It’s Lear jet, you dumb fuck. “Leer jet” is what Epstein had.
This is just petty horseshit designed to stir up a bunch of Sanders supporters (not that it’s a big trick for some of them, I grant you). There are tons of good, substantive attacks you can launch against Sanders. Besides being petty, MOM is too lazy to trot out a few. (Examples: Sanders has been in Congress a long time but didn’t get a lot done, his plans are vague and pie in the sky, the people’s revolution rhetoric will inevitably lead to disappointment, etc.)
Also, if you want to see what Sanders actually did for Clinton, this mashup and this report from noted BernieBro Rachel Maddow both show a pretty engaged campaigner who crossed the country for HRC. So maybe he did need a jet, because he was a valuable asset to the campaign. The massive assist that O’Malley brought to the table probably merited a worn out crop duster, or maybe a red wagon dragged around by the most junior staffer in the Astabula office.
Open thread.
Elizabelle
FFS Mister Mix.
Just: no. What a shitty topic for a blogpost. Enjoy yourself.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Ditto.
lol chikinburd
This post, with this title…um…
oatler.
I got a weal wed wagon!
Elizabelle
@Baud: Betty Cracker had been wondering what I meant about MM trolling his own blog over the previous week.
Oh Betty C ….
Baud
@Elizabelle: Of all the tweets on all of Twitter, he had to complain about this one.
TC
The party insiders are looking increasingly desperate.
frosty
Agreed with previous commenters. Ugh. Is it possible to pie a front-pager? Because I’m just about there.
Cacti
Doesn’t every working class hero deserve a Lear Jet, chartered flights to the Vatican with lobster ravioli, a new lake house, a dark money slush fund for the “revolution”, a prime spot on the books by politicians grifting circuit, etc.?
Seriously MM. You Bernfeelers are like something out of the old Soviet politburo, with your endless list of excuses for Dear Leader.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@lol chikinburd:
You do make a good point. I am sometimes a self-parody and a great specimen of the weakness of human nature when presented with something that tweaks their anger.
MisterForkbeard
MM has been generally fine lately. That said:
Agree that this is unnecessary.
A Ghost To Most
Rock on, dude. You’re pissing off the social butterflies.
Cacti
Thanks so much Bernie, for sitting smugly at the Dem convention, and doing nothing to rein in your spoiled brat followers as they booed everyone who wasn’t you.
Totally worth those Lear Jet rides.
zhena gogolia
@frosty:
Just scroll by. Cheryl has a good post down below.
BroD
MOM & MM should step away from their devices. Me, too.
gvg
Look in a mirror. MO’M is not the one who looks bitter here, nor am I dissing Sanders. You are making a huge deal out of something trivial. Perhaps you have become addicted to outrage? Because the rest of us would never have seen this tweet if not for you digging around and finding it somewhere.
terry chay
It must suck to have been a Sanders supporter and know that others you encouraged to support him elected Trump in 2016.
Truth hurts. Looks like someone touched a nerve.
the rest of us are like, “Martin O Malley who?” Lol!
Ksmiami
Bernie will lose 40 states but you do you
paradox
The knives are out for Bernie, this is just the beginning. Markos knifed him at <em>Daily Kos</em> a few minutes ago.
No one wanted a repeat of 2016, so there has been a lot of restraint shown toward that sex-haired socialist. It’s obviously gone now, get out some really thick composite armor, Bernie, the heavy rounds–many of them–are yet to come in.
patroclus
It’s not exactly a unifying message to tell fellow Democrats whose support you will ultimately need to “Go Away” along with a profane name. If Bernie wants my support, I hope that he goes about it in a different way.
Cacti
@paradox: Might as well get it over with now, rather than give him the kid gloves again and wait for the R’s to bury him with it in the general.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: Thanks, I now see that we have a different definition of trolling. I can see where bringing this topic up would piss people off since Sanders is so hated on this blog. But it’s timely (O’Malley just said it in the middle of a hotly contested primary), and it’s relevant (Sanders is a front-runner in the Democratic primary right now).
cope
Good on you, Mr. M, you must have know what a swirling swarm this post would stir up. I reckon this is close to a positive post we will ever see on here about Sanders.
I’m no Bernie bro but christ on a crutch, my gob is smacked by the level of vitriol the slightest reference to him or his campaign evokes. Like there aren’t more serious threats and issues about which to be enraged.
Welcome to 6th grade.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: You and I might have a different definition of trolling.
I think bitter shit-stirring is one of my definitions, come to mention it. What purpose does this serve?
I really don’t like the heavily negative blogposts, and generally avoid them when they arrive. We need strength and courage and optimism that we will prevail. Stuff like this is a total zero to me.
Betty Cracker
@Chyron HR: I am saying this as a fellow commenter, not as a blog administrator: please stop putting slurs in other commenters’ mouths. You did it with the n-word in the thread downstairs, and now “butt boy.” Really? Just please cut that shit out.
MisterForkbeard
@paradox: If you’re referring to this (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/2/7/1917458/-It-doesn-t-matter-who-we-nominate-Republicans-will-NEVER-work-for-them-not-even-Bernie) that’s not exactly knifing Bernie.
It’s just noting that Republicans won’t work with anyone.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@paradox: Here’s the article if anyone is looking for it:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/2/7/1917458/-It-doesn-t-matter-who-we-nominate-Republicans-will-NEVER-work-for-them-not-even-Bernie
He says basically what I said above and identified it as a legit critique of Sanders:
Beating Sanders by trotting out surrogates like MOM and making petty little comments isn’t going to work. This is a far more reasonable and effective critique. (BTW, I agree with the comment above that this isn’t a complete Bernie hatchet job, but it does raise a legit criticism.)
Thanks for the heads-up.
kindness
MM….don’t wear your Bernie love on your sleeve so much. It takes away from your front page posts. Whiney isn’t a good look.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
Post title could easily be directed at Wilmer, so there’s that. :-)
Major Major Major Major
I was unimpressed by the substance of Bernie’s campaigning for Hillary in 2016 (what Hillary did post-convention in 2008 is my gold standard), but it would be silly to pretend he didn’t give a lot of speeches in a lot of places encouraging his supporters to vote for her.
It didn’t work on the 25% who didn’t vote for Hillary, but it was the right thing to do and I don’t get the impression it was his idea of a good time.
tldr Why are you saying this, Martin? Who is this for?
WhatsMyNym
@terry chay:
I’ve seen the name on this blog, must be from the east.
Cacti
Stop blowing smoke, MM. The she-beast Hillary Clinton made the same observation, and you concern trolled it.
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: Do all of the posts around here have to serve a purpose, other than the amusement of the participants? I think they often do, but sometimes not. I’ve learned a lot from original posts and the comments, and we’re raised a lot of money for Democrats and pets, of course. But a lot of what goes on around here could be accurately described as shit-stirring, depending on your point of view.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Now I’m curious. Do you think timeliness and relevance preclude troll status? I think trolls don’t stick to material that is untimely and irrelevant.
I’m asking in general, not about this post.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
That’s a Casablanca reference, isn’t it? Fun fact: There’s a “real” Rick’s Cafe in Casablanca, Morocco
Chris Johnson
obvious attempt to create a flame thread says what?
