Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

Let there be snark.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Today’s gop: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Tide comes in. Tide goes out. You can’t explain that.

They were going to turn on one another at some point. It was inevitable.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

75% of people clapping liked the show!

Hey Washington Post, “Democracy Dies in Darkness” was supposed to be a warning, not a mission statement.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / American Voters Open Thread

American Voters Open Thread

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Snark from a Soviet immigrant:

If you wanna replace “America” with “Our failed American media”, well…

Reader Interactions

125Comments

  3. 3.

    Mnemosyne

    @eclare:

    You can hear some indignant squeaking in the background as Juno is being fed — that’s Lincoln, their big boy, upset that he’s not the one getting his TV moment. ?

  4. 4.

    John Revolta

    I dunno if this was pointed out in the last thread but in 2016, for whatever reason, Bernie did very well in caucus states and crappy in primaries. That year there were 20 caucus states, This year there are what, 5 or 6? I think we all need to wait a bit before we freak out.

  7. 7.

    Eljai

    @John Revolta: I agree.  Cable TV pundits love to predict the future.  But the truth is nobody knows what’s going to happen and only 3% of delegates have been awarded.  I’m not seeing evidence that Sanders is inevitable.

  9. 9.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    So Slava is saying America will freakout over Socialism

    HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCOOOOOOONADE!

    It’s not like America ever had any history of succumbing to Red Scares

  18. 18.

    Redshift

    @John Revolta: This year there are three Democratic caucus states – Iowa, Nevada, and Wyoming on April 4 (plus the island territories.) We are basically done with caucuses, hurrah!

    In 2016, fourteen states had caucuses.

  19. 19.

    Chyron HR

    @germy:

    Ha ha ha rich people amirite, but you can easily tell the difference because the ones from Arrested Development are obviously the punchlines to jokes.

  21. 21.

    Kirk Spencer

    So I keep noticing that in 2016 Sanders got a bit over 47% in Nevada and this year he got about 49%.

    In 2016 Sanders got about 49% of Iowa’s caucus, and this year he got a bit over 26%.

    In 2016 Sanders got about 60% of the New Hampshire Primary vote. This year? Just under 26%

    Nope, inevitable isn’t the right word.

  23. 23.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Eljai:

    Cable TV pundits love to predict the future. 

    I think “predict” is going to win strong(wo)man of the century.

  24. 24.

    Shalimar

    @Kirk Spencer: In 2016 there was one major competitor.  This time the non-Bernie vote will go at least 5 ways.  It isn’t over, but it could look very bad after Super Tuesday.

  26. 26.

    Brachiator

    @Kirk Spencer:

    So I keep noticing that in 2016 Sanders got a bit over 47% in Nevada and this year he got about 49%…

    Nope, inevitable isn’t the right word.

    Sanders is not inevitable, but here is why his Nevada win is significant: He broadened his base of support compared to 2016, and he is eating into voters who might otherwise be Trump voters.

    From Vox:

    Entrance polls showed Saturday evening that just over half of Latino voters in Nevada had backed him, roughly four times as many as supported former Vice President Joe Biden. The rest of the candidates earned less than 10 percent of Latino support.

    From NPR:

    Sanders won not only with voters under 30 and people who identify as very liberal, but also with men, women, Hispanics (overwhelmingly), voters 45 to 64 and people with and without college degrees, according to polls conducted as voters entered caucus sites. He also did well among black voters and moderates, finishing a close second to Joe Biden with both groups, which are supposed to be the former vice president’s base.

    In 2016, Trump did well with white people without college degrees. Peeling as many of these people as possible from Trump might help demolish the GOP in 2020.

    ETA: I will note again that Sanders is not and has never been my preferred candidate, but I see him doing well in the areas that he needs to in order to win the nomination and the presidency.

    But it is early. And primaries are not caucuses.

    But again, the key things to watch for: does Sanders continue to expand his base? Does he continue to do well with Latinos? Does he pick up more black voters? Does he continue to appeal to voters without college degrees?  Any post-election analysis that neglects these areas is not worth paying attention to.

    ETA: forgot about these.

    Links to Vox

    Links to NPR

  28. 28.

