This 2019 Bloomberg clip is getting a lot of play on progressive-leaning sites because of Bloomberg’s shitty comments about transgender people and his allegation that identity issues hurt Democrats:
“If your conversation during a presidential election is about some guy wearing a dress and whether he, she, or it can go to the locker room with their daughter, that’s not a winning formula for most people,” Bloomberg said.
I thought this excerpt about running for president in 2020 was interesting. Bloomberg says he can’t run as a Republican because Trump and then talks about how he wouldn’t be a viable candidate for the Democratic Party’s nomination either because the party has moved so far left and his views are “centralist.”
Bloomberg says he’d have a ceiling of 30% in the Democratic Party and that his candidacy would only work if he went on an “apology tour” for his views. He’s on that tour now. In the clip, he also says he’s too old to run. This was last year, and he’s no younger. What changed?
download my app in the app store mistermix
Botox and brow lift?
different-church-lady
I don’t want Bloomberg, but if this election turns into Purity vs. Trump, then Trump is going to win.
Starfish
The number of Democrats trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory pissed him off.
Baud
Besides the insult, Hillary actually did not engage in this type of “conversation.”
Starfish
@different-church-lady: Right? Very few of us are pure under a constantly shifting and narrowing definition of purity.
The Moar You Know
Like the rest of us, he’s finally realized that Trump and his cadre of demons are not fucking around and really mean to change this country, fundamentally. And not in a good way. When you’re faced with that and you have any means to stop it, you do. And he’s gonna try.
I think that him being Jewish probably adds a little fire under the ass, as it were.
MattF
Bloomberg decided to run when Warren was peaking. She would challenge and change the way Wall Street does business, and he cares very much about that.
rp
Bad: The way he phrased this is stupid and insulting.
Good: He’s right that the GOP would love to have an election focused on these issues.
Bad: None of the Dem candidates are focusing on these issues, so it’s a strawman.
satby
@different-church-lady: I think so too.
@Starfish: I think had Biden been stronger out of the gate and Sanders weaker, Bloomberg wouldn’t have bothered. But I do think he has a real hatred for Trump and a fear of what a second Trump term would do. As do the vast majority of us.
rp
@MattF: I don’t buy that.
satby
@rp: well, this is a clip from last year, so it’s not current in that regard.
Betty Cracker
@MattF: That’s my working theory too. I hear all the “Democrats are fucking it all up” comments, but Bloomberg was probably right about his ceiling in the primary, and he must be able to see now that his massive ad buys are hurting center-left candidates and helping Sanders.
JR
What changed is that every candidate that might have been acceptable to folks like Bloomberg crashed and burned (or are in the process of doing so). I’m on the record as being for Warren, but much more lukewarm since she embraced M4A, so I don’t think you need folks like him on your side. But Bernie’s Jacobin-by-proxy strategy of attacking Democratic rivals is going to fuck all of us. We are getting fucked right now. I don’t have a solution, just venting.
CaseyL
More evidence that Bloomberg doesn’t mind the GOP, just Trump.
Since the entire GOP is a threat to the country, and Bloomberg doesn’t mind that, he’s not going to be much help.
kindness
I have faith that Bloomberg won’t be the one. I’m having less faith that my current choice, Elizabeth Warren will be able to rise from her spot in the running. My BernieBro FB friends are exploding with the assholiness that makes me really not like Bernie. But I will vote for Bernie in the general if he wins the nomination. Come Super Tuesday I will be voting for Senator Professor Warren however. The Primaries are where you vote your heart. The general is where you vote your brain.
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady:
You are absolutely right. We are tearing down each candidate one by one until we’ll have nothing left. They’re all human. They’re all better than Trump. (except Tulsi)
mrmoshpotato
@different-church-lady: But what about “Ewwwwww (Democratic corporate shill nominee)”? Certainly the fucking selfish asshole children have a point?
Gin & Tonic
Went for my annual physical with my PCP this morning, and before the appointment was filling out one of their regular questionnaires (name, medical history, changes in insurance, that sort of thing) which also had comprehensive questions about my gender identity and sexuality. Completely matter-of-fact. The concepts have gone mainstream, just like same-sex marriage has become ho-hum to most normal people.
germy
Warren got into the race.
Can’t have that.
MazeDancer
Think this is true. Bloomberg would have happily kept going with giving his money to Dem causes. Another 5 mil to Stacey Abrams, for example.
Problem: Biden isn’t weak because he isn’t wanted. He’s weak because he’ feels old. Watching him is painful and I can’t deny it anymore.
Warren is responsible for Bernie getting a free ride, IMHO. Her not separating from him, legitimized him. Covered his grifting.
She said they were no different, so America is going to choose the man.
If commenters across the internet can scream at her for months “If you won’t take on Bernie, you won’t take on Trump”, why won’t she listen?
She nice girled herself into oblivion.
Betty Cracker
Thinking out loud: Bloomberg knows his aerial bombardment via the ads is undercutting the center left people, not Sanders. He knows he can’t win the nomination (or at least knew it last year). Maybe his goal was to purchase a large enough polling bump to get on the debate stage and make a kamikaze run at Sanders?
Okay, but why not just buy ads pumping up Biden or whomever and tearing down Sanders? The only anti-Sanders ad I’ve seen from Bloomberg so far was the mean tweets one, which was catnip for the anti-Sanders Twitter people but perhaps incomprehensible to voters who AREN’T on Twitter, which is the vast majority of them?
Eh, I’m starting to get back to my original theory, which is that he really thinks he can win. It’s not a crazy idea if you have a $60B and people are scared enough. Maybe the Democratic voting public’s fear was all it took to change his calculus.
schrodingers_cat
Why has Warren never taken on BS? Also KH should have gone after BS rather than BIden. He has been getting too much of a pass from the Ds.
Jinchi
Ughh. I just read that Chuck Todd will be moderating the debate tonight.
Can’t we just strip the honor from the cable news talking heads and let local newspeople take over?
Jinchi
Early in the campaign, the media were baiting Warren and Sanders to take each other down. Warren and Sanders agreed not to take the bait. My guess is that was the smart move for both of them. Warren and Sanders have consistently been polling in the top 3, with Warren favored early on and Sanders favored more recently.
germy
@Jinchi:
League of Women Voters
wvng
I know this will be an unpopular position here, but trans activism has become extreme and is a source of significant pushback by a number of groups that had been natural allies. Very few people believe that there is no such thing as sex as a biological reality, which is where the trans movement has gone. It is absolutely crashing the Labour Party in Great Britain, and was one of the reasons for Labour’s epic defeat in the recent elections. Here is a good article about how this is playing out in GB. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/12/labour-leadership-row-over-support-for-trans-rights-charter
Jinchi
Your first guess was the right one. Bloomberg is a member of the “only I can fix it” political demographic.
Elizabelle
@MattF: That’s what I think. Bloomberg’s in there to take out Elizabeth. Bernie is a shouting white ineffective threat.
