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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Criminal Justice / Amy, Whatcha Gonna Do?

Amy, Whatcha Gonna Do?

by @heymistermix.com|  February 12, 20209:58 am| 220 Comments

This post is in: Criminal Justice

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As we know, four prosecutors quit the Roger Stone case yesterday, since Bill Barr decided to reverse his department’s sentencing recommendation of 7-10 years, after a Trump tweet. In my Twitter feed this morning, some lawyers (or at least some shithouse lawyers) were putting odds at 70/30 for Judge Amy Berman Jackson to call Barr to her court to have him explain the reversal in person.

Stone was in trouble with ABJ before the case even began trial, because he was distributing pictures of her head with a sniper scope image imposed on it. That resulted in a gag order from Jackson.

At the time that order was issued, I read the stories about Stone’s day in court with ABJ, and it sounded like she was extremely careful in her ruling, and definitely didn’t do any “I’m a big bad Federal judge, you are a peon” shit talking. She doesn’t seem like the type to haul Barr into court, but that’s me being a shithouse lawyer.

I’m actually surprised that Trump gives a tinker’s dam about Stone, but maybe Trump’s acquittal has emboldened him, or maybe Stone is not in the Manafort bucket in Trump’s mind. It may be that Trump has decided that Manafort was part of a Ukranian scheme to get him, but who knows what his brain worms tell him every day. My guess is that Michael Flynn, who basically went back on his plea agreement and is now trying to withdraw his guilty plea, is the next possible recipient of Trump’s largess via his wartime consigliere.

Whenever I get too infuriated with Bill Barr, piece of shit that he is, I am comforted by John Mitchell’s mug shot:

(“Shithouse lawyer” is a term I learned from an Army officer describing the legal strategies some of his troops used when they were defending themselves in what I think is called an “Article 15”. It was because they came up with their strategy while sitting in the shitter that morning. Seems apt here.)

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220Comments

  1. 1.

    Roger Moore

    February 12, 2020 at 10:04 am

    I sincerely doubt ABJ will haul Barr into court, if for no other reason than she doesn’t have an obvious legal justification.  That said, I would not be at all surprised if she decided to go based on the earlier sentencing recommendations and ignore the later ones.

  2. 2.

    MattF

    February 12, 2020 at 10:04 am

    I predict that Amy will drop the hammer on Roger.

  3. 3.

    Cermet

    February 12, 2020 at 10:05 am

    Apparently, a fundamental flaw of our legal system is how AG’s can corrupt and even break the law with immunity – like bloody hand’s cheney’s AG making torture legal by simply writing a memo! Or a memo saying the president can not be indicted – utter bullshit.

  4. 4.

    Hildebrand

    February 12, 2020 at 10:07 am

    I’m assuming the judge can ignore Barr’s knavery, yes?  She can sentence in the way consistent with the crimes committed regardless of the prosecution’s recommendations?

  5. 5.

    MattF

    February 12, 2020 at 10:09 am

    OT. Some insight into Trump’s appeal to Evanglicals.

  6. 6.

    Sis

    February 12, 2020 at 10:12 am

    I was 11 and 12 years old during Watergate, so I don’t have memories of that time from an adult perspective – although Watergate was all grown-ups talked about, and they all seemed to have strong opinions – but I swear to God, John Mitchell cannot possibly have been as terrible as Barr.

  7. 7.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:14 am

    I’m actually surprised that Trump gives a tinker’s damn about Stone

    Stone has been helping drumpf for years:

    “Tying a tribe proposing a casino that would’ve competed with Trump’s Jersey empire to “drug trafficking, money laundering, the mob, violence, and the smuggling of illegal immigrants,” the ads featured pictures of cocaine lines and drug needles.”https://t.co/QKrGPdJvjm

    — The Village Voice (@villagevoice) February 11, 2020

  8. 8.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    February 12, 2020 at 10:15 am

    @Sis: Mitchell was a white shoe New York lawyer who was the chair of Nixon’s campaign committee in ’68 and resigned his AG job to be his campaign chair in ’72.  So he’s a bit different from Barr, and the crimes he committed were good old fashioned crime, not what Barr is doing now.

  9. 9.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:22 am

    “Senior officials at the Justice Department also intervened last month to help change the government's sentencing recommendation for Trump's former national security adviser, Michael Flynn” https://t.co/s5hKS082SB— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) February 12, 2020

  10. 10.

    Mike in NC

    February 12, 2020 at 10:23 am

    Fat Bastard has decided to go full Putin, anybody who objects be damned and punished as much as his sick, vindictive ego demands. Just yesterday he was musing that the Vindman brothers be kicked out of the Army, maybe even lose their pensions, for daring to speak the truth. He remains a cancer on our democracy.

  11. 11.

    A Ghost To Most

    February 12, 2020 at 10:23 am

    From a commenter on WaPo, about the mobification of DOJ:

    The truly ironic and horrifying joke is, THIS is why we have a 2nd Amendment.

  12. 12.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2020 at 10:24 am

    I’m actually surprised that Trump gives a tinker’s damn about Stone

    Your Morning Pedantry: It is not “a tinker’s damn” but “a tinker’s dam.”

    A tinker’s dam was a small bit of solder used to patch (or dam up) a hole in a tin pot or pan. The phrase has nothing to do with the dismissive curse.

  13. 13.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 10:25 am

    Saw the title and thought this was going to be about Klobuchar.

  14. 14.

    the Conster

    February 12, 2020 at 10:26 am

    Having a transnational mob boss as POTUS using the DOJ as his consigliere has exposed a lot of flaws in a system that apparently solely depends on a good faith belief in the rule of law.

    Do we really believe there will be an election?  What if one (red) state governor decides, under pressure from the DOJ, to suspend their election for some bullshit reason?  That’s all it would take to nullify the entire exercise.

  15. 15.

    zhena gogolia

    February 12, 2020 at 10:28 am

    @Baud:

    Me too. I found it refreshing that it was not (I’m already so sick of these primaries).

  16. 16.

    Mandalay

    February 12, 2020 at 10:29 am

    @Sis:

    I swear to God, John Mitchell cannot possibly have been as terrible as Barr

    Perhaps not as significant and harmful as Barr in a professional capacity, but not many people have “He was never brought to court for having his wife kidnapped” as party of their legacy.

  17. 17.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 10:29 am

    @the Conster:

    Yes there’s going to be an election.  A red state governor isn’t going to cancel the election and deprive Trump of electoral votes.

  18. 18.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:30 am

    Future historians (if there are any) will look back and call this era “The Nervous Time”

    Police say that a suspicious object, that was found near the University Plaza in Albany, contained soup.

    The New York State Police Bomb Disposal Unit was called in on Tuesday night. They took an x-ray scan of the cylindrical object and determined it was not a bomb.

    The plaza was shut down for about an hour but is back open as normal on Wednesday morning.

  19. 19.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    February 12, 2020 at 10:31 am

    @SiubhanDuinne: Interesting.  I updated the post.  Thanks

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2020 at 10:32 am

    @Baud: I did too. Bet anything that both Klobuchar and ABJ — not to mention all my friends with that name — had parents who came of romantic age when “Once In Love With Amy” was topping the charts :-)

  21. 21.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 12, 2020 at 10:32 am

    @Baud: me too. She raised four million between the last debate and the primary, and 2.5M within four hours after the NH polls closing, and the NV Culinary union just came out hard against BernieCare.

    Could get interesting if she figures out a way to talk to African-American voters

    @zhena gogolia: it feels like a bit much this year, but the only way to stop what the post is about is to do the primaries right, us and candidates

  22. 22.

    DropDminus

    February 12, 2020 at 10:32 am

    My experience with federal judges tells me that Judge Jackson will likely force the doj to explain their revisions. She will make them own every word of it. If they are recommending downward departures from  the guidelines she’s going to drill down into why that changed overnight.  If the sacrificial ausa who gets stuck showing up to answer the bell doesn’t satisfy her inquiry, she will haul in someone higher up.  She’s not bound by the recommendations so she can sentence how she sees fit.  Politically, making the doj commit to a singular rationale would be the greatest thing she could do because it provides a roadmap for hearings and potential impeachment of the AG.

    disclaimer here:  I primarily deal with federal judges in bankruptcy court who tend to be more practical and possess far less of an ego so maybe she will skip the slow burn approach and go straight to pulp fiction Sam Jackson mode  (“strike down with furious anger…”)and haul Barr in.

  23. 23.

    the Conster

    February 12, 2020 at 10:33 am

    @Baud:

    I’m not so sanguine.   He thinks he’s above the law, and why wouldn’t he?  Monarchs don’t need electoral votes.

  24. 24.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 10:35 am

    @the Conster: 

    He’s not a monarch. Stop elevating him. That’s what his minions do.

  25. 25.

    Wapiti

    February 12, 2020 at 10:35 am

    @the Conster: If one red state chooses to provide no electors, how does that stop the rest?

  26. 26.

    JPL

    February 12, 2020 at 10:36 am

    @Sis: Nixon wasn’t as bad as trump either.