    Redshift

    @Eljai: It’s always good to remember that sides in punditry is hit-based, like movies or video games. It incentivizes making unlikely predictions, because everyone will remember the one time you went out on a limb and were right and forget the many times you were in the crowd who were wrong. If you make a sober, rational analysis and predict what most other people are predicting, no one will remember you regardless of the outcome.

  31. 31.

    Mnemosyne

    @schrodingers_cat:

    This is also my fear. Sanders supporters keep insisting that non-voters will come out of the woodwork to vote for Sanders so it’s okay if he gets nominated with the help of Republicans who would never, ever vote for him in the general election, but I am very skeptical that they will manage to pull this feat off. VERY skeptical.

  33. 33.

    Mike in Pasadena

    If the trends continue, perhaps a hundred thousand people will have “voted” in the Nevada caucus when all the precincts report.  That’s out of 1.5 million registered and active voters in Nevada.  So in a caucus “vote,” maybe 40 or 50 thousand people voted for Senator Sanders.  I think its a bit premature to shout “Yay! Bernie’s the one! The primaries are over!  Yay!”

    Get real.  A handful of people in Nevada, that wouldn’t make a small town in New York or California, showed up to caucus for Bernie.  Color me unimpressed.  Piffley Snort.  (PS: I don’t mean to rain on Senator Sanders’ parade, but get some perspective.)

  34. 34.

    Brachiator

    @schrodingers_cat:

    People in MAGA gear caucusing for BS are going to vote for the Orange One in the general.

    As I said, primaries are not caucuses. And we know that there is some MAGA BS in some states that allow open primaries.

    But the question still remains whether Sanders will continue to accrue Latino and black voter support, and whether he will continue to expand his base.

    Obviously, this is a challenge for Biden and Warren as well.  I would throw in Mayor Pete, but I have no idea why anyone sane is voting for him (yes, this also represents my bias).

    I have also noted before that I have no idea why the Democrats even allowed Sanders to run for the Democratic Party nomination.  But they did, and this is where we are now.

    He is a shitty candidate.  But many people, including a lot of Balloon Juice folk, practically took an oath saying that they would vote for the Democratic Party nominee no matter what. Warts and all.

     

    So this is where we are. People may as well vote their convictions now and let the chips fall where they may.

  37. 37.

    Mike in Pasadena

    Brachiator: “…and he is eating into voters who might otherwise be Trump voters.”

    So, you mean the ratfucker Republicans are “voting” for the person they perceive as the easiest for Trump to defeat.  Wow, that’s quite an accomplishment.

  39. 39.

    Redshift

    @Mnemosyne: “Urged to” isn’t evidence that it happened. From what I recall, there was no evidence “Operation Chaos” had any effect. Virginia has open primaries, so it regularly gets raised as a concern, but the fact is, it’s hard to get many people to actually participate in that kind of bank-shot activity.

    It’s certainly more if a risk in caucuses, because the numbers you’d need are lower, but it’s still hard.

  40. 40.

    Brachiator

    @Mike in Pasadena:

    So, you mean the ratfucker Republicans are “voting” for the person they perceive as the easiest for Trump to defeat. Wow, that’s quite an accomplishment.

    That’s not what I said, or believe at all, but you are free to take it that way.

  41. 41.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    I just had an unexpected RL plot twist: a friend of mine who is a Black conservative Republican (she’s from Texas, so it’s not her fault) is now saying that she would vote for Warren. She refused to vote for Obama, so this is kind of a big deal. ?

  43. 43.

    Brachiator

    Crap. Los Angeles County upgraded its voting system, with problems.  I hope they get things together in time for March 3 voting.

    Hundreds of Los Angeles County centers opened for early voting Saturday ahead of next month’s presidential primary election, giving voters a first glimpse of the $300-million overhaul of the county’s balloting system.

    Some hiccups were reported.

    About a quarter of the county’s 960 voting centers were slated to be open from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. starting Saturday. But some of them were unable to open on time because supplies or equipment needed to be set up had not yet arrived, said Michael Sanchez, deputy communications director for the county registrar’s office. At other centers, workers did not have the security codes or login information necessary to start the new touch-screen ballot-marking devices. And some places were dark even though they appeared on the county’s official list of early voting centers.

    The registrar’s office was still determining how many locations were affected by the problems but confirmed that at least 10 voting centers in Hollywood, West Hollywood, Silver Lake, Eagle Rock, Montecito Heights, Lincoln Heights, downtown L.A. and Pomona either opened late or not at all.