That and he despises/fears Trump. Twofer.
schrodingers_cat
@Jinchi: It has worked out quite well for the heart attack survivor from Vt, for Warren not so much.
mrmoshpotato
@Gin & Tonic: (name, medical history, changes in insurance, why you’re at your physical high on PCP, that sort of thing) ?
zhena gogolia
A preview of what we’re in for — I just saw a WaPo commenter say, “You want communism? Vote for Mike.” Bloomberg is now a communist.
Fasten your seatbelts.
germy
@Jinchi: The likes of Chuck Todd and Jonathan Karl were drooling over the idea of Warren and Sanders tearing into each other.
The “live mic” incident (where Warren said “I think you just called me a liar”): Did that ever happen after the Republican primary debates? We would have heard some salty stuff from that gang of idiots, but no.
Immanentize
People really need to stop caring about Medicare for All. It is a cudgel people use to dismiss Warren. Either she sucks because she was for it. Or she sucks because she only said she was for it because Bernie was for it and therefore it was her big tactical mistake. Or Warren sucks because her actual plan to get us to universal health insurance is too planny. Or else her plan to get us to universal health coverage will never work and is pie in the sky. Or else her plan was just too complicated and required math to understand….
M4A is friggin meaningless and nobody really cares about it! My Doctor told me he was for Warren but then decided her M4A plan wasn’t all he wished for. So he’s now supporting Sanders! Just be honest, Dudes, and oppose Warren because you want a he-man woman hater to take on the President of that club. I respect that!
Go into the cave and face yourself.
satby
You know, I hadn’t read much about Bloomberg other than here or in news, because up until now he’s been pretty irrelevant to my life. But the list of his philanthropic work is pretty impressive, and progressive. I want a regular Democrat to win the nomination, but two more diametrically opposite guys to run against each other would be hard to find. A real billionaire, with real charity work for climate, conservation, clean energy, and public health. Not a fan, but I don’t hate Bloomberg.
Still hoping one of either Biden, Warren, Buttigieg pulls an upset, or that the mean one does better. Would hate to have to vote for Vermont Trump, but would. Only as an absolute last choice. If forced.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
You really should not be listening to random voices on the internet.
germy
@zhena gogolia: They call Pete a socialist. They call Mike a communist.
Anyone to the left of Trump is Karl Marx, basically.
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia: Hahahhaha that commie billionaire! (groans)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I just listen to the voices in my head.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: Listen to Baud! Baud! 2020!
Cheryl Rofer
Immanentize
I will be much happier voting for Sanders or Bloomberg if I could be assured that they would follow the path of William Henry Harrison.
On another note, I have been thinking — who do I think will pick a better Vice President? I have no faith that Sanders won’t pick one of his flying monkeys, and I have no clue who Bloomberg might choose as he will have no allegiance to the Party. What do you guys and gals think?
satby
@zhena gogolia: well, he is Jewish after all //////
Secular, but for those kinds of bigots it’s like the one drop rule. I guess we should be happy he doesn’t need Soros to fund him.
mrmoshpotato
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Do they ever get into a brawl about the right lens to use?
germy
@Immanentize: I don’t know, but I assume it’d be a young VP.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Immanentize:
My guess is that it would be Nina Turner.
Immanentize
@zhena gogolia: Are you sure that commentator wasn’t referring to that guy Mike Dubinowski who plays chess in the park and lives in rent subsidized housing on East 2nd?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@mrmoshpotato: All the time.
Bill Arnold
@kindness:
Do you get any reading that they will pivot from attacking Democrats to attacking Trump and the rest of the national-level Republicans if Bernie wins the nomination, or would it mostly be about the impurities in the Democratic party platform and etc?
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
I like to see what the latest GRU talking points are.
Immanentize
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Could he get away with that? It’s my fear too! This is the one best arguments (to me) for an open convention (at least two ballots). Sanders would not be able to do that and get the necessary delegates.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize:
I think Bloomberg will probably make a smart pick. Sanders won’t.
chris
@Gin & Tonic: PCP? Primary Care Provider, right? Not angel dust I hope. My brain is going to trip over that one forever.
Jinchi
Yikes.
I don’t even wish that on Trump. (I’d prefer he spent the rest of a long life in prison.)
Kent
Why? He didn’t make his money on Wall Street. And none of Warren’s proposed Wall Street reforms would affect Bloomberg’s core businesses.
Are you just projecting, and assuming this to be the case because he is extremely rich? Or is this something you have heard him state?
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@wvng:
Sure – [discriminated-against group A] is the source of our political problems. Uh huh… [eye roll]
Some ally you are. Who else would you like us to cut loose?
satby
@?BillinGlendaleCA: and that would end up as a no way, no how for me. Or Tulsi, also no way, no how. Nope, nope NOPE.
I guess I need to light a candle for another serious but nonfatal cardiac episode. Don’t want the guy dead, just out.
Immanentize
@satby: I am sure Soros will be linked to Bloomberg soon enough (as in Annie Hall : “Jew have lunch with Soros?”)
germy
I didn’t know peacocks were republican. They sound like the ones who attend the rallies.
taumaturgo
@JR: The reality is hard to see, especially when it collides with our confirmation bias. Look at any polls and you’ll find Bernie is the most trusted candidate in a myriad of issues that are hurting a great majority of voters. Traditional labels of left and right, liberals, conservatives, socialist, fascist, and traditional side issues like identity politics and cultural issues are not as effective manipulating the voters as they use to be. Today’s voters are hungering to vote out Donald but also understand that the corruption rot that has consumed both parties is not working for them, and they clearly see and mistrust those candidates that continue to fund their campaigns by begging for money from the people and institutions that work against their best long term interests.
satby
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: how dare those people want to be treated like…. people.
joel hanes
@schrodingers_cat:
Why has Warren never taken on BS?
Eyes on the general election.
If Warren criticizes Sanders, and then she’s the nominee, his cultists will pout and stay home, or write in Sanders, or vote third party.
Jeffro
This field is way fractured and if the centrists don’t huddle up soon, we are all going to be stuck with St. Wilmer and his no-tax-records, no-health-records, non-coalition-building, “soshulist!!” campaign.
Biden = Jeb Bush, supposed front runner, totally uninspiring
Buttigieg = way too much Republican-lite for my taste, and way inexperienced
Steyer = oh please
Bloomberg = not much of a unifier, not much of a Dem, hard to justify his buying the nomination
Warren = has been my fave all along, but I think her candidacy is fatally damaged at this point. Plus we need all the Dem Senators we can get, and she wouldn’t be replaced by a Dem.
So oddly enough I will be pulling the lever for Klobuchar here in VA on Super Tuesday, while hoping and praying that the old men in this race can put aside their egos and get out (but please do keep writing those big checks, Mike and Tom!) and soon.
germy
@Kent: He made his fortune from Wall Street.
Jinchi
@Cheryl Rofer: Right. The guy who missed the first four states this cycle is asking “the laggards” to drop out.