  27. 27.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:37 am

    You understand that Trump, Barr, et al are so ludicrously corrupt that they will never allow a Democrat to take the White House. They know that, if a Democrat wins, they will die in prison. Expect every form of electoral fuckery, including ignoring the results.
    — The Rude Pundit (@rudepundit) February 12, 2020

    I don’t know if I believe this. How many Democratic candidates have taken the “look forward, not backward” position on #45’s crimes?

  28. 28.

    Mandalay

    February 12, 2020 at 10:37 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It is not “a tinker’s damn” but “a tinker’s dam.”

    Well there’s this:

    Merriam-Webster finds tinker’s damn in print since 1839 and suggests that it derives from tinkers’ reputation for swearing.The spelling tinker’s dam is attested since 1858, and phrases.org.uk notes the disagreement over whether the term originated from tinkers’ swearing or instead from their use of small, single-use dams to hold solder.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tinker%27s_damn

    I find it tough to argue that the earlier usage is wrong, and doubly so since it is more widely used.

  29. 29.

    Joe Falco

    February 12, 2020 at 10:37 am

    Amy, get your gavel and lock Stone away for as long as possible. Trump’s going to pardon the Dick Tracey villain look-a-like anyway from the sound of things. You might as well go big or go home.

  30. 30.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 10:38 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yep.

    And TBH, the potential racial divide in our party is troubling, as is the generational divide.

  31. 31.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:39 am

    By tweet @realDonaldTrump engaged in political interference in the sentencing of Roger Stone. It is outrageous that DOJ has deeply damaged the rule of law by withdrawing its recommendation. Stepping down of prosecutors should be commended & actions of DOJ should be investigated.— Nancy Pelosi (@SpeakerPelosi) February 12, 2020

  32. 32.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    February 12, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @Mandalay: Oh, no, now do I need to change it back?  What a conundrum.

    Also, on the title, I shot my shot with ABJ not AK, but there’s always the “falling in and out of love with you” angle if the Klobucharge loses momentum, or if she ends up winning primaries.  The possibilities are endless.

  33. 33.

    JPL

    February 12, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @germy: He’ll pardon himself and Barr before he leaves office.

  34. 34.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 10:40 am

    @germy: It’s bullshit. You saw the same paranoia with Bush.

    The biggest risks to a fair election are voter suppression and propaganda.   Everything else is a distraction.

  35. 35.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:41 am

    To the DOJ Inspector General:

    I’m calling for an immediate investigation of why the Roger Stone sentencing recommendations by career prosecutors were countermanded.

    The American people must have confidence that justice in this country is dispensed impartially. pic.twitter.com/vaBtC1FlUI

    — Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) February 12, 2020

  36. 36.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 10:41 am

    @Mandalay:

    Tinker’s dam(n).

  37. 37.

    cmorenc

    February 12, 2020 at 10:42 am

    @Hildebrand:

    I’m assuming the judge can ignore Barr’s knavery, yes?  She can sentence in the way consistent with the crimes committed regardless of the prosecution’s recommendations?

    The adhesive holding a judge to a prosecutor’s specific recommendations, so long as they are within the statutory sentencing range for the crime in question – is sustainable efficiency in the court process.  The judge is *not* bound to follow the prosecutor’s recommendation, but routinely departing from those recommendations tends to prolong cases (resulting in lengthening case docket backlogs), as well as undermining the ability of prosecutors and defense attorneys to reach mutually tolerable plea agreements.  Sometimes, however when judges sense that the prosecutor’s recommendations are out of line with reasonable application of justice to the case, they can (and do) depart from them, which is more likely as the prosecutor’s recommendations seem to the judge to be out of line with normal sentencing range guidelines for the particular offense and circumstances.

  38. 38.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:45 am

    @Joe Falco:

    Dick Tracey villain look-a-like

    Yes, an uncanny resemblance.  He also reminds me of someone who would have battled Adam West’s Batman.

  39. 39.

    MattF

    February 12, 2020 at 10:45 am

    @cmorenc: And, in this case, the judge already has a sentencing recommendation from career prosecutors.

  40. 40.

    Cheryl Rofer

    February 12, 2020 at 10:45 am

    This is a really interesting point. Former DOJ IG @mrbromwich says Judge Amy Jackson has it in her power to hold a hearing, to demand that DOJ account for its interference on Roger Stone's behalf, which was plainly done at Trump's command:https://t.co/SY15NynwsS pic.twitter.com/nBFYah83ur

    — Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) February 12, 2020

  41. 41.

    Sis

    February 12, 2020 at 10:46 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix: Exactly! Good old fashioned crime! Not “let’s destroy democracy and the rule of law.” Some days, I can’t find words – even profanity, in which I’m quite proficient – when Barr pulls his latest stunt, and all I can do is sputter.

  42. 42.

    Cheryl Rofer

    February 12, 2020 at 10:46 am

    A President who intervenes in the criminal justice system to help his allies, while punishing people like Lt. Col. Vindman for telling the truth, represents a real danger and the Committee will get to the bottom of this. 2/2

    — (((Rep. Nadler))) (@RepJerryNadler) February 11, 2020

  43. 43.

    Mandalay

    February 12, 2020 at 10:48 am

    @Baud:

    He’s not a monarch. Stop elevating him.

    John Mitchell’s wife wouldn’t even treat monarchs like royalty:

    She refused to curtsy to Queen Elizabeth II at a garden party in July 1971, saying, “I feel that an American citizen should not bow to foreign monarchs.” Scotland’s Earl of Lindsay, a member of the Queen’s Body Guard for Scotland, wrote Mitchell a letter of reprimand, and in a statement to the press said, “There is always hope she may learn some manners. She is a stupid woman. If she is going to shout her mouth off like that, she is bound to get shouted at.”

  44. 44.

    gene108

    February 12, 2020 at 10:48 am

    @germy:

    I don’t know if I believe this. How many Democratic candidates have taken the “look forward, not backward” position on #45’s crimes?

    None have explicitly stated this, IIRC

  45. 45.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 12, 2020 at 10:51 am

    @gene108: I’d like to think “Restoring checks and balances” would make a good plank in a platform, for Senate and White House candidate

    ETA: in other, not unrelated news, trump is pushing the military to go after Vindman for him. I wonder if that news will penetrate the thick walls of the Trappist monastery where the Warrior Monk Jim Mattis has apparently taken refuge, and a vow of silence, in order to better contemplate civil-military relations

  46. 46.

    Benw

    February 12, 2020 at 10:51 am

    Barr is such a henchman

  47. 47.

    Sis

    February 12, 2020 at 10:51 am

    @Mandalay: Good point . One memory I have of that time is of my mother scoffing at Martha Mitchell’s story of what had happened to her, because no one would treat the wife of the Attorney General of the United States that way. Little did my mom know.

    And sadly, I’d still take monstrous Mitchell over Barr.

  48. 48.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 10:52 am

    @DropDminus:

    My experience with federal judges tells me that Judge Jackson will likely force the doj to explain their revisions. She will make them own every word of it. If they are recommending downward departures from the guidelines she’s going to drill down into why that changed overnight. If the sacrificial ausa who gets stuck showing up to answer the bell doesn’t satisfy her inquiry, she will haul in someone higher up. She’s not bound by the recommendations so she can sentence how she sees fit.

    I was going to write something like this, but this is nail on the head — and I am a criminal defense attorney. The new sentencing recommendation from DOJ is an obvious trap for the Judge. “Do what what you want, but…”

    I also expect she will write a sentencing order that will attempt to stave off if not undermine a future pardon. Stone was convicted by a jury! There is NO evidence of prosecutorial misconduct that I know of — and those guys who quit were squeaky clean in part because they knew what scrutiny they were under. Also, the fact that they quit adds to their integrity. Judge Jackson will almost certainly have a hearing as described by DropDMinus. But I would expect it will be some weeks down the road so she can gather her arguments, ideas and facts before engaging.

  49. 49.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 10:54 am

    @gene108:  Yang explicitly did, but fortunately he’s gone.  Pete?  Joe?

  50. 50.

    PST

    February 12, 2020 at 10:55 am

    I would not expect Judge Jackson to call Barr in to explain, at least not at the outset, but I would expect her to call the new replacement U.S. Attorney for DC, Timothy Shea, and John Crabb, the assistant who signed the revised sentencing memorandum, and ask them what gives, including whether they were acting on instructions from higher up. This is incidental, but I knew Amy Berman slightly (very slightly) as a college student. She seemed razor sharp and no nonsense then, and nothing reported during the recent trials has made her seem any different.

  51. 51.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 10:56 am

    @gene108: Warren has explicitly taken the opposite view — that the crimes must be pursued.

  52. 52.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2020 at 10:56 am

    @Mandalay: Also interesting, thanks. I knew, of course, that “tinker’s damn” has been commonly used for years, but thought it was more recent. As both are acceptable, I’ll stay with “dam” as I have for the past 70+ years.

    (I have a vivid memory of my very proper grandmother using the expression once at a family gathering. We kids all giggled and were shocked at her “swearing,” and she explained the etymology then and there.)