  44. 44.

    Another Scott

    To the half the nation that suddenly feels doomed: you've always been doomed

    The other half celebrates like they ain't doomed too. Heh

    Arbys— Nihilist Arby's (@nihilist_arbys) November 9, 2016

    Heh.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  45. 45.

    Mike in Pasadena

    @Brachiator: “I have also noted before that I have no idea why the Democrats even allowed Sanders to run for the Democratic Party nomination.”

    My uneducated guess is that they’d rather have him in the tent pissing out than outside pissing in.  In other words, if he runs third party, then Trump definitely wins.  I don’t know if that’s true, but I speculate that’s the reason a non-democrat is allowed to run in the Democratic primaries.

  48. 48.

    Mike in Pasadena

    @Brachiator: I did not vote today, but the mobile voting center at Alhambra’s Farmers’ Market was up and operating this morning.  It was manned by very dedicated, if harried, poll volunteers.

  49. 49.

    mrmoshpotato

    @germy: Yup.  I remember a tsunami years ago that churned up a bunch of deep sea life.  Freak-y.

    Damn you nightmarish anglerfish.

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    I just had an unexpected RL plot twist: a friend of mine who is a Black conservative Republican (she’s from Texas, so it’s not her fault) is now saying that she would vote for Warren. She refused to vote for Obama, so this is kind of a big deal.

    I wonder why the switch?

    I’m from Texas. My people are mostly from Texas. I have never met a black conservative Republican from Texas. Not sure that I would want to.

  53. 53.

    Sab

    @Mnemosyne: My RWNJ brother who has worked his whole life at pretty high levels of finance respects Warren. He ‘s in the top 1% and thinks the top .1% are crooks and sociopaths who need to be reined in. Never thought we would be near the same side on anything.

  54. 54.

    Mike in Pasadena

    Brachiator: Maybe you and other people here can help me understand something.  Why are people voting for an angry, shouty, old guy?  (Every time I’ve watched him, I have the urge to turn off the TV and get a glass of wine.)

    PS: I am old, but I try not to be an angry, shouty, old guy.  It ain’t a good look on anybody.  Bernie’s older than I am, much older.  What happens when the October surprise is the “Democrat’s” old guy nominee has another heart attack, one that kills him or turns him into a veg?  I’d like all the old guys (Biden, Bernie, & Bloomberg, you know BB&B) to go home and put their favorite eight-track tape in the player and take a load off their feet.

  55. 55.

    Brachiator

    @Mike in Pasadena:

    My uneducated guess is that they’d rather have him in the tent pissing out than outside pissing in. In other words, if he runs third party, then Trump definitely wins. I don’t know if that’s true, but I speculate that’s the reason a non-democrat is allowed to run in the Democratic primaries.

    Interesting take. Could be. Didn’t help the Democrats in 2016. I’m not sure that Sanders could have put together a credible third party run.

  56. 56.

    trollhattan

    @Brachiator:

    I’ll hand this to Warren, she’s proof you can hail from Oklahoma and not be Jim Inhofe. She’s actually quite adroit at framing issues by how brothers 1, 2 and 3 view them, and relating it back to her Norman roots.

  58. 58.

    Chris Johnson

    @Mnemosyne: Nice!

    I’m drifting more in the direction of ‘vote Blue even if it ends up Sanders’ because it seems to me that even if he went with Gabbard (which he HAS NOT DONE thank you troll contingent treating that as a given), it could still be possible to control him and have him rubber-stamping actual Dem proposals. Unlike Trump, Bernie’s base demands the actual progressive legislation we desperately need, and we KNOW he is not himself going to be writing it. Who will? I think I know somebody who has a plan and is positioning herself to be able to feed such an administration stuff they couldn’t deny, even if they were actively trying to sabotage everything (and ego kind of forbids that: what Bernie emotionally wants is just triumph without having to work or plan for it)

  59. 59.

    Brachiator

    @Mike in Pasadena:

    Brachiator: Maybe you and other people here can help me understand something.  Why are people voting for an angry, shouty, old guy?  (Every time I’ve watched him, I have the urge to turn off the TV and get a glass of wine.)