Eolirin
@Kent: She was pushing for a wealth tax at the time. It was starting to get a pretty popular response too, even though it’s going to be hard to actually get. Now that Warren’s been pushed out of the spotlight no one’s really talking about taxes and addressing wealth (rather than income) inequality.
Interestingly enough as much as Sanders likes to rail on the millionaires and billionaires, having a plan to tax away their wealth isn’t all that central to his pitch.
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer: But he’s right.
germy
@Jeffro: That’s so strange. Warren has been your favorite, but you won’t vote for her.
Kristine
@schrodingers_cat:Why has Warren never taken on BS? Also KH should have gone after BS rather than BIden. He has been getting too much of a pass from the Ds.
Immanentize
@zhena gogolia: I would bet that Bloomberg will pick a woman. But probably not a POC. For a while, I thought it could be Deval, but he’s from Mass so that makes no sense. And Booker would make, basically, two NYers. Then I had a fever dream that it would be Fiorina as a unity choice. But Bloomberg is no dummy. He understands branding.
joel hanes
@taumaturgo:
the corruption rot that has consumed both parties
So both sides, eh?
Immanentize
@Jinchi: I don’t know, you go out having achieved the highest possible aspiration. But with a really bad virus…. Not a bad way to end an eight decade life.
Omnes Omnibus
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Thanks. i was sitting here trying to craft a response to that without too much swearing and, for some reason, it just wasn’t happening. If we can’t be in favor of human rights, what’s the fucking point?
satby
oh, right. Like dark money PACs for instance.
rp
@Cheryl Rofer: He’s 100% right.
schrodingers_cat
@joel hanes: They are going to do that anyway. Besides all the deference that other Ds are paying BS is a one way street. His minions have viciously gone after Pete, Kamala, EW and Biden. Oh and not just random people on Twitter but campaign surrogates and blueticks on Twitter who are his boosters.
joel hanes
@Jeffro:
St. Wilmer and his no-tax-records, no-health-records, non-coalition-building
To be scrupulously fair, Sen. Sanders in 2018 released ten years of his tax records, for 2009-2018.
I suspect that the 2008 returns would have shown something bad, and that’s why he had to dance around the issue for a couple years.
Felanius Kootea
@germy: I was thinking about that too. Imagine if everyone who liked Elizabeth Warren simply voted for her in the primaries and <gasp> changed the media narrative by giving her a win.
joel hanes
@schrodingers_cat:
They are going to do that anyway
There’s a difference between “some of them” and “more of them”.
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize:
I wouldn’t be surprised if he picked Harris.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: Only if he includes himself in that, which I don’t think is his intention
Cheryl Rofer
@rp: As I said to Jeffro…
Cameron
@Immanentize: I think Mayor Mike would pick either Mayor Pete or Beto.
Jeffro
@germy: not strange to my point of view…I need that centrist side consolidated, and I don’t think it’ll be around Warren, unfortunately.
schrodingers_cat
Appeasing BS in 2016 was a mistake and now its unconscionable. His surrogates have been pretty open about wanting to destroy the Democratic party. Read the Intercept or the Jacobin if you don’t believe me. Playing nice with BS is going to cost Ds.
glory b
I’ll note this: our victory in 2018 was funded in large measure by Bloomberg. Sanders spent a lot of time and money attacking other Dems.
Kent
@Eolirin: Actually you are wrong.
First, Sanders and Warren have essentially the same wealth tax proposal. https://berniesanders.com/issues/tax-extreme-wealth/
Second, Bloomberg is proposing similar tax increases on the wealthy as all the other candidates sans the wealth tax which no one thinks will ever pass anyway. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/01/michael-bloomberg-tax-plan-110105
Immanentize
@Kent: I actually thought that Bloomberg said something about the leftward tilt of the party. And he did start his preparations when Warren was on the upswing, although his announcement was as she was heading down.
I think, like Booker, Bloomberg identifies very heavily with the financial industries (short hand Wall Street) both because he was mayor of NY for three terms and that is the industry he protected and supported. He understands that industry. And, they have all his billions.
I don’t think, although inspecific, the idea that Bloomberg is running in part to protect “Wall Street” is all that odd a statement. If asked, he would probably agree.
Jeffro
@Cheryl Rofer: Could be. What is clear is that several of the centrists need to get out, and quickly.
Gvg
The bathroom issue lives on and scares many of our older democratic voters. It hasn’t mattered that Hillary and others have barely mentioned these things, there is some kind of underground scare rumoring that gets into a lot of people’s heads. Many people think the trans people are liars and perverts. Not just republicans either. I have been kind of shocked at the stories that get repeated back. Little events in local communities get blamed on the whole Democratic Party and attributed to its Presidential candidates. I don’t even think it’s a media bias or GOP strategy, it is because the trans people still are not really accepted or understood. That is why they get murdered so much. We have a lot of work to do to help, and it can’t be attached to a Presidential candidate yet. It needs to be just people right now, plus maybe some attorney generals who enforce laws evenly.
oh and Bloomberg is part of the problem and so are the people who listened to him.
RL
@wvng: Yeah, let’s abandon my trans child out of pragmatism. Eat shirt you fork.
satby
@Jeffro: every time someone calls Buttigieg a “Republican lite” it’s obvious you’ve never looked at his positions on issues. He’s much more progressive than Klobuchar (but yes, light on experience; though since it’s a position that relies heavily on advisors I don’t rate that deficit highly). And Klobuchar still polls well below Warren and usually Buttigieg. So your analysis makes no sense.
Another Scott
What changed? Easy, as LOLGOP said (repost):
If ex-Mayor Mike really cared about what Donnie was doing, he would have thrown a few billion around after the GOP convention in 2016 to prevent him from being elected. It was clear what he was like and what he would do given the chance…
I think he thinks that the field is weak and he can take the big chair easily. Maybe it’s out of a sense of duty, maybe it’s because he’s an egomaniac. Whatever it is, he’s wrong – we don’t have a weak field. We can and will win without him.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@glory b: Many white women this includes EW just don’t think that one who they think is one of their own (BS of Vt) is going to shiv them. Are they too trusting or is privilege blinding them. He helped torpedo HRC in 2016 and is going to do it again if he is not the nominee. You don’t have to my word judge him by his actions. His karma if you will.
AliceBlue
@Immanentize: Stacy Abrams has indicated an interest in the VP slot. I’m sure she would be on his short list.
Immanentize
@germy: Have you ever heard a peacock? They sound like a baby crying in the middle of the night while being slaughtered by zombies. But a gang war of peacocks? Couldn’t have happened to a more privileged bunch of jerks than those who live in Coconut Grove.
satby
@glory b: yep. The enemy of my enemy can be a powerful ally.
