Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Let there be snark.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

No one could have predicted…

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

A Senator Walker would also be an insult to reason, rationality, and decency.

I was promised a recession.

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Reader Interactions

357Comments

  4. 4.

    Another Scott

    It took the AV people until the middle of Bernie’s first answer for them to turn on the correct microphones.

    Liz walked out clearing her throat. I hope she isn’t sick.

    We’ll see what happens.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  5. 5.

    NotMax

    Why do the set designers insist on having stuff moving in the background? Makes everyone appear to be on a moving sidewalk.

  7. 7.

    mrmoshpotato

    Kick out Steyer and Yang, and I’d watch. Instead I’ll ‘hang around for Scooby Doo’. It’s A Scary Night with a Snow Beast Fright.

  9. 9.

    jl

    @Baud:  “I hope it comes to blows.”

    Since that comes from the Baud 2020! campaign, need to inquire what kind of ‘blows’ you are talking about.

  10. 10.

    Leto

    are you gonna watch?

    *insert Clockwork Orange gif*

    Seeing more of Trumpov’s Friday Firings. Just heartening that Trumpov “learned his lesson” and will “be more contrite”.

  15. 15.

    Martin

    @Another Scott: I think Liz suffers from the same problem that I do that after a certain amount of public speaking my voice just goes. Cough comes along with it.

    Either that or Goku gave her coronavirus… :P

  16. 16.

    Marcopolo

    So I guess we’re going for the raucous crowd effect tonight. Don’t the moderators typically tell people to mute their applause?

    I have no idea what anyone on the stage can do to have a break out moment at this point—unless they say something truly stupid & look awful.

  22. 22.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Yeah, I’m watching.

    Has Stephanopoulos always been this milquetoast, or has he changed recently? (Disclaimer: haven’t watched any of his programs for years.)

    Jeesus. He’s really bad.

  26. 26.

    Another Scott

    I’m listening to the ABC coverage on the web; it’s delayed quite a bit from the TV.

    Bernie just said that he’ll unite Democrats, Independents, and Republicans behind a $15/hr minimum wage.  He seems to think that there’s not any GOP opposition to it.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  29. 29.

    O. Felix Culpa

    So we go from how much we love each other to attacking on healthcare costs. Yay.  (Not.)

    Shouty old guy is being shouty.

  30. 30.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I truly don’t think I could survive four years of Bernie yelling and wagging his finger in my face.

  31. 31.

    Marcopolo

    @Baud: If he runs ads during every break you may be right.

     

    And, oh, look. , we’re gonna rehash M4A yet again.  Gah, there is so much they could be talking about.  If I were on this stage every time I had a chance to talk I would pivot to attacking Trump.

  35. 35.

    mad citizen

    @Kent: Very funny!  I noticed that tie.

    Did not realize Mayor Pete is no longer Mayor.  Move down to Fishers and I’ll vote for you for Mayor.

    If Amy had done a purple hair wash to match her dark purple suit I’d be all in.  She is bright, I can’t help but like her.

  36. 36.

    JMG

    Bernie is loud. But as a native New Yorker, he has no idea anyone regards that as loud. It’s New York. Stylistically, he’s a combination of Jerry and George’s Dads from Seinfeld.

  39. 39.

    jl

    Sanders has a such a big lead in NH, everyone will gun for him.

    I’d like for them to take a big dent out his lead, since it might help Warren.

    But so far, I think Buttigieg’s and Biden’s approach won’t do it all, might increase Sander’s lead.

    Let’s see how Klobuchar does. Might be just me, but again, Klobochar far better on presenting specific and convincing centrist policy than the other centrists. Glad she didn’t talk about eating your spinach this time.

    I think Warren better so far on effective counter to Sanders, but I’m prejudiced.

  42. 42.

    jl

    @Marcopolo: It must be a journalistic rule that every debate includes a GOP talking point on health care disguised as a health care policy question.

  43. 43.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @SiubhanDuinne: Amy did well, and I liked Elizabeth’s last comments too. Good pivot to we Democrats are on the side of people who want healthcare, we are the people who expand access to healthcare.

  45. 45.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    First debate I’ve watched and I can’t believe M4A is going  first on Trump’s Kristalnachtt.

  50. 50.

    NotMax

    @JMG

    Oh, please. I’m a native Noo Yawker and managed, without pain or anguish, to assimilate to the stylings of the place to which I relocated.

  54. 54.

    Martin

    @Baud: Pete has about the most ‘Washington establishment’ policy prescriptions of any of them. I think Biden is more radical.

  55. 55.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Amy: We have a newcomer in the White House, and look where it got us.

    Good line. I do not like the way Pete is running on the Republican attack line against the “Washington establishment.”