    As I have noted before, Sanders is not and has never been my guy, so I haven’t put a lot of thought to it.

    In California, I have seen that Sanders appeals to a lot of old lefties and the new generation of progressives who constantly dream of revolution and of completely overturning the system.

    And California has a lot of Independents. These are not people who are afraid to say that they are Republican, but people who have a chip on their shoulder about the existing political establishment.  And the majority of them tend to vote left depending on the candidate or issue.

    Some people I have conversed with on social media think that he is particularly honest and pure, compared to other politicians.  They may not even see the shouty bits.

    Also, a lot of older New Yorkers are shouty. It’s a thing. And Sanders is an old Brooklyn guy.

    Bernie’s older than I am, much older.  What happens when the October surprise is the “Democrat’s” old guy nominee has another heart attack, one that kills him or turns him into a veg?

    If this happens in November, the party still has some options. They could even turn to Hillary.

    I’d like all the old guys (Biden, Bernie, & Bloomberg, you know BB&B) to go home and put their favorite eight-track tape in the player and take a load off their feet.

    As I’ve noted, even Warren is not a spring chicken.  If any of these people are the nominee, for my money the VP had better be a young black woman.

     

  60. 60.

    Chris Johnson

    @Mike in Pasadena: If you listen to what he actually says, he’s describing a world in which someone like Mike Bloomberg could just randomly decide he should be President, as a Dem, because he knows what’s best for us all because he stole more money than anyone else.

    Bernie is deeply flawed, but his message has NEVER changed (except to go easier on millionaires, since he is one). He is righteously angry against the mess we are all in, and in this he speaks for many, many people. He’s not the best carrier of his own message, but it must be heard, and at least he’s really consistent with it. Listen for who he is angry AT. It’s not random. We get trolls insisting it’s content free, all the way back to 2016, but it’s not: he’s really specific about who he’s angry at.

  61. 61.

    Jinchi

    @Brachiator: Crap. Los Angeles County upgraded its voting system, with problems.

    I think the media just loves the “Democrats in disarray” story. For all the press, the elections so far have gone off just fine. Even Iowa. There haven’t been any surprise reversals of the count, we haven’t seen any evidence of lost ballots or hacked machinery or voters forced to wait in lines and having polls close before they can vote. They were complaining that Nevada hadn’t finished counting 4 hours after the voting finished.

  64. 64.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Brachiator: I have rarely ever seen him get shouty about republicans.   But he’s shouty all the time about Democrats.  He finds a way to control it when he wants to.

  65. 65.

    hitchhiker

    At dinner a few days ago, while keeping my mouth shut listening to old friends (these are 60-70 ish women) enthuse about Bernie, I was sad to realize that these people have been conned.

    Have chosen to be conned, I mean, in much the same way I suspect some Republicans chose to be conned by trump. He’s different from everybody else! He says things I agree with! He’s right about the Establishment! And above all, He’s winning!

    These women are all teachers who work with teenagers. They’re bright and big-hearted but not especially sophisticated. They like the feel of being out ahead of the wave they’re sure is coming. I have no idea what’s coming, but I’m pretty sure it’s not going to resemble what they have in mind, which is a wholesale revamping of the federal government.

  66. 66.

    Brachiator

    @Jinchi:

    RE: Crap. Los Angeles County upgraded its voting system, with problems.

    I think the media just loves the “Democrats in disarray” story.

    This ain’t about Democrats. It’s about the whole damn voting system.

    And in one of the past elections, I got mysteriously dropped from the rolls because of some stupid glitch and had to use a provisional ballot. And I had voted in the same place for decades.  So I have personal experience of being affected by a screw up.

    On the plus side, these issues have been discovered during early voting, and do not seem to be widespread, so hopefully they can be quickly resolved.

  67. 67.

    Raven Onthill

    If, somehow, Warren and Sanders could make some agreement and bring their supporters along, that coalition could win.

    @Mnemosyne: Warren is white, but she’s a familiar sort of white, church-going, “decent.” (I wince just writing that. But it matters.) She’s brilliant, and smart people respond to that.

  68. 68.

    PJ

    @Raven Onthill: Sanders would demand that Warren “bend the knee”, and I don’t think she’s the kind of person to do that.  I don’t think she would even endorse Bernie unless it came down to him and Bloomberg.