ByRookorbyCrook
Bloomberg is a threat to the viability of our democracy. He is not a republican. He is not a democrat. He is a plutocrat and closer to Barr’s dream of a Unitary Executive. Yes, he has donated a small percentage of his wealth to many worthy causes, but he is always after control. Stop and frisk was not a bad policy in his eyes. It was poorly marketed. When term limits would have potentially had him lose control of his initiatives, he merely bypassed them and ran for a third term. I feel a bit like Dr. Seuss with Bloomberg, “I do not like Mike in NYC, I would not like him in DC. I do not like his stop and frisk. I do not like his Bloomberg editorial nix. I do not like this Bloomberg for prez. I do not like it even one bit.”
I feel like a panicky crank, but Bloomberg is not a choice. He has shown himself in the past. Believe him. Trump did not make him question his stances, it made him think ‘why not me?’
Kent
And he is proposing the same Wall Street transactions tax as Warren. I’m not a Bloomberg fan. But I find no evidence for the conspiracy notion that his candidacy was some sort of plot or conspiracy to bring down Elizabeth Warren. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/18/bloombergs-new-plan-crack-down-wall-street-includes-financial-transactions-tax/
MattF
@Kent: I see Bloomberg as a Wall Streeter. And I don’t mean the ‘Wall Street’ that the clowns on CNBC go on about. I mean the financial industry in NYC that employs thousands of people in the NYC area.
It’s true that Bloomberg doesn’t run a bank or a brokerage house, but Wall Street runs on information about markets, and Bloomberg built and sold the primary physical conduits for market information. It was a smart play, he got lucky, and he became ridiculously wealthy. A Wall Street kind of guy.
laura
@taumaturgo: the corruption rot that has consumed both parties.
If you’re going to pedal That particular brand of bullshit claptrap, please to be showing your work. Both Sides Don’t.
One party is trying to undo the New Deal, police vagina, and give a pass to anti government goobers and pack the courts with unfit ideologs. The other party works their asses off to pass popular policies that are sitting on McConnell’s grave yard of a desk while.the rest of the world watches this shit go down in horror and amazement. So yeah, go fuck yerself.
Cheryl Rofer
@Jeffro: Old-man ego won’t allow it
Omnes Omnibus
@ByRookorbyCrook: Yes, choosing a “kinder, gentler” authoritarian is still choosing an authoritarian. *
*Broken glass, etc.
trollhattan
@Jinchi:
Ugh. Lauer to Todd, somehow NBC managed to go from worse to worserer. Lord knows, no girrrrl is available.
Sister Golden Bear
@Betty Cracker: Thanks, I was going to raise this myself. It’s also not the first time he’s made these sorts of derogatory comments about trans and LGB people.
Also, this hasn’t made the news beyond the queer press, but 226 bills are targeting LGBTQ Americans this year. One organization is behind a lot of them.
Immanentize
@AliceBlue: I don’t know about that. Abrams is well known in lefty circles, but not nationally outside of them. She never won State office. I like Abrams, but I don’t think Bloomberg is a Stacy Abrams kinda guy. Also, she too, although southern, is mostly ‘urban.’ IHe could choose Klobuchar as a reasonable choice to carry out his plans. Whoever it is, I am certain they will be extensively market tested.
germy
@Jeffro: You’re one of my favorite commenters, so I don’t say this to be mean, but… maybe you’re listening too much to professional political pundits.
satby
@Another Scott: don’t you think that, like everyone else, Bloomberg just assumed Hillary would win?
satby
@ByRookorbyCrook: oh settle down, he doesn’t even have a single delegate yet.
Elizabelle
@Jeffro: Ick. I think you should vote for Warren, but you be you.
ByRookorbyCrook
@satby: While supporting Toomey for Senate? I do not doubt he figured Sec Clinton was odds on favorite to carry the election, he worked in other ways to hamstring a potential Clinton presidency. Personal dislike for Trump is not rare enough to warrant being positive.
jimmiraybob
According to Bloomberg, he’s running to “Defeat Donal Trump.” This does not necessarily imply becoming president.
At this point i welcome his wealth to that end. Ultimately, if he somehow garners enough support to actually run against Trump then i will support him and hope for a younger, more progressive vice presidential choice*. The bottom line is whether we remain a pluralistic democracy/republic with some preservation of a liberal tradition and adherence to constitutionality and rule of law (you can’t bend the arc toward greater justice under Trumpism and 4 more years may scrap the arc all together). FWIW, I see the election as a moral, ethical and legal restoration and preservation event.
*My initial choice was K Harris, while I wouldn’t put her in the Bernie or Warren progressive mold, would make an excellent VP choice (as would Warren).
Immanentize
@zhena gogolia: That works for me!!!!
ETA and it would probably work for Bloomberg, too.
ByRookorbyCrook
@satby: And why should we want him to get a delegate? Why do we need to wait for our house to be on fire, instead of maybe containing the spark? What in Bloomberg’s history as an elected official makes you think he is a good candidate for the Democratic Party?
WaterGirl
@satby: People are so quick to dismiss Pete as Republican-lite (which one can see is not true if you spend any time looking at his positions) and take Biden down as not progressive enough…
that pretty soon the only viable candidates will be the people who are ACTUALLY NOT DEMOCRATS at all – Bernie and Bloomberg.
There’s so much short-sighted thinking going on the it simultaneously boggles my mind and make steam come out of my ears.
gwangung
@laura: Problem is
a) that LOTS of people think that. It’s lazy thinking, but it’s out there and needs to be dealt with, and
b) a related line of thought that I think has more truth to it is that both parties are devoted to traditional solutions, and what today needs are more radical solutions.
Immanentize
@Another Scott:
Egomaniacs always believe what they are doing is for the good of all — therefore their duty. I think even Trump at times believed this.
Immanentize
@Sister Golden Bear: I saw that. And, as they say, they are really targeting non-compliant (read loving) adults by targeting their kids. Awful.
rp
@ByRookorbyCrook: The house is already on fire.
Cheryl Rofer
The problem with Bloomberg’s urging the “marginal” candidates to drop out is that he’s saying it. It may be a good point, but when he says it, it translates to “Why don’t all you peons get out of my way.”
If he announces, after tonight’s debate, that he is getting out of the race but will continue to provide anti-Trump advertising, then it’s believable that he is serious about the strategy.
But not otherwise.
Geminid
I read an interview of Senator Bob Casey (D-PA) a couple months ago. He thought the presidential candidates were making a mistake flogging Medicare For All and cutting each other up over it. He won reelection in 2018, and found that defence of the Affordable Care Act (preexisting conditions, payment caps, etc.) was his best issue. And the House Communications team of Bustos (IL), Jeffries (NY), and Ciccilini (RI) made defence of the ACA one of the two main issues they advised candidates to pound that year. (“Trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy” was the other.) No coincidence the Democrats picked up 41 seats.
rp
@Cheryl Rofer: It’s a fair point, but I’m glad that someone is saying it.
Immanentize
@Elizabelle: I think in this case, after what he said, it should be
“You just be not you.”
Immanentize
@WaterGirl: I think you can probably see my steaming ears all the way from Chicago.