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Casablanca is Spanish for White House, so it all comes full circle.
Blew your mind, didn’t I?
Kent
How much did Biden or Bloomberg or Warren campaign for Hillary in 2016?
I’m no Bernie fan, lord knows. But seriously. How did Biden’s 2016 campaign activities in support of Hillary during the general election compare with Bernie? These are knowable questions. And don’t tell me that Biden had a day job. So did Bernie.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@cope:
Yes, and what really gets me is that most of the vitriol-based critiques are absolutely ineffective. I think it’s healthy for people to raise concerns about the front-runner, but those concerns have to be based on reality and not be simple, lazy slurs. MOM’s tweet – which, btw, was in my feed multiple times this morning retweeted by non-BernieBros – is to me a prime example of the lazy, offhand slur. It’s part of why Bernie is the front runner. Nobody’s taken him seriously enough to really address his weaknesses. And, let’s see what he does when decent critics engage on substantive issues. That’s an important piece of information for the primary voter.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cope:
People hate him because he’s an egotistical asshole with an authoritarian streak
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Chris Johnson:
Actually, once we got past the first few comments, I think this discussion is relatively constructive.
TC
@Chyron HR: Boomer, quit SHOUTING, we hear you.
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): this probably describes most successful career politicians.
Cacti
Well, he helped elect Donald Trump once, and there’s no indication he won’t do it a second time.
But other than that, he seems like a swell guy.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: Agree with this. Sanders did campaign for Clinton, but her criticism was that he didn’t do so with the same enthusiasm and purpose she did for Obama, and that seems mostly true as well. I think Sanders’ failure to rein in his crew at the convention was a much worse offense, and Sanders compounded that by hiring a lot of those folks for his 2020 campaign.
paradox
I don’t hate Bernie Sanders, and this is the first negative thing I’ve said about him all year.
Bernie deliberately attacked and smashed up the first female Democratic nominee for President. For many millions it just came off as plain sexist and they hate him for it.
Others in the Party watched the incredible fight and then the ultimate horror of a Clinton loss. Bernie contributed to that immeasurably and they hate him for it.
That’s not 6th grade immaturity, that’s plain hatred–hatred sprung from terrible, terrible wounds to Party and country that hurt beyond belief. We used to be the greatest country in the world, now we’re a pile of authoritarian dog shit, it dives people absolutely livid, that’s not 6th grade immaturity either.
For the life of me I cannot understand how the brutal baggage of the last election is just ignored by Bernie. You chose it, home, now go out and try to live through the artillery barrage, you earned it, you really, really pissed off a lot of people.
ACinNC
Every word that Hillary and Martin have said is the truth. Did not think I could dislike Wilmer and the Bro’s more. Thanks for that anyway . Trump = Bernie, Russia loves unqualified HSS’s, IMHO. Can’t believe I de-lurked for this .
GoBlue72
What this blog really needs is another front page post by Anne Laurie obsessing over how Sanders personally insulted her.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
Second worse. The worst offense was remaining silent when Donald Trump invoked his name to spread the lie about the “rigged primary.” I understand Bernie couldn’t speak up to refute the allegation without exposing himself, but the fact that he said nothing made him complicit in the conspiracy theory.
Cacti
Now imagine for a moment that it’s the general election, and Bernie’s the nominee (FSM forbid).
Along with beating him over the head about his decades of loving Marxism, Cuba, and the Soviet Union…Expect to also see a blizzard of ads aimed at women voters from the right wing dark money machine, about the unending attacks of Bernie’s toxic bro-culture on the first female Democratic nominee.
J R in WV
OK, open thread, so.
Yesterday I went to town for the weekly shopping expedition. Wine, fresh fish, frozen food, a pot roast, you get the picture. Two large bags of dog food, one weight loss for the older big white lab, one puppy chow for the two black puppies. Rained a lot yesterday. Wednesday I fired up the tractor and used the back hoe to clean out the culverts under the road up to the shop, which were clogged with leaves to the point we had a small lake backed up and some road gravel washed out. I replaced that too.
There was rain at bedtime, changing to snow over night. The dogs were kinda hysterical, in and out, in and out, and never all at once. Particularly around dawn. For at least a couple of hours. Yawn. But once they came in and I got back to sleep, slept nearly to noon.
The snow stuck to the wet branches, so every twig is covered by snow. It is gorgeous outside, bright white overcast light reflecting off of everything. AND I don’t have to go anywhere for, well, as long as the DF lasts. And cat kibble. or wine.
And it is still snowing… tho not deep, the ground wasn’t pre-chilled enough for it to stick at first, and it’s melting underneath faster than it’s snowing.
Neighbor’s weather station tells me it’s 31.7 outside, and we’ve had 1.37 inches of rain this week. I think this k as much snow as the pups have experienced…. they’re tall dogs, long legged rangy type of pups, I can’t wait for them to encounter 18-20 inches of snow, they would have to leap around, and they’re shiny black too. Hilarious, it will be.
Major Major Major Major
@Betty Cracker: his explicitly stated strategy is to divide the Democrats into a bunch of factions smaller than his base, so it’s not surprising that this is how he and his surrogates are campaigning.
Whether this will work after the first convention ballot (assuming he takes a plurality) is of course unknowable.
Eric U.
Bernie supporters think that this year’s Iowa disaster shows the whole primary season was rotten and Bernie probably won last time. Totally ignoring the fact that the reason the DNC still allows caucuses after the caucus shit-show last time is because Bernie’s people insisted on it
I think there is now a kerfuffle on twitter about the necessity of panicking over the newly empowered Trump.
MattF
A hopeful sign: 62% of New Hampshire Democrats would rather see a giant meteor strike the earth and extinguish all human life than see President Trump get re-elected.
Jeffro
Hey while everyone’s opining about O’Malley, Sanders, and the like, trumpov & Co are trying to rally the troops…”let’s take back the House so we can expunge trumpov’s impeachment from the record!”
Yes, really. The most corrupt American president* ever, by a loooong mile, and their priority is to expunge. the. record.
Thanks, GOP Senators! He’s really learned from this experience!
Barbara
@paradox: We are not allowed to have feefees. Only those who support BS are allowed to have feefees. MM has already informed us of this (we are supposed to “get over it” for the common good).
Seriously, I do not hate Bernie, think O’Malley should stay out of the fray (and I mean, this is really weak tea when you think about it), but yeah, the knee jerk “haw darez you criticize my candidate!!!” that seems to be the reflex reaction of Sanders’ supporters is not going to work in the general election. Find better comebacks that don’t sound like you are admitting the critique is correct you just don’t want to have to admit it. Sanders rode private jets. Probably most candidates do at one time or another. Who gives a flying fuck?
Jeffro
@MattF: I believe it. Whatever’s beyond white-hot rage, that’s where I’m at post-impeachment. I figured I wasn’t the only Dem there either.
J R in WV
@GoBlue72:
What this blog needed was the most excellent implementation of the pie filter that the developers and WaterGirl carried out. Thank you Developers, thank you WaterGirl, thank you John G Cole!!!
heh, it worked!!