  57. 57.

    Baud

    Turn your TV on now.  Bernie is giving his stump speech.  Who knows when you’ll hear it again.

  58. 58.

    jl

    Buttigieg as a talent for saying very little with many words. Kind of like a lot of my comments.

    I guess I am bad person for wanting to drag the little twerp off the stage.

    Klobuchar good at effective attacks tonight, but as other commenters have noted, Klobuchar seems to take personally Buttigieg’s doing better than she is.

  60. 60.

    Another Scott

    Ooh.  Amy sticks a dagger in ex-Mayor Pete about the impeachment trial.

    I wonder if Liz is going to get a question…  Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  62. 62.

    Marcopolo

    AK def the best to go after Buttigieg. I think it helps that that she really does think he’s a young, inexperienced twerp comes through in her comments. “We have a newcomer in the White House now—look where it’s gotten us.”

  64. 64.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Marcopolo:

    I hate that over the top cheering, as if this was a game and the applauders are urging their team on. I’m trying out the theory that it’s a bad sign if voters are too enthusiastic about a candidate, as if they were swooning over a movie star rather than making a hire.

  67. 67.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Christ Bernie took a wet blanket to Amy’s excellent pivot.

  68. 68.

    Cacti

    @jl: Klobuchar good at effective attacks tonight, but as other commenters have noted, Klobuchar seems to take personally Buttigieg’s doing better than she is.

    I’d imagine Klobuchar’s tale is a familiar one to a lot of women.

    Embarrassingly less qualified, young white guy gets jumped to the head of the line for the same job.

  69. 69.

    jl

    @Another Scott:  If that is what Buttigieg said, then he gave K a rhetorical knife and pointed the sharp end at his gut. Nice when you can use a quote to definitively dunk an opponent.

  72. 72.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Cacti:

    I’d imagine Klobuchar’s tale is a familiar one to a lot of women.

    Embarrassingly less qualified, young white guy gets jumped to the head of the line for the same job.

    Yes.

  73. 73.

    Martin

    I’m not ashamed to say that the first candidate to show up on a debate stage with full-on blue or pink hair gets my vote.

  75. 75.

    mad citizen

    @SiubhanDuinne: Yes, as a bald 59 year old midwestern man, I noticed how her hair tonight is waaay better than standard midwestern woman hair.

    Does Steyer have something in his bottom teeth or is that always there?

  76. 76.

    jl

    I think every candidate has some very strong quality in which they excel.

    Buttigieg’s is issuing vague uplifting inspirational piffle.

  78. 78.

    Mai naem mobile

    I’ll vote for Buttigieg in the general but jeezus he reminds me of the tech bros guys like Zuck and the Uber Travis guy.  The guys I see on CNBC who think they’ve reinvented the wheel by creating a sharing economy where they get their leecher percentage.

  80. 80.

    jl

    The theme tonight for the moderators seems to be ‘You propose to actually do something as president, can you explain how that will unify the country?’

  83. 83.

    Martin

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: We’re up against a guy that gets cheers when he references how big his dick is, and whether an audience member, or member of the assembled media deserves to have the shit beat out of them.

    Let’s not handicap ourselves any more than we already are.

  87. 87.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    @Cacti:

    “Hoosier Pete” doesn’t have quite the same ring to it

    ETA: Hmm, “Hoosier Pete’s” sounds like an unpromising Midwestern cantina franchise.

  88. 88.

    JMG

    Buttigieg continues to think that being extremely dull is the path to victory. This is weird since for both good and bad, his biography is very interesting.

  92. 92.

    Another Scott

    Good answer by Liz about how important it is that government is accountable and isn’t corrupt.

    Yang is such a lightweight.  Why is he up there…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  93. 93.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Are the questions especially stupid tonight or am I just not inured to it?

  94. 94.

    jl

    @NotMax: I didn’t mean to insult vague uplifting inspirational piffle. It plays an important role in electoral politics. But a little big goes a long way. Buttigieg thinks it goes almost all the way.

  96. 96.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Bernie: The saddest thing is that you had Republicans in the Senate who knew better. They knew he is a crook, they knew he is a cheat.

  102. 102.

    geg6

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    He’s never been good.  Even when he worked for Clinton, he was vastly overrated.  I can’t even find the words to convey my disdain for him.  What’s sad is I really like his wife, who is fun, funny and down to earth. Every time I see her on tv, I end up yelling at her to dump that sycophantic coward.

  105. 105.

    NotMax

    @jl

    Platitudes and bromides are no substitute for ideas and policies.

    Sprinkled in a speech, sure. But employed as debate? No thanks.

  110. 110.

    jl

    @download my app in the app store mistermix: After some promising spurts of moderating in recent debates, I fear we are falling back into the corporate media swamp.

    Oh for gawd’s sake… a question about preemptively cowering in anticipation of Trumpster attacks should make a difference. Trumpsters will ruthlessly and falsely attack whoever is the nominee.

    So far responses are good.

    Oh for Gawd’s sake, now another crap question! Ask K about some gossip about what HRC said about Sanders. So far, total crap from the moderators.

  112. 112.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Wow. Thank you, Pete, for that full-throated defense of the Bidens.

    And the look on Joe’s face while Pete was talking? I thought he was going to cry. I thought I was going to cry.

  115. 115.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Amy: I like Bernie just fine. Then mentions legislation she’s worked on with him. Further, we need an optimistic economic agenda for America.

  118. 118.

    jl

    This debate may go down in history for the best responses to the most idiotic questions.

    Idiot follow-up to idiot question to K about what H said about S.

  121. 121.

    jl

    Yes, don’t like Buttigieg, but he did give a great response to a stupid question, which is often a hard trick to pull off.

  123. 123.

    geg6

    @jl:

    She’s not my choice but I don’t blame her for that.  She is vastly more accomplished.  Vastly.  Like they don’t even exist in the same universe.

  128. 128.

    Another Scott

    Bernie reprises his King of Amendments in the House a bazillion years ago.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  133. 133.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Nobody can say that back in the day we used to work with Republicans but they’ve all gone nuts in the last few years. It just isn’t in the DNA of these debates. Too far out of the frame.

  134. 134.

    JMG

    Actually, Klobuchar has run a good campaign and is good in these things. Just hasn’t struck a spark because I’ll be long dead before the Democrats nominate another woman. Always cringing in fear of what happened the last time.

  137. 137.

    debbie

    @jl:

    Klobuchar seems to take personally Buttigieg’s doing better than she is.

    In keeping with the Mean Boss thing. Pass.

  140. 140.

    Marcopolo

    Good PB answer on using military force.

    Fucking moderators are a fucking joke. They are asking questions in a way that suggests they welcome our living in a country where things resemble the movie Idiocracy.

  141. 141.

    jl

    Maybe I am just super pissed that Warren seems ignored tonight, but have to say again that I think asking different questions to different candidates, without even an attempt to let them all answer or give them all equal time is inherent corrupt. Not a real debate. More like a joint press conference.

    Idiot question about assassination. And the idiot moderator seems to be in love with it. Grubby gotcha gimmick grandstanding by idiotic moderator.

    I think so far, all the candidates are giving good responses.

  148. 148.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @debbie: In keeping with the Mean Boss thing. Pass.

    I have seen no evidence that Amy is more than a demanding boss, which – in a woman – is too often turned into a a smear, while the same trait is admired in men. Pass on that unsubstantiated attack.

  150. 150.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @SiubhanDuinne: I have avoided him since I read his book about his time in the Clinton admin.  He is a chickenshit, careerist wanker.  Yes, I am being nice.

  151. 151.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Warren gets a question. Is that allowed under the debate rules?  /s

    Again she has to push back against this beltway cw douchebag.

  152. 152.

    geg6

    @debbie:

    Or in keeping with the whole white men go to the head of the class, no matter how many brilliant and accomplished women they have to crush under the wheels to get there.

    And I’m not even a Klobuchar fan.

  154. 154.

    Another Scott

    Good answer by SP Warren to the “the generals say we have to stay, why do you hate the generals?” question.

    “Why won’t you listen to the generals?  Hmmm???”

    She’s good on this.  Very good.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  155. 155.

    jl

    So that shithead asking the idiot foreign policy questions is pretty boy Muir?  His foreign policy questions are all framed as ‘Please explain how Democrats are not weak sissies”

    Follow up on question to Warren is actually a good one, though. But next follow up to Biden is back to BS trolling again.

  157. 157.

    rikyrah

    He is a libertarian dudebro clown ???

    Andrew Yang says Trump Admin officials should be free from prosecution for crimes after they leave office.Boy, bye.— The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) February 8, 2020

  159. 159.

    Marcopolo

    I love Warren’s position on pulling our troops out of Afghanistan & not using the military to try to solve problems that can’t be solved by troops on the ground. And she is so clear in how she lays this out.

    Compare to Biden’s comment after hers.

  164. 164.

    Mai naem mobile

    I am a Warren supporter but she needs to sharpen  her answers. She needs memorable tweet size answers.  People have short attention spans(thanks teevee.)

  167. 167.

    Another Scott

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, the moderators are bad.  Very bad.

    But the serious candidates are giving decent answers.

    The DC press is wired for Republicans.  They need to be able to get their message out in spite of that.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  169. 169.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    @jl: He’s just an empty suit parroting beltway horseshit like every other big network anchor.  Really bad.

  170. 170.

    jl

    Almost all the questions are ‘explain how Democrats can possibly not suck?’, ‘why are you such sissies?’, ‘how about you two fight’, ‘i command you to dish on what somebody else said about somebody else’

    I find watching the moderator train wreck grimly amusing, a spectacle most hilarious disgusting, so will plug along with the moderator clown show. The good answers and good behavior of the candidates, make up for it, so far.

  171. 171.

    zhena gogolia

    I realized that the fabulous Howards End adaptation is on Amazon Prime, so I’ve been watching it a second time and enjoying it even more. I have been loving the music, and I just discovered it’s by Nico Muhly!

    I need something soothing tonight after all the disgusting news.

  172. 172.

    Martin

    @rikyrah: Boy, is this the wrong time to answer that question in that way. Dems are pissed and want blood. Don’t straight up deny them that.

  173. 173.

    TaMara (HFG)

    @jl: I think that’s when I really stopped watching – why are they not all answering the same question? That, to me, would be a better sampling of how they are different or similar.

  174. 174.

    patroclus

    Sadly, Klobuchar isn’t winning the debate anymore – mostly because they haven’t called on her for nearly 30 minutes.

  175. 175.

    Marcopolo

    @Mai naem mobile: Article said he “laid off” 240 staffers.  Pretty sure his funding is drying up after rolling snake eyes in IA.  He could pare down a lot and keep going through Super Tuesday but he doesn’t have a real path to the nomination.

  176. 176.

    Mai naem mobile

    @rikyrah: oh,hell fucking no. Jeezus. Wtf. If that’s the case then we let every fucking prisoner out of prison and dump several hundred of the especially violent crime  ones into Andrew Yangs neighborhood.

  179. 179.

    hilts

    should we just start calling him Pete the guy from Indiana?

    It’s not factually accurate, but I like to refer to him as the Buddha of South Bend.

  183. 183.

    Mai naem mobile

    Okay Bernie is sounding like the Coca Cola  I’d Like to Teach the World ad.

    Stephanopoulos has always been douchey. Its like he got what he wanted from Clinton and then treated the Dems like they have cooties .

  185. 185.

    zhena gogolia

    I just saw the Biden question to Buttigieg on PB’s twitter. How disgusting that the journalists are doing Trump’s dirty work for him out in the open now. Vomit. Buttigieg gave a great answer.

  189. 189.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Gaah! There was fighting! There was blood! Let there be more fighting and blood and gore! Attack Democrats!

  191. 191.

    Marcopolo

    Good Sanders moment on the world spending $ on fighting climate change instead of on weapons.

    To reiterate, if I’m on that stage I try to pivot all my answers to attack Trump & I push back on the moderators for questions that assume some R talking point/position or beltway conventional wisdom view is actually right.

  197. 197.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Have you ever heard PDQ Bach’s commentary on the opening of Beethoven’s 9th Symphony? The break commentators sound just like that, only dumber. HORSE RACE AND FIGHTING!

  199. 199.

    Chris Johnson

    Not watching. The thing is, if these folks aren’t smart enough to know all this is a set up for wrecking them, they aren’t smart enough to be President.

    I think quite a few of them are smart enough to know what’s up. I’m gonna trust ’em with this. Anyway if there is no ‘all is lost!’ moment, the media will damn well invent one. So it’s a defensive game, because that’s the only game in town. Do your stump speech, hang together, and get out of there with as little damage to the Dems as possible, in spite of everything the moderators can do.

  201. 201.

    Another Scott

    ABC is doing play-by-play in the middle of the debate (after the big commercial break).

    It’s horrible.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  203. 203.

    Baud

    I’m voting for the first candidate who says “That’s a dumbass question, George.”

    Unless it’s Bernie.

  204. 204.

    jk

    @Betty Cracker:

    I like Klobuchar’s ability to speak in coherent sentences and paragraphs, even.

    This is where Biden’s white male privilege shines brightest.  I can’t imagine a woman or person of color who was as consistently incoherent as Uncle Joe ever attaining front runner status.

  205. 205.

    jl

    Maybe listening to these debates is affecting my brain for the worse. But I am enjoying the moderators and the talking heads. The little anchor discussion break has all the class, flair, and content of an NFL halftime BS session between smarmy sportscasters. The woman actually started to make some interesting points, but I assume a producer ordered her through the earpiece to knock it off.

    I find the news celeb behavior hilarious and I guess I am losing my mind.

  212. 212.

    206inKY

    Amy K is on fire. I was ready to jump ship for Bloomberg, but I think I need to keep the faith. I like how Bernie demonstrated why nobody lines him by insisting it was the Sanders-Klobucher amendment, not the other way around, when Amy was right in the middle of defending him.

  214. 214.

    JMG

    The reality is, every network moderator is there to do the bidding of their evil media conglomerate. They’re not journalists, and the Democrats should have had local reporters as moderators everywhere they went and told the networks to suck it if they didn’t want to cover it, accompanied by some unsubtle antitrust threats. But offending television is beyond the imagination of any American pol.

  218. 218.

    Marcopolo

    The purity of Amy Klobuchar’s hatred for Buttigieg is such a thing to behold. She’s like this close to doing Mayo Pete memes on Tik Tok.— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) February 8, 2020

  219. 219.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Yang is not good. I thought his rep was relaxed and human. That opiod answer wasn’t good.

  220. 220.

    Martin

    This blog needs to host a debate.

    1. Adam moderates foreign policy
    2. David moderates health care
    3. Cheryl moderates nuclear non-proliferation, energy policy?
    4. Betty and Anne Laurie can handle women’s health and name-calling of Trump.

    Seriously, there’s no fucking way we can’t do a better job.

  221. 221.

    jl

    @Baud: “You need help. Baud!Care! covers that.”

    Thanks for the offer. But right now, gallons of stale beer and bags of snack food  would make things worse.

    OMG, K mentioned dorritos! Is Baud 2020! mind channeling policy proposals to the candidates?

  223. 223.

    hilts

    @jl:

    Klobuchar seems to take personally Buttigieg’s doing better than she is.

    Klobuchar is obviously far more qualified than Pete to be President. so I think it’s perfectly reasonable for her to feel a little pissed off that he’s leading her in the polls.

  224. 224.

    O. Felix Culpa

    Finally, Bernie being called on his record on guns.

    ETA: He has a D- record from the NRA. Slacker. I would have an F.

  225. 225.

    patroclus

    Good pivot by Klobuchar on the gotcha question to the upcoming settlement on opiod pushers providing the funding for treatment facilities.  Glad to see her called on for the first time in nearly 45 minutes.

  228. 228.

    khead

    I don’t think Warren has spoken since before 9 PM. Amy has been cruising.

    ETA:  Spoke too soon about the Warren shutout I guess.

  234. 234.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Warren is giving a good answer. Too bad Steyer and Yang beat her in Iowa so they get more talk time. /s MSM really wants to erase her.

  236. 236.

    Another Scott

    SP Warren – we treat guns like a public health emergency, not a “one and done, or three and done” thing.

    Absolutely.

    And again she pivots to corruption.

    And she brings up the filibuster.

    Yeah.

    Ooh.  A SCOTUS question.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  243. 243.

    Marcopolo

    Warren fan but one of the reasons I love her (she understands problems & their solutions are complex) is a weakness because your average American wants a bumper sticker answer to a bumper sticker answer.

    Great answer on guns/ gun violence but I don’t know how many folks follow her all the way through. Yeah, I’m kinda down on my fellow average ‘mercans.

    Edited to add: Great answer on abortion from her as well.

  244. 244.

    jl

    Good on Biden for dunking Muir’s crap question. And good dunk on Muir’s crap follow-up. You try to punk, you risk the dunk, moderators.

    After moderators’ get called on their crap, they have adopted the strategy of acting willfully obtuse.

  251. 251.

    Martin

    @NotMax: Yeah, I think we need to have as many pets on the stage as possible – dogs, cats, ducks, chickens. Cole’s job is to track them down when they wander off. And Subaru valet.

  253. 253.

    JWR

    @jl:

    So that shithead asking the idiot foreign policy questions is pretty boy Muir?

    Came to this thread to say that David Muir is a complete shithead, so thank you for that.. The dude’s questions are truly idiotic.

  255. 255.

    jk

    @zhena gogolia:

    Biden is a gaffe gushering buffoon.  We need a nominee who’s nimble and can think quickly on his or her feet to combat the Rethuglican sleaze machine and Uncle Joe doesn’t fit that bill.

  258. 258.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Constitutional Amendments are the biggest wank answer/dodges in the book. It will be a cold day in hell next time one is passed.

    Bernie just said litmus test. Good for him.

  260. 260.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @Baud: Agreed. He can be very forthright and clear, and on the issue of Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood he was on point.

  261. 261.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @O. Felix Culpa: The Constitution only names certain rights.  Rights not named are unenumerated rights.  There is some argument over whether they exist under the Constitution.  I say they do but I an too fucking exhausted by this week to type out all the reasons.  Let’s just say that the right to privacy is an unenumerated right and then apply the pros and cons from any abortion debate.

  266. 266.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Say what you will about Steyer, but he is consistently pulling the conversation around to the awfulness of Trump and the overriding necessity of beating him in November. He’s done it again and again, and good for him.

  269. 269.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    Pete bravely discussed systemic racism but the numbers show he didn’t do shit about it. Very Pete answer.

    Nice follow up.  Again he’s dodging.

  271. 271.

    JMG

    One real good way to get back at the ABC anchors would be to say, in response to any question, that one of my first acts in office would be to launch an antitrust investigation of Walt Disney Co. They’d die of fear onstange.

  277. 277.

    Another Scott

    @O. Felix Culpa: She’s very good tonight.

    She’s using lots of words, but to me it shows that she understands how big the job is.  She’s not afraid to confront the size of the job that needs to be done.

    And now Yang is trying bro-splaining to her…  Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  282. 282.

    Marcopolo

    @O. Felix Culpa: Really interesting to compare how EW took full responsibility for the problems her AA workers had in NV compared to PB talking about his time in South Bend.

    I think her first words were “I believe these women. And I apologize to them. And I and my campaign need to do better.”

  286. 286.

    NotMax

    Not that it matters but just saw (and was not previously aware) that Buttigieg is a southpaw.

    (No, not going to start using sinister.)

  287. 287.

    Marcopolo

    The women have definitely ruled at the debate tonight. No doubt their performances will be overlooked.

  289. 289.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @khead: IIRC, the only one who has slavered at the prospect of engaging with Trump in a general election debate is Amy. As for other tactics for beating Trump, I don’t think any of the candidates has addressed the issue tonight. Certainly not in detail. I’m not generally a Steyer fan, but I give him props for repeatedly hauling the conversation back to the singular, compelling necessity of making certain Trump loses and loses big in November.

  290. 290.

    Shalimar

     

    @Martin: Parenthetically.

    Moderator question for the lightning round: If Tom Steyer spontaneously combusted,  would you throw money at him to put out the fire?

  291. 291.

    jl

    @Another Scott: I agree she is doing better than the others so far.

    And I agree that B was evasive. But OTOH, she started with an over elaborate premise to set up the question and which allowed B an opening to argue with her and make the case that she got her facts wrong.

    instead of acting like a shithead, like the other moderators, she clarified the question and effectively ditched the less relevant part of her premise, but too late.

    WTF is with these stupid habits with the moderators.

  297. 297.

    hilts

    Reading all these comments dissing the moderators reminds me of Capt. Renault’s line from Casablanca “I’m shocked. Shocked to find there’s gambling going on here.”

    I agree that these moderators suck, but when was there ever a golden age when we had debate moderators who posed insightful or thought provoking questions?

    I’ve always favored the idea of having print journalists from different beats such as healthcare, foreign affairs, and the environment serve as debate moderators, but as long as tv networks are calling the shots they’ll continue to use overpaid airhead celebrity “journalists” instead.

  301. 301.

    debbie

    @geg6:

    Having been an assistant, I’ve had a boss with a bad temper. If it had gotten to the point where something was thrown at me, I’d have a problem with my boss. Even if the boss was a woman. YMMV.

  302. 302.

    Marcopolo

    Lots of points to AK for bring up voting! Think we all know the moderators ain’t gonna broach this topic.

  308. 308.

    O. Felix Culpa

    I’m glad they’re having a discussion on race, but it feels awkward with only white people (plus Yang) doing it.

  310. 310.

    Another Scott

    @Baud: It’s wince-inducing, but too often it’s true.  Saying so is a way to get people to pay more attention.  I think it’s smart.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  311. 311.

    Ohio Mom

    I ust started watching. Awful sound system, everyone sounds like they are gasping for air. Not a good look.

  312. 312.

    Butter Emails

    @hilts:

    I agree that these moderators suck, but when was there ever a golden age when we had debate moderators who posed insightful or thought provoking questions?

    Yes. They didn’t suck nearly as hard when the League of Women Voters hosted them.

  318. 318.

    Another Scott

    Yang gives you oNe tHoUsAnd DoLLaRs to protect you from tsunamis.

    :-/

    I haven’t noticed that he’s such a “economics is everything” person before.  But he’s been beating that drum tonight.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  322. 322.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @hilts:

    I agree that these moderators suck, but when was there ever a golden age when we had debate moderators who posed insightful or thought provoking questions?

    I’m not sure how old you are, so it’s quite possible you genuinely don’t remember, but for years the League of Women Voters ran good, objective debates. I miss those days (and for the record I do try to keep up my LWV membership, although I admit I’m not active).

  323. 323.

    Mike in DC

    @Another Scott:

    Yang needs more than “automation is bad” and “everyone gets a grand a month” if he wants to be more than a novelty or gimmick candidate or politician going forward.

  327. 327.

    patroclus

    I like Klobuchar’s biography – nice pivot from the idiotic Bloomberg question to emphasize it.

  329. 329.

    Marcopolo

    @Mike in DC: Economists have pretty roundly debunked the job stealing robot argument that Yang is making. It’s a little involved but the fundamental thing is productivity is not going up as much as it should if robots were really displacing workers.

  330. 330.

    Another Scott

    @O. Felix Culpa: He does!  And it’s the same answer he had 4 years ago!  He’s so consistent and pure that he doesn’t need to listen and consider the question or learn anything!!

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  333. 333.

    jl

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    ” Bernie: I have an answer before the question. ”

    Well, why not, given how horrible the questions have been most of the time? And in fairness to BS, he knew, as did I, that the moderator was going to waste everyone’s time gagging up the same question.

    I’m glad that the candidates have a chance to bash Bloomberg, and so far, also give them a chance to give effectively reshearse their closing statements.

    But, Bloomberg is not there and can’t respond. Offends my sense of fairness. And so many issues not addressed.

  335. 335.

    Duane

    @hilts: Mayor Pete isn’t from South Bend? Also, I’d rather be called the Buddha of South Bend than Puberty Pete. Probably heard that enough in college.

  336. 336.

    O. Felix Culpa

    @jl: But but but we’re now doing something about climate change and trade.

    Klobuchar back in the house. And defending the NH senators’ vote on the trade deal.

  338. 338.

    Marcopolo

    @jl: Bloomberg will most likely be at the next debate.  And the Warren campaign has been arguing to get him on the stage because being able to run hundreds of millions of dollars of ads while mostly dodging public events with voters means he cannot be held accountable/asked questions like he could on a debate stage.

  339. 339.

    mad citizen

    @Marcopolo: There was a decent CBS Sunday Morning story on this last year.  It’s been a long-term fear.  The thing is, there will be jobs 30 40 50 years from now that no one can imagine now.  Plus our populations will decline, or will have to decline due to keeping the planet habitable.

     

    And if all this fails, there is always makework, my current favorite word.

  340. 340.

    jl

    Muir, who I will simply refer to as Shithead  from now on, manages to ask a question so incoherent that I can’t really figure out what it is about. Other than to cram as many GOP talking points and advertise as many fake Trumpster achievements, and try for as many gotchas as possible.

    I think S, K and W, all give good answers, even though they disagree.

  344. 344.

    Martin

    @Marcopolo: It’s not that robots reduce the job count, it’s that they take YOUR job.

    There are vastly fewer farmers in the US than there were a century ago, despite them being productive enough to feed vastly more people. A lot of farm jobs have been eliminated over time. Now more new jobs were created, but farmers weren’t necessarily qualified to do those.

    The coding coal miner problem is a real problem that is deserving of a real solution.

  345. 345.

    hilts

    @NotMax:

    @Butter Emails:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I appreciated the efforts of the League of Women Voters, but unfortunately that ship has sailed and it’s not coming back.

    These debates, like almost everything else right now, are seriously fucked up and if Trump wins again, this planet will be fucked beyond repair.

  346. 346.

    jl

    @Marcopolo: That is good point. Bloomberg’s own arrogant strategy and unlimited money is why he is not there.

    I don’t like K’s throwing around her authentic iron miner’s daughter stuff. But would have been nice if she could have mentioned that Bloomberg is pretending his early life was much humbler than it actually was.

  347. 347.

    Brachiator

    @Marcopolo:

    Economists have pretty roundly debunked the job stealing robot argument that Yang is making. It’s a little involved but the fundamental thing is productivity is not going up as much as it should if robots were really displacing workers.

    Productivity is a function of demand, not just robot efficiency.

    There is no question that automation and technological innovation has eliminated many jobs, and have also partly resulted in lower wages for the jobs that remain.

    But there is also all kinds of displacement and yeh, new jobs. I’ve seen something recently about how Amazon puts stores out of business but has created more warehouse and delivery jobs.

  350. 350.

    Another Scott

    @Marcopolo:

    CEPR – Blame the policies, not the robots:

    The claim that automation is responsible for massive job losses has been made in almost every one of the Democratic debates. In the last debate, technology entrepreneur Andrew Yang told of automation closing stores on Main Street and of self-driving trucks that would shortly displace “3.5 million truckers or the 7 million Americans who work in truck stops, motels, and diners” that serve them. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (Hawaii) suggested that the “automation revolution” was at “the heart of the fear that is well-founded.”

    When Sen. Elizabeth Warren (Mass.) argued that trade was a bigger culprit than automation, the fact-checker at the Associated Press claimed she was “off” and that “economists mostly blame those job losses on automation and robots, not trade deals.”

    In fact, such claims about the impact of automation are seriously at odds with the standard data that we economists rely on in our work. And because the data so clearly contradict the narrative, the automation view misrepresents our actual current challenges and distracts from effective solutions.

    Output-per-hour, or productivity, is one of those key data points. If a firm applies a technology that increases its output without adding additional workers, its productivity goes up, making it a critical diagnostic in this space.

    Contrary to the claim that automation has led to massive job displacement, data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) show that productivity is growing at a historically slow pace. Since 2005, it has been increasing at just over a 1 percent annual rate. That compares with a rate of almost 3 percent annually in the decade from 1995 to 2005.

    This productivity slowdown has occurred across advanced economies. If the robots are hiding from the people compiling the productivity data at BLS, they are also managing to hide from the statistical agencies in other countries.

    Furthermore, the idea that jobs are disappearing is directly contradicted by the fact that we have the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. The recovery that began in June 2009 is the longest on record. To be clear, many of those jobs are of poor quality, and there are people and places that have been left behind, often where factories have closed. But this, as Warren correctly claimed, was more about trade than technology.

    Consider, for example, the “China shock” of the 2000s, when sharply rising imports from countries with much lower-paid labor than ours drove up the U.S. trade deficit by 2.4 percentage points of GDP (almost $520 billion in today’s economy). From 2000 to 2007 (before the Great Recession), the country lost 3.4 million manufacturing jobs, or 20 percent of the total.

    Addressing that loss, Susan Houseman, an economist who has done exhaustive, evidence-based analysis debunking the automation explanation, argues that “intuitively and quite simply, there doesn’t seem to have been a technology shock that could have caused a 20 to 30 percent decline in manufacturing employment in the space of a decade.” What really happened in those years was that policymakers sat by while millions of U.S. factory workers and their communities were exposed to global competition with no plan for transition or adjustment to the shock, decimating parts of Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania. That was the fault of the policymakers, not the robots.

    Before the China shock, from 1970 to 2000, the number (not the share) of manufacturing jobs held remarkably steady at around 17 million. Conversely, since 2010 and post-China shock, the trade deficit has stabilized and manufacturing has been adding jobs at a modest pace. (Most recently, the trade war has significantly dented the sector and worsened the trade deficit.) Over these periods, productivity, automation and robotics all grew apace.

    In other words, automation isn’t the problem. We need to look elsewhere to craft a progressive jobs agenda that focuses on the real needs of working people.

    First and foremost, the low unemployment rate — which wouldn’t prevail if the automation story were true — is giving workers at the middle and the bottom a bit more of the bargaining power they require to achieve real wage gains. The median weekly wage has risen at an annual average rate, after adjusting for inflation, of 1.5 percent over the past four years. For workers at the bottom end of the wage ladder (the 10th percentile), it has risen 2.8 percent annually, boosted also by minimum wage increases in many states and cities.

    To be clear, these are not outsize wage gains, and they certainly are not sufficient to reverse four decades of wage stagnation and rising inequality. But they are evidence that current technologies are not preventing us from running hotter-for-longer labor markets with the capacity to generate more broadly shared prosperity.

    National minimum wage hikes will further boost incomes at the bottom. Stronger labor unions will help ensure that workers get a fairer share of productivity gains. Still, many toiling in low-wage jobs, even with recent gains, will still be hard-pressed to afford child care, health care, college tuition and adequate housing without significant government subsidies.

    Contrary to those hawking the automation story, faster productivity growth — by boosting growth and pretax national income — would make it easier to meet these challenges. The problem isn’t and never was automation. Working with better technology to produce more efficiently, not to mention more sustainably, is something we should obviously welcome.

    The thing to fear isn’t productivity growth. It’s false narratives and bad economic policy.

    (Emphasis added.)

    Especially given the climate change crisis, we should be doing everything we can to increase efficiency. That means better machines, and it means making stuff closer to home, making stuff that lasts, making stuff that serves a real need, etc. But people need to survive and thrive as well – that’s where government policy is essential.

    Yang spouts pablum that isn’t even internally consistent. He’s stayed around far too long.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  356. 356.

    J R in WV

    @Brachiator:

    Yes, Amazon provides a lot of jobs… I read today that a major Amazon warehouse in AZ was more dangerous than working in a prison… so?

     

    ETA.   …That $1,000/month guarantee isn’t nearly enough to make up for a job.

  357. 357.

    NotMax

    @J R in WV

    Too unmotivated to look it up. Does Yang’s ‘plan’ apply to all ages? The Duggars would get $21,000 per month (two parents plus 19 progeny)?

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