  53. 53.

    tobie

    February 12, 2020 at 10:57 am

    I feel like Barr gets away with as much as he does because IG Michael Horowitz is too weak or too craven to do his job as the IG of the DOJ. Horowitz strikes me as a person like Rod Rosenstein, someone who goes along to get along and is deferential to the GOP. He never investigated the NY FBI as promised; he violated department procedures to fire Andrew McCabe; when he testified about the FBI’s Russia investigation, he didn’t even defend the implications of his report and suggested that perhaps there was a targeted effort against Trump in 2016 that he didn’t uncover. What DOJ employee would or should trust IG Horowitz to properly handle a complaint?

  54. 54.

    Jeffro

    February 12, 2020 at 10:58 am

    I think the House needs to simultaneously impeach Barr and trumpov for what they have done re: interference with Roger Stone’s sentencing, harassing the judge, and heck whatever trumpov tweeted while I was writing this.  They need to make the GOP senators own both “men”s behavior, and make it clear to trumpov that now he really will stand out in history as the first president* impeached multiple times.

    Seriously, f-it.  Go for broke, House Dems.  Make those GOP senators pay for betraying their oaths.

  55. 55.

    RedDirtGirl

    February 12, 2020 at 10:59 am

    @MattF: Very interesting. Thanks for the link!

  56. 56.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 10:59 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:  Go Amy!

    And here is my own personal view for why Warren has had such a tough time:  More than any other candidate, she reminds people of Hillary Clinton, and for very different reasons, many people just can’t go there.  Whether it’s her focus on policy, her age, even her general appearance, she is the candidate who is most similar to Clinton.

  57. 57.

    germy

    February 12, 2020 at 11:00 am

    @Immanentize:  One of the many reasons I support her.

  58. 58.

    Amir Khalid

    February 12, 2020 at 11:00 am

    @Mandalay:

    Me, I like to say “tinker’s darn”.

  59. 59.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2020 at 11:03 am

    @Mandalay:

    @Sis:

    I believe, but will have to confirm, that CNN is doing a one-hour documentary about Martha Mitchell sometime soon, maybe this weekend. Might be interesting to watch.

  60. 60.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2020 at 11:03 am

    @Amir Khalid:

     

    :-)

  61. 61.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 11:04 am

    @PST: I knew Amy Berman very slightly because we clerked for the same federal judge.  I probably won’t give much away by saying that after an oral argument in which she argued, he told us that she was one of his favorite clerks, over the course of a career that spanned nearly three decades.

  62. 62.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 12, 2020 at 11:05 am

    I like fiddler’s fuck.

    Fiddler’s fart for those of you better-mannered than I.

  63. 63.

    RobertB

    February 12, 2020 at 11:05 am

    IIRC, Article 15 is “Non-Judicial Punishment”.  An awesome phrase IMO.  It’s punishment for stuff bigger than doing something stupid while drunk (hangover mess hall duty for you), and smaller than shooting your way out of a PX robbery gone bad.  You usually want to take the Article 15 rather than whatever you could really be charged for.

  64. 64.

    scav

    February 12, 2020 at 11:08 am

    @Amir Khalid: And here I was going with Tinker’s Mother. . .

  65. 65.

    Leto

    February 12, 2020 at 11:10 am

    “Shithouse lawyer” is a term I learned from an Army officer describing the legal strategies some of his troops used when they were defending themselves in what I think is called an “Article 15”. It was because they came up with their strategy while sitting in the shitter that morning.

    In the Air Force we call them “dorm lawyers”, because it’s the dumbass Airmen in the dorms who collectively put on their “thinking caps”, have maybe seen an episode of Law and Order, and try to utilize their minuscule knowledge of the military legal system to get out of whatever trouble they’re in. Typically used in lower level non-judicial punishments because by the time they’ve hit Art15 territory, they’ve been escorted over to base legal to help them help themselves.

    Edit: but I really like the term “shithouse lawyer”. I’ll have to pass it along.

  66. 66.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 11:10 am

    @Barbara:

    Perhaps, but I’ve always felt that Warren made a mistake by not embracing Hillary more, who got to most primary and general election votes in 2016. Why not reach out to those voters more explicitly?

  67. 67.

    rp

    February 12, 2020 at 11:13 am

    @Baud: I think you’re both right. She does remind people of HRC, so she should have leaned into that and gone after HRC’s voters much more explicitly. Positioning herself as bernie-lite was a mistake because (a) many Bernie voters are cultist a-holes who only want him, (b) even for the non-cultists, why have lite when you have the original, full-flavored version?, and (c) that lane is only 25-30% of the electorate.

  68. 68.

    H.E.Wolf

    February 12, 2020 at 11:14 am

    @zhena gogolia:

    Off topic, but good news for anyone who reads TomJChicago’s twitter feed: The “protected” status was temporary; it’s readable by all again.

    [ETA: fixed typo.]

  69. 69.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 11:18 am

    @Baud: It’s a Hobson’s Choice but on balance I don’t really think anyone considered her to be hostile to Clinton the way Sanders and his supporters are, so I don’t think it was really all that necessary

    @rp: I agree that “Sanders lite” was a strategic error.  What she might have been able to sell was “the practical Sanders” who would focus on getting things done.  Nothing annoys me more than the M4A, which Sanders spouts without even thinking, but only Warren got tarred with because she actually tried to show how it would work.

  70. 70.

    catclub

    February 12, 2020 at 11:20 am

    I liked Klobucharge.

    High ranking diplomat: Klobucharge’ d’affaire

    Klobuchatbot.

    Klobucharter bus.

  71. 71.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    February 12, 2020 at 11:21 am

    @rp:

     Positioning herself as bernie-lite was a mistake because (a) many Bernie voters are cultist a-holes who only want him, (b) even for the non-cultists, why have lite when you have the original, full-flavored version?, and (c) that lane is only 25-30% of the electorate.

    This is a very common view among the commenters here but, as someone who you guys paid to go to Netroots Nation way back in 2012, where Warren was a very popular speaker, I’m here to tell you that her views as expressed there were the same as those in her campaign.  She’s always been a “progressive”, and always been more liberal than HRC.  Many of her views are the same as Sanders, some are not.  She’s in her natural lane.

  72. 72.

    catclub

    February 12, 2020 at 11:23 am

    @Baud: but I’ve always felt that Warren made a mistake by not embracing Hillary more, who got to most primary and general election votes in 2016. Why not reach out to those voters more explicitly?

     

    This is the kind of thing, when David Brooks says it, Krugman quotes that that is exactly what (here) Warren has done.

  73. 73.

    catclub

    February 12, 2020 at 11:24 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I often use Tinker’s cuss.

  74. 74.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 11:27 am

    More data points: -Exit polls show a HUGE drop in young voter turnout from 19% (2016) to 11% (2020)-Bernie's losing first time voters-Bernie's losing voters who didn’t support him or Clinton in 2016#BernieHasACeiling https://t.co/Q1vM04y6aV— Zac Petkanas (@Zac_Petkanas) February 12, 2020

  75. 75.

    patrick II

    February 12, 2020 at 11:27 am

    @germy:

    If we “look forward, not backward” we can write off our democracy.  Trump isn’t the only person involved in the fascistification of America.  If nothing happens, like Trump, they will have learned the lesson of no consequences. Right now, it is one step forward, two back and not the other way around.  The downward spiral has to be curtailed.

    Kamilla, when she was running, and Warren have been the only candidates who I have heard of that said there will be investigations after the election.

  76. 76.

    the Conster

    February 12, 2020 at 11:29 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix:

    When asked to distinguish herself from Sanders, she didn’t name one thing.  “I’m with Bernie” was her response on a couple of occasions – on the debate stage for one, and on another occasion in a press gaggle.  What about his gun votes?  His anti-immigration reform votes?  What about the sexual harassment payoffs to silence the women on his previous campaign?  Those were missed opportunities to go after him.  I will never understand why she didn’t.

  77. 77.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Chad Mizelle has been a lawyer for just 6 years, one more than me.I wouldn’t trust myself, or any other attorney with that amount of experience, to make binding legal decisions for an agency which affects the lives of millions.He’s now Acting DHS General Counsel. https://t.co/hQcX1E0e55— Aaron Reichlin-Melnick (@ReichlinMelnick) February 12, 2020

  78. 78.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 11:31 am

    On Capitol Hill today, @WhipClyburn with a vote of confidence for @JoeBiden in SC. Says of his “firewall”: “When I left there it was strong.”On results in IA and NH: “If he finishes in fourth in a demographic that doesn’t reflect the electorate then it is not that important.“— Mike Memoli (@mikememoli) February 12, 2020

  79. 79.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 11:32 am

    @Barbara: She’s not hostile to Clinton, but that doesn’t mean she made a strategic choice to involve Clinton (the way candidates invoke Obama for example).  It’s not as easy a choice to make, but those are votes left on the table.

     

    @catclub: When has Warren done this? Do you have a link?

  80. 80.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    February 12, 2020 at 11:33 am

    @the Conster: Simple answer:  she wants his voters and doesn’t want to piss them off.

    You sound like the Pod Save America guys reviewing the NH debate.  They were astonished at how nobody went after Bernie effectively.  The reason is the whole collective action problem:  if you want to take down the front runner, everyone needs to band together to do it.  But you risk pissing off his supporters.