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Major Major Major Major: This is reasonable, and I really don’t know what MOM was trying to accomplish. He seems like a relatively competent former governor of a blue state, a reasonable technocrat, etc. Weird way for him to shoot his shot.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: No, timeliness and relevance don’t preclude trolling, by my definition. I mention them because every time MM (who supports Warren!) says anything remotely positive about Sanders on a political blog that focuses on Democratic politics, he’s accused of trolling.
I think trolling is the willful, repeated disruption of a community for the purpose of destroying it altogether, distracting it to effect some nefarious end or derailing an ongoing conversation so it can’t continue. I don’t believe MM is doing any of that, but I understand definitions of trolling, along with mileage, vary.
Cacti
@GoBlue72: Hello young fellow. Still hanging out at the end of the bar, creeping out women young enough to be your daughter?
WhatsMyNym
Learjet…it’s funny that Sanders wanted a jet from a Canadian based company, instead of one based in the good old USA.
TC
Good question, does make one wonder why MOM felt the need to toss that stink bomb into an increasingly contentious primary. Can’t supporters of all the candidates agree this MOM tweet is not helpful? Isn’t that point to MM’s post?
MJS
There’s shit-stirrin’ going on here, and it isn’t just Martin O’Malley. Now, excuse me while I go through old BJ posts to find another one dedicated to something Martin tweeted in the last 3-4 years, given his status as a kingmaker in the Democratic party. I should be right back.
Kent
You mean that 38% of New Hampshire Democrats support Trump? That doesn’t seem like a good sign to me. (I’m on a school network that blocks twitter so I can’t click through to your link)
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Barbara:
This is a gross misrepresentation of what I said to you in a comment thread a day or two ago.
MJS
@TC: Yes, by all means, let’s amplify unhelpful tweets. We wouldn’t want to let unhelpful tweets die of neglect.
MisterForkbeard
@MisterForkbeard:
I take this back. KOS included the following: “And then there’s the final point—Bernie Sanders has never, never, never, never, ever in his life worked to rally and build support for any policy proposals. That’s why his legislative career is bereft of any accomplishments.”
So yeah, he’s definitely giving Bernie the finger. Can’t imagine that will go over well, since Bernie fans are all over dailykos.
Barbara
@download my app in the app store mistermix: What you said is open to interpretation and that was mine. However, if that truly is not what you meant then I apologize. Unlike some, I really have no intent of stirring the pot. You also might not be thinking of the same post I am.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Lol that’s pretty good : )
@Major Major Major Major:
Bernie’s a different story. His defense of undemocratic, unrepresentative caucuses is completely self-serving. His overall apparent campaign strategy bothers the hell out of me. He doesn’t care if he doesn’t win a majority of votes in the primaries to get the nomination. He’s perfectly fine emulating Trump’s 2016 GOP primary strategy.
Not to mention he tried claiming that, basically, southern primaries were unfair and “skewed” the primary race in 2016. Black voters make up a majority of the Dem primary base in the South. They’re the ones that do a lot of grunt work for us. It was a huge slap in the face and plain whiney of him
WaterGirl
@frosty: You can pie anyone who comments.
Josie
@paradox:
This.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jeffro:
….Could they do that? “Expunge” Trump’s impeachment that is? Even if they did, it won’t change the fact that it happened
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Barbara:
Thank you. The comment I was referring to was one where I explained that my daughter’s friends are Bernie supporters, and why. I made another comment where I said I didn’t use Pete’s nickname and I don’t think we should use “Wilmer” as a nickname for Bernie. Maybe that’s the one you meant.
People have since told me that “Wilmer” was an attempt to substitute for “Sanders” to keep trolls out of threads. I wasn’t around (busy with a new job and life stuff) when that appellation was coined, and assumed it was a slur. I still think it’s a little inside baseball, but whatevs.
In any event, I don’t think anyone’s feelings are privileged, but I also think that it’s not fair for people to dunk on Sanders incessantly then complain when another Democrat is criticized (with legitimate criticisms, not stupid ad hominems like MOM used above). I think we just need to be fair about it.
Baud
@Betty Cracker: I appreciate the response.
Martin
@Major Major Major Major: Yep.
Look everyone, there’s one job here – removing Trump in 2020. Tearing down Bernie or Bloomberg or Biden or Klobouchar or Pete doesn’t help toward that goal. None of these people are going to veto Dem bills and all of them will veto GOP bills with only minor variations. None of them are going to violate basic constitutional norms. All have their weak and strong points.
We can debate who best epitomizes the kind of democracy we wish to see, but how much influence over implementing that democracy does Hillary Clinton have right now? None – because she lost. If a world exists where Bernie could have beaten Trump, we’d all be immeasurably better off right now (I personally doubt he could have).
The damage Trump is doing is orders of magnitude more than the worst Dem candidate will do, so people really need to knock this shit off. If you make Bernie or any of the others unacceptable to Democrats, and that person ends up winning the primary, then congratulations, you just handed the election to Trump. That applies to the Bernie Bros as well as the Bernie critics. If you think you’re beating the Bernie Bros by stooping to their level, you aren’t – you’re just creating a new class of Anti-Bernie Bro.
Anything other than a vote for the Dem nominee is a vote for Trump. It may not feel that way, but the way our election system works, that’s precisely what it is.
Elizabelle
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
You keep saying this. Although — it’s 2020. So he is a Democrat. Now.
JMG
Why on earth waste a nanosecond worrying about what Martin O’Malley thinks? As for Bernie, he could win the nomination and I’d then support him even though I think he’d be a pretty poor President. I don’t think he can win, though, except by essentially blackmailing the non-Bernie majority to get behind him by threatening a party split. His most devout online fans are highly annoying, but it was easy for them to be paranoid and whiny when they only had Clinton as an opponent. A lot harder to charge 5 or 6 candidates of being in cahoots.
GBVA
This is crazy! The percentage of people who engage with politics on the internet with the kind of depth and frequency necessary to know what you mean by “Bernie’s toxic bro culture” is so vanishingly small as to be irrelevant. I feel like Dems on the internet, whether they like Bernie or hate him, seriously overestimate the extent to which online hysteria on both sides of his candidacy actually reaches non-terminally-online people where they are. The average democrat likes Bernie, at about the same rate as his competitors. He is unremarkable save for being to the left of his competitors. All of this stuff is invisible.
Baud
Perhaps we should have a few more posts on Buttigieg, since he seems to be kicking ass out of the gate, and prior posts and comments haven’t been too kind to him.
Just a suggestion for the BJ suggestion box.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker: We could have a Baxter thread?
Isn’t he doing something cute today? Or, just being Baxter?
Fresh air, please.
J R in WV
Senator Barney (sic) Sanders is not my favorite candidate for president this year. In fact he is nearly my least favorite candidate after Trump and Tulsi — the three of them are all Russian stooges in one way or another.
Stonekettle’s twitter feed is really funny, by the way.