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    @Redshift:

    What worries me is that the Sanders people think that they won’t need Democratic voters because people who currently don’t vote will come out of the woodwork to vote for him. They really think that they will be able to make up the numbers they lose by alienating traditional Democratic voting blocks with those non-voters.

    I honestly think that they’re deluded about that, but they seem totally convinced that they’re right. ?‍♀️

  70. 70.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    Weirdly, that’s the plus side to getting the centers up and running prior to Election Day — they have slightly more than a week to get all of the bugs worked out before 3/3.

  71. 71.

    Jinchi

    The public flogging of intelligence officials continues.

    The US intelligence community’s top election security official appears to have overstated the intelligence community’s formal assessment of Russian interference in the 2020 election, omitting important nuance during a briefing with lawmakers earlier this month, three national security officials told CNN.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/23/politics/intelligence-briefer-russian-interference-trump-sanders/index.html

    I’m not sure why the media continues to give anonymity to officials who are stating the party line. They have no problem identifying the official who “erred” by suggesting Putin wants Trump to win his election.

  72. 72.

    Philbert

    My father taught US Citizenship in the Sixties, he would tell me of immigrants wondering why all the protests against such a wonderful country full of opportunities. Hopefully teenage said something positive like we argue about how to make it better.   Now, lately I was asked by a Indian lady here 10 years why we are NOT protesting.  Good question.  Winter weather or MAGA guns?

    Bernie: I wonder whether the Red Scare will work on anyone under 40?

    Here in WA we are a week after Super Tuesday, I’ll decide after. Was Harris, now Warren.

  73. 73.

    Raven Onthill

    @PJ: who can say? His House career was built on compromise; he might be flexible. (If he becomes President, his supporters will probably wonder why he is making so many deals.) On the other hand, he is 78, running out of time, and maybe he is losing his touch.

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    It mostly seems to be a very late switchover from the traditional Black Republicanism, plus some anti-abortion feeling (she is Roman Catholic also, too). She has become more culturally liberal as her kids got older (they’re all late teens or early 20s now), so that helped as well. But a lot of it seemed to be grudge-holding from when the Democrats were the segregationists and Klan members where she grew up.

    ETA: I think she also finds Warren’s explanation of her switch from Republican to Democrat to be compelling and relatable, and agrees with Warren that capitalism is a good system that needs to be reined in.

  75. 75.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    Weirdly, that’s the plus side to getting the centers up and running prior to Election Day — they have slightly more than a week to get all of the bugs worked out before 3/3.

    Yeah, but this is still kinda dumb. For weeks I’ve been listening to radio ads touting the new system, and an emphasis on the ability to start voting early.  I hate anything that might give people an excuse not to vote.

    I am also beginning to worry a bit that some people may not know that their traditional polling places may have been changed.

    I know that there were special mailers sent out about the new polling system, but on some streets near me, I saw that the mailers had sometimes been dumped in the trash.

    And this is also a preview of presidential election voting. I am hoping for a strong turnout for both the primary and the presidential election.

  76. 76.

    Geminid

    @Raven Onthill: You are right, Warren is “decent.” I give her high marks for honesty and responsibility. Sometimes it has hurt her, like when she laid out the cost and financing of her health care plan. When Sanders is asked about the cost of his plan, he’ll respond “nobody knows.” Which simply is not so. There are good expositions of the cost by people like economist Robert Pollin who support Medicare for All. Sanders’ approach may be shrewd politically, but to me it lacks honesty and speaks to his character.

  77. 77.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    It mostly seems to be a very late switchover from the traditional Black Republicanism, plus some anti-abortion feeling (she is Roman Catholic also, too). She has become more culturally liberal as her kids got older (they’re all late teens or early 20s now), so that helped as well. But a lot of it seemed to be grudge-holding from when the Democrats were the segregationists and Klan members where she grew up.

    I guess I can understand the Catholic thing.  Black Catholics in Texas are super rare.

    But most black Texans abandoned the GOP in the 50s, certainly by JFK’s era.  And in Texas, white racists were just as likely to be Republicans as Democrats, but the national Democratic Party leaned toward sanity.

    ETA: I think she also finds Warren’s explanation of her switch from Republican to Democrat to be compelling and relatable, and agrees with Warren that capitalism is a good system that needs to be reined in.