    And, yes, she and Bernie do differ in some significant ways.  But she’s generally in his lane, at least closest to his lane ideologically of all the major candidates remaining.

  81. 81.

    rp

    February 12, 2020 at 11:34 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix: But as others (Kay?) have pointed out today, many voters don’t pick candidates based on ideology. Or at least ideology is one of a number of factors. You can see that with a lot of the weird second and third choices. I’m not saying she should have changed her positions, but she could have made a more explicit pitch to Clinton voters based on common traits such as experience, ability to work with others, policy knowledge, etc.

  82. 82.

    MisterForkbeard

    February 12, 2020 at 11:36 am

    @Barbara: I can agree with this. M4A was Bernie’s baby, but he got away with a really vague ‘and here are 30 unpopular things we could maybe cut or partially cut that would pay for part of M4A, which I will not state how much it costs’.

    His people also tarred and feathered Warren for having a transition plan where it would take time to implement. And then he (last week) came out with support for a multi-year transition plan.

    He’s benefited enormously from not having to detail this proposal at all, and Warren basically took the heat for trying to figure out how to make it work.

  83. 83.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 11:37 am

    "Trump has privately encouraged Giuliani to keep investigating the Biden family and Ukraine, and to keep updating… the Justice Department on his findings, according to two people familiar with their discussions." https://t.co/SYLNMZABet— Noah Shachtman (@NoahShachtman) February 12, 2020

  84. 84.

    Gravenstone

    February 12, 2020 at 11:37 am

    @germy: Yang. But he’s gone now, so not an issue.

  85. 85.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 11:38 am

    After the first two states, who would have thought the delegate leader would be Pete Buttigieg?— Marcus H. Johnson (@marcushjohnson) February 12, 2020

  86. 86.

    Ladyraxterinok

    February 12, 2020 at 11:38 am

    @MattF:

    Extremely good comparison. I have watched several prosperity gospel preachers on TV. He’s fight– that’s Trump’s manner precisely!!

    Note the source is a very conservative site

  87. 87.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    February 12, 2020 at 11:39 am

    @rp:  Agree on the ideology comment – voters are picking candidates on ideology plus other factors, often contradicting their putative ideological views.

    But consider this:  Clinton lost, and the worst thing you can do as a candidate in 2020, when Dems are shitting themselves at the prospect of another loss to Trump, is to even mention Clinton.  I haven’t watched all the debates, but in the NH debate the only mention of Clinton was by the moderators when they tossed in her quote that “Nobody likes Bernie”.  Biden and Klobuchar were fighting to be first to disavow that.  It just isn’t a winning strategy.

    Also, to address something else that’s come up in the comments, which is Sanders’ vagueness on M4A.  Yep, he dodges specifics all the time, while at the same time saying taxes will go up, but overall costs will go down.  Warren, unfortunately, chose to go into details, and she was hurt for it.  Is Sanders’ strategy going to hold up?  Dunno, but it’s working so far.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 11:41 am

    @rp:

    she could have made a more explicit pitch to Clinton voters based on common traits such as experience, ability to work with others, policy knowledge, etc.

    Plus the injustice of 2016.  Most Democrats wanted Hillary to be president and were denied that because of a coalition of evil actors.

  89. 89.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 11:41 am

    @MisterForkbeard: Which she should have been savvy enough to avoid.  Sorry, this is an election we are talking about, not actual legislation.

  90. 90.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 11:43 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix: Yes, agreed.  And really, as a Clinton voter, the only candidate I know who is probably disdainful of Clinton voters like me is Sanders.

  91. 91.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 11:43 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix:

      It just isn’t a winning strategy.

    We’ll never know, I suppose, since none of the lower polling candidates have attempted it even when faced with low polling.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 11:45 am

    @Barbara:

    She wanted to be the person with the plans.  Once she chose that road, it was hard to avoid health care.

  93. 93.

    Geminid

    February 12, 2020 at 11:47 am

    I still think Warren would have done well to push her plan to fight climate change. I think this could be a winning issue, both in the primary and the general. She has the best plan: clean energy jobs, energy conservation jobs, pump-priming investment. Infrastructure! She does best with positive issues.

  94. 94.

    rp

    February 12, 2020 at 11:47 am

    @Baud: Yes. It’s as much about atmospherics as direct comparisons. “Isn’t what happened in 2016 a travesty? We were robbed of having the qualified president of my lifetime! No one was more capable or prepared, and instead we got this schmuck.”

  95. 95.

    Comrade Scrutinizer

    February 12, 2020 at 11:48 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix:

    Clinton lost

    She did not lose the popular vote.

  96. 96.

    the Conster

    February 12, 2020 at 11:49 am

    @download my app in the app store mistermix:

    She was never going to get his supporters.  I don’t know why she didn’t understand that.  He’s the kiss of death.  He’s distilling his own supporters down to the cult deadenders, and he’s fine with that – it’s his strategy.  He’s not asking for votes from the Obama/Clinton base, doesn’t want them or think he needs them.  Warren tied herself to him too tight, and the beginning of the end of her rise in the polls was when she took the bait and said $56 trillion was her plan to pay for M4All, while not demanding Sanders stop blowing smoke up everyone’s ass and come up with his own funding plan.

  97. 97.

    Elizabelle

    February 12, 2020 at 11:50 am

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:   Thank you.

    Hillary Clinton bested Donald Trump by 3 million plus votes, and this with massive voter suppression, James Comey, and social media smearing like none before.

    MM should know that, but it’s not a comfortable fact for him.

    I have my doubts about Trump’s Electoral College “victory” in the swing states.

  98. 98.

    James E Powell

    February 12, 2020 at 11:51 am

    Hey, do you guys remember when the AG had to recuse herself from an investigation of Hillary Clinton because Bill Clinton talked to her for a few minutes? She had to turn the whole investigation over to a Republican who had been special counsel in the Whitewater Witch Hunt that produced no wrongdoing.

    The problem we face is that about 40% of the country will support anything so long as it angers or harms the people they hate – meaning us – and about 20% are so disconnected politics that they do not exert any popular force upon anyone.  And the press/media will normalize and eventually praise whatever Trump does because “he’s winning!”

    This is what we are up against this year and I am not feeling like the Democrats, as a whole, are ready to overcome it.

  99. 99.

    Bex

    February 12, 2020 at 11:52 am

    @Baud: That’s why I almost skipped it.

  100. 100.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 11:52 am

    Chris Hayes will never say this but to have two candidates who were unknowns a year ago each come within single digits with a guy from a neighbouring state who has been campaigning for five years isn't a good look for "Our Revolution"— Dan SIoan ???????️‍? (@dantoujours) February 12, 2020

  101. 101.

    download my app in the app store mistermix

    February 12, 2020 at 11:53 am

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:  And whoever the Democrats nominate this time will almost certainly win the popular vote, too.  The goal this time is to actually win, based on the rules as they exist.

    @Baud: Yes, because all consultants and candidates agree that it wouldn’t be a good strategy.  That doesn’t mean that it couldn’t work – lots of things that people don’t think will be a good strategy turn out to work.  Still, I’m pretty sure on this one.  Even primary voters don’t want a reminder of the 2016 nightmare.

    @Elizabelle

    MM should know that, but it’s not a comfortable fact for him.

    I’m also aware of who’s President, and why.

  102. 102.

    Zzyzx

    February 12, 2020 at 11:53 am

    @Baud:

    I was in a band in college named Plumb Awful (named after the “My dog has no nose” joke). But some wanted Plumb, some wanted Plum, and one wanted Plum Offal, so we made it Plum(b) Awful.

    Then we had a personnel switch due to graduation so we dropped the b to signify that and became Plum() Awful.

  103. 103.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 11:53 am

    ???

    Total new aircraft orders won in January 2020:Airbus, 274Boeing, 0.Boeing’s worst month since its merger with McDonnell Douglas. https://t.co/NBAAxJhcNg— Reid Wilson (@PoliticsReid) February 12, 2020

  104. 104.

    ixnay

    February 12, 2020 at 11:54 am

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Grammar is complicated. Offered without further comment:

    https://grammarist.com/idiom/tinkers-damn-and-tinkers-dam/

  105. 105.

    Geminid

    February 12, 2020 at 11:55 am

    @Comrade Scrutinizer:  I am repeating myself but I heard an interesting fact last week: of 10 major party candidates in 5 presidential contest since 2000, Trump had the second lowest vote total, only slightly above John McCain, 2008.

  106. 106.

    rp

    February 12, 2020 at 11:56 am

    @Elizabelle:

    I have my doubts about Trump’s Electoral College “victory” in the swing states.

    Is this even in question at this point (at least among rational people)? I have zero confidence in the 2016 results in PA, WI, and MI.

  107. 107.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 11:57 am

    Last night, Warren’s speech focussed primarily on fighting corruption. It was her main theme twice in her speech. The other theme was party unity. She specifically called out people associated with a campaign who “cursed” other Dem. candidates. It was a really great speech with great themes. Maybe too late to break through, now. I really recommend it.