Still snowing here. Glad it’s melting underneath…
ETA from Stonekettle:
Many health insurers regard life as a pre-existing condition. Just saying… they will find something, anything, to take away coverage at the first sign of serious illness. And we know who is fighting the ACA in court and the congress..!!!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@JMG:
His conspiracy-minded supporters just blame the supposedly all-powerful DNC. That’s the boogeyman
Martin
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Wilmer is not a slur. It is very inside baseball, and I also think it’s utility has long passed. We aren’t being inundated with new accounts every time someone mentions Sanders.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Elizabelle:
And does that give him the legitimacy to be treated with the same respect we afford the other candidates? I should hope so.
joel hanes
This kind of post is unhelpful, and quite possibly counterproductive.
If we really really work at it, we can make the various factions within the Democratic Party so focused on internal spats and hurt feelings that we lose the general election.
low-tech cyclist
Funny how the moderates get all “you’re doing Trump’s work for him!” when people attack Biden. But their problem isn’t with the intraparty attacks; it’s only with their direction. Center attacking left is A-OK, apparently.
Clinton and O’Malley need to shaddup so I can hate on Bernie without feeling like I’m aiding the work of Democratic Party insiders.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Martin: Agreed. Thanks
Martin
@GBVA: But her emails!
Look, 2016 showed that if you dump enough social media targeted shit into the wild, you will reach enough voters – or at least the NYT editors. 2016 was the prototype. 2020 will be the refined version. It will be 5x worse at least.
pamelabrown53
@GBVA:
This “average” Democrat who eschews platforms like Facebook and Twitter. watched with horror and anger as Bernie supporters did their best to wreck our convention…and Bernie did nada to rein them in.
Chyron HR
@low-tech cyclist:
Protip: Gun-humping white nationalist Bernie Sanders isn’t the “left”.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@low-tech cyclist:
You gave your fellow low-tech cyclist, me, a chuckle. Thanks.
satby
@paradox: yep, this. It’s exactly why I hate him. And I do hate him. Also because he’s poisoned a lot of younger people against our political system. And yeah, it may suck sometimes, but it’s the only one we have.
Gravenstone
@Kent:
Since none of those three were primary opponents of hers in 2016, this non sequitur is relevant how?
patroclus
@Baud: I actually favor Bernie over Buttigieg. Despite Bernie’s votes on immigration, guns and trade, with which I disagree, he at least has an actual record as an elected representative in Congress and the Senate. And that record, by and large, is consistently with the Dem Caucus. Even though he doesn’t have much of a history of getting good things accomplished on his own, Sanders is at least part of all Democratic initiatives over the past few decades.
Buttigieg, by contrast, has no national record whatsoever. He says good things, but how can I really trust him given his dearth of a record. To me, Mayor Pete is no more qualified to be President than I am. Small town mayor and McKinsey employee just isn’t enough for me to even consider him.
I’m still for Klobuchar, but if comes down to Sanders or Buttigieg, it’s going to be Sanders for me. And it’s not even close.
Elizabelle
You know what I would love? A daily, or every other day thread, where we share links to articles that we found informative and maybe are not getting much play elsewhere.
We hail from a lot of different areas, and countries. It would be cool to highlight good journalism, but please be sure to identify the source and warn us if there’s a paywall. No blind links to paywalls, please.
Does not have to be a current article, either. Just something that you think explains something you follow. It can even be our own respite suggestions.
Martin
@joel hanes: I think that was well underway long before this post.
Everyone’s individual task is pretty simple:
Cacti
Right. It’s just a total coincidence that R’s have kept their powder dry on Bernie for 5-years now, and even talk him up when the opportunity arises.
satby
@Baud: yeah, let’s let everyone take their Mayo Pete (hur, hur, hur, he’s so white, get it?) and other homophobic nicknames out for another stroll. That’ll go well.
Baud
@patroclus: I would choose Bernie over Buttigieg if I only cared about policy. But since policy is mostly the work of Congress, and is less important this year because of the need to repair the damage Trump has done, the most important thing to me is the character of the candidate and his relationship to work with other decent people in the party. It’s those things that put Bernie at the bottom of the list for me.
Elizabelle
@satby: I feel that way too, satby. MomSense’s comment yesterday was chilling, because I am sure her kids are picking up life as delivered by social media.
Will go find the comment now.
pamelabrown53
@Chyron HR:
Seriously, such extreme comments don’t help your cause, (I, too, am anyone but Bernie) but instead cement you as a crank and a zealot.
Baud
@satby: I thought we had reached consensus that we would be kind and positive toward all of our candidates and their supporters from here on out.
Elizabelle
@Cacti: Hugh Hewitt is suggesting that Republicans vote for Bernie in the South Carolina primary.
Why would that be, do you think?
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Elizabelle: Someone wrote me a note about blind links to paywalls with the same request. Frankly, it’s tough. I would have to annotate every link, since basically everything is behind a paywall. I read every post multiple times to proofread and re-word (it’s harder than you’d think) and so that was just a bridge too far.
I have been trying to use the Guardian more, since they are more of a nag wall than a pay wall.
Edited to add: On desktop browsers, you can float your mouse over before you click and the link is on the lower-left bottom of your browser window.
Martin
Bloomberg and Warren did quite a bit. Biden was still in office. I think all of them did quite a bit in the sphere in which they ere most influential. Bloomberg endorsed her in a speech at the convention and urged all independents to vote for her. Warren and Biden traveled and campaigned for her.
SiubhanDuinne
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Well, they did it with Andrew Jackson. It was a censure, not an impeachment, but I suppose it’s some kind of precedent.
ETA: And how many people today even know that AJ was censured at all? Relatively few, I’m guessing.
Steeplejack
@mistermix:
So it’s open season on typos, brain blips and minor errors? Oh, boy!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
I’m not sure SC would agree w/ you re: Gabbard. Tulsi’s a member of some nutso Hindu cult associated with the BJP, isn’t she? And then she defended the Assad regime in Syria and has denied that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons against it’s own citizens
Cacti
@Elizabelle: Probably the same reason Kellyanne Conway wrote an op-ed in the WaPo talking him up.
Because they all just respect him so darn much. ;-) ;-)
Betty Cracker
@GBVA:
I think this is true. But it’s also true that Sanders hired and/or employs as surrogates the most toxic, anti-Democratic Party extremists from 2016, including Sirota, West, Turner, Sarandon, etc. Those folks don’t run/contribute to his online campaign; they are his campaign.
As Major said above, Sanders’ strategy — online and off — is to divide the party so that his faction is the largest and win the nomination from there, then, presumably, unite the party around himself.
Given what happened in 2016, that strikes a lot of us as really dangerous. So, while I think a lot of anti-Sanders people go way too far, I can understand their concern. I share it, even though I’ll vote for Sanders if he’s the nominee.
Chyron HR
@pamelabrown53:
Just as a ballpark guess, what do you think is the maximum length of time Bernie’s ever gone without explicitly stating that he’s here to fight for the downtrodden WHITE working class, while dismissing everyone else in the country as “identity politics”?
Or do you object to characterizing him as a “gun humper”? Would you prefer “NRA lapdog”?
satby
@Baud:
This is important, and why Pete comes out light years ahead of Bernie for me if Warren fades.
Gravenstone
@Martin:
Yet… //
Elizabelle
@download my app in the app store mistermix: It’s great that, with the new format, we can hover over the blue and often get a take on what site it’s from. I really like that.