    This is an interesting evolution. Makes sense that she might like Warren.  But she couldn’t vote for Obama?

  78. 78.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    Marianne Williamson endorses Bernie Sanders for president at his Austin rally

    I wonder how much Putin put into Jane Sanders’s Swiss bank account. He’s doing everything he can to turn himself into a complete caricature.

    Next he’ll be campaigning with Jill Stein and Tulsi. You know it.

  79. 79.

    Raven Onthill

    @Brachiator: Sanders is an old secular Jew. To people who didn’t grow up in places with significant Jewish populations (I think that is mostly a few major cities), he must seem very strange.

    @hitchhiker: I recognize that nym. Zem? Is that you? Anyhow…

    Are you sure they’re wrong? Sanders is brave – anyone who willingly got themselves arrested by Richard J. Daley’s brutal police had courage – and steadfast – he has stuck to his ideals all the long years of conservative dominance of the Democratic Party.

    Now, that said, I worry about his age, and I worry about latent antisemitism and anti-socialism. But there are reasons to like and respect him.

  80. 80.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    I switched to permanent absentee/mail-in a few years ago when I was having all of my knee issues. I’m happy to know that I can drop my ballot off at the nearest public library and not have to rely on the postal service.

  81. 81.

    schrodingers_cat

    BS supporters are spreading conspiracy theories about the CIA and trending it on Twitter. Increasingly I can’t really tell the difference between BS supporters and MAGAs

    Also measuring the drapes and high fiving each other about how much better Jane Sanders is compared to Jackie O. Promising actual guillotines for “centrist” Ds.

    And no not random people on the internet but editors of Jacobin, campaign staff etc.

  82. 82.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Mnemosyne:

    What worries me is that the Sanders people think that they won’t need Democratic voters because people who currently don’t vote will come out of the woodwork to vote for him. 

    They will.  I mean who hasn’t been enticed to vote by the promise of a rainbow-farting unicorn butler?

    And we 65.8 million corporate shills can fuck off.

  85. 85.

    Brachiator

    @Mnemosyne:

    I switched to permanent absentee/mail-in a few years ago when I was having all of my knee issues. I’m happy to know that I can drop my ballot off at the nearest public library and not have to rely on the postal service.

    i considered switching, but there are elections where I am still pondering over ballot propositions or judges on election day. And often the polling places were very nearby.

    I think once some years ago, they were trying out an experimental voting system at a number of places. I voted at the downtown central LA library.  It was a seamless experience, using some kind of electronic ballot.

    But more than anything, I think that primary and presidential election day should be holidays.  I would even trade for one of the existing federal holidays.

  86. 86.

    Barb 2

    @John Revolta:

    The reason BS does well in caucus states is because BS is a cult leader and he has learned that a few of his followers can dominate the very low numbers attending their state caucus. In WA state the religious right took over the Republican party by taking over the caucuses.

    Adam Silverman gave the number of 4% of voters who went to the NV caucuses.

    I have watched trained agitators go in and take over a caucus. These guys are good. No one else noticed the two young males working together to manipulate the crowd using group dynamic techniques taught in grad school. I know because I helped develop some of the low skill methods (in grad school) used by Sanders bots in 2016. Never did I imagine that group dynamics methods being misused by dirty politicians like BS.

    In grad school we were trained to always tell our clients what we were doing and get their permission.

    There is no doubt in my mind that BS runs training camps for operatives who learn how to blend in with caucus goers. Two guys work together using techniques that can sway voters in caucuses. Cult leaders know how to dominate their followers. What BS is doing is not an accident. Trump does similar mind bending things with his followers. Mob Sociology 101.

    These methods were shaped in town hall meeting – originally by activists who were working on environmental issues back in the 90’s.

    Caucuses are bad news for democracy. We need mail in Ballot primaries!!!

  87. 87.

    Chyron HR

    @Chris Johnson:

    Listen for who he is angry AT. It’s not random. We get trolls insisting it’s content free, all the way back to 2016, but it’s not: he’s really specific about who he’s angry at.

    Yeah, the Democratic Party.

  88. 88.

    mrmoshpotato

    @schrodingers_cat: Jane Sanders being compared to Jackie O? When did Wilmer’s troll army get taken over by the flower power generation?