    Klobuchar’s speech was just her standard stump plus thank yous. She really needs to up her game on her narrative construction. Her story is so strong, but her telling of it is like she is recounting it in the third person. Maybe she has said it so many times it’s no longer fresh to her. Or maybe that is the way one looks at one’s life when you had a seriously alcoholic father. I could give her speech more emo than she did.

  108. 108.

    MisterForkbeard

    February 12, 2020 at 11:59 am

    @Barbara: I’m not certain she could have avoided it after coming out in favor of M4A, which I suppose was the original sin.

    Warren’s brand is “I have a plan for that”, and she was under a LOT of pressure to show her plan for M4A. It’s the biggest thing she’s proposing, so that makes sense even if it irks me that Bernie got away with handwaving his own proposal.

    Basically, she had to have a plan for it. Maybe she should have been more vague or built in more caveats, but I once she said she supported it fully there wasn’t really a way out for her. And it bit her 6 months later.

  109. 109.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 11:59 am

    @rikyrah: So much winning!!!!!

    Thank you rikyrah for that reminder.

  110. 110.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 12:00 pm

    @Zzyzx: 1981?

  111. 111.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 12:01 pm

    In Bloomberg's #NYC, *thousands* of innocent Muslims were subject to photo and video surveillance. Undercover cops infiltrated their mosques, schools, businesses and restaurants. Just because they were Muslim.https://t.co/N6PqqN1YlX— Muslim Advocates (@MuslimAdvocates) February 11, 2020

  112. 112.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 12:01 pm

    @gene108: Tulsi isn’t sure if there are even any crimes. So, there’s that. But she’s not really a Democrat.

  113. 113.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 12:02 pm

    .@MikeBloomberg has been out of the mayor’s office for 7 yrs.He neither thought to apologize for #StopAndFrisk nor propose a plan to address racial inequity until he decided to run for POTUS & realized he needs Black votes.Now he thinks he can buy us like we’re still chattel. https://t.co/Iu4sPs1vrN— Bishop Talbert Swan (@TalbertSwan) February 12, 2020

  114. 114.

    ixnay

    February 12, 2020 at 12:04 pm

    @ixnay: 
    (Late to the party, I see. Apologies. And, of course, the issue is not grammar, per se. Just woke up for the second time: dog had a seizure way too early this a.m., and we both went back to bed.)

  115. 115.

    Mandalay

    February 12, 2020 at 12:04 pm

    @MisterForkbeard:

    He’s benefited enormously from not having to detail this proposal at all, and Warren basically took the heat for trying to figure out how to make it work.

    I’m not hearing Warren joke “I’ve got a plan for that!” any more. I think she’s finally worked out that it is not automatically a vote winner. Sanders and Buttigieg don’t even talk in specifics, never mind having detailed plans. The only interest Biden would have in a plan is challenging it to a push up contest.

    The objective is to get nominated, and then get elected. Plans don’t count for much beyond getting a pat on the back from Krugman. You only have to look at Trump’s successful campaign to see that.

  116. 116.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2020 at 12:05 pm

    @Elizabelle:

    I have my doubts about Trump’s Electoral College “victory” in the swing states.

    This. Thought then and think now, there was fuckery afoot. Fuckery galore, I might add.

  117. 117.

    joel hanes

    February 12, 2020 at 12:06 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Thanks.  I actually love the old metaphors in these turns of phrase.

  118. 118.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    @rikyrah: and the poison of the Giuliani and Bloomberg years lingers in the police force. Some mentally ill man shot two officers (both lived) in NYC this weekend. The police response? Going to “war” with DiBlasio. At least the Sargeant’s Union has declared war. Those armed assholes must stop this crap.

  119. 119.

    Skepticat

    February 12, 2020 at 12:08 pm

    @MattF:

    I predict PRAY that Amy will drop the hammer on Roger.

  120. 120.

    WaterGirl

    February 12, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    @download my app in the app store mistermix: You’re going to ruin one of my top 5 favorite songs of all time by associating it with the democratic candidate that I like the least, aren’t you?

    (please insert my silently begging you not to, here)

    On the other hand, I wholeheartedly endorse the association with the possibility of the judge handing all of the crooks their asses, and focusing the spotlight to our rogue AG.

  121. 121.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    @ixnay: poor pup.  I hope he is OK and can get the right med blend.  So hard!

  122. 122.

    MattF

    February 12, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    @Mandalay: Trump had a plan– to lie about everything, repeatedly. And it worked. I don’t think any of the D candidates has really dealt with this.

  123. 123.

    lee

    February 12, 2020 at 12:12 pm

    Regarding the ‘Look forward not backwards’.

    IIRC, Pete said something similar early on in his campaign. I do not recall him ever repeating it or saying anything different.

    I would really like someone to ask him (and all the other candidates) a question on this very topic.

  124. 124.

    Geminid

    February 12, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    Another encouraging fact: unlike in 2016, Pennsylvania, Michigan,  and Wisconsin now have democratic governors, which will make it harder to steal the election- which I believe the Republicans did in 2016. My neighboring state of North Carolina has a dem governor also. And a good senate candidate, Cal Cunningham.

  125. 125.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 12, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    @Immanentize: I thought Klobuchar’s speech felt long.

  126. 126.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 12:14 pm

    @rikyrah: This is what’s so dispiriting about the reports that Bloomberg is the #2 choice of black voters, after Biden. Bloomberg is a racist. He’s also a misogynist, and a believer in rich people just being better people. He’s better than Dump, but so is a moldy pickle sandwich.

    I hope that the reports are just bullshit. Or else Biden gets a blowout in South Carolina and we don’t have to find out.

  127. 127.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2020 at 12:18 pm

    @Baud: She bear hugged BS with that rigged primary stuff. She repeatedly has shown poor political judgment.

  128. 128.

    Elizabelle

    February 12, 2020 at 12:19 pm

    @Geminid:   That’s a good point about the Democratic governors, and it is true.

    I hope that, once we retake the White House this year — and maybe the Senate too, and keep the House —

    that we can do a forensic accounting of the votes in the Swing States.

    Trump was legitimized by the meeting of the Electoral College (and fuck them), but I suspect he got there on stolen votes.

  129. 129.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Don’t you think that was because it wasn’t moving?

  130. 130.

    catclub

    February 12, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    Bloomberg headline:  Sanders Tightens His Grip on Race, With Klobuchar Rising

     

    Seems a little early, when Buttigieg has one delegate more,  and tied Sanders in NH.

  131. 131.

    Kay

    February 12, 2020 at 12:21 pm

    He also said Jordan called him repeatedly in July 2018, after media outlets quoted his brother, Michael DiSabato, saying Strauss’ abuse was common knowledge to those surrounding the wrestling program, including Jordan.
    “Jim Jordan called me crying, groveling… begging me to go against my brother…That’s the kind of cover-up that’s going on there,” he said.
    “Are you guys going to do what you’re voted to do?” he told lawmakers later. “That’s the only reason I’m here.”

    It’s testimony in the statehouse for an abuse victims bill. Of course Jordan knew. Everyone in that room knows he knew, and so does everyone at Ohio State.

    They’re looking forward, never backward, so of course no one rich or powerful will ever be punished or held to account, even though it’s clear most them lied their asses off. Ethically bankrupt, the whole sorry lot of them.

    The university is the worst of the bunch, IMO, because they supposedly have a duty to students, specifically.

  132. 132.

    James E Powell

    February 12, 2020 at 12:22 pm

    @rikyrah:

    Chris Hayes will never say this but to have two candidates who were unknowns a year ago each come within single digits with a guy from a neighbouring state who has been campaigning for five years isn’t a good look for “Our Revolution”— Dan SIoan

    Completely agree. And if the press/media were not promoting and protecting Sanders, that would have been the story out of New Hampshire. I saw an exit poll that showed only 63% of his 2016 voters stayed with him.

  133. 133.

    Bex

    February 12, 2020 at 12:22 pm

    @sdhays: She’s not really a candidate.

  134. 134.

    catclub

    February 12, 2020 at 12:22 pm

    @Geminid: Those are encouraging facts. Are there critical stealable states with GOP government? Given Florida and Ohio went for Trump before, I think very few.

  135. 135.

    Geminid

    February 12, 2020 at 12:23 pm

    @rikyrah:    Boeing subcontractors in Kansas are already laying off. May help Barbara Boullier, a moderate Republican who switched parties after backing Democrat Laura Kelly in 2018. According to her website, “A doctor, not a politician, who is running to fix the mess in Washington.” Has a real chance.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 12:24 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Warren isn’t the only one who didn’t employ that strategy.

  137. 137.

    misterpuff

    February 12, 2020 at 12:26 pm

    Deval Patrick quits race

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/deval-patrick-quits-race-for-democratic-presidential-nomination-2020-02-12?mod=bnbh

    Bain down drain.

  138. 138.

    WaterGirl

    February 12, 2020 at 12:26 pm

    @rikyrah: Is it wrong that I would kind of like to see Bloomberg’s head on a pike?  I would like to see some accountability, or accounting, at the very least, of his (on balance) terrible record for Democrats.