Problem occurs when the link has one of those supertruncated names and you are not given the publication/site.
WhatsMyNym
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
Reuters is free access as well.
TC
@download my app in the app store mistermix: From Urban Dictionary on ‘Wilmer’
A very handsome, muscular guy, Extremely sexy! Quiet, but very sociable, feels deeply and is not afraid to show his feelings. He is sweet, kind-hearted, strong, supportive, and manly. Very smart, but not geeky. Very passionate about everything and loves life!
satby
@Baud: haven’t noticed that yet, but I’ll look for it.
Shalimar
Never in my life have I cared what Martin O’Malley thought about anything. That indifference has not changed.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Baud:
Warren/Biden/Buttigieg/Bernie/AmyK/Gabbard/Baud is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.
There, happy? = D
patroclus
@Baud: Well, Bernie’s “character” is one of someone who has consistently tried to help people throughout his career. Yeah, his purity pony preening and his “revolutionary” rhetorical shtick is grating, but his actual record is always “for the people.” Even if often wrong-headed. I don’t really have a clue what Buttigieg’s “character” is or whether he can work with national politicians well.
By the way, I’m gay, so my reticence to even let Mayor Pete in the door of consideration isn’t homophobic. That’s one thing I actually like about him, but it rather clearly doesn’t go to his qualifications to be President. The last gay President we had was a disaster (Buchanan).
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. He has never been a Democrat. He will never be a Democrat.
Because he doesn’t want to be a Democrat.
There were and are good strategic reasons for letting him into the primary, but I don’t think any of the people responsible for that decision are under any illusions about him. I do think that they are under some delusions about their ability to reach his supporters.
GBVA
@Chyron HR: That you’re here accusing anyone of being racist while freely dropping the n-word in other threads is unbelievably rich. And I know that nobody wants to hear this, but constantly tarring Bernie as a racist and a sexist when he has a) more female supporters than anyone else in the field and b) the most diverse base of support in the entire field breaks one of the cardinal rules of politics: you attack a candidate on his/her weaknesses not his/her strengths. The two weeks leading up to Iowa should’ve clarified the sense in this. As Bernie surged late in the polls, every major media outlet suddenly began banging the drum about electability concerns and the cost of M4A. Lo and behold, it worked! He should’ve run away with the caucus and instead this happened. If you really want to beat him, keep it up! But tarring a candidate with an economically and racially heterogenous campaign with near gender parity as bigoted only serves to piss people off and further convince them that their critics are engaging in bad faith.
O. Felix Culpa
I haven’t had a chance to read the comments, but I can confirm from direct personal knowledge that Bernie “required” a charter jet for an appearance in our state for a barely one-hour flight from a neighboring major airport with tons of commercial flights available. The state party got stuck with an enormous bill as a consequence. So I agree with O’Malley. Sanders is and behaved like an entitled asshole. A faux man of the people.
Cacti
Given his well established inability to unite the party around any of his policy goals during 30-years in Congress, I’m curious as to how he thinks he can make this happen. Other than hubris.
WhatsMyNym
@Steeplejack:
And mistermix got it wrong as well, it’s Learjet. One word.
Baud
@patroclus:
His “actual record” is policy, not character. His character is spreading conspiracy theories, free riding on the Democratic party, and being a leader for a truly awful Trump-like cohort of people (even if “most” of his supporters do not fall within that group).
I’m not going to debate you about whether you like his character. I do not, and it’s too late in the day for me to change my mind.
Cacti
Except for dumping Vermont’s toxic waste on Hispanic border towns in Texas. But I’m sure that would never come up. ;-)
Gravenstone
@TC: FWIW, the reason Wilmer was adopted back in the day was in reference to a side character of that name from the Maltese Falcon. Of course, that particular revelation brought with it all sorts of other bullshit as various folks read much further into the supposed intent that was ever present.
mad citizen
@satby: Why is the name “Mayo Pete” homophobic? Seriously Just trying to learn why.
satby
@O. Felix Culpa: who was also a deadbeat dad. The oppo on him will end up being devastating.
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Don’t disagree about any of that. But, is she worse than Trump, who is the leader of his own cult, sends love letters to KJU, and seems to support every other authoritarian out there.
Again, this is not a question of who you think is the best Democrat. It’s a binary choice should it come down to it in the general – Trump or Gabbard? Because there is no 3rd party savior. That’s an easy vote for Gabbard for me.
Thankfully, I don’t see any possibility it could come down to that. I would not enjoy that vote.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: I could probably whip up a positive post on him tomorrow. It’s not hard to find something nice to say.
Betty Cracker
@Cacti: I assume he thinks he can make that happen because the opposition candidate is a demented fascist, so everyone else’s supporters will feel obligated to vote for Sanders to get rid of Trump. He may be correct. He may be dead wrong. I honestly don’t know.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@WhatsMyNym:
Ah, good to know. Thanks!
@TC: Ha! I thought you were joking but that is the #1 Wilmer definition on UD.
TC
@WhatsMyNym: Oh, boy!
Major Major Major Major
@mad citizen: it’s not homophobic, it’s just dumb… the new one is Mayor Cheat, since he conspired with the DNC to rig Iowa against Sanders.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major:
I may not be around much tomorrow, but I think it would be good to give it a shot if you’re up for it.
Kent
@Gravenstone:
Are there rules about this? Do PRIMARY opponents have a greater obligation to campaign for the nominee than other leading Democrats? Maybe they do, for the sake of unity and all. And from all reports, Bernie was rather shitty in some ways.
But really, if we are going to judge the 2020 candidates by how many campaign events they participated in during fall 2016 I think it is fair to ask all the leading Democrats what they did for Hillary in 2016.
I personally dislike Sanders for a whole lot of reasons and he is my last place choice of all the remaining candidates whom I would personally rank: (1) Warren, (2) Klobuchar, (3) Biden, (4) Bloomberg, (5) Buttigieg, (6) Sanders.
I’m just responding to the actual subject of this thread which is MM dinging on Sanders because he apparently didn’t do enough campaign events for Hillary and needed a Lear Jet or something.
Cacti
@Betty Cracker: I’m speaking more of if no one goes to the DNC with a majority of pledged delegates, and it goes to a brokered convention.
He has few friends among the national party.
Steeplejack
@ACinNC:
What is an HSS?
patroclus
@Major Major Major Major: Please do. If he’s really a front-runner, he deserves some scrutiny (positive and negative). I’d like to know about his record and his “character.”
Cacti
Did anyone else have their people on the convention floor, actively booing other members of the party, while they looked on in smug satisfaction?
O. Felix Culpa
@Kent: Bernie’s insistence on luxury treatment inflicted real opportunity costs on our state party. Thousands of precious dollars that could have been spent on field organizers and GOTV went to paying for a short flight because…he’s special.
Gravenstone
@mad citizen: That isn’t the homophobic slur folks have tossed around here on occasion. Rather, a play on his last name is more common.