PS. Thanks for asking about the Immp this morning. I left a reply to DAW but meant to include you.
Soprano2
@taumaturgo: By the time Trump’s campaign and superPACs get done with Sanders, he’ll be the communist who hates America and American values and wants to turn it into Venezuela, and they’ll have tapes and videotapes of the candidate himself to use in the ads – they won’t have to make it up! The biggest problem with Sanders is that he’s never been subjected to a truly difficult campaign, where all the stuff in his background was thrown at him. The Trump people won’t hold back at all. Those trust numbers will go down once that stuff starts. He’ll be a drag on the down ticket races, and he’ll probably pick another one like himself for VP rather than a moderate. I think he’s a 40 state EC disaster for us. I’d be really happy to be proven wrong.
glory b
@schrodingers_cat: Yes! I’ve been reading Rachel Bitecofer’s twitter feed, I think I mentioned before that she’s one of the few analysts that correctly predicted the 2018 wins for Dems. She said appeasing the Sanders people was foolish, it weakened the party considerably and we got nothing from them in return, they savage the party at every turn.
She also said we should have known this, it’s almost the same thing that happened to the Repubs with Trump. The main difference is that they decided to embrace Trump, and a greater number of the Repub base is happy with him, they fell in line.
taumaturgo
@laura: Setting aside the insults, what’s your argument?
schrodingers_cat
@Cheryl Rofer: This I can agree with.
glory b
@Geminid: And if I’m not mistaken, the Justice Dems have targeted all of them for primary challenges.
Eolirin
@Kent: Warren was the only one actually talking about it. If what was on candidates websites actually mattered Hillary would’ve won in a landslide. You’ll note no one is talking about it anymore? There’s a reason why.
Elizabelle
@glory b: Excellent comment. Agreed.
Elizabelle
@Immanentize: LOL. Typing through fingers crossed for Immmp.
Want you two to have the most spectacular, worry-free cruise to the Mediterranean. You deserve it!
Denali
Bernie will not defeat Trump in the general election. Why do people not get this ? I support Elizabeth Warren, but fear that her support of taxes for the wealthy and M for all has lost her the backing of those in power. Follow the money. So easy to tar her with the fatal brush of socialism. I am afraid that Bloomberg will turn out to be Trump light, and forget much of what he has promised. I distrust those who think they can buy an election.
The Moar You Know
@wvng: No, it wasn’t. Not even close. The Brits, put nicely, don’t give a shit.
Labour lost because Jeremy Corbyn absolutely refused to allow the party to take a stand on Brexit (reason#1, and the main reason – the Remainers wanted someone who would fight for them, and he told them to go get fucked) and because people, personally, hate him because he’s really kind of an unlikable person (reason#2). That’s it, very simple.
WaterGirl
@Immanentize: Waiting is hard.
taumaturgo
@Soprano2: Remember that Donald was hit will all kinds of negative ads from both, the establishment Republicans and the centrist Democrats to no avail. So far Bernie has been shunned by the DNC who has after every other centrist candidate defeat, a new one is presented as an alternative. The headlines when he wins reads “Sanders crashes to first place, Biden skyrockets to fifth.” Over 50% of the voting-eligible doesn’t bother to show up, could it be that they instinctively understand that the party system is not working for them?
Eolirin
@The Moar You Know: Well, there was also the intense media bias, and they probably would’ve won, even with those weaknesses, if the reporting didn’t so heavily favor Tory framings, just like we have to contend with here.
Though Brexit probably wouldn’t have happened in the first place if the media wasn’t broken.
joel hanes
@taumaturgo:
what’s your argument?
Her argument, and mine, is that false equivalence is false.
Your first comment is composed mostly of unexamined false equivalence.
taumaturgo
@joel hanes: Is it a coincidence that a non-party member is carrying the day in the primaries? Is it a coincidence that voters are backing those who pledge not to accept pac or corporate donations? Centrism has been a losing proposition for both parties and the new political reality is found in a different direction than the traditional, don’t rock the boat path.
Immanentize
@WaterGirl:
Tom Petty agreed
rp
@The Moar You Know: Yep, and now we’re trying again with Corbyn 2.0. Hooray!
RIP Anglosphere
Eolirin
@taumaturgo: Most Americans don’t even understand how laws get made, what the actual division of powers are or how the executive branch functions. They don’t have the time, inclination, or access to follow this stuff in a way that lets them understand it. So their instinctive feelings about politics are mostly regurgitated propaganda. Because that’s all they get.
Pushing a propaganda line about both parties being broken and then when called out on it, falling back on the effectiveness of that propaganda on the American people as proof that the propaganda isn’t propaganda but instead reality is cute, but transparently bullshit.
Jinchi
People don’t get it because, like the rest of the field, he regularly beats Trump in head-to-head matchups.
glory b
@taumaturgo: The reason he’s the most trusted is because he’s always treated with kid gloves. He’s never had to go through a real fight for anything.
Lots of his voters present as whiny spoiled and entitled, knowing that they can burn down the system without having a real effect on their lives.
So, as they say in my neighborhood, miss me with that stuff.
Geminid
@glory b: Actually, I think this year Justice Democrats are picking on more estabished congress members like Joyce Beatty (OH), Yvette Clark and Elliot Engel (NY), and of course Henry Cuellar (TX). They did try to knock out Sharice Davids (KS) in 2018. Backed a white Bernie Bro, said they were past “identity politics.”
glory b
@taumaturgo: BS is a party member when it’s convenient. He is too lazy to put together an independent run, he’d rather trash the Dems while sucking up the party resources.
taumaturgo
@satby: Not all supports are the same, but I understand why some will like them to be.
https://readsludge.com/2020/02/10/fact-check-does-bernie-sanders-get-support-from-big-money-super-pacs/
spc123
@kindness: I think we need to vote brain both times for this election; there is too much at stake. Heart may get us an unelectable nominee. Warren is a bit better than Bernie, whose Comintern-light idiocy when he was younger was pure dissident cosplay given his fairly standard-issue social democratic policy positions. She still has some issues among the general electorate though (most of them are BS concerns with how she “comes across” and riddled with sexism, but this is where we are, unfortunately). Given the 15% threshold for delegates, some of the centrists have to give it up soon or we’ll be locked in with the most unelectable candidate given the EC math.
glory b
@Jinchi: Today’s numbers (don’t remember from which pollster, I was watching while getting ready for work), showed that Biden and Bloomberg do better, and only Biden is outside the margin of error.
taumaturgo
@glory b: The purity test in your assertion is outlandish. Bernie caucuses with the Democrats and as a senator has a better voting record than some other “pure” centrist DINOS.
joel hanes
@Geminid:
To be scrupfair, I think that Cuellar’s district is capable of electing a better Democrat than Cuellar.
That said: the win/loss record of Justice Democrats so far pretty much all loss.
taumaturgo
@glory b: “Don’t rock the boat, don’t rock the boat you entitled whinners, you’re spoiling MY entitlement.”
Sturgeonmouth
@satby:
Good for him, but It’s pretty easy to be philanthropic when you have $61 billion. For another look at how Bloomberg utilizes his money, read this from a guy who “worked against him, covered him as a journalist & worked with his top aides”.
FWIW, both my wife and I cast our WA primary ballots last week for Warren. No regrets.
taumaturgo
@Eolirin: If your assertion is that all politics is BS and all policy proposals are by default also BS, one them must conclude that among all the BS being flown about during the primaries, Bernie’s BS is the one resonating and sticking. Call it what you will he comes out as the most trusted candidate, the others also-ran BS is perhaps truly BS.
Another Scott
@satby: Maybe. But if so, just shift the timeline.
I didn’t see him at the Women’s March. AFAIK, he wasn’t maxing out donations to every Democrat running for office since Donnie took office. Or giving millions to Democratic Parties and Democratic PACs.
Etc.
It’s disconcerting to me that too many people are ignoring the mobilization that real people have undertaken to throw the bums out and elect decent representatives. We still have a lot of good candidates, I don’t see real voters being less engaged or less enraged now than they were in January 2017.
ex-Mayor Mike is not the solution to our problems. We need to support Democrats that we like and agree with, not look for an old rich guy. We’re smarter than this.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Eolirin
@taumaturgo: Sanders isn’t exactly carrying the day. Slight edges with three people clustered close to the top and sub 30% of the vote doesn’t win when you’re not in winner take all contests. Even a plurality going into the convention doesn’t necessarily win you the second ballot.
But Sanders is also the only candidate benefiting from Russian active measures. He’s the only one not being torn down by focused media attention. His candidacy could be ended in a couple of weeks by CNN running a nonstop parade of cardiologists talking about the dangers of improper rehab following a heart attack and the risks that running a Presidential campaign has to someone recovering from a heart attack. Like they did with the emails, except it wouldn’t even be entirely made up. That’s all it would take. He’d keep a core of his voters, the ones who won’t vote for anyone else, but they’re not enough. All everyone else would hear is that he could end up dying in the middle of fighting Trump, which probably isn’t likely, but it’s a scary enough thought. That’s not safe. That’s a reason to vote for someone else.
If it was Biden or Warren with the heart condition I’m pretty sure we’d be hearing about it. There’d be all this pressure for them to drop out even, no, especially, if they were the front runners. The media isn’t doing that to Sanders. They’re not even treating it as a story. He helps fit a media narrative that’s anti dem, and he’s not taken seriously, so they don’t hammer on his weakeness. Trump benefited from the same dynamic.
But that’s going to change if he’s the nominee.
Jinchi
I ran across this interview earlier today, where he describes his opinion of Warren. He clearly became motivated to return to the race when Biden started slipping and Warren started surging and gave her a sort of backhanded compliment: he thinks her policies are both “not possible” and “wrong” but also believes she wouldn’t be the first person to use this strategy to win a nomination, before changing course once elected.
The more interesting point is his description (at about 6:00 in) of people who ‘ran in the primary saying one thing, on completely different thing to win the general election and on a third set of policies when they are in office.’
He also slaps back at the idealism of Greta Thunberg about 15:00 in.
This doesn’t reassure me that Mike is sincere in his current proposals.
Or that his VP pick will be chosen with the Democratic electorate in mind.
Eolirin
@taumaturgo: No, my assertion is that you’re talking bullshit, and other people thinking that bullshit is real doesn’t make it less bullshit.
You’re making an argument for taking flat earthers seriously because there’s been an uptick in the number of people who believe the earth is flat.
The earth isn’t flat. Both parties aren’t the same.
Denali
@Jinchi,
Funny how all those polls had Hillary beating Trump in 2016. I don’t trust polls.
@The Moar You Know,
I understand the tax laws affecting EU members had a significant effect on the election. Agreed that Corbyn was a poor candidate. But wasn’t Johnson?
satby
@Another Scott: there’s still real Democrats in the race before we have to take carpetbaggers more seriously. But gaming out scenarios isn’t an endorsement.
Neither of the newly minted Democrats by convenience are working hard for the party, but one at least has a track record of supporting causes dear to our voters with more than mouth noises, and one has a record of bad mouthing the team he needs to reach his goals.
I dislike one more than the other one.
glory b
@taumaturgo: What might you figure my entitlement to be? Tell me where it is, so I can get it.
taumaturgo
@joel hanes: Are the leadership of R & D beholden to big donors, Wall Street, Banks, Oil and Gas, and Big Pharma? Is this a false equivalence? While I assert that both parties’ leadership is corrupt, only the R’s are shameless in their corruption and clear in their war against workers. The D’s are more underhanded and conflicted as they drift more and more away from policies that would benefit the working class and internalized R’s talking points that favor the donor class.
Heywood J.
What’s changed is that Warren and Bernie gained viability, and they would actually do something, which is completely unacceptable to Bloomie’s billionaire class.
Also, Epstein is dead, and thanks to Bill Barr’s corruption, takes all his secrets with him, including those pertaining to Mike Bloomberg.
Another Scott
@satby: Good points, and I think we’re on the same team.
Still, giving $5M to Stacy Abrams for voting has to be balanced with ~ $12M to Pat Toomey to win his Senate seat. And that’s just one example.
It’s really, really easy for bazillionaires to give pocket change away for good causes. It cuts their taxes, builds good-will, and feeds their egos. But that doesn’t change the fact that they do lots of bad things with their money, also too. And just having the money gives them outsized influence that is damaging.
Cheers,
Scott.
misterpuff
@germy: Shorter Peacock: “Fuck Your Feelings … In Living Color”
spc123
@The Moar You Know: and FPTP voting in the UK left Labour with about half of its held ridings voting yes on Brexit even with the aggregate party numbers nationally close to 70% against. Corbyn personally was a huge factor but facing reality with a Brexit-lite platform from the get-go to contrast Tory brinkmanship may have helped (but still probably not enough given’s Jezza’s negatives).
satby
@glory b: obvious Bernitalldowner is obvious.
Phaser set to “ignore”.
satby
@Another Scott: no real arguments from me. I have a long list before I feel like I’ll have to vote for the lesser of two evils.
We all just need to remember that sometimes that’s the only choices on the menu, and then it’s still incumbent on us to vote for that lesser evil if it prevents the greater evil.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
If your conversation during a presidential election is about where people pee, that’s not a winning formula for most people
spc123
@Denali: tax laws? For the ERG far right Tory brexiters, changes to EU laws on offshore holdings were certainly motivation. Most of it was down to Corbyn negatives and a bad scenario that left Labour defending way too many yes on Brexit ridings (even with national party support firmly against). Plus Brexit fatigue setting in (a kind of just kill me now attitude among some remainers). Unlike most of Europe, where proportional or at least some variant of ranked-choice voting is the norm, the UK has first past the post. It is somewhat similar to our EC problem, every riding became its own fiefdom – Tories only got 40-something percent of the total tally but cleaned up seats.
Lofgren
“The Centricrats!”
taumaturgo
@Eolirin: Both parties use to be quite different, and today there are minor differences, the ideologies are the same. The evidence is ample – unlike your flat earth analogy – that Wall Street, banks, big pharma, oil and gas pay for them to do their bidding against the best interest of the working voters and this along makes them similarly corrupt. If candidates for office go begging for money from the organizations and individuals who are openly opposed to policies aim at their constituencies, the record shows they will vote and enact policies that favor the donors. Democrat leadership doesn’t wish to move from the center because it would upset the gravy train they are on, thus they share the same open hostility to anything progressive that the donor class has.
spc123
@Jinchi: Yes, he’s arrogant and a bit of an a-hole. Good on some really important issues, mediocre to bad on a bit more. However, I do believe he would be far more committed to the rule of law than our current occupant (yeah, third-term shenanigans in NYC aside). He also would probably choose more conservative judges (more center right Ds) but still an improvement over Federalist Society picks. The center needs to consolidate soon to provide an option to Bernie, who can’t carry the EC. Would rather it be someone else than Mike, but will take anyone that can win.
Bill Arnold
@wvng:
I’m tempted to say fuck off, but really, this is mostly being driven by right wing “Christian” organizations operating without attracting much press scrutiny, e.g. Project Blitz (refed indirectly later in this thread). That is, narratives are being spun up by nasty (i say tools(/slaves) of evil) players, legislation is being written and pushed. They need to be called out.
zhena gogolia
@Soprano2:
You are not wrong.
zhena gogolia
DNFTFT
Bill Arnold
@ByRookorbyCrook:
He, and/or his media team, regularly attack Donald J. Trump.
I’d be uncomfortable with MB as president, but he would need to work with Congress and the courts, would almost certainly be a more competent executive branch head that DJT, and would appoint better judges and agency heads. If he sold his company then there wouldn’t be major conflicts of interest and he’d be essentially um-bribable.
zhena gogolia
@Eolirin:
Great comment. My thoughts (and fears) exactly.
MisterForkbeard
@satby: Right? “Democrats aren’t perusing EXACTLY the same policy preferences I want and think are best for workers, therefore both parties are corrupt and are totally the same”.
That’s… yep, that’s a disingenuous troll right there. Even if he’s sincere. Gotta love people that think “We’re pushing to expand the ACA, medicaid, and so forth because that’s actually possible and it has huge support” makes you evil, as opposed to “I’m pushing for a big improvement I can’t explain, can’t fund, and admit I can’t get passed”
Eolirin
@spc123: Again really need to hammer home that the media environment made it hard to begin with.
Labour had issues, but so did the Tories. That should’ve mattered more, and if the results had gone the other way we would be talking about how of course even the weakest candidate could’ve beaten Boris Johnson. But only one side’s weaknesses got amplified.
If the requirement for someone winning on the left is a once in a generation political talent like Obama we’ve got issues.
Geminid
@joel hanes: Yeah, Cuellar is pretty conservative for a democrat. But Jessica Cisneros will have a tough time beating him. He is very much entrenched. Both his brother and his sister hold important local elected positions. I think one of then is Laredo County Sherrif. In the old days they’d be pulling Cisneros and her campaign workers for bogus traffic violations. Nowadays they’ll work the levers of patronage. My understanding is that the Texas border region is a lot like Chicago used to be with respect to machine politics. Also, I believe that Speaker Pelosi will be attending a fundraiser for Cuellar. Supporting the conservative side of the big Democratic tent. Got no problem with that. Ultimately its up to the district’s voters anyway.
different-church-lady
@taumaturgo:
The place where this theory falls down is that Warren is not seen as a centrist, yet she’s fading away.
laura
@gwangung: Problem is
a) that LOTS of people think that.
No. The problem is that the media continues to repeat it so that it becomes the conventional wisdom. They aren’t thinking they are being conditioned to accept this as truth and failing to call it out every single time it happens is to concede to the idea that nothing can be done because “both sides.” Please see Driftglass on this as he has been calling this dangerous trope out for over a decade.
different-church-lady
@MisterForkbeard: It’s getting harder and harder to distinguish genuine trolls from people who merely suffer from lazy thinking and parroting stuff they’ve heard.
Raven Onthill
“What changed?”
Possibly Xi Jinping had a word or two to say about the matter. I was uncertain of the Bloomberg/China connection at first. But, no, it’s real. There may not be a specific quid pro quo, but Bloomberg clearly is a supporter of China.
Is every dictator on the planet trying to buy our President?
laura
@taumaturgo: Both sides don’t. I take exception to the casual comment offered by those who may not be concerned about the Leopard eating their face. I expect you to offer some proof to back up your ridiculous statement. You still haven’t. I have a potty mouth. Choke on a bag of both sides salted dicks.
Bill Arnold
@gwangung:
If we’re lucky, we stop the bleeding with a win by the Democratic party presidential nominee, and a retaking of the Senate. More radical solutions are necessary but are not politically probable in the now-to-November timeframe[1].
I think of it as a DJT win meaning a few hundred million more human dead due to global heating (crop failures, ocean productivity failures, etc), and a worse outcome for the biosphere.
[1] 2019-nCoV is damaging the Chinese economy; that might ripple significantly. One of several wildcards.
Eolirin
@taumaturgo: That’s impressive. Nothing you just said is true.
gwangung
@Bill Arnold: Personally, that’s what I think we can do.
But there’s an increasing restlessness in the population that is TIRED of established structures, because all they do is fuck up. You ignore that at your peril.
Geminid
@joel hanes: Yeah, Cuellar is pretty conservative for a democrat. But Jessica Cisneros will have a tough time beating him. He is very much entrenched. Both his brother and his sister hold important local elected positions. I think one of then is Laredo County Sherrif. In the old days they’d be pulling Cisneros and her campaign workers for bogus traffic violations. Nowadays they’ll work the levers of patronage. My understanding is that the Texas border region is a lot like Chicago used to be with respect to machine politics. Also, I believe that Speaker Pelosi will be attending a fundraiser for Cuellar. Supporting the conservative side of the big Democratic tent. Got no problem with that. Ultimately its up to the district’s voters anyway.
joel hanes
@taumaturgo:
Somehow the Democratic Party allowed Warren to be a Senator, build the CPFB, and make it (briefly) effective. Somehow the Democratic Party got the ACA done. Somehow, the Democratic Party (not the left) won forty House seats in the mid-terms and impeached Trump. The Democratic Party is not anti-abortion, anti-LBGT. The Democratic Party contains no politician who claims that climate change is a hoax. The Democratic Party opposes the stupid wall at the southern border, and Trump’s fascist white-supremacist policies.
One side is offering you more like Ginsburg, Sotomayor and Kagan. The other is giving you Alito and Roberts and Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.
Your claim is that there is no important difference between Republicans and Democrats — but it seems that your criticism and ire are focused on the Democrats, who, even if they are “neo-liberal”, are not outright fascists. The Republicans are outright fascists.
In short, you are ignoring the enemy who has a knife at your throat, and choosing instead to pick a fight with your only potential allies.
And now, adieu.
Bill Arnold
@taumaturgo:
With regard to House of Representatives elections, this is bullshit.
joel hanes
@Geminid:
Yes, I don’t expect Cisneros to win (although I gave her a little money very early on when it might make a difference).
I hope she can move Cuellar a fraction to the left.
Bill Arnold
@rp:
New Zealand and Canada are holdouts.
artem1s
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
my nightmare.
WaterGirl
Wise words from the Thin Black Duke a few weeks ago:
MisterForkbeard
@laura: On a side note, your crassness (oh noes!) had made me smile this morning:
Something about this is just hilarious.
@WaterGirl: Yes, but then where would I get to read the lovely (and frequently pithy) insults from our illustrious commentariat? :)
Lymie
@Jeffro: actually, Warren would be replaced by a Democrat because Massachusetts law requires a special election within 100 days, representative pressley is on deck. Vote your heart on Super Tuesday, saying her candidacy is fatally flawed is a self fulfilling statement.
joel hanes
@WaterGirl:
Yah, I’m done with this one.
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
How many billionaires don’t think they are the smartest and best people in any place they are?
I’m going with ZERO, a nice round digit that billionaires think of constantly.
joel hanes
@Bill Arnold:
Interesting that GB, the US, and Australia, the English-speaking nations whose politics have become critically diseased, are also the three nations in which Rupert Murdoch’s media organizations have been most influential.
I maintain that this is not a coincidence.
Ruckus
@mrmoshpotato:
Who do you think owns everything in Russia? Old communist, billionaires is who.
Bill Arnold
@Jinchi:
His first comment to the Greta clip and subsequent paraphrase was “that is probably true”. That’s not a slap. The comment about “the real world” is just about politics, which can be and is shaped by a proper level of urgency about global heating.
artem1s
If I had to guess what Bloomberg was going to do based on how a “smart” business man would do this, I’d guess he is going to drop out once he gets some delegates to make a deal with. He could simultaneously kneecap Sanders and prop up Joe or Amy or whomever he thinks has the best chance to win the general. Why on earth would he want the headache of being president at this point in his life. he doesn’t believe there is any honor in holding the office. he has more control and power running his own empire than he would ever have in the WH. He knows the president doesn’t have magical unlimited powers. And he doesn’t strike me as someone who needs or wants the pomp and circumstances. Temperamentally I think he’s more like Cheney than Trump. He doesn’t care about the title, he already has power and money. He cares that his interests will be represented. But mostly he wants Trump out because he is concerned Trump will ruin his businesses, the economy, and the country – and probably in that order. As soon as Bloomberg believes there is someone in the lead who can win the general, I think he throws his support there and focuses his money and energy on GOTV and funding people like Abrams. He may not even care if it’s Warren because he knows the next Dem president still has McConnell and an obstructionist Congress to deal with. And I think he knows Sanders can’t win the general and wants him out.
Bill Arnold
@Denali:
The polls shifted significantly in the last week or two. Might have had something to do with the Comey letter and the associated other (timing-wise) ratfucking. (That was a time when we were not well-served by polling averages.)
Jay
@Kent:
Bloomberg got his start on Wall Street with Saloman Brothers, (aka The Bank of Evil), becoming a General Partner.
He later started Bloomberb L.P, which is how he went from being a Millionaire , to being a Billionaire.
While Bloomberg Media, a division of Bloomberg L.P. is why he is in the public eye, it’s not how he makes his money.
He make his money through Bloomberg Terminals, a data Company that provides a closed loop, real time data feeds to Clients on the economy, stock market, and other indicators. Bloomberg Software sells analitical, investment and trading software that can linked into Bloomberg Terminals. Bloomberg Holdings invests and trades as well.
Those are his money makers, ( well that, and the lax tax regime in the US and Compound Interest).
Bloomberg is “the guy” who figured out that a net worked, closed Intranet, shared amongst all the “big investors”, would not only be a massively powerful tool for the big investors, but it would be a highly profitable monopoly, and perfectly legal.
Llelldorin
@taumaturgo: I think some examples would go a long way here. Without concrete examples, this’ll quickly turn into the Monty Python argument clinic sketch.
LeftCoastYankee
He’s feeding off the (in this case) contradictory fears of “must get rid of Trump” and “fear of change” in the Democrats, and trying use his money to bull through the process (feeding our stupid media narrative of “getting things done”).
Lasting work takes time and effort, and results in ownership (to use corporate-speak) that comes from doing the work. Hired guns won’t give this. He has no base or constituency for the long run.
I think he also sees the power that Trump has accumulated despite being an idiot, and imagines what a “real businessman” can do with that power.
He’s a lesser disaster.
J R in WV
@Kent:
Every cent Mike Bloomberg has was made on Wall Street — his invention was putting a quality stock ticker and economic news feed on customized PCs so that everyone could be current on the up ticks and down ticks of the various equities and investment vehicles Well Street workers manipulate. And charging everyone with a Bloomberg device $500/month for that information feed.
Every change Warren has talked about will affect Wall Street, and their willingness and ability to keep paying Mike Bloomberg millions of dollars a month in mostly sheer profits.
A tax on instant stock trades taking advantage of variations in pricing? Will affect Bloomberg’s wealth indirectly.
A 2% wealth tax — hits Bloomberg right in his kidney, er, ah, wallet. Directly.
Any other changes to Wall Street markets will also directly and indirectly affect Bloomberg’s cash flow and wealth. If you don’t think so, OK, you be you…
Bloomberg knows it will affect him, and that’s why he’s fighting Warren and Sanders directly.
ETA fix quite block, tune up a phrase
J R in WV
@Immanentize:
Some of us remember you saying you would be in suspense until Thursday, and we are all expecting the big update tomorrow afternoon. We are also united in pulling for a good report~!!!!
J R in WV
@taumaturgo:
All your BS is going to be about pastries from now on!!!
texasdoc
@taumaturgo: You keep saying this, but you don’t show the work. Which policies of the Democrats favor the donor class? You may be able to find an individual corrupt dem, but you can’t possibly argue that the party as a whole is corrupt. If you want to make the case that only limited individual donations should be allowed in political campaigns, that is a reasonable suggestion/goal, but that’s not where we are now. If you can provide proof that someone provided a quid for a quo, then lay it out. I am sick unto death of “bothsiderism” allowing people to throw up their hands and do nothing rather than do the hard work of pushing the better (by far) party towards better policies.
Chyron HR
@texasdoc:
Tamaturogo: “Hold my
beerGod Sends a Bird to Anoint St. Bernie as Messiah commemorative mug.”J R in WV
@Raven Onthill:
SATSQ: Yes, or to control otherwise, if money won’t do the job.
Melusine
@wvng: Nice trolling. Please take your transphobia elsewhere. ?