    (Anyone is free to come at me for something that’s obviously a joke.)

  90. 90.

    Bill Arnold

    @Jinchi:

    I’m not sure why the media continues to give anonymity to officials who are stating the party line. They have no problem identifying the official who “erred” by suggesting Putin wants Trump to win his election.

    Our new spokes-commissars of the intelligence agencies are being overtly deliberately misleading, or perhaps have crossed the line and lied outright. That’s not like them; they usually craft bland deliberately misleading statements that pretty much the entire press corps misreads/misinterprets as they intended.

  91. 91.

    Chris Johnson

    @Chyron HR: Suuuuure. It’s got NOTHING to do with money or rich people. Never has the word ‘millyunaiahs’ passed his lips sixty-five thousand times, oh no. Clearly it has always been about the Democratic Party.

    Sheesh. Slamming him for being a broken record is one thing and that’s fair, but whether back in 2016 or now, I don’t even know what to do about people who are ready to lie directly about what the dude incessantly bitches about. Are we on the same planet? Are you smelling burnt toast, are you and Koch okay? So you’re saying he’s fine with oligarchs unless they’re Democrats?

    Good thing I’m for Warren then. She really does hate oligarchs. Amazing how Bernie never says anything about that. (SARCASM AHEM AHEM for anyone who might think that is some confirmation of this strange would-be meme that Bernie doesn’t have much to say about billionaires)

  92. 92.

    Jeffro

    @mrmoshpotato: Oh great, thanks…should I call you at 3am when I fall out of my bed trying to swim away frantically in my nightmares?

    Nevermind, you did warn me/us.  Sigh.

  93. 93.

    Jeffro

    @Brachiator: If any of these people are the nominee, for my money the VP had better be a young black woman.

     

    Way too early, I know, but I think it’s almost a lock that Harris or Abrams will be someone’s VP choice.

  96. 96.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jeffro: Sorry, did you need the “Brace yourselves!” to be flashing? :)

    Go watch the slam dunking otter for a brain cleanser.

    Narrator: There is no cleanser.

  97. 97.

    Bill Arnold

    @Barb 2:

    I have watched trained agitators go in and take over a caucus. These guys are good. No one else noticed the two young males working together to manipulate the crowd using group dynamic techniques taught in grad school. I know because I helped develop some of the low skill methods (in grad school) used by Sanders bots in 2016.

    Can you share any references?
    I’ve only seen this once several decades ago[1]; it was overt though, pairs of (mostly male) spartacists trying to dominate breakout sessions at a meeting devoted to opposition of expansion of nuclear arsenals.
    (I snapped, nudged by a friend surname “Daemon”, and pulled a microphone cord (out of a jack) on someone hectoring an auditorium full of people; hey it was right at my feet; got a stern talking to from their group. :-)

    [1] ETA 80s, not 90s, BTW.

  98. 98.

    Mike in Pasadena

    @Brachiator: Thanks for the serious reply.  I’d rely on an older woman being slightly more likely to arrive intact in November than an older man whose already had one recent heart attack.  And by the way, the older man seems to have some anger issues that often to with strokes and heart attacks.  Senator Warren has some anger, too, but she seems more under control that Senator Sanders.  Again, my perceptions may be completely wrong.

  101. 101.

    germy

    "Sanders laid out the criteria for when he would use the armed forces."Threats against the American people, to be sure. Threats against our allies. I believe in NATO.""
    — Oliver Willis (@owillis) February 23, 2020

  104. 104.

    Starfish

    @hitchhiker: From the people who have been door-knocking for Warren, I hear that older women are especially opposed to her which is especially disheartening.

  107. 107.

    Another Scott

    I've got a plan to legalize marijuana, rebuild communities devastated by failed anti-marijuana policies, and ensure that those communities are equally able to participate in the budding cannabis industry. Here’s how we’ll do it. https://t.co/11E2gfCHel— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) February 23, 2020

    Good, good.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109.

    Juice Box

    @Starfish: My mom, who’s 83, thinks EW is “too angry”. She likes AK best, but not as much as she liked HRC. I don’t understand it. She hates Bernie. Me too.

  113. 113.