TC
Mayor Pete’s shared some of his wisdom with us today: “The shape of our democracy is the issue that affects every other issue.” Take it to heart. It’s all about the shape, folks. What shape? This shape: $
Elizabelle
Here’s the comment from MomSense; it was 79 in “The Retaliation Begins” thread last night. MomSense had told us her kids were “panicking”, and then told us why:
The part about “won’t vote for anyone else.” Can you say that about any of the other Democratic candidates’ supporters?
Also struck me that a lot of the kids’ anxiety was stoked by social media, but they are not wrong about the threats we face. Some of their fears seem overblown (“not leaving office”), but who knows?
Gravenstone
@Kent:
I objected to your comparison solely because MOM and BS were her primary opponents in 2016. So limiting the discussion to an apples to apples level of comparison. The fact that other prominent names within the party, who are now active as candidates themselves in 2020 is irrelevant to MOM’s criticism of BS.
Baud
@TC:
We are not supposed to words in candidates’ mouths.
These new rules will take some getting used to.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@O. Felix Culpa: Why didn’t the party just tell him to piss up a rope? Serious question.
Major Major Major Major
This does not comport with observable reality. The M4A flap was months ago, and seems to have only hurt Warren—not because people didn’t like M4A, but because she really screwed up talking about it and eventually walked it back.
Bernie’s upswing in the polls was like, last week.
pamelabrown53
@patroclus:
I’m gay too. And I’ve met plenty of other gays who have internalized toxic homophobic views.
P.S. Is there a reason you included your Buchanan reference?
Spider-Dan
@Kent: Relative to how much time they spent trashing her after the primary was out of reach? About infinity times more than Bernie.
satby
@mad citizen: Mayo is a snotty reference to his ethnicity.
Betty Cracker
@Cacti: Got it, and good point.
O. Felix Culpa
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Why didn’t Bernie do the right thing? Serious question.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@satby:
Specifically that he’s so white bread, not that he’s Maltese or whatever, right? Or did I miss something about Malta and Mayo?
Major Major Major Major
@satby: and ethnicity, as any good liberal knows, is how we’re supposed to determine which candidate to support.
//
marduk
I saw this earlier and then it was pulled immediately.
That seemed like a good idea.
TC
@Kent: Why would Bloomberg have campaigned for Hillary?
Michael Bloomberg: “Bernie Sanders would have beaten Donald Trump. Polls show he would have walked away with it. But Hillary Clinton got the nomination.”
https://twitter.com/organizingpower/status/1225458615735193606?s=21
download my app in the app store mistermix
@marduk: I stepped on Cheryl so I re-scheduled it.
Major Major Major Major
@download my app in the app store mistermix: I learned the other day that Maltese, and therefore the name Buttigieg, are derived from Arabic! “Father of chickens.”
TC
@download my app in the app store mistermix: Really, I thought ‘mayo’ referred to his lack of substance – policy wise. I don’t think any of these nicknames are helpful regarding candidates or their supporters. I know that’s a minority opinion here.
James E Powell
@patroclus:
Sanders’s most significant political achievement was helping to put Trump in the White House. I’m still waiting for the public apology.
Major Major Major Major
@TC: ‘mayo’ refers entirely to the skin color of Pete and much of his base.
Sab
@paradox: That pretty much sums up my feelings about Sanders.
SiubhanDuinne
@Kent:
Dont know about Biden, and certainly no about Bloomberg (because why?), but Elizabeth Warren was, IIRC, quite an enthusiastic and effective surrogate for Hillary. One reason I’m still a SPW supporter is that I think HRC would be all-in for her.
Anya
Seriously MM. You‘re calling out MOM for petty attacks but you went with attacking him for a typo?
James E Powell
@TC:
The idea that there were MAGAs and suburban whites who would not vote for a woman, but would vote for a socialist Jewish guy is an interesting fantasy. It requires almost complete ignorance of white “Heartland” Americans.
artem1s
@Elizabelle:
word I’m getting is they believe voting is useless and don’t have any plans of voting anyway. Threatening to withhold something that you never considered doing in the first place is my first beef with the Revolution true believers from 2016.They seemed to think that FB likes and rally attendance are the best indicator of who should win an election. Registering was so ‘last century’. It’s a sentiment that I hear from a lot of self-styled independents. They are so enamored of the importance of their vote and believe the best way to yield it’s power is to withhold if from everyone – shorter version – “I’m too lazy to actually bother to make an informed choice and get off my ass and go to the polls”.
download my app in the app store mistermix
@Major Major Major Major: Interesting. I’m just happy I can spell it without googling it anymore.
satby
Wow, you mean where he said this?
https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1225624159562215424?s=20
Certainly a lot to argue with there. Not.
Avalune
Damn it’s like Lord of the Flies in here.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@J R in WV: I used to dog sit my sisters 2 Samoyeds occassionally, they LOVED the snow and they loved running around the back yard making me find them…if they put their faces in the snow bank they became invisible. Good times (Samoyeds are all white except the eyes, nose and lips)
Barbara
@Elizabelle: I posted in the next thread. Make your children read about the treatment of African Americans in the 100 years after the Civil War. “Panic” would have been more than justified, but WE HAVE TO LIVE HERE TOO. We can’t panic. We have to keep trying to make progress.
Steeplejack (phone)
@TC:
“Wilmer” as it applies to Balloon Juice.
Major Major Major Major
@satby: seems pretty obvious to me that he’s trying to talk about the importance of structural meta-political issues, which is one of the things I really like about him. The shape of SCOTUS, money in politics, voter disenfranchisement, electoral college, house reapportionment, all that stuff he’s talked about before.
zhena gogolia
@paradox:
I endorse this message!
MisterForkbeard
@James E Powell: This is kind of silly. Up until the very end polls also showed Hillary would have walked away with it. She was consistently ahead, by a lot! And Bernie wasn’t subjected to any negative campaigning.
So I guess Bloomberg is just pandering here.
lurker3000
Haven’t read all the comments. But frankly, I thought for Mr Man of the People who complained constantly about millionaires and then billionaires for their money and constantly goes on about inequality and the common man’s concerns, using Lear (sp? really) jets to go to campaign rallies was tacky. He could fly commercial like a regular person, but how often does he? He hasn’t been a man of the people for the last several years as Senator in my opinion. So why are you taking offense at Martin O’Malley who also called out that awful Cuccinelli in a pub in public for his conduct. If Sanders doesn’t want to be called out on hypocrisy he shouldn’t use Lear jets so often. I have no opinion on whether Wilmer campaigned enough for Hillary or not, an unrelated issue.
MisterForkbeard
@Major Major Major Major: Agreed. This is the sort of thing I like about Pete, though he has other things I don’t like.
He talks about the shape and context of the country a lot, what our structural challenges are. He’s a smart dude.
satby
@Major Major Major Major: but he’s got no positions, and they’re all wrong. And he doesn’t even gay correctly!