    Bloomberg is not our friend.  Neither is Bernie.

    I think the others are, even Steyer.

  139. 139.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 12:27 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: I get so annoyed by this because there are probably fewer than 100 people in the nation who have more knowledge about how Medicare works than I do, and in my view Medicare is a lousy benefit plan to build on and M4A is a slogan and a badge of ignorance about how Medicare actually works, not a strong policy position.  I lost a lot of respect for Warren when she did that.  It showed me that she doesn’t know enough about Medicare.  But, you know, I support her with money nonetheless.

  140. 140.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2020 at 12:29 pm

    @Baud:

    Yeah. Kamala Harris embracing M4A at the get go was  a mistake. They mistook Twitter for the real world.

  141. 141.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    @catclub: Georgia is definitely going to see some more shenanigans, as will Ohio and Florida (as usual).

  142. 142.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2020 at 12:30 pm

    @Barbara: M4A is not just a policy it is a shibboleth for the online left. Like the “WALL” is for MAGA peeps.

  143. 143.

    James E Powell

    February 12, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    @Barbara:

    And really, as a Clinton voter, the only candidate I know who is probably disdainful of Clinton voters like me is Sanders.

    It is surprising and disturbing that Sanders does not seem to appreciate that he alienated a significant portion of the Democratic electorate in 2016 and that he must do something to heal that breach.

  144. 144.

    rikyrah

    February 12, 2020 at 12:31 pm

     

     

    Watching Finding Your Roots. I know this past week was a re-run, but I hadn’t seen it.
    S. Epatha’s ancestors were part of the Georgetown University slaves. They traced her ancestry back to 1777…a year after the beginning of the American Revolution. And, folks dare to purse their lips on how we should ‘go back to Africa’.

    Phuck Outta Here-we are a Founding Population of this country. Our ancestors built it.??

  145. 145.

    the Conster

    February 12, 2020 at 12:33 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    No one learned anything from the blue wave, which was a health care election.  It was about pre-existing conditions, and keeping what we have that covers them.  No one wants to hear from Democrats about repealing and replacing Obamacare.  I mean, Trump’s election strategy will be to lie about saving healthcare from Democrats, while simultaneously using the courts to destroy it.  Why isn’t anyone listening to Nancy Pelosi?  It’s madness.

  146. 146.

    MattF

    February 12, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    @WaterGirl: I see Bloomberg as the Wall Street candidate. Not the clown-car ‘Wall Street’ of CNBC, populated with shouty and useless predictions of what the stock market is going to do, but of the NYC financial industry, brokerages and banks that employ thousands of people. That works in NYC, it’s not obvious to me how that works elsewhere.

  147. 147.

    James E Powell

    February 12, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    @WaterGirl:

     Is it wrong that I would kind of like to see Bloomberg’s head on a pike?  I would like to see some accountability, or accounting, at the very least, of his (on balance) terrible record for Democrats.

    I would like him to withdraw after Super Tuesday but remain our friend ally in the effort to defeat Trump.

  148. 148.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    @Kay: This is so telling, because in my view Jordan, who was a young assistant coach, probably felt like he had minimal power to do anything about the situation and might very well even have been a victim of the doctor’s predations.  And he can’t even bring himself to support his friends by giving an honest accounting of what he knew.  I mean, what a piece of shit.

  149. 149.

    Geminid

    February 12, 2020 at 12:35 pm

    @catclub:

     

    @catclub:   no joy in Florida, Georgia, Texas or Arizona- they all have republican governors. Makes voter suppression, election security crucial issues. Especially in Florida, which has had most recent statewide elections decided by less than 2%.

  150. 150.

    nyrobbin

    February 12, 2020 at 12:36 pm

    @MattF:

    Miss Jackson, if you’re nasty.

  151. 151.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 12:36 pm

    @WaterGirl: It’s not wrong. He’s trying to get around accountability by leveraging his billions to enter the race at the very last minute and avoid the scrutiny all the other candidates have had to face. He’s not a nice man and would be a horrible Democratic President.

  152. 152.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 12:36 pm

    @catclub: I think this is what you call a signal to people: If you don’t want Bernie, vote for Amy. Of course, I could be wrong.

  153. 153.

    Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog

    February 12, 2020 at 12:37 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: That may not be correct.  “A tinker’s curse” seems have been in common use earlier than the first “it’s dam, not damn” explanations started to circulate.

     

    (Pedantic demurrer of the day.)

  154. 154.

    Jeffro

    February 12, 2020 at 12:39 pm

    @gene108:

     

    @Immanentize:

     

    @patrick II:

     

    @lee:

    It’s one of a handful of questions I have for the remaining Dem candidates:

    • are you committed to pursuing, to the fullest extent of the law, all instances of criminal wrongdoing by the trumpov administration and its appointees?

    Anything less than a firm “yes” and you’re out.

    (the other questions: AA VP running mate (preferably AA female; working with a Dem House and Senate to restore progressive tax rates/rescind most of the W and trumpov tax scams; mobilizing the govt to fight climate change including a carbon tax; no Republicans in the Cabinet; and doubling the size of the federal judiciary to reduce backlog and mitigate trumpov/McConnell’s court-packing)

  155. 155.

    Mandalay

    February 12, 2020 at 12:40 pm

    @James E Powell:

    And if the press/media were not promoting and protecting Sanders, that would have been the story out of New Hampshire.

    Poppycock. There are at least four bigger stories coming out of New Hampshire:

    • Biden in freefall.
    • Warren wobbling.
    • Who Won in New Hampshire? Not the Establishment.
    • Bloomberg salivating at the prospect of no clear leader.

    Yet you think Sanders winning by a couple of points less than polling predicted is the real story? Get a grip.

  156. 156.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 12:41 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Okay, I don’t really think the Wall is comparable to M4A!  Medicare is, after all, a fairly successful program for millions of people who would otherwise never be able to obtain medical care.  Medicare is a good program but it has many flaws that make it hard to improve and it has always relied on private insurers to administer it and to fill in its gaps.  My objection is mostly to the complete ignorance of those who spout the slogan about how it actually works.  There are things about Medicare that are really good but the structure of benefits is archaic.

  157. 157.

    FlipYrWhig

    February 12, 2020 at 12:42 pm

    @James E Powell: Sanders has been operating all along under the presumption that he has 40-something percent of the Dem vote in the bag because he had it last time, so he assumed he really just needs to sit back and wait out everyone else.

    The problem is that he actually only has ~25% in the bag. He and the Bros have never understood that half the people who voted for him last time liked him better than Hillary Clinton but maybe didn’t much like him *for him*.

  158. 158.

    Kay

    February 12, 2020 at 12:43 pm

    @Barbara:

    And he can’t even bring himself to support his friends by giving an honest accounting of what he knew

    That’s it exactly- supporting them isn’t even that risky for him, and he won’t do it.

  159. 159.

    Mallard Filmore

    February 12, 2020 at 12:43 pm

    @Elizabelle:

     

    Trump was legitimized by the meeting of the Electoral College (and fuck them), but I suspect he got there on stolen votes.

    If Hillary had won, the Republicans in Congress would have stonewalled her all the way, along with endless hearings and investigations. They would have kept their “reasonable” leaders of the country image. That is burned up now.

  160. 160.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 12:44 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I will say this 1000 times:  Anyone who draws general principles from sui generis events is an idiot. Primaries and elections are sui generis events.  Someone who assumed that everyone who voted for Sanders last time would do so again must really not think about these things very deeply.

  161. 161.

    Jeffro

    February 12, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @Elizabelle:

     

    @rp:

     

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I firmly believe those states’ massive upswing in previously-infrequent GOP voters was due to hacked/added-to vote totals.  Just barely enough to ‘win’, just enough to be plausible.

    3pm on Election Day and Jim Smith hasn’t voted yet?  check

    3:30pm and Mary Jones hasn’t voted yet?  check

    and so on…

    All directed by the Cambridge Analytica info Manafort shared with the Russians.  And then all covered up with assistance from Jill Stein and her fake recount, muddy-the-waters efforts in those exact same states.

    Which is not to say their own GOTV and their anti-Dem, anti-GOTV efforts weren’t helpful as well.  But if they keep it close, they can cheat for those last couple votes and ‘win’.

  162. 162.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @Barbara: It is similar in a way that they are both slogans to rouse the base

  163. 163.

    MattF

    February 12, 2020 at 12:46 pm

    @Jeffro: There’s legal liability and political liability as well. Will Republicans be held responsible for their politically evil behavior? Unclear.

  164. 164.

    Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog

    February 12, 2020 at 12:47 pm

    @Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog: Curses.  Pipped at the post.

  165. 165.

    Jeffro

    February 12, 2020 at 12:47 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: agreed

     

    @Barbara: I think he making the comparison as a rallying cry, a mantra…not comparing them in terms of policies

  166. 166.

    WaterGirl

    February 12, 2020 at 12:48 pm

    @sdhays: If you can purchase the candidacy for President of the United States with your own money, we are truly a banana republic.

    To even want to do that, or try to do that, makes you unfit to hold the office.