    Patricia Kayden

    This group's "deep state" fear is fever swamp nonsense. There's no "deep state" out to get Trump. There are, however, millions of career Feds who have sworn an oath to uphold the rule of law and defend the Constitution. And that, my friends, is a threat to a would-be dictator. /3— Walter Shaub (@waltshaub) February 24, 2020

  114. 114.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @hitchhiker:

    They like the feel of being out ahead of the wave they’re sure is coming.

    that’s well put, it expresses something I’ve been trying to put into words about what I suspect is part of Sanders’ appeal, the desire to feel like they’re doing something bold and unconventional

  115. 115.

    Barb 2

    @Bill Arnold: Wow that sounds very much like the video I watched. In fact the meeting was about a nuclear plant. You seem to have the skill to see two sneaky bastard’s working together.

    I would have to do some deep digging to find the research. Agitators can be trained to disrupt meetings and generally they work together. One would be in the middle of the group and the other near the back. They are never see together. The big clue at the caucus was that these two young males were carrying backpacks.

    The video I watched of the community meeting is that the two guys wore cloths similar to the rest of the community. But if you are aware of who your neighbors are and who local leaders are then these creeps will stand out.

    Psychological manipulation in a community meeting is being taught.

    People can be emotionally manipulated. The only way to deal with them is to expose them and/or turn off their microphone. Social manipulation doesn’t only happen on the internet.

  116. 116.

    Barb 2

    I found one of several articles about the manipulation of community by trained agitators or influencers. Interestingly the Rand Corp. Is behind this particular technique.

    https://proliberty.com/observer/20100198.htm

    using this search string – group dynamics, community meetings (adding agitators to another search I found this article. Microsoft has taken over some of the key words that have been used in the field of group dynamics research.

  118. 118.

    Another Scott

    @Barb 2: I’m reminded of a recording of a class I saw on eyewitnesses, etc.  Some prof was giving the lecture and suddenly there was a commotion in the stands where a guy snatched a purse from a student (who was yelling and quite distraught) and ran out.  The prof started asking people for a description.

    “Prof:  I saw he was wearing a green shirt.  What did you see?  Let’s try to build an accurate description before the police arrive.”

    And of course, just about everyone else who spoke up agreed he had a green shirt.  And after a bit they had a pretty detailed description.

    And then the prof called the “thief” back in and, of course, he didn’t have on a green shirt.

    :-/

    It was not really surprising, but was kind of scary to see how the group dynamics worked.  You know there were people there who knew that he didn’t have a green shirt but either figured it was all an act from the get-go or felt cowed not to speak up or just didn’t care.

    Another example is the DC Sniper event.  There were all kinds of reports in the news about being on the lookout for a “white van”, but whenever one heard actual eye-witness accounts there was rarely any mention of a “white van”.  (The snipers used an old Chevy sedan.)

    Once narratives get built up, they can be very hard to change.  And it’s very easy for false narratives to be built up, especially if people feel that it’s in their interest to do so…

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  119. 119.

    Cacti

    @schrodingers_cat: Warren supporters are in denial that their heroine is losing to the shouty old man with no plans.

    Unless Bernie completely face plants, which seems unlikely, given his cult following, I’m waiting for one of her many front page fans to explain what her path is to the nomination.

  120. 120.

    Another Scott

    @Cacti: I don’t see how St. Bernard gets to 1991.  If he does, then he’ll be the nominee.  If he doesn’t, then it will be someone else.

    Some of the commenters on this thread at BlueVirginia.US are saying that they will NEVER vote for Bernie. He’ll have to overcome opposition like that.

    It’s far from over.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  121. 121.

    JanieM

    Replying to @Another Scott  and various other comment(er)s:

    As a society we’d be better off if we threw out half the school curriculum and taught group process skills instead.

    Fat chance. And anyhow, where would we get enough teachers?

    ETA: Edited for clarity

  124. 124.

    AxelFoley

    Mike in Pasadena:

    @Brachiator: “I have also noted before that I have no idea why the Democrats even allowed Sanders to run for the Democratic Party nomination.”

    My uneducated guess is that they’d rather have him in the tent pissing out than outside pissing in. In other words, if he runs third party, then Trump definitely wins. I don’t know if that’s true, but I speculate that’s the reason a non-democrat is allowed to run in the Democratic primaries.

    Thing is, he’s on the inside pissing in.

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