Yeah, he came out of the gate talking about structural reforms. And in that clip makes a point to refer to the stalled bill for fair elections sitting on McConnell ‘s desk because he’s a loyal party Democrat who ties his positions to the party planks. But we have to have endless threads about the guy who calls the party he carpetbags into every four years corrupt.
zhena gogolia
@Major Major Major Major:
That is what I would love. I like Anne Laurie’s positive posts on Warren, even though she isn’t my favorite candidate. I’d love to see positive posts about Klobuchar, Buttigieg, Biden, or even Sanders! I have not seen any positive posts about Sanders — just posts that attack anyone who criticizes him. That’s not the same thing.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Gravenstone:
Wrong, wrong, wrong. See this.
cokane
The idea that Sanders did anything that sabotaged Hillary Clinton in 2016 is absurd. And it requires a level of memory-holing of past primaries that is staggering, especially for a blog community filled with so many older folks.
Clinton’s campaign implied that Obama wasn’t born in the freaking USA in 2008. Ultimately it never mattered, but there was no way to predict the economic collapse that virtually guaranteed Democrats were going to crush it. Nothing Sanders did in 2016 comes close.
Gravenstone
@cokane:
Other than poisoning the well by staying in the race far, far beyond any hope of actual viability? Stoking his fever swamp followers with claims the process was “rigged” and “unfair” you mean? Nothing harmful about any of that at all.
Miss Bianca
@download my app in the app store mistermix: So, you don’t consider the fact that Bernie’s jet-setting tendencies conflict with his “man of the people” schtick to be a legitimate criticism? I sure do.
Everything about Bernie’s “rice and beans for thee, but not for me, now that I’m a big shot” routine reminds me of the old song lyric I saw in a Socialist newspaper from the 30s:
The working class can kiss my ass
I’ve got the foreman’s job at last
@paradox: And thank you for pointing out so plainly yet eloquently the crux of the biscuit. White male leftists don’t seem to have a clue just how fucking ENRAGED some of us HRC voters are out here, and expect us to just suck it up. “Look forward, not backward!”
Chris Johnson
@Gravenstone: Well… like I was saying downthread, it’s Russians who were stoking the flames and calling things rigged and unfair. They got me, at the time. They probably managed to sway Bernie the same way, by surrounding him with messaging, but that’s not the same thing as him initiating it. We know it’s Russians who picked that as a specific attack to put out there.
I would want to ask him ‘what are you going to do about that?’. Because it matters. I’m not going to let him go ‘la la Russiagate’, I need him to acknowledge what happened. I hope on sleepless nights that bothers him, because he’s trapped: he’s being run, has no chance if they drop support of him. Which will happen anyway… if he gets the nom.
chopper
it’s petty, but it’s true. a big problem with nominating sanders is downticket races, cause sanders only cares about one guy and that’s
surlysanders. his supporters point to his support of clinton after the nomination in 2016, but o’malley is reminding us here that his support was pretty thin and very conditional.TC
@satby: If there is one candidate most likely to get money out of politics, who do you think of? The mayor would not be at the top of that list, let’s be real. Sanders wins that one by any reasonable measure.
chopper
anybody, ANYBODY, who thinks that Our Revolution is going to do jack shit to get any senate democrats, much less joe fucking manchin, reelected, raise your hand.
Elizabelle
@chopper: Yup. And I see Bernie costing us a lot of our elected by a very slim margin House members.
But the Senate is key, and we’ve got some seats that could turn
We need a team player. Who is proud of being on the team.
TC
This lame argument reminds of the same gotcha arguments made by right-wingers about Al Gore (or any other environmentalist) for daring to fly anywhere because, how could they possibly be contributing to GHG and consider themselves an environmentalist? Sanders had a FT job as a US Senator and perhaps didn’t have the time to fly coach like I’m sure HRC was doing the whole time.
Anya
@cokane: He did sabotage her and he helped Trump get elected. He started that whole “Hillary is corrupt corporate tool” talk that Trump and the republicans ran with. I don’t care about his lack of enthusiasm in campaigning for her but his rhetoric has damaged her as a candidate way before she secured the nomination. He also stayed for way too long and he didn’t spoke out forcefully against his awful surrogates who were making the stupid argument that “there is no daylight between establishment democrats and republicans”
I will never forgive Bernie for disillusioning a lot of young people and convincing them that Democratic party was as bad as the Republican Party. I hold his campaign partially responsible for caging babies and all of Trump’s odious policies. Fuck that guy.
Shalimar
@cokane: Nothing Sanders did comes close for you. Some of us think behaving like a particularly stupid Trump was disqualifying.
Some of the things the Clinton campaign said in 2008 were terrible. This is particularly true of Bill, who should have had more class as a former leader of the country. The difference is the Clinton campaign stopped attacking after the last primary. Sanders kept going and turned part of the convention into a shitshow.
Princess
Never mind.
Shalimar
@TC: Warren is most likely to get the money out of politics. She gets things done. Sanders doesn’t.
Miss Bianca
@TC: “Oh, look over there, the GOP and HILLARY CLINTON! ” Aren’t you cute.
And yet, I do think ill of Bernie Sanders for pulling stunts like taking his $27 donations and jetting off to the Vatican, where he wasn’t needed and wasn’t wanted, and I will continue to think ill of him for doing so. Hypocrisy isn’t the worst of Bernie Sanders’s sins, it simply adds its own distasteful tang to the pile.
TC
@Shalimar: I like Warren. Frankly she’s better on most issues than Sanders, IMO. I don’t think getting money out of politics is one of them, but she’s better than most in that regard.
TC
@Miss Bianca: I don’t know what to tell you if can’t see the hypocrisy of complaining about Sanders flying via jet while the candidate he stumped for did the same. You need to move on from the 2016 bubble you’re stuck in.
lurker3000
@Miss Bianca:
@TC:
Lot of his political rhetoric is based on calling out capitalist society for its material inequality. He has benefited greatly himself financially as a Senator. I have no problem with rich people using jets unless they use richness as a cudgel against other rich people in their politics. I hear this stuff about his personal commitment to his values and his having more personal integrity than any other politician all the time in my daily life. It’s one of the talkingpoints for he’s the best choice. Guess I have annoying friends. I will vote for him but I find him to be hypocritical often, even so. And I think Warren is worth 10 of him both in style and competence.
Seems like the post is exactly like the tweet in purpose and style. O’Malley’s tweet is a mishmash of negativity but why post if you don’t want to stir up your own pot of negativity.
J R in WV
@download my app in the app store mistermix:
Actually, Senator Sanders is NOT a Democrat, as he has already filed to run for reelection to the Senate, as an Independent!!
When I learned that, I stopped being willing to cut Sen. Sanders even a tiny bit of slack. He is not a Democrat, he will never be a Democrat, he doesn’t respect the party nor the members of the party, which would be us — he does not respect us at all, he intends to use the members of the Democratic party for his personal benefit, just as Trump uses the United States and its power for his personal benefit~!!~
No offense, Elizabelle, you probably didn’t know about this last straw Sanders has piled upon the Democratic party.
WaterGirl
Please excuse me for shouting, but…
WaterGirl
@J R in WV: I think that’s mistermix who thinks that registering as a Democrat for
45 minutesfor the election year gives Bernie the legitimacy of a Democrat, not Elizabelle.TC
This is the same thing Bianca just did. According to this line of thinking only the poorest congresspersons can advocate for getting money out of politics.
BTW Sanders net worth of $2.5M is near the bottom of the list of Senators where the average is around $9-10M. For a guy that’s been in congress for 30 years he’s sure not very good at enriching himself.