  167. 167.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s just not the same.  People asking for M4A are expressing a desire for the adoption of a truly necessary policy change that is long overdue.  I think their single minded focus on M4A is misguided, but the underlying policy desire is totally understandable.  The Wall is just a signal for letting xenophobes know that you all hate the same people.

  168. 168.

    Jeffro

    February 12, 2020 at 12:49 pm

    @MattF: only way to do that is at the ballot box, since they aren’t willing to punish their own for misconduct.  Quite the opposite, unfortunately.

  169. 169.

    Jeffro

    February 12, 2020 at 12:51 pm

    Btw did anyone notice but Deval Patrick dropped out.

    Both of his voters go to Klobuchar, I think ;)

  170. 170.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2020 at 12:53 pm

    @Barbara: I am not saying they are the same as a matter of policy, they are not. They both serve as rallying cries for the respective bases of the two demagogues..

  171. 171.

    MattF

    February 12, 2020 at 12:54 pm

    @Jeffro: ‘Former governor of Massachusetts’ doesn’t seem to be a plus for one’s resume.

  172. 172.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 12:55 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: At least some of them didn’t even like him better than Hillary, but voted for him for other reasons. When he started out, he wasn’t really running for President (because that would be silly) but to create a new progressive movement. Before Iowa, he said “I’m sick of hearing about your damn emails!” That Bernie seemed like a positive agent for liberal values and a harmless and useful foil for an actually quite liberal Hillary.

    Personally, in 2016 I saw the total shitshow going on in the Republican Primary and how the media was so entertained by it, I thought it would be a good thing to have a longer contest on the Democratic side where a conversation about liberal values and priorities would have to be reported on. My state voted fairly early (heavily for Clinton). Sanders then decided that he actually had a shot (when he didn’t) and went negative against Clinton.

    I consider it a betrayal and I won’t forget it.

  173. 173.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 12:56 pm

    @WaterGirl: Well said.

  174. 174.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    February 12, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Maybe. It didn’t feel like it had a shape. It was like a shopping list.

  175. 175.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 12, 2020 at 12:57 pm

    @Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog: that’s interesting, I wonder if tinker’s damn got bowdlerized into tinker’s dam

  176. 176.

    Baud

    February 12, 2020 at 12:59 pm

    @sdhays: It was the damn bird.  Post-bird was very negative.

  177. 177.

    gene108

    February 12, 2020 at 1:02 pm

    @Immanentize:

    Klobuchar’s speech was just her standard stump plus thank yous. She really needs to up her game on her narrative construction. Her story is so strong, but her telling of it is like she is recounting it in the third person. Maybe she has said it so many times it’s no longer fresh to her. Or maybe that is the way one looks at one’s life when you had a seriously alcoholic father. I could give her speech more emo than she did.

    Bill Clinton can really connect his past to people’s present, and his step-father was an alcoholic.

    If she needs to find a way to make herself more personable to audience, she needs to watch Bill speaking about his childhood.

  178. 178.

    Gin & Tonic

    February 12, 2020 at 1:05 pm

    Notes from the field. Just returned from four days in SLC (fuck me for booking a red-eye with a connection in ATL.) Driving into the city from the south on I-15 I saw two normal highway-sized billboards with a pic of Mitt Romney and the words “Integrity Matters” in letters about as large as could fit. I did not see him being burned in effigy anywhere.

  179. 179.

    SiubhanDuinne

    February 12, 2020 at 1:07 pm

    @Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog:

     

    Thanks, yes. Others have pointed that out above, and I responded.

  180. 180.

    glory b

    February 12, 2020 at 1:09 pm

    @sdhays: Remember, it was Tad Devine (Manafort’s partner) who convinced Sanders to make a real run for the presidency. Before that, he just had in mind adding some more progressive programs to the Dems slate.

     

    People seem to have forgotten this very early tie Sanders had to the funky stuff going on. How did Sanders come up with him anyway. Did he offer his services like someone else we know? Someone who Trump is tweeting about today (cough Manfort cough)?

  181. 181.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 12, 2020 at 1:14 pm

    @glory b: Putin can be very convincing. How have you been? We haven’t crossed paths much off late.

  182. 182.

    Cacti

    February 12, 2020 at 1:18 pm

    @glory b: Bernie also had (still has?) a weekly segment on the Kremlin-affiliated Thom Hartmann Program, called “Brunch with Bernie”, where sycophantic callers and host would hang on his every word.

  183. 183.

    trnc

    February 12, 2020 at 1:19 pm

    @rikyrah: Bernie’s losing voters who didn’t support him or Clinton in 2016

    Huh? How does a candidate lose voters whose support they never had?

  184. 184.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 1:20 pm

    @glory b: I remember it. I think there’s quite a lot of story to tell there. I wonder if we’ll ever find out.

  185. 185.

    Ruckus

    February 12, 2020 at 1:21 pm

    @Barbara:

    I agree with you on Medicare. It’s far better than nothing and it has been made worse over the last couple of decades, not better. If you are over 65 and don’t have any other choice, it’s still not a good choice, but it is your only choice. It will leave you broke and possibly a bit healthier.

    Basing a healthcare plan on it really isn’t a great idea.

  186. 186.

    JaySinWA

    February 12, 2020 at 1:22 pm

    @Barbara: Your view of Jordan as young, powerless and potentially a victim makes me wonder if his response isn’t similar to young women or boys who are abused and can’t bring themselves to confront or acknowledge that it happened.

    The church scandals had family and peer pressure to keep people ashamed and quiet. This was a similar environment. It takes a certain courage to fight that, even after it is exposed.

    @Kay: It may be that it isn’t as risk free as we assume. He certainly was complicit if he failed to report something he knew. He may not have criminal issues, but admitting that could well be damaging to his political future.

  187. 187.

    sdhays

    February 12, 2020 at 1:22 pm

    @trnc: They’re lost in between the couch cushions.

  188. 188.

    The Moar You Know

    February 12, 2020 at 1:22 pm

    Trump had a plan– to lie about everything, repeatedly. And it worked. I don’t think any of the D candidates has really dealt with this.

    @MattF:  Hell, our society has no idea how to deal with it.  He literally lies about everything.  His supporters love it, his detractors get so mad about the firehose of consequence-free lying that they lose track of the bigger picture and get bogged down in trying to address the bullshit.  It’s a stunningly effective way to rule, provided you don’t give a shit about the welfare of the nation or people you are ruling.

  189. 189.

    Mandalay

    February 12, 2020 at 1:26 pm

    @Barbara:

    Someone who assumed that everyone who voted for Sanders last time would do so again must really not think about these things very deeply.

    This, many times over. And those who are triumphantly cackling that his percentage of the vote is down from last time seem oblivious to the fact that there are a lot more contenders now.

    If you loathe Sanders with every fiber of your being that’s fine, but there are otherwise smart posters here who repeatedly frame events solely in terms of Sanders. If you do that you can’t possibly appreciate what’s really going on.

  190. 190.

    Dr. Omed

    February 12, 2020 at 1:31 pm

    (“Shithouse lawyer” is a term I learned from an Army officer describing the legal strategies some of his troops used when they were defending themselves in what I think is called an “Article 15”. It was because they came up with their strategy while sitting in the shitter that morning. Seems apt here.)

    Well, then, Trump is plainly, supremely, the Shithouse President. #ShithousePresident

  191. 191.

    Josie

    February 12, 2020 at 1:32 pm

    @gene108:

    It seemed to me that she was following a presentation similar to Clinton’s “I feel your pain.”  She did a thing with “If you have a ……..problem, I know you, and I will fight for you.”  I thought it was pretty effective.

  192. 192.

    Mandalay

    February 12, 2020 at 1:33 pm

    @trnc:

    How does a candidate lose voters whose support they never had?

    Exactly. And also this gem:

    Bernie’s losing first time voters

    It’s hardly surprising that there is meaningless anti-Sanders shit being posted on the internet, but it’s a bit worrying that folks here repost the drivel as though it offers profound insight.

  193. 193.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 1:38 pm

    @Mandalay: Maybe you can enlighten us.

  194. 194.

    jeffreyw

    February 12, 2020 at 1:50 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Dammit, Amir, I’m a tinker, not a tailor, soldier, nor a spy.

  195. 195.

    lee

    February 12, 2020 at 1:56 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I’ve also been reading that his base has actually shrunk since 2016. Still large, but not nearly what it once was.

  196. 196.

    Bill Arnold

    February 12, 2020 at 2:01 pm

    @MattF:

    Some insight into Trump’s appeal to Evanglicals.

    Nicely done piece! [1]
    Another recent piece at that site:
    The Gospel According to Mad King Donald – Thursday’s outbursts didn’t teach us much about Donald Trump. But they taught us a lot about the Republican party. (Charles Sykes, February 7, 2020)
    and mediabiasfactcheck:
    “The Bulwark – Right Center Bias – Conservative – Republican – Libertarian – Credible”

    [1] Formal link with byline just because. Trumpism Is the Prosperity Gospel of Politics – Success is yours, if you will just enter into a personal relationship in supporting Donald Trump. (Jonathan V. Last, February 11, 2020)

  197. 197.

    Ksmiami

    February 12, 2020 at 2:02 pm

    @rikyrah: well producing defective product and killing your customers is generally not a great strategy

  198. 198.

    Chyron HR

    February 12, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    @Mandalay:

    BLEEP BOOP BEEP BOOP HOW CAN ONE LOSE FIRST-TIME VOTERS I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR HUMAN VERNACULAR ERROR ERROR ERROR

  199. 199.

    jonas

    February 12, 2020 at 2:23 pm

    Jackson, as I understand it, can depart from the prosecution’s recommendations, but is not doubt aware that what Trump is doing is setting up the pretext for a pardon. Step 1: have Wingnut Wurlizer go into high gear decrying horrible sentencing recommendations for poor Roger, who didn’t even do anything wrong, you know? Step 2:  have DOJ force prosecutors to dramatically revise their recommendations downwards. Step 3: when judge hands down longer sentence, say pardon is in order to remedy tyrannical judge’s behavior.

    Bada bing!

  200. 200.

    Another Scott

    February 12, 2020 at 2:25 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    S1129 – Medicare for All Act of 2019 had 14 co-sponsors and was introduced 04/10/2019. (It’s in the Finance Committee and will die there.)

    It wasn’t just some Twitter flash-in-the-pan thing.

    If it wasn’t M4A, it would have been the DNA test, or the “rigged” thing (that she walked back less than a week later), or a dozen other things. Her detailed M4A plan makes it clear that it’s aspirational, will happen over time, etc. Every politician who is willing to stick their neck out for change will be unfairly attacked about something stupid that resonates with our lizard brains.

    I think Warren has done very well, given all the opposition she’s faced. She’s still fighting. Let’s see how ex-Mayor Pete handles his time in the barrel.

    It’s still early. We’ll see what happens…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  201. 201.

    KSinMA

    February 12, 2020 at 2:25 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Ha! I bet your grandmother had lots of company, back in the day.

  202. 202.

    Immanentize

    February 12, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    @MattF:

    ‘Former governor of Massachusetts’ doesn’t seem to be a plus for one’s resume

    It seems to work in Utah!

  203. 203.

    James E Powell

    February 12, 2020 at 2:28 pm

    In 2016, whenever Hillary Clinton fell short of the percentages she won in 2008, it was held to be a sign that she was a deeply flawed candidate whose emails were a threat to the American way of life. But I guess when I a guy whose been campaigning for the last five years gets half of what he got last time around, losing votes to two people the voters never heard of till a few months ago, it’s totally different.

  204. 204.

    J R in WV

    February 12, 2020 at 2:36 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Your Morning Pedantry: It is not “a tinker’s damn” but “a tinker’s dam.”

    Thanks! It’s so great to learn yet another trivial fact with which to pummel other folks who haven’t learned that particular fact yet! B J is great for that.

  205. 205.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    February 12, 2020 at 2:38 pm

    @Mandalay: I read about that incident fairly recently.

    My wife and I were of high-school age in ’73-74. We were talking about John Mitchell recently and about the Martha Mitchell kidnapping and drugging. We agreed that neither of us had heard of that at the time, and also we had a vague impression that Martha was known to be an alcoholic and unreliable.

    In other words, we had both separately been taken in by the Republican cover-up and remembered the “alternate facts” version as if it was reality.

    It’s embarrassing to admit that about myself.

  206. 206.

    PST

    February 12, 2020 at 3:14 pm

    @jonas:

    Step 3: when judge hands down longer sentence, say pardon is in order to remedy tyrannical judge’s behavior.

    Part of what makes the attack on Judge Jackson so despicable is that nothing she can do can prevent the public from wondering if her judgment was swayed. She can be as wise and just as Solomon, but no matter what she does, suspicions will remain that she knuckled under to pressure, or bent over backwards to avoid looking like she knuckled under, etc. And that is just among people of good faith. The filthy trumpists will put whatever negative spin they like and used it as an excuse for a pardon. She’s damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t, which is why presidents who care about democratic norms keep quiet.

  207. 207.

    A Ghost To Most

    February 12, 2020 at 3:16 pm

    @J R in WV: Personally, I prefer “husky rat’s ass”. Tinkers went the way of buggywhip makers.

  208. 208.

    Barbara

    February 12, 2020 at 3:26 pm

    @Chyron HR: I assume it means the percentage of “first time voters” who voted for Sanders this time versus last time.  This seems pretty obvious to me. Yes, it was a misuse of the English language to characterize it in terms of “losing” those voters who, by definition, have never voted previously.

  209. 209.

    J R in WV

    February 12, 2020 at 3:30 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    If you can purchase the candidacy for President of the United States with your own money, we are truly a banana republic.

    To even want to do that, or try to do that, makes you unfit to hold the office.

    This, a thousand time, this!

    I was appalled when W Bush was willing to cheat in Florida, cheat in the courts, allow Sandra Day O’Conner to cheat for him at the Supreme Court, to take the presidency from the actual winner.

    Does any true champion cheat to win? Nope! But Bush did, proving at that moment that he was not fit to be president at all. So no surprise that he was a terrible president, perhaps the worst ever, until Drumpf happened to us all. Bush is a monster responsible for more deliberate pointless death of innocents than any in modern times. Trump can still catch up with Bush, though.

  210. 210.

    Elie

    February 12, 2020 at 3:45 pm

     

    I’m late to the thread but I totally believe that we had better get ready to be in the streets around election time.  We are going to have to fight this and there is no roadmap for it so get ready for whatever.  This is their second phase of corruption and it is only going to get worse and worse.  Not trying to be a crepe hanger but honestly, we have to get ready for what will be in front of us.  The GOP is corrupt to its core and so we will get no “rule of law” from any of them.

    The eyes of the free world and civil society are on us.

  211. 211.

    artem1s

    February 12, 2020 at 3:50 pm

    Any doubt now that the next House hearings should be an investigation of corruption of the AG?  Not sure if that constitutes impeachment or some other vehicle.  But he is clearly obstructing justice on behalf of the WH.

  212. 212.

    JoeyJoeJoe

    February 12, 2020 at 4:00 pm

    Late note:  Republican governors in some key states were mentioned.  It’s the Secretary of State positions that might be most important.  Arizona has a Democratic one.  They have a lot of influence in voting.

  213. 213.

    Chris Johnson

    February 12, 2020 at 4:52 pm

    @J R in WV: Ain’t even a matter of being a champion (maybe in a certain sense of the word?)

    If you are a public servant you are running to represent groups of people and serve their interests. Maybe a town, a city, even a state: or, like Obama understood, ending up representing ALL the people and tasked with serving the lot of them, as best you can.

    Bloomberg, or any billionaire real or fake, is incapable of this. EVEN if he did not focus solely on self-aggrandizement, he absolutely does not get the concept because he considers his wealth as the evidence he is better than all of those people: thus he is morally bound NOT to listen to them, because they all failed.

    Serve them? To him, that’s a fucking cookbook.

  214. 214.

    Sis

    February 12, 2020 at 5:38 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thanks for the heads-up! I’ll check and DVR it. She was a fascinating character from what I’ve heard.

  215. 215.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    February 12, 2020 at 6:11 pm

    @James E Powell: You mean Impeach Trump, even though they knew it would fail in the Senate just to Troll Trump isn’t enough for you?

  216. 216.

    grammypat

    February 12, 2020 at 8:00 pm

    @download my app in the app store mistermix:

    Regardless of *which* Amy, props on the Pure Prairie League reference.  I could say that I dated one of the members, but it was just the lust that I fondly remember.

  217. 217.

    Tehanu

    February 12, 2020 at 8:43 pm

    I’m surprised that ABJ didn’t charge Stone with contempt of court when he put out that thing of her in a gunsight on social media. If any ordinary defendant did that to a judge, they’d be in the slammer 5 seconds after arriving in the courtroom.

  218. 218.

    burnspbesq

    February 12, 2020 at 10:22 pm

    @James E Powell:

    It is surprising and disturbing that Sanders does not seem to appreciate that he alienated a significant portion of the Democratic electorate in 2016 and that he must do something to heal that breach.

    Wilmer’s closest advisors are Nina Turner and David Sirota, and you’re surprised that he isn’t getting good information?

    Incidentally, Wilmer has a big problem in Nevada. The Culinary Workers union holds the balance of power in Democratic politics there, and the leadership is busily reminding the rank and file that the health plan they have negotiated over the last couple of decades  is way better than what they would get under any version of M4A.

  219. 219.

    No One You Know

    February 13, 2020 at 2:22 am

    @gene108: Traumatized people frequently take their experience ads a survival lesson. There’s something wrong with with someone who goes through that and then acts as if all the healing work didn’t happen just so that he or she can emote on command.

    I loved her speech and felt much better about her in part because I do empathize with her experience.

  220. 220.

    ottercliff

    February 13, 2020 at 10:53 am

    @germy: Most likely Stone has knowledge of some of Trump’s crimes and needs to be handled delicately. The coming pardon will take care of that.

    When that happens: Susan Collins will be concerned, Lisa Murkowski will want more information, Lindsey Graham will be in complete agreement. Just a guess.

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