons why they just can’t vote for someone besides Trump. But they are clearly embarrassed at some deep level.
Ten Bears
Adam Schiff has all the qualities I am looking for in a President, while The Candidates are each at least a can of beer short of a six-pack. Butt… the dems are working as hard to discourage my vote as they did the last go’round.
Immanentize
@Ohio Mom:
I love this. I am going to put it on my office door.
Patricia Kayden
@John S.: Your colleagues are probably going to vote again for Trump no matter who is the Democratic nominee. If they’re already susceptible to Rightwing propaganda, they’re going to hate our nominee no matter who he/she is.
Immanentize
@Ten Bears: Please read what I wrote at 34. For every candidate there are thousands of reasons to vote against them. Some honest, most not these days. But if your complaint is that a primary process is making you not want to vote for a Democrat — against TRUMP?!? — “we all wanna change your head.”
ETA. If Adam Schiff was actually running for President rather than being involved in the impeachment, there would be plenty of reasons not to vote for him, believe me. Perfection is not on the friggin ballot
JPL
@debbie: They listen to what the fox says
Immanentize
@John S.: Did you try — “Do you actually believe she said that? I mean, do you really think that is real?”
Being incredulous at credulity can work
TS (the original)
@debbie:
And it is way past time for the interviewer to explain such facts to them – but no – they just nod & smile.
Kay
@Immanentize:
We shouldn’t equate “smart” or “level of education or qualifications” with “good person” because it’s not true but also because there’s an assumed flip side, where “not smart” or “lacking formal qualifications” means “bad person”. If Trump and the Trump years show anything they show these measures are not measures of character.
I think Lamar Alexander put it best, when he told us what he values over character and the rule of law- far Right judges and a good economy. I appreciate him admitting it.
Gin & Tonic
@Ten Bears: How? By not immediately anointing St. Bernard of Burlington?
Princess
@Ten Bears: Funny how that works. All the current candidates are completely unacceptable but there is some magical candidate who is not running who would be perfect. Mmm hmm.
Immanentize
@Princess: That happens every cycle and it is always some untested person — Stacy Abrams likewise. If they were running for President, their flaws would be exposed. Who knows, maybe Adam has things in his life he would rather not reveal?
OzarkHillbilly
@TS (the original): The reporter is not there to educate. The reporter is there to report.
Princess
@Immanentize: Yes. Maybe he is passionate about law but not so interested in economics or foreign policy.
Immanentize
@Kay: Agreed. At least the Republicans have been pushed into a place where they have to be honest about their lack of character.
Steeplejack
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Interesting that you bring this up, in light of
John S.’s comment above about distortions in the right-wing puke funnel and our general conversation about media “stalking.” This strikes me as an (admittedly minor) example on the left-hand side.
Commenter Kent brought it to our attention in the “Election Year Open Thread” on Thursday, referencing a New York Times article with a somewhat stalker-ish, gotcha angle—reporter asks politician a question, politician answers, then that is made the hook of the article, giving the impression that the politician is going around spontaneously raising the issue in the question.
The Times article was “Bernie Sanders Is Still Sad About the Dodgers”, with the subhead “And he knows how to nurse a grudge.” Kent took from that, as the authors possibly intended, further fuel for the “grouchy Bernie” meme, with a bonus ding for Bernie saying something anti-labor about “that free agency crap” (referring to the Curt Flood case of 1969). This was discussed further in that thread.
The problem is that the free agency comment and the whole grouchy rant was not Sanders but a character he played in an obscure movie, which (I thought) should have been obvious to anyone who read the Times article. My debunkification here..
But now, four days later, things have been distilled to the point that the initial distortion has taken hold and we’ve got Sanders personally “gnawing” at a superficial grudge from 62 years ago.
This is one reason that I’m constantly badgering commenters to provide links for their unsourced Internet bullshit. This kind of stuff happens all the time. Think about how many times it happens to your favorite candidate. Or, no, think about how many times it might have happened to that candidate that you dismissed because “I didn’t like what he/she said about x.”
Immanentize
@OzarkHillbilly: But reporting can/used to include testing the interviewee’s underlying assumption. Now, it’s almost like they are happy with a Trump voter’s answer confessing continued support for Trump?
The difference between Lamar! and the Trump voter described is that the latter is still trying to pretend he is a good person.
Spanky
@Kay: Ol’ Lamar and his right wing friends are about to find out how fickle his “good economy” really is.
I’m not happy about it, but if my retirement fund taking a haircut will ensure booting these guys out of the majority & White House, I’ll not complain.
JPL
This week is gonna suck, because of Bernie, trump and acquittal. Everyday will be a new nightmare until Thursday.
Gin & Tonic
@Steeplejack: Interesting problem (or meta-problem, as it were.) If I click on the link in which you use the work “debunkification” I am taken to comment 89 in that thread, while the intended target is comment 100. Then when I click my browser’s back arrow, I come back to this thread but also 11 comments above the one I left at.
Immanentize
You all are great! Except you, you, and of course, you in the back.
See y’all later! Off to have a Doc to Heart talk.
Spanky
@Immanentize: Good luck!
Steeplejack
@Gin & Tonic:
Positioning/navigation remains the biggest issue with the blog rebuild, in my opinion. It’s still dreadfully fucked up. I checked all my links, and the “debunkification” one works correctly for me even now (Firefox, Win10). Sorry for the inconvenience.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack: Fascinating. Thank you!
NotMax
@John S.
As good an opening as any to point again to Carl Sagan’s Baloney Detection Kit.
OzarkHillbilly
If s/he was interviewing some political candidate or a chief of police or a titan of industry I would expect that (eta: and complain about if I didn’t get that). But if a reporter is doing a man in the street interview it’s to get the point of view of the man on the street, not to engage in some deep dive into the issues.
It’s mud puddle shallow and expecting anything more than mud out of it is a little silly IMHO.
OzarkHillbilly
Now you hurt my feeling, singling me out for ridicule like that. And it’s the last feeling I’ve got.
Kay
@Spanky:
I think we’ll see the same dynamic with Trump we saw with Bush, though. Where all our supposedly “data driven” and “rigorously analytical” Wall Street types flatly ignore signs of an economic slowdown because they ideologically support the no-tax, no regulation Republican President.
They didn’t “miss” the Bush economy imploding. They refused to see it. They then spent 8 years slagging Obama on the economy – oh, they were so ANXIOUS, such UNCERTAINTY, and the DEFICIT! Remarkably, then, overnight, they no longer care about “uncertainty” because Trump gave them a huge tax cut and he gutted regulations.
They’ll flog the Trump economy until it collapses in a spectacular heap. They will miraculously “miss” all warning signs, just like ’09.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
Thank you! I got so exercised that I roused myself from bed, where I have been resting my sore back, and threw the housecat off the notebook keyboard so that I could get on the real computer for all the linkage.
Betty Cracker
Speaking of stories that sound like bullshit, I was 100% sure this NBC report about John Kerry thinking about jumping into the 2020 race was a load of hooey when I read it yesterday:
I was so sure this was a backwards “B” type fabrication because it seemed designed to precisely hit every note for the Berniacs: the dreaded establishment blocking their man, paid speeches, banksters, vulture capitalists, etc. But later on, Kerry clarified in a way that makes it sound like he may have said those things after all, if only to put off a paranoid friend:
Jesus Christ.
glory b
So msnbc does a random interview with a guy who happwns to be a business owner who likes what Trump does, doesn’t like how he tweets and says he’ll win.
“In spite of being surrounded by democrats?” “Yep.”
How random.
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
On the same subject, can someone recommend a good book (even a textbook—eek!) on critical thinking? I feel like I’m okay in that area ?, but, you know, a refresher never hurts. And it’s not something I ever studied specifically.
When the glorious revolution comes and we reform the educational system, critical thinking and personal finance should be two required high school courses. Maybe junior high. “This is why you should pay attention when you get to high school, because otherwise your future prospects don’t look so hot.”
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Meh. A non-story in my book.
Soprano2
I am so mad about NPR’s Morning Edition coverage of the Iowa caucuses this morning that I actually tweeted at them! They’re interviewing more Republican voters than Democratic ones about the Democratic caucuses this morning. I sure don’t remember them interviewing a bunch of Democrats about the Republican candidates in 2016. Why are they reinforcing the idea that the Republican voter is the “real” voter that Democrats need to be appealing to, even in their caucuses and primaries?!!!
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: Illustrative of all that is wrong with today’s media. How that 1/2 story got past an editor… Telling the whole story is sooo…. old school.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Soprano2: What’s really interesting is that they’re asking them about the D caucus rather than their own, which is also tonight. It would be interesting to ask whether they think the R caucus has been fairly handled.
mrmoshpotato
@John S.:
I’ve noticed that too. You guys won. Why are you still pissed? You didn’t have to live through 4 year of President Hillary. Congrats!
Is it that their white supremacist utopia isn’t happening overnight (or ever if the 65.8 million of us Hillary voters don’t leave the country)? What the hell is it?
Betty Cracker
@Baud: You’re probably right, though it’ll provide fresh logs for the Sanders grievance bonfire, not that they ever run short anyway. I’m surprised Kerry would be so careless. Holding forth by phone at the steam-tables in a hotel that was crawling with reporters seems like an amateur move.
mrmoshpotato
@Chyron HR:
Wha? Never heard this particular line of crap before.
chopper
@Betty Cracker:
oh, that’s an eternal flame all right.
zhena gogolia
Yeah, I just want a D in November too. Stands for Democrat.
Steeplejack
@mrmoshpotato:
My RWNJ brother is a perfect example of this. Still posting anti-Dem, anti-Hillary and (now) anti-Schiff and anti-Pelosi stuff to Facebook. But it it interesting that he doesn’t post any pro-Trump stuff. And he does post a lot of general “partisan divide” and “bad government” stuff, analogous to the “$300 hammer” government waste stuff of the old days. (Can’t think of a current example, because I tune out his posts as soon as I determine that he’s not using Facebook to tell me that our mother died or something—which would be “on brand” for him.) But, yes, mad about everything all the time.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize:
Mnem said last night that Schiff is “business friendly.” I have no doubt that the moment he would become a candidate, he’ll be History’s Greatest Monster to these people who need to have Democrats persuade them to vote AGAINST FASCISM.
mrmoshpotato
@JPL:
And then Thursday morning no more gloating from Dump and the Deplorables?
Just being realistic here.
You might want to take a mental health break from the news come Thursday.
Steeplejack
@mrmoshpotato:
Suggestion calibration of snarkmeter.
Mo MacArbie
@OzarkHillbilly: What are these “editors” of which you speak?
mrmoshpotato
@Immanentize: Knock it out of the park!
O. Felix Culpa
@zhena gogolia: Oh, Schiff is already tarred and feathered in the eyes of the acolytes of the One True Holy Candidate. A cultist I regrettably know posted a Jacobin article “exposing” Schiff’s perfidies on facebook a week or so ago.
Azhrie139
@OzarkHillbilly: Ha! Now a days most (though not all) reporters are there just to pass on propaganda from other sources and then facilitate the recipients of propaganda regurgitate it back out to a national audience.
NotMax
@O. Felix Culpa
You mean Schiff didn’t kidnap the Lindbergh baby?
//
Elizabelle
Wait, you guys. The FTF NY Times story actually does make the point Kent raised, but it’s gentle and — I thought — actually positive for Bernie, and he uses Major League/minor league baseball as a parable and framework for his economic argument. Of towns losing their minor leagues because — greed. The money goes to pay megastars for major teams the major bucks. The article is way more detailed than that, and actually a good read.
What this story really proves is the deprivation a paywall imposes, because most of you have had to rely on Kent’s and Steeplejack’s interpretations of the FTF NYTimes story, both of which were partial and have left you with the impression the FTF NY Times muffed this one. They did not.
It’s true — the carping was part of a role Bernie played in a film, as Steeplejack says. BUT:
Bernie spools out the nostalgia for the childhood spent following the Brooklyn Dodgers — from his very borough — riding the subway 30 minutes to the cheap seats. Receiving a Dodgers shirt as a gift (“a very meaningful present for me,” he said quietly”). And then — when he was 16 —
NOTE: I’ve put the NY Times blockquotes in italics, because I find blockquoting long passages more difficult with the new format.
Two years after the team’s signal triumph, defeating the Yankees in the 1955 World Series, the Dodgers were gone, airlifted to Los Angeles by an owner, Walter O’Malley, whose very mention can still prove triggering for a veteran Brooklynite.
Mr. Sanders invoked an old joke about the three men most loathed in the borough at the time: Stalin, Hitler and Mr. O’Malley — “not necessarily in that order.”
The senator does not remember how he found out about the team’s departure. But he remembers what he learned. “You don’t understand as a kid that this is a privately owned company whose goal is to make money, and if things don’t go well, you move to another community,” he said. “I didn’t know that as a kid. And that was — it was inconceivable. It was really inconceivable.”
[From earlier in the article:
perhaps no single event has proved more enduring in Mr. Sanders’s consciousness — more viscerally felt in his signature fury toward the one percent — than the day he was told his neighborhood heroes belonged to someone else.
“It was like they would move the Brooklyn Bridge to California,” Mr. Sanders recalled. “How can you move the Brooklyn Bridge to California?”]
…. When he was Burlington’s mayor in the 1980s, he and the local business establishment hoped to foster a sense of community by attracting a minor league team to the city.
It worked, he said. Parents brought their children to games. Everybody had a good seat, in a setting more intimate than a big-league park. Mr. Sanders threw out the first pitch on opening night. “That’s what it is — it’s a community thing,” he said, almost wistfully. “And it’s especially good for the children, for the kids.”
As a presidential candidate, Mr. Sanders has turned saving minor league baseball into a pillar of his populist agenda, alongside his familiar calls for “Medicare for all” and tuition-free public college.
AND: TURNING TO BERNIE’s favorite topic:
His is an old wound [ie. losing the Brooklyn Dodgers] but one with fresh resonance in a presidential campaign fixated on the ravages of unfettered capitalism. News reports in October said that Major League Baseball — the corporate behemoth of his youth — was seeking to change the minor league system and might sever ties with 42 teams. Mr. Sanders became one of the most vocal opponents of this plan, drawing attention to the plight of teams like the Missoula PaddleHeads and the Batavia Muckdogs while also making his broader pitch.
On Wednesday, Major League Baseball seemed to have had enough of the opposition to the proposal, releasing a letter warning the minor league organization that the “misinformation tactics you have employed” would backfire.
In a statement on Thursday, Mr. Sanders tersely reminded the league of the “gigantic tax breaks” that teams have received.
“If the multibillionaire owners of Major League Baseball have enough money to pay hundreds of millions in compensation to one superstar ballplayer,” he said, “they damn well have enough money to pay minor-league players a living wage and prevent 42 minor-league teams from shutting down.”
Here’s the headline.
So, what do you think now? Once you’ve seen behind the paywall?
O. Felix Culpa
@NotMax: Indeed. He probably blew up the Hindenburg too. And was responsible for the launch of New Coke. ::shutters::
mrmoshpotato
@Steeplejack: Ah. It’s still booting up this morning. :)
Amir Khalid
@germy:
I’ve read that most deluded people can reason just fine; their problem is that they’re starting from some pretty fucked-up premises.
mrmoshpotato
Hahahah.
Also, nice window shutters. :)
O. Felix Culpa
On a tragicomic note, I recommend Alexandra Petri’s article from January 30th: Dare we overturn the will of the voters by holding another election?
She is a national treasure. Here’s one paragraph that made me snort:
O. Felix Culpa
I am aware of all internet traditions, thanks to obsessive reading of Balloon Juice.
mrmoshpotato
@O. Felix Culpa: Excellent. They also shuttered New Coke pretty quickly.
I’ll see myself out.
Steeplejack
@Elizabelle:
I wasn’t deconstructing the whole article. I corrected Kent’s misattribution of the movie character’s rant to Sanders personally. And, while there was good content in the story about Sanders’s problems with corporate sports, I still think it is bogus to hang the article on the hook of Sanders ranting and then sliding in “. . . Mr. Sanders said dryly in a recent interview.” And I find it impossible to believe that Sanders himself brought up his involvement in an execrable 1999 movie that probably went straight to whatever is worse than “straight to video.”
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: Good morning to you and the housecat.
Have to say, your “deconstruction” left me wondering if you only read the first paragraphs of the article — which do (misleadingly) start off with the fictional character, because the article kind of bore out Kent’s overall take.
The whole thing proves a dreadful point about paywalls (not speaking of you, here) — that, whatever the reporter writes or intent of the article in full, it’s the headline writer that informs most people who scan (or hear, secondhand) the FTF NY Times story.
It was a problem throughout with the fucking emails, emails, emails stories, and that headline turned what was a thoughtful interview into “here’s crabby Bernie with a grudge”, when the loss of the Brooklyn Dodgers may very well have been a formative experience for his worldview.
I really wish the FTF NY Times would give their political articles away for free (cuz that’s what a lot of them are worth, looking at you Peter Baker, Maggie Haberman, Jonathan Martin and the other Republican whisperers, hired from Politico, etc etc etc) — and have subscribers pay for the other content — the business, travel, local news, lifestyle. FWIW, the FTF NY Times is already demanding an additional weekly fee — from their own current subscribers! — to access their recipes. And crosswords. Foo.
There’s just too much room for damage with being “the paper of record” AND having that content behind a paywall. You’re dependent on the headline, and I really, really wonder about the agenda of many who put up the NY Times headlines. Which can be utterly misleading and debunked by their own damn articles.
Steeplejack
@Elizabelle:
I did read the whole article, and it wasn’t just the headline. The whole framing of the initial anecdote was “Bernie with a grudge.” Which overshadowed the good content in the article.
Also, it didn’t help that Kent muffed his hyperlink, which was an additional barrier to readers going to the source.
Uncle Cosmo
@OzarkHillbilly: IMO, like nearly everyone here, you miss the real distinction: It’s between intelligent and clever.
Most Trumpistas aren’t stupid, because most people aren’t stupid. (I say this having grown up in a blue-collar suburb full of DINOs.) But there are gradations in non-stupidity.
Intelligent people – essentially, those who have learned how to learn from the experience of others distant in time and space – understand that actions have consequences, which have further consequences, etc. etc. They tend to follow the causal chains to evaluate the result somewhere down the line, and they have some grasp of how uncertainty increases with time.
Clever people, OTOH, tend to look one (rarely two) moves ahead. They’re smart enough to spot a chance to gain immediate advantage, and frequently take it; but they don’t see the ensuing consequences – they don’t/can’t/won’t factor in other information to see that far ahead. And when (as so often happens) they make their moves but end up worse off, many of them look for someone/something to blame. They can’t have been wrong, there must be some force actively screwing them over. (Often “the gummint” – not realizing that if their activities were legal, someone would have been doing it long before them. Dunning-Kruger, maybe?)
I see many Trumpistas as clever-not-stupid. Sadly I think the same can be said of most progressives. Consider the joyous celebrations that marked Election Night 2008, the feeling that we were truly becoming (if not finally had become) a post-racial society. (How’d that work out?) And now we watch activists “full of passionate intensity” stanning for their candidate heartthrobs, absolutely sure that their nomination would lead to their election and everything would then have to be wonderful. (And if not, then “they wuz robbed” per last cycle’s Bernie-or-busters.) It looks to me at best like one of those cartoons with a computer flowchart with at its heart the phrase THEN A MIRACLE OCCURS; like the instructor, I think we “need more detail here.” At worst, I look past election & inauguration, apply the experience of disappointment in Obama’s years, and anticipate the pendulum once again swinging back hard to the right in a few more years, smashing democracy in the process.
/rant
Uncle Cosmo
@OzarkHillbilly: You know the definition of Irish Alzheimer’s? When you forget everything but your grudges.
The Serbs are still pissed over Prince Lazar’s defeat by the Turks on Vidovdan (28 June) 1389 CE. The Greeks are still pissed over the sack of Constantinople by the Fourth Crusade in 1204 CE. The Irish are still pissed over Strongbow’s invasion of their island in 1170 CE. Baltimore sports fans are still pissed over Superb Owl 3 & the Orioles’ loss in the 1969 Whirled Serious. (;^D) Etc., etc., etc…..
WaterGirl
Anne Laurie, thank you for the link to the profile in courage award. I have been meaning to do that, and this was a great reminder.
I used Zhena’s comment as a starting point for mine. Not nearly as excellent as Zhena’s, but I will share in case having multiple models to start with is helpful to anyone.
Tenar Arha
@John S.:
You’ve probably heard this before, but if they’re as bright as you say they are, they should still respond to evidence. And there’s plenty of evidence and actual studies you could show them about how they’d be better informed if they read a basic newspaper or two, ignored the editorial pages, even just watched a little late night comedy, & ignored the rest of it, including FaceBorg. If they cannot bring themselves to do that, they’re probably shut up inside their own prejudices.
Also, in my experience, being bright doesn’t mean you aren’t affected by the malicious disinformation that’s been spread for over 20 years now by the Murdoch propaganda network. Even the “mainstream” press’ less malicious tendencies to follow shiny objects & bend over backwards for access & some imaginary balance, rather than fight back against the propaganda war being fought against them, has an obvious distorting effect on their reporting. I mean FTFNYT didn’t become a favored acronym on this site for no reason.
Anyway, sometimes people who are bright about some things, just aren’t very bright about everything. I’ve not been able to maintain friendships with people who are like that, but keeping them at arms length at work usually suffices. I hope you can navigate these waters with your colleagues.
Elizabelle
@Tenar Arha: Well said.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: Good morning! Are you back from your cruise?
Elizabelle
@WaterGirl: Hello there. Yes. Got back over the weekend.
phdesmond
@germy:
bill maher spread that very story on friday night’s show. it sounded ridiculous and therefore untrue, but he used it as an example of “crazy” things that democrats do.
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: Kind of a letdown coming back to winter weather? At least here… Except for yesterday – 60 degrees and sun!
J R in WV
@Steeplejack (phone):
No offense intended, but this “downstairs” thing is nearly information free so far as I am concerned. The threads all have titles. There are actually thousands of threads “downstairs” and some “Upstairs” as well… why can’t we use the title itself?
So which thread is Qian’s newest comment in, really?
Slept pretty well, but while waking up my right lower back took a pang. Medications and rubbing in ointments helped, but I am grouchy even for an old grouch!
I really need to fire up the tractor, use the backhoe to clean out the main culvert, put some gravel into the rut eroded in the last flood, forecast is for 90% chance of rain for the next 4 days, although today is pretty and nearly 70 out. Bright light, tho overcast.
At least I don’t have to use a pick and shovel to clean out the culvert!!!
WaterGirl
@J R in WV: It’s this one:
https://balloon-juice.com/2020/02/03/novel-coronavirus-update-sunday-monday/
J R in WV
@Ten Bears:
Checked out your web page. You seem smart, well educated, etc. Almost as hostile towards the RWNJs as I am…
Surely you know that not voting for the Democratic candidates is the same as voting FOR the Republicans? Don’t let your exasperation with the Dems lead you to vote for the RWNJs~!~
Steeplejack
@J R in WV:
Sorry, Mr. Grouchy! I thought that most regular readers of this blog get that “downstairs” almost always means the immediately preceding post, unless modified in some way (e.g., “a few floors down”). And, since YY_Sima Qian has commented only in the coronavirus threads, I thought it would be obvious.
I see that WaterGirl has come to your rescue, but I’ll try to do better in the future. Let me know if you need help with “upstairs”!