Miss Bianca
@lurker3000: this, thank you.
J R in WV
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone:
Interesting information about Samoyeds, didn’t know they were that white.
We once had a black dog we named Step Aside Clyde — Clyde for short — because he was under my feet all the time. He was really a long haired snow lover, we had to shave him in the spring, which he hated the first year, but loved after that. He would go out on the back deck and run his nose against the deck in the snow, and pile snow up around his face, and go to sleep.
In the morning, all you could see of him was the gleam of his eyes and black nose, he would have 6 inches of snow on his back. Then he would stand up, shake it off, and come in to say good morning. Miss him every day. Really smart. Cared about everything happening around us all.
J R in WV
@Miss Bianca:
This, all the way. Why did he do that? Inexplicable strangeness~!!~ Spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on that mission to the Pope. I wouldn’t cross the street to shake that guy’s hand – the Pope’s hand, nor Senator Sanders’ hand! Neither of them…
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@J R in WV: I’m pretty sure she was referring to Bernie’s new nickname. He’s a leap-year Democrat. It’s 2020, so he’s a Democrat. 2021 is not a leap year, so he won’t be a Democrat then.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@WaterGirl: Because a certain part-time Democrat’s behavior in 2016 has an impact on how we feel about him in 2020.
I would loathe him even if he hadn’t run last time, because all I knew about him before that was that he was in the NRA’s pocket until it was politically inconvenient, he for some reason wanted to primary Obama in 2012, and he voted against closing Gitmo.
I’m being asked to forgive and forget, to make a public reconciliation and then act like the offenses never happened. I don’t do that. As far as I am concerned, that just means that I’m expected to allow the same person to abuse me again.
WaterGirl
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Where I’m coming from is that it doesn’t matter if you agree with me, or disagree, that Bernie’s behavior of – to me – lukewarm support for Hillary after he lost the nomination was despicable.
So I don’t have to convince you that he was or wasn’t (but he was) saying the right words all the while telegraphing to his peeps that it was good that they didn’t get with the program.
I’m not criticizing anyone for their opinion of Bernie, i just don’t get why we have to re-litigate 2016.
lurker3000
@TC:
His rhetoric against mill/bill isn’t just about money out of politics.
As for his status: hey, he only ran for president recently. So bully for him he’s at the bottom of the Senate millionaires, not for want of trying. Give him time. I have faith that if he loses the nomination, he’ll find ways to continue to amass donations/financial benefits from his various foundations handled by his wife. The point really is that he is just like any other politician–no worse but also NO BETTER. (And the whole shady thing he does all the time in VT to hamstring the Dem candidates who try to run against him, IMO tells you everything you need to know about his personal ethics. And he pretty clearly doesn’t care if he damages the Dem party in the short term or the long run.) And yet he claims the moral high ground often–or his followers do.
Mainly, I think he’d be a mediocre president. He’s not interested in details or implementation of policy, just the grand slogans; seems like an ideologue. He’s better than Trump, yes (low bar that). None of this matters because what is important is beating Trump. But I will be sad if I have to vote for Wilmer. Also, tbf I have always really disliked him and have always been baffled by his popularity–so I am probably not reasoning with my head but my innards.
Spider-Dan
@cokane:
Bernie in 2016, the day before the general election: “I do not believe that most of the people who are thinking about voting for Mr. Trump are racist or sexist.”
That wasn’t in the primary. That was Bernie greasing his wheels for 2020. There is zero chance that Bernie tweets “I do not believe that most of the people who are thinking about voting for Mr. Buttigieg are putting corporations over people” the day before Super Tuesday, and if Bernie wins the primary, there is zero chance Bernie repeats his Trump-apologist tweet on November 2nd.
lurker3000
@TC:
So I think I owe you an apology. Wilmer just gets to me. I really really dislike him at some gut level, but he’s probably an ok guy (and I do have lingering bitterness which is worse lately watching all the women in 2020 start to be erased again). And strictly speaking, he has a right to amass money. I don’t know why I went off. But it was probably over the top and wasn’t directed at you personally. In case it seemed that way.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@WaterGirl: Frankly, I don’t care about agree/disagree/whatever, either.
I do care about demands that I join in singing kumbayah with him. These things keep blowing up because someone keeps insisting that we pretend 2016 never happened, that we’re all friends now.
And people keep saying “No, we’re not friends, and this is why. Why can’t you grok that?”
The Other Jerome
@cokane: By and large they don’t give a shit dude. One of the unforgivable things about Hillary for me was how she or surrogates would float racial things about Obama. “He might get killed, The Whitey tape, The Pumas, Fairy Tale, Shuck and Jive, Did Obama deal drugs, Getting us coffee, Playing coy with the Secret Muslim stuff” The Pumas were all in on the Birther crap. As such, a greater number of them voted for McCain than the people who Switched from Bernie to tRump.
But you see, I’m Black. And to survive we often can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I will never forget the 2008 campaign, (hot sauce in her purse be damned) but I held my nose and voted for her. I would say that I’m shocked that so many of my allies cape soooo hard for a woman that was willing to go there on race against Obama, but I’m not.
Because I’m Black.
Bobby Thomson
How’s about you go away, you god damn shit for brains Bernie Bro? O’Malley speaks the truth.
Bobby Thomson
@Anya: All of this.
Plus his senior staff all encouraged people to vote for Stein in 2016. Fuck that guy. Fuck him so much.
Spider-Dan
@The Other Jerome: Both primaries featured some pretty rank behavior on the part of the loser. But the difference is that Hillary supporters weren’t booing Obama as he accepted the nomination, nor were his staffers – the same staffers that came back for the next run, mind you! – telling people to vote third-party, nor was she giving people a pass to vote for McCain the day before the election. And the 2008 primary was a LOT closer than the 2016 primary; Hillary won the popular vote in 2008, but you never heard her staffers throw around this “rigged” nonsense.
Primary competition is fine, and close primaries are going to involve a lot more sniping (as we may see again). It was the scorched-earth support of the Berners and the third-party support of his staffers that really set his campaign apart.
Uncle Cosmo
IMO anyone who’s too fucking stupid to recognize “leer” as an autocorrect from “Lear” that slipped through the cracks – or too fucking suborned to admit it – doesn’t deserve to be a front pager here on a nearly-top-10,000 blog.
And is probably also too fucking stupid (or suborned) to recognize that Bernie is a Russian asset, has been for decades, & will be the instrument that destroys the Democratic Party and American democracy should the Russki bots who’ve been laundering rubles in small bundles to fund his campaign finagle him the nomination. By November enough kompromat on BS would inundate the MSM to convince more than half the elctorate that it’s been the Democrats trying to steal the country for Vlad & that Cheeto Benito’s big lies were true all along.
I should e-mail my friend Martin O’Malley what Nick Carroway said to Jay Gatsby: They’re a rotten crowd. You’re worth the whole damn bunch put together. By whom I mean the political naifs, newbies & nitwits here who imagine that having scribbled a few postcards or knocked on a handful of doors qualifies them as experts – when in fact it only shows that Dunning-Kruger applies to “progressives